Freemasonry - The Belief in a Supreme Being (Part 2)

[@NizariAlamut]

Let’s remember also brother of what else was removed by the Grand Orient of France along with its requirement in a belief in a supreme being. Rituals contain no mention of Grand Architect, there’s no more prayers, invocations, circumambulations or any whatsoever esoteric formulas in the reworked rituals… arguably changing prominent Masonic traditions. The Grand Orient has taken too much from the Enlightenment period and fragmented away from traditional Masonry with its traits of progressivism and search for Reason with the exclusion of anything spiritual or religious.

[@JimJWalker]

Just believe in yourself. God lies within you. There is your belief.

[@Mr_ACarvalho]

There are many other very worthy organisations which are very similar to Freemasonry, some of which founded by people who were Freemasons, some accept only woman, and others which accept man and woman and that do not require a belief in a supreme being or have a VSL. In my opinion, if one does not agree with the requirements Freemasonry place on candidates for initiation, then why not join one of those other organisations that better fit their beliefs rather than change FM? S&F

[@NizariAlamut]

I agree, many other similar and vastly different organizations and orders exist. One can find their place there.

[@aegisltd2018]

Continuity dear boy

[@Mr_ACarvalho]

@@aegisltd2018 - I do not believe that Freemasonry has to continue at all cost, specially if that means that it has to change beyond recognition, if however, Freemasonry is no longer suited for 21st century men, then perhaps, it has no purpose to exist anymore and it should be allowed to have a natural and dignified death. S&F.

[@Mr_ACarvalho]

@@aegisltd2018 I do not believe Freemasonry has to continue at all cost, specially if that means changing beyond recognition. I believe Freemasonry evolved to fulfil a purpose, if however, Freemasonry is no longer suited for 21st men, then it has no purpose to exist and should be allowed to have a natural and dignified death. S&F

[@harveylovewell3959]

The point of the paper was to provoke discussion and point out some facts, I still think that a man's moral compass is what makes him a caring and nice person and a pillar of our community.

[@ihoeghianedmond2441]

Amazing

[@Mr_ACarvalho]

Can I ask if one of my replies to a comment has been deleted ? I posted it a couple of times and it disappears soon after I post it? Thanks.

[@FromtheQuarries]

Sorry to hear that. I haven't deleted any comments and KZbin hasn't flagged any as 'offensive' for me to action. Not sure what's happening, but this one got through OK 😊

[@MO-bo2du]

Oh no. Love your channel and watch almost all of your videos, but strongly disagree with this.

[@FromtheQuarries]

Fair enough. It was written to provoke, so I guess it's served its purpose there.

[@fusion9619]

So... Hmm. Are the opinions of non members welcome? I just found your channel. I strongly disagree with what you seem to be arguing for. And i might be starting to see why religious authorities so often speak against Masonry... Accepting atheists is not going to help your goal of finding men of honest and good character. I'm not saying no good atheists exist, but i will readily assert that poor moral character is more prevalent among atheists. This is just my experience in life... impulsive, unbalanced, irrational, and egotistical are some of the ways I'd describe most people I've encountered on the left side of the political spectrum, who seemingly always call themselves atheist. Of course, probably a minority of religious people are the kind of moral people that you're looking for also - but there is definitely a higher concentration of moral people among the religious. Again, i derive this opinion from my own life. As I became older, i moved from agnostic to fully Christian, and i know i am a better person than I used to be. I look at what it took to make that transition - humility, loss, travel, being a person i didn't want to be - and i don't know how i could have found God without every painful piece being exactly as it was. God truly does call certain people to Him. That doesn't mean he only wants them - he wants us all. But what that means is not as simple as, "join team protestant," or any if the other organizations that unthinking people treat as teams. Morality is a choice - and it's not simply choosing to "do good." Real morality starts with humility. Humility is awe and possibly terror at the grandeur of the unknown. And that is where the choice is - people who say "there is no God" are saying that they have a complete knowledge of something. But that's impossible. So choosing God is almost identical to choosing to recognize that reality is greater than yourself ; and choosing to believe in no God is fundamentally egotistical. And i have to correct something you said in either this or the last video - truth is not subjective. You should be able to derive the fact that objective truth exists just from recognizing that there is an unknown - an unknowably large (probably infinite) unknown. For this to be the case, a bedrock reality must exist. Hopefully you read that in a friendly tone... My writing often gets very negative reactions, but i don't mean to offend.

[@FromtheQuarries]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Brother Lovewell deliberately wrote this paper to stir up some debate and to get Masons to really think about their Craft. Your comment is a worthy and valued addition to this discussion - thanks.

[@fusion9619]

@@FromtheQuarries thanks for replying positively.. I almost deleted my comment right after writing it. There's a lot of jargon in your videos I don't understand. What exactly is your Craft?

[@FromtheQuarries]

That's a big question. At its heart, Freemasonry is a moral philosophy with the avowed intention of 'making good men better'. From our perspective, the definition of what makes a 'good man' has always required belief in a supreme being. This is what Brother Lovewell was challenging in his essay.

[@fusion9619]

@@FromtheQuarries I was just reading an article about you guys and it mentioned a vow of secrecy - aren't you violating that vow by doing this KZbin channel?

[@FromtheQuarries]

Absolutely not. We are not a 'secret society'. We are a society with some secrets that are restricted to members. That's all. Nothing in any of the videos on this channel in any way contravenes that. If you want to know what they are, you have to join. 😊

[@aegisltd2018]

UGLE needs to upgrade to all beliefs. Non-belief in deity is a belief.

[@NizariAlamut]

In a belief IN A supreme being. . U forgot the “IN A” part of the belief .

[@aegisltd2018]

@@NizariAlamut and you forgot my "non belief" being as valid. Lecturer alluded to the population changes in UK. Most of population in UK are now of no belief. By this exclusion you have a growing problem of continuity. Without new members, the fraternity dies eventually. So it has to evolve or die.

[@NizariAlamut]

And your assuming the only way to “survive” is to allow “atheism” or non belief of a supreme being is the way. I have no doubt that the tradition in which was revived in Freemasonry will continue to live. It takes Active masons not necessarily “new” masons

[@aegisltd2018]

@@NizariAlamut your assumption, not mine! I am merely asserting as was stated in the lecture, the statistics plus the fact that non belief is as valid as belief! Masonry alludes to respecting the beliefs of all. Hence the Grand Orient admits those with belief and those with none! Their numbers are growing. UGLE is in incipient decline

[@aegisltd2018]

@@NizariAlamut you are or you're!! Never your when you mean to use the possessive form.