Frontline/TIME: The Defense of Europe (1988)

Documentary from 1988 covering NATO's defense plans in Europe with a special focus on US forces in Southern Germany.

[@BuckeyeRutabaga]

When I was growing up in the 80s in the Soviet Union and my older neighbors were getting drafted for service, everyone dreaded to be sent to Afghanistan and everyone dreamed of being sent to serve in East Germany. The threat of NATO was largely perceived as a dormant theory whereas the prospect of never coming back home from Afghanistan was a grim reality.

[@HasanibnSabah]

Tell us more!

[@MrBigbird007]

Please do tell more!

[@oakspines7171]

Margaret Thatcher, the UK PM, said Nukes keep peace in the world.

[@uniteddeejys1269]

When I was growing up in the 80s in a country occupied by cccp and my couple years older neighbor recieved a letter of drafting I was dreaded to be called in for service were I could be forcing to say comrade (tavarizs) and I dreamed of being drafted in a service were I can say Aye Sir .. Luckily my dream came true and those tavarizs kapitancis gone home by then.. Naively thought that they never think to coming back but nowadays it seems I was wrong .. and sadly this is also a grim reality

[@marc2638]

@@uniteddeejys1269whoa man what lol??? I’m not getting anything of what you’re saying at all,,,,,, are you Ukrainian is that what you’re saying??

[@marshalltravis3217]

Those woodland BDU’s and black boots! The good old days

[@russiachinanorthkoreastatetv]

Oh you mean when you weren’t in combat so you had to pay attention to meaningless regs….. I’m so lucky I got to join & actually go fight & not have to play Army in the rear with the gear … I couldn’t imagine preparing for nothing but smoke signals

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

My first-generation, European-American, blonde-haired-eyed father looked absolutely cool standing shoulder to shoulder with other soldiers in said uniform in a unit photo that... well let's just say was not very "diverse".

[@markschade6951]

@@russiachinanorthkoreastatetv That's a very ridiculous assessment of the Cold War. It was the largest military buildup in human history even far outpacing WWII.

[@John-or9ccUndauntedRaceCars]

​@russiachinanorthkoreastatetv You do realize we didn't stop wearing woodland number 2's till around 03-04 ish , right hero ? Plenty of men fought in them in Panama, Grenada, Beruit , down in South America , and other places as well. Some got the chocolate chips in 91 and some didn't, same for Somalia, but then there was Bosnia and good old woodland number 2's again . What exactly do you think the first soldiers into Afghanistan were wearing in late 01 ? That ACU pattern sucked balls . Personally in garrison all services should adopt them and polished boots again . Maybe bring some discipline and pride back along with some esprit de corp , instead of looking like rag bags and taking classes on pronouns .

[@rippspeck]

Peak US Armypunk.

[@rx7carl]

The thoughtful, sober, unbiased, well delivered, well written, researched reporting is a sad reminder of how news used to be delivered to us. Real news, not the crap thats called news today

[@BOND19951]

Pretty much. I miss this style of reporting.

[@kevinburt44]

100% agree with you.

[@chobson8602]

Its boring though

[@taylorc2542]

Frontline has the same sickness of all elite media, but sometimes they do good work.

[@numberstation]

@@chobson8602Yes, thoughtful, sober, unbiased, well delivered, well written, researched reporting is boring if you have the attention span of a toddler with ADD.

[@85daniel]

Looking back, thanks to the US army from Germany. Many people did not understand and do not understand today that deterrence is only possible through strength.

[@Oberschutzee]

💯

[@MM22966]

Sorry for all the fences!

[@the_babbleboom]

exactly, it's what kept the nazi officer led nato from daring another barbarossa.

[@Howling.Wilderness.Alaska]

@@the_babbleboom

[@Howling.Wilderness.Alaska]

Yep, smiles and fake manufactured emotions won't keep bad guys at bay. I'm glad they are re-enforcing Alaska finally. They need to bring back the Native Militias and Arctic Rangers though.

[@tomservo5347]

My Dad was drafted during Vietnam but sent to West Germany with the 8th Division. Met my mom there. I later went to Germany with the 1AD after the fall of the USSR although we still trained in our Woodland BDU's and black boots. I don't think anyone anticipated the dramatic fall of the USSR and Eastern Bloc shortly after this was made.

[@loganbaileysfunwithtrains606]

Guy told me the fall of the USSR happened so fast that when he went through basic training the targets on the range were still nicknamed “Ivan” and the training still was based around a conventional conflict with the Soviets. Said the irony of it was that they ended up meeting Russians under friendly circumstances during the fall of Yugoslavia during the Balkan conflicts

[@the_babbleboom]

honestly not hard to tell if you actually read what gorbachev was writing. anticommunist to the heart, was only a matter of time, literally head of the "communist" party then it was inevitable. it's baffling to think people couldn't see it coming, he pretty much outlined the whole thing in texts and speeches.

[@johnhumphrey9953]

I did, I know that it could not last forever, it occurred to me while I was there that I would be there when the whole thing collapsed. It happened just be for I was transferred to the 101st Airborne Divion. 7th Bat, 6th Infantry Regiment.

[@oakspines7171]

I happened to know a few Viet Vets as Helicopter pilots who were stationed in Germany, then sent to Korea, then to Vietnam.

[@uniteddeejys1269]

Yes, You're right.. but on the other hand it was also "lucky" occurences that followed each other.. I mean the lucky change that Gorbi become the premier .. I believe if antropov don't pass away and he stays much longer then history could have very different now .. In a paralell universe ('cos I don't even dare to think about what could of happen) IF Gorbachev couldn't win the power BUT putin follows antropov straight in kreml then wall didn't fell, Sat states (included mine) still wearing the red star on the top of the parliament .. bla blabla.. so on by everyone worst nightmares .. Thankfully is just a playable scenario in the 1995 PC game C&C Red Alert @@the_babbleboom

[@4700_Dk]

Was stationed in West Germany in a place called Illesheim from 83-85 with a Scout Platoon. All our vehicles were combat loaded. Hated the Alerts.

[@uszone1]

Hi there, greetings from Illesheim, middle franconia! I can still remeber the big sign of the 101st on the wall of the big machine hall :-)

[@tinman3586]

Lots of these same guys would get deployed to the Persian Gulf just a couple years later and trash a large Soviet-equipped army in a matter of days.

[@matovicmmilan]

So, 36 countries managed to partially defeat a single country, exhausted by 10 years of war with Iran and 10 years of total economic sanctions, armed with obsolete, export-oriented, often smuggled in equipment. The most powerful SAM were SA-6 Kub and SA-3 Neva systems, both obsolete by Soviet standards as the USSR replaced them with the Buk family. The best tank was the export M (and potentially M1) variant of the T-72 at the time when the USSR used the T-72B (modern armor, FCS, engine etc.) and T-80 with the latest APFSDS and 5 km range guided missiles. Is this the maximum they can go against?

[@ronaldtartaglia4459]

​@@matovicmmilandouche

[@Paulfromwish]

@@matovicmmilanpractically none of the current day Russian arsenal and back in the 90s have or had thermal optics so wouldn’t have mattered they are useless without it. Limited Russian inventory with actual optics are for show only let alone exports

[@matovicmmilan]

@@Paulfromwish Sorry to spoil your wet wishes but not only does every Russian tank model possess thermal imager (some have 2; for both gunner & commander), but Russia is able to equip its suicide drones with thermal imagers.

[@Paulfromwish]

@@matovicmmilan certainly news to me, They can build the inferior French system under license and is available on the T80U and M export variant only. Very few T80 in the Russian inventory were fitted in the mid 2000s, but this system could not identify targets at range, thus russia heavily invested in night vision systems that at the time were considered superior at range in the early 2000s but those were also not fitted to many models. Today they don’t have modern production variants of either. I’m very interested though can you provide the source on that? Genuinely interested to be wrong because this is how I understand it Edit ( unless you are referencing light ampflication sights ) then yes limited models received those as well as Sosna but these are neither modern thermal imaging sights as we understand them today Saying every or most tanks have thermal when technically it’s practically none with current production being the T72B and t72C have neither 1960s system T72b (budget) and T72C ( can’t see )

[@TFT-bp8zk]

If you haven’t read Harold Coyle’s Team Yankee, you’re missing out.

[@KoishiVibin]

team yankee is mid

[@mrflynn510]

​@KoishiVibin and you are cap

[@KoishiVibin]

@@mrflynn510 like 90% of hot war fics are made aggressively mid by the fact that the author clearly has Strong Views somewhere about Something and so you get stuff like Red Army and the author really rubbing one to the soviet army or Team Yankee and the author giving the same to the united states what saves both are the individual tales and viewpoints instead of clancy hack-fics where everyone is having a fangasm to the latest shiny toy... which to be fair are like 70% of hot war fics and why TY/RA are actually so good, it's because they're mid in a sea of trash.

[@mrflynn510]

@KoishiVibin "author has strong views". People with strong knowledge tend to have strong views.

[@mrflynn510]

@@KoishiVibin whereas people with anime avatars tend to have trash tier opinions.

[@turtle19dad]

Hard to believe that after seeing this, the 11th ACR is now the “OPFOR” at NTC. With exception of 3/11 ACR.

[@MM22966]

Heck, 2nd Cav is rolling around Eastern Europe now in their Strykers, and they started off chasing indians in the Florida swamps in the 1820s...

[@marc2638]

I grew up in grossauheim just 40 minutes south of fulda and in the 1980’s I can tell ya right now a Russian invasion was a real possibility for us Germans it was a legitimate fear, I was scared as a kid that they would come over and pay us back for what we did to them in WWII. I was born in 1978 in hanau my mother met my dad in 1980 we would leave Germany and move to the states in 1987 after he got out of the army, I’ve been back twice. I have since then enlisted myself and served in our wars to show my respect and appreciation for having been given permission to come here and live, I’ve had a good life here can’t complain I have two kids of my own now 24 and 19 both boys and I’m also a grandfather, I sometimes wonder what would have been made of me if I ever decided to go back to Germany because I did not like it here at first whatsoever and actually went back home to live with my grandmother for a year as it went I came back to my mother in the end and made America my home. I remember the Russian scare it was legit, it was real, it was something that every German at the very least thought about so for most Germans in the 80’s having America in our country was more than welcoming and more than tolerable, it went beyond accepting it was over our actual lives and way of life we knew and felt and believed if America left Russia would immediately move on Germany and take it it was as simple as that, growing up I never heard anything negative about Americans being here, I mean I grew up in hanau with an American base and or installation if that’s what you wanna call it around us and we had Americans everywhere it was just part of our lives and I just don’t ever remember seeing anything negative about that

[@evanfinch4987]

I can't thank you enough for uploads like this.

[@boobtuber06]

I absolutely love stuff like this, POST MORE SIMILAR

[@lordflash4312]

11th ACR Wildflecken 1992...it was a fascinating time to be there during the drawdown, and just get time to see what the guys did before us out at the Eastern border. A great time to be alive.

[@airforce5400]

Would you be able to point out what that box on the web gear with green tape is? Seems like SOP dictates it should be taped to the left side of the Y harness.

[@chejlr]

I was in Fulda back in late 70s, A troop 1/11ACR. What memories this brings.

[@schlirf]

ALLONS!

[@sfc.m]

BK,... HOW 2/11 Warlords 82-84 Second to None,... 😉

[@soldat2501]

If there was ever a time when the Soviets really, really considered making a go of it, it was back then. After Vietnam when America was perceived to be weak. Anti-Nuke and peace hippies ruled Europe. Communist groups were everywhere, in every country - Red Army Faction in Germany, Red Brigades in Italy, etc. Only you guys gave them pause to think harder on it. In the end, they decided not to F around. Cheers to you. I joined the USMC in 1989 at the end of the Cold War and remembered memorizing silhouette charts of tanks and planes. I kept a copy of Red Storm Rising and Team Yankee by my bed growing up.

[@BLUECHET]

C trp here .

[@happynowfarms]

At the 50:00 minute mark the US Ambassador said no politicion would ever suggest reducing 100,000 troops from Germany. Forward three years and 100,000 plus going back to the States. This was filmed in 88 and November 89 would see the Berlin Wall drop and the Soviet Union collapse soon after.

[@Gr8thxAlot]

It is amazing this is one year away from the wall falling. I forgot how tense things were back then. If you would have told either side back then, that in 2022 Russia would be invading Ukraine, not West Germany, they'd think you're crazy.

[@Perseus7567]

@@Gr8thxAlot Not to be "that guy" but most of this was actually filmed in 1986, during REFORGER 86 exercises.

[@idget600]

Spent 77-79 with 3rd AD. I grew to understand it was a display of force/deterrence that obviously worked. As a medic overseeing ranges in Horensfeld and Wildflicken left me in awe many times. Seeing an impact range be lit up at dawn on an ice cold February morning - Infantry, artillery and air attack simultaneously took my breath away. My co-medic and I looking at each other and saying, "what, in God's name would survive a sustained barrage of that magnitude?" The answer? Absolutely nothing.

[@aesonmoritz2100]

Spearhead! 143rd Signal BN & 503rd MI YEAH!!!!

[@KoishiVibin]

A surprising lot will survive that. but assaulting armor is less protected than armor dug in backed up by AA and interceptors...

[@specksalat]

Big thank you to all the former American soldiers here in the comments who’ve served here in Germany and secured our freedom 😊

[@zmilorad]

What 70 years of occupation does to people. Are you aware that Germany is not a sovereign country but US puppet and you thank them for that?

[@thoorwulfn9z383]

occupation forces

[@johnhumphrey9953]

you are welcome. for in my view, it was not just for Americans, it was for all our allies.

[@MaSoNGaMeR115]

have some dignity bro

[@cs7511]

62nd Aviation Company 1985-88. I believe this was filmed during REFORGER 86 in January. It was cold!

[@ThePizzaGoblin]

Man, this narrator is still working for PBS. Good for him

[@geoffmcnew5863]

A21 533d MI BN, 3AD "Spearhead"...TS/SCI-cleared and RU language trained...spent 2 years in training before I went to Frankfurt in '85....I thought, we'd won when I went home. FJB!

[@BLUECHET]

I knew SFC Winn … I was in his troop two years after this aired .

[@uniteddeejys1269]

Thank you for the time and effort to upload this.. Great Archived Content! I hope it is not going to be happen as a future projection by 10-15years from today :( ..

[@PrimarchX]

Most of those WP 'observers' are from what are now NATO countries!

[@kamikazemelon787]

Wow, fascinating, and fantastic. Thanks for sharing

[@blackhorsecav1]

Shout out to all of the Anvil troopers from 86 - 90 - Alpha Troop, 1/11 Armored Cavalry Regiment.....

[@turtle19dad]

564th MP Fulda/Bad Hersfeld 1991-94

[@Jrplatt]

This is fascinating watching from 2024

[@BLUECHET]

Many of us are still in contact with each other from all those years ago . We could still do it if we had to ….

[@evanfinch4987]

what

[@fudbot]

Wow...I was there when this was filmed. Part of 3rd Armored Div 2/67 Armored Rgt based at Friedburg West Germany.

[@Jay121]

I remember watching this on PBS when it premiered. I think i had just finished reading Red Storm Rising that summer.

[@garyinmaine1278]

I was there TDY several times in 77&78 . 8th Inf. 1/8 CSC recon, I was also at OP india once.

[@kristiangoransson6104]

The times are changing, the A10 is mentioned in the same sentence as high tech advantage. The very plane that’s been on the chopping block since 1990 because of its low tech and gritty mission

[@royp6953]

I got to Bitburg, Germany in Dec 89... quite a trip

[@conanc1487]

The closing age of the analog Army....

[@erikvanern6178]

Germany 88-92 U.S. Army M.P.!

[@conradsz]

I’m Polish. Before after 1945 and 1989 Poland was obviously under USSR/Russia boot and the army was part of the Warsaw Pact. My father was in the military. He told me that they were trained to attack Denmark and Northern Germany as part of the Soviet invasion in Europe. I’ve later confirmed this since documents have been declassified

[@KazenoniKakuremi]

the production and dialogue of the journalist is dropped so far from this standard Although, frontline still does great work -everyone else has dropped so low

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Frontline just parrots what the just parrots what the left say but still yeah.

[@Ivan2294]

​@@johnnotrealname8168 maybe listen then

[@grayflaneur4854]

Oh, this so reminds me of time in the U.S. Army. I almost can't relate to the current day army as the force structure was so different. I was a IIH and eventually an NCO (E-6). It was all about hunting Soviet armor and mechanized infantry.

[@bpdp379]

Yup. Your MOS doesn’t even exist anymore…

[@oldreliable3506]

I was at bad kissengen 80's 2/11 a.c.r.! allons!!!

[@sfc.m]

Eagle Horsed 82-84. 😉

[@friendofcoal]

I was there 84-85 C-Btry 2/41st FA 3ID....

[@reallyhappenings5597]

A lot of this field gear is still for sale on ebay

[@johnwalsh4857]

who would have thunk 34 years later the Russians would be fighting their fellow USSR member Ukrane and NATO would be much supporting Ukraine .

[@bazejs8084]

A very interesting movie. Lots of great footage. Regarding the anti-nuclear protests - did the USSR population also raise such large-scale protests against deploying Soviet nuclear missiles in their area in USSR or only western Europeans protested?

[@Hideout2468]

protests of that nature were of a western occurrence primarily. You simply didn't protest in the eastern bloc.

[@thesovietcarl706]

most of the time Soviet citizens were largely unaware of missiles being deployed in their area, the only ones who were really aware were those who were stationed to the bases

[@jaydaviston8612]

Mainly pampered Westerners. There is some credible speculation that Western Nuclear Disarmament groups had been infiltrated by Eastern Bloc intelligence services..

[@timkey_4542]

as already said protests in the eastern block were quite rare. Also as has been revealed by now, the western peace movement was to a certain degree supported by the Soviet KGB. More or less the same it is now with right-wing politicians in the west receiving Russian support

[@wingitprod]

They were 5th columnists/Marxist/globalist agitators. Essentially antifa. @@timkey_4542

[@macsdaddy3383]

Wow! 1988 was my 1st year in U.S. military service and all I heard then was only about how it was feared that forward deployed troops in West Germany were really going to be nothing more than just a speedbump in the Fulda Gap in the hopes we could slow the Warsaw Pact down if it all should come to blows. Had a number of buddies I went to AIT with who were dreading the thought of graduating AIT and then being sent to Germany in the middle of February to become POL Clerks at some god-forsaken forward OP/LP facility or at one of the big maintenance facilities. It amazes me how so much of what was reported on then in this video in 1988, we Americans found out all these years later to be true, or, to become true later, esp. after Gulf War 1, and certainly now with what we have learned about Russian (still using former Soviet doctrine, tactics, and equipment by and large) losses in the Ukraine. It was all mostly smoke and mirrors as to Warsaw Pact's ability to successfully prosecute a war. And today many of those same Warsaw Pact countries are staunch NATO member's esp. Poland.

[@M81_WOODLAND]

One of my tank commanders was stationed in Baumholder in the 80s. He told me they had preplanned defensive positions in the event Soviet armor would come streaming through the Fulda Gap. They basically told them "this is where you will make your stand and die."

[@shamsuaddinrachedi792]

aLl aMmO sPEnT lmao who here after a 10 hour warno binge? is it just me?

[@davidosuna5795]

Was in 1st Bn 33rd Armor in Gelnhausen 1976-1979 went to the Fula Gap many times

[@dannynolan818]

I was stationed there in 81_83 2nd bn 48inf

[@TheTitaniumSkull]

Allons!. 1986-1990

[@BLUECHET]

We as young American soldiers were far far better trained and led than the those of the eastern bloc….. I as a private had a map and could land navigate with it and possibly even direct artillery fire 🔥…. It would never come to that but I was trained to do so …. And more actually… we could operate all systems on our fighting vehicles ……we were well trained.

[@Cotac_Rastic]

Average survival time : 15 minutes

[@daviddevault8700]

@@Cotac_Rastic I think NATO would have won. We are encouraged to take the initiative, not to blindly obey. We can perform at several levels higher than our rank.

[@Cotac_Rastic]

@@daviddevault8700 You're entire doctrine was literally 1. Dig hole 2. Fire AT weapon 3. Rip off uniform patch and sprint for the hills of become soup in the hole

[@daviddevault8700]

@@Cotac_Rastic American Generals write American doctrine. Warsaw Pact officers read doctrine. American soldiers make own battle plans.

[@Cotac_Rastic]

@@daviddevault8700 LoL, you have never spoken to a member of the West German garrison and it shows, Americans look at the Soviets blitzing to the rhine and go "Fck that im outta here"

[@metubetoday1]

7:43 now that's fine binocular warfare.

[@CuttySobz]

Can you actually imagine being a serviceman on either side during the fall of the Berlin wall?? My God so many fascinating stories we will never know....

[@reddevilparatrooper]

NATO also have infantry anti-armor teams in every infantry battalion and armor battalions. Each US infantry battalion has 4 rifle companies and one anti-armor company consisting of dual launched M109 Improved Tow Vehicles. Each infantry platoon might have sixteen M47 Dragon missiles, 4 to each squad. Headquarters Company will have a platoon of M109 ITVs before M1 Bradleys were ever deployed to US mechanized infantry and M2 for cavalry scouts. Meaning every infantry fighting vehicle would be capable of engaging Soviet armor especially tanks with TOW missiles. BMPs can be destroyed with the Bradley's 25mm chain gun in support of it's infantry dismounts. The Soviet BMP was ahead of it's time from the US M113 which was still used in Germany in the mid-late 1980s. The Soviets designed the BMP as an infantry fighting vehicle as the M113 as a "Battle Taxi". The Bradley is far superior in firepower than any BMP that uses 1960s and 70s optics and fire control. Next is combined arms training and NATO command operability, Warsaw Pact have very difficult operational standards. The Soviets have trained and indoctrinated Warsaw Pact nations to do one thing, that is to attack forward and soak up NATO ammunition so Soviet Forces can attack as follow up forces and Warsaw Pact armies would be cannon fodder. Very simple plan and method. This is what a "Future" 1980s battle would have become if Europe became WWIII.

[@RaptorCots]

😂😂😂😂😂 silly man..

[@jessphuqette1716]

Bad Tolz in 1978. Good times

[@Dbear39]

We knew the Russians struggled with their tank engines in the 80s, and they still haven’t figured it out! Given their dismal performance in Ukraine, even if their tanks and tactics might have succeeded in the 80s, they sure do not work in the 2020s. Echelon attack and numerical concentration are no longer enough, if they ever were. Air Superiority has always been the deciding factor, something Russia will never be able to afford.

[@numberstation]

They’re not using the tactics of the 80s, the situation is entirely different and Western supplied tanks have fared no better in the same environment. The widespread use of drones and satellites supplying real time battlefield information means any significant concentrations of men, armour and equipment are quickly identified and targeted. It’s a war of attrition and the deciding factor seems to be artillery, whoever has the most guns and shells will prevail. One side has a massive advantage there. As for establishing Air Superiority, that’s extremely difficult due to the effectiveness of modern surface to air systems. Again, one side has an abundant supply while the other is begging all around the world for them.

[@reallyhappenings5597]

How the Soviets fell, they now spend the last of this once-fearsome military power in Ukraine.

[@bigman6424]

Getting demolished by drones

[@mattwest250]

Combat Patches were pretty rare back then, I see. I served during a good chunk of the GWOT and we just took them for granted.

[@macsdaddy3383]

Ya, Vietnam had been over with for 13 years by then when this documentary was produced. 1988 was my 1st year in and there were a few combat patches to be found on E-5's and E-6"s, but they were by and large all from the Grenada Operation.

[@mattwest250]

@@macsdaddy3383 Were you in Desert Storm? I love reading about that Conflict, It's kind of like the root of everything I did during my service.

[@macsdaddy3383]

@mattwest250 I was in the military during that time, yes, but I didn't go anywhere instead staying CONUS. But not to worry, my Uncle, Sam, saw to it that I would make it over there eventually. I've deployed twice to the AOR over there for about a year and a half in total.

[@southwestxnorthwest]

One of the biggest weaknesses of the Russian military is conscription. Wothout volunteers, you have high attrition rates and few skilled non-commissioned officers to lead their troops. Moral is low and very few soldiers or service members remain who have leadership and experience.

[@jwf1964]

I served in the BRD w 2-6 IN, 2D BDE, 1 AD. Ferris Barracks. Felt a great deal of resentment coming from Germans. Considering history, ie, we gave them democracy against their will and thru the sacrifice of our soldiers, it made me resentful right back. Then I went to our GDP on the border. The Germans there lined the streets waiving US flags. The kids loved us. We gave them MRE candy and chem lights. We played American football w them. I came to love Germany and still view as my second homeland.

[@marshalltravis3217]

What a great memory.

[@ayebing]

Col. Thomas White later went on to become secretary of the army from 01-04

[@tommym321]

You guys ever see Buffalo Soldiers (2001)? Great movie 😂

[@PowermadNavigator]

5:10 I am afraid that the case in at least one of the former Warsaw Pact nations which is now a NATO ally is still the same...

[@DrGalazkiewicz]

0:27 Apple watch prototype? 😀

RCAF had 6 bases in Europe 2 in France and 4 in Germany with CF100s F86 ,Cf104 starfighters and CF18 HORNETS all nuclear weapons capable

[@rippspeck]

Virtually every single NATO member had bases in Germany back then.

@@rippspeck your point being?

[@Berzilla]

Dont forget about Giessen and Friedburg

[@daviddevault8700]

Very good documentary. I understand the need for nuclear deterance. I don't understand putting resources into nuclear parity, or the viability of static land based nuclear missiles. I feel that those resources would better be used to gain superiority in another relm of military power.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

I think at that point it became a signal to the soviets, this is why it went to a committee.

[@timhamilton4024]

Regarding parity, see the concept of counterforce. For land based missiles, the answer is simple. They are the only means that is available to strike a moments notice. Submarines are only good first and retaliatory strikes. Bombers require too much time and are much more vulnerable to first strikes.

[@jwf1964]

The triad provides incredible redundancy of retaliatory systems. Basically locks the door on the idea a nuclear war is winnable. Air Force has declassified some analysis supporting triad. It's from the 1970s. Think you can access thru their FOIA website. Brilliantly and, in my opinion, irrefutably supports triad.

[@michaelmulligan0]

Wasn’t the same said about the Ardennes… more than once ?

[@anthonywilfredwong4545]

Don't forget the DMZ in Korea.

[@schlirf]

ALLONS!

[@BLUECHET]

Fulda Ctrp.

[@schlirf]

@@BLUECHET C troop 83-86

[@BLUECHET]

@@schlirf 1st plt 90-92

[@schlirf]

@@BLUECHET ...and before I forget: did you put in for Tinnitus yet with your friendly neighborhood VSO? No? Do it NOW! 🙂

[@TheCleansingx]

Kino

[@jyy9624]

France, Norway, Sweden Finland Denmark Belgium Spain Italy Luxembourg all had conscription during the cold war. Now no one. Meanwhile in Taiwan and Korea

[@bigman6424]

Norway has conscription... Hell now women have to conscript too, it's just that we want higher expectations of soldiers, so it's harder to get in

[@jyy9624]

@@bigman6424 that sounds excellent - some people like Israelis don't have that option

[@THEEJuror13]

Looks like my backyard.....

[@uss_liberty_incident]

4:28 The contrast in body language between these two generals is quite stark. General Izydorczyk looks as if he's worried about ever being ordered to fight against US and West German troops. I'm thankful that never happened. 7:10 It hurts my heart to know that the America SP4 Davies would be proud to die for no longer exists. I want to be able to have that kind of pride in America.

[@CB-ke7eq]

"Sergeants aren't supposed to have maps, only Colonels can have maps!" And that folks, is another great example of backwards Red Army doctrine that continues into today's Russian Army. The lack of a serious, empowered NCO corp just won't do on the modern battlefield. Shit is happening way to fast to wait for commands from the rear.

[@hawlikd]

Those BDUs & black boots eh!

[@protocoldroid7388]

Okay, now I'm really worried about the Soviets. Great : (

[@jeremy28135]

25:20 everyone’s mom in the late 80s

[@tracybethune200]

While observing russian forces in ukraine its obvious that they don't have a tactical or logistical advantage and that the weapons systems we have given to ukraine are superior than the russian weapons! The Bradley Fighting Vehicle is very effective against russian tanks

[@matthewwaddington2777]

Hello Hillary Wood-rough...

[@Page-Hendryx]

Wood-muff.

[@h.nguyen4193]

"Our skills will beat their numbers" where have we heard this before. Dien bien phu, Khe Sanh....

[@Perseus7567]

And to be fair, they were right. Most Vietnam War engagements were either a US victory, or resulted in a significantly higher loss of NVA/Viet Cong losses compared to American losses. It's believed 58,220 Americans died in Vietnam, and around 250,000 South Vietnamese (trained and equipped mostly by Americans) were killed. On the flipside, around 1.1 million North Vietnamese combatants were estimated to have been killed. That's a 800,000 deficit. That's 3.6x as many casualties. For every single US or US-Trained troop that was killed, 3.6 North Vietnamese combatants were killed. Literally what they were saying in the documentary. Skills can, and often do, beat numbers. How do you think Britain, a tiny island nation (comparatively to most other powerful nations), managed to conquer 60% of the world's land mass? It certainly wasn't through having a numerical advantage, I can tell you that much.

[@h.nguyen4193]

@@Perseus7567 You have no idea what you're talking about. Foreigners have no idea how many combatant they killed during the Vietnam war. Body count doesn't work because you have no reliable reporting of said kills. The reason why the Brits conquered the world is because they got lucky and too advantage of the industrial revolution fool. If the Brits came the China during the reign of the Chinese first emperor you would of been defeated.

[@THEEJuror13]

"Ironically, the germans forgot that they ripped the world in half and created this mess. "

[@adventureguy4119]

Not nearly 40 years later nuclear was is possible

[@socrates6870]

What a paradox, at the end of this documentary the the narrator says: "So it has been for more than 40 years and if the soldiers, statesmen and diplomats we have been listening to on this program are right, so it'll be for another 40". Unfortunately 34 years later Russia attacks a middle size country in Europe and the Alliance cannot decide how and with what weapons to help them, how to replenish heavily reduced stocks and stop the aggressor from continuing the war...I guess they have forgotten what kept us safe for neatly 77 years...unity and determination to stop wars from escalating...

[@nils9853]

Well Ukraine is not a NATO member. So you cannot compare this, with the scenario from this documentation. And I do not know if it is about the ability to decide, or more about the money it needs to be spent. NATO countries back then invested much more in defense. And politicians have to make a decision if they want to spend billions now for systems arriving in 4-8 years when probably Russia has a new leader and is cooperating again. So then you have either the running and maintenance costs for a system you do not need anymore, or you have to scrap brand new systems and get asked critical questions why the money was not used to build roads and schools and improved healthcare.

[@socrates6870]

@@nils9853 That's a very optimistic view of yours...the way i know the Russians they won't have a pro-Western leader in 4-8 years...my view is not so much about whether Ukraine is in NATO but about how we react do conventional war escalation in Europe compared to how we reacted in the 1990s due to generational change of the politicians that lead us...many military experts say we aren't prepared should the Russian go further West...

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

I'm going to go back in time to 1988 and tell everyone that it would be the GOP that would abandon NATO and Europe to Russia and allow the USSR to be reconstituted.

[@wingitprod]

Nice copy.

[@xusmico187]

Ukr today. How does ukr hold up the ru?

[@Gr8thxAlot]

4:02 Vladimir Putin disguised as a solider.

[@faschwank]

Angela Merkel destroyed Germany. All that hard work and dedication for nothing.

[@dix0n778]

Would you like to know more?

[@user-fi6xy1ji8l]

(need to know more intensifies)

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

You Euros pissed it all away. Starting with Germany. I thought Poland was Europa's Hope, but nope.

[@thoorwulfn9z383]

wdym

[@bigman6424]

​@@thoorwulfn9z383god knows, just some wacky Ami

[@friendofcoal]

And today, we are again in another Cold War.... Cold War II (version 20.0)...!!!!!!!

[@R.Specktre]

I don't think NATO realized how outmatched it was back then and now, Russia, again, is in ascendancy because it's production and outpaces the West. This reminds me of the movie War games where it was decided that the best way to fight world War III was "not to play". Let's hope our mutual leadership sees that movie again.

[@R.Specktre]

Wonderful to see 80s Judy Woodruff again.

[@Crashed131963]

With Russia's dismal military performance invading Ukraine ,I think NATO war worried over nothing . Russia was a big bluff .

[@tomcluny8423]

"it's production and outpaces the west" >Is now down to having to field stock t54s and mtlbs in frontal attacks. >has to buy ammunition and missiles from north Korea and Iran. But yeah I guess Russia is totally outpacing the west!

[@JeepWrangler1957]

News flash…whether it’s a nuke or a 155mm artillery barrage. Both will destroy you

[@preserveourpbfs7128]

Well sure, but the aftermath of a nuke is just a touch different than the aftermath of a conventional artillery barrage.

[@ronaldtartaglia4459]

Will Lyman one of the greatest narrators of all time

[@fredlandry6170]

The Soviets would have launched a massive attack with missiles raining down on NATO targets and civilian facilities and Spetznaz teams would have attacked as well. I remember seeing this as a teenager.

[@Perseus7567]

Literally what they were saying about the Nuke Paradox at the end of the documentary. If The Soviets launched a massive missile attack, NATO would've launched one right back, and the Soviets would've gotten equally destroyed. The Soviets weren't same magical action hero who could've tanked several nuclear detonations Rambo style.

[@megathicc6367]

Thinking you are only gonna get nuked because of nuclear missiles is the most stupid thing I've heard. No your gonna get nuked by the soviets just for having a conventional army. I thought the US was the only one suffering from lead water poisoning at the time but I guess not.

[@Perseus7567]

Not entirely true. If there were no nukes in Germany, the Soviets wouldn't need to nuke Germany. If they were going to invade and try to conquer the world, nuking German land so that it's completely unusable and impassable isn't a good start. It's literally what they were saying in the documentary at the end; the Nuke Paradox. If there's no nukes there, there's no reason for you to nuke them.

[@johnbecker5213]

judy's hair sure looked good, much better than todays hair styles

[@Gerpolitica-Paraguay]

What a madnes, the end of the World was so near...and now the iron courtin is again falling, what a terrible situation. Maybe the end of Times is truly near. 😢

[@Ozymandias3505]

Absolute Drip

[@BernieRunns]

I miss the USSR. As a kid growing up in the US in the 80s I used to dream about moving to the Soviet Union and being a communist.

[@NorceCodine]

Halfway through I began to wonder if the experts were not in fact escaped patients from a lunatic asylum. Jesus, to think that these people were actually in charge of defense.

[@KoishiVibin]

What's wrong?

[@johnnotrealname8168]

They succeeded.

[@mountainserenity9347]

And nato still underpays their fair share

[@Perseus7567]

Not all. It's mostly the Eastern European nations with the weaker economies missing the target year-on-year. The original Western Allies tend to hit the target, some might miss one year but only as an anomaly for some other reason. Hey, if the Eastern European NATO members want to underpay, it's going to be them who pays the prices anyway, as they're first in line to face any Russian aggression. I personally think the base target should be based on how much risk the nation is at. For example, the UK is probably least at risk from any Russian aggression for European nations, whilst Bulgaria is at the highest risk (in NATO). It's a bit stupid then for the UK to have to pay the same amount of their GDP for NATO's target as Bulgaria, despite benefiting a lot less from the deal. Of course there's the argument "but if they get through XYZ, you'll be next", but I still think those most at risk should have to pay more.

[@anthonywilfredwong4545]

Donald Trump should bloody watch this show.

[@BigD32477]

WTF are you talking about? Do you realize that this documentary was broadcast almost 40 years ago when the Soviet Union was still the enemy and obviously a totally different world so what does Trump have to do with what was happening in 88 and he doesn’t a problem with NATO he has a problem with the US flipping the bulk of the bill

[@matthewjones39]

Shut up about Donald Trump.

[@Donaldperson7]

Now in 2024 we see how Russia fights a war! And now drones are king! Warfare has changed forever! Tanks almost look out of date and a wast of money now? But what do I know?

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Not really. Tanks have a long-range and with tracks especially give mobility in hard to reach areas. Russia is still using tanks.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@trffft2866 *artillery

[@matthewjones39]

Tanks are not obsolete, and you don’t know much.