Does Reverse Osmosis Waste Water? Understanding RO Efficiency

[@tomterrica4032]

The best explanation I've ever heard about RO efficiency. Thanks!

[@JustinL-y6t]

Thanks for your unbiased knowledge. I've been researching softeners and ro systems for the last 5 hrs, and your video was amongst most.

[@Freshwatersystems]

We appreciate this! You are welcome.

[@tommcelroy1507]

This really opened my eyes. In 2021 I had a new ClearFlo RO system installed. Today did an experiment. I pulled the drain line out of the drain and placed it in a bucket. Ran the faucet to withdraw various water volumes, from 1/2 gal to 1.5 gals. In each case, I got 16% efficiency. For example, when I withdrew 1 gallon, the system refilled the tank, but also flushed 5.25 gallons down the drain.

[@kennethz3366]

Wow... Create 1 gallon fresh water and throw 5 gallons out. That's very expensive if you in like in North California.

[@0utcast]

​@kennethz3366 sometimes ro systems are necessary like if your water quality is bad like heavy metals etc. Standard filtration won't get rid of that crap

[@fullspectrumtradingco]

Just want to say that this video contributed to me ordering one of your premanufactured RO systems. I recommend ordering the airgap faucet with your unit, and double check that you are getting and AIR-GAP faucet. Other than that, it's a decently easy install. You will need 9/16", 11/16" wrenches or an adjustable wrench at a minimum. They include a hefty amount of PFTE tape, thankfully.

[@johnporter5828]

Twenty years ago, I started with a Watts R/O system. After measuring the amount of waste water produced, I added a permeate pump which Watts sold as a kit. It has worked well for years, pumping the waste water into our hot water system for use. Recently, the old R/O system wore out, and I replaced it with a Watts system with permeate pump included. After a few weeks, it has been working fine, with no water waste either. We live in S. Cal., where water is expensive and not to be wasted...

[@NathanShinn]

How did you get it to pump into your hot water system? Seems like the most efficient option

[@davefowler8041]

John - One of the key things consumers do not understand is the pressure differential across the membrane is the key to membrane efficiency. [Efficiency Rating will be the new watchword and standard from the EPA for RO manufacturers as they all try to get onboard with the new WaterSense testing and disclosure rules] that emphasize efficiency of a system over its entire production cycle vs. Recovery Rate, which can be misleading as you point out. That's why Permeate Pumps are so helpful with conventional air-bladder systems. By keeping the backpressure felt by the membrane very low (typically it's locked in at 5 psi), the PSI delta P stays as high as possible, because the Permeate Pump "presents" to the membrane only 5 psi -- even as the tank is operating at it's psi peak. Another thing to note for your listeners is the importance of water temperature and the dramatic effect it has on membrane production and membrane efficiency. Remember folks, membranes are tested by NSF at 77F. For every 1 degree less than that you lose 2% of production! When sizing an RO system, consider the NET operating pressure, not just the feed water pressure and the Temperature compensation factor. Add these two together to size your system.

[@johnkrystek847]

I use 3/8 tubing for my RO system; will a standard permeate pump be compatible?

[@Handle2015]

Why do the Neo Pure only have 4 stages when most have 5 stages? And why do the Neo Pure come with a permeate pump but the five stage ones on your website do not have a permeate pump?

[@RafaelSwit]

Can you recommend a whole house filtration product that meets or exceeds EPA WaterSense standards? I’m on a city water. I’m an aquarium hobbyists, so my water usage is a bit higher than a typical household. I’d like to reduce waste water production as much as possible, for both environmental and economic reasons.

[@davefowler8041]

Wholehouse is much harder to address. You are better off designing a system with a front end RO system running at 150 - 225 PSI, to a high flux membrane say, 1600 GPD and run this into a reservoir with a double shut off, UV protection, and then repressurize the water with a quiet 2" pump. You will get tremendous production, and steady flow. Make sure to place some digital sensors for Flow / TDS / Recovery Rate. Several good products $$ out there.

[@2001lextalionis]

very interesting, thank you

[@JWoodcock]

I find myself in a very rare spot right now. I'm sitting with the brand new RO system I ordered, and much unlike my usual self - I 100% missed this glaring downside.

[@thejimoquinn]

Bro, I missed your situation by a hair. Came so close to ordering a huge RO system, reviewed a half dozen online, and NOT ONE mentioned the amount of waste water. I would have felt scammed had I purchased. I nearly wet myself after watching this video and then heading over to the various AI's to ferret out the truth about RO systems and the incredible amount of waste. Personally, unless there is 2% or less waste water, they should be removed from the market or at a minimum, be forced to slap a huge orange sticker on the box/website that reveals the truth. Feel like I totally dodged a bullet.

[@0utcast]

​@@thejimoquinnRO has its uses and that's where your water is coming from contaminated groundwater with things like arsenic and lead approaching max allowable limits. If the levels of contaminants aren't that high then you don't need a RO system.

[@thejimoquinn]

@@0utcast Show me a RO product that uses your language to clarify for the consumer the use case that you describe.

[@AlanLogston]

how does the drain water not flow back up into the unit? what if you get a bad clog and both sinks are full causing back pressure?

[@EarthsGeomancer]

Very educational

[@0utcast]

What about countertop units that have a tank you fill. Aka no plumbing to a water supply

[@aggervrftthomas5929]

It is absolutely correct as this u-tube video shows if the system is used in the way shown. But as we use the Enwa Ro plants to produce drinking water or chemically clean water for drilling platforms or on ships or on small islands where you previously had to send the water by tanker, it happens in the following way. We produce from an RO plant to a storage tank - where, of course, there is no back pressure. Before it goes into the storage tank, we send the fresh water through a remineralization filter where we adjust the ph value (this is because desalinated seawater is very soft), minerals are added to the same filter. From the storage tank, the water is pumped through an active carbon filter and finally through a UV filter, directly to the consumer. When you produce fresh water from sea water via Ro-plants, you get about 1/3 of the salt water you pump through membranes - the remaining salt water is used, among other things, to remove the salt coating on the membranes before it goes back to the sea. this brine has a high salt content which is simply mixed back into the sea. Regards ENWA dk Prod.man

[@aggervrftthomas5929]

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[@aggervrftthomas5929]

We produce drinking water with up to 60 bar over membranes and if you use, for example, up to 5-6 bar in your tank for the tap, we still have over 50 bar to produce and therefore still full production of permate for your tank. Or, as we do, you could have a storage tank without back pressure, with a level switch that starts and stops the RO-plant as needed and after the tank a small electric pressure-compensated pump that gives the pressure to the tap, which starts and stops with consumption.

[@wannabelikegzus]

Could you run two or three RO filters at once on the same system and skip the pressure tank entirely? My understanding is that the pressure tank exists to make up for the RO filter's low flow rate. Alternatively, would adding a pump into the system to create higher PSI in the RO filter increase it's efficiency and therefore flow rate?

[@0utcast]

No

[@life2essence]

I bought a permeate pump to attach to my RO system in order to conserve water (water rates are increasing FAST!) but am confused as to how to install it. Watched every video I could find and they all are inconsistent, making it even more confusing. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and hire it out... not sure about the trade off in savings.

[@Forx4Ever]

The best way to maintain the efficiency of the RO system is to use a non-pressurized tank with a float switch...

[@ez-g3090]

Is there a link?

[@TNgo-gi8nj]

Definitely it wastes the same amount of watered it filtered. For every gallon I filter, it discards a way 1 gallon. I observed it. I m not sure future system can reduce amount of waste water. My system wastes with that level, not the same ratio mentioned in this video. I will check if my new system reduces waste water later weeks or months.

[@eugen-m]

Hello John . I have a RO demineralized water production facility and I am worried about the lifespan of the osmotic membrane. the installation produces 250 liters per hour and they use the water to rinse the metal parts. It was put into use 10 years ago. the conductivity is maintained at 10 uS/cm. do these osmotic membranes last forever or should I be worried?

[@fwstraining624]

Great question. Reverse osmosis membranes do have a life span that is greatly affected by the type of water it is fed and the way the system is set up. The higher the mineral content, specifically hardness minerals such as calcium and magnesium, can drastically reduce membrane life. As water permeates through the membrane these minerals are left behind and over time scale will form on the membrane's surface especially if concentrate flow is not adequate. An ion exchange water softener in front of a reverse osmosis system will add life to the membrane by removing the scale-causing minerals. Having good pretreatment to eliminate membrane killers and a system set up to optimize membrane performance will extend life. 10 years of life is awesome. Continue to monitor performance. When rejection begins to fall, that will be a good indicator that replacement time is approaching.

[@eugen-m]

@@fwstraining624 thank you ❤️❤️❤️

[@46L482]

RO water vs.4 times your water bill

[@0utcast]

10 ppm arsenic vs 4x water bill... if you don't have the high contaminants you don't need a ro system.

[@AlDav-zv9er]

sir my Osmosis system 1 year old but I still replaced all 5 filters and I replaced the tank new tank came with 7 psi and after I left 4 , 5 hours tank get full I check the pressure was only 14 psi is that okay? and I wanted one of your videos to replace hoses from 1/4 to 3/5 so I replaced hose from tank to filter to 3/8 since then I feel tank is not getting full and water flow from faucet still same not strong what should I do I am thinking to replace the tank to a bigger tank mine now is T32M 3.2 gallon replace to T55M 5.5 gallon what your thoughts

[@sempertard]

couldn't the drain water be captured and use for filling toilet tanks or used for landscape watering?

[@thejimoquinn]

Sure, but at what cost? You'd have to run parallel water lines to the toilets so they carry only RO waste water. Depending on where your RO system is mounted, routing the waste water outside will be easier, but how do you plan to water? Drip system? You want a sprinkler, going to need to install a pump to get some pressure. What do you with the water to prevent over watering of your plants/yard?

[@0utcast]

It's concentrated waste why would you want to pollute your ground with it?

[@sempertard]

@@0utcast It's still tap water with a higher concentration of minerals and whatever else is in tap water.. Health experts warn of drinking to much RO water as it depletes the body of said minerals. If you live in a place or large city where your tap water is that scary, then I agree, it is waste water. Fortunately I don't. However, I do live in the High Desert where water is more valuable.

[@sexybrunchset8881]

​@@0utcast waste water from ro is not all pollution.