Frasier Clip (Mel and Niles)

Mel's power of manipulation.
I do not own "Frasier".

[@dkupke]

The writing was so brilliant in this s end. On one hand, she is building Niles up, telling him how great he is and how he deserves this social position. But on the other, she’s not even letting him pick out the clothes he’s wearing. A subtle but insidious form of manipulation.

[@IllegalCharacters]

really not that subtle

[@markmed9091]

Wow , and to think all us dolts would have missed all those points if not for you listing them out for us in a KZbin posts …. Whew !

[@ImaLeshLushnIcantgetmyPhil]

@@markmed9091 🤣🤣🤣 Thank you 🙂

[@coreycox2345]

Its no wonder they didn't last, Daniel Ryan. And he's a psychiatrist.

[@withgoddess8029]

Reeeeeeaaaaaalllllllyyyyy?!

[@BreakFix]

She changed his mind and his clothes with such amazing tact in less than 3 minutes and he didn’t even pick up on it Damn she good!

[@avinashtyagi2]

She didn't actually change his mind, because he actually wanted to be Corkmaster himself, he just had suppressed his desire for the sake of his brother until Mel came along

[@silentbliss7666]

@@avinashtyagi2 in layman's term, that means 'change one's mind'

[@avinashtyagi2]

@@silentbliss7666 This show Is not for the layman

[@mw5549]

To be fair his tie is more suitable after she changed it

[@youmustcreateachanne]

If only she'd used her powers for good...

[@BenDover-uy5hz]

I just noticed something after watching this many many times. Mel is a habitual manipulator in multiple ways. In her career as a doctor, she specializes in cosmetic surgery on patients (to manipulate their appearance). She also manipulates people mentally in her personal life (like she does as the wife of Niles). Finally put those two together! What a troubled character and wonderful performance by Jane Adams.

[@canalesworks1247]

Great post. I always feel for actors who have to play toxic characters. Jane Adams was so easy to hate during her run, especially because Daphne by this point in the series is madly in love with Niles.

[@fleurelise997]

Mel is a great Lady Macbeth.

[@DerMelodist]

Fleur Elise She’s also a great Hera.

[@estabblushed07]

Spot on....literally...

[@fleurelise997]

@@estabblushed07 nice 😂😂😂

[@AnimeFanNo3]

Well, if Beebee was Lady Macbeth without the sincerity, Mel was Lady Macbeth without the empathy.~ ^_^

[@geoffreyforbes3098]

For people who's profession is centered on a presumed expertise in human behavior, Niles and Frasier frequently miss the obvious.

[@geoffreyforbes3098]

edit: whose

[@TheGryfonclaw]

That's the joke - it's a joke so overarching and meta and true to life that it's not funny.

[@hardwirecars]

never hear that doctors make the worst patients?

[@youmustcreateachanne]

One can only diagnose the mental & emotional when one is detached from the thoughts & emotions at issue. I don't even see it as a joke.

[@neonatalpenguin]

Physician, heal thyself.

[@dwightk.schrute6743]

His closest is bigger than my apartment.

[@Djeispark]

*OMG he had a 3 story apartment with like 9 rooms (one room is specifically for wrapping gifts lol), each closet is the size of a room like you said and secret passages behind bookcases! Plus his kitchen is huge and pristine. If this place ACTUALLY existed IRL I can't begin to fathom how much it costs!*

[@jonathenlester4044]

But the beat farm!

[@jaxl1931]

😆

[@MedalionDS9]

Mel being a plastic surgeon is the perfect metaphor to how she is as a person. She takes advantage of the rich, elite, and vain... cutting away pieces to make a supposedly better person but leaves them looking horribly disfigured in the pursuit of perfection.

[@wilakt4fud]

This is one of those scenes that illustrate what a great actress Jane Adams is. Compare her work as Mel vs. her work as Tanya on HBO's HUNG --the transformation is amazing.

[@CoolsBreeze]

I wish we would've gotten a tour of Niles apartment. His place is huge.

[@sonic8005]

Mel says "the last thing I wanna do is come between you and your brother" Which is technically true. In that she would gladly put Niles against his own brother to help her keep Niles for herself.

[@MrKaywyn]

Jane Adams is wonderful at playing such a two faced character.

[@GAZZATHEWELSHIE]

God this is an eye opener. Every member of my family has ended up marrying or being in a relationship with someone as manipulative as Mel

[@CoolsBreeze]

But did those women help those husband use their untapped potential?

[@CoolsBreeze]

In a way I do feel bad for both Mel and Donny. I mean they both got hurt deeply and lashed out in a very human way.

[@emaresea]

I feel sorry for Donny. He was a genuinely good person who was destroyed through no fault of his own and will likely never be the same. Mel was Maris 2.0, though, if Niles hadn't made her miserable she would have just made him or someone else miserable, so it's hard to feel sorry for her.

[@CoolsBreeze]

gw!z I saw Mel as controlling and somewhat as neurotic as Maris nut not as much, and she genuinely cared about Niles and thought that he was a great man with a lot of untapped potential that was waiting for the right person to help unlock it. Maris never saw Niles as nothing more than a doormat for her. She never cared about him and didn't want a husband just another obedient man servant. Mel had a lot of problems and was unlikable but she did have some better qualities compared to Maris. Like she would call Martin "Dad" when they were married or partake in many of the family activities.

[@ddjmfan]

Daphne let Niles be who he wanted to be, she wasn't controlling or demanding. She brought out the best in him, and he for her. Mel was very manipulative in so many ways, I'm really surprised Niles didn't realize it. She had him totally snowed. Donny handled things only slightly better than Mel did.

[@jamesedward3619]

Funny, I feel exactly the opposite. I feel like Mel brought out the best in Niles and pushed him to be the best he could possibly be. Daphne let him just be content with mediocrity, and she always puts him down and makes fun of him. Mel reminds me of my own wife actually. If it wasn't for her I would have just been content with my life of leisure and never would have become a doctor. If I'd been with someone like Daphne instead, I would have just stayed retired out of high school and been a douchebag. This scene shows it perfectly. Niles really did want to be cork master but he didn't even think of himself as worthy until Mel helped him see that he was. She was so much better for him than Daphne.

[@wesjanson6979]

@@jamesedward3619 you know what the problem is? after niles leaves mel for daphne he realizes that mel was basically running his life. accomplishments don't mean anything if they were all in the name of someone else instead of yourself, you're just allowing somebody else to live vicariously through you. this whole thing is actually a great example, niles being corkmaster after this episode almost never gets brought up again, in fact i think he eventually just leaves the club although i could be wrong. all that really happened was it caused a tremendous fight between niles and frasier and frasier felt betrayed all in the name of something niles didn't care about. mel didn't bring out the best in niles, she realized niles was her man and as long as he was she was going to make sure he ticked all the boxes she demanded that her man tick. being corkmaster wasnt as important to niles as it was to mel, because for mel what mattered was that the corkmaster was her husband. just listen to the venom in her tone when she sarcastically says "im glad my expensive bottle of wine will go to benefit your brother". it all goes back to eve being the one to tempt adam to eat the apple, women are constantly scheming and causing problems for men because they can't ever just calm the fuck down and be happy with what they have.

[@jamesedward3619]

@@wesjanson6979 Wow, that took a different turn at the end there, haha. Addressing the main points you made though, I totally see how you could interpret it that way. It's just definitely not the way I interpreted it, and I think my interpretation is equally as likely to be correct as the one you suggested. I guess we've both just had different experiences in life and relationships that are probably influencing which interpretation we take from it. I would like to issue a challenge though. Try to find a clip of Mel insulting Niles (either in public or in private) before he left her for Daphne. Then, go try to find clips of Daphne insulting Niles after they are married. I promise you that you won't find a single one of the first sort, but several of the second.

[@ddjmfan]

@@jamesedward3619 Daphne never insulted Niles!

[@jeremyweekes2126]

@@jamesedward3619, I definitely agree with you that a good wife will support & encourage her husband to go after the things he wants. But I think in Mel's & Niles case she's not doing it for Niles. She strikes me as a very vain & shallow person who thinks a person's worth is measured by their social status. Yes, she's encouraging Niles to go for the position in the wine club that he deep down wants, but she's doing it to bolster Niles's social status. On face value that seems like a nice thing, but she's not doing it for Niles, she's doing it for herself. She believes her partners social status is a reflection of her, & a reflection on her own social status. So she's really doing it for herself so she can improve her own social status in order to look good in front of her snobby friends. Just because someone may do a nice thing, it doesn't necessarily mean their motives for it weren't selfish.

[@davidberglund8879]

Great writers, great cast, great show!

[@CoolsBreeze]

I love this scene. We get insight into Mel. One the one hand she does believe that Niles could be an even greater man, but only if she's at the helm. She's loyal to him but in a manipulative way. Like a modern Lady MacBeth without the murderous tendency. Either way Jane Adams is such a great actress.

[@SailorCallie]

Mel is such a... Cruella De Vil don't you think.

[@wizard9403]

For a lot of men, I imagine Mel could make them very happy and successful.

[@stevedandy973]

Mel just wants to be "MISSES Corkmaster."

[@notsureiL]

Mel is the closest thing we come to Maris. Maris probably resemblances Mel in looks and behavior. Maris: a mix between Lilith, Mel and Lady (Niles cute whippet)

[@kittygranollers6232]

It's a shame they didn't find her sooner, other she could've played Maris. And maybe the story would have been diff, I guess even more fun. Coz I really looooved her character.

[@amehak1922]

They planned to never show her, its a running joke like on Cheers, they never showed Norm's wife.

[@jillburn8310]

Let's face it, we were all meant to dislike her weren't we.

[@aliciarodriguez5711]

It I so easy to dislike her. She is ugly inside and out. Really mean!

[@JanetStarChild]

If you can't sympathize for Mel, even just a little bit, then you lack empathy and I feel sorry for you.

[@ddjmfan]

JanetFunkYeah Don't feel sorry for me for not showing Mel any empathy. I didn't like her and never would.

[@SailorCallie]

Like Emily on Friends, Mel's a lousy choice to be wife No. 2.

[@modest_mind2526]

I felt sorry for her, much like Miles before Daphne actually noticed him.

[@greventlv]

I will still stick by the thought that Mel was just trying to unlock Niles' potential, toward the end of their relationship, she did become evil, because she didn't know how to deal with the emotions that Niles left her with... Most wouldn't anyway...

[@zworker3441]

same

[@MedalionDS9]

If you love someone, you love them for who they are... but she was building him up and steering him in directions to make herself look good, there's a difference.

[@cherylhulting1301]

@@MedalionDS9 Yes. It's a form of status seeking.

[@MalakianM2S]

What a nice Macbeth's homage. (Edited: The first time I posted, I said Hamlet).

[@edwarddejong8025]

methinks more like an homage to Macbeth

[@MalakianM2S]

@@edwarddejong8025 Absolutely, what a silly lapsus.

[@EmilioReyes_97]

@@MalakianM2S Well, your not alone

[@cazia9]

the woman playing mel is lovely but it's mel's personality that makes her feel so unattractive...and mel is just as dominating as maris was, but it's a different way...maris wanted to mould him into a perfect man-toy by making him always jump to her demands...mel plants seeds of mental doubt and makes him question himself, bending to her ideas and thinking he's in control of himself when she's really the puppet master behind it all

[@zworker3441]

yeah but there is other diferent , how you said . maris wanted to became him in a sumbmisive toy and mel wanted to became in a powerful men

[@MedalionDS9]

@@zworker3441 Powerful to others, but still under her paw because she is manipulating him to make herself look good.

[@1x4]

As I've gotten older, I feel bad for the character, Mel. Not the greatest human being, but she did care for Niles and believed he could be better(her version of better). She did inspire him to after what he wanted, but put aside for Fraiser.

[@cherylhulting1301]

But "her version of better" is exactly the problem. That IS Maris all over again. No one wants to be treated like a status trinket. She's not there to support Niles's vision of himself but her own.

[@frank234561]

Hyde Peirce is genius in this role. He embodies Niles like no other actor has ever embodied a character. Only actor who come close is Michael Richards from Seinfeld. Nobody could have embodied Kramer like he did. It's too bad he threw it all away.

[@lydoa81]

I agree but don’t forget Hyacinth Bucket!

[@lydoa81]

As well as Frasier :)

[@SPQRafc]

What did he do?

[@mnljh711986]

If they ever decided to show Maris they probably would've chose this actress to play her, I think she was meant for the role

[@jaxl1931]

What baffles me is that his character is a trained psychiatrist but he cannot see that she is manipulating him? 😆

[@kabirrubaiyat]

He’s also human.

[@LaKellita1]

There are none so blind ..

[@jamespetre]

I’ve always said with programmes that if I don’t like the setting I can’t like the programme. As we only see this room once, for dramatic effect at that, it’s a pity that we don’t see more of it with a pan or more movement of both characters using more of the room.

[@LeornianCyng]

Frasier is Shakespearean and one of the best stories ever written. This particular scene made me think of the relationship between Lady Macbeth and Macbeth. Though I do feel really sorry for Mel. I’ve watched Frasier many times from start to finish, however it’s only recently that I found myself disliking how the writers wrote her character. I agree she was unlikable at first but towards the end of series 7, she really was caring and began to open up a bit more. I also found myself disliking Niles and Daphne. In my opinion, a better storyline would have been over the course of the eighth series, Niles and Mel drifted apart after Mel deep down knew how close Daphne and Niles really were. They could have had Niles and Mel parting as friends.

[@p_roduct9211]

What other shows are there that are similar if you don't mind recommending? I don't busy myself with the trend of binge watching shows, but House of Cards (not sure if it is still on Netflix) has the similar Macbeth dynamic and solid acting.

[@Dane_Youssef]

When I first saw her, I thought that was supposed to be Maris.

[@jongilbertson2106]

I think Mel was supposed to be Marris. The writers may have thought they made a mistake in creating an invisible character (like Vera in Cheers) so they brought Marris to life in Mel. Then they decided it was better before, when Niles was crushing on Daphne, so they disposed of Mel, and finally paired up Niles with Daphne.

[@lindaleelaw5277]

Mel - Maris after feeding and walking ...

[@DerMelodist]

Lindalee Law The only difference between Mel and Maris was Mel’s body fat was double that of Maris’s.

[@arcadia5886]

I’m not sure if it was every pointed out but I wonder if the conversation of them marrying happened like this. Before Niles spent the weekend with Mel, Niles told Frasier he worried Mel will bring up moving in together which Niles was hesitant to do but after he returned, Niles said he and Mel starting talking how it made more sense to marry. It’s likely Mel manipulated Niles to marriage as she did in this scene for Niles to run for corkmaster.

[@Chief24914]

What’s funny is that Niles was the more brilliant one over Frasier but was more naive, more easily manipulated and less self aware. More book smart but less street smart. I feel that his inclination towards evil women was almost a coping mechanism to dealing with an older brother who outshone him in notoriety and recognition. They took advantage of him but gave him the appearance of having a successful, discerning partner which helped him compete with Frasier.

[@commiecrusader3064]

Me: that’s a closet?

[@jdax21]

Mel had issues, yes, namely her frequent passive-aggressive manipulation, but there were some moments when she genuinely seemed to care about Niles. One was when Daphne was giving her a massage and Mel said she hoped to help Niles see his full potential. Here, I felt she really meant it when she called him a sexy, dynamic man and encouraged him not to let anyone tell him otherwise. These were actually good pieces of advice. Also, while Daphne was pregnant, she did act demanding and controlling and condescending towards Niles. I know we were supposed to assume most of that was maternity hormones, but it was similar to the way Mel and Maris had often treated him.

[@tutuldok]

can't believe it's Bonnie, Wilson's second ex-wife in House MD!

[@sarahbridges8199]

There was some fine acting skills here. Mel's character was underrated and in some ways more fleshed out than Daphne. I know people hated Mel, but she was the injured one, the one betrayed. The way she reacted when Niles broke up with her was very much in character

[@stellaormes1844]

Niles married Mel after knowing her for only 6 months and it was done on the spur of the moment. It's unlikely it would have lasted anyway.

[@sarahbridges8199]

But it doesn't make it right though. I never liked the way Niles and Daphne came together. Sure, it was dramatic. But it wasn't fair to Mel and Donny and also didn't quite put Niles and Daphne in a good light.

[@alisondare7203]

I agree Niles didn't behave well towards her in the way him and Daphne came together but thar doesn't take away from the fact that she was really manipulative. Initially, when they break up he's prepared to do whatever he needs to do to make it right for her but she pushes and manipulates him to live such an impossible lie that he blurts it out in the end anyway. I think if there was one thing I took away from watching this relationship, it is that nothing is ever as straightforward as it seems and manipulative people aren't awful all the time or they would never have relationships.

[@aewtx]

But she was unlikable before they married. His friends and family didn't like her either, which is why they weren't enthusiastic when they married. Her manipulation was simmering just under the surface, subtle but there for everyone to see already. It wasn't that her pain made her manipulative, it was she just didn't let it show full force yet until then.

[@michaelphilpott8860]

Mel is good. She is really good.

[@GoGreen1977]

She got her jollies from manipulating Niles and even, I'm sure, in transforming her patients and gaining their gratitude and devotion. I never liked her character, but then we weren't supposed to. Niles was just another person she could dominate.

[@BessieBopOrBach]

These two had sexier chemistry than Niles and Daphne ever did. Prove me wrong! It's a bit sinister but search your feelings, you'll know it's true.

[@aewtx]

I never did buy Niles and Daphne's relationship. It looked very awkward. Jane Leeves looked very uncomfortable having to kiss DHP. Niles' relationship with Mel felt more genuine, but it was a toxic relationship, so we still rooted for the one with Daphne, especially given what he had gone through with toxic Maris.

[@raymondsolisjr.1262]

I always thought Mel was so beautiful

[@steeldriver1776]

The ultimate trap. A sexy woman who is just a tiny bit bossy, tiny bit manipulative and a hint of controlling is the ones we fall in love with, but then their sanity disappears.

[@Orion-yd4dy]

I always liked Mel, until Niles turned to Daphne and she became outright evil. But I can’t even blame her for that, the way she was dumped was just humiliating.

[@spookshow]

Well, he kinda DID marry her... but he broke up with her 3 days later so that's okay ^_^ She was a beast, wasn't she? *shudder*

[@gnock4706]

Mel was a massive hunt

[@murielbarker4311]

she should have known dont come between the Crane brothers you will lose

[@murielbarker4311]

i think both maris and mel wanted to put niles in a box and take him out when they wanted to daphne gave him wings to fly from that box knowing he would come back to her as niles wanted something that daphne gave him the other two did not a baby love this couple

[@PIXPromosMore]

I'll just say what most people have already said; the character was wicked, but the actress is cute

[@Mcoryr]

She’s a master manipulator

[@Lattamonsteri]

Behind every great corckmaster, there's a Mel. :D

[@andyharpist2938]

and behind her stands his wife

[@Souchi-ito]

Everyone hating on this lady but I kinda like her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@michaelphilpott8860]

I wish I could manipulate people like Mel

[@UryuOrihimelover4eva]

I think the reason why people didn't like Mel was because Niles had been in love with Daphne for so long before he and Mel got together. And you know that Niles was still in love with Daphne during this time as well.

[@sushmitamukherjee4025]

Lady Macbeth!

[@tammymartinez7488]

Mel seems worse than Maris! At least we never saw Maris and learning about her was funny. Mel was just super manipulative and scary! Niles was stuck on one type; when he changed types he was so much happier!

[@jerrybobteasdale]

The actress is an excellent flirter of men.

[@mangacomicvisionarygenius9612]

I can't blame Mel for trying to make her Man better and give him confidence to succeed. Behind every great man is a great woman.

[@jennifergersch9126]

However, if he’s not 100% the man you want before marriage, he isn’t going to be any more of a man after marriage.

[@cherylhulting1301]

She's not doing it for Niles. This is about Mel enhancing her own reputation. She doesn't actually care what Niles wants.

[@sabihaahmed5758]

I cant deny he looks better after she changed his clothes and of course he should be going for the role how did he never even think of it?

[@samf.s.7731]

He has, he always put Frasier first though.. Something he used to do ever since he was a child. And it seems like his mom observed this (Not just in the rats!!). Frasier was domineering, and Niles was more of a submissive follower. Yes, Niles is the smarter one, and arguably the more successful one as a psychiatrist, but when it comes to confidence, seems like Niles is leagues behind Frasier. That's why it had to be Frasier to convince him to go after Daphne, and to actually have the guts to divorce Maris (For real). Martin doesn't interfere with anything. He's very neutral..

[@srsgas1]

I've never been a fan of Mel. She always acted so emotionally unstable

[@MarcV_IndieGameDev]

2:30 little look at the camera lens ;)

[@jacobsandoval4789]

True 100% life

[@Be1smaht]

I want a Mel in my life

[@Loyal2law]

If only Mel could've been Maris.......

[@johnjohnson3709]

Is that an example of passive aggressive?

[@lpg8518]

I think Marris was probably a better wife LOL!! Though, to imagine that Marris was exactly like Mel, is to finally put a face on what Marris would have looked like. Awesome performance of a manipulative (powerful?) woman, though I wonder if Niles would have become much more successful had she allowed himself to be pushed by her :)

[@ZEZERBING]

for god sakes, how many times do I have to watch that damn pig commercial?

[@SonnyGoodwin]

Lady MacBeth

[@DDRUTOU]

Mel was just.....not attractive. My opinion. And this scene showed just how manipulative she really was. Even without Daphnie, she was not a good choice for a wife

[@LilyRose8959]

I think Mel gets a bad wrap she didn't really deserve. Niles did marry her while he was in love with Daphne. After it took him so long to get rid of Maris, I can't believe he did that just because Daphne was marrying Donnie. Face it, Mel got a pretty bad deal with almost no chance at becoming a likable or sympathetic character. If I got treated by a man the way Niles treated Mel, even though it was unintentional in the beginning, I'd be bitter and resentful too. She does try to help Niles here, and she's right. Niles was in the club longer, he wanted the post, but stepped aside to try to be a good brother to Frasier, who completely disregarded Niles' feelings about becoming "corkmaster." I don't see anything wrong with encouraging your partner to go for what they want, especially if they're being unfairly passed over, and in this situation, Niles was.

[@Crazygurl1211]

It's not that she encouraged him - she was so manipulative in the way she handled it. She could have just come out and told him he should be more assertive. Instead she was talking in circles around it and subtly saying things that she knew would trigger him.

[@emaresea]

There IS something wrong with starting a fight between brothers for no reason. Niles wasn't even resentful of Frasier's running for Corkmaster until Mel put those thoughts into his head. He must not have wanted it that much since he was perfectly happy to nominate Frasier originally. If she really cared about Niles she would have realized that blood is thicker than water and kept her mouth shut.

[@mariashutter4587]

I think everyone liked her though. She was a likeable antagonist character.

[@ddjmfan]

I didn't like, her never did.

[@PootieT548]

Yeah she really does get a bad rep, I liked her a lot more than daphne tbh

[@kathieprater2431]

She played him like a violin. Completely manipulative with complements and ego stroking sprinkled in for seasoning.

[@KittSpiken]

Trifflin

[@allisonthompson6241]

What episode Frasier Mel And Niles imitate each other ?

[@TheSaturnV]

I really hated/loved Mel. I wish she could have been in just a few more episodes.

[@nancymcmonarch]

Two things about this scene bug me. First of all, Mel in general. I get that the writers WANT us to dislike her, but she's so over the top obnoxious, how can Niles want anything to do with her? It defies reality. A psychiatrist, of all people, would run like the wind. Secondly, no POSSIBLE way would Niles not wear a tie clip!

[@aewtx]

Desperate people will put up with anything. Look how long he suffered with Maris. And I'd say Mel acted better towards Niles than Maris had. Maris treated him as a doormat and servant, while Mel did want Niles to achieve better things, even if it's only by her definitions and standards. And sometimes people who are too close to the problem don't see the problem. Take for instance, even if fictional, the gag used when Daphne began dating the guy who was Niles' twin. She didn't see it either until much later.

[@petercarlson811]

Holy batshit Mel is a keeper. Not only is she absolutely gorgeous but know how to get what she want while still being supremely feminine, well educated and is knowledgeble about men's clothing as well. I'd never let her go.

[@l.a.3479]

She's manipulative and selfish.

[@CzechMirco]

Enjoy.

[@Rokkiteer]

Now THAT'S a woman!

[@laurenchesshir9353]

I actually can’t fully hate Mel. She was obviously better than Maris, and she seemed to genuinely care for Niles. Although I always rooted for him and Daphne I felt kind of bad for her when Niles dumped her because I know she loved him.

[@freggo6604]

Brown tie with a blue coat... i don't think so :-)

[@meganobrien5967]

Mel is a terrible person..... but she is a master at manipulation

[@Chief24914]

Hot take but Mel did want the best for Niles. Her actions weren’t simply to instigate. Yes she wanted her man to be the cork master since it would benefit her, but she did make valid points. Instead of being manipulative, she should have told Niles straight up that he deserved it.

[@suebradford5758]

👍

[@BiohazardBunney]

I think Mel was given the shaft as a character. She was forced into being the villain once the writers decided Daphne would be with Niles, but she could have been a far more dynamic character. I always found Daphne to be too oblivious.

[@moodydude6790]

Yeah, I always found Daphne to be trapped in fairytale land as well as being probably the worst main character. I found even Roz more likable despite not even being a comical character.

[@jdh023]

I would choose Mel over Daphne. She is a Dr. with her own practice and has the same drive to better oneself and her man.

[@johnjohnson3709]

I’ve encountered women like this. They’re controlling and manipulative.

[@theEumenides]

What kind of self-respecting snob uses a simple four-in-hand knot?

[@stopiwantoff7965]

For an gay man in real life. He sho nuff get the ladies in his acting roles!😉

[@josephforest7605]

Look and see in the scenes with the ladies, he is not comfortable when they touch him, his acting could not hide it.

[@peterkent5153]

@@josephforest7605 Might be brilliant acting. His character is 'uncomfortable' being touched. (Likes it though).

[@ddjmfan]

I never saw any kind of uncomfortableness.

[@patriciabyrne5089]

@@josephforest7605 The idea that a gay man or woman hates been touched by a member of the opposite sex is rubbish. A good actor is a good actor regardless of their sexuality.

[@Jay-vr9ir]

@@patriciabyrne5089 Florence Henderson of The Brady Bunch , claimed Robert Reed was never comfortable , with scenes of physical affection , with Florence on The Brady Bunch .

[@nmillion9763]

I know Mel is meant to be the villain, but in this case she's being quite reasonable. It's true Niles has always had problems knowing his own worth as well as an inferiority complex regarding Frasier. Why shouldn't he be Corkmaster. I mean he ends up beating Frasier in the tasting later on so he's arguably more qualified.

[@tiffanylooper3523]

It's almost sad really. She really did love him I think. She wanted to see him live up to his potential. And I do feel sorry for her. I understood why she was getting vindictive about the breakup.

[@ddjmfan]

She wanted him to live up to her expectations of him, not his expectations of himself. Mel was being very manipulative of Niles here without him realizing it. Daphne helped Niles loosen up and allowed him to be who she knew he could be. Niles said as much in a later episode after Daphne confessed that she was jealous of a patient of his. She read the patients file which was wrong and could have cost Niles is his license. He admitted to her that their love was different because there are no expectations like he had with Maris or Mel. He was trying to be something he wasn't when he was with them, but with Daphne he could just be himself and loosen up a bit more. He just loved Daphne and she loved him, no strings attached.

[@tiffanylooper3523]

@@ddjmfan I dunno. If you listen to her when she was talking to Daphne that night, she says she wants him to feel safe enough with her to trust her. It seems like she did care for him. As for her vindictiveness if someone left you on your honeymoon for someone else you'd probably be a bit vindictive too.

[@cherylhulting1301]

Manipulating someone to fit your vision of who they are supposed to be is not love.

[@gl3110]

this scene is supposed to highlight her as a bad partner...but shes totally right. even though shes manipulating him she was right on this issue, Frasier was being selfish. there's nothing wrong with telling you boyfriend or girlfriend they should be more assertive.

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

There's nothing wrong with overtly suggesting your boyfriend or girlfriend be more assertive. That isn't really what's happening here. Mel wasn't that bad, though. She obviously cared about Niles. If she'd stuck around longer, she could have become a sympathetic character. In fact, she did, because how they handled Niles/Daphne was awful. In fact, she was generally much more likable than Daphne in general.

[@ddjmfan]

Cockoff Gewgle Yeah, that's why everyone disliked Mel and loved Daphne.

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

Nothing to do with Daphne being a main character and Mel being a fleeting character designed to be hated.

[@AnnaLVajda]

She was being a good partner here. She didn't want to hear him sniveling about being more worthy after the fact either.

[@sarahbridges8199]

Absolutely right. Sure she did it in a subtle, some would say underhanded way, but she did have his interests (and possible hers) at heart.

[@Bill_Oddie_Face_Mask]

I always preferred the relationship of Niles and Mel to Niles and Daphne. They had mutual interests and eccentricities, and Mel’s “manipulativeness” brought out the best in Niles and helped him grow as a person. Plus she (and Donny as well) was an interesting character I would have loved to see more of. If they had gone the Cheers and BBT routes and expanded the main cast to include Mel and Donny as regulars married to Niles and Daphne respectively, I think it would have opened up some interesting story possibilities. Plus it would be more realistic and relatable. I would have liked to see all four continue to grow as characters and as people, thanks to each other. Niles and Daphne were a typical “opposites attract” cliche that started off with Niles being a creepy stalker having lecherous thoughts about a strange woman while he was married, and ended up with him cheating on his wife to steal Daphne from the altar and destroying two good marriages. I hated it.

[@samf.s.7731]

Yeah, that's technically what happened. Writers doing a sitcom in the 90s 😑🙄 But I really liked Melinda, I liked Jane Adams mostly (Thought she was brilliant). The show didn't make sense on that season. 😂 Daphne fell in love with Niles during the course of one, well it's less than one, season. Niles got divorced and married AGAIN.. No one stepped in but Frasier, and both he and Martin should have done it sooner knowing how Niles feels about Daphne. Etc. But again, a case of 90s sitcom writing. The show was exceptionally better written than most shows on TV at that time, and deserved every Emmy it got. GoT had 5 good seasons of writing, the fact that it got showered with Emmys during that final season made no sense and frankly angered some people 😅

[@mattermax]

Mel added class to this show.i love her.

[@EmilioReyes_97]

And dont think Hamlits wife was as manipulative.

[@youmustcreateachanne]

Macbeth's? Hamlet wasn't married.

[@cherylhulting1301]

This is not an homage to "Hamlet." The scene references "Macbeth." And you can bet Lady Macbeth was just as manipulative as Mel is here.

[@elizabethflynn8455]

Expert pot stirrer🙄

[@darth856]

She may have some fair points, but the deceptive manner in which she raises them is disturbing

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

While she's very manipulative, I actually rather like the character of Mel.

[@danielrollins4315]

Women are the backbone of all achievements of man. It's great to have a real woman in your corner.

[@BlueLeopard200]

Mel was a bit of a stirrer.

[@steveg8322]

Fuse lighter,manipulator

[@nicklh186]

Did she pull a Lady Macbeth here?

[@CoolsBreeze]

Definitely. But Lady Macbeth was more outspoken of her intentions, Mel is much more subtle and tactful.

[@cherylhulting1301]

Oh yeah. Big time. At least she's not setting Niles up to kill Frasier. 😁