French Friday: "Nerdfest 2024"

[@krakken-]

I remember reading Tolkien and playing D&D as child in the 80s. And my aunt called me a Satanist. Thanks for being nerds and Christians!

[@Gameroomschoolhouse]

Love the nerd talk! I’m always here for an in-depth discussion on fantasy, sci-fi, and history. Thank you David for acknowledging that the title of war buff is not gendered. I have always geeked out on World War I and II history but it all feels a little too relevant for comfort these days.

[@Ihrgoth]

The moment I realized Dune Part 2 understood the theme of the books is Paul's speech after the water of life. Watching Gurney go from playing along to full on religious devotion is chilling. It truly captures the theme of the series. I'm also looking forward to the new Fantastic Four movie. It looks like it understands the assignment.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I’ll wait for reviews. People have… fantastic problems getting Reed right.

[@danielhowen655]

Listening to this episode instantly transported me back to my time at Biola because I was in the “nerd dorm” and I would hear (and engage in) conversations like this at least weekly.

[@AlanStrohm]

2025: Severance Season 2

[@cursivecurses]

I want to say the Harfoots are the weak link like everyone says, yet they're the reason I found myself in tears at the end of Season 1. I've got three young girls. When Nori's dad says "You're leaving and I haven't taught you a thing," and she recites all his life lessons and says "I was listening the whole time, dad," I lost it.

[@brookelawrence6740]

When I was traumatized from human rights abuses at the end of high school, two stories helped me: Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings. One held the truth of the world’s cruelty and another held a truth of the world’s hope. I still feel that way (though I haven’t gotten into rings of power yet) I do want to bring ip Helaena because I’m obsessed with her and she means so much to me. As an autistic woman who is dealing with a lot of discrimination (from church, unfortunately), it was beautiful to me to see an autistic woman on screen and her way of existing in the world, knowing things and yet not being heard. She just means a lot to me and I haven’t connected with any rings of power character in that way

[@BryanLeeDavidson]

"Side quest" is such D&D way of putting it. Love it!

[@battlejitney2197]

I’m just glad I’m not the only one who enjoyed Rings of Power. I’m the only one in my home who does!

[@dennisbourne254]

14:29 As a Gen Xer from a conservative Christian family (ironic as it may be), the Lord of the Rings material triggers my satanic panic shock collar in a way that the Game of Thrones material doesn’t for the reasons David stated. I think his description of GoT is a very good summary of American Christianity, “a realistic human nature story that’s selectively magical and rarely transcendent.” Because that’s my context, I feel more of a spiritual connection to GoT. I connect with the idea of goodness within my evil characters and evil within my good character. The redemption arcs for characters like Theon and The Hound reflect my experience of faith, where change happens after an interruption involving human interaction and then a series of decisions to do/be different and braver. Then, at the end, Benihoff and Weiss went full American and removed magic and prophecy altogether.

[@rayshell789]

Skye, as a Superman fan, you should really give “Superman & Lois” a try. It only got four seasons due to all the changes at WB/DC, and The CW, but it’s well worth the watch. Full of the hope and moral responsibility that is supposed to be the hallmark of Superman. Not to mention heart. The series finale was just last night and they stuck the landing and then some.

[@jessesnyder5105]

Interesting to mention 13 Days... The original Fellowship teaser trailer was released with 13 Days

[@tracyparsons7724]

Thanks for the thoughtful commentary on Rings of Power. In spite of the fact that everyone in the family are huge LOTR fans, we had to twist our kids arms to watch and the reception has been lukewarm. What I’m looking forward to in 2025 is not anywhere close to the geek squads universe. I’m also a big Downton Abbey fan and another movie is coming next November! Happy Thanksgiving 😁

[@S1leNtRIP]

While there might not be a lot of hope in Virtue in Martin, it's still explicitly bourne up by the text to be the RIGHT thing to do.

[@alyssajohnson218]

Enjoyed this chat! I have to admit to loving the fantasy world of House of the Dragon. Despite its lack of transcendence, it chillingly dramatizes the consequences of sexism in a way that resonates deeply with me as a woman in the workplace and in the church. The war is catalyzed by a miscommunication, true, but the sparks were already in place to catch fire because the society depicted will not, by and large, gladly accept a woman as leader. House of the Dragon also provides stark reminders that the suffering caused by war has a vast ripple effect that intensifies beyond the boundaries of the families in power. The perpetrators of the civil war experience casualties, but they're nothing compared to the mass suffering of those not in positions of power. As a person of faith, I appreciate the series as a cautionary tale and important reminder of the necessity of radical honesty when it comes to evaluating social systems as well as our own motivations. I'd be interested to hear your takes on Criston Cole's arc and the show's (perhaps surprising) exploration and indictment of purity culture through him (and, to an extent, through Alicent).

[@alp300]

I enjoyed this very much. Took notes of things to watch.

[@scottwatson7722]

Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister was the only reason I watched Game of Thrones. His cynicism was a good way to sit in the midst of the gore and dark tone of the series. Good contrast with Tolkien’s use of light and a higher morality.

[@r.altman6458]

I’ve been “attempting” to read The Silmarillion for maybe 5 years (not actively) 🤦🏼‍♀️ because I wanted to know the wider story and history. I have a hold on Andy Serkis’ narration of the audio hoping that will help.

[@MrJoshOh]

I always love me a good nerdfest, thank you Skye and David! I totally agree with David about the difference between Tolkien and Martin, and I have been more intentionally searching out fiction that is more on the side of Tolkien. I thought Silo was super fascinating as books, haven't watched season 2 yet, but season 1 was great! Rebecca Ferguson is fantastic. I'm curious, have either of you guys read any of Brandon Sanderson's books? I'd love to hear your thoughts if you ever have time to check it out!

[@shanewilson2484]

@38:52 Silo sounds a bit like Logan's Run ...

[@flight007keith2]

Andor Season 2...April 2025!

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Amazing show. That the first season isn’t about Cassian is an important thought.

[@sanjayparmar7439]

Love the Nerdfest dialogue on RoP. Agree with David that S2 took what was good in S1 and made it better. Some highlights for me (not exhaustive): the relationship (and acting) between Celebrimbor and Sauron, Celebrimbor's powerful refutation of Sauron's deception at the end, Tom Bombadil!!!!!, King Durins descent into deception and finally 'that' scene as King Thorin goes to his death against the balrog! Also, totally agree with David re GoT feeling hollow and nihilistic, whereas Tolkein's world feels transcendent and magical and therefore is able to carry great spiritual truths (and morality) that can have a profound effect!

[@Justanotherconsumer]

S1 definitely didn’t grab me at all. Too much trying to get through the plot, not enough character development.

[@TheGeekpreacher]

It's still strange for me to hear fellow Christians from evangelical backgrounds talk about all these great, nerdy/geeky things. I remember the days when such conversation was verboten. I didn't realize David was in Nashville. It would be fun to talk with him about a few of these topics. And, Sky, I agree with your assessment of Man of Steel. It was stood dark for me as well. Superman originally was about bringing hope, light, and joy into the world. The darker take just doesn't work for me.

[@trackeduser2577]

David French, Congratulations. in many ways Game of Thrones is the antithesis of Lord of the rings. that is not an accident. that is Martin's design. that's one of the things that's really neat about the Tolkien/Martin ERB as the lines talk about the warring vision both had. would Martin feel hollow in comparison, yes! in part, because Tolkien is allowing the central message of the Gospel to pervade the story, its more obvious in the book but many of the themes cannot help but pervade the movies if its a decent adaption. so its natural the story resonates. meanwhile Martin is over there saying- this is a fallen world, there are no good people here. good does not necessarily win. do not look for heroes here. after all reportedly Arya is alive because someone has influenced Martin to keep it so.

[@vDC2me]

Okay 56-year-old Christian man has just gotten intrigued by reading/listening to the Tolkien books. What order should I go in? I've only seen one of the movies.

[@MrJoshOh]

Are you asking about watching order or reading order?

[@vDC2me]

@@MrJoshOh reading, before the watching

[@MrJoshOh]

@@vDC2me I would recommend The Lord of the Rings, then the Hobbit, then the various other lore in whatever order you would like, based on what looks the most interesting.

[@benkpeltz]

When I first logged in there were only four like so David's closing comments felt salient but when I went to write this comment it had increased to six. So, I guess you didn't get rid of all of us!

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Shameless promo for The Expanse, which has GoT level writing without losing that higher exploration of morality. It involves a lot of deep social problems and proves that even in the future when we have spaceships and lasers humans will still treat each other poorly in the exact same ways they do now. Watching season 5 at the end of 2023 was… well, nothing new under the sun. Also, a Christian character that actually appears to have read and tried to apply the red letters. Pity she’s mostly confined to season 3, though she is a big part of that season.

[@Gameroomschoolhouse]

Also, Dark Matter is based on a book by Blake Crouch, who writes crazy mind-bending sci fi thrillers. I like all of his books, but Dark Matter is my least favorite. He gets better each time, in my opinion because he gets closer to the truth each time. Would love to hear you all discuss gospel themes in those books. Upgrade is my favorite, personally because I think it has the closest to the gospel message.

[@RyanGuenther]

K two things: 1. Check out the CW's Superman and Lois. Well written show, and Tyler Hoechlin's portrayal of Superman/Clark Kent is one of the best out there. Also the scariest Lex Luthor in season 4. 2. The Harfoots thread is by far imo the weak link to the Rings of Power, both in its plot and characters. Recast the actors (they're not the issue), and use that running time to better develop Eregion and Numenor, and the show improves immediately.

[@materialsdan]

Popped over from audio podcast to call out Wheel of Time - which was literally the bridge between LoTR and GoT, Wheel of Time Season 3 out next year and exploring themes of institutions, destiny, good and evil. Definitely better for me than RoP

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I’m curious about reactions from people who hadn’t already read the books. I read them a long time ago and nothing jumped out to me as “wrong” though I was a bit surprised to see the Seanchan that early.

[@materialsdan]

@Justanotherconsumer that detail isn't different from the books, even if surprising in retrospect. There are some great first time wotcher reaction videos on here

[@VictorDiGiovanni]

Loved every word of this conversation. Rings of Power: Agree that it's beautiful and does a great job at laying out the broad strokes of Tolkien's wider world. The time compression doesn't bother me as long as the story makes sense. 100% agree that we have too many storylines. I'd have gone one step farther and made the show entirely with Sauron as the POV and all the other stories only touched on peripherally (if at all) in relation to Sauron's story. So, no Gandalf and Harfoots. No Arondir. Almost no Numenor (at least in first two seasons), and mostly Elves and Dwarves with Galadriel, Celebrimbor and Durin's stories given about the same weight as current. House of the Dragon: I love this show, but I find it less engaging than Game of Thrones because there isn't even one truly likable character like Jon Snow or Arya. As to the nihilistic aspect, I appreciate how 'realistic' GRRM is writing his history of Westeros, meaning that NO ONE gets a happy ending just like how real history everyone eventually dies from a miserable disease, or in a shockingly violent attack, or penniless. Real history isn't kind to people even the heroes, and GRRM follows suit. My least favorite example of his doing this is how he even has perhaps the two funnest, most heroic characters, Dunk and Egg, meet unhappy ends, Egg especially so. While that feels like "real" history, I think with this and with many characters in Fire and Blood (the book House of the Dragon is drawing from) it's creating a less enjoyable TV show. To the showrunners' credit, they are attempting to lighten it up, giving characters who met dark ends what could be considered 'happy' endings. Biggest example so far, Laenor. In the book, he dies horribly. But in the show, he sneaks off after faking his death and lives presumably a long happier life. The show is doing that a lot, fudging the known deaths of characters and giving the probably happy endings. Alicent and Rhaenyra were bitter, unlikable characters to their ends, but the show has given them plausible ways they can be nicer and attempt to be the good guys. GRRM recently has been very publicly pissy about the changes being made to his source material, especially how one character, the child Maegor, has been eliminated entirely. But all that character is going to face in the next few months of his life (had he existed) is to be torn apart by an angry crowd. The death of that child leads to the suicide of his mother, Helaena. Ten bucks says that Helaena in the show was scheduled to not kill herself and maybe even sneak off after faking her own death. House of the Dragon is TRYING to be less nihilistic than the books, but we'll see if they will be allowed to. Each rescue of a doomed book character comes across as incredibly TV-tropey, but it's the only way to try to straddle the distance between GRRM's unrelentingly grim "realistic" history and giving viewers of a TV show something resembling a happy ending.

[@xyonblade]

My main set of thought is... as a person, you don't owe your attention to any movie or show or game just because it exists. So i will say, I'm surprised David , with his thoughts about game of thrones, actually watched house of the dragon, or decided to watch through the rest of it after a point of feeling like it was a drag. I think I've only seen the first four seasons of game of thrones, i have no interest in watching the rest, and i have no interest in watching house of the dragon. Likewise, while i have read the hobbit and lord of the rings a lot, I haven't seen rings of power, based on some reviews i wouldn't really enjoy it, and i guess some people enjoy it and that's fine but i personally feel confused by it. For Dune the movie, i loved the movies and I've read the books too. But i mean, in the book he loved and trusted chani enough to tell her his plans and say that the marriage with the emperor's daughter would be political and that she would still be his love, the movie really borked that part up, i suppose i care more about sticking to the book than trying to change things based on what you think the author was trying to say but "better" . I've listened to foundation audio books but i haven't seen the tv show. I dunno i liked some of foundation but other parts didn't make any sense to me, like earth just getting more and more radioactive to the point that it's just a legend. The silo sounds interesting but i don't know if i will ever get appletv. I thin i haven't seen the latest season of stranger things, they've really lost me. For superman, i want krypto and super chimp to be in the movie. Am i one of the few people left who unironically likes the Adam west batman series? I'm still a relatively new listener so I'm still pegging down everyone's personalities. I have been so disappointed by media and entertainment for the last ten years i try to just ignore everything about stuff coming out because I'd rather just enjoy stuff that comes out that is rarely good instead of fighting or worrying about how talentless soulless people are destroying the things i care about in order to appeal to a "modern audience " that doesn't exist.

[@dandathomas6852]

Make America Great Again!

[@viennehaake9149]

Love the divergence!But hope theme or no-hope- GOT falls in same camp of violent myth for me. I remember walking out of LOTR so many years ago, my friend and I just could not take another minute, probably about 20 minutes in, I love Tolkien books but I have my limits on fantasy and accompanied violence. Sounds kind of sexist. Maybe it is but I still really enjoyed listening to you guys while I was putzing around the house just enjoyed hearing what you love about movies. Always great conversations. I saw Wicked yesterday and I thought it was a little dumb with some great talent here in there. Too long and (of course)a part 2 on its way. Gotta pay for those set designs! I think I have to accept not going the theater very often. It's expensive now and the movies are so marginal in my opinion that most of them aren't worth the trouble. They're sticking to a very prescriptive recipe- so they churn out remakes Gladiator, Beetlejuice, Top Gun. Bottom line is money and what they think will sell- as a sidenote we know Americans- about half wouldnt know quality if it hit them in the face and much prefer sleeze, porn, sciFi, dark, dystopian fantasy or slashers. Unfortunately Hollywood is giving many Americans what they want at the box office.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Adapting stage works for the big screen is… difficult. What works on stage doesn’t necessarily work on screen.

[@NathanBoniface]

2025 - Andor Season 2, Star Trek: Section 31, Foundation Season 3 Tragedy not mentioned / watch: For All Mankind on Apple TV Best SciFi since The Expanse - 4 seasons out and 5th coming

[@Mandalorian_of_Christ]

This should be interesting...I've never been a huge "fantasy" guy in the Tolkien genre. As my Username says, i'm a Star Wars fan, but I'm OLD Star Wars, the Original Trilogy and Prequels, there is No sequel trilogy and I'm not a fan of the Dave Filoni shows. TWO trilogies and then the old Expanded Universe books and comics were fall better than anything the shows from Filoni or Disney put out. Also a huge Dune fan and so far enjoy the Prophecies show even though it's only two episodes....but I loved the glimpse into the Thinking Machines

[@stephen6520]

BUT DID YALL WATCH ARCANE?!?!?!?!

[@djhammond82]

To talk about great nerdy stuff in 2024 and not mention X-Men '97 feels a bit off.

[@taylorchase5968]

Just recently watched Batman vs Superman and I found the “Martha” bit thought-provoking - literally Batman is beating the life out of Superman and in a universe where they didn’t share a mother’s name that would have been it, end of story, Doomsday kills everyone. This is Providence stepping in and working a “coincidence” that saves the day - not Batman’s brains or Superman’s muscles - just a tiny fact that they share a mother’s name.

[@SandyKH]

Enjoy, gentlemen! I am not this type of nerd. But, I'll let you be you and skip this one. Stay thankful.

[@scotttheinternetuser]

I'd recommend Arcane as far as sci-fi/cyberpunk. It's relatively short but it makes the most of it's story and characters.

[@Princecharcoal264]

I really dislike Phil Vicher and the Holy Post! Vegetales is also a dumb Christian show! Dislike! Unsubscribing! Communism rules! Opaline rules! Free Opaline!

[@BenSmith-mg5jv]

The Penguin was good. SILO is fantastic, I just finished episode 3 of the newly released S2. Gotta watch Ring of Power S2. Season 1 DIDN'T blow me away so I HAVEN'T prioritized S2. APPLE'S FOUNDATION was good - great, I'm excited for the upcoming season. In terms of Superman, I'm a Henry Cavill as Superman fan. He just... Looked, sounded, just WAS SUPERMAN. So I'm annoyed at the replacement and skeptical. Dark Matter, I watched the first episode or 2. It didn't grab me. House of the Dragon is OKAY but NOT GOT level good - great that 80-85% of the eight GOT's seasons were. Dune I need to watch both movies still and then the new HBO MAX series about the sisterhood. Little known BUT good and relatively short series ( 3 seasons ) on Apple 📺 stars Jason Momoa it's called SEE. It's little known but you'll like it. The premise is it's several hundred years into the future of a 🌎 that had a worldwide plague in the 2020's that killed off 90% of 🌎 population and the humans that were left alive were ALL BLIND, which was still a good amount of people. 10% of 9,000,000,000 is STILL TENS OF MILLIONS of people. Anyway, the series starts 400 years and 400 years worth of generations of blind humans living, giving birth dying , to all blind children. At this point, ALL things, objects, cultural things, ANYTHING from the PRE plague time of the SIGHTED were outlawed, speaking about sight was outlawed, anything pre plague inhabited by the SIGHTED who, " destroyed the 🌎, " were outlawed, NEVER to be spoken of. The random 2 or 3 sighted ppl born over the 400 years since the plague were IMMEDIATELY KILLED, considered WITCHES. The story begins with the Queen's sister who'd met a SIGHTED man had sex with him, he Left her, when she couldn't hide the physical pregnancy anymore from the Queen/sister she ran away from the kingdom and ends up in a village where Jason Momoa is it's LEADER and takes her in during a 🌨️ and they fall in Love. 9 months later she gives birth to TWINS boy and girl who are SIGHTED. The Queen in the several months since her sister was gone found out that her sister left because she had sex with the ONLY SIGHTED man and on just the hope she got pregnant and the hope she'd give BIRTH to a or multiple SIGHTED children,she sends her, " witch finders, " to find and bring back the sister and her possibly witchy children. Of course, the witch finders and the Queen's subjects thinks it's to burn them at the stake like All the sighted or thought to be sighted witches B4 them by the Queen's Father. THIS queen has the secret idea to find her sister and her hopefully SIGHTED child/ children and USE THEM as the ultimate weapon they would be in the land of the blind. Story starts with these witch finders, finding the village where the Queen's sister and Jason Momoa and the TWIN SIGHTED, at the time babies are and Jason Momoa being the villages WAR CHIEF hears of the witch finders being VERY near and prepares the villagers for battle because the witch finders had the reputation of going village to village asking for information of witch location or activity and if the villagers had NO INFORMATION they'd burn them All. If they did, they'd burn them all. So Momoa is preparing his people for battle. Knowing he's got TWO sighted babies who he considers his own due to since marrying the Queen's sister who showed up in the Snow Storm 4-5 months pregnant. The 1st 10mins and the first episode grabs you RIGHT AWAY. ALSO, NEARLY 💯 of the episodes Cliff hangs you PERFECTLY. SEE on Apple 📺➕. ✌🏻

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Apple’s foundation is a pale, pale shadow of the books.