French Education System Explained: Grandes Ecoles vs University

The higher French Education system explained - what is up with these private Grandes Ecoles and how do they compare to the French University system? What are the differences between the students? How do their employment prospects stack up?
What is a Grande Ecole? You may have heard of the French Grandes Ecoles or French Business Schools. An elitist system with access given based on your ranking in a highly competitive exam after two years of preparatory school. An amazing network and professional experience is on offer here. Being private, they can also be very expensive. French universities on the other hand have their benefits too. They are free and focus much more on self-directed learning. The French university system, however, can be seen as too theoretical and often orientating students towards becoming researchers.
So, where to study in France? Is there a right way place to study in France? If you're thinking about studying in France then perhaps this video can help you to decipher the system.
What about you? Have you been to a French Grande Ecole? Or a French university? What do you think are the pros and cons of the two systems? I look forward to hearing from you down below!
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[@geflut]

The fact that "Grandes Écoles" are private is true about business schools, but less about engineering and scientific schools. The most famous ones are actually public, like Polytechnique, ENS, Mines, or Centrale. I'm from a "Grande École", and I did a double degree with an university, because it can be a bit better for a few domain like scientific research (which is what I want to do). It is also an advantage when you want to work in a foreign country since University is known everywhere.

[@dominic20]

Hi! I was planning to apply to do my master at UPMC (now renamed Sorbonne U, I believe). I did my undergraduate in Canada and my research focus is Neuroscience and Biology, so I never really considered a Grande Ecole, but now I'm conflicted. Do you think its much better if I try to get into ENS or another grand ecole?

[@geflut]

If you want to do scientific research and have the opportunity to get into ENS, that's clearly a choice worth considering. other than that, I don't think any other grande école would be much better than UPMC. (I don't really know much about UPMC in particular though)

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Hello dear, well I said "kind of the equivalent" I did not say it was private, because it is complex and I wanted to help people to understand. Please also bear in mind that this is not true for international students, they have to pay a lot to go to French Grandes Ecoles and I'm talking about polytechnique for instance! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought i was only talking to students abroad! :)

[@VictouffeVideos]

Yep, in science and for engineering schools, the Grandes Ecoles are free in most cases. If you get in Polytechnique or ENS, you also have a scholarshop from the state (around the SMIC, and only if you are a citizen from the EU).

[@s3lfFish]

I'm sorry but half of grandes ecoles are also public : beaux arts, arts deco, estienne, les gobelins, (yeah i did art studies)... you just have to pass the test, but its worth it, and public. on the opposit side you stihave a lot of private shcools which aren't better than public ones, have no test to enter, and are just expensive and shitty. I think it depends on the job sector

[@kakab66]

Most of Grandes Écoles are actually gouvernement public institutions, Ecole Polytechnique, Central, Normal Sup a lot ENSI's etc. On the other hand a lot of business "Grandes Écoles" are private.

[@Lagadep]

Adrigue le vert Et vive maths sup / maths spe !

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Hello you are absolutely right, I meant that they are the equivalent of private universities like Oxford, Stanford or Harvard in terms of recognition and higher selection, because the audience is international and not French. :) This was supposed to be a very simplified picture of the French system because it is very difficult to understand from the outside and I'm happy to see people actually give much more insights than I could in a 10min video!

[@axel6269]

Some of them even pay their students (Polytechnique, ENS)

[@chlore2amine]

Ce que l'on appelle "grandes écoles" sont des cursus que l'on intègre généralement après un concours d'où" les classes préparatoires aux grandes écoles". Certaines acceptent un certain quota d'élèves uniquement sur titre (donc sans concours). Aucun rapport avec le fait qu'elles soient privées ou pas.

[@blackalien6873]

@@TheMagicMadeline It just made you seem stupid.

[@Gf2133]

En fait, il y a plus que deux voies possibles après le Lycée : IUT, BTS, Université, une myriade de "petites écoles" et les Grandes écoles. Après, si les universités et les grandes écoles sont parfois en concurrence (écoles de commerce vs fac d'éco/gestion, écoles normales supérieures vs fac d'histoire/lettres/philosophie, écoles d'ingénieurs+prépas vs fac de sciences), elles ne le sont pas toujours car il n'y a par exemple pas de grande école de droit (sauf à la rigueur le collège droit de sciencespo Paris) et pas de grande école de médecine. Inversement, il n'y a pas de fac où on peut faire des études de vétérinaire, il faut donc nécessairement passer par une école, comme pour devenir pilote d'avions, il n'existe pas d'université pour cela. Également, il faut préciser que toutes les grandes écoles ne sont pas privées : Polytechnique est une école publique, comme l'ENS, comme l'ENA, l'ENM...

[@Lizzu]

Pour l'accès aux grandes ecoles certaines proposent ce qu'on appelle l'Accès sur titre. L'université fait de même. Aux grandes écoles un certain nombre de places leur est attribué. Selon ton niveau d'étude précédent IUT, BTS (qui se place donc au même niveau d'étude que les Classes Prépa soit 2 ans) tu peux essayer d'entrer dans certaines écoles sans passer par le concours. Dans ce cas tu dois demander à ton école de faire un dossier avec une évaluation de continuation d'étude. le dossier est étudié par la Grande Ecole voulue. Il y a un entretien et une sélection faite. Pour l'université quand tu viens d'IUT ou BTS selon la branche choisie il peut être proposé de sauter une ou deux années. Moi avec mon BTS on m'a proposé de sauter ma 1ère année de licence, ce que j'ai refusée. Désolée c'est pas ici que je voulais placer mon commentaire mais la j'ai la flemme de le déplacer.

[@firestormz9913]

après il n'y a pas réellement de concurrence entre une école d'inge et une fac de science la finalité est totalement différente non ?

[@fussel895]

@@firestormz9913 j'ai toujours pensé que faire une école d'ingé était mieux perçu ...

[@eliedeniau3939]

Il y a des master dans des domaines d'ingénierie à la fac comme le génie civil, la mécanique.. C'est l'équivalent des écoles d'ingénieur, mais sciences c'est vaste

[@phixi7417]

@@fussel895 bah c'est vrai.

[@TheWurrzag]

Hi ! First of all I really enjoy your videos : i'm french and it's amusing to see what people think about "us" worlwide. It's also fun to see how you describes the parisian stereotype. It perfectly matches what people think about Paris in other french region. I've done a scientific "classe préparatoire" and i am now in a "grande école" (engineering school). I do agree with most of what you say here but I may add some things : - According to me, the greatest difference between the uni and the "prepa" is that you study different subject simultaneously in prepa. For exemple after my 2 years of prepa I had the equivalent of a 2 years degree in maths and physics and I had good basis in engineering sciences, chemistry and english. Prépa is kind of an intensive uni for the first two years. For the scientific prepas, the objective is to have a general culture about as many scientific field as possible because there are a LOT of schools you can go to after a prepa. That's why sometimes people who have done a prepa think they work more than those who are in the uni. However, the differences between uni and "grande ecole" are less and less important as you specialized yourself. - From my point of view, prepa and uni are two different ways of doing the same thing and today there are few differences between having a master and an engineering school degree. The master leads of course more to do some research whereas the engineering school is more meant for the industry. But you can do both with the two diploma. I have a very good friend of mine who is in uni and studies the same subject as me and we basically have the same courses. - There are publics and privates "grandes écoles". I am in a public one wich means that i pay the same fees as in uni. In the scientific field privates "grande ecoles" are not well rated (people are said to buy their degree). However, the organization in public and private schools are generally the same and the main differences with the uni are those you describes. - There are differences between each field (sciences, social sciences, management, business ...). In every field there are unis,publics and privates "schools". The way tertiary education works depends on the field. The differences between unis and schools are more or less important in every field. This is for the scientific part of the education system, i don't know much about the other fields. I hope I was understandable, if you have any question don't hesitate to ask ! PS : sorry if I made some mistakes

[@MaxAnnoying]

Bonne video. Je pense qu ca peut se resumer comme ca: - on a 3 systemes de selection en general: celle par l'usure (les universites publiques), par l'argent (les grandes ecole payantes, HEC, ESSEC) et par les competences a un instant T (les grandes ecoles gratuites necessitant des prepas la majorite du temps, genre X ou Centrale). - Dans les universites, c'est simple de rentrer, mais tres dur de sortir avec un diplome valorisant, parce qu'en gros, t'es plutot livre a toi-meme. Donc le cote pragmatique, tu devras le trouver tout seul. - Dans les deux autres systemes, la selection etant a l'entree, quand tu rentres t'es quasi certain de sortir avec ton diplome, et on te formate quasiment a rentrer dans le monde des entreprises. Apres personnellement quand je suis sollicite pour un recrutement, j'ai tendance a favoriser les Universitaires, car dans ma branche on a davantage besoin de personnes autonomes et disruptives que de executants, meme si ils sont managers. J'ai fait les 3 systemes, et j'ai beaucoup plus appris sur ma facon de proceder dans ma periode universitaire que dans mes autres experiences. Je suis interesse par les autres retours, si d'autres professionnels sont prets a partager leurs experiences.

[@NonStopParis]

Haha, in the UK, you have Oxford and Cambridge and ‘other universities’ 😜

[@BBrunnel]

Oxford, Cambridge, Russel Group then the others lol

[@butterflyunicorn7951]

😂😂😂 better!

[@andreivladpalica7397]

Well said!

[@md.mahbubulbashar779]

yes sure , 1000 times better than your shit french universities .

[@big3missuie212]

@@md.mahbubulbashar779 Not really. These British universities can’t even compete with US universities as a whole.

[@Dakta96]

I think you should definitely invite someone on the show that went to a Grande École in order to get their point of view, you might be surprised.

[@Dakta96]

Just because your interview was biased in so many ways.

[@AD-jq7ow]

Surprised by what? I did university and grande ecole (actually i had to do grande ecole in order to be competitive on the job market because all the top companies only recruit people from grande école... And usually only the top ones.. But they don't tell you that in high school, only the privileged knows how it works)

[@humourisnotmything]

YAASSS!!! Dans tes vidéos, tu parles toujours de sujets super intéressants !! Bisous :)

[@sushipepperoni7756]

1) The only true "Grandes écoles" are free public schools for engineers, high-grade teachers (« agrégés »), army and navy officers. We have to be careful to not mix these with private business schools for which « grandes écoles » is a only a tag for marketing themselves. This tag is not recognized by the french ministry of national education who only admits « école supérieure » (higher school), which is quite a difference. 2) Selection process for business schools is not really what you may think : when you enter a « prépa commerciale », your chances to get a seat in a business school are of 100%… but entering the top three is indeed very, very difficult and needs a lot of harsh work.

[@sushipepperoni7756]

You are totally free to say you come from a "grande école" if you went to a business school, because this is what everybody does, and "ça ne casse pas trois pattes à un canard". There is a "petite histoire" behind this : once upon a time, some higher schools gathered in a private association named "conférence des grandes écoles", designed to promote and defend the interests of their members. They did not own the words "grande école" and opened therafter their doors to business schools and now others (journalism, architecture...). But ultra-selective schools like sciences-po were not members until recently and all selective higher schools are not included in "conférence des grandes écoles", which is quite confusing. Entering this association was a very successful strategy for business schools to shine next to the old public, free, state-funded engineering schools, at the expense of confusing people's minds. And thank you, I really like your videos ! Cheers !

[@azurman3]

Please, HEC has been part of the "conférence des grandes écoles" since the creation of this conference in 1973. Of course, the engineering schools are the traditional grandes écoles, for military use, but today everyone acknowledges that business schools are grandes écoles, all the more so as you have some rubbish too among your engineering grandes écoles. To say "grandes écoles" in order to refer to business schools is not a whim, that is an official designation. We would recognise easily the engineer in your words.

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Hello Sushi Pepperoni! Please bear in mind that even for engineering schools, it's not free for international students and I'm talking for Polytechnique here for instance! :)

[@midorishiwa]

TheMagicMadeline Actually, à vast majority of international students at Polytechnique have scholarships and don't pay their study, they also get paid every month by student associations: almost all students take money off their salary to give them one

[@laurettemad4977]

Hey ! Good job ! I just want to precise that to be an Engineer in France, you have to go to a Grande Ecole, BUT they are NOT PRIVATE, and cost the same that universities (less than 1000€). You have to do prépa first usually, but of course other way exist.

[@ron9403]

You both nailed this tricky topic. Well done ! I was born in Paris and obtained my bachelor degree at La Sorbonne. Now, I am doing a master's degree in Brussels and I've noticed that in Belgium it's other way around : Business schools are looked down upon whereas Universities are worshipped. So when you graduate from university, it's very easy to get jobs in the top 5 companies even when you don't have much practical job experience. Theoretical knowledge is highly valued in Belgium (as it should in my opinion).

[@LakshminarayanaraoLakshm-xg1hi]

Hi Ron, myself Sunil from india thank for giving such good information..and i wanna do my master's in france so can you give me your valuable suggestion? actually in my bachelor's i have 58% so is there a scope for me to get into public universities? thank you Ron

[@jonathan1391544]

Ron hi, I plan on going to Sorbonne Université next year, would you recommend it?

[@constance4869]

Also some things you can only learn in university are for instance medicine or law. 😊 You can get good jobs out of universities diploma but you will have to prove yourself more, especially in the business world, because Grandes ecoles have this selective image in recruiters minds. If you survived prepa and made it into the top schools, it shows you can work hard and are competitive. Sometimes people forget that you have to be really competitive to make it to MA or PhD at university.

[@Pierric556]

La medecine c'est encore à part avec le système de numerus clausus. C'est mes études et je ne regrette pour rien au monde de ne pas avoir fais de math sup/math spe. 👌 c'était pas ma came.

[@Pierric556]

Santiago Trestini Effectivement les métiers de la santé (médecine, pharmacie, dentiste...) et du droit (avocat, notaire, juge...) ne peuvent se faire qu’à l’université publique. Les grandes écoles concernent plutôt les ingénieurs, les politiciens, les journalistes, le commerce, le marketing, le management....

[@mariagutierrez4293]

@@Pierric556 Et la psychologie? Désole, je ne ecris pas bien en francais, mais je comprends. Merci

[@samp.8975]

@@mariagutierrez4293 à l'université :)

[@Fuyu_ImpactTV]

@Maria Gutierrez ça fait partie du domaine de la santé ! Donc université.

[@janecluzeau9525]

Hello Rosie :) I'm French and actually I think your friend is too one-sided when she speaks about Grandes Ecoles. I'm in ENS Lyon, philosophy department, I worked during 3 years in classes préparatoires and I think you'll be surprise to hear that most of my friends (that I met when I was in prépa) have very VERY good memories about prépa. We even go back from time to time because we miss our teachers ! So yes It's pretty difficult to study for a Grande Ecole but, in.my experience it worth it.

[@janetsuarez2548]

Jane am going to study in ENS Lyon, I did not know that for the french citizens you had to go to the prépa :O

[@janecluzeau9525]

@@janetsuarez2548 prépa are the best way to prepare ENS’s competitive exams. Actually 99% of the ENS French students come from CPGE (prépa). CPGE are made for these schools :)

[@janetsuarez2548]

@@janecluzeau9525 And do you know how is the selection for international students then? Looks like is easier for us to get in ... I would love to keep contact with you, are you still working in the ENS Lyon?

[@janecluzeau9525]

@@janetsuarez2548 I don’t think there is a selection for international students like it was for us. Sadly I graduated, I’m a PHD student now however you can have a tutor with the ASSET : an association created in order to take care of international students coming at the ENS Lyon :) they are very kind ! Try to reach them through their website.

[@Origine25]

I don’t know how it really is in Grandes Écoles but I know I tried university (in languages : English-Japanese), and it’s definitely not for everyone either. You are not at all helped by the teachers, you have to be really serious and work by yourself. You could be happy to have so much free time but it’s really dangerous because this free time, if not used to study, is going to bring you down. You need so much focus. But after I left this part of university, I went to an other part of university. It’s still a public course and it’s called IUT (Stands for « technological institue of university »). In IUT there is maybe a bit more of a selection than in "general" university. Or at least there was one where I asked to go. It’s mainly a selection regarding your high school level, and your application (in the field I went in - graphic design and multimedia - we had to send some of our work) As for the lessons, an IUT is way more guided than university. It almost looks like high school. I had class 5 days a week, from 8:30am to 17:30pm (1h lunch break). We really built a relationship with our teachers and they followed us for 2 years. There was a lot of technical work, but also really abstract notions. With a good balance between the two. Two internships were to be done, one for each year. Not really long ones though. I personally really loved IUT, it’s a perfect mix between uni life and high school spirit (because we are followed by a pedagogical team) After that I went in Uni once again, but for an other type of Licence that is called Licence professionnelle (professional licence). It’s a one year diploma you can enter after a two year diploma. And most of the time, if it’s not all of it, you do it in « alternance », which means you have kind of a one year long internship in one company, and you are half the time at school, and the other half at work. The company may for the year of studies (not that much compared to private schools alternance, that are way more expensive) You earn money, and you earn experience. It an other great way to study, because your professional experience has value for companies that you will apply for (if you are not hired at the one you did your alternance ;D)

[@alex180111]

Wow wow most engineering grandes ecoles are public. In the preparatory classes you get a vast theorical background (at least in science where I am from), but the true purpose of that is to get to a high enough level to be able to rank everyone from geniuses to the drop outs. It doesn't really matter what you studied in the school, because the firms know you were smart enough to get in, and that's enough for them. By the way there are a lot more options than universities and Grandes Ecoles ^^

[@Samchocolate11]

Flash such as what?

[@Laurent69ftm]

You also have BTSs and DUTs, 2-year courses where you learn a job and you can work immediately afterwards without studying for 5 years.

[@Redgethechemist]

The typical patronizing engineer. It's not because you were accepted in an engineering school that you are smart, with enough training, even a monkey could be accepted. This superiority that engineering schools are selling to students is just bullshit. If French engineers were so smart, every developed country would have adopted this system, and it's not the case at all. Engineers are just qualified technicians. If French engineers were so good, France would be a leader in industry with innovative products and inventions. These schools made sense in Napoléon time, but now there are just one of the symptoms that make France going down in innovation because of consanguinity. All these pseudo elites (politicians, entrepreneurs...) come from the same school system and are making things worse year after year. They hire only people with the same pedigree without giving a chance to the others. If you take for example the car industry, French brands are just followers, nobody who has enough money wants a French car, they prefer more reliable cars with a better technology and comfort than Renault or Peugeot. I don't tell engineers are bad, they do their job, but nothing more, they won't try to make it better than what was asked. They are just brave little soldiers that will execute their boss's orders. And even though many Grandes écoles are public, I can tell expenses are not the same, one of my cousins had to get a student loan to be able to go to one of these engineering schools and prépas are rarely free. Me, I had to go to the university because I wanted to be a doctor and I didn't want to ask my parents to pay for this and in my cursus, I met many engineer students, and I could see that there was not a big mixity, they were mostly from well-to-do families (doctors, professors, engineers...). This is unfortunately how France works like, a caste of privileged people trying to keep their advantages as much as they can, and there is a real glass ceiling between them and the plebs. Even if you're very intelligent but born in the wrong family, it will be very difficult for you to go to the same schools, get internships in presitgious companies or a good job position, meanwhile the ones who are part of this world will only have to ask "Papa" to give a few calls or meet the president of the school who will share his address book.

[@alex180111]

tldr, I just said that was the reasonning behind the french system, no judgement.

[@VictouffeVideos]

If money is a problem then you are boursier and the prepatory classes are free. And if you have to pay the same amount of money if you go to University. the system is made to give everyone the same chances, regardless to where they come from. In some schools (ENS for example), they even give you a colarchip if you get in. I believe that the main problem is orientation. People who comes from a "good family" will be pushed more toward a classe preparatoire.

[@chloe147]

Hey Rosie, I love the content of your videos. You are always very spot on. On this one though, I think I can add some perspective. I am french and studied engineering in a Grande Ecole (with Prepa Intégrée = no compétitive exam between year 2 and 3). I would say that university vs grande école depends A LOT on what career you want and what field you’re in. And all grandes écoles aren’t private. If you want to be: a doctor -> University, selection is after year 1. And since it is free, it’s sooooo competitive. Lawyer -> University too and very competitive as well. Engineering -> grande écoles for the practical content, the access to labs and company funded research projects. Engineering schools are pretty diverse and have a lot of partnerships with universities abroad. (I studied in Michigan, and ended doing a MS at Wisconsin). The best engineering schools are public and free, the less-renowned ones are private. Business -> grande école for the name, but the content in universities should be the same. The stigma is strong in the business school sector and in my opinion going to a grande école doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be more knowledgeable. The best business schools are the most expensive ( opposite than for engineering). Teachers, -> you can get a master from a university and have to take an exam at the end of your master (CAPES, CAPEPS). If you don’t take that exam you will have to find what to do with your degree (Coach - if you studied physical education for exemple) Now if you decide to be very focused in one area, let’s say physics, you will generally have to power through License, Master and PhD in the university. The first three years are usually spent amongst a lot of other students in crowded classes, and most students don’t have a clear idea of what they want to do. I think that someone who obtains a PhD from a university has a remarkable self-motivation and autonomy. These students are usually very bright and end up working in National Labs (and are not paid as much as they should - maybe you could do a video that compares salaries in France vs other countries 🤓). Usually going to university for less than a master’s degree doesn’t open a lot of doors for a good career. I don’t know so much about your guy’s field but I hope that I provided some insight on the rest. Keep on going. Great work. 😉

[@choukarahreda8968]

Great topic! As a "Grandes écoles" student, I do believe that as you said the "classes prépa" system has pros and cons, but more importantly, the choice between prepa and university should depend on the ability to push back one's limits, and handle stress. I was a bit cringing when you mentionned the creativity for universty students as in opposition to "grandes écoles" students xD, but generally all that was said remains very true, overall. As for me, I do not regret my choice, even if you get tired of constantly working during prepa, you get pretty much well rewarded for your immense hard work and it seems quite fair to me, not to mention the pride you can feel after the two years (3 for some). Thank you so much for your videos and keep up the great work :D !

[@EKSTAfx]

The thing you girls had not mentionned is that sometimes there is no " Grande Ecoles " to do what we want. For exemple, there is no " Grande Ecoles " and Private school to study law. It means, that if you want to be judge, want to be lawyer, or even work in politics, being president or whatever YOU MUST go to Public University for 5 years, and then there is the selection to " Ecole nationale de la Magistrature " for exemple.

[@pierremorel1361]

And the main part of the medicine schools are universities !

[@nodokaasia]

Actually I've tried both systems. I did 4 years at university and 2 in a Grande école for a master degree... And I choosed to do so because I felt I couldn't go to a big company while being in a university. I'm not from Ile-de-france so the number of big companies is quite low in province and it's even more difficult to get in if you're from university, even for an internship. Your teachers never stop to say that you will never make it etc so you start to loose confidence about yourself and start to believe that the only way to get a better job, big company and a higher salary is to go to a grande école. However... I prefer the mindset of people from university and the solidarity from it. There is a lot more diversity as well and I regret a bit that time. But I hope that choice will definitly help me in the future.

[@eurydiceboine3755]

I probably should be working right now since I'm in prépa but I love your videos, it's very calming!

[@superGXstar]

T'inquiète pas! :p moi je regardais des vidéos tous les jours en prépa et j'ai quand même réussi à intégrer haha! Courage ^^

[@DimitriDee5]

Love your videos! Super helpful to someone in the US!

[@alfinou_13targaryen]

Wow Rosie ! I know this video was released several months ago but I discovered your channel just last week ! I absolutely adore your content ! Your analysis of our culture (I'm French btw) is definitely excellent ! And I'm willingly using excellent, not "pas mal" even though I'm a teacher ah ah! Thank you so much for these videos !

[@AnnaAndBanana]

I'm currently on exchange at HEC (I'm from Sydney, Australia) and this video has really helped me understand the whole tertiary education system in France! And also explains why so many of the HEC students are rather stuck up...lol

[@mislenemislene8588]

I know that I'm two years late, but what does "stuck up" mean ? I'm French :)

[@andrewpwalters]

@@mislenemislene8588 It means they're snob

[@looorrainebzh]

En fait, dans les grandes écoles, tu es formée au monde du travail, à son fonctionnement, à ses spécificités en fonction de ton domaine, on t’entraîne à avoir la bonne attitude, à construire ton réseau et on te pousse pour que tu obtiennes les résultats et l'attitude attendu (tu apprends les codes du monde du travail, pas seulement les bases mais tous les codes qui vont faire de toi un bon candidat même si tu n'as qu'une vingtaine d'années) alors qu'à l'université, on te délivre le savoir académique nécessaire et démerde toi^^ On ne te pousse pas, on ne t’entraîne pas, tu dois te faire tout seul, ingurgiter du savoir et compter sur tes capacités d'analyse, de réflexion, de rédaction (tout ça on considère que tu l'as appris au lycée, d'où l'importance d'aller dans un bon lycée / d'ailleurs on dit toujours que ceux qui ont besoin d'être un peu poussé, suivi, fliqué n'y arriveront pas à l'université, et on leur conseille d'aller dans des filières plus techniques comme les diplôme bac +2 type DUT, BTS etc) ou de passer par une classe préparatoire si ils veulent aller vers un domaine un peu pointue et qu'ils ont suivi le lycée en mode croisière pour apprendre à bosser^^) et tu créés ton futur réseau par tes amitiés, pas par intérêt et généralement, ça nous amène à avoir un réseau beaucoup plus "amicale" et varié.

[@osez111]

C'est ca: d'un coté, on te dit quoi etudier chaque semaine et on t'entraine à réussir l'examen alors que dans l'autre, on te file les cours, et on te dit "l'examen est en janvier, bye, so long and thx for all the fish"

[@lonewaer]

I think this video is on point on most aspects of the subject, but I think it scratches the surface regarding the selection process, and the "symbolism" between the two. It's been observed and theorized by a few people, that this education system effectively perpetuates social classes from one generation to the next. Put more simply, people entering a Grande École, and then passing, are statistically mainly bourgeois. The "elites", as some like to call their students ; and people going to university… are statistically mainly middle class or poor. There are very little exceptions to that. One reason for that is the cost of some of those schools : if you can't pay, you can't go, which is a direct selection on income/resources : those are incidentally full of rich people, most of them bourgeois. Since some of them are public, the other criteria is the effective selection. Most require, like you said, a prépa, and the prépa being very hard and intense, it itself discourage a lot of people, a lot of people fail trying to get through it, and those who don't get discouraged or who don't fail still have to pass the selection. Like you also said, not everyone passes, places are limited. Obviously the best are selected, less obviously, the best are often the ones whom the parents have more money/time to spend on, so their education/instruction is good. I cannot seem to find the specific extract so it's shorter, but a guy named Franck Lepage describes this phenomenon in his conference "Incultures 2 - Comprendre le dysfonctionnement de l'Éducation Nationale" that you can find on KZbin. It is a long watch, and I'm sorry for that, but it's very enlightening, the whole conference is.

[@TheCapitaineCarnage]

Every time I have to describe what universities in France are, in terms of selection, I use the Funnel metaphor. Opened-doors at the start, everyone (almost everyone) can get in, and then the real selection starts. First years are very numerous, usually around 350/400 students, and maybe less than half of them will graduate. And then, further studies (Masters, Doctorate) are even less used. A group of 20 students in Master is a big group. Truly, French Public Universities use a Funnel system.

[@butterflyunicorn7951]

There’s one thing you forgot to mention: It’s hard to get into a prépa... you also have a selection process...

[@marinvivaz6940]

To be exactly precise, I think this video emphasises on Business "Grandes Ecoles", and if that was the title, I guess, from what I've heard I would agree. Yet I disagree with most of the things you say if we think of the engineering "Grandes Ecoles": *First of all they're public (even though there is the same hard selection after two years of "Classes préparatoires") and as such, you pay the same fee as the "free" universities *In terms of diversity, In my case it really does not apply to my school I think, as a third of our engineering students (not talking about those in masters) come from other universities, in exchange for a double degree, which allow to meet formidable people coming from everywhere around the globe, and of course widen your perspectives and who you are. *It is true that these schools value work experiences, but that is also the case of firms, which not only look at the degree but also to the Resume, and experiences/ exchanges in other countries, and also the different carreers we choosed. Those things are determined by our grades and so technically, not only the degree matters, our grades do too. *Finally, once again, I base my points over my own school, but the majors "Groupes de Grandes Ecoles d'Ingénieur" are seen as generalist school and not specialized : Our system is based on a solid common knowledge, which we complete with a year disciplinary option. In the end our title is "Ingénieur généraliste". *Even though in science some things most things are not "criticizable" such as physic laws, what is questionable is how you approach what you learn in the real life. In that sense, I believe that we question ourselves about our knowledge more often than people in universities (I might be completly wrong I reckon) because we have to adapt to the working world and industry However I completly agree on the fact that there is stronger bonds between "Grandes Ecoles" and firms than with public universities, as the label matters on a CV. Yet I still believe that both formations are differents, they have their pros and cons but in the end there IS a real difference. Anyway, you did an amazing job for this video and the others, I discovered you today and I think you are making great content. I learned a lot about my own country watching you and that is refreshing. I am really happy that you enjoy France. Keep going with your videos, you're rockin' it !

[@hugok.2783]

I would have said there are 3 main options after high school but it was 20 years ago. Time flies. So it may have changed since then. 1) Fac 2) Classes préparatoires 3) IUT / BTS for "a priori" shorter studies. It was also possible to enter directlly to some grande ecole (with integrated preparations) but choices were far more limited and some were private (and expensive). After listening, I guess Adeline chose the first option. It would have been nice to know a little bit more about her studies and schooling choices at the beginning of the video. By the way her english is very good, did she go abroad to study it?

[@petitetemperence3722]

Great video, but it's not exactly true. There is 3 chooses after the bac: - universities - prepa and Grandes Écoles - BTS and DUT, that are short studies (2 years) and are more technicals (expecially the BTS). I'm actually in a DUT (in graphism/webdesign/informatic/audio-visual) , so I'm a bit desapointed that you forgot to mention it. Many students go in one of these two. Maybe it's because for people who did a university or a Grande École, it doesn't have a good image, but, after a DUT, we can be accept in a a 3rd year of university (what I want to do) or in a engeneree school without suffer in a prepa if we have good results. PS: I hope you will understand my English, it's not very good.

[@BrittBrattBossLady]

Mia Little Fox Thank you for your comment. I went to a 2 year technical college, which is called a “community college” here in the USA. I never finished, but would like to go back to school in France. I have been searching the internet to find out what a “community college” is called in French.

[@big3missuie212]

What do BTS and DUT stand for?

[@m.b-bourillon6327]

@@big3missuie212 BTS stand for superior technician certificate, and DUT for technical university diploma. Even if those 2 are the same degree, we can say that a DUT is better because you can keep going studies more easily after getting your diploma (and most of people do it) while BTS is more turn to bring you directly to work.

[@big3missuie212]

@@m.b-bourillon6327 Thank you for the very helpful explanation!

[@johanneppy2434]

Well i am french and there is actually a third option at the end of high school : professionnal diplomas : DUT, BTS... where you actually learn a job in 2 years. They can be in private schools or in public institutions. And after that you can join university with an equivalence if you want to continue. That’s what i did! So i have both very practical knowledge and very theoretical one that complement each other!

[@nererodriguez950]

Thank you Rosie for this video! greetings from El Salvador 🇸🇻 I am planning on studying abroad and I’ve been looking for information about public universities in Paris. This video was super useful to me because I didn’t really know the difference between a Grand École diploma and a University diploma. Keep the great work! and thank you for being a great help for those who are planning to start a new life in France 😊💕

[@alex180111]

If you don't plan to work in France or in a French firm, it doesn't matter, because the Grandes Ecoles system is pretty much completely unknown by the rest of the world (the diploma would just be equivalent to a master). But I would say that the student life is usually more developed, so you should go for it.

[@nererodriguez950]

actually Yes, I would like to work in France 🤔 I’m planning on studying a DU Diplôme Universitaire d’études français first, and then get another degree and work 🤔 Would that be too complicated?

[@alex180111]

If you want to do all your studies in France, you would have to do that in oder to get good enough in french, and then go to the university (by the way there are always possibilities to get a Grande Ecole through university with high enough grades). If you want to go in a Grande Ecole : there are international students who do preparatory classes, but most of them come from a "Lycée français" (if you don't know about them : they are basically french highschools in other countries) and have a very good level in french. I don't know if you can do that after your DU. The other option is to start your studies in a university in your country (or any country) which has a partnership with a french school, and get good enough grades to do a double degree ^^ Which field will you study?

[@nererodriguez950]

Awesome! thanks! I have B2 level in French and yes, I would like to do all my studies there. 🤞🏽😊🤞🏽

[@nererodriguez950]

Flash I want to study languages

[@arnaudf.425]

Hello ! As a french student who is now in an engineering school and who has made prépa, i have to say that pretty much of what you're saying is true except for the competetive mindset. At least with my experience i think that the mindset has changed especially for the scientific prépa because there is enought places in engineering schools for everyone. The competitive mindset wasn't a big deal for me and everybody were helping each other to go through this tough time !

[@th2030]

However when it comes to Law degree universities are prefered. If you have a Law degree from Sorbonne or Asass you are pretty much settled.

[@alexandrehey7965]

Belle vidéo mais je dois faire quelques précisions sur les grandes écoles D'abord pour les écoles d'ingénieur elles sont majoritairement public et presque gratuite, surtout les meilleurs Et aussi une fois en école il ne suffit pas de laisser passer l'année jusqu'au diplôme, les sujets sont très complexe mais c'est juste que le rythme de travail parait dérisoire comparé à la Prépa mais reste quand même plus élevé qu'à la fac

[@zonzzonz4764]

Alexandre Hey je suis pas vraiment d'accord. Le rythme en grandes écoles est beaucoup moins soutenu qu'à la fac (en tout cas les 3 dernières années de fac)

[@ClementMasson]

zonz zonz je suis plutot d'acord avec Alexandre. Je ne sais pas de quelles 3 dernière s années tu parles (L3 et Master ?) Mais les deux dernières années d'ecole d'ingé ne sont pas données non plus. En général il est vrai que la 1 ere année a la réputation d'etre plus tranquille dans beaucoup d'école (après c'est aussi en partie parce qu'on sort de 2 ou 3 ans de prépa donc ^^)

[@ClementMasson]

Alexandre Hey effectivement je voudrais insister sur le fait que toutes les grandes écoles d'ingénieur sont publiques (X, CentraleSupelec, Mines, Ponts, Supaero, Telecom, Ensta, ENS). Les plus prestigieuses PAYENT leurs etudiants : X et ENS ! Pour les autres, les frais de scolarité sont en général assez peu élevés

[@gabrielmayoud4374]

Pour le rythme de travail, difficile de comparer fac et écoles d'ingé, dans la mesure où les variations sont grandes d'une fac à l'autre et d'une école à l'autre. Là où on travaille le plus, c'est clair que c'est les prépas et la paces (première année de médecine). Mais aussi par exemple ma petite sœur qui est en L2, double license droit-éco à Assas, c'est le même niveau de taf, si ce n'est plus... Ensuite le travail demandé varie beaucoup d'une école d'ingé à l'autre. Celle qui est réputée pour être une vraie école de branleur c'est Centrale Paris. Mais celle où je suis, les Ponts, est très sérieuse, et demande de vraiment taffer, clairement plus que dans une fac classique. Ce qui n'empêche pas d'avoir une vie de promo intense, et ça c'est une grosse différence avec la fac. Tjrs des événements, mais c'est en vase clos (les écoles d'ingé sont d'ailleurs souvent loin de tout). Du coup ça crée des promos extrêmement soudée mais fermées sur elles-mêmes, et cet esprit de corps persiste dans le monde professionnel comme rosy le dit dans la vidéo. Ensuite t'as les écoles de commerce. Là, après tes 2/3 ans noyé sous le taf en prépa, tu peux te toucher la nouille toute la journée, un truc de malade. C'est très différent des écoles d'ingé car en école d'ingé on continue principalement à intégrer des connaissances, des méthodes, alors qu'en école de commerce on découvre et appréhende le monde de l'entreprise.

[@alexandrehey7965]

Alors dans mon commentaire je parle juste du fait que en général on bosse beaucoup et que c'est pas la touchette comme elles le disent dans la vidéo Mais on ne peut pas vraiment comparer à la fac entière puisque même dans la fac il y a de très grosses différences entre les filière (double cursus/ médecine etc) Mais de manière général ceux qui réussissent à rejoindre des écoles depuis la fac trouvent qu'il y a une augmentation du travail donc l'impression de fête permanente des écoles viens qu'elles sont remplis de gens qui ont fait deux ans de Prépa (3 pour les vrais) et qui sont beaucoup efficaces dans le travail donc qui trouvent ça plus facile

[@amydeeb6077]

Wow, Grand Ecoles “expensive” at 3000€ a year... in the US, a private university is closer to $70,000 per year.

[@abbenguillet]

Amy, that is exactly what I was going to comment! "Expensive" certainly is relative! My husband went to la Fac de Pharmacie à Paris, and his mother has always said: ce n'était pas gratuit. We took out a second mortgage to pay for our children to go to private college in the US. Not quite the same... Rosie, I enjoy your videos so much.

[@mux90able]

And that at universities with lower academic standards. God bless Europe lol 😂

[@eighteen7287]

it's more like 12-17k per year...

[@big3missuie212]

@@mux90able So Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc. have lower standards? 😂

[@lennonation]

Hi from India! I'm applying for business scholls in France for Masters in Management this year. Your content has helped me understand the French education system from within and in depth. Thank you!

[@aishatlawal4796]

Hi Singh, if you are in France for your MIM can I connect with you via email to discuss a few? I am also working to start the MIM and would love insight on a few things. Thank you!

[@oknok8010]

As one having managerial responsibilities in a company I may bring some complementary elements : - once people are past the 5 year experience point, uni vs. Grande école is a lot less important than experience, knowledge, personality and an ability to Bring added value to the company and your project. - grande école usually provide a better organized and stronger alumni network. Especially useful for a first job, career change, and breaking a glass ceiling - it's ( sadly) easier to hire someone from a grand école : their area of expertise is easier to pinpoint and you know what you can expect. Universities suffer from their very, very, wide range of curriculum and the difficulty for a company to understand how they will translate into the business world. This is a shame since those people may bring an interesting point of view, but recruiting cost lots of time and money, and a company need some true commitment if it wish to seek interesting outliers - it all depend heavily on the company weight of history and the prevalence of people coming from one or the other option : birds of a same feather - the two system train people in a different way. If it's not always very visible, it sometime result in a very different take on issues. Good thing, but sometime difficult to mix I hope this may help you, go on with the good work , and thank you for your ever so enjoyable videos.

[@oknok8010]

Ps: above remarks are fields and job dependent. As vastly pointed out in the comments their is no grande école for every field and job. Therefore the point is sometime mott

[@sam47881]

Side note : Many of these Grandes Ecoles (especially the best ones) are actually public (Sciences Po, Saint Cyr, some business schools, ENA, Polytechniques...)

[@cachalot309]

Wowowow be very careful ! Most grandes écoles are public, it’s mostly the grandes ecoles de commerce that are private, but most engineering grandes ecoles are absolutely publiques, and also schools like ENS. I feel triggered since this is one of the last French prides we can have, the fact that you can study in a very prestigious grande école and that it is publique, so very low scholar payments (Polytechnique, Arts et Métiers, ENS, Centrale, les Mines, les Ponts etc...) It’s decreasing year after year, but you can still succeed if you don’t have money from the beginning.

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Hello dear, you are totally right, I tried to simplify it so I said the "equivalent" for a foreign audience. Please also bear in mind that this is not true for international students, they have to pay a lot to go to French Grandes Ecoles and I'm talking about polytechnique for instance! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought i was only talking to students abroad! :)

[@cachalot309]

TheMagicMadeline Hey ! No problem, and I have to admit I didn’t know foreign students had to pay a lot to go to grandes ecoles, even the public ones, so thanks for the good information ! :)

[@Laurent69ftm]

Actually no, it's the same conditions as for the French (~600 euros a year in public engineering schools). International students can also get a scholarship to pay their rent and food. As for Polytechnique it's also free even for international students unless you do the "Bachelor".

[@TubeofDestiny]

Let's not mention all the extremely costly and necessary private prépa then... If you don't have money, you better have an excellent, way-above-average work and intellectual capacities, far superior to your peers, all acquired autonomously, otherwise the Grandes Écoles are not accessible at all. Just because something is "public" and *in theory* can be accessed by anyone doesn't mean it's actually accessible to anyone. But as usual and expected from that milieu, it's all fine and dandy on the outside - very curated appearances - while on the outside we're still rolling with the centuries-old social reproduction. Ever wondered why, despite boasting about such excellent education provided by these Écoles, we're still lagging behind in all international rankings? Because it's a 'traditionally' close-minded system, that is struggling to reform and modernize, so we end recruiting in a much smaller pool of people, putting some average people on pedestal because their family had the money to get them in through countless private tutoring and prépa. Sure that old system produces _some_ brilliant minds, but it also serves a social reproduction tool, producing not-so-great people but from the 'right' milieu, instead of lifting up all the potential from the less fortunate social classes. They have painfully added a couple of seats for the few very gifted students who don't have the money for the prépa, but it's still anecdotal wishful thinking ("affirmative action"): if you're from the city projects or a prolo, you have a much smaller chance at getting in these Grandes Écoles, regardless of your capacities and potential.

[@free_soul9154]

Hey how good is Arts et metiers for international students in terms industrial reputation?

[@hausolivier3188]

Toujours un réel plaisir de regarder tes vidéos. Sujets toujours intéressants et traité avec brio. J'adore vraiment ta chaîne, ne change rien. Amicalement.

[@cecilerouxel3503]

Je pense qu’il faudrait faire une deuxième vidéo avec une personne qui a fait ou qui est en train de faire une grande école pour avoir l’avis des deux côtés. Mais sinon j’adore tes vidéos, ça me permet de m’améliorer en anglais 👍

[@AD-jq7ow]

J'ai fais les deux université puis grande école... Ce qu'elle dit est juste

[@DanicaChristin]

This is extremely interesting! Would love to hear more about the French school system 💙♥️

[@tomtom_bzh5868]

Hey. Still love your videos. Just for a bit of context, I taught at a grande école without coming from one. (one of the 3 big in Paris area) What I can say now is that the real difference between University and grande école is the passage through classes prepa. This passage can be really hard and even destructive for those who fail, but it teaches one thing that isn't taught elsewhere... It teaches you to work and to learn... And that's why they are so appreciated by managers, even with their flaws (formating people and over pride that can come with it)

[@faithlesshound5621]

Many countries have, or used to have, a stage in their education system where young people spend a year or more on the intensive study of standard textbooks so that they have everything at their fingertips and are able to answer trick questions with ease. For India, China and Japan that may be the entrance examination to some lucrative field like engineering or law. Oxford and Cambridge used to have entry exams which required English schoolboys to spend an extra (third) year in the sixth form at school to take Scholarship or "S" Level papers, but they stopped doing that over 50 years ago. The Mandarin exams in China were like that for nearly 2000 years: young men studied to write "eight legged essays" on anything at all liberally sprinkled with word-perfect quotations from the Confucian classics. Many societies used to send clever boys (and some girls) away to spend a few years memorising their holy scriptures. That may have been "rigorous," but it was also self-defeating for society at large. Clever boys (now girls too) spend the most creative years of their lives, at least for a subject like mathematics, on repetitive drudgery. It kept them out of trouble, and at the end they were safe to count rich people's money for them, and they were not going to come up with new ideas. However, the societies which did that, including India, China and the Arab world, became ultra-conservative and fell behind in technology. Their elites continued to fight each other, but there was no risk of the ordinary people rising up and beheading their kings, as happened in England, France and even Russia. But those societies were all overthrown and colonised by those unstable countries which did not lock down their clever young people and stifle change.

[@AlexLopez-hb5cl]

We have a similar stigma here in California between the UC and CSU systems. Where CSUs from the same cities or near UCs are seen as less prestigious. Needless to say, there’s definitely a stigma, at least in the job market, towards those who attended CSUs over those who attended UCs.

[@midorishiwa]

I don't get where you get this sense that Grandes Écoles are costly, a lot of them are extremely cheap, funded by the state, and in some you even get paid while you study

[@rinpotatoalien759]

I agree, I did pay for my scholarship in a private "grande école" but what I paid didn't even cover 20% (rough estimate) of the cost of my education, because the school and government actually covered 80% of it (fyi I was in engineering)

[@AD-jq7ow]

Grande ecole de commerce are private and expensive... Grande école d'ingénieur are mostly public and cheap

[@veronicaa.9872]

Hey I was wondering where can I get the info of which écoles are cheap, all the ones i found are kinda expensive compared to the prices said in the video

[@_maxrvid]

The best schools in engneering like polytechnique, mines, centrale are public and free (student are also paid in polytechnique.). So the best students can get into these grandes écoles, even if they are very poor. They only need to be talentous and hardworkers. From this point of view, the french education system for engineer is probably the most fair compare to many countries !

[@Miaina77]

It's kind of naive. You must have a favourable background (family, social environment) to be competitive to enter in those schools. If you've done your High School in Seine Saint-Denis, it will definitely be far more difficult than someone (has hard-worker and smart as you) who have been in Versailles's Hoche.

[@AntoinetteEmily]

It was so interesting to learn about the French education system, in some ways it's quite similar to the education system here in Germany. Both of you girls are so effortlessly gorgeous! You could totally pass as a French girl Rosie.

[@DanicaChristin]

Antoinette Emily I think the biggest similarity is that they have the lycee with is equivalent to the German gymnasium (highest level of high school). However when it comes to public vs private in Germany, public schools and universities often have a much better reputation than the private ones.

[@AntoinetteEmily]

So pleased you've found Rosies channel Danica! Yes the gymnasium and the lycee is what made me think about the similarities but there are also many differences.

[@DanicaChristin]

Antoinette Emily definitely great content over here too 😊

[@AntoinetteEmily]

and she has a pretty cool accent too😜

[@DanicaChristin]

Antoinette Emily 👍 Btw you should definitely join us over there on Twitter, it's a great place for us KZbinrs to hang out 😉

[@ArmandE]

Wrong facts here. Except in the economic and commercial fields, the grandes écoles are public, not private (École normale supérieure, École polytechnique, etc., which are also the most prestigious ones). You actually GET PAID to study in those schools!

[@juliea7248]

Beaucoup de gens qui ont fait des grandes écoles se sentent visiblement offensés dans les commentaires^^ Perso j'ai été en fac d'histoire et mes amis qui étaient en prépa n'arrêtaient pas de me dire à quel point l'enseignement en prépa était plus avancé, alors qu'en fait c'est totalement différent. Madeline l'explique bien dans la vidéo, en prépa puis dans les grandes écoles y a beaucoup de cours, beaucoup de boulot, mais on te dit quoi apprendre, alors qu'à la fac on t'apprend plus la recherche, t'as que 20h de cours par semaine et si tu veux avoir ton semestre faut passer ta vie à la BU pour compléter les cours magistraux qui sont juste une base. C'est comme ça que se fait la sélection.

[@leaguer2975]

Just one thing : most part of engineer schools are public and free not private :)

[@laetitiad7181]

I studied in neither of these systems. I did a BTS. It's shorter studies (2 years) in a specific area. (mine was in tourism)

[@laetitiad7181]

I finished studying for too long now so I don't think I know enough to tell you about , but I'm sure you can find plenty information about it on the internet.

[@Laurent69ftm]

BTSs and DUTs are two-year technical degrees that you can do directly after high school. You learn skills specific to a work area and you can enter the workforce just after. (Or you can go on to study; after a BTS or DUT you can get a master's degree in 3 years, but not in a too theoretical field).

[@ibgh203]

Les grandes écoles are not private for the most, it's something about business school. Also, depending the grande ecole you're aiming, the classe prepartoire is not mandatory anymore. Sorts of "bridges" between formations exist, and thanks god because it has avoided me to live these 2 years of hell :)

[@phenixderubis]

There are also public Grandes Ecoles in France with low admission fees (higher than universities though) but definetly less than 3 thousands euros for the public schools. Of course there are private schools with super high prices like Epitech which is about 5000 euros a year. But if you take like INSA which is a public engineering school it is "only" 600 euros a year for example. This being said, I'd like to thank you Rosie because I think your videos are just awesome, full of happiness and it definetly warms my heart to watch your super great videos ! (not sure of this last sentence's grammar though...)

[@gounitas]

Again, I think it's really different between Paris and the province. Many "Grandes Ecoles" are located in Paris. Cac40 companies surely prefer to hire people who studied in these top schools, but they are also based in ... Paris. In the province, you'll often find only public universities, and middle-size companies (meaning most companies in the country) would be more eager to hire people who studied in what we call "BTS" or "IUT" (in high schools, after graduation), which are short studies (about two to three years), where you can learn more practical knowledge which allow you to be available quickly on the job market. But I do agree that people who study at university are more willing to work in research or in public companies. I personally studied in a public university for a total of 3 years (2 years english and 1 year economics) without any diploma in the end, due to a lack of motivation. And even without any university diploma, or any "Grandes Ecoles" mentioned on my CV, I managed to get a job, and then another

[@Miaina77]

Most of "Grandes Ecoles" are public and free. You are even paid to study in Polytechnique.

[@maximemcintoshpierre800]

Most are public yet few are free. You get paid in École Polytechnique because you technically are part of the army for 4 years. Apart from X and ENS, I can't think of any that's free.

[@Miaina77]

You're right. You can add ENA and Saint Cyr to the list, and Science-Po for poor student.

[@Miaina77]

INSA schools are NOT part of thé Grandes Écoles.

[@Laurent69ftm]

They are. As for public engineering schools in general, the fees are, on average: 600 euros a year if you don't have a scholarship, free if you do.

[@Abraccuda]

Miaina Ah oui les INSA n'ont pas le titre de Grandes Écoles d'ingénieur ? Je pensais que c'était le cas... reste que la sélection est assez sévère pour l'INSA, et qu'elles ont un très bon niveau !

[@Abraccuda]

Most of the "prépas" are public... so they are free (not really beacause "prépas" ask you register at the University in the case of you leave the cursus... but the cost of the University is about 130€ ~ 115£ ~ 150$)... and if you look the top 10 "prepas", 8 are public. Then, there is the "Grandes Écoles" -> Grandes Écoles d'Ingénieur wich deliver the diploma of ingenier (the best are publics too : Polytechnique, Mines, Ponts, Normal Sup, INSA, etc.) -> Écoles de Commerce (Buissness' school) the majority are private and expansive (HEC, ESSEC, etc.)

[@camembertdalembert6323]

huge mistake. Most of grandes écoles are public, not private, and free. Polytechnique, ENS, Les Mines, ENA, etc.

[@WinnieCesmondesbizarres]

I'm french and to me university is amazing

[@Martel_Clips]

actually, almost all engineering "grandes écoles" are state-funded and cost less the 1000€ a year, sometimes only the social security and file fee which are around 250€ if I remember well, I can't speak for business school as I never wanted to go there and didn't get any information about it in engineering, grandes écoles usually have partnerships with lots of companies while university often have none, the student life is really developed (the whole school is like a family) and there are way more internships (at least 2 sometimes 3 or more) while in university you only sometimes have one, also the teachers are often ex-engineers that know something about the industry while some university teachers have never worked outside the education system, also the teacher/student ratio is higher in "grandes écoles", on the other hand "grandes écoles" do not focus on research methodology like how to present a good bibliography TLDR: in engineering subject university->research, "grandes écoles"->industry (at masters degree) I did a prépa and actually doesn't regret having done it at all. those 2 years (3 for some) are really hard but worth it I think even the 45h week and the mock exam every Saturday morning, when everyone else is resting, are worth in the end because you get a really good self-discipline and work method and the 30-35h week in "grande école" seems like nothing the grading system makes lots of sense, I will try to explain how it works in most classes the test is made to be unfinishable for example graded on 72 points for 6 hours, you only get 4 hours to do it the best student (in every prepa there is a 170 IQ student or someone so hardworking they kill every test) gets 54 out of 72 then the teacher count that 54 is the best possible so 20/20 (standard grading in France is on 20) if you only got 35 your grade on 20 is 35*20/54=12.96 they sometimes apply a mathematical operator to the grades to push people away from the class average but not always, they didn't in my school so I can't explain it

[@Fuyu_ImpactTV]

In fact, « grandes écoles » are more about learning a job. For example, if you want to become a judge, you’ll have to learn law through university. Once you got your Master 1 or Master 2 degree (4 or 5 years in uni), you’ll then have to do a prépa in order to pass the exam for the Judges school. Same with attorneys. In fact, the difference between grandes écoles and universities (public and private universities are the same, private unis are just some more expensive catholic unis) is the selection (CV for unis or competition for grandes écoles), and by what you can learn and how you can learn it. As I said earlier, except maybe for doctors and therapists, grandes écoles exist in order to teach you a job, or at least the basis of this job, what is this job made of. There are grandes écoles that you take after uni, because you’ll need some knowledge you never had before. You need to go to uni to learn law before entering the entrance contest for judge and attorney grandes écoles because you never learn law before uni, so you need to know it. On the opposite, you already have the basis of mathematics and science after high school, so you only need two years of preparation. For other grandes écoles, like music ones (yes they exist, the Conservatoires Nationaux de Musique et de Danse or CNSMD), you’ll need to be trained from young age in order to enter the contest or even the prépa, because the educational system doesn’t interfere with that field. So, uni is more about research, theory, and grandes écoles are more about practicing. That’s why you don’t have law grandes écoles, but you don’t have judge universities. I mean, you never heard of a [insert a job] university, right? And you never heard of a [insert a random subject] grande école ? It’s always an ingeneer, attorney, judge, dancer, musician grande école, and always psychology, law, medicine, history, literature university.

[@blogbeatbebop5604]

For the particularly low grades in prepa: I don't know how it is for literary or economical prepa but scientific ones actually give you your real grade. Most tests are made so that they can't be finished in the time given (around 4 hours most times). So if you managed to get 20% of the test right, you get a 4 out of 20. Some prepa reajust your grade so the best gets a 20 and the rest of the class goes from there but if the head of the class is too far ahead then he might even get 21 or more out 20 with the adjusted grade. Grade readjustment are getting more and more common to avoid student depressions and suicides that tend to happen in prepa.

[@crymieze9003]

"Grandes Ecoles" ARE NOT PRIVATE for most of them ! She may talk about the Buisness schools but insteaf of a few ones, the top french "Grandes Ecoles" are engineering schools and they are public schools, you pay like 1 500 / 2 000€ a year maximum .

[@pimakpimak]

I really like your videos but this video was too one-sided. I'm in "classe préparatoire" to get into engineering Grande Écoles. And I felt like you were downgrading all the work we do and the learning gap between Grande Écoles and University. I've talked many times with friends who went to University to learn the same subjects, and they don't learn as much, I've learnt in 2 years more than my friend who has done 3 years of university. So comparing the two is impossible since they are two different systems. About the specificity of university, the choice to learn whatever you want, we have the same thing in Grande Écoles. In a nutshell, I would have preferred to have 2 guests, one from each system, in order to get both side of the subject. At the beginning, I thought I would show my American friends this video in order to let them understand how it works but I won't since it was depreciating my system.

[@azurman3]

Actually it does not even depend on the field, we do work more in classe préparatoire than in university, there is no comparison as regards the workload. That is our choice at the same time, we are to blame haha :)

[@Redgethechemist]

Lol. You think you work more because you paid a lot for your prépa and school, but it's just an illusion. If you want to succeed at the university, you should also provide a lot of personal work, but without the help of professors who will force you to endure Khôl exams every week. The failure rate during the 1st year of the university is really high as there are many students who subscribe at the university as they have no other options and yes, a lot of them party a lot hence the high failure rate. Starting from the second year, you will notice that there are many hard-working students. This speech about the supposed superiority of prépa is making me sick, you are just part of a self-conservation system that refuses to acknowledge that university education can be as good as grandes écoles. The good thing is that this system is disappearing as in the rest of the world, a university degree has more value and engineers in North America are just considered as overqualified technicians. Engineering schools don't prepare students to research, just to industrial applications.

[@pimakpimak]

Redgethechemist I respect your point of view. But to be fair, I didn't pay to go to prépa because it's free for everyone. In the meantime, when talking to recruiters, they are way more likely to choose a engineer who went through a prépa than someone from university. Yes I'm in the system and I don't want to disrespect university student because I know the working environment is very different. But you have to admit that having 4 to 5 hours a day of lesson 4 to 5 days a week is not as much as having 6 to 8 hours of lesson a day 6 days a week (Saturday morning only). And only regarding this timing, you must agree that whether or not our lessons are condensed. With more time, the number of subject worked is higher, or the subjects are deepened. Anyway, what I was asking for at the beginning was 2 people debating: one from each "side" because the title of the video is "Grande École vs Universités". So it would have been fair if both side were represented.

[@Redgethechemist]

I totally understand that you would have preferred a more balanced introduction of both systems and I know most ENSCs can be affordable as long as you (or more often your parents) fit with the income tax criteria but prépas are not free as far as I know, well, not when I was a student at least 15 years ago. But it's false to think that at the university we have a very light schedule, it may be true for literary or sociology departments, but in scientific studies, you have as well a heavy schedule with 7-8 hours a day and a lot of practice in lab classes and on my topic, chemistry, I saw that our engineer fellows were not as advanced as us in mechanisms and reactivity, I admit they had strong bases in general chemistry as they had to know it very well to pass the entry exam. We usually had no classes on saturdays, just a couple of times and it happened also that we had exams on saturday mornings. To my mind, these schools are just formatting people in order to fit in a box while people from university will need more space and freedom of action in their job. That's why many engineers now validate an MSc as well in order to be able to apply to research jobs and I just regret that they are often favored in their job hunt despite the same diploma. I could observe with my Ph.D fellows that the ones coming from engineering schools were not better than pure university students. Moreover, in chemistry at least, every ENS is attached to the chemistry department of the university.

[@heratcgo8317]

+Redgethechemist 1)They are two type of prepa (in science ) . Prepa which are already inside the school "prépa intégré" and "highscool prepa" . And yea a majority of prepa are and was free . Only "integrate prepa" in Private school aren't free (probably less than 5% of prepa student ) . 2) Prepa (exept integrate ) are more general because they don't prepare to one specific field . So yea it's will not be surprsing than a chemistry student in third years have more knowledge in this specific field than someone coming from prepa . 3)Prepa have 7 hours dedicated to exam per week ,and around 40 hours of lessons per week all the year , it's a fixed schedule like highschool. Schedule in universities are different you don't have 45/50 per week in average . 45/50 hours per week happen but you don't have this kind of schedule every week , that's the big difference . 4)Engineering School form to a job , it's less the case for university . It's not the same diploma , it's the same level(pretty different ) . And that's exactly why they are favored to job but i'm pretty sure an universtie studend will be more favored in research .

[@axel6269]

The competitive spirit in prépas is mostly a myth, in my experience. I can't speak for Parisian CPGEs which tend to have that reputation the most, but in reality, working on your own all the time is the easiest way to fail, because you're bound to hit walls when studying and you need someone who understands what you don't to help, and vice-versa. "Top-tier" students hang out with lower-ranked ones just fine and don't hesitate to help since they tend to have more free time. What students feel they're competing against is other lycées, and being part of a class which sent a high number of student to top schools is seen as a honor. Now first year of medical school, that's a WHOLE other story, and that's technically a university...

[@ChatonQuiMiaule]

Actually, most "grandes écoles" are public engineering schools. (And it is a tradition for students of these to affect utter contempt for the students of business schools.)

[@tulipe2063]

Après on peut intégrer les grandes écoles après une licence (université) et c'est de plus en plus le cas surtout les très grandes écoles qui sont très difficile à avoir après une prépa. Et l'avantage de l'université c'est que tu n'as pas besoin d'être le meilleur. J'ai fais prépa pendant 1 and et demi et j'ai du arrêter parce que je ne supportais plus la pression heureusement pour moi l'ingénierie ne fait pas partie de mes souhaits d'avenir, mais pour ce que ça intéresse la prépa est un véritable frein. Ce qui pour moi est un vrai problème.

[@paulinedumont9185]

Hi Rosie, thank you for that video trying to explain our very complex Education system. Being abroad myself I struggle a lot to explain how it works and my diploma. I'm impressed with the take that you have on that topic, you definitely nailed some parts of it !! But I have to agree with many other comments here. I regret that the video and your guest was too one-sided. The definition of Grandes Ecoles is very different between Business schools and Engineering schools. Engineering schools are mostly public schools that are not more expensive than Uni but are way more recognized than Uni. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I personally did a "prépa" and although it IS a lot of work and can seem to be like "just learn that and fit into the mold" it also pushed me and gave me such a strong basis of knowledge at a time when I wasn't ready to be self-directed and also when I had no idea what I wanted to do ! There's definitely a big social bias in the population in the Grandes Ecoles, but from my experience Grandes Ecoles are actually trying to break that silo because they know it's beneficial for everyone to have a bigger diversity of backgrounds and people : they're opening their doors to more and more Uni or IUT students, and have more and more partnerships with Uni so that students can finish their Master at Uni if they want to specialize in something the Ecoles cannot give them (yes it works also in the other way around !) I think my Grande Ecole taught me to question a lot of things I was seeing and learning and I had many very lively debates with friends after some classes. It's not just about parties and being all the same ;) Universities in France are unfortunately not very close to the private sector contrary to other countries, so it's true that Grandes Ecoles will definitely bring that to the table. Wow look at the size of that comment! If you make it to here I hope this has helped shade another light on the Grandes Ecoles (other than (stupid) managers who only want top 5 Business school graduates...)

[@rinpotatoalien759]

Ahah I got 0.5 and 2, and only studied and slept all day long (in prépa) but I didn't feel it was hell, it was pretty fun (and so, really, I meant it, interesting) I think the main difference between uni and grandes écoles it's the way you manage your work/study, but both are great and none is better than the other one x) Besides that's true for the great grandes écoles the "de la maison" thing and sometimes pretty same kind of population, but for small grandes écoles, (like mine at least) people come from anywhere (country or academic background) we have Chinese students, students who went through 2-3 years for professional diplomas, etc. and that's pretty cool.

[@margotcomte7237]

Je suis désolée mais je trouve que la vidéo est un peu réductrice parce qu'il n'y a pas seulement 2 choix avec d'un côté les grandes écoles privées et les universités. En fait il y a d'autres possibilités: à la sortie du lycée on peut aussi choisir de faire un BTS, un CAP ou même un IUT! Il y a aussi beaucoup de grandes écoles qui sont publiques mais c'est en effet plus compliqué d'y accéder ... Je pense aussi qu'il y a un peu le cliché des étudiants qui travaillent moins dur à l'université parce que la sélection à la fin du lycée est moins sévère, mais ça ne veut pas dire pour autant que les gens sont moins intelligents! J'espère que je n'ai pas dit n'importe quoi 😊 Sinon (après avoir été méchante) je voulais juste te dire que j'aime beaucoup ta chaîne, continue comme ça!

[@amandinelethily8882]

Waouh Madeline je suis jalouse de ton niveau d' anglais!! bravo à toi :)

[@ghislain8150]

"les grandes écoles de commerce(business)" are private but "les grandes écoles d'ingénieur(engineer)" are public but sometimes private like the university sometimes they can be private and there are also the BTS and DUT it's next to the university and grandes écoles

[@eisenjeisen6262]

Rose you are a trickster because you are superb in English !

[@Mymy-nd3gp]

For scientist and literary "Grandes Ecoles" it's actually free for most of the time! We have to pay only in economic "Grandes Ecoles". And there isn't competition between students in prépas (except for 2 or 3), I mean, time changed!

[@raavikapoor]

Really good info❤️

[@killianblois1821]

Super vidéo ! but be careful: with the Vidal Law, many universities might select their students in the future, so universities will change a lot in the next years, as well as the High School final exam. Sinon c'est super d'avoir une kiwi qui explique bien les spécificités françaises sans forcément que nous mêmes nous nous en rendions compte ! Bravo

[@ayana6895]

Il ne faut pas oublier de préciser que les domaines présents en grande école ne sont pas autant larges que les choix de filière à l'université. Par exemple je suis étudiante en philosophie, et c'est une discipline très universitaire. Il n'existe pas de grande école spécialisé en philosophie, il existe peut être des cursus où il y a cette discipline mais ce ne sera pas la seule comme la fac où j'en fais toute la journée...

[@librepenseur250]

Les grandes écoles ne sont pas nécessairement privés. Par exemple, Polytechnique, Insa, Ponts et chaussées, Mines, Saint-Cyr, sont publiques. "Grandes écoles" are not necessarly private at all. For example, Polytechnique, Insa, Ponts et chaussées, Mines, Saint-Cyr, are public.

[@davidberrin]

I think you didn’t understand what was a Grande Ecole... most of them are public and free also. Prepa is so hard that you’re sure that someone from Grande Ecole are the best + the most motivated... you cannot live 2-3 years working 12-18 hours a day 7 days a week if you’re not.

[@mariej.j4992]

je suis étudiante en France et il faut savoir que pour quelques domaines ont peu venir de l'université et travailler dans les compagnies privées. Un bon exemple sont les études de droits, tous les avocats et juristes sont obligés d'aller à l'universités, les écoles de droit privées sont interdites !

[@Pierric556]

Marie J.J ouais pareil en médecine/pharmacie si tu veux travailler pour des laboratoires pharmaceutiques.

[@vaeaschweig7296]

Exacte j'allais faire le même commentaire ! cest sur que pour le commerce il faut mieux faire une prépa à Stanislas suivi de HEC (là tes sur d'avoir un job à la sortie et bien payé) qu'une fac de commerce. mais pour pleins d'autres domaine la fac est aussi bien voir mieux voir même tu n'as que la fac. Et oui le droit et la médecine/pharmacie en font parties. Oui il y a des meilleures facs que d autres mais tu n'as pas la même pression que dans les grandes écoles. Pour devenir un grand chirurgien ou avocat ou magistrat tu as forcément été à l'université alors que pour être un as en commerce t'as plus de chance si tu as un fait une grande école (même si y'a une part de talent et que certains de moins bonnes écoles y arrivent car ils sont très doués). Après c'est plus dur de se démarquer. En 1ere année de droit par exemple (je prends cet exemple car ce sont les études que je fais) tu es avec pleins de gens dont la moitié nestpas motivé là par défaut ou n'y arrivons pas. Alors qu'en prépa tu es direct avec des gens motivés dans une ambiance studieuse. C'est plus dur de réussir à la fac à cause de l'ambiance moins studieuse et il faut se démarquer. Pas besoin de se démarquer quand t'as fait HEC vu que c'est déjà un super truc. Par contre qujand t'as fait pharmacie et que tu veux continuer pour travailler dans un laboratoire là il faut te démarquer. Et pourquoi pas enchaîner avec une école ensuite. (en droit tu as bien les écoles d'avocats après l'université). il y a moins de moyens dans les université c'est sur mais plus de diversité. Pour il y a pas vraiment Universités contre grandes écoles. Tout dépend de ce qu'on a envie de faire. et on sait que selon nos envie le meilleur parcours c'est soit la fac (médecine droit etc) soit une grande école (ingénieur commerce). yen a pas de meilleur que l'autre ça dépend de ce qu'on veut faire. Il y a des parcours moins bien c'est sur mais il n'y a pas de "les grandes écoles c'est mieux que l'université" ou l'inverse. On ne peut pas dire ça en général ça dépend vraiment de chaque domaine.

[@JadaKingdom971]

C'est vrai les diplôme délivré par les écoles de commerces sont adossé à ceux de l'université pour être reconnu par l'état. Bachelor ou MSc ne sont pas des diplômes reconnus ici.

[@MrMusic55123]

MiM (master in management) which is not prestigious in USA is equivalent of grande ecole de commerce

[@helenel8561]

You forgot to mention than in some fields such as law or medicine, there are no Grandes Ecoles, and the University formation is prestigious just as much as Engineering or Business Grandes Ecoles for example.

[@kynesine]

Il y a aussi des systèmes intermédiaires, comme les ENS, qui comme les grandes écoles sont sélectives dès l’entrée (prepa généralement) mais sont publiques et appartiennent au système universitaire (UE en commun avec d’autres formations d’une université affiliée, etc). Généralement, les grandes écoles sont sélectives à l’entrée (concours, ...). Alors que les universités sont sélectives à la fin : masters plus sélectifs que licences, poursuite en thèse, ...

[@christianbarnay2499]

Grandes Écoles for Commercial, Public Relations, Human Resources and Communications studies are really a separate world from the rest of the education system. This sector is plagued with a habit of abusing internships. It's not rare for students in that domain to repeat internships for several years before they finally get a real job contract. As others have mentioned in the comments it's very different with Grandes Écoles for Science studies. Science Grandes Écoles are public. All the hard work in Classes Préparatoires is about acquiring a critical mindset to analyze a situation and find good solutions efficiently. Then the 3 years inside the Grande École itself are more about refining those skills and specializing in certain areas. Then you have the mandatory internship and usually get your first real job immediately after. The Classe Préparatoire is very competitive because of the selection but once you're in the Grande École it's much more friendly we help each other a lot and have fun together.

[@midorishiwa]

Grandes écoles are not private, most of them are public

[@susanmathis1682]

My daughter and I think your hair is so pretty in this video.

[@dedel9973]

Hi, I love your videos but on this one I just disagree with almost everything your friend said. I think that's juste stereotypes people from university have. But the fact is that all Grandes Ecoles are not private (we pay the same amount than for university) and we don't learn the same things (we learn more in Grandes Ecoles) and we don't work and learn the same way! An for working life it is just about qualification (does it exist in english?). In Grande Ecoles you are not prepared to do the same job as in university. But I love your other videos and things you notice about french people :)

[@dedel9973]

Not Even French Actually I didn't but almost all my friends are at the university and I also have a friend who were in a Grande Ecole but gave up and went to the university. I saw him this week and we talked about the differences that's why I wrote this when I saw your video ;)

[@dedel9973]

Not Even French (It's my 2nd year in a Grande Ecole)

[@Lizzu]

I hope you exams went well and if it's not done yet I say M*rde. I wanted to know if you had to have the TOEIC in order to receive your title ? In the school i worked they had to do it in 2nd year.

[@dedel9973]

Maelyra thank you ! Yes, you can't have your diploma without TOEIC that's the same thing in every ingeneer school and i think it's also true for other Grandes Ecoles ;)

[@alixnc9948]

Moi je suis contente j'ai réussis à éviter le manque d’expérience de la Fac et la compétition des grandes écoles (et le coût aussi) ! Parce que oui il n'y pas que ces deux possibilités après tout, j'ai fais un BTS (avec des stages donc) et maintenant je suis en cours dans le centre de formation de la CCI en alternance, il existe beaucoup d'autres écoles et centres de formation qui sont reconnus et ne font pour autant pas partie des Grandes Ecoles ! Si je devais conseiller une seule chose à des futurs étudiants c'est l'alternance ! C'est juste un procédé de formation extrêmement enrichissant et qui te fait rentrer dans la vie active tout en douceur ! Je trouve que toutes les formations devrait reprendre ce modèle.

[@Miaina77]

L'important est que vous soyez satisfaite de votre vie. Tous les parcours peuvent apporter satisfaction et épanouissement. Quant à l'alternance, c'est une voie trop peu développée en France (car considérée par la classe dirigeante comme une voie d'échec).

[@nco1970]

I like your videos but I find a few inaccuracies with this one. The most important thing is that not all fields of studies have the split universities versus Grandes Ecoles (medicine school for example, psychology,...) and you are forgetting a very important actor: the IUT. Small / medium companies usually don't hire Grandes Ecoles graduates. I understand that you and your guest are mainly acquainted with the Business Schools. There are many differences between them and the scientific Grandes Ecoles. The main one is that for sciences they are mostly public schools. The tuition is strictly the same as for public universities. In some of them, you are even paid a monthly stipend in exchange for committing to work for the State during a few years.

[@EthelBH]

You're not wrong but you focus mainly on the Grandes Ecoles we call écoles de commerce, because when it comes to engineering schools, you don't have to pay for most of them. As for disciplines like litterature, sociology, history, philosophy and so on, most classes préparatoires are for the ENS, which is a school that pays you to study if you manage to get in, because you're considered a researcher. Also, having doing both prépa and university, I can tell the things you learn and mostly, the way you learn them and are evaluated on them are not exactly the same. They do not focus on the same things and abilities. I won't go as far as telling which one is the better, but in university, being in a big one gives you access to more known and specialized professors most of the time, and I think the name of the university you want to is also important when you want to get a job, although maybe not to the same level of the grandes écoles. Rereading this, I feel like I'm not clear at all but whatever.

[@mcflypbalexolas1580]

Best grandes ecoles are public not private: ENS, Mines, X,Centrale,supelec. This video is very partial and wrong.

[@Laurent69ftm]

Yes, and not only the ones you mentioned. Most grandes écoles, except business schools, are public. The 50 most prestigious are all public and some of them pay their students.

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Hello guys, please bear in mind that this is not true for international students, they have to pay a lot to go to French Grandes Ecoles and I'm talking about polytechnique for instance! Sorry for the misunderstanding :)

[@Laurent69ftm]

Polytechnique?? Are you sure that it's not their other university (abroad) that asks them to pay? For a regular public engineering school, foreigners don't have to pay and they can have a scholarship (to pay the rent+food) like French students. Or maybe they're doing a private "Mastère spécialisé"? Something optional

[@TheMagicMadeline]

Yes I am, students who do not have the French nationality do not have the same status at Polytechnique so they have to pay and they don't have a salary like French students. And I am not talking about the new Mastères spécialisés and Bachelors (since 2016). I can bring you a real-life example if you want haha :) Again sorry for the misunderstanding!

[@anonymouspersondiscreetlyt2359]

It depends on which nationality (at least in the grande école INSA at which I am), some pay as much as the French students, which is as much as university

[@best_parapluie]

What you say is true, but you're talking about business grandes écoles, it's not the case for scientific grande ecole, the prepa is the same, but everithing else is the opposite (private, expensive...)

[@florianandre6891]

I would just like to add a thing : in fact classes prépa (before grandes écoles) takes place in a high school and it’s the same price as a year at University, then most of engineering Grandes Écoles are in fact public and so it’s the same price as university, event the most prestigious like Polytechnique, Mines, Centrale or ENS(~300€, it used to be for everybody but thanks to Macron the 1st from next year it will only be for UE citizen, for non UE citizen classes prépa, engineering Grandes Ecoles and University will be theoretically at ~3000€, but some Universities won’t apply this augmentation), but for business Grande Écoles it’s a bit different, some are public and so it’s the same price as University, but a lot of them are private and cost a lot (~8000€ a year).

[@florianandre6891]

Some of them even pay their student (yes you dit hear it) x’) For instance Polytechnique (the most prestigious engineering school) and ENS (the most prestigious research school) pay their student ~800€/month, in exchange their swear to work for the state in the next 10 years after the beginning of their training (so 6 years after the end) but in fact Polytechniciens are so renowned as engineers in France (and can earn so much money ...) that most of the time they are hired before the end of their training and their new company redeem what’s they owe to the state.

[@florianandre6891]

And there are also ‘big’ classes prépa (Louis le grand, Henry IV, le Parc, etc) ans smaller ones, there is also a selection to enter in a classe prépa, but at the end of the classes prépa you enter in a grande école through a competitive exam so even if you are from a ´small’ classe prépa, you can go in the biggest Grandes Ecoles. And also big classes prépa are a nightmare. I can witness. But there is a lot of party in Grandes Ecoles. That’s how people in classes prépa stay motivated x’)

[@arixfurette7310]

"3000€" yeap but I'm in a almost-cheap school and I pay 5500€ a year

[@Rodolphegeorgealain]

well i just wanted to pointed out that about university selection... well it's about to change...

[@Rodolphegeorgealain]

Well i do think it's a good knews, because before people were selected randomly and i think it was unfair to those who work hard. And also because most of the time people who don't know what to do choose university by default... But it doesn't mean it's the best choice for them ! So (in my opinion) it's a waste of time, potential and money for our country. Selecting people who knows what they want to do, that are motivated is both fair and also a good investment of the governement money. However i do think that the real problem is in the fact that our educationnal system ( before the baccalauréat) isn't very helpfull ... (i will use french now cauz i don't know how to explain it in english ^^ ) Il n'aide pas assez, voir pas du tout, les élèves à trouver leur voie. Résultat beaucoup de jeune ne savent pas ce qu'ils veulent faire une fois qu'ils ont le BAC en poche. Je pense donc que l'Etat doit s'investir ici et ne pas gacher les chances de ceux qui savent quelle voie ils ont choisie... (i hope i've been clear enough? if not just tell i'll try my best ^^ )

[@Tititesouris]

I think it's terrible news. People say that it's better to select when entering so that you don't end up doing something you don't do well at. But if someone chooses to do that, who are we to judge them for what they could and could not do. If they realise they were wrong and decide to change to a different school then I wouldn't say they wasted a year or two, they have still learned about themselves and the subjects they've studied. People will say that students won't know what they want to do, so we should choose for them by testing what they're already good at. This is a terrible way of thinking that leads to social reproduction (Kids from low socio-economic backgrounds end up doing precarious, low-income jobs, and kids from high socio-economic backgrounds end up doing stable, high-income jobs). What we should do instead is invest more in accompanying students during high school. Not to tell them what is best for them, that is for THEM, and only them to decide, but to make sure everyone understands exactly what options are available to them and what they lead to. People say that the selection was already occurring, but people were picked randomly. And that is true, the problem has been creeping its way in for years, but no significant investment was made to try to fix it. We knew how many people were born 18 years ago, we knew exactly how much we needed, and we did nothing. Also, if there is really no alternative to selection, then I think random is better. Because random ensures that everyone, no matter their socio-economic belonging gets the same chance of success. People say it's a waste of public spending, and these people will usually think that a government is supposed to be run like a business, I think that's completely wrong. Public money should be spent on making sure every human being gets a fair shot at life and support whenever they need it, it isn't meant to be given away to private companies, without even have guarantees they will create jobs. Just by removing the ISF, the government is cutting 4 billion euros from the richest people's taxes. Those 4 billions could have been used to train and hire more professors and build more classes and universities. What irritates me the most is the pretentiousness with which this government is passing these laws. They are pretending to give students more chances, but they are removing their power to choose the path they want to take. A good example of that is the new platform ParcourSup to pick your university choices. Before, you could order your choices so that you always had a shot at your favourite school, and if they didn't accept you, you would go to your next-best choice. Now, there is no order, so you will be placed wherever the people deciding want you to go. They are reducing students to aspirationless resources that need to be allocated for best optimisation. They are asking high school teacher to write down in a file whether they see the student fit for a particular study. What if the teacher doesn't think highly of you? Well you're toast. They are asking universities to write down in a file what requirements need to be met to enter. How do you even define a requirement like this? What tests can attest of that? You're coming here to learn, not to prove you already know something! Yes you need some basic knowledge, but that's exactly what the Bac was doing! It looks like I went on a bit of a rant, but this reform is going against everything that is dear to social equality and I'm sick people who have never had to struggle in life making it look like something it isn't. Thanks for the video, as always very well thought through!

[@Rodolphegeorgealain]

well... since we won't argue about this on youtube i'll be short... i don't agree with your first argument cauz u seem to forget those who know extly what they want to do but cannot because lazy Kevin had been chosen instead... i agree with ur second argument however. I do think that our system is running toward the wall because there are more and more people that don't know what they wanted to do. Also i think that considering randomness as a tool to preserv our social system isn't even representativ of what socialism is (because it's carring of every body and not just telling them to "deal with it ! it's randomness" ) Plus if student can't even try to stay calm or quiet in a classroom or speak to there teacher respectfully or just behave well... then i think writing fil about a student is a good thing... Despite every thing u can say education and culture is very accessible here in France so using the "am poor" thing doesn't work. Also am not studying in very high school or university and my mother is a social worker (that work with poor people). I think that wasting the potential of both higher and lower categorie of population isn't the way to go. And that we should focus on what people want and can do... not some random choice like it was before.

[@Tititesouris]

Avorang Fix I think you missed my point. I don't want people to be selected, whether it be randomly or not. But until the government does something about it, classrooms don't grow on trees, and so it's best to let randomness pick students so we don't start, or rather continue, breeding elites. You might disagree with me that elites are a bad thing, but as a humanist socialist, I think they are.

[@Rodolphegeorgealain]

i would really like to talk about it with u... it might be intersting... however... somewhere else than on youtube ^^ "am not even French" may be upset with this talk :D sorry

[@uniqueglow9541]

Here's some news for anyone interested.. The French educational system in general dates back to more than 230 years ago and needs to be changed and reformed. Anyone who follows this system (whether it is the grandes écoles or the university) with its general structure and age requirements (i.e. entering the university after the age of 18) and succeeds in it, is neither ready nor prepared nor qualified to participate in the human mission to planet Mars, or in any other mission to another planet. This observation applies to other countries where similar education systems are implemented.

[@Cheers.-]

Grandes Ecoles are not necessarily private ! ! The vast majority of engineering school are public and cost 600€ a year ! And the most prestigious ones are free

[@kaotheraissa414]

I’m really trying to understand the difference between M1 and M2, why are masters 2 years long in France? :(

[@Unrealisednostalgia]

As someone who went to NEOMA business school for an exchange: I have never seen such a low level of standards or quality of students. I don't recommend it to anyone unless their only goal is to live in France.

[@yannickvallenet3786]

Most of the grandes ecoles are public and free like university For the top scientific one, you have to work ten years for the state after your studies...