French C6 Long-Recoil Prototype Semiauto Rifle

[@talesofshatou]

amazing that they were developing semi-autos this early with fighting in ranks still in mind

[@weirdscience8341]

Its amazing to think they used mass attacks in ww1 walking into withering fire from weaponary that diddnt even exist when the top brass were trained they used a bloody cavalry charge against german machine guns with artillery and mgs all zeroed on them tht must have been utter carnage

[@brentlolacher3000]

@@weirdscience8341..

[@Darthdoodoo]

​@@weirdscience8341part of me thinks that they must have been trying to lower the population and nobody would do that on purpose 😂😂

[@evilfuzzydoom]

Apparently $580 in 1911 US Dollars becomes $14,112 in 2017 US Dollars. Ouch indeed.

[@vthegoose]

Update for 2021: it’s $15000 and change

[@Pedro_Colicigno]

Update for 2023: $18,427.88 today. Lets see for how long this goes

[@Darthdoodoo]

Nov 2023 -due to inflation its now 1 billion dollars

[@puncifikator3870]

2024 may update: $19,068.69

[@genericfakename8197]

580USD in 1913 would translates to 14,271.69USD in 2017. No wonder they didn't adopt these rifles.

[@JoeSnuffie]

"Duffle cut." Thank you for taking the time to point out and explain something that I wouldn't have otherwise even noticed.

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

You stop your "judicious wiggling." Think of the children.

[@BigWheel.]

+Tilman Leiwes I'm 2 years old.

[@acedia_14]

What if Ian owns the RIAC youtube channel and commented on his own video?

[@Frenchcrop]

Being a 'Stéphanois', living in St Etienne for a while, it is great to see MAS guns, even if they didn't all work very well, you can appreciate the innovation. Thank you.

[@paulshayter1113]

The answer to what the button/lever on the side does is, "42".

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Fascinating piece. Very interesting ideas going on with this rifle. Never have seen V springs like that before.

[@lemmonsinmyeyes]

Ian is the honorary professor of firearms for KZbin. Always puts a lot of work into the information and the theory behind forearms. Really awesome work, you can tell it is a passion

[@Darthdoodoo]

Im a bit of a forearm officianato myself 😂😂

[@jameslawrie3807]

It may be insanely complex but it's a beautiful bit of engineering

[@andfranky8963]

Can you imagine the guys behind you firing a equivalent 7mm mags with the muzzle right next to your head. The ears would bleed as the brains oozed out of the nose.

[@BobtheHobo324]

Kine Vision They intentionally made the barrels long for that reason as well as so they dont accidentally shoot the guy in front of them. Even so, Id imagine it would still be very loud.

[@forlornfoe]

There is also this German tactic of shooting an MG42 while another soldier stabilizes it on his shoulder, gripping the bipod...

[@inigovillanueva1944]

Could you imagine the enemy dropping like flies by a volley fire of French troops armed with this rifle? Oh wait, machine guns.

[@therideneverends1697]

I thought that was the ear drum ruptureing tactic, huh

[@iphail4733]

Just for information, $550 in 1912 is roughly $13,750 (£9,900) per rifle.

[@Jambivids]

What an interesting piece of history

[@lyedavide]

That is one of the coolest rifles that's been featured on this channel. If only we could see it in action.

[@thomaslance1082]

I like how non biased Ian is.. keep up the good videos man!

[@MSUbulldog21]

Just became a patreon supporter! Hope I get to meet you someday, love the videos!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Thanks!

[@cyanidic3673]

this gun reminds me of the federov at the point where the wrist of the stock becomes the stock and handguard because it has the very thick depth like the federov does

[@Starless85]

Something really appealing about the aesthetics of this gun.

[@bretthutchison3991]

4:36 did he say 3400 feet per second? jeez

[@WBtimhawk]

For those interested, the Army museum at the Invalides in Paris has a pretty decent semi-auto WW1 era collection.

That's not surprising , and I bet there are some at the Manufrance Museum at St-Etienne

[@rolandbihot7944]

@ A saint Étienne y a un très beau musée Avec des armurier expert qui explique toute l'histoire de chaque arme avec explication de fabrication y a un canon de fusil en cour de forge aussi des carabine autre que française fusil henry et bien dautre

@@rolandbihot7944 since that comment i've been there

[@Darthdoodoo]

If you watch ian but don't know about C&Arsenal your missing out. Othias and mae are awesome. Best breakdown of old guns anywhere

[@szeredaiakos]

the button on the right seems like a secondary release/single load control. considering the length/weight it makes more sense to load the gun with yr right hand so you can keep the gun up during 2 rank volley fire.

[@special_kitty7195]

I don't know what's more interesting to me the history or the guns themselves. Sometimes it's the history and sometimes it's the guns I guess. I enjoy the full range of videos Ian has done. There is none else out there half as passionate as him.

[@chrisgentry7242]

When you said chauchat lmg I was actually looking at the thumbnail to another forgotten weapons video showing the same gun.

[@MrSebfrench76]

when we are uncapable in France to keep and share with others , our proud military heritage , here comes Ian. Love this weapon or hate it , but one thing to admit is that the french genious never cease to amaze me .Just like the french dumbness , at the same time... Thank you for making our days with pieces of enginnery that many of us still ignore

[@silverpleb2128]

uncapable to keep and share wuth others? what?

[@weirdscience8341]

French military doctarine shoot a bit stop for lunch and when the wine and brie is gone surrender

[@pvtparts6879]

@@silverpleb2128 France does not allow most ex military rifles to be kept or sold as surplus but instead destroy them

[@silverpleb2128]

@@pvtparts6879 yeah there are tens of thousands of French weapons in service all over the world, from the old más 36 and m'as 49 to more modern weapons, sometimes given, sometimes sold. But yeah if you say that, then you must be right....

[@pvtparts6879]

@@silverpleb2128 Those are rifles sent to allies as military aid or left behind after colonisation. What I was referring to was they generally don't sell surplus weapons on the private market. Either they are kept in storage, sent as military aid or destroyed. Ian covers this on many of his French firearms videos.

[@baershaag]

have watched it after being a big fan of the channel. The translation of "rossingnol" to englisch is "nightingale" or "Nachtigall" in gernan... only by the way and if no one have mentioned it before... ;-)

[@kainhall]

i think its some sort of single feed only thing.... if you push the follower all the way down, it might hook..... then the follower would be locked down, and the rounds wont feed...i think the level would allow the mag to feed.

[@FailedRanger]

it would be very interesting to see an example of the A and B rifles if you can find them

[@Phos9]

I think a conventional duffle cut on this gun would have led to problems with the barrel ring, it seems as though it would end up in a "boot straps" situation where the barrel ring is holding on the stock and the stock is holding on the barrel ring. The diagonal cut also gives more meat for the glue to hold on to. And that bullet in this gun seems like a great way to wear out a barrel.

[@SNOUPS4]

Ian, your efforts at well pronouncing french names are as always well appreciated; thanks for another great (informative) video! :)

[@akdude182]

I suspect the odd lever is meant to be a means of releasing the bolt without picking up a cartridge on a loaded magazine.Much like pushing the trigger forward on a Scotti model X.It releases the bolt and pulls the clip down (though the Scotti does this because it's an open bolt design).It seems to pull the follower down,though i cant tell if their is a way for it to positively pull down a clip.This would seem to make sense because their doesn't seem to be a manual safety of any kind,as well the French doctrine of the time was loaded magazine,empty chamber.

[@GodDamnitJake]

I think you nailed it there mate

[@KriegsMeister27]

Could that mysterious button maybe used for easier loading of single cartridges. It looked to me when you were messing with it would have eased on some of the tension of the follower making it a little bit easier to single load.

[@jagervonweebs610]

KriegsMeister27 it could also be used to loosen the follower if it gets jammed up by dirt considering the hole in the bottom of the internal magazine

[@Duhya]

Hey Ian. Been a fan for years. Was wondering how much time you usually spend with a gun to film these videos. Also how much time do you spend doing research, and writing a script?

[@acedia_14]

No reply for u

[@Souza45]

up

[@alexanderm3504]

Duhya Bernie Mac, RIP man..

[@planescaped]

You'd have better luck asking on Patreon.

[@FLVCTVAT_NEC_MERGITVR]

F

[@hwl7502]

That lever looks to me the actual mechanic to release the trigger guard and the bolt for disassembly, that hook is what lock the trigger guard to receiver so the hammer spring don't pop things all over the place, notice how much Ian have shacked it to take the piece off. It seems that front hook only engages when disassembling as it would be pulled back while the gun is loaded.

[@maxwood5157]

I think that it’s for loading one shot at a time, like a single shot, while the clip still has rounds in it

[@_Mezzanine]

so Rossignol the guy who mades skis... Did a rifle, it was called the Rossignol ENT had a gas direct impingement system and had a set of two triggers I presume one automatic one and a semi auto one

[@terryhall3907]

I just learned something new, I thought that the 250-3000 Savage was the first cartridge was the first to break the 3000 fps barrier

[@silaskaiser117]

The only thing I could think of that switch being is for a lockback-on-empty function, but since it already has a bolt release it seems a bit redundant. Still, this is a fascinating (albeit overly complicated) design. I recently started on another Forgotten Weapons binge and even got some of my friends interested! Oh, and since I'm here, I thought I might add my dad is Larry, the owner of the Rast & Gasser. : )

[@desertdude540]

I suppose its purpose could be to hold the bolt open while ejecting a non-empty clip. Otherwise you'd have to hold the bolt back with one hand while simultaneously reaching under the gun to press the clip release.

[@Milieboy]

maybe that lever allows the soldier to force a cartridge up in the receiver whenever mud gets in the magazine and causes feed problems

[@brbilheimer]

I'd be willing to be that unknown lever is some kind of magazine cut off

[@ALegitimateYoutuber]

my god that bullet would be a great round for today, because that velocity would give it rather good armor penetrating capability. Because 1km/s is no joke, though at the same time that would most likely reduce it's effectiveness against unarmored targets. Since it would have to much energy, and just go strait through.

[@jameshealy4594]

It's only ~80m/s faster than a 5.56 out of a 20" barrel, sure it's a difference but not a huge one. Fast moving bullets can be made to stop very quickly upon hitting flesh, that is how many hunting bullets are designed to work.

[@ALegitimateYoutuber]

James Healy well remember this is a bigger round, and also military rounds can't be anti-flesh. Thus just fmj or some generic bullet design like that.

[@kevinoliver3083]

Its interesting that in the 1910s militaries were looking at higher velocity rifle cartridges than they already had. When combat experience in WW1 would show that what they were using was already overpowered.

[@DiggingForFacts]

You have to wonder what the life of this gun has been. If this really was lifted by the Marquis, then it would have been nigh-on useless with that odd proprietary cartridge. Then somehow a GI got his mitts on it and cut it up in an unusual location. So what the heck has it been doing since travelling the world in a duffle bag? Collecting dust? This thing is really odd in so many ways.

[@marcamant7258]

Rossignol=nightingale; the sound "gnol" loks like (espa)nol with the tilde. But we know you are french friendly. And assisting your vids is always a pleasure.

[@staniam1441]

I love your videos I am a huge fan of old guns

[@sturmtruppen6666]

I love historic guns

[@smokeytokyo4553]

That one insanely complicated action

[@yPhil]

It's pronounced "Rosiniol" you actually got it pretty OK the first time :) oh, and the "r" of "Mounier" is (always) silent ; You know how the "a" sounds when you say "a pistol"? or the first sound in "evaporate"? No, wait, better yet : you know "touché"? There you have it : "er" sound (exactly) like "é" : Mounier. Ian, I've been here since the early blog beginnings, and it's been really great the whole time ; Merci :)

[@weirdscience8341]

The best contribution to firerms the french ever made slash invented was the thv ammunition them things are little brass demons even a 32acp would take the majority of a bad guys head off if not remove a good portion of it there such high velocity they make a .556 version id love to gel test and chrony it they achive 2 thousand fps from a little 32 cal revolver so from a rifle or closed action gun the velocity would be just insane i love the original thv ammo u can only get it from south africa nowdays or get a person lathe savvy to turn you some it would be fantastic in a 38 special

[@BF-I-II-V-V-III-VII]

Why not having a spring loaded trapdoor on the empty clip opening? Dust cant get inside and the empty clip is ejected when you load a new one. A clip "rail" might be necessary to be sure the clip dont move sideway when you reload. But i never saw something like that on any gun that i know. Is there something i didn't think about? Maybe cost and manufacture...

[@thatsleepyguy136]

could the unknown lever be a magazine cutoff? it is connected to the follower, and they were in fashion at the time

[@chapiit08]

The bolt goes forwrad "cluchunk" and the springs can go "capoing" into the air. Ian likes to use his onamatopoeias.

[@mattorama]

All this semi auto development that got put on hold when WW1 broke out, I wonder what The Great War would have looked like if it didn't break out until another five years later and weapon development meant everyone in the trenches had an auto loader.

[@drmaudio]

It seems he could have benefited by looking at what browning was doing at the time with the Model 8 and the A5.

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Damn, Bretherton really liked his prototype semi-autos. How'd he find all of these?

[@littlegrabbiZZ9PZA]

TheGoldenCaulk once you become known for this sort of thing (and having a largish bank account), people offer you things.

[@Momo_Kawashima]

Me: *reads Chauchat* Also me: *internal screams*

[@PrinterStand]

These videos are fucking awseome.

[@a.lampman2165]

Jesus. $500 in 1913 is like $12.5k today. O_O EDIT: Which, given the price range on Rock Island right now, is actually more than the gun will likely sell for. ie this super rare prototype military rifle's value dropped almost $4000 since it was first produced. What a steal.

[@Tendrop711]

In case anyone was wondering, $580 in 1913 = $14,162 in 2016.

[@112-DavidL]

Ian @20:27 you see that lug you didn't know the function of from @17:05. it looks to me like it may be a safety, as it swings a cam the is attached to a V-Spring connected to the trigger

[@RS-pe5hp]

I think that right button allows you to close bolt with full mag without chambering the round? So soldiers can carry this with magazine but still safe but more faster to get ready...

[@spiloFTW]

how did they measure velocity in that age?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

A ballistic pendulum is one simple way. The mass of the bullet and pendulum are known, and the distance the pendulum travels is easily measured. That allows you to calculate velocity.

[@spiloFTW]

intresting thanks for the answer

[@hellrizerusa2797]

spiloFTW it was very easy, as most laws of physics come from the 17-18th century, with most non organic chemistry science coming from the 18-19th century. Even right now, as a student learning in the 10th grade, I can measure the velocity using the things I learned in physics and chemistry.

[@kennya90j]

spiloFTW The downside of a ballistic pendulum is that it doesn't scale up well. There were some incredibly large ones built for artillery testing before more modern methods of measuring velocity were developed. Think a pendulum requiring supports the size of medieval castle towers.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Heat is an insignificant factor in this equation.

[@GauthierGAUTHIER-d7e]

This cartridge has not really been adopted for the front, it was just for testing

[@FiveTwoSevenTHR]

that switch on the side looks like a way to take tension off of the hammer spring. maybe it's a different way to have a safety?

[@gunner678]

Rossingnol is french for nightingale...its quite a common name in my area in France.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

This looks like the sort of rifle you would issue to a palace guard if the French had still had a Monarchy - soldiers who typically would have the time to take meticulous care of a complicated and somewhat fragile weapon.

[@vasquez1414]

This is probably going to be the medic rifle added during the French DLC for battlefield 1

[@Old299dfk]

If an RSC and a General Liu had a baby

[@morenn420]

The "gn" in french is pronounced like the spanish "ñ"

[@weirdscience8341]

The name gun comes from gonne wich is a place in France were the hand gonne basically a tiny cannon on a stick was invented i.e the hand gonne when Anglosised it became gun or hand gun i think i read tht a while ago so may be a bit off but i think im right

[@GrySgtBubba]

Kinda thinkin that little unknown lever is some sorta forward assist, or possibly a backup bolt release/dirty mag spring assist

[@odizzido]

That front sight post looks really good. What is so sucky about it that you don't really see it on modern rifles?

[@vice6996]

fun FYI: $500 in 1912 is approx. $12,300 in 2016. so yeah...that would've not been cheap to manufacture.

[@therideneverends1697]

This is super cool but i can definitely see why it was not adopted, theres just so much going on.

[@ealtar]

quite the nice piece of course it's way way too complicated do you imagine doing a blindfold field strip !

[@YerluvinunclePete]

Maybe the mystery control was something for unloading?

[@Spitsz01]

Would be interesting to find out how this "G.I" got his hands on this since the rifle was never issued. WW2 maybe?

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

Goodness, that's a complicated piece...

[@sarrumac]

Very interesting gun.

[@JACKSONLEWISOFCANADA]

Dang that cartridge really means cover is just concealment….

[@richardsheil3503]

A video on HK mp7 and kh416

[@JamesIII]

Would be nice to actually see how long-recoil system works when actually shooting.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJK7ZYpqfbuilbc

[@JamesIII]

Wohoo, thank you

[@kikoh1ghest888]

+Forgotten Weapons How much these guns cost ? I'm interesting in getting one :-)

[@ryangerrard4662]

the control that is unknown. could it be a forward assist? i couldn't tell by the camera angle. just my thought

[@fhsreelfilms]

Wow! What a cool piece! Ian, do you think that little lever could be a kind of forward assist?

[@alexandersimpson3638]

Would the mystery leaver allow if the trigger is engaged at the same time, an automatic burst...?

[@PMMM9]

Great video

[@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid]

Maybe that lever empties the magazine?

[@Kingstone1981]

Darn French resistance stole all of those rifles, now we can't have Ian make more videos about them :D If only they could think 72 years ahead...

[@kevinmoore4173]

could that lever possibly be to re-cock the hammer if the round doesn't fire?

[@robertanvilrm]

i think that lever is a magazine cut off what do you think

[@zacharydevan4107]

Rossingnol. Most of us americans say "ross-ing-knoll." like the ski company.

[@russiadoggo761]

Nice video

[@nicksimmons723]

I am not quite sure I understood how the rifle holds the bolt back long enough for the barrel to return home without an empty magazine. Is it actually semi auto or is pressing the bolt release necessary every time?

[@NM-wd7kx]

Super late, but if you're still wondering: the barrel moving back into position trips a bolt release automatically, they are truly semi automatic

[@parkerjoffrion3091]

Could that unknown lever be some type of weird magazine cutoff?

[@jackrabbit823]

You know this going to end up in Battlefield 1

[@AJadedLizard]

Never did, but we got the RSC at least.

[@McBanditHope]

Could you in the future do a little episode on reproductions of some of the weapons you've covered (besides the better known German ones) if such things exist?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

As a general rule, there are no reproductions of anything I feature. Not because I would object to that, but because there aren't many reproduction guns made in general outside the Civil War and Old West areas.

[@McBanditHope]

Ah well, maybe someday....

[@3DMegadoodoo]

They'd have to be unforgotten weapons.

[@ristoalanko9281]

Long recoil guns... why are they all forgotten? I want ONE modern one to shoot!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Browning Auto-5.

[@eugenespicer3272]

Do you have any videos that are for current auctions?

[@whh2000]

How do all these odd guns and prototypes come into the hands of the sellers?

[@jleepoops]

whh2000 because most of these prototypes were terrible and would jam very easily

[@matthewkriebel7342]

whh2000 He didn't bring back anything as cool as this, but one of my grandfather's jobs after the end of the war was de-arming everyone. Weapons caches, volksturm guns, and personal weapons were all confiscated, so these soldiers had kinda first dibs on what they found.

[@_yellow]

Matthew, do you know what would happen to the firearms after being confiscated? Would they be destroyed?

[@matthewkriebel7342]

***** He was a soldier. Army Engineers. He was contacted by collectors a lot to sell any souvenirs, which he never did, but I'm sure plenty of his peers, or their heirs, did. I don't know what happened to the confiscated weapons. I'm sure a lot of them were destroyed, yes, but the vast majority were entirely mundane. Of course, I'd go nuts at the site of a literal heap of K98ks, but hey, the last thing the US/Britain wanted (as Ian pointed out with the French Resistance was a surplus of weapons during a power vacuum. His souvenirs, fwiw, were a single-shot .22 Mauser training/farmer rifle (Ian did an interview with a lady who collects these, actually) and a .25 pocket pistol. Also SA and Luftwaffe daggers, some patches, and a copy of Mein Kampf.

[@robertsmith1434]

I do actually. Confiscated weapons were evaluated and a some (depending upon type and condition) were retained. The rest were either "deactivated", meaning their barrels and actions were cut into pieces or dumped. In WWII they literally dumped loads of them into the Atlantic. The retained weapons were kept for either reissue to civil police and other agencies as well as some being sold to foreign powers. The G.I. guns you see are brought back into the US by a soldier/sailor etc. who during an overseas tour found and "liberated" a gun they liked. This is not allowed today... buuuut it still happens a lot. Just don't bring in fully automatic weapons and nobody really cares. Generally G.I.s stick them in company/headquarters gear now instead of their own duffel-bag though. LOL. I know a ton of stuff was brought back from Iraq and still from Afghanistan. Particularly, a friend managed to grab a Colt 1911 (United States Property) with a 5-digit serial. I might know of someone else who managed to bring some others back... but nothing as nice as that Colt darn it.

[@davidjames2788]

I doubt it would've been fitted with a bayonet lug, being a long recoil gun.

[@Jstone108]

Could that part be a clip ejector?

[@wastedmymind5463]

I think its a leaver to switch to manual operation