FRFR: Full Range Flat Response - Explained

Today in Plague Scythe Studios, we demystify an often misused and deceivingly simple term in the world of audio - FRFR!
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[@Guitarteacher777]

Regardless of my or anyones' preference on these products you are a hell of a great communicator. Great explanation. Very clear and detailed. If you're not a teacher, you should be. Take care.

[@fabiorivola6803]

I use Helix And Powercab for stage and XLR direct into PA. Easy life big tones

[@HenryGWalker]

God damn, your channel really needs more views, these videos are high-quality.

[@kevinmusso2397]

I just found your channel. I just want to say that was an exceptional video thank you very much I will be subscribing and getting all of your updates.

[@Jaykayea]

Great breakdown man. I'm building an ampless rig myself and was looking at the Headrush for still playing out loud. No bs explanation, you gained a new subscriber!

[@scotttwitchell5121]

Hey man, just found your channel recently. A lot of great info, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@rickfeith6372]

FRFR is a rabbit hole....so are IRs, both nearfield and far field

[@XChristianNoirX]

Get used to FRFR. If you are young and starting out, go straight to FRFR. The quicker you get used to the mic'd amp sound, the better. That's the sound through the PA and in recordings. People who started on tube amps usually have a tough time switching over. It took me a couple years. Now, I haven't switched on my amps in more than a year. I turn them on around Christmas just to make sure they still work. Personally, I'm playing through a Kemper and AxeFXII, with a wedge.

[@djabthrash]

"The quicker you get used to the mic'd amp sound, the better. That's the sound through the PA and in recordings. " WORD ! Except if you're playing in a small venue where the PA is really bad and using actual guitar cabs may be better.

[@XChristianNoirX]

@@djabthrash If you are playing in a small venue, you can also use powered wedges with 0 issues, which can also be used to reinforce the PA. I have Atomic Clr Neo MkII, but there are several low cost options by Alto, JBL, and more. I played a Kemper through a JBL with a single 12 inch woofer and horn at Sam Ash and people were freaking out at how good it sounded... And I'm not even THAT good, so it wasn't my playing. Just pure tone. Sure, the 4x12 can go louder.. But it really depends on how loud you need to go, how many speakers you need to use, and what kind of flexibility you want... And then see if it works with how loud your drummer is. There are hundreds of ways to skin a cat.. If not thousands. I find that digital works for me, because it works everywhere. I guess if you are playing small venues and don't record at all or need the flexibility of digital, maybe and amp and cab could maybe be better, or at least cost effective denoending in the cost of your gear selections or whatever. For my particular purposes, amps and cabs are beasts that are a pain to work with in the vast majority of situations... But I guess I have tons of gear, so... Whatever the case, I believe it's definitely worth getting use to since everyone is also trying to record/produce these days... And play at home.. Everywhere with the tine they're used to. Now and again, I still love me some amps/cabs, but 98% of the time, they aren't convenient for my purposes. If I had a bigfer recording/touring budget... Maybe.. But even then.. I really dunno. Plus, it's rare to have any budget at all lol. I guess it's just one of those things... I actually have both, but digital is the way for me I guess. I'd rather move my rack and CLR around any day of the eek than my Orange 4x12 and 5150 lol. Plus everything sound the same all the time and have hardly any need for other crazy stuff. Inguess I just write a bunch of nothing lol. Just have fun. Learn what you can.

[@nicksherman88]

>>

[@coppulor6500]

@@XChristianNoirX great info/perspective from peeps like me learning more about digital live. Lemme ask you this: wouldn't the ideal be to power an axe or helix with a tube power amp? There are pretty compact heads, rack units etc - wouldn't that provide the feel that's apparently normally missing?

[@claypaktin7655]

As a sound engineer I'll say this. Bands like Metallica uses IEMs (In-Ear Monitors) on stage which ARE vey tiny FRFR speakers that goes in their ears. They reproduce (like the main sound system of a show) as best as possible what their modellers are doing. Having a good quality FRFR speaker makes you tweak things right for the sound engineer to not mess too much and sound good with the rest of the band.

[@89ji76]

Almost every one of your videos I’ve been thinking “mannn, that’s a terrible place to put the left monitor speaker” so I’m glad you finally addressed it lol

[@rsi2493]

Wow. Well done. I finally understand FRFR in the context of music creation and playback.

[@justinTime077]

Holy shit. How did I not find this video sooner? I’ve been researching and racking my brain to decide if I can ever make a multifx unit work for me. People on KZbin love to review and sell these products in their own interest, it pays them to be positive to a fault when talking about products, but this is what I needed to hear. *THANK YOU!*

[@Chance-ry1hq]

Thanks for the explanation, you are a well spoken, intelligent young man. Good luck with your career.

[@RobBaartwijk]

I play a custom Tele that I had assembled by a true luthier. Squire body, Seymour Duncan pickups, Fender electronics, new nut, locking tuners the Works! I only record in my little studio. Early 2023 I bought a Line6 Pod Go that goes straight into my MacBook. I then searched for and bought some proper IRs to use in the Pod and I can tell you that five years after you made this video the differences between true tube amp/cab and a digital emulation is rapidly disappearing. So yes it is true that digital/FRFR was not as good as the real thing but it only took some years of improving the stuff to get on an equal footing. And as you basically say it saves you hassles with different rooms and PAs and the digital stuff does NOT give you a hernia like a Marshall stack does. :) Nice video. I am originally a keyboard player and it is refreshing to find a guitarist who does not start to criticise digital stuff straight away!

[@kitastrophe4083]

I use a Line 6 PODHD500x and a Line 6 Powercab Plus... it's great because the tone I create in the room I'm in pretty much perfectly translates to what I record later. Finding tones isn't reliant on trial an error, back and forth between setting up an amp, setting up a mic and setting levels in the DAW.

[@erocgr00t6]

I run my Helix LT through a HeadRush 112. Consistent tone with very little tweaking. My previous Amps and cabs are collecting dust but won't sell,,, unless I need to eat or something Great Explanation on the subject

[@3745green]

Great video. I use an ax8 exclusively for recording and live. Playing both bass and guitar. Invested in a pair of nice powered pa monitors and couldn't be happier.

[@george-wg6ug]

Just found this, thanks buddy, the penny has now dropped! FRFR sounds the way forward for me now.

[@enterprisesoftwarearchitect]

I agree with the many before me - YOU are an exceptional communicator and this is an exceptionally educational and actionable video. And I now want a Mission Engineering FRFR to go with my Helix - it’s gonna happen ha ha.

[@enterprisesoftwarearchitect]

Cellar Dwellers what A coincidence! I finally got mine this week too! Rock on!

[@pb25193]

Is it better than headrush

[@nicksherman88]

Video well worth my time , very informative. Thank you for what you do

[@lesharrison3739]

Detailed, informative, and articulate. Thanks!

[@richardsemuta1089]

Excellent explanation. I'm about to buy a Headrush 108 to pair with my Digitech RP 500. It might be a little weird at first having a perfect sound, but I can definitely get used to it. And at 2000 watts, I'll never be worried if I'm loud enough for any situation.

[@deasnutz4ever]

As a bedroom player, no gigs or live play, I’m leaning towards a decent pair of studio monitors for Axe fox output. It’s stereo, hi-fi, and should represent the different IR options well.

[@jamesrocks300mf]

thats what i did. adam a7x monitors sound really good. now i want to play live so im looking into cabinets. headrush kind sounds decent

[@brianhastings3903]

i agree with the other comments here, you explained this issue very well.

[@PhilWilliams3]

Very informative and well presented, thank you.

[@arfoe]

Your videos are very helpful and super informative. Thanks so much for this.

[@clintn6677]

I bought the Headrush FRFR a couple weeks ago and it sounds good but I ended up going back to my cab. I wanted something that would work with guitar and bass with my Kemper. It couldnt handle my B string.

[@SuffyANX]

Damn. I assume you mean the bass's B string? I was looking at getting that speaker and running it with a Mooer GE200 for a cheap modeling bass rig to use live, but I have a low A on my 5 string so I was worried about it farting out on me.

[@clintn6677]

@@SuffyANX yeah bass low B. E on up sounded good. When I hit the B it just sounded rough and a bit quieter in comparison of the lower strings.

[@3745green]

I had this same issue as I play guitar and bass through my ax8 live. Tried a bunch of frfr stuff. The Yamaha dxr12 works great for both. If I was just doing bass I'd consider something with a 15 inch speaker

[@astral_spectre2586]

@@clintn6677 you will find that problem no matter what cab you play through that is not an actual bass cab. The fundamental of an open B string is 31hz with an overtone at 64hz. There is typically a 3-6 db drop in sound and some cabs will drop as much at 12 db. The lower the frequency the more db drop you will experience and the muddier the tone will get. The Headrush you're playing through was not designed to efficiently replicate those lower frequency's so you need to use a HPF and set it around 40-50hz and boost the bass at least 3db. This will eliminate the muddy sound and bring the B string volume back up to an equivalent E. These FRFR cabs are great at reproducing the full audio range but NOT at emulating the low end of a bass cab. They just aren't designed to do that.

[@clintn6677]

@@astral_spectre2586 I've since moved back to regular amps since posting it. The Kemper taught me that I don't need a ton of amps and effects. Now I have a KSR Orthos and a JCM800. For bass I just use plug-ins. The band I was in required me to downtune even a 5 string(which I'm not a fan of). I would like to see a modeler and FRFR solution for both in the future

[@davidmcdonnough]

Superior work. Very well explained.

[@scottdufour]

So Ryan, as a fellow owner of an ax8 that is using a coxial frfr from samson, what is your advice to all of us to program presets that will translate to any PA, daw, frfr all the same? what is the preferred method to program the tones so they translate on whatever?

[@BWP-u3y]

Well presented, useful infomation...👍Thanks! After doing the typical scouring of the web for info, taking in all I can, watching this, etc... I went ahead, and ordered the Headrush 1x12"... I've been using Line 6 modeling variations for our guitar tracking for years(PODs, Vettas, XTs, and currently an HD500), but recently the amp I was using to monitor started "flubbing-out" the low end info. Idk.. it was suddenly unacceptable. I'm hooping this cab will translate things better, and allow better decisions to be made on what to tweak... at least thats what I'm telling my cowriter, whos card I put it on.😋 I shall report back, if it sounds good enough for him to not break my legs. hehe

[@Max_94]

so... Tell us How the Headrush 112 behaves?

[@romeou4965]

How it go? I hear the 12 is more boomy than their 8 unless lifted off floor

[@rderfa]

Awesome video, man!!! Thank you!!!

[@threndor9017]

Aren't studio nearfield monitors (like the ones behind you) FRFR as well? Especially if they are active, aren't studio monitors enough for guitar modellers?

[@rhitosparsha]

In a studio environment, yes. But they're nowhere near loud enough for live usage.

[@reecejaksec3619]

Awesome video, super informative. Thank you !

[@Ithumpify]

I'm a old school bass player and want to go FRFR. I haven't played through a tube amp in years so I don't think that part is an issue for me. My concern is playing a 1x12 FRFR that has like a 1000 watts power section will be loud enough on a stage with a hard hitting drummer and a loud guitar player. FOH can take care of that if it's a large room.

[@vikingsofvintageaudio7470]

Great video!

[@mr.esabsurditiesatrocities1805]

IMO, the final hurdle is the speaker cab for digital. And in reality, it’s not the cab alone. What I’ve run in to with IRs and whatnot, is the lack of choices regarding mics, and the one size fits all, pop/rock-ization of the capture. IE: a rear mounted 4x12 with V30s that has an SM57/MD421/R121 an inch or so off the center/cap edge of the speaker in to mid level or vintage/vintage inspired mic preamp set up with a bit of hair. I’m liking what I’m seeing from UA and Two Notes in regards to tone and flexibility, and OwnHammer & Choptones offer some deeper variation, but I think homogenization is really starting to take hold. That’s why I really want to make sure I keep a couple of cabs and mics on hand.

[@engoodz]

The Line 6 Helix offers a '57', '409', '421', '30', '20', '112', '12', & a '7' for Dynamic mics, a '121', '160', '4038', & '414' for Ribbon mics, & an '84', '67', '87', & a '47' for Condenser mics, with the availability for all to adjust the 'Distance' (anywhere between 1" to 12" away), a 'Low Cut' (Off, or anywhere between 20Hz to 500Hz), a 'High Cut' (anywhere between 500Hz to 20.0kHz, or Off), 'Early Reflections' (anywhere between 0% to 100%), & the 'Level' (anywhere between -60.0 dB to +6 db).

[@aliengrey6052]

The headrush cab is the best investment I have ever made

[@Dharqx]

whats your opinion of Atomic Amps CLR NEO II as FRFR cab, I am running Axe FX III Mark II firmware 22 with dyna cab. I am currently using KRK 8" speakers I got on the list for a CLR Neo II cab its on order now.

[@doughitty6348]

Hi I spent a few months doing research on cab vs frfr. Just can't beat a real wood cab. I own a tc 50 mesa with 2/ 2/12 cabs with a ax8 sound is incredible

[@teriakamoto]

Thats a hell of a Rig. You're good. Now you can save for that one guitar you've been wanting. Right ? How do you like the Triple Crown in comparison to a Mesa Dual Recto ? Peace.

[@coppulor6500]

@@teriakamoto "one guitar" lol.... you mean for "those guitars you still want"

[@teriakamoto]

@@coppulor6500 No tiendo ? No comprendo. As in Guitarist always want more ? I just meant like a Mayones Regius or Custom Shop Guitar. I'm very poor,Third World Status. I've had Vintage Gibsons to Custom Shop Jacksons from the 90's to Parker Fly's and a '66 Rickenbacker and sold them all a have a couple decent Guitars now, but will never afford those types again because of disability. So I think, that one Guitar that you really, really want if you had to choose one. Peace-

[@danielhenry4614]

Thanks for explaining I had a axe fx 2 and 2 Yamaha hs8 and I loved that sound I sold last year but I’m buying a axe fx 3 this week is there any frfr that sound just like monitors ? For instance the Friedman asm 12

[@danawakes2001]

What's your take on using a pair of FRFR speakers as a computer audio system?

[@Za7a7aZ]

What am I going to do with a 2000 Watt loudspeaker in my bedroom..? Not much.... ..I need two for stereo..!!.

[@theaustralianhulk]

Do you find yourself still playing through a cabinet at home or through studio monitors with your modeler? Also what do you power your cab with and what cab do you recommend? Thanks!

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

It depends on what I'm doing. Tracking a song, I play through my AX8 for the sake of direct monitoring and signal routing flexibility, and usually through headphones at that. I mainly mix with my monitors. If I just want to jam, its through a real amp and cabinet, though I use my AX8 through the Matrix GT 1000 FX power amp all the time as well. Cabs will come down to personal preference, but a stereo 2x12 is the sweet spot to me.

[@GoofieNewfie]

The problem with FRFR right now is that there is no industry standard. So, every FRFR speaker sounds different. Friedman, Headrush, Line6, Atomic, etc will all sound different.

[@alejandrolimache9518]

Hello, questions, 1) how these speakers behave to play regular music, like for example, salsa. 2) I have a Stagg, electric double bass, how would it would sound with these speakers.

[@mikeaustin4138]

Can you play your amp through gutar speakers and then through a passive FRFR to show the differences? I'm interested in the Synergy modular amps and Synergy's support says that their product sounds great through active FRFR.

[@AndrewStonerock]

Mike Austin I’m afraid you may need some kind of cab modeling for that. The frfr will sound horrendous with just an amp going through it. You’d need an Ir loader like the radar from Moore, or cab m from two notes. Synergy are great. I suppose you could use them with the line 6 powercab, that has speaker modeling built into it. It’s a bit like those eq curves Ryan was talking about.

[@markk9184]

Ah yes guitar cabs. Play bass way more than guitar. Suck at both but it's alot of fun jamming with my buds. Got a Peavey 6505+112 combo to go along with my Schecter 6 string guitar. Used it for a while and started jonesing for something better. Tone is like Crack. Got a kemper and ME Gemini 2(guitar in room sound and then some ). Was really happy when I got it. Got a bunch of profiles thru Sinmix and Choptones. Started wishing for something better, again. Got a few DI profiles(Engl Savage and Peavey XXX) and plugged kemper out into return of 6605+112 which now has a V30. Holy shit does anybody want to buy a ME Gemini2? Gemini 2 started to sound 'buzzy' especially on high gain stuff, cleans superior. My Peavey sounds awesome again! Go geeetar cabs!

[@ssolo8]

Miind blowing info!! Thank you!!

[@AdamManley7]

What are your thoughts about the line 6 powercab speaker emulations? They say it’s less recorded guitar tone and more amp in the room sound

[@MRxr400]

So really, for the old farts like me who have played valve amps till now, I’m trying to get a headrush to work, maybe an option is to run our digital amp modeller into a power amp into a 4x12 guitar cab. Though it defeats the issue of lower stage volume, lighter rigs. I’m hoping the frfr’s im getting will make me more than happy enough. Think about trying the headrush 108’s. Look perfect as a fold back wedge, for a fb mix and for a decent onstage tone/feel

[@EpicStuffMan1000]

hey man, i know this is an old comment but first off props for getting into digital second, the line6 powercab, as well as being an FRFR speaker, can also model guitar cabs and will give you an onstage cab sound like a "real amp", and still let you run direct to PA like it's normally used.

Try using a clean setting on a 5W tube amp....you’ll be very surprised....

[@Shamilt3]

I know this is contrary but the best sound/most genuine sound I have heard is from the ev zlxp12

[@alanlopez81]

can I record with my Headrush FRFR108??

[@djabthrash]

When you're saying at the end that you don't think that FRFR cabs will replace actual guitar cabs, do you realize that these days lots of professional musicians are not using traditional cabs onstage anymore and rely solely on their IEM and/or wedges, whose source is a miked cab (real or virtual a la Two Notes or Axe Fx) ? One good thing about FRFR systems also : you finally get to thear what your guitars kinda sound like through the FOH PA system. Don't get me wrong : i love to hear an actual guitar cab. BUT the sound of a well produced miked cab guitar tone on FRFR speakers or wedges or IEMs is very different compared to hearing an actual guitar cab, but it's quite awesome too ! Some time ago guitar cabs were still a must, but with the recent progress in live sound, with IEMs, dedicated monitor engineers, silent miking (with iso cabs or offstage cabs) or even silent virtual miking (with IRs and Torpedo-like stuff), things have changed !

[@djabthrash]

Guitar cabs sound good on their own,andare pleasing to the guitar player, but what is used and sounds mostly better in a band full mix context is a MIKED cab tone . God bless the Torpedo stuff for that !

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

That's part of what I'm saying - FRFR cabs aren't replacing regular cabinets because a lot of guitarists aren't using either. A lot of bands are indeed going direct and have no stage volume. But those that do want stage volume will likely opt for a traditional cabinet as they are likely more traditional players.

[@djabthrash]

@@PlagueScytheStudios OK makes more sense then ! BUT there are 2 uses for stage volume : 1) for your audience (when you play a small venue with no real PA except for vocals) : in this case a FRFR can sound cool, but so does a traditional guitar cab 2) for monitoring : yes lots of players use IEMs, but there are still a lot of players who like to have wedges or even an actual cab on the side I would say that for monitoring that has stage volume (so not the silent monitoring of IEMs), there are more and more players using FRFR, and there are a lot of players using tradiitonal cabs too (behind them in a traditional fashion, or on the side when they don't want it to mess with the FOH sound).

[@leswadley6792]

Run my kemper stage through headrush FrFr 8 sounds great at home or on stage! Run two btw on stage; the stereo sound is incredible! I just don’t understand the hate! I have 8 tube amps and cabs; when your getting older I’m exhausted after gig! Loading all that out at the end of the night is awful! Just not in my opinion worth the difference you may get through an amp! Plus I’m in a 6 piece band, so guitar isn’t blasting on stage! Great review!

[@goose-ir1tc]

is headrush 108 too loud for play at home?

[@leswadley6792]

@@goose-ir1tc Not at all! Got a volume control on the back! I did a show last night with it! Set it right be side my stage monitor! Sounds amazing! Get one; you want be disappointed!

[@goose-ir1tc]

@@leswadley6792 thanks man! Gonna buy a one soon!

[@TheVenusProjectInfo]

Could VR give us a simulated in the room amp feeling?

[@stuartmiller7419]

Very useful. Thanks.

[@johanndaart7326]

What's the model of this small monitors that you have behind you in this vid? :) Thank you for the video. 11:27 I don't think that's the goal of FRFR speakers. If we want "amp in the room" feel, we can turn off cab/mic sims in our modeler and use some neutral power amp with a guitar cab. If we want to hear how the listener will hear our recording, we should use studio monitors / good headphones, plus check how it all sounds on most popular audio stuff like Beats, iPhone pods and bluetooth soundbars ;) If we want to hear/monitor our PA tone, we should get FRFR speaker. I think we are already here, but for the most part, people don't understand what modelers offer so they get disappointed. Ok, maybe Line 6 Power Cab tries to be this "amp in the room" cameleon, but if it "models" different speakers, we shouldn't call it FRFR to avoid confusion.

[@larryjeffryes6168]

Are there mechanical/kinetic aspects that can’t be replicated in modeling? Is speaker howl related such a aspects?

[@arnyarny77]

i would like to find a good distortion pedal OR pre amp pedal that's actually sounds good straight into the headrush speaker

[@Rudromukherjeenerv]

Try the Mooer preamp pedals! They have a built in IR as well!

[@daverobinson22]

Should be sold with a warning that the horns frequently blow and the replacement cost of just under £100 is a rip off. They are good whilst they are working, my FRFR108 and FRFR112 lasted about twenty gigs before the horns failed, not at the same time but within weeks of each other. I run RCFART710 as well as ART745 with EV ZLX 15 monitors in the same system and never blew a single horn, the reason being that they are quality. The Alto /Headrush / Alesis are not quality, they are over priced budget horns, designed to fail. Would I recommend them ? Certainly not !

[@miserychannel69]

11:40 Would a TUBE power amp (Mesa 295) sound 'better' than a solid state power amp ?

[@sheikhnishad2043]

For amp modeler which is best guitar speaker cabinet or studio monitor or other stereo speaker?

[@radiohead102]

Great info!

[@romeou4965]

I'm more intrigued by the Tech21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe with 1x12", on/off tweeter, wood build, rear breathing ports, HPF/LPF, 3EQ. anyone else try it?

[@berndkiltz]

So in your Opinion: is there ANY difference between a FRFR Guitar product and a good pa Floor Monitor?

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

Barring a few exceptions that sport handy guitarist-focused features, not at all. Something like the Line 6 power cab that can switch between FRFR and "in the room" speaker models has a leg up over a regular wedge, but otherwise has no real advantage for straight-to-desk tones using cab impulse responses.

[@berndkiltz]

Thank you!

[@Shamilt3]

Ev zlx p12, sounds AWESOME $350

[@johnpauldeguzman823]

Could you use a regular guitar cord with an FRFR?

[@rudycastillo6369]

would a hx stomp sound good through a headrush cab

[@pobinr]

Ha you didn't mention most likely reason for hearing loss is exposure to loud music

[@bFOURdwZEROlf]

I need a full range flat response setup :D I need to get down to 20hz

[@nicksherman88]

Can anyone with firt hand experience please share with me the differences, as well as pros and cons of playing through a modeling head like a kemper or axe fx versus using a extensive sAmplitubeoftware package like 4 or Guitar Rig with a power amplifier and cab to jam live or in a practice setting?

[@johnnyringo8174]

FR = Floyd Rose lol!

[@carlosandchrlys7889]

I have the ax8 and headrush frfr..

[@mycroftholmes7003]

so how is frfr much different from a PA?

[@Hmmm7512]

I hear ya on the cant replicate the feel if a real cab setup , so what you recommend if your using lets say a pod go or any modeler as far as cab and speaker? Like a normal speaker cab and the celestion f12-x200 and use whatever amp setup you got and adjust eq in modeler as needed? Thanks..

[@PlagueScytheStudios]

Have you considered the Line 6 power cab? It can change virtual speaker models so you retain an "amp in the room" feel without giving up some of the versatility that comes with direct setups. You would need a MIDI capable device to change speaker sounds on the fly (the POD GO only does MIDI over USB), and the 1x12 format might be limiting to high gain players. But it and the Kemper Kab are about the only products attempting this functionality right now.

[@sailen7298]

What are cheap frfr?

[@jameshetfield672]

Alto 312 is one of the cheapest

[@michaelallen1552]

Speaker cabinets

[@Xyrium]

If you're using a cab emulator (software or hardware) just plug into the FOH, and it's PA, and you're all set, if live. If home, use your studio monitors. This new FRFR junk is a total marketing ploy. :)

[@jakebergen1837]

What about jamming/rehearsal at acoustic drum set volume levels? I've only used my headrush frfr112 for that with my helix and it seemed good to me. Now I also have an isp stealth power amp to drive my hughes and kettner v30 loaded 1x12 and 2x12 stacked on each other but haven't had a jamming opportunity.

[@danc3746]

You said a mouthful. FRFR is ok and I use them, but nothing beats a real cabinet.

[@therealjackfisher]

I think you are a little mistaken. You dont get the same sound always when mic-ing the cab. The room you play in the distance to the rest of your band all changes the way you all sound. With mics everywhere they pick up unwanted sounds. When you use FRFR amp you send clean undisturbed signal to the front of the house and it sound exactly like on your system, the rest is up to the sound man.. If you get shitty sound guy you will have shitty sound no matter what you bring to the stage.

[@robrobbins4906]

Quit comparing FRFR and real guitar cabs. They aren't meant to be the same thing. If you run a modeler through a guitar cab, you turn off the cab simulation. If you plug a modeler into a DAW or studio monitors or a mixing board, you're running FRFR. Good Lord.