French Friday: Are the Political Parties Trading Places?

[@JustClaude13]

As a Republican I've always supported moral integrity. As a result I've never been able to vote for someone who boasts about being a living embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins. I also believe in the right of self determination and self defense. It's a tragic thing when a viable child is killed for convenience; but when a child has already died, or when continuing a pregnancy endangers a woman's life or her ability to carry children, she should have the absolute right to seek whatever treatment she needs. The states that made necessary medical treatment illegal, and tried to punish women who want to travel to places that offer such services, should have been slapped down, with an emergency ruling from the Supreme Court to defend the rights of the individual over the power of the state.

[@lisacawyer6896]

Which the Supreme Court can do, because the Constitution guarantees the right to life (e.g. ectopic pregnancy), and also gives the Federal Government the right to regulate interstate commerce.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@lisacawyer6896expansive readings of the commerce clause and dormant commerce clause are a major problem for the tenth amendment. Politics as to which is winning at the moment, but federalism is one of the fundamental struggles of the American system. Some is good (a federal military, for example) but how much? Sure, when the people I like are in power I want all the federalism I can get, but sometimes in democracy the other guy (or gal!) wins.

[@krakken-]

The problem for the Republican Party, even before Trump, was that it was only anti-abortion, and never pro life. The policies David is advocating for that support moms were explicitly rejected by the GOP. So, it is not surprising that this is where we are.

[@binki1975]

Yes, no support after birth

[@stephenboyington630]

The 'I ain't gonna give those people a dime!' thread runs deep.

[@amandascharf3870]

100%. One side of the mouth is saying "pro-life" and the other side is saying "you don't deserve support." And the main theme is "stay away from my dollar bills."

[@batmanop9254]

​@@michaelward7051Europe has public healthcare. Europe has paid maternity leave. There's a reason that European countries top the global lists related to happiness and quality of life and that America doesn't. Even if we accept your asinine premise that Trump's words can actually be trusted, we don't have the same support systems that Europe does. Those support systems do far more to reduce abortions than merely making them illegal would do.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@michaelward7051 Also, abortion isn't an issue of this election. It's the issue of this election. Drumpf will do what his backers want him to do. They won't give up on their decades long crusade for a national abortion ban just because their useful idiot may have gotten cold feet at the last minute. These people are much smarter than Drumpf is. They'll get him to sign whatever comes to his desk that they want him to sign, one way or another.

[@ht71229]

16:46 FYI, long before the Lifeway survey in 2018, lots of people outside the church could see that ProLife really wasn't that high of a priority for many ppl in the church who said it was. Unfortunately, that has been much of the church's public witness for decades -- ProLife as a cudgel for economic policies that often oppose life outside of the womb.

[@Anabee3]

I'm 100% anti-abortion. No excuses bc I know our 3rce Holy God makes it clear that he knits us together in our mothers wombs & mrdr is sin. That said- I would never vote for Trumps pro-abortion law bc of the way its written. It's another one of those laws that has stuff attached to it that it OUGHT NOT, or ATLEAST is so vague that, as you know, drs don't want to take any chances. EG: The removal of a baby who's alrdy deceased in the womb. That's NOT abortion! And I WILL NOT vote against that. "Abortion" should have its own separate& exclusive definition. & Have its own medical coding & billing. And have NOTHING ELSE attached to it/under the same umbrella.

[@ht71229]

Thanks for pointing out that the deficit actually increased dramatically during the Trump administration, that the GOP is now pro choice/ no longer pro life and the GOP has opposed welfare reform.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The tax cuts that would “pay for themselves” didn’t. He’s making the same promise again.

[@liav4102]

I’d like to see a lot more people talking about how Trump‘s solution to acute economic hardship was a universal basic income, which is Remely socialist. I’m not saying that it was the wrong choice in the pandemic, but I don’t think he should be getting a lot of votes based just on oh he’ll make things more affordable because last time he did that it was just to give away money to people who couldn’t afford things.

[@lisacawyer6896]

Trump's candidacy initially forced me to choose between democracy and the pro-life cause. The pro-life cause was being held hostage to support totalitarianism. Now that the pro-life position no longer helps the cause of totalitarianism, it is being tossed aside by Trump/Vance. So the choice is even easier now. Jan 6th, Trump’s insistance on criminal immunity, Trump’s love of dictators, his promise to be a dictator on day 1, his hints about a third term, his promise to Christians that they will not need to vote again after this year, the GOP's adoration of Erdogan, Trump’s choice of Vance who endorses his election denial, and who endorsed the book "Unhumans" which openly advocates a Franco-like dictatorship, his suggestion that Trump follow Andrew Jackson's example of ignoring court orders when he implemented the Trail of Tears.. ...red flag after red flag.

[@robbower5489]

Find yourself a Cherokee and move them in with you

[@batmanop9254]

​@@robbower5489 I'm sure she'll get right on that after you adopt some babies that would have been aborted.

[@lisacawyer6896]

@robbower5489 I am part Cherokee, so already done. By the way, racism is also a denial of Imago Dei.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@lisacawyer6896 it's amazing how often "anti-woke" people are just bigots.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 pro life Christians adopt more than any other demographic

[@DM_Andy]

47:00 interesting discussion on trans rights. Skye and David have this really odd blind spot to not see that trans rights is the mirror image of their pro-life position. Pro-life isn't the popular position but it is in their point of view the morally correct position. For people who believe that trans people have equal rights to the rest of humanity, it might not be popular but it's still the morally correct position. Neither Skye or David would throw the pro-life position in the garbage because it's unpopular and they shouldn't. They shouldn't expect trans right supporters to do what they wouldn't.

[@cgpcgp3239]

The trans issues are medical transitioning children. Trans women in women’s sports, prisons, and other spaces. Reporting crimes according to sex. Freedom to express sex is binary. Trans people should have right to housing, employment, dress as they like, freedom expression.

[@Anya54321]

Yes! i did not enjoy the talk on trans to be fair…I did not agree with any point that they made and I wonder if they even know any actual trans people. You are right, it is the morally correct position. They have a right to exist. 🏳️‍⚧️

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@Anya54321from a pragmatic standpoint it does show what conservatives will pivot to after abandoning the pro-life movement though. Trans people threaten the social order. If men are meant to rule and women are meant to serve, what happens when someone stops being their assigned social role? That’s a revolution against the very fabric of society and for those who have built their identity based on “knowing their place” it’s terrifying.

[@DM_Andy]

By the way, I didn't mean to suggest that there aren't people who are both pro-life and trans-rights even if socially that might be quite difficult. There's a logical position of "all life is sacred" which means that you want to take actions to reduce the abortion rate and also steps to reduce the suicide rate of trans teenagers.

[@debidallacosta5736]

Thank you so much for this comment! As a parent of a nonbinary child on puberty blockers, we are currently making safety plans for our family to have to leave the country should H/W not win. Our child and our family’s safety and freedom will be at risk according to Proj 25. Our child was not influenced by media or peers; we saw from a very early age that they did not fit a normal gender stereotype. They spent a lot of time, through therapy and personal processing, to come to where they are. We are blessed to be in a loving church, school, and city environment, but we fear what a R election could hold for their future. I am so weary of their mere existence being used as a platform to beat down on people…all while those doing the beating don’t notice that they are really being taken advantage of by those in power.

[@Cyrribrae]

After hearing that David endorsed Kamala, this was the forum in which I've been waiting to hear him discuss it in.

[@WillNelson73]

He had endorsed Biden a couple of months prior so it wasn’t a huge shock

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@WillNelson73white evangelical conservatives stereotypically would have an issue with a non-white non-male president, so it’s not a guarantee. French is pretty atypical of that crowd though (at least the ones that speak in public).

[@WillNelson73]

@@Justanotherconsumer I’m not following. All I was saying is that it wasn’t a shock (at least to me) that David French endorsed Kamala given that he had previously endorsed Biden a month or so before that. It wasn’t because Biden is white or that Kamala is a woman of color.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@WillNelson73for many in that cultural group, even if they won’t publicly admit it, it’s a real issue. Trump got elected in part as a backlash to Obama’s presidency specifically because of dog whistles like birtherism - without pandering about identity Trump wouldn’t have gotten started as a candidate. Plenty also trotting out Paul’s comment about not letting women have authority over a man; though Thatcher really broke a lot of ceilings on that - England, for all the faults, has done wonders with the history of Queens Victoria and Elizabeth being some of the peaks of English rule.

[@batmanop9254]

Instead of defunding the police, we need to help them out by investing in social programs, education, workplaces, and infrastructure. By doing that, we could address the root causes of crime. Over time, criminal activity would be reduced and they would be kept safer and with a lighter workload. Perhaps some of them could then volunteer to help in related fields when there wouldn't be as much of a need for them.

[@adamrshields]

Skye continues to misrepresent the defund the police. David did here too but has in other places at least acknowledged the underlying reality.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@adamrshields most people have no idea what it is in the first place.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@batmanop9254that they uncritically adopt the language and framing of far right talking points is problematic.

[@batmanop9254]

@@Justanotherconsumer yes it is.

[@bohrne6835]

I found and support the Holy Post for the thoughtfulness, care, and curiosity they showed to the issues of race & abortion. This is why I will always be disappointed when they shows the same smug superiority & lack of curiosity that so many others show towards them. "Defund the Police" was stupid? And yet, the policies proposed by that movement are the very same ones Skye supports when framed as a way to reduce abortions. JK Rowling is currently being investigated by France following her treatment of Imane Khelif, and there may be more to the criticism of her than the "Witch Trials" podcast stated.

[@SamuraiSam]

Yeah, this stuff rubbed me the wrong way too.

[@janekahnke1061]

I love this! Thank's for articulating what's happening that most people don't realize. I too am pro-life. I too will be voting for Harris and Walz. I'm from St. Paul, MN. Walz did an excellent job in our state handling Covid and other urgent needs after. This talk is very much in line with my husband's, Pat Kahnke's, new book: A Christian Case Against Donald Trump. We are so grateful for this podcast. On a personal level, it's hard that many of our pro-life family members still think Trump is pro-life. I love your point that, how did you say it?, we quickly decide what our hierarchy of values are when our values come into conflict with one another. That describes me and my thought process. Thanks again!

[@batmanop9254]

​@@michaelward7051 every problem in America today was either caused by or greatly exacerbated by Reagan.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 like no fault divorce and his immigration policies.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 you don't like no fault divorce? What was wrong with his immigration policies?

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 No I don’t. Reagan opened up Cali.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 why not? How did he open it up?

[@annvanhemert2694]

A lot of this discussion focuses on surprise that people are not fulfilling other people's stereotypes. I wish there was more focus and not just a brief mention on the conflict between "prolife" people endorsing, glossing over, covering up, etc. the sexual behavior of some people while looking down on women, single mothers, divorced women, and people who are speaking out about rape and sexual predators.

[@meandyouagainstthealgorith5787]

I think the channel may have Bernie wrong. Bernie was never anti-establishment. Bernie was a negotiator. Bernie wasn't defeated by mainstream Democrats. Bernie was adopted. While there were anti-establishment supporters behind Bernie those people left Bernie for Trump.

[@Anabee3]

David French is such a treasure. If youre not yet familiar- his wife is even more bright, beautiful & purely delightful than you probably can imagine.

[@dxw5795]

No the parties are not trading places, Skye. They both are moving rightwards. The Democrat Party is more centered now and the Republican Party is just racing towards authoritarianism. David hit the nail right on the head at 25:10.

[@Sunny14136]

Thanks for the thoughtful conversation.

[@warrencaulton7859]

The difficulty I have with the states creating policies that deny women needed medical access during miscarriages. We talk about Abortion, including removal of dead fetuses. There needs to be more thoughtful law writing.

[@ailemasvega]

First time watching the video. Skye doesn't look how I expected, but somehow David French looks *exactly* how I thought he would.

[@StandUp777]

As an Ohioan who is anti-Trump and voting Blue, you had me until you said Mike DeWine was good. You obviously know little of him or the questionable ethics that he is currently being investigated for. The guy is corrupt and is far from good. Talk about what you know and leave the rest alone.

[@educationforlife1642]

Blame it all on Trump, oh why don’t you! Once again, instead of being honest, Sky and his conservative guest talk around the issue of the backlash on the overturning of Roe. The reason why the Pro-Life movement is smaller than they thought is that up until the overturning of Roe, the majority of those who were publicly against abortion and for the overturning of it did not know what all entailed in that position and what it would mean for families all across the country who find themselves in need of medical care to deal with a miscarriage. I will speculate that years before the overturning of Roe Sky never spoke on the issue of what would happen to women who have miscarriages. I speculate that he probably did not know that a woman who goes to her doctor for care because she is spotting and losing her baby that she would be asking for an abortion. I speculate that Sky and his Pro-Life movement never gave one thought about pregnant women (even Christian pregnant women) having to bleed out, forced to go without proper medical treatment. I speculate that Sky never bothered to consider what would happen to a woman if she broke the law and had an abortion. I speculate he never wasted his quiet time in prayer to ponder if women who did break the law and have an abortion (for whatever reason) would face imprisonment or if the Conservative Republicans legislators in South Carolina could get their bill pushed through on their next attempt, all those law-breaking women will get the DEATH PENALTY. No, I suspect Sky never tossed that scenario (but a very true story) around in his mind. I will also speculate that Sky has never done a deep dive into the broken adoption agency system and the child abuse crisis in this country (there are documented cases of some people adopting children and trafficking them for work purposes (slaves) and some for sex work purposes). I speculate that while some young girl or woman is getting raped, or some pregnant woman is struggling to feed her child as she takes a beating from her husband (I’ve personally seen many cases of this), or some poor black woman in Texas being extorted for blowjobs by a rogue law enforcement officer who has proof that she has had an abortion and is threatening her with prosecution if she doesn’t meet him every Thursday night to service him, I speculate while all that and more is happening in real-time that Sky will be somewhere stroking his chin as he contemplates the next title to his book, all the while feeling good about himself as a Christian who is taking a strong and unwavering stand for life. I speculate that Sky will not consider giving any credence to any of these real stories until it happens to someone close to him, to one of his loved ones. And finally, I speculate (and God forbid it ever happens) that if a pregnant woman in his family is having a miscarriage or has a history of miscarriages, Sky will do everything in his power to protect her and get her the medical care she needs (when and if she needs it), even if that means him and her sneaking out of state in the dead of night to do so.

[@bobbobberson5627]

I will speculate that you own a cat and are on ssris

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 don't you really have anything better to do with your time than to be a bigoted troll online?

[@ds5436]

I work with pregnant women. The medical need for abortion should never be curtailed. Even Ireland changed its laws after a woman died of sepsis after her (very wanted) pregnancy stopped developing and started decomposing inside her. My own position, my whole life, has been "I wouldn't have an abortion, but I could never make that decision for someone else." I got pregnant even with a LARC in place. I chose life. My daughter is almost 3. Now my husband has had surgery to make extra sure I don't get pregnant again... because the health issues from my first pregnancy would make another one deadly for me. If it happens again I will have to get an abortion. You cannot possibly know what you would or wouldn't do until you're in that position. But you can have empathy and understanding, and I find that severely lacking in many prolife conversations and policies.

[@claudehaynes6419]

Thank you for a thoughtful conversation, and i am especially thankful for the thoughtful comments (so far) that have avoided insult and strict partisanship. I was a long time Democrat and am now an independent. Is our current situation highlighting the irrelevance of political parties. What is the value of putting candidates into smaller boxes that limit their ability to successfully address the problems we face? Playing politics has become more important than passing good legislation. Our founding fathers specifically did not mention political parties in the Constitution. Can we take this opportunity to build something better?

[@WillNelson73]

Trump had no core and the party coalesced around his lack of core beliefs. Once he is gone, that party MIGHT be able to reaffirm core beliefs. I will NOT vote for Trump, but I can’t go as far as Mr French in voting for Harris. I do not have confidence in her leadership abilities. That said I don’t hold French to be evil because of him voting for Harris. Disagreement does NOT necessarily mean the other person is evil

[@1313stjimmy]

All the people who are shocked, SHOCKED! that Trump would back up on so-called Pro Life positions shouldn't be so surprised. To quote something I saw once on Reddit: "He is an onion. Nothing but superficial layers with no real core. Empty layers over empty layers." Does that not sound like Donald Trump?

[@Justanotherconsumer]

What part of her leadership abilities do you question? Wiesel’s comments on neutrality come to mind - sitting on the fence and washing your hands of it helps the problem, it is not morally safe. I have more sympathy for Trump supporters who honestly believe in what he’s doing than I do for those who try to hide from their responsibilities as voters.

[@WillNelson73]

@@Justanotherconsumer she doesn’t inspire confidence when I hear her speak - especially unscripted. She seems unsure of herself. She was pretty decent in the interview with Walz, but her body language (to me) was timid. As for how I am voting; sorry, I just bring myself to vote for either of the top two candidates.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@WillNelson73not being a cult leader is a good thing. Then again I am vehemently opposed to the Imperial Presidency and the idea of strong central leadership. A weak president would do wonders for forcing Congress to stop playing games and actually do some work. I am more than fine with a weak president, though I’m guessing much of the perceived weakness for Harris is because of identity politics where she doesn’t fit the culturally programmed image people have of “strong leadership.”

[@WillNelson73]

@@Justanotherconsumer The weaker presidency ended on 9/11/2001 and was thoroughly abused a couple of years later with the invasion of Iraq. No, Kamala’s being a woman is not what I am referring to. Hillary, by contrast, is very cogent and has a strong command of the facts and issues at hand when asked questions and/or giving a speech. Kamala just comes across as a featherweight in a way that Hillary did not. I think that’s why until last night’s interview with Walz, her team has essentially hid her from the media.

[@meandyouagainstthealgorith5787]

Defund the police was never popular among leftists although there were a few extreme voices. I first heard about it on CNN. Progressive media such as TYT has always been opposed to it.

[@lindadodson1586]

Defunding the police seems to have been termed to invite opposition. REfunding the police might have been more accurate. Yes, it's taking funding away from the police, but it's also removing some of their duties and placing them with other entities.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

There was some discussion of it. In short the main target was destroying the toxicity of police culture. Rebuild the tools needed that police are currently called to do, but provide a clear break where there was no lineage to the slave catchers or those enforcing Black Codes or all the other baggage the police have. The police have pride in a deeply rotten institution with a lot of problematic history, so starting over is very attractive. Good luck doing it, of course. Some people are very fond of the police as a way of generating city revenue on the backs of those that they don’t like.

[@ebundavid]

The main issue with the defunding the police was the slogan not the ideology. It was bad messaging and bad communication. Properly explained, most Democrats would agree with it.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@ebundavid properly explained, most Republicans and independents would agree as well.

[@patrickc3419]

I wouldn’t say they’re “trading places” as much as I would say there’s been two significant changes: 1.) The stark contrast now between both of the two main parties. What I mean by that is that, previously, right up to the mid-1990s, both parties had “factions” of conservative, liberal, & moderate. 2.) Lastly, the mid 2010s onward marked the beginning of the political realignment in that (and I am being general in saying this) wealthy people vote liberal and working-class people vote conservative.

[@LincolnDWard]

They're not talking about since the mid-2010s - they're talking about _this year._ You're absolutely right that both parties became more extreme and the voter bases divided (although I would say it's far more urban-rural and education-related than it is socioeconomic). That's the baseline we're starting from. But then just in the past year, there have been some huge ideological and messaging shifts that may completely transform both parties and even undo some of those changes from previous decades.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@LincolnDWard the urban-rural divide is the most fundamental cause of differing beliefs in this country. The material conditions of where people live largely determine what they will choose to believe, and even what choices are realistically available to them in the first place. Not to mention, the urban-rural divide is largely what determines education level and socioeconomic circumstances in the first place.

[@batmanop9254]

As for what Patrick said, I partially agree. 1) This is ultimately because of the example set by Newt Gingrich and then by Mitch McConnell. If we look at the statistics of how each party has been voting since the 90's, we can see that the Republican party as a whole has been much more obstinate and has gone much further to the right than the Democrat party has to the left. 2) I wouldn't say that the determining factor for voting preferences are wealthy on one side and working class on the other. It correlates with education levels, which is largely caused by the urban-rural divide and which largely predicts income levels.

[@patrickc3419]

@@batmanop9254 And certainly there exist some exceptions to the rural-urban divide; Excluding Boston, New England is largely rural and is basically monolithic in voting Democrat. Conversely, some few major cities like Oklahoma City, Colorado Springs, Miami-Dade, Bakersfield, Fresno vote Republican. There’s lot of variables; Is it a big college town, do they have a big military presence, do they have a big labor union presence, etc.

[@batmanop9254]

@@patrickc3419 obviously. Every generalization has exceptions.

[@impalaman9707]

He's absolutely right---the world has changed. I still have long memories of Ross Perot, 30 years ago, a Populist billionaire out of the same mold as Trump, who couldn't even get 20 percent of the vote in 1992! But people have lived and died since then. and the people alive now probably would have voted for Perot! Conceivably, we may get to a point where, like in the 1950s, Ronald Reagan once said--"I didn't leave the Democratic party--the Democratic party left me". And that may be going on now with some Republicans saying the same thing. Many Democrats already have--so yes, there is a changing of the sides

[@batmanop9254]

Perot would likely have won if he ran in one of the major parties and didn't suspend his campaign.

[@impalaman9707]

@@batmanop9254 But that's part of what has changed. People are not as "party loyal" as they used to be.. People vote more for the person now, than the party. And the more outrageous the personality, the better they have a chance of winning. I remember being shocked when the people of Minnesota elected Jesse Ventura, one of Walz's predecessors, as governor.. That was when I knew things were changing. And then Arnold Schwarzenegger gets elected to governor in California after him. It's the whole anti-"career politician" thing--"let's get a celebrity outsider instead ---they're not beholden to the mess" that began in the 90s

[@batmanop9254]

​@@impalaman9707 yes, we've very famously never elected a celebrity to public office before the 90s. Seriously, though, there are a great many people who simply vote for the letter after people's names, most of all conservative evangelical Christians who think it's a sin to vote for a Democrat.

[@mitchmonteith6468]

I really didn't understand why people would be apolitical and not vote until I met the evil that some call Trump. Get the heck outta here. I do understand why some would vote for Harris because Trump is not only evil but also dangerous.

[@robbower5489]

Peace and a growing economy with low inflation really terrifies me

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@robbower5489peace (by ignoring the problems) and a growing economy (fed entirely by unsustainable deficit spending) concern me. The economy crashed in his last year due in part to gross mismanagement of a serious risk where hiding the problem was seen as more important than dealing with it.

[@robbower5489]

So vote for the candidate that wants to expand welfare even to illegals? How will that help with defecit spending?

[@batmanop9254]

​@@Justanotherconsumer there were signs of an upcoming Trump recession before the pandemic. People were predicting one in August of 2019. Trump is just bad for the economy regardless.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@robbower5489a lot better than the planned tax cuts that will not “pay for themselves” and are just handouts to people who don’t need help. I know helping the least of these is a sin for conservatives, but some of us aren’t quite as opposed…

[@paulbobier7857]

I was involved in politics for 20 years. We are now in the era of charismatic spokespeople, who echo a pre-planned organizational agenda. This is the evolution of celebrity politics, beginning about 15 years ago. On both sides, we no longer have politicians: we have what is closer to reality show contestants, vying for audience adoration. Government runs itself, basically without leaders, in today's world (as hard as that is to fathom, it is true). Platforms are quickly flexible and adjustable even in the same campaign year. I believe we have no strong winner in either candidate and the polls support that. Now, it is down to choosing the lesser of two evils. That said, Trump and his party elite are radical, Trump himself lies significantly more than normal, is a grandiose narcissist, commits various crimes and is a self-described wannabe dictator, so yeah for those reasons alone......if you value a free United States you enjoy now, he wouldn't be your best choice. We as Christians, need to support people who may not always be in our same line of thought, but follow biblical principles on character traits and actions, as God and Jesus laid it out. If you look the other way and vote for a Pharisee, and hope that somehow by some miracle he will turn into a Moses, forget it. He will still be a Pharisee, only with immense power and total immunity from the law...oh, oh.

[@bobbobberson5627]

So your conclusion is our political structure is just Hollywood for ugly people, but somehow policy doesn’t actually matter and instead the personal conduct of these bad actors does? Geez dude.

[@paulbobier7857]

@@bobbobberson5627 No, you have misread and/or purposely twisted my message, and isn't it nice that you live in a democracy where you have the freedom to do that. Be careful how you vote, so it can stay that way.

[@3eyedcyclops]

@@paulbobier7857 Thankfully, Bobbo doesn't vote. But Bobbo is also incapable of reading anything anyone says with the intent to accurately understand what they intend to communicate. Firstly because Bobbo can't read. But secondly because Bobbo only sees and hears what Bobbo expects to see and hear. Because Bobbo's heart and mind are completely closed to anything other than what Bobbo expects to see and hear. In other words, Bobbo is engaging in bad faith. But not intentionally. Bobbo is just incapable of engaging in good faith.

[@paulbobier7857]

@@3eyedcyclops Thanks for letting me know. And I pray for him. Life in his shoes cannot be easy. It's a lesson to be grateful for what we have. I think in the broader sense that a general attitude like his permeates a lot more of America than people think. I have seen and received many responses like this from MAGA supporters, who just can't come out of the cocoon they have enveloped themselves in, politically and otherwise. A vote is privilege but also harmful in the hands of the misinformed. A little bit of power (in a vote) is like a little bit of knowledge, a dangerous thing.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@paulbobier7857 you could climb down off your ivory tower and explain how I misrepresented your position. You people are so insufferable lol.

[@viennehaake9149]

Events sure have made the political landscape change, as the culture and world changes faster than the speed of light- I'm feel perpetually fish hooked. But these two articulate this election climate so well. Honestly, character matters a lot to me and my Modus Operandi has always been just try to whittle things down to candidate character & recent events/threats since I've never had the time &/ or the inclination to research sources, platforms, politics and agendas.

[@Anabee3]

Same. I mean, unlike you, I DO have TIME, but I'd rather not have to spend it having to diligently keeping my eye on the snake in the room. (There's a reason djts favorite poem involves a snake). Anyway, in all my 57yrs, & regardless of what hardships our country has endured & pushed thru, I've always bn grateful to know the potus, his admin & other gmnt leaders wouldn't let anything atrocious happen to us. I felt so safe, protected & overall BLESSED to be able to trust em, regardless of party. And time & time again- when disaster struck (911/extreme hurricanes, etc.,)gvmnt agencies & US citizens rolled up their sleeves & worked together. No questions...incldg "WHO did you vote for?". Then came Trump. It's so surreal to me. And just a sidenote: I have to keep reminding myself that for younger voters (late teens & 20's) - THIS...all this division, choas & pure BALONEY SAUCE is all they've known. (I was born in 67. So I was too young to be aware of the social unrest at that time.. even so, my mom & others her age say that that was a Sunday family picnic compared to THIS). No one can know what all djt has up his sleeve, but I know Hitler was very beneficial to Germany AT FIRST. And I know THEEE anti-Christ will be far more beneficial, & for the entire world,..at first...his first 3.5 yrs (ish). And I know that djt, recently & on more than one occasion, has verbally & clearly announced: "If you vote for ME (& I win), you will never have to vote again!". Uhmmm...

[@bkucenski]

According to the CDC, Arkansas had 43.5 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births between 2018 and 2021, compared to the national rate of 23.5 deaths per 100,000. Aware of the crisis, the Arkansas legislature passed House Bill 1440 in 2019 to establish the Arkansas Maternal Mortality Review Committee (AMMRC) --- That's what "pro-life" gets you when you let ignorant people make laws. Maybe we should just stop letting the guys talk about this issue. It's embarrassing.

[@bobsnead1153]

I can't say it often enough: Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness.

[@jenniferjones2494]

I agree with almost everything discussed in this podcast except for David French's assessment of the trans phenomenon even in "red" parts of the country. I live in southeast Tennessee. My job is to help train new employees for one of the major employers of my small city. In almost every new hire class we bring in (approximately twice a month), we have at least 1-2 trans employees, both trans male and trans female. Also I work with numerous other work colleagues whose own children (middle school and/or high school) are considering if they are trans, and their parents are quite distraught. I live in a town that has traditionally been very conservative and very religious, but I have been observing this to be dramatically changing over the last 3-4 years. This is not the only topic I care about and I am not saying this is going to convince me to vote for Trump, but I do feel that the trans phenomenon is a much greater concern in our culture than David French currently realizes.

[@batmanop9254]

Who are they hurting?

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254themselves

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 are they though?

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 yes electively removing your genitals is harmful.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 not as much as suicide is.

[@ebundavid]

The constant use of the term woke as a pejorative is one of the more disappointing things I've heard from this show. I suppose it shows the sheer power of the right-wing movement where they have twisted your brains and forced you into turning something that is legitimately a good thing, and made you think it's a bad thing. Even the term dei sounds like a slur to many of you. However, good discussion overall. Level-headed and insightful. David French constantly straw-manning the left-wing position is also dishonorable. Furthermore , the institutions are not "done" with anything, they were never with it to begin with. As you said about Trump, they simply wore it as an ill-fitting suit and threw it off at the earliest convenience.

[@timvanhaitsma9659]

The Pro Life position is out of step with the (vast?) majority of americans. simple thing really.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I wouldn’t say vast, just majority, and popular doesn’t make it right. The pro-life movement has constantly shot itself in the foot by letting itself be abused politically by those that hijack it for other causes. The pro-life cause is moderately popular. The pro-life political movement is cancer.

[@busroger3349]

Clear headed commentary. Thank you.

[@stephenboyington630]

Trump's voters would not have supported any of the others.

[@peanut3616]

New Christian listener here. Mmaybe you can clarify something for me. The goal is to reduce or eliminate unwanted pregnancy, right? No pregnancy, no abortion. So why is the policy not called "no unwanted pregnancies" ? Why are there no anti-rape, anti-incest policy goals as part of the "pro-life" movement ? Thanks.

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

There's a lot to unpack here, but pro-life does cover a bunch of people that anti-unwanted-pregnancy would not. There are a lot of "happy accidents" in the world. In my own case, I was diagnosed with what's called a balanced genetic translocation. You can look it up, but to summarize briefly in pop-culture terms, I'm a mutant just like the X-Men, except my mutant superpower is that I have sick babies. (I got cheated. I want laser eyes!) Once I had that diagnosis after having one severely disabled child and losing another, I scheduled my vasectomy. We found out my wife was pregnant a week after my vasectomy. She's my miracle rainbow baby. Despite the odds, she's perfectly healthy. Was she an unwanted pregnancy? Absolutely. That was the most stressful, anxious eight and a half months of my life. But I'm pro-life. I wasn't going to kill her. And I'm glad I didn't. She's my whole world. I'm appropriately protective of her, but for some reason my friends can't spell that right and keep putting "overly protective Shaun strikes again..." How does that fit into the theory of anti-unwanted-pregnancy? Some would end that "unwanted pregnancy" as soon as it was discovered. But I'm against ending unwanted pregnancies. I'm also very deeply in favor of greater support for pregnancy, children, and the disabled. I've been in favor of some sort of guaranteed basic income since before I had kids, for example.

[@ht71229]

One thing to consider is that even the ProLife movement has different strains. They touched on it here when they talked about so many voters who said that ProLife was most important but really ranked 7th (if I recall correctly) in the list of priorities of many prolife voters. And, as I learned long ago from a friend who is very active in the ProLife movement -- there are ppl who walk the talk and many who don't. Walking the talk... ppl who adopt children who's parents don't want them. Individuals who actively (sometimes financially) help moms and make it easier for them to choose life, not as a one off but doing life together. And ppl who are way to busy to be on Fox or CNN w talking points. That said, I agree that pro life is broader than what happens in the womb. And, protecting children needs to include protecting kids from incest, malnutrition, the diseases that can be prevented with prenatal care , etc. IMO it's been far too easy, comfortable and convenient for the church to focus on politics rather for us to actually be the hands and feet of Jesus and be involved in this messy thing called LIFE.

[@peanut3616]

@ShaunCKennedyAuthor You have an amazing personal story. But it didn't answer my question which is ... Why does the pro-life movement not have an anti-rape, anti-incest platform with concrete legal and policy recommendations to prevent rape and incest ? for example, I know that there are rape kits that have never been processed in many, many Police stations all over the United States, because of no money is allocated to processing them, that would prove who the rapist actually was and prevent him from committing more rapes. Why isn't this part of the pro-life political action platform ?

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

@@peanut3616 Those are covered by other aspects of legal policy. That's kind of like asking why the vaccine movement didn't have a health food promotion policy, or why the anti-slavery movement didn't have a feminist policy.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@peanut3616 too many people who call themselves "pro-life" only care about controlling those who are pregnant. They just want to make it illegal, rather than passing policies that would actually help to prevent unwanted pregnancies at their source (affordable healthcare, social safety nets, age-appropriate sex education (which is also the best way to prevent CSA), affordable contraceptives, etc... For decades, Republican voters have been telling their party that they're more interested in tax cuts than they are in people in need of assistance receiving the help that they need. The Republican party today is the culmination of evolution based on what the majority of their voters have been telling them that they want, xenophobia and all.

[@ConnorMarc]

There's a reason why the "weird " moniker is sticking to Republicans

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Donald Fib-tim-lin-bin-whine-bim-lim-bus-stop-f’tang-f’tang-old-hamberderbarrel (Silly Party)

[@bobbobberson5627]

Aren’t you guys into sex change operations and men marrying each other?

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 technically, no. Not really. You're a decade or two behind with your terminology. Maybe you should actually learn some things before you try to project your weirdness onto others.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 just because you invent new WEIRD terms for the same thing every six mos doesn’t mean I have to participate.

[@batmanop9254]

@@bobbobberson5627 what's weird is you uncritically taking your morality from a literal interpretation of a book that was written thousands of years ago in a completely different historical and cultural context without ever asking if it should be applied differently in today's world.

[@williambarrett4776]

I m am standing with you shoulder to shoulder David French.

[@timothymulholland7905]

I'm so glad he election is reduced to a single usaste.

[@JesseDBlack]

Love you guys, but it kills me that we’re still talking about January 5th 4 years later but have managed to completely forget about and move on from the Trump assassination attempt about a month later. That’s so crazy to me 🤯

[@arthurmalonell115]

@JesseDBlack Because Jan 6th people were running and hiding for their lives and not posturing to the crowd for a photo op like Trump did. If you are unable to see the difference then you need prayer my friend 🙏🏾

[@ps.2]

Turns out the would-be assassin was a troubled youth with access to a firearm and an apparent desire to make a suicidal statement, and a Trump rally happened to be the nearest opportunity. It wasn't really about Trump or politics or religion or anything, as it turned out. So, in the end, not very meaningful or interesting, except that he killed one guy plus himself, caused a lot of finger-pointing in the Secret Service and local law enforcement, and launched a questionable fashion trend of gauze earrings. If the dude had been part of some larger conspiracy, on a suicide mission for a greater cause, taking his orders from Nancy Pelosi or Ted Cruz's dad or the board of Burisma or the ghost of Hugo Chávez ... now _that_ would be worth continuing to talk about for awhile.

[@stephenboyington630]

My opinion is that the actual parents of kids dealing with trans issues are completely okay with it and want to be left alone. It is the parents/people that do not actually have experience with the issues that are the most upset. The 'icky' factor and the desire to judge is strong.

[@bobbobberson5627]

Child abusers tend to be ok w child abuse.

[@3eyedcyclops]

@@bobbobberson5627 Are you OK with how your parents treated you?

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@3eyedcyclops ok 👍

[@batmanop9254]

​@@bobbobberson5627 please answer my question honestly.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@batmanop9254 you didn’t ask a question silly goose

[@randomly62]

Let’s acknowledge the issue at hand pertaining to the appeal of Trump's ideology among the masses. The underlying factor driving this phenomenon is tribalism. Individuals are inherently reluctant to compromise their deeply-rooted beliefs or concede to fallibility. The preservation of one's cultural, race, religion, and convictions is deeply ingrained in human nature. Regrettably, some have lost sight of the beacon that illuminates the darker aspects of humanity. This signifies a lack of willingness to seek redemption through repentance. Therefore, it is crucial not to be misled. We, as people of faith, stand united in this shared journey not as Americans but as people of God. While it may be true that God appointed Trump once, do not be fooled; the mere placement of a mirror on one of many walls does not render it immutable. The mirror serves as a reflection of something greater than ourselves. Ultimately, it is not the mirror itself or the image it projects that hold significance, but rather the entity responsible for its placement. May divine protection encompass us all.

[@Anabee3]

Im genuinely glad The Holy Post covers poltics & other subjects, but ive noticed that more-so every wk, there's less & less Biblical reference...or mention of Jesus at all. I wonder if that has anything to do with why they & Christian Taylor went their separate ways. It seemed like C.T. was often struggling to tetris Scripture into the convo & the others werent so interested, especially Phil & Skye. Yeah. I know - Kaitlyn...but when you finally boil down her algebraic, superfluous manner of speaking to get to her point, theres still very little, if anything Scriptural at the end. So Ive decided to no longer think of this channel as a Christian channel to save myself disappointment. This isJust my observation/pov. not intended to get anyone all bent out of shape. Im not sharing to get clobbered by ppl who disagree with me. Please dont. My notifs dont work anyway so youll only waste your time. Im sharing incase there are other diehard viewers who ALSO love all our hosts (& CHRISTIAN TAYLOR, FOREVER) but just simply noticed the same & wonder if they're alone in that. If so..just know that you are NOT alone.

[@troylogan446]

So (for Evangelicals) it was never about abortion.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Abortion was just a cover issue. There’s a famous article on the origins of the religious right that tagged it to really be about Brown v. Board.

[@batmanop9254]

​@@Justanotherconsumer that was the origin of it. For many, abortion was just a cynical way to galvanize conservative evangelical Christians. For many evangelical Christians who have been bombarded by constant propaganda for decades, it is a real issue. People can be both genuine and manipulated.

[@ScottJohnson-tk7ql]

Does God still harden hearts, as he did to Pharaoh?

[@patrickc3419]

Yes.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@ScottJohnson-tk7ql yes, but it’s not a particularly helpful way to frame discussions. Most people disagree based on the information they have received. If that information is carefully curated to produce a specific outcome, they will do what the information they were told tells them to think. Our blind spots have a huge impact on our political views.

[@alexanderwaugh5772]

Pro choicer here. I could honestly see myself voting pro life if healthcare and other assistance were to be provided to the mother. I don’t think it’s a good idea to advocate a pro life stance while also trying to cut things like food stamps and other welfare programs. Like, what’s the mother supposed to do if she doesn’t have the resources to raise the child but she’s forced to give birth?

[@bobbobberson5627]

Bb killa

[@3eyedcyclops]

@@bobbobberson5627 Don't pretend that you care about "babies". You just hate women. You're a woman hater.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@3eyedcyclops ok 👍

[@hsuehhs1]

@@bobbobberson5627please you are just pro birth. What about school shootings where were the Pro Life people hiding when the Georgia school shooting happened?! All they did say give everyone a gun. They say give everyone a gun but not give everyone food

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@hsuehhs1 please name a demographic that adopts more children or feeds more people than pro life Christians. Thanks.

[@chrisk5651]

You guys speak of Pro-Life but should just say Anti-Abortion because there nothing PRO or positive about Life after the birth and even the birth itself and prenatal care & certainly postnatal care!

[@batmanop9254]

I never use the term "pro-life" outside of quotation marks. Forced birth is a more accurate description.

[@batmanop9254]

@michaelward1341 "pro-abortion" has the connotation that people actually want abortions to happen. That's usually not the case, even on the pro-choice side.

[@nattylite1943]

I think the issue with defund the police was just bad branding the aims were to use some of that police funding for other types of interventions which most people would be on board with but unfortunately that slogan sticked. I also think the trans issue is also a loser for republicans too. They hyperfixate on it to an unhealthy degree and it creeps people out.

[@batmanop9254]

Unfortunately, the left has never been good at slogans.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The trans issue is, in my mind, a lot like interracial marriage. If there is a clear hierarchy of A above B and people are neither A nor B the hierarchy falls apart. In 1776 it was “noble” and “commoner,” in the 1960’s it was about skin color, and the current hierarchy being challenged is on gender. For those whose worldview demands a hierarchy and knowing their place in it, it’s all the same problem.

[@nattylite1943]

@@Justanotherconsumer Agreed. It blurs the lines and it freaks people out especially conservatives.

[@batmanop9254]

@@Justanotherconsumer yep. The "trans bathroom" discourse is the exact same as the "mixed race bathroom" discourse was back then. Same old recycled arguments.

[@stargate2395]

Now that "King Cyrus" has changed his position on abortion, its fun watching evangelicals tap dance. One could say that their political house was built on shifting sands. LOL

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

"Woke" never really was mainstream in the democratic party. The most extreme ideas were magnified by social media and by opo research. We like institutions over here. We aren't going to make doodoo where we eat.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

That Democrats are still plenty conservative is hardly a shocking revelation. Slow progress instead of a fast backslide. The only ones advocating for fast progress are pretty fringe in US politics.

[@batmanop9254]

To answer the question, yes. The parties are trading places. It wouldn't be the first time. It's only a matter of how, when, and why.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

If the GOP becomes the party of civil rights again I will be shocked. I’ll still vote for them if they’re the party that’s actually for civil rights. I don’t think that’s likely to happen, not without a complete implosion in a post-Trump era and a party that does not resemble anything from Reagan or Nixon.

[@jiggsh54]

It’s never been pro life, it’s always been pro birth. It’s sad Christianity has become “birth them, but don’t keep them alive.”

[@bobbobberson5627]

What?

[@3eyedcyclops]

@@bobbobberson5627 Learn to read. Words mean things. Mindlessly nodding along when you're presented with strings of words that are already familiar to you isn't reading. People who can actually read understand the meaning each word they're presented with. And that's how they can understand the meanings of strings of words that they haven't already seen before.

[@bobbobberson5627]

@@3eyedcyclops ok 👍

[@lindadodson1586]

I consider myself pro-life, but also pro-choice. I wish abortion was not a thing; however, I realize that laws banning them will not eliminate them. Women will seek them, and unscrupulous doctors will provide them, even when they are illegal--just as it used to be--which is risky. Some women will even attempt self-inducing an abortion. Because of that, I would rather have them performed in a safe environment. I have a friend who has been a volunteer and instructor at a Christian pregnancy clinic for decades. She agreed with me that in the end we have to let the woman choose, even if in spite of our efforts we encourage her to carry the baby to term. I know several Christian women who've had abortions and came to Christ afterward. My heart aches for the babies who were denied personhood; however, that doesn't mean the woman is condemned to hell. Jesus will accept them and forgive their sin, just like he does for all of us.

[@bori1102]

It is amazing how well French gives words to my beliefs

[@lexieharrison299]

I could listen to a David French and skye podcast everyday. So good