Grandes écoles: France's elite-making machines

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FRENCH CONNECTIONS - Thurs. 20.10.16: Outside of France's university system, there's a network of prestigious, highly specialized institutions. Notoriously hard to get into, these "grandes écoles" are seen as the crème de la crème in terms of higher education, training tomorrow's business and political elite and pretty much guaranteeing a job for life for those lucky enough to get in. But are these grandes écoles as meritocratic as they say they are?
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[@elbertmkizy7086]

Funny how they quickly switch accent whenever they say French words.

[@khadijafayyaz6184]

Elbert M'KIZY trop vrai

[@camullen42]

Y'mean, like, they pronounce it right?

[@bielivix]

Yep they do. (Im French ^^)

[@TheGranti7a]

Elbert M'KIZY ?

[@bellefemme87]

Impressive, I would say!

[@pleng6678]

Here are the top French Grandes Écoles : Engineering : Polytechnique (l’X) Business : HEC Politics : Sciences Po Paris Research : École Normale Supérieure Ulm (Normale Sup) Civil service : l’ENA (which was closed as promised by President Macron following accusations of elitism) Military : Saint-Cyr (École spéciale militaire de Saint-Cyr) In addition to that, some universities are regarded as number one in fields in which no Grande Écoles exist. Law: Panthéon Assas Université Medicine: Sorbonne Université

[@mrmrjims3865]

Mines Paris est plus difficle a avoir que Polytechnique, surtout pout les etrangers

[@pleng6678]

@@mrmrjims3865 Mais l’X est tout de même la plus prestigieuse

[@mrmrjims3865]

@@pleng6678 si tu reussis mines Paris tu reussiras X aussi et pas l'inverse

[@pleng6678]

@@mrmrjims3865 Okay mais jamais vu quelqu’un qui rechignerait l’X face aux Mines. Et puis dans le classement professionnel réalisé par les Mines d’ailleurs, l’X est bien devant 😂

[@pleng6678]

@@mrmrjims3865 euh okay?

[@absoleet]

Its probably the same in the US with Ivy League institutions and their exclusive fraternity clubs.

[@musafawundu6718]

The influence that the Grandes Ecole have on the French State and the governance and direction of the French Nation State is MUCH greater than that of Ivy Leagues. France is run by a network of politicians, civil service cadre (bureaucrats), and high ranking business leaders from a number of prominent enterprises. Note that French private businesses mostly have strong links with the state, even if or when they are nominally private. The bureaucrats in France have much more influence in the governance of France than do various career bureaucrats in US Federal Departments and Agencies. The word bureaucrat in French, that is fonctionnaire, does not have the same pejorative meaning that it does in the United Stares. Bureaucrats formulate and implement most of the legislation that is ratified by the French National Legislature into Law. And also former bureaucrats often go on to be ranking ministers, business leaders, and also guess what, Presidents of France itself. And most of the high ranking ones come from just a few of the Grandes Ecole.

[@maxkick7656]

I study at Sciences Po Paris and couldn’t agree more. We don’t think out of the box here at all. Not one second.

[@yalmuzique]

FYI, HEC is ranked number one business school in the world, but my favorite one is l'X school (polytechnic engineering school) where one gets an excellent mathematical training and where one also has freedom to choose his or her curriculum.

[@doneyhon4227]

When it comes to Math, nothing comes close to ENS Cachan...

[@yalmuzique]

Doney Hon I guess you are from ENS Cachan :) To the best of my knowledge, ENS ULM is more specialized in pure math, whereas ENS Cachan is more specialized in applied maths. This is why most Fields medal winners in France come from ENS ULM.

[@doneyhon4227]

I wanted to find a school that compares to Polytechnique in terms of maths. Polytechnique does very few pure math... hence ENS Cachan. Of course ENS ULM is waaaaaaaay better than ENS Cachan when it comes to fundamental mathematics, but it's only one dimension of mathematics. BTW, I was a HEC student. I don't care about your rivalities.

[@yalmuzique]

Doney Hon It was not about rivalry but more about curriculum, quality of teachings as well as the kind of job opportunities you get once you finish your studies. All les Grandes écoles are actually Great, but when I said that I preferred l'X, it was just a personal opinion, other people might prefer other schools or University, and I would be fine with it as well :)

[@patrickmcshane7658]

Is this way France leads the world in business, engineering, science and everything else?

[@charlesdang4670]

Okay, you will have to do an update on this topic now... :)

[@laurelabouffe]

Nothing has changed .

[@LeAstrax]

@@laurelabouffe ENA was closed

[@laurelabouffe]

@@LeAstrax They changed the name but it's the same school, the same system. So it's useless.

[@winter9753]

Thinking only about these schools when talking about Grandes Ecoles is a mistake, there are over 200 just for engineering schools and most of them are more connected to "real life" than any University.

[@JuanGarcia-hm7ux]

You’re the best news I amazing English and French brilliant

[@hoanganh3426]

C est trop bien regarder ca pour s entrainer en anglais ( je suis totalement hors sujet je sais ptdrrr)

[@mirajanestrau1595]

Je le fais aussi !!!!

[@Rayschall1]

Wow1 It's just like Japanese, same problem with Elite universities and they lack reality, but just big pride!

[@user-gx3go3ee7g]

Furthermore selfish itself. Only me centerism.

[@musafawundu6718]

More so than even Japan. Believe it. Todai and Kyodai together in Japan do not have the same influence as ENA has in France.

[@kevin_menon]

The main drawback with this system is that in France you diploma follows you all your life! I have been self-teaching computer science for the past 5 years after a BSc in Business but since I don't have a diploma it's difficult! And many big french companies only want a bac +5 from grande école. But a new technocratic elite that doesn't give a damn of the establishment is taking over positions in the higher ranks, espacially in IT

[@deborahquinot5782]

"power stays in the upper class", omg what a reduction and shortcut... I come from a 5children family, without money. This is why classes préparatoires are important: I could study 7 years without buying my studies, with my work and my "non-life". I wanted to find a nice video to explain my studies but your video has too many personal inputs..

[@koensmits6825]

I'm in a french grande ecole and i can tell you it is very superficial. It has a good name but the level is actually not that high and my dutch university was harder. France is really faded glory

[@ahmedwaheed7584]

Can international study apply to this institute?.. for a post graduate study in engineering

[@aminaz1778]

How about saint Cyr

[@ousou78]

200+ Grandes écoles but only around 25 truly aknowledged by the State (for Buisness Schools). For those school sometimes you don't even have to pass a test so you are litterally paying your degree From a current University student in Economy who used to be in "classes préparatoires aux grandes écoles de commerce" who try again to enter in the selectiv Grandes écoles because of how awfull (not easier) the University system was to me.

[@aymericst-louis-gabriel8314]

Les grandes ecoles or 'Why france evolves slowly'

[@patrickmcshane7658]

Aymeric St-Louis-Gabriel great point.

[@martino6205]

Must have influenced the Russians. Russia has a similar situation, universities and separate institutes.

[@peteradaniel]

What France influence Russia!!?! Never! Haven’t you read War and Peace?

[@patrickmcshane7658]

Sounds like a trekie convention.

[@guillaumegiroux9425]

Si au moins les performances des finissants à l'international pouvaient être à la hauteur de leur élitisme et leur croyance de supériorité extrême...

[@nvwsMal]

Laisse moi deviner tu croupis à la Fac? AH le seum...(Love from prepa..)

[@mouton6496]

MAL je partage son avis et je suis sorti d'une grande ecole.Quand auc fac certaines sont mieux cotées que les meilleurs ecoles :)

[@apo75018]

MAL "gngngn je suis meilleur que vous je vais gagner 3k de plus par mois, parce que je le mérite hhhhhhhhhhhhh"

[@melben7934]

Peace les gars ^^

[@rockymode1841]

"love from prepa" attend chérie t pas encore entré dans une grande école

[@adriancardenas7563]

The name sounds like a meme reference

[@Dr.Mystic9]

Le prestige de la France 🇫🇷🇫🇷

[@patrickmcshane7658]

sounds like an old Star trek joke, how do Trekkies reproduce, conventions.

[@MW-vg9dn]

Yes "it paves a golden career for you afterwards" regardless of how incompetent you really are. I worked for a French company, no matter what I did I was never promoted, but a guy from a Grande ecole who sucked at his job got promoted to a managerial role within months regardless. On top of that ridiculously high taxes, regulations, restrictions and bureaucracy. Not sure why any self-respecting skilled person would put up with this. I left France and my career took off, I was finally properly appreciated, I'm very happy I ditched that country. Only the incompetent and lazy stay in France, and the privileged elite who rule them.

[@antoineruch9913]

That's actually the biggest flaw in our educational system. I am sorry that you had a bad experience of my country. Although saying that we are all lazy and incompetent is a bit harsh. Our engineering schools are way more meritocratic. We also need to face the issue of foreign diploma's value, which sometimes are not recognised because of simple ignorance. Companies here also tend to attach to much importance to this piece of paper, and not enough to personnal level skills. I am glad that you could make it outside of our country though.

[@MW-vg9dn]

@@antoineruch9913 Yes, I'm sorry, I got carried away with frustration. I still have a weak spot the French people and France, and I'm grateful for the way France have changed me.

[@antoineruch9913]

@@MW-vg9dn No hard feelings. I wish you the very best. :)

[@basedkaiser5352]

Glad we got rid of your punkass !

[@basedkaiser5352]

F

[@nandikamogha]

Sara you have beautiful blue eyes, like the ocean. Is it sara actually?

[@patrickmcshane7658]

FFF Fancy French Fu...

[@xyz987123abc]

The whole concept is silly today. If a student truly wants to learn and be successful it is so friggin easy today. Master reading and basic math, no choice. Then spend a year reading every book in the local, state and national libraries on said topic to become an expert on the theory behind whatever and then switch to online courses for 6 months and finally with all of that exposure one should be able to find a mentor and learn the real world stuff the elite schools don't teach. As the old saying goes when a student is truly ready the teacher(s) will appear.

[@patrickmcshane7658]

Macron went to le gran ecole.

[@mirajanestrau1595]

He failed twice to the ENS but was accepted after in Sciences Po and the ENA :)