Free Jazz and Atonality Explained

[@einsteinalexander7187]

This piano guy provided the best explaination of free jazz on Internet.

[@moonpathrecords6151]

in many/most cases the freedom was not the endgame, rather a springboard from which to discover new forms. it certainly began with freedom, liberation, and rejection of traditional forms but that was so closely connected with what was happening in culture especially the civil rights movement it does everyone an injustice to just simply say the point is freedom. and as the free music evolved, the point became less and less about just unbridled chaos which is what the word freedom unfortunately implies to most people. if you take notice of the ongoing works of some of the more prolific free jazz proponents such as cecil taylor, coleman, braxton, abrams, mitchell, even more chaos oriented guys like ayler & brotzmann, their musics were wild and unruly but the freedom was just a search for new STRUCTURE and their musics all became more structured as time moved forward. i feel this is an important distinction to make when discussing free music, which in all honesty is still in its infancy, like all music!

[@stacibroughton3723]

Very good, thank you.

[@Phicxtion]

Nothing more free that free jazz. Pure expression.

[@michaeldarling3422]

It's also important to note that Schoenberg didn't want him or his students to follow the 12 tone mode of atonality religiously, but as a sort of framework to which personal expression could be achieved through following or not following the principles.

[@drewreil9923]

Exactly he was too good a teacher/instructor to want anyone to follow

[@benjaminsmith2287]

I don't know. I listen to Ornette Coleman, something like Kathelin Gray, and I hear a lot of sequences, tonal arrivals, outlines of major chords, and 4 or 5 notes of major scales and blues inflections. And there are definitely what sound like leading tones in the melody going to resolutions. What you say isn't wrong in some applications but free jazz can be highly structured and you are free to use aspects of tonality if you choose. It's freedom to choose musical elements, not necessarily reject them all. It's freedom from the conventions of jazz that came before it, but some new conventions were formed. In atonal music you don't necessarily play chord progressions, but a system of building up tension and resolution can still be handled in other ways and gives a similar impression. And some atonal music can use bitonality at times, chord progressions at times, and be atonal or highly chromatic at other times in an improv or musical composition.

[@chrisegonmusic]

I think that's the fine difference between playing structure and playing random notes. That's probably where Free Jazz lies.

[@stacibroughton3723]

This is nothing!! You are dealing in Folk Music which you may be Pantonal

[@Hiphopdabop]

My impression that I get from this explanation is that there are many ways to approach music, NOT this or that

[@jazzpsychic]

This is the BEST explanation that I've heard or read. Great job brother. Although there's one thing you left out; to play free, you've got to free your mind!

[@souviksen7497]

This is the best explanation of atonality I've seen on KZbin. Thanks so much!

[@TsushimaMasaki]

I love your videos, they are so illuminating even to a non-musician. As a big jazz listener free jazz is a style I've always kind of shied away from, but with this new understanding I'm encouraged to dip my toes into it again.

[@WalkThatBass]

Good luck! As I said in my video, Free Jazz is not easy. Much of it is rather average and self-indulgent. But some of it is quite heartfelt and genuine and beautiful. And the avant-garde was quite influential on Contemporary Jazz and the direction Jazz took after 1960 (I'll try make a few videos on this in the future). Try listen to early Ornette Coleman ('The Shape of Jazz to Come' and 'Change of the Century') and early Cecil Taylor (Looking Ahead!). Stay away from collective improvisation to begin with...unless you're slightly masochistic...

[@sakketin]

@@WalkThatBass Free Jazz by Ornette and Ascension by Coltrane are reletively easy to listen to in my opinion.

[@holidaytrout5174]

Listen to Sonny Sharrock's Ask the Ages

[@neocolors]

@@WalkThatBass that totally depends on what your listening habits are. I grew up with Miles Davis' music my Dad played all the time. As a teen I was listening to Britpop and Punk, getting more and more drawn to experimental and electronic music. Then I tried to listen to Jazz more but I couldn't stand all the cheesy stuff, the old fashioned vibes even in modern jazz. Then I found Coltrane (Live in Seattle, Om), Art Ensemble of Chicago and so on. It was so great and creative and fresh, even decades later, just energy and communication, being in the moment.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

@@WalkThatBass pñpñp P

[@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046]

I never thought of my compositional style as “free jazz,” but you have convinced me it’s a fact. Though I come with some classical training, discovering Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Hindemith, Menotti, and Zappa nudged me away from the tradition. I actually worked often enough as a jazz bassist - once even with my former theory/comp prof on piano - and never really worried about where it would take me! To me, “free” means simply that I get to choose every sound, every element, the structure, form, etc., etc., so any tonality, themes, etc., are there because I chose them - not because of some alleged rules in Bach chorales.

[@tylers9006]

Yes I completely feel this! I also felt like I do free jazz. I love soundmass composers like Xenakis and Penderecki. I often find myself improvising these dense clusters on the piano. Maybe I am a free jazzer when I do this…

[@einsteinalexander7187]

Best of the best of the best jazz course ever!

[@aadityakiran_s]

Pretty good. Your videos are useful for more than just pianists. People who just wanna know what all these things are can learn from your videos. Thanks. Keep up the good work.

[@seanriddle6408]

A good video, but I think there are somethings you missed that would have been helpful. Eric Dolphy and especially Cecil Taylor were very influenced by "20th century Classical Music/New Music" composers and it did influence there approach to composition and improvisation. Dolphy had experience playing new chamber music, such as playing Edgar Varese's flute solo "Density 21.5" at the Ojai Music Festival, and Taylor's musical background is more rooted in "New Music" than say "Jazz". The musicians of the AACM are also deeply influenced by New Music. A lot of the music that came out of that collective seems to be a meeting ground for ideas from the 60s Free Jazz movement and New Music. Henry Threadgill came up with an approach to improvisation for his band Zooid that is somewhat similar to Serialism, focusing on improvising over pitch cells to abandon the major/minor system. With Ornette, I really think the tonal centre's are more because of Charlie Haden than Ornette. If you listen to the recordings Haden is on with Ornette (but pretty much any Haden record) he really grounded the ensemble through pedal tones, especially with octaves. It was essentially Haden's approach to playing with Ornette, creating spontaneous harmonies to Ornette's melodies. Ornette seems to have rarely specified pedal tones or root motions. Haden said the whole time he would be following where Ornette would be heading to. The other bassists from the 60s era, Jimmy Garrison, Scott LaFaro, and David Izenzon all approached it differently. Garrison seemed to be more groove oriented. LaFaro was building on his contrapuntal approach. Izenzon brought his background in Classical and New Music to Ornette and was focused on sound and texture (surprisingly Ornette started writing some chamber pieces after he met Izenzon). Otherwise, this is a nice introductory video for people who are not too familiar with this music!

[@williamwinslow6582]

This presentation suffers from the premise that jazz musicians who developed what is called free jazz proceeded by negation and rejection rather than expansion. It is fair to note that in expanding the language or rendering aspects of form and structure more subtle these musicians were able, at times, to dispense with or diminish certain elements of jazz music which some may have considered essential. But all of the elements of free jazz are found in jazz music generally. What's more, practices developed by champions of the "new thing" are now elements of standard practice for more traditional players.

[@puipui7382]

One major gripe is the notion that music and sound/noise are not one. The sounds of nature or even industrial machinery can be just as valid. Even total silence is musical.

[@graxjpg]

pui pui a discussion of the nature of music would be needed to explain why you are right. La monte young would listen to the power transformer on his parents farm for hours..

[@gustavodiaz1570]

Excellent Video clip! Sorry for butting in, I would love your opinion. Have you tried - Riddleagan Smart Hands Remedy (should be on google have a look)? It is a smashing one off guide for learning piano fast minus the headache. Ive heard some incredible things about it and my friend finally got great results with it.

[@ivanmanjarres7896]

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[@luckymeoy]

Exactly. A musician may say that a bird is singing, then go to the studio and insist that music must have structure. That bird's got structure.

[@growskull]

einsturzende neubaten

[@ThankyouJword]

Free jazz can only be defined as undefined and is the most slept on genre of all time extraction of the negative for the will of the positive

[@luckymeoy]

Finally an explanation to jazz. Thank you!

[@marshwitch9610]

Gimme jazz, modern art, and coffee! "I hear the old songs, and I remember the old me, and sometimes I just miss you, my beautiful 20th century."

[@DeiNostri]

The swedish Pippi Longstockingmovies from the sixties actually have some freejazz in them every now and then when weird things happen. There is also conversational parts in old Snoopy cartoons where you find free jazz elements and there is also some free jazz in horror movies like Rosemarys Baby. It is interesting that some types of music is appearing pretty much everywhere while most people really don´t know what type of genre it is, and pretty much don´t care looking for it, its just some sound or atmospheric thing. Commercial breaks with short stints of free jazz from Ornette Coleman, horror and sci fi movies with drones and odd rythms from Brian Williams/Lustmord or some noise from Merzbow from digital a billboard in Japan. Music is a broader term than most people like to think and the most hard to grasp expressions have their place. Ikea furniture can be quite dadaistic. The 60ies designer egg-chair is a fine example of an unusual concept that works excellent in the right setting.

[@dwodo21]

I really liked this. Great explanation. People interested in this topic may also want to check out a book I read years ago that is still in print, “Free Jazz”, by Ekkehard Jost.

[@vcharrison63]

Excellent explanation. I got a lot out of this.

[@samusbros66]

I have learned A LOT with this video, you are very good teacher

[@kawkabbarralimara8237]

I love free jazz. Also this channel.

[@danielrees5208]

Fantastic video. Thank you. I feel I've learnt loads from this.

[@jamesburmester8861]

noise. It's like the word weed. Useful herbs for some, for others the stuff that takes over their suburb home lawn

[@kpvdnber]

I always felt a great affection for jazz (modal jazz in particular I now understand). These videos made me understand jazz like no one ever did for me. And I studied pipe organ. Pretty telling. Thank you for these great videos, you really deserve way more followers!

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks, Jan. You're too kind. It's a niche subject but a worthwhile one.

[@takito1925]

If you want to start listening free jazz here you have some great albums -Karma (Pharoah Sanders) -Expressions (John Coltrane) -Ask the Ages (Sonny Sharrock) -Organic Music Society (Don cherry) -Kulu se Mama(John Coltrane) I think theese are some easy (It's free jazz so don't expect something as easy as other genres) albums to begin with

[@2krandolph]

THANK you for this. All of the artists mentioned here are heavy hitters. Free jazz is deep stuff and many people find it difficult to get to, but his video is very helpful for anyone who wants to take a deeper dive into it. I'm reading a book on Ornette Coleman right now. A friend recently introduced me to some Japanese free jazz artists, too. Check out Kaoru Abe!

[@cowzah8551]

Great video and explanation..specially appreciate your effort to distinguish free jazz from directionless playing that it can conveniently and ignorantly labelled as. The point about energy being one of the drivers of free jazz is so true. Thank you.

[@earinsound]

yes, a theoretical explanation, which is great, but i'd recommend interested parties to investigate the source of the FIRE behind free jazz

[@federico7748]

cool as always! i found a lot of answers in all your videos, saludos amigo!

[@WalkThatBass]

Gracias, Federico :)

[@PeterMenardonpremier]

This is the best explanation of 'Free Jazz' and how it is arrived at that I have seen or heard. I think that the less restriction we place on the music the more wonderful it can be. I am not talking chaos. Sun Ra was one of the first composers that showed the way for me & allowed me to really appreciate a more free approach to jazz. You have to allow your mind & ears to 'open' and to be open to the music. As well as Coltrane & Coleman more modern examples would be Rempis, Lyons, Anderson, Murray and of course I think one of the most important composers of the late 20th century to the present, Ken Vandermark. Also I frequently hear a kind of referencing of 'Dixieland' when I am listening to some of my favourite Free Jazz groups.

[@harmvzon]

You know the work of Dutch muscisians like Micha Mengelberg or Willem Breuker. Maybe it will interest you?

[@olebirgerpedersen]

Motive changement was the idea of Bela Bartok when he composed his Stringquartetts. The Motive was often build on a creativ Intervall, wich je could change making it backwards Invention or/ and making both at the same time.

[@jessenowells2920]

The free in free jazz means freedom in choosing forms and all forms involve applying a set of rules. Freedom can only mean freedom in choosing a set of.

[@jessenowells2920]

Rules.

[@jessenowells2920]

The opposite of tonality is pan tonality.

[@paxwallacejazz]

Ornett Coleman like Stravinsky is never atonal except for Stravinsky's experiments with serial composition. Even Cecil aint atonal either because the act of improvisation involves the ear which will seek resolution even against your will.

[@quaveda1983]

Thank you for this great overview !! I really appreciate it

[@znmaf]

FANTASTIC lesson .Well Done

[@phuxmusic7538]

Great video - very understandable and really nice examples. Thanks for a beautiful introduction to a new understanding of this music

[@piktip]

A very good and thorough explanation on free jazz. Your videos do help a lot for understanding jazz and its variety of styles/topics. Thank you so much!

[@JoshNpublicgplus]

Dolphins played alto and bari sax, bass and soprano clarinet, flute, and piccolo, although I think his main instruments were bari sax, bass clarinet, and flute.

[@rile7648]

Forearm reveal 21:59 thanks for the lesson

[@jezjante]

I laughed out loud when you said "energetic puppies" 😂😂😂 I didn't expect that but yup that's the opposite of sadness 😁

[@badatsmalltalk1220]

Amazing video/lecture, thank you so much!

[@jimsneider4296]

very cool video, not to much that was new for me, still it was really nice to listen to and structured really nicely (while the subject is extremly intersting as well of course)

[@alansmith9635]

You are correct in emphasising the motivic aspect of the Ornette's methods. A sort of chain association where one rhythmic melodic motif gradually gets transformed into another which would determine the tonal harmonic direction a lot of the time. Of all his methods this one is the most important. I'm not sure however it's correct to characterise Ornette's music as pedal point oriented. 'Lonely Woman' aside his music actually uses melodic tonal scales but with constant modulation based on the idea that any one tone is potentially it's own tonal centre. You could say it's the influence of the overtone series at work. Haden's bass was pivotal in following these modulations and rarely stayed in one tonal area throughout the tune. Humpty Dumpty used three different tonal areas in the head statement and you can actually put chords to it as the accurate transcription in Chuck Sher's fake book proved. The other type of modulation at work is actually just sequencing of motives to other key centres based on his tendency to equate the various instrumental clefs . So Bb C and Eb instruments were written on a single clef without transposition in 'Skies Of America creating a sort of polytonality. This gave rise to the 'Harmolodic Scale' of alternate minor thirds and major seconds taking three octaves to complete and creating different transpose notes in different octaves for any given note. He's also throw in what paul Bley called 'Erasure phrases' made up of modulating fragments so rapid they would deliberately confuse your sense of tonality refreshing the listener for the next All in all it makes sense of his reply when asked about his approach. He named three tonal chords which together made up the chromatic scale. His was a way of traversing the 12 tones in music but by tonal means. Similar in a way to Dutch composer Peter Schaat's Tone Clock theory. One day a definitive guide to Ornette will be published but until then there's the transcriptions of tunes and improvisations to study.

[@rutgermuller]

Thank you.

[@samysmusicbox7084]

pour les français, le "Twelve tone serialism", c'est le "Dodécaphonisme" ! :)

[@paulodonnell4362]

interesting and informative, thank you

[@parsa.mostaghim]

very imformative. thanks a lot🙏

[@brandonharkins6900]

Great video dude, I wish you had mentioned Sun Ra tho

[@haoyangwu6173]

Your lessons are amazing!One question,what is loft jazz? I checked on the website and it is said that it continuation of free jazz?So basically it means loft jazz is as same as free jazz?Or is there any difference between them?Thanks a lot!

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks, mate. Yep, so Loft Jazz is a continuation of Free Jazz so it uses a lot of the same techniques - some atonality, polyrhythms, ameter (pulse rather than beat), and many of the other things I mentioned in this video. The major music difference is this: 1. Free Jazz intentionally tried to sound different and unlike any previous style of Jazz. Free Jazz consciously tried to avoid tonality and modality and strict meters and clear melodies (preferring collective improvisation). Free Jazz rejected all these things and tried to move and create something completely new. They did this to gain more 'freedom' - i.e. freedom from the confines of tonality/chord/etc. 2. Loft Jazz also tried to gain 'freedom' but their attitude was slightly different. If you have complete freedom, then you should have the freedom to choose to play tonally or with a clear melody or any other musical style. So whereas Free Jazz tried to move away from and avoid all previous musical influences, Loft Jazz musicians combined free jazz, pop, latin, funk, Eastern music, and anything else they wanted all together into one universal style. So they could still play atonally in ameter, but then throw in a blues riff or a funk rhythm or a clear V-I cadence. So Loft Jazz, while it grew out of Free Jazz, is much more eclectic and accepting of other musical styles. Does that make sense? (Incidentally, it's called Loft Jazz, because it was generally played in Lofts in New York in the 70's and 80's)

[@groupjpeg4598]

i love those addida

[@WalkThatBass]

Lol. The 90's are only over if you accept that they're over!

[@Ocean8881]

The first time I heard free Jazz, it sounded pretty random on the instrument and then I realize that the artist also played tonal music and pretty skillful in a diatonic context.

[@monsterjazzlicks]

There is so much rubbish out there, and here on You Tube. But this tutorial was very constructive and insightful, thanks!

[@walkaboutarts]

very insightful video, good explanations! absolutely love your channel, keep 'em coming bro

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks, walkabout. Will do :)

[@lindarodriguezpianostudio4191]

excellent video!

[@Ostkannit]

Thanks you really helped me understanding my presentation topic xD

[@monsterjazzlicks]

Anthony Braxton - FOR ALTO.

[@bill3837]

you can go in and out the harmony

[@bishalghimirey2993]

Isn't the whole system of indian classical music based on tonal center/modal center to allow complete freedom for artistic freedom..... So basically free jazz is the meeting point of indian and western jazz music..... Just my thoughts open to interpretation,pls provide your viewpoint. Thanks....

[@tyler1820]

Your videos are really informative! Do you happen to listen to any Sun Ra? It would be cool if you could come up with a lesson for some of Sun Ra's ideas

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks Tyler. I'll see what I can do - though I suspect music theory is different in Saturn...

[@eltonho09]

LOL

[@agamhamzah2924]

hahaha (LOL)

[@mitrayar]

Lovely video Would be great to know more about polytonal and more advanced rhythmic concepts, ideas

[@WalkThatBass]

I'll see what I can do.

[@amibeingdetained3417]

This is awesome. Dude made a 30 min video that makes sense on something that sounds like shit to everyone. That's hard af

[@amibeingdetained3417]

Love your vids man don't take that the wrong way hahah

Some people naturally respond to free jazz without understanding it and some people eat the same thing for lunch every day.

[@lookwhoneedsahobbie]

At 23:02, I really like it when you said: "Who, after having their heart broken, sings in tune?" Is that from somewhere? Or was that off the cuff? Also, I notice you usually play So What whenever you're giving a demonstration of modal jazz. Is that for familiarity's sake? I'd personally like to hear more variety but if there's a pedagogic reason for it then I'll be quiet lol Great video btw. You gave me a bunch of new musicians to check out and I really liked your analysis. The free jazz vs cat on the piano bit was really great. Thanks!

[@WalkThatBass]

Hey, lookwhoneedsahobbie. 1. My comment was just off the cuff. I may have subconsciously plagiarised it, but as far as I'm aware it's not a quote from anywhere. 2. Yeah, I generally just steal the overall groove from So What only because it's the best known and quintessential modal song. For whatever reason, most modal standards are in a minor mode (So What, Impressions, Footprints, Cantaloupe Island) and D dorian is just the easiest minor mode to play in (no flats or sharps). Plus I can only use one hand to play chords (while the other improvises), while most Modal piano vamps use two handed chords. So really I'm just playing a cliche modal groove in D Dorian which happens to sound like So What just coz it's easy. Forgive my laziness :) 3. Good luck with your Free Jazz listening, you'll probably need it. As I mentioned in a comment below, try listen to early Ornette Coleman ('The Shape of Jazz to Come' and 'Change of the Century') and early Cecil Taylor (Looking Ahead!) first and stay away from collective improvisation to begin with. That'll ease you into it. The above suggestions are still slightly grounded in tonality and aren't completely out of this world just yet. You can't jump straight into the deep end without learning how to swim. Cheers

[@lookwhoneedsahobbie]

+Walk That Bass awesome man thanks!

[@sidneyrichard5319]

I'd love to see someone - anyone - explain harmolodics. This involved the absolute substitution of tones. Like chord subs, but tied to absolute pitch... so if you wanted to play G in the second octave above middle C you'd play an F#, but maybe the next octave you'd play a G#. I kid you not, there was an interview in the seventies with James Blood Ulmer and he gave a chart and everything. I've always rejected musical norms. Just don't like the name. The other good one was M-Base. It had a manifesto and stuff, and involved lots of counting.

[@wids]

Sidney Richard There's a book on Amazon on Harmolodics I've been meaning to get but its a bit pricey. Maybe thatll help you. I think M-base had a vid on here kind of explaining themsleves

[@damonsmith290]

Harmolodics is letting the melodic improvisation and lines define the form & harmony rather than the other way around. Simple as that. In practice it gets quite complex, but that is what it is.

[@iframes2d]

So free jazz is substance over form ?😅 I also subscribed and self teaching myself jazz guitar. So video was very informative thanks

[@danilorodrigues3277]

I get it! It's like having a Pollock smacked on your ears!!!

[@JSW9174]

Thanks for all your amazing videos. I just gave playing this free jazz style a go on my piano. I recorded it and put it on KZbin. It would be fun to play this sort of music with a group.

[@WalkThatBass]

Had a listen. Nice one. Yeah, it's always a bit of fun ignoring the rules.

[@kokunst1634]

a cluster is not the same as secundal harmony, when you venture into secundal harmony you would just call it a chord. its only a cluster within the framework of normal tertiary harmony

[@nicholasmullane7162]

LOVE your vids!!

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks, mate :)

[@udomatthiasdrums5322]

love it!!

[@terrycrowder26]

Energetic puppies lol

[@DeedeeM3gaDooDoo]

I swear I've listened that song in my mind when he said that

[@safashokrai5951]

“Noise” = “texture”. Think like a painter.

[@agamhamzah2924]

Very Good and simple clear explanation for Conceptual Art of Free Jazz

[@WalkThatBass]

Cheers, Agam. Thank you for the comment.

[@agamhamzah2924]

You're welcome Mr, Walk that bass, do you have your original music? Thanks

[@WalkThatBass]

Nothing recorded, I'm afraid.

[@agamhamzah2924]

Hahaha (LOL) I think you're too humble my friend, you have a wide music knowledge I believe you have awesome music work.

[@WalkThatBass]

Thank you, Agam :) That's very kind of you to say. I'm just glad people seem to enjoy some of these videos. That's the reason I enjoy making them.

[@federico7748]

what are your tougths about ''things we like'? by Jack Bruce, John Mclaughlin, Dick Heckstall- smith and John Hiseman? thank you

[@WalkThatBass]

Had a listen. Free Jazz influenced psychedelic blues rock...interesting mix. It wouldn't be fair to compare this album to Coleman or Coltrane because this album isn't a pure Free Jazz album. It was generally great and fun to listen to but I did find some songs a bit flat. It does sometimes sounds like they are just doodling on a scale and the melodies are not quite convincing. Though, I suppose that's the rock influence - which is less intentionally emotive than jazz or blues. Was definitely worth a listen. Thanks. Though, I probably prefer his stuff with Cream :)

[@gustavodl]

😮👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@wangyiming3341]

what was the coltrane album name again? modal framework?

[@ReyhanJoseph]

Nobody: Absolutely no one: Free Jazz: *EXISTS*

[@andreatonero8553]

this comment moved me

[@Mymusicaldream]

For me lonely woman definitely has d as a key centre..

[@bill3837]

trane played more inside the mode than outside

[@curiouscatlabinc5035]

The video and the explanation is superb. Having that said ... Freedom of expression taken over the edge might turn into imprisonment of vacuum or you're stuck in a cul-de-sac whether you'd like to admit it or not , right? The emperor's new clothes is strong in this one ... and for all the rules and energy wasted on getting away from europeanized music etc it just seems like a new set of anti rules are doing the same job while making everything sound like shit haha! Also it's close to impossible to tell a skilled free jazz musician apart from someone who just walked in from the street. This makes it similar to having a bunch of people who have no clue about what they are talking about having a yelling competition. My only gripe with this video is the comment about earlu blues and pre-blues music. Early blues was very precise (although very different from other music in the US at the time) and the crowd had no problem finding the gifted performers with great feeling for rhythm and pitch, form and structure, as opposed what free jazz performers got away with. It's like calling toddler's hissy fits music!!! And ... conceptual art? HAHAHA! Thanks, but no thanks! :D

[@einsteinalexander7187]

One user can only press one like which is unfair to this video.

[@g.boychev9355]

How is there no key if the melody revolves around D? Clearly D is the tonal centre in this case.

[@ahmedal-hijazi3618]

But is it D major, melodic minor, phragyian, dininished lydian, major pentatonic, a microtonal scale….

[@quisowens8025]

Chick corea instantly came to mind

[@NotLegato]

wait uh... augmented... second? isn't that like, a minor third? can you *really* have an augmented third, a diminished sixth etc? and at that point, shouldn't it be "augmented major second" to make sure we're fully aware to which degree it relates in the harmony? weird.

[@AtibaChikeWilliams]

With 'imperfect' intervals, the from smallest to largest, it goes diminished, minor, major, augmented. So something like 'augmented major second' would be confusing.

[@NotLegato]

Atiba Chike Williams so.. a diminished second is technically a unison? does this also apply to any other degree? never heard of it used for anything else, though. i still don't fully get why it couldn't just be minor third to get rid of the confusion; even in any harmony, the note will relate to the tonic as a third, not a second.

[@WalkThatBass]

Hey, Not Legato. Yeah, as Atiba already answered, all 'imperfect' intervals (so not P1, P4, P5 or P8) can be 'diminished' (decreased by a semitone) or augmented (increased by a semitone). So you can have a diminished 6th (P5), etc. Check out the wiki page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminution#Diminution_of_intervals It's just a bit of semantic gymnastics. Chords are built by repeating a particular interval - 2nds, 3rds or 4ths. By allowing 'dim' and 'aug' intervals you can get more intervals in your chords. It's just another 'enharmonic equivalence'. In the same way that a Cb = B; an aug 2nd = m 3rd. They are just synonyms.

[@Shadowbannddiscourse]

Great video but I have to say something ornette Coleman free jazz was actually composed it was not all improvisation maybe the solos were but it was more he even said this himself that it wasn't all freeform it was just two bands that he had basically play but there was it was a composition also ornette Coleman did actually study violin he took 7 years off of playing from what I understand just to focus on that I remember reading that a long time ago so yes he had more than you think experience on the violin before he started using it in his pieces but cool I'm a free jazz fan I'm also a musician myself and interesting video PS I like the fact that you mentioned the context of where a lot of free jazz came from an ideological standpoint and just yes it was a reflection and still is a reflection of the Black American struggle

[@slavaleiman]

Фриджаз придумали коты! А Коулман присвоил себе все идеи.

[@goatphilososphy]

:)

[@wyc7tjmf794]

I just started watching your video and have found myself disagreeing with: a) your definition of free jazz as "systematic rejection" of traditional musical devices. E.g. Coleman extensively used diatonic melodies, blues form, bop vocabulary, etc. Free is free not because it rejects the tradition, but because it's not limited to it. I think defining "freedom" as a set of restrictions is somewhat self-contradictory. b) your statement that free jazz is an extension and continuation of modal jazz. Probably I've misunderstood that one, but if not, then I'm not sure this is factually correct (unless we're talking specifically about Miles, I dunno). In any case, I'm not trying to question your expertise or start a flame war or something, I'm just asking if you maybe could clarify these points a bit.

[@WalkThatBass]

Hi wYc7T jmf, Yeah, no worries, happy to clarify. I'll start with the easiest one. b) I'm not trying to say that Free Jazz is a extension of Modal Jazz. What I was hoping to say, which may not have come across as clearly as I would have liked, was that the general trend of Jazz during and after the 1950's was towards 'freer' or 'less restrictive' improvisation. Modal Jazz was created to not have to worry about chord changes when improvising (therefore freeing up improvisation a bit) and Free Jazz is a logical extension of that trend. It is not a historical continuation because Modal Jazz and Free Jazz appeared roughly at the same time, but rather it is just a logical continuation of the trend towards freer improvisation. Does that make sense? I should have been clearer in the video as you're right that Free Jazz did not grow out of Modal Jazz. a) This might be a semantic issue. Perhaps the word 'systematic' isn't quite the right word to use. As I tried to make clear in the video - Free Jazz doesn't HAVE to be atonal (it can be tonal) - i.e. you are not limited to atonality, you can be either tonal or atonal or modal or whatever. It's not that you 'have' to reject all musical devices, it's that you 'can'. I tried explain this by making a comparison to serialism. Serialism rejected existing rules only to create new ones. Free Jazz, tautologically, is free...free to accept or reject whatever musical rules it likes. But I agree with your statement. If I didn't make it clear enough that Free Jazz 'can' break rules but does not 'need' to break rules then I apologise. Many people would say that Ornette Coleman does not play 'atonally' at all but rather plays bebop and blues with a constantly shifting/modulating tonal centre. At a certain point this becomes an academic argument which I alluded to at the end of the video. Is atonality really possible? Or is every single note it's own tonal centre and therefore if you play all 12 notes in a row, you've simply played from 12 different tonal centres? This type of discuss is interesting but ultimately fruitless. You may as well discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Let me know what you think.

[@wyc7tjmf794]

+Walk That Bass Yeah, what you're saying makes perfect sense. I guess I have to apologise for commenting before watching the entire video - actually, you've explicitly drawn attention to my "a" point several times later in the video, making it clear what you've meant in the beginning. So yeah, sorry for the fuss - the lesson in its entirety is great! Now, the question about the possibility of absense of some kind of tonal center is indeed somewhat interesting. I believe that the main characteristic of music (any kind of it) and what differentiates it from any other art form is the fact that music is a process, i.e. something continuous in time. If you are reading a book, the ideas, characters and scenes are floating in your head, but that motion has no direct, straight connection to the text itself - which is static. Similarly, in theatre gesture conveys esthetic meaning and is static, and the scenery also is. You can pause a film and still be absorbing it, frame by frame, but it is impossible to pause music without destroying it. But if we accept that music is motion indeed, then it follows that no music can exist without context, just like a physical body can only move in relation to other body. So, if we believe Einstein (by the way, I heard he was not a bad vilonist himself!), then it seems we have to accept that once we introduce a single pitched sound, we therefore also introduce some kind of tonic, in relation to which all other sounds will be unfolding. Now, exactly *what* sound the tonic is in the given moment of time depends on the observer (listener), but the mere existence of some kind of point of reference seems to be necessary to percieve music. Of course, we can't really talk about "tonal center" if a piece does not consist of sounds with well-defined pitches, but then other aspects of music will take on this function. As for free jazz, I would agree that it doesn't matter if Coleman is playing "atonally" or "tonally with constantly shifting tonal center" (although I personally would tend to choose the second point of view) - it completely misses the point. What's important is whether the musicians are improvising on the melody, on the changes, on the motive, on the texture, on the association, on the cultural references... or something else. Also, I strongly agree with you on the point that free jazz is no less (and maybe even more) a social phenomena than improvisational approach or some other purely musical thing. So... yeah, I hope that's not too off-topic. Looking forward for another thought-provoking video! By the way, since you seem to have covered all of the main traditional jazz styles\approaches (although I understand there is much more to say here), maybe you would do a petite lecture on postmodernist(ish) tendencies in contemporary jazz? For example, I would love to hear your thoughts on the style of Ethan Iverson of The Bad Plus. In any case, thanks once again for the videos you are doing - I really enjoy the format and the choice of topics to cover.

[@WalkThatBass]

Thanks. Off-topic is good. It’s fun and often enlightening. 1. Yeah, the parallels between physics (especially General Relativity) and music are powerful analogies. Music is all about relativity and reference points and time and space (musical space rather than the physical kind, in this case). You can get some very illuminating metaphors happening - because music is, after all, based in science. 2. I enjoyed your characterisation of ‘music’ as a ‘process’. I tend to agree with you. I also think music is unique in that it is the only completely abstract art form. It literally means nothing and can therefore mean anything and everything. You can draw a picture of a tree, or write a book about marriage, or perform a play about betrayal, but music is just a collection of sounds and can never mean anything on its own. We may have learned to associate ‘minor’ with ‘sad’ but it need not be thus. 3. I do hope to eventually get to contemporary jazz, though that’s a little while off. There’s still a lot more I want cover with regard to more traditional jazz (like hard-bop and Latin jazz and cool jazz and fusion…etc.) I’m currently working on a few videos which will cover post-bop (a la Miles Davis’ Second Great Quintet). This will all take some time to complete. But it is on my radar. Thanks for the comment.

[@rams9162]

Nice Video clip! Forgive me for chiming in, I am interested in your opinion. Have you considered - Riddleagan Smart Hands Remedy (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a good one of a kind guide for learning piano fast without the normal expense. Ive heard some awesome things about it and my buddy at very last got cool results with it.

[@paxwallacejazz]

Coltrane isn't ever atonal you are confused about the difference between atonality and degrees of polytonality. Your attempt to play atonal isnt. The human ear is an unconscious and powerful thing always at work resolving shit in the listening of both the musician and listener.

[@olebirgerpedersen]

Ofcause this new thinking braught up a lot of socalled or selfcalled "musicians" who could play what they wanted without any respekt of their instrument. As a matter of fact this style requires an instrumentalist who knows his instrument to virtuoso. As said it bringst up a lot of amateures as I heard them in those days. I remember a guy who just baught his saxophone, comming up to the stage in jazzclub Montmartre in Copenhagen and all was convinced that he was fantastic. He was black so he had to be good. Reversed racismen. He couldn't play his instrument so it had to be free jazz.

[@jonasastrom3303]

Isn’t the whole idea with free jazz that you shall not try to explain it🤔On the other hand as soon you started to call it “jazz” you reveal and predetermine the form.

[@ericmalone3213]

The key word in so called "free jazz" isn't improvisation so much as extemporization. Atonality isn't quite the right word, that's something Arnold Schoenberg & the "Vienna School" endeavored. "Free Jazz" has to do not so much with atonality but rather with non-tempered scales. I've been stunned over some 30+ years, by how many musicians can not play in free time. Defining "free jazz" in the negative is an unfortunate error.( Cecil Taylor was very big on chords). Don't listen to verbal expositions of what "free jazz" is supposed to be. Immerse yourself in the works of Lol Coxhill, Evan Parker, Veryan Weston, Mette Rasmussen, John Butcher, Derek Bailey, Okkyung Lee, Fred Frith, Steve Lacy circa 1966 to 1972... Twig Martin Davidson's vast Emanem catalog... I've never been satisfied with the "free jazz" moniker: "Extemporized Music" is more accurate. The most interesting, compelling music defies "genre" & category.

[@paxwallacejazz]

Jazz isn't atonal ever. Unless it's made with noise. The act of improvisation involves the ear which automatcally engages our built in proclivity to resolve shit. Atonality is a thing. An elusive thing thats difficult to maintain. Like for instance Dave Holland Sam Rivers improvisations aren't Atonal. Your definition of atonal aint right bro.

[@RocknJazzer]

sorry but many/most free players do not use their ears to automatically resolve anything if at all. and often have no "proclivity" either...if anything they are trying to break and go against any "procliities" they and anyone listening may have. Your definition of atonal aint right bro. Atonality is not a thing any more that it is not, or that any other style is or is not a thing. Atonality is not elusive either, nor difficult to maintain, it is easy as pie...those free guys can play all night

[@RocknJazzer]

no one could tell the difference between the cat or the free player tho, especially if the song was called "cat walking on piano". I think you are giving the free players too much credit, and the cat too little

[@edwardmacnab354]

Blah blah blah .

[@yohna33]

This was fantastic explanation. Thanks so much. 🫶🏻