From Jewish Jesus to Gentile Religion

[@stephenbailey9969]

An important step has been to recover the diversity of Second Temple Judaism and analyze precisely what Jesus and the apostles were talking about. Looking at the scriptures only through a medieval, or sixteenth century, or modern lens often misses important facets of the gospel message.

[@justchilling704]

100% Christianity most properly understood, is a conservative late branch of 2nd Temple Judaism. Much of scholarship is recovering this fact. Now this doesn’t and never did mean it’s only for Jews, proper knowledge and or experience of God is for everyone.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

Just look at Polycarp. He rejected the Roman bishop 's claims of apostolic authority. Polycarp said he followed what the Apostle John taught. We see Passover and Sabbath being kept 14+ years after the crucifixion in the Scriptures. But we do not see what the Roman Bishop Anicetus claims.

[@vibratoqueen450]

Thank you so much for this! I’ve never heard the term “Jewish restorationist eschatology” though the concept rings quite familiar. Where (i.e. books, commentaries) can I read more about it?

[@BobWangwenyi23]

From Jewish Jewish to Gentile Gentile

[@earlychristianhistorywithm8684]

Yeah, title fixed.

[@notanemoprog]

@@earlychristianhistorywithm8684 Also fixing titles? Soldiers, on the cross

[@notanemoprog]

Interesting. Am I correct in concluding that you're using "Jew/Judea/Judaism" and "Israel/land of Israel" more or less interchangeably? Would it therefore be fair to say that you are not persuaded by the recently published work by Jason Staples?

[@earlychristianhistorywithm8684]

Jew/Judean are the same (mostly), while Israel is geography and religious heritage.

[@notanemoprog]

@@earlychristianhistorywithm8684 Thanks for the clarification - so when in Matthew 19:28 Jesus says "ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel", are members of these 12 Tribes all understood to be Jews/Judeans? Or do you see this as a metaphor and understanding it correctly doesn't require detailed inquiry in the specifics of the terminology/language?

[@falconguy4768]

70 AD plus Judaism’s rejection of the gospel (romans 9-11) Paul’s statement of God’s hardening of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in

[@brucekriskovich4975]

Who ate lunch with Abraham?

[@brucekriskovich4975]

Yeshua was worshipped as God by his Jewish apostles. You are ignorant of Judaism and the Hebrew scriptures!

[@notanemoprog]

Now THAT is a charge.

[@brucekriskovich4975]

@@notanemoprog what does that mean exactly? Do agree or disagree?

[@YeshuaLedee]

just to quote your statement: "You are ignorant of Judaism and the Hebrew scriptures!" this also applies to YOU, nowhere in the NT would you find a text or a verse from the Jewish followers in Jerusalem that ever thought that yeshu was ever seen or worship as a g-d, on the other hand it was Paul lunacy that created this new religion using Greek philosophy and by deifying yeshu among the gentiles.

[@brucekriskovich4975]

@@YeshuaLedee you should read the NT before you speak. Start with John 1

[@YeshuaLedee]

@@brucekriskovich4975 What’s your point?? I have read the entire so called “new testament” in Hebrew, Greek, English and Spanish. I just read again in those languages 1st john, to many discrepancies in the original languages to the English and Spanish translations. Plus, the canon of the nt books was completed in the year 430 of the common era, and it so adulterated with Catholic’s views that is not worth the reading even for fun. And verse 1st john 5:7 doesn’t appear in any of the oldest manuscripts of Greek known today’s scholars.

[@johnirish989]

You don't seem to divide rightly. The most correct cutting of His word is that between the gospel of Jesus and the gospel of the risen Christ. And smack dab in the middle is the most important event in the history of the universe: the cross. Two radically different gospels of to and for two radically different groups who have two radically different destinations. The basics: the Jews, Gentile proselytes, the Circumcisionists/the Gentiles, the nations, the Uncircumcisionists; under law, works/under grace; a terrestrial destination/ a celestial destination. The bride of the Lambkin/the body of Christ. And the two radically different gospels are NOT to be mixed because doing so just causes chaos and confusion and brings great joy to Satan.

[@charliemike9940]

Imo, because early Christianity was a mystery cult and had plenty of overlap with the other mysteries. Wouldn't have been too far of a jump. Especially after Paul repackaged it. Feel like there is plenty of source material to back this up, within biblical canon and outside of it. Side note. I do think studying medical sources can really shed light on a lot of NT concepts. ie: Galen, Hippocratis, Asclepious.

[@earlychristianhistorywithm8684]

I don't think so. The thesis that Paul turned the Jesus movement into a mystery cult died out in the 1980s.

[@charliemike9940]

@@earlychristianhistorywithm8684Mostly agree, that's the opposite of what I'm saying friend. Although still very mystery cultish even after Paul, and to this day. That's fine if they abandoned certain thoughts but the evidence of that being the case in its origin is mostly undeniable.

[@charliemike9940]

@@earlychristianhistorywithm8684 To be clear what I am saying is this. The early Jesus movement was a Mystic/Mystery cult. Then Paul, a Mystic. repackaged the Jesus movement making it more palatable for those outside Judaism. Which I think explains the gnostic sect of the belief. I understand some of this in NT could be literary devices. However there is far more evidence outside that just possibility. It's everywhere, especially when engaging the text alongside primary Greek and Jewish sources. (Mystic Paul: asent literature)

[@esoptron3983]

Could you clarify the characteristics that you believe establish early Christianity as a mystery cult? As far as I can tell, early Christianity lacks many of the traits belonging to the title "mystery cult" and only shares those that characterize small/new religion of any variety.

[@charliemike9940]

​@@esoptron3983 Absolutely I will do my best, it's late. The mystery cults have rite of drinking (sometimes consumption of the deity), ecstatic speech (even to the point of needing to be interpreted), divine spirit possession, greater & lesser mysteries, a divine figure of worship, death & resurrection (decent & re-asent ), prophecy, initiation, new hope in the afterlife and so on. Eleusinian, Baccic/Orphic, Mithraic, for a few. My comment is a very condensed version lol. Not saying they all believe the same things. Christianity imo is a combination of Jewish/Persian/Greek unique in its own ways. Again saying what Jesus preached was more mystery/mystic cult than what Paul later preached.Although I think he was a Jewish mystic, early Kabbalah type. Due to the Merkhivah and Mishna. Hope this clarifies things a little. Does this show up?