From Desert Fathers to Digital Detox: Asceticism Explained | Making History

Welcome back to the channel, Making History!
In this video, Dr. Erika Sigurdson explores the history of asceticism in Western thought. Why do so many of us hate and fear our bodies? What draws us to uncomfortable, even painful acts of self-denial and restriction?
Discover the early Christian monks who practiced extreme acts of self-discipline in an effort to conquer sin. Learn about the people who fled to the desert, walled themselves into buildings, or sailed into the open ocean to escape the temptations of society. And uncover the ancient beliefs about God, the soul, and the body that underpin our millennia-long war on the body.
Join us as we delve into the fascinating history of asceticism and its enduring relevance today.
From Desert Fathers to Digital Detox: Asceticism Explained | Making History

[@immanentPassages]

David Goggins is our modern day ascetic. I just found your video after learning from Andrew Huberman that our Anterior Mid-cingulate Cortex grows when you do things you don't want to do. Wanted to learn how to lean into the pain so looked up asceticism and found you. Really enjoyed this thank you!

[@jcrass2361]

I wish I could read an entire book on the wandering, Irish boaters. I love the idea of them floating in a vast sea looking for god. Medieval Ireland has always kind of fascinated me.

[@makinghistoryYT]

You and me both!

[@docholiday7975]

The voyage of saint Brendan is interesting for the question of if he really did reach north america. Tim Severin's voyage proved it was possible but that still doesn't answer the question.

[@sevengilbert3989]

Your videos are so well written!

[@docholiday7975]

The thing I found amusing about Simeon was that he kept changing poles to get away from people he felt were distracting him from his asceticism, the problem was however, the further and more remote he got, the more impressed and numerous were the people who continued to bother him...

[@kagamiyagami7321]

Thank you for this video. I wanted to hear more about this subject and your video is fascinating and the quality of your voice and editing too. Immediately subscribed

[@roxyamused]

I'll expand on early Buddhist asceticism that I saw the other commenter spoke of. It isn't say as extreme as early Vedic/Yogic asceticism that Shakyamuni/Siddhartha was engaged in before sitting under the bodhi tree barely alive. A milk maid Sujata came and gave him some rice milk (kheera) ending his seven year fast of eating a single grain of rice per month . Through that strength, he then realized that extreme asceticism was a hindrance to enlightenment. Sat under the Bodhi tree meditating for 40 days with the girl coming once daily with rice milk. Battling Mara, he then realized the nature of mind. The other ascetics he practiced with who looked down on him for giving up his fast, practicing in extreme weather, cold, or heat; Vedic asceticism was very extreme that even the Buddha gave it up as the other commenter said. His old ascetic buddies, they were the first to be in the sangha and to hear his first teaching- though no doubt the Sujata bringing him rice milk probably learned a lot too. So they all gave up extreme asceticism. So Buddhist asceticism is probably closer to some christian asceticism, probably early christian not beating oneself with a length of rope or purposely wearing uncomfortable wool (robes of monks are cotton, though maybe a bit rough), but to be alone in the forest or a monastic life of a single meal that has to be given, no sex, drinking, speaking sometimes, etc. Nocturnal emissions (wet dreams) are ok but to engage in sex is a distraction. Of course this is monastics within the Sangha, lay people are fine to do whatever but look towards monastics as examples of wisdom and what they wish to be in future lives. There's a lot of similarities like patrons sponsoring monasteries. Fast forward to early Chan asceticism purported to be done by Bodhidharma, who may or may not have actually lived- kinda like the historicity of Lao Tzu. He supposedly cut off his eye lids in order to not fall asleep while meditating for 9 fucking years alone in a cave. I'm not super familiar with this form of Chan and Zen asceticism as there is say Rinzai Zen which teachers beat the shit out of monks for swatting at a fly during meditation or something. More my training is Tibetan/Himalayan Vajrayana asceticism as I study Shangpa and Karma Kagyu Tibetan Buddhism. It's called Ganges Mahamudra, as Vajrayana extends to Nepal and Bhutan. In my lineage, Jetsun Milarepa is a good example of Himalayan ideas of asceticism that is still practiced to this day. He established our school through his student Gompopa. Milarepa was a medieval Tibetan who is said to have learned the dark arts to kill a bunch of people because his aunt stole the family property after Mila's dad died. His mother kinda guilted him into it. When he came back to the village, he supposedly caused a hail storm that destroyed crops and stuff causing the death of a bunch of his mother's enemies and probably innocent not associated with his mother's enemies. After doing this he left in remorse and sadness at his actions and decided to study the dharma. He searched for a dharma teacher and was instructed to go to Marpa the translator (he said hearing the name of Marpa brought devotion). The Marpa wouldn't teach him but let him stay. Mila knew Marpa was a good teacher. So Marpa said to have put him through trials and abuse, particularly having him build towers out of stone and then having Mila demolish them. He had him do this three times. Marpa said the trials were to purify his impure karma. He then agreed to teach Mila, and Mila then asked to build a final tower that still actually stands in Sekhar Gutog monastery in Lhodrag near Bhutan. After getting all the teaching Marpa could bestow, granting him lineage holder (pretty big deal). After this he really goes into asceticism on par with the Siddhartha's asceticism before reaching enlightenment. Mila went back to his village, distraught at the death of his mother, bones ravaged on the ground, dharma books rotting away, his aunt beats him and calls him a dog. His sister is ashamed of him as he is in rags. He then goes to a cave and sits- this is Himalayan winters and crazy shit. He only eats nettles to the point that it's said his skin turned green, tightening his meditation belt as his body wasted away. He realized the nature of mind. He's said to be a Tibetan buddha. A hunter comes along hearing his first teaching and decides to give him meat. After this, Milarepa has many patrons and students and he wanders from place to place giving teachings and often retreating to caves for whole seasons. If you might be shocked to learn Milarepa ate meat, HHDL XIII Tenzin Gyatso the living embodiment of Avalokiteśvara eats meat. Tibetan diets have for millennia have had lots of fat and meat as much of tibet isn't great for cereals and things like that. HHDL tried to be a vegetarian but it was really bad for him. I've heard this from other Tibetan teachers that have come to my sangha. They have said they wished they could be vegetarian. While I said asceticism is still practiced, and it is, many caves to meditate in are now insulated with electricity! Lamas during the traditional three year retreat in my lineage are supposed to sit in a meditation box instead of laying down to sleep in order to encourage dream yoga! Three years of curling up in this small four sided box in the cold with only a cotton robe and Tummo training to keep you warm, no speaking, one meal a day, etc. So it can still be relatively extreme, but my sangha has has three year retreats in the US. We have rather comfortable cabins with three square meals a day in rural central Washington. I think we'd still think of that as ascetic as they're practicing all day everyday in silence with little human contact for three years, three months, three days, and three hour retreat. I know I've written whole diatribes on your comment section, perhaps without benefit or invite, but this particular subject has interested me a lot throughout the years of searching for a teacher and clear spiritual path. Buddhism has been that for me, so since you asked...

[@vinamacias7546]

Wow!!! I just discovered your channel, and you are doing some amazing stuff here!!!! Thank you so much for this video!

[@booksmith1193]

Good job tonight. The Buddha rejected extreme asceticism. He did practice it on the way to his enlightenment but he rejected it. He taught that you need the body as a basis for the mind and human beings are uniquely well positioned for spiritual practice because we can feel through our senses (discomfort). The mind can transform with effort but without feeling discomfort, we don't want to. The hell beings and hungry ghosts suffer too much to meditate. Animals are not intelligent enough to meditate. Gods and goddesses are too comfortable. The beings of the formless realm (no physical body) are lost in the bliss of meditation. Only humans have the right combo.

[@irawhitlock1084]

This was great. Really high quality channel! Keep up the good work!❤👍

[@piccalillipit9211]

*I LIVE A VERY TINY MINIMALIST LIFE* I get up before the sunrise every morning, I get a cold shower, I do Tai Chi on the balcony as the sun rises over the sea, I don't use heating or AC. It gets to 12C in here in winter, I eat no processed foods just locally grown and reared REAL food, I make my own clothes, ferment my own vegetables... In 2014 I was worth €6 million, then I suffered brain damage in a mugging and lost everything. At first I was ashamed of my poverty and the emptiness of my apartment - but I came to love it, The more I strip away from life the happier, truly happier I am. I live in Bulgaria and my apartment is rented, but it comes fully furnished - I wish it was empty like my last one. Ive had some moments of transcendence over the last 3 years and I can totally "get" asceticism.

[@jimbrittain402]

I never thought of a throughline to modern focus on health/wellness/fitness/organization, from asceticism. Noice. (And are those tobacco pipes in your background?)

[@makinghistoryYT]

Haha, they're my husband's bad habit, not mine 🙄 But they make a nice effect for a history channel.

[@krisscanlon4051]

I fell into asceticism roughly in my 6 th year of my alcoholic sobriety. I fell into AA, ACA, buddhism, psycho spiritual literature and philosophy . My mind is now clear and I'm living a less addictive life. Now i live to the will of the world/cosmos...plus im turning 55...not driven by my urges...my higher brain IE soul is getting stronger as my body is weakening/decaying... Good video btw

[@ankou6]

Your channel is quite interesting, thanks!

[@misseli1]

I wonder whether or not some of the more extreme beliefs against the physical body were influenced gnosticism (which included the beliefs of an evil god creating the material world). By contrast the new testament and most orthodox Christian doctrines teach that the material world is good because God created it and will redeem it in the world to come. I assume the early christians were aware of this, and I wonder how they distinguished their beliefs of ascetism from gnosticism and manichaeism.

[@CeramicShot]

11:31 I loved this video, thanks, but I think the sources on the stylites could use some historicity commentary. Did the stylites really not sit down "for years on end"? Who is standing to benefit from these (clearly impossible) descriptions of legendary feats of asceticism, etc.?

[@joanneballance4898]

That story you told about Simon who stood on one foot for two years while worms fell out of his wounded hip was very descriptive. Could he be Simon from the Simon says game?

[@makinghistoryYT]

Eh, I doubt it. Simon says is a game in English (though I have no idea if originating in England, US, or some other Anglo country), and this Simeon was from Syria. So I doubt they pronounced it the same way. My guess is that "Simon" was just a reasonably common name that alliterates and sounds good for "Simon says..."

[@piccalillipit9211]

*WALLED IN* with servants to bring you food - Gen Z heaven

[@RS-rz9xj]

Too fast--set to 75%

[@Anees-]

Always watch at 1.75-2x speed.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." The whole the material world is bad and we want to escape it thing is closer to the gnostic heresies than Christianity proper. Whatever influence manichaeism had on Christianity (and I'm sure it must have had some sort of influence) are probably either so defuse so as to be insignificant or negative in the sense that Christianity developed explicitly to avoid affirming its doctrines but even then gnosticism already had this influence before manichaeism even existed (which was just Mani's attempt to fuse gnosticism with Zoroastriansim and later half a dozen other religions like Buddhism into one cult). Regardless, St. Augustine multiple times explicitly affirmed the goodness of creation. I have no idea if you're overstating your point or if it was just malconcieved to begin with but please nust reavaluate it because historically speaking it makes no sense. Christians arguing against gnosticism and Augustine himself who was taught gnostic beliefs and who was therefore interested in refuting them all his life, attacked the material world is bad atgiment over and over again as well as the Gnostic Marcionist heresy it smacks of.

[@onceamusician5408]

you can be sure that NONE of these ascetics EVER believed Jesus when he said "my yoke is easy my burden is light;" and the certainly utterly refused to countenance "come unto me all who are heavy laden and i will give you rest" and this is self evident for all of us who thought we have to keep the Law of God, whether harming our bodies, which achieved nothing at all, or not. for we who try to keep the Law of God have forsaken Christ for the Law and are so busy trying to save ourselves as to arrogantly refuse to accept what has already been done on Calvary and also what God proposes to do in us as the gift free grace which is still to come in our own lives if we let Him. so we- and i have been there and done that - will make our lives miserable for NO RATIONAL PURPOSE

[@onceamusician5408]

Christian asceticism is completely exploded by one bible verse . it is exploded as being useless and foolish that verse is "severe treatment of the body is of NO value against carnal indulgence ( ie sin)" Colossians 2:23 oh, and it is also a form of legalism, the belief that we are put right with God by what we call obeying the Law. and this ,I submit, applies when we make up a law and try and keep that one, as in asceticism the entire letter to the Galatians speaks to this: that law does not make ANYONE better . hatred of the body is based on a complete misunderstanding of what the Bible means by "flesh" it means fallen human nature , man (physical bodies, ie flesh) in opposition to the Spirit (non physical) Who is God and that is why harming and hating the body is so completely useless but alas old heretical attitudes from the ancient church linger, even in a secular form

[@Qvadratus.]

you missed the whole point, it is not about being better then anyone else. it is about connecting with God, especially in the times of moral degradation of the society. you can't be part of it and please God at the same time. if asceticism is "completely exploded" by the Bible verse then what about prophets who ate only locusts? didn't get your point about spirit... you mean man has only body and no spirit or what? flesh is flesh and it's desirers, you can't misunderstand it much. better tell us who gave you protestants the same Bible? who determined it's canon? and what about fasting?

[@onceamusician5408]

@@Qvadratus. if severe treatment of the body is of no value against carnal indulgence IT DOES NOT CONNECT US WITH GOD for if it did connect is with God it would be of value against sin, albeit indirectly. and no i was not saying we did not have spirits, but that "flesh" meant "human nature and NOT BODY ". so harming the body does not even address the issue and i was speaking about the sin and foolishness of LEGALISM. and like Paul the Apostle i speak as a legalist who is learning the folly of legalism THE HARD WAY

[@rosepetal-ov7vl]

@@onceamusician5408Jesus himself was ascetic

[@habituscraeft]

​@onceamusician5408 I mean, clearly Jesus at least saw the value in fasting, if only on what might be called 'special occasions' - which raises the question of what he was purifying. It didn't overcome his self-doubts, in the end, so it clearly didn't help him overcome 'human nature'. I think in the context of ritual sacrifice, it seems reasonable to at least consider that the 40 days of fasting was for the purification of the body he was about to sacrifice?

[@juliebittinger46]

Your explanation muddies and denigrates humans and asceticism as it was practiced by early church. The created world is NOT inherently evil( the world religion of what you speak is heresy- a confuser.) God is Creator- everything He created was Good. The Evil one chose- with his gift of free will - to turn away from goodness, thus evil entered the world. Each of us have same choice: aim towards a higher, better version of ourselves that we were created to be... Or, step farther away from the perfection we were meant to achieve/ ascend to. That "climbing the Ladder of Ascent" is our highest goal- that is what true Asceticism is all about.