FS7 E-mount to B4 2/3" ENG lens adaptor review - MTF Services

John Fry of www.fryfilm.com tests out the MTF Services 2/3" B4 to E-mount lens adaptor on his Sony PXW FS7.
Filmed on our Sony NEX FS700, which the ENG adaptor also works with. This is a full review with sample footage from the FS7 and a Canon HJ11 lens.
All kit available for hire here: www.sony4kcamer...
Presented and produced by John E Fry ©2015 FRYFILM Productions Ltd.

[@movingpicturesbruce]

I Use this set-up on my FS700. It works beautifully. People can talk specs and gossip all they want but the reality is that it turns a great cinema camera into a run and gun camera as well. Two cameras in one. I purchased from a supplier on eBay the same cable that MTF supplies with the adapter BUT this one had the LANC cable incorporated into it as well. The true miracle here was being able to trigger the camera from the lens motor's start/button. That cable made a huge difference in "on the shoulder" shooting.

[@fryfilm2000]

+bruce maniscalco Awesome! Can you identify the cable with power & lanc for us please?

[@movingpicturesbruce]

This NOT the cable I bought but this is the seller I bought it from. Ask him. He's a great guy and I'm sure will make you one like mine that will work with the Sony FS700 or FS7 for that matter. www.ebay.com/itm/Servo-zoom-power-control-cable-2-3in-B4-Panasonic-GH2-3-Hirose-6pin-12v-Fujinon-/221969283315?hash=item33ae6678f3:g:F~4AAOxylpNTVY3t

[@andrewjones-productions]

Excellent! Exactly what I wanted to see.

[@alanmichael1234]

Hi John just watched your excellent video. Just wanted to point out that when you engage the doubler on the ENG lens you automatically lose 2 stops of light and with the MTF adapter with 1.3 teleconverter another 0.6 stops of light. The widest aperture on the lens will now be 2.6 x f1.8 = f4.68. The end result is loss of light on the fs7 sensor and for any equivalent focal length and f stop, exactly the same depth of field as if used on a 2/3inch camera.

[@fryfilm2000]

+Alan Dickinson Yes that sounds about right. Thanks for working that out!

[@markurban9113]

Also another issue is often with cheaper lenses (not the one presented) that doublers are soft near the edges (because they are out of sensor on regular 2/3" camera) here on a big chip we see these edges so quality might suffer a bit.

[@patriotcarepackage]

Thanks for doing the math.... I was curious about those exact issues. I knew about the light lose by engaging the double... didn't understand why he skipped over it or just didn't know. Not possible. Interesting though, when you see the camera view and he goes from normal to 2x extender the exposure doesn't change? So either the deviece is doing something we are not aware of (he didn't explain) or they made and edit to cover up the exposure change... That would be criminally misleading if John and his crew did that... I hope he will clear that up?

[@roodick85]

I passed on these lenses so much now I'm on the hunt!

[@Lisa-and-CameraCom]

Thank you so very much. Nice of you to share this.

[@rudolfabelin383]

Thanks! My GH5 will never look the same!

[@messiahs84]

incredibly helpful John, bless you!

[@raffouillel]

Hi John, Thank you for these explanations! just one doubt, this adaptor will take the image circule that comes out of the lens to cover the super 35 sensor or the super16 sensor using center scan mode? can I record 4K videos with this solution? if the answer is super 35, then can I use an adaptor without the lens conversion using the center scan mode? many thanks Rafael

[@fryfilm2000]

As it clearly says in the video, the adaptor expands the image circle to cover the whole S35 FS7 sensor, WITH the lens doubler engaged, so you CAN record 4K. You can use it without the doubler and use the 2x centre crop in the camera, but I have found the image quality to be worse doing this because the adaptor is designed to be used with the doubler on.

[@TomSykesMedia]

Hi John, What's the total spend on lens, adapter and Vlock adapter please? Interested in buying this exact set up.

[@fryfilm2000]

+Tom Sykes Hi Tom, The adaptor is about £1200, Canon to D-tap power cable about £30, Canon lens £1800, Vocas baseplate £600.

[@nigellewis8086]

great stuff john

[@paulanderegg5536]

Would it be possible to use a cheapo B4 to E mount adapter with Sony's SEL14TC 1.4x E mount teleconverter, to try and do this on a budget?

[@fryfilm2000]

Possibly, although none of the optical element distances through the adaptors will be accounted for. Give it a try and let us know!

[@NebulousFilms]

Did it work?

[@nobodycannacrossit9046]

Can the lens be controlled via the camera body or via a Rcp like a Rm1500?

[@riko8924]

Hi guys, thanks for the comments. Super keen on this set but wanted to know if depth of field stay the same than with lets say a 24-105 EF. Really would like to have this setup but wonder how much depth i can keep. Thanks a lot

[@fryfilm2000]

No its not a full frame lens, so you won't get full frame depth of field.

[@dinosvenningsen9098]

the problem with filling out the chip, is not there with the Panasonic GH4 or 5 (on Micro four third) you still need an extender on the lens (x2), but no need to spend more than the cheap ones on ebay.. besides on all cameras, you still need to adjust the backfocus, to make the parafocal precise.. beside that most of these ENG lenses has the sharpest focus on f:5,6 and above.

[@fryfilm2000]

It doesn't sound like you've actually watched the video...

[@ВладимирФедорчук-з2ж]

Great tut! Many thanks to you, pal!

[@henryssurfshowcase]

Will this work with Canon 70d to 2/3 inch fujinon 14x2 lens?

[@postprod09]

Hi there, at around 3:18, is the back focus a bit off? I know I have tried using the cheaper model that you've shown and can't really get a great wide tack focus shot. Any thoughts? thanks

[@fryfilm2000]

It probably was. I'd swapped the lens off & on the camera a few times by then so could easily have knocked the back focus off.

[@fassnacht]

When you used these adapters, did you set the BACK FOCUS on the lens? Isn't that important? It might help the performance of the cheaper adapter.

[@fryfilm2000]

If the image is sharp in the viewfinder and stays sharp while zooming in and out, then the back focus is set correctly. There is no glass in the cheaper adaptor, so it itself is having no influence at all on the performance of the lens, it's purely pushing the 2/3" light through with no correction for a super35 chip. The MTF Adaptor has got glass in to magnify and enhance the image from the B4 lens.

[@barondryford]

One thing that wasn't covered was if centre crop mode was on or off on the FS7. Could you use a B4 lens without the need of the 2x extender if centre crop mode is on?

[@fryfilm2000]

Center crop mode was OFF - in fact it wasn't even available when this video was shot. I have another video which shows the crop mode alternative, but *spoiler* it's not as good.

[@praveenkanaparthi9005]

excellent ,thank you so much sir very useful

[@frankallard1470]

HiYa!! Im using a Sony FS100 and was wondering if the fujinon lenses, with the use of an adapter, would work? Especially the zoom control. That rocker is where its at as you can zoom with one hand and focus with the other. The way it should be.

[@fryfilm2000]

Depends which lenses and adaptor you use. You also need to power the lens.

[@mosestes1]

that is fantastic but where kan i bay the zoom control i have the same lens thanks if you have link

[@fryfilm2000]

There's lots of different ones. The one I use in the video is a Varizoom. Mr Google will surely help.

[@jamesbridges1107]

Thanks for posting, I want to understand, you are using a SD lens (about 625 lines of resolution)...how can you resolve 4K with a lens that resolves SD? Thanks.

[@fryfilm2000]

+James Bridges Good question! All I care about, though, is that is works, looks great, gives me the functionality that I need and the pictures have so far been good enough for many corporate clients plus Sky and the BBC. Most have taken HD but have done some 4K too, and no one has complained, quite the opposite in fact. The glass is not itself divided into lines after all...

[@gusfiguerola3587]

I believe it’s a $20,000 broadcast HD lens. Not an SD lens. Those HD lenses resolve more than HD resolution.

[@andrewlewiscameras]

Does opening the aperture to 1.8 on an 2/3 inch lens using this adapter have the same shallow depth of field look as a Canon 1.8 Full Frame (35ml) lens at say 50mm ?

[@fryfilm2000]

Andrew Lewis The adaptor loses a stop of light so it's more like f2.8, and I would say no, there's more in focus on a 2/3" lens - which if you want to use ENG lenses on these cameras is probably what you want anyway.

[@morsmediatv-undfilmprodukt3958]

I tested this for the German market - magnifying the optical circle takes roughly one to two stops light plus the small aperture hole. In fact a T2.8 Cine or Foto Lens will be roughly 3 stops (2 for magn. , 1 for aperture size) brighter.

[@Johow]

Wait a minute... the lens does not show the same wide angle image, as if it was mounted it an XDCam for example. The image would be much wider with the 4.5mm on a 2/3` chip.

[@fryfilm2000]

Which shot are you referring to? It's almost the exact same field of view wide and close.

[@anthonypeirce5875]

wow what a set up you have very nice i would invest and have this set any day to film aircraft at airshows i have the fixed lens camcorder at the mo panasonic HCX1 which is not for this kind of filming i want to invest something much better than this the good thing i have is the sachtler FSB 8 head and flowteck 75 tripod

[@lairtongomes1849]

amazing!

[@nickthedane1]

Would you not get some support for the Lens Mount Also ? I now the E-Mount is not under stress, But what about the Lens Mount it stil hangs free

[@fryfilm2000]

+Leather All B4 cameras support their lenses through the mount only, so as long as the MTF is properly set up on the rails the lens will be fine.

[@nickthedane1]

Okay, thank you man :)

[@dutchgroundmedia]

Thanks for sharing !! Do you think it will work with a cheaper adapter while using clear image zoom ? (Don't know if the FS7 has this, but the A7s has it)

[@fryfilm2000]

No, because the cheaper adaptors do not magnify the image. As you can see in the video, the cheaper adaptor even with the doubler in does not fill the frame because it does not have the additional magnification that the MTF does.

[@dutchgroundmedia]

FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production thanks for the reply! I think i'll go for the Sony 28-135 G lens for broadcast work on my A7s

[@fryfilm2000]

Sorry? Broadcast work on your mirrorless stills camera?!

[@dutchgroundmedia]

Yes ;) ... Most of my "broadcast" clients ask for more "documentary" style. And even basic traditional broadcast programs can be filmed with camera's like the A7s, FS5 and FS7. I worked on several programs last year, and for this year i'm practically booked till the end of the year :D

[@paulanderegg5536]

I'v shot broadcast ENG footage with my A7sII 28-135 combo...it's frustratingly difficult to keep up with action and moving scenes, and the 5x maximum zoom range doesn't help either. The fact that the camera is loose a d rotates slightly on the back of the lens makes tripod movement and tilting a horrible and ugly experience.

[@ChrisShootingPD]

Hello. Great review thank you. Well explained. I hope you don't mind me enquiring as it's a little off piste with your review, but I don't really know a lot about B4 lenses. I've read about them, but there seem quite a few about. I've either been the usual Canon L-series user or hire in high end glass for certain shoots. I'm looking for a B4 lens that I could own that gets me out of my stills zooms. Are there any really good B4 lenses that you'd recommend me keep an eye out for please? Are lenses like Canon J16a any good? Thanks in advance :-)

[@fryfilm2000]

As with any lens choice, it entirely depends on what you'll be using it for. One of the best ever wide zooms is the Canon HJ11, and long zooms HJ21 or 22. A good TV cameraman would have both, and never ever need any other lens.

[@ChrisShootingPD]

Heya. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me. Much appreciated. Thanks for your thoughts :)

[@pilotgirlproductions]

I have the Fujinon HA16x6.3 BERM Wide Angle HD ENG Lens that I used to mount on my Panasonic HDX900 camera. I've owned the Sony FS7 now for almost 2 years. The problem is.... I want to do what you've done but when I tried to do what you did I discovered that my Fuji bayonet (specifically the space width where the threads that lock into the adapter) proved to be too large. I used the B4 mount adapter from FotoDiox with no glass. I called and talked to a company representative who said that I need a "B2" adapter not a "B4" with my Fuji. But the problem there are no companies that make a so-called "B2 adapter" for my ENG Lens. Is this true or should I just keep trying a variety of more B4 mounts. My friend swears that the MTF Services Ltd B4 2/3" to Super16 E-Mount Lens Adaptor will work. Before I buy it, what are your thoughts?

[@fryfilm2000]

+pilotgirlproductions That lens should be 2/3" B4, so it is probably the cheapo adaptor you are using that is not machined precisely enough. It also doesn't add any magnification so even with the doubler engaged you will get unusable vignetting.

[@pilotgirlproductions]

+FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production I just talked to an Abel Cine Tech rep who, indeed, assured me that a B4 mount is what I need. As you said, the cheapo option I originally bought must have been machine-shopped imprecisely. Not sure why then FotodioX insisted that I needed a so-called "B2"? Weird. In any event, might you have any experience with using the HDx1.4 B4/PL Optical Adapter and how much better it might be than the MTF version?

[@BenHelweg]

I've seen some other videos where people had the same problem. One guy just sanded down the inside until it fit, otherwise you could speak to a machinist who may measure and shave it cheaply for you.

[@fryfilm2000]

Jesus.

[@whichlens435]

[Canon HJ] is for : High Definition Portable Lens 2/3. Would Canon J & Canon YJ be also 4K suitable ?

[@fryfilm2000]

No. They are Standard Definition lenses, so will be much softer than HD ones, especially when shooting in 4K.

[@whichlens435]

Thx, Canon's MFT curves also say there is a difference.

[@fryfilm2000]

Well, they want to sell you the HD one for more money, so they have a vested interest in exaggerating the difference.

[@reynoldsc]

If using a HJ22 would you still need the doubler?

[@fryfilm2000]

ChrisCameraFilm Yes.

[@VideoByPatrick]

ChrisCameraFilm I thought the MTF lens glass correction feature negates the demand for extender mode; while the cheaper non MTF ebay version adapter demands the extender mode but at full wide you get the tad bit of imposing corners.

[@fryfilm2000]

VideoByPatrick All that is covered specifically in the video. Have another look.

[@fryfilm2000]

+VideoByPatrick Have you actually watched the video?

[@24millimetervideo57]

hey there where did you get the leather thingy for the display loupe?

[@fryfilm2000]

Honestly can't remember. I just Goggled it.

[@grecosanchez7693]

Hi. This lens CANON YH19x6.7 IRS IX12.19x will work on a fs700? Which adapter do I need in case it can work? I have a MetaBones SpeedBooster from EF to E. Thanks!!1 Greetings from Chile!!

[@fryfilm2000]

Surprisingly, you need the adaptor featured in this video.

[@grecosanchez7693]

FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production Thanks!!!. But, this lens is B4 1/2", i need the same adapter?

[@fryfilm2000]

That Metabones is EF, not 1/2" so no use to you here. You can get 1/2" to 2/3" adaptors.

[@fokjohnpainkiller]

What I don't understand is what sets this lense apart from Cine lenses costing 100 times the price. I imagine because it's a broadcast lens the sharpness is much worse? Why isn't the zoom range measured in millimeters?

[@fryfilm2000]

It is. An HJ22 lens is properly HJ22ex7.6, which is 7.6mm at the wide end, with 22x zoom. What sets them apart from cine lenses, (which actually are comparable costs within the new range, eg. Arri Alura zooms are around £22,000 new, a Canon HJ18x28 is £26,000) is the ergonomic grip, servo iris, servo focus and super smooth variable & programmable servo zoom, which often have four or five times more zoom than an equivalent price lens made for larger chips.

[@VideoByPatrick]

Very informative review (THANKS). You gave me the info and confidence to marry my Canon HJ21 2/3 HD lens and the FS7 body. That MTF lens D-Tap voltage Anton Bauer Battery cable adapter that powers the lens zoom control rocker; can I still use the Canon pistol grip zoom control instead of the consumer grade VariZoom ? Or does plugging the MTF D-Tap adapter into the lens negate use of the Canon Pro Zoom Control ?

[@fryfilm2000]

VideoByPatrick Assuming you mean the clam handgrip on the actual lens, then no the power adaptor only powers the lens. It doesn't interfere with the zoom control either on the lens or via a zoom demand.

[@VideoByPatrick]

Ok, so the external zoom controller I use would go in it's same lens' connection and that power cable you talked about goes into a separate DC input on the lens, right ?

[@fryfilm2000]

VideoByPatrick The d-tap power cable connects to the lens' own power/control hirose cable, and the zoom demand plugs into the zoom demand socket.

[@VideoByPatrick]

Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

[@vivrelocean]

Hello where can i found this zoom remote for eng lens thanks

[@fryfilm2000]

Depends where you are and how much you want to spend. Ebay might be a good start.

[@leonardbendix4979]

what about the record button on the lens? does it work with the fs7?

[@fryfilm2000]

+Leonard Bendix No. There is no communication between the camera and the lens at all.

[@fryfilm2000]

+FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production Although there is a third party cable now that combines lens power and integrates a Lanc stop/start control to allow the record button on the lens to trigger the camera recording. May be worth a search on eBay

[@InFamousProductions]

Hey will it work on a FS700?

[@fryfilm2000]

Yes.

[@fannetomas]

Great ... thank you 😉

[@socaminister]

can that lens work on the GH$ camera, please advise

[@fryfilm2000]

+Clinton Providence Depends what adaptor you have and the chip size. Bit impractical on such a small camera though.

[@DanielDemoustier]

Good man! :-)

[@liqaatv6850]

I have a camera old model JVC GH- HD111E and I want to buy a new camera Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K Can I install the lens of the old camera FUJINON tv-zoom LENS th16x5.5brmu lens on the new camera Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K and can I install an electric charger SWIT S-8080s 14.4v 88Wh on Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K too

[@fryfilm2000]

You can of course try, but I wouldn't expect much from the results!

[@romulog7]

does it work with fs5?

[@fryfilm2000]

Yes, but you will need to sort alternative power for the lens to use the servo zoom.

[@basspig]

That magnification will reduce the light the opposite of a speedbooster. The factor in f stops is the question.

[@fryfilm2000]

Not if you light your scene properly. You should always aim to be filing within the optimal optical range of the lens, which is almost never wide open anyway.

[@basspig]

You will need more light to light the scene than with a native lens because this adapter works the opposite of a speedbooster. That's a simple optical physics matter and is not debatable.

[@byahenipedro7019]

Hi bro if it fits in fs7 it will also on an fx30 right?

[@fryfilm2000]

Yes it should do, interesting idea! Use the highest quality newest lens you can though.

[@aevoss]

How are you powering the zoom motor?

[@fryfilm2000]

Does anyone actually ever watch all the way through these videos before commenting on them?

[@aevoss]

+FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production some people may watch all the way through and some may not. It's all based on time and interruptions. Being that the situation isn't ideal every single time, it is helpful to get questions like these answered in the comments section. Thank you and I'm very sorry I wasn't able to finish the video.

[@fryfilm2000]

Surely it takes less time and effort just to watch the video than it does to comment & question?!

[@aevoss]

FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production thanks for the response. You all are vey graceful and helpful. Have a great day.

[@morsmediatv-undfilmprodukt3958]

Sorry... this is totally nonsens! You are talking of an HD Lens that in general needs the camera to modifiy chromatic aberrations electronically - its called ALAC (sony) or CAC (Panasonic). Without this processing the lens will show its drawbacks (CA) - have a try on every std. PDW700 - just take the cable out and watch CA appearing. It MAY be ok for HD productions with a good (very good) CA-less low-zoom lens. Its definitely NOT OK for 4k. You say it has no drawbacks - you probably didnt see the footage on a large 4K screen (nor on a decent HD Monitor). Another drawback is that F2.0 (the lens) will be a physical F4.0 (or so) given the sensorsize of the FS7. So no fast-lens no more, nor the DoF. Again. I like the adapter for what it is - but its NOT a 4K solution AT ALL.

[@fryfilm2000]

+Morsmedia TV- und Filmproduktion Ulrich Mors +Morsmedia TV- und Filmproduktion Ulrich Mors I guess you are right. But given that the vast majority of the general public and even people who work in the industry can't tell the difference between SD and HD on their TVs at home, and that all major broadcasters are still happy to use footage from DSLRs and XF301s for primetime programmes, I doubt anyone will notice a bit of CA. If the budget's there I use better lenses, but unfortunately most of my clients don't want to spend the extra & are happy to live with the compromise. All filmmaking is a compromise one way or another. If you invite me to shoot for you I'll hire a Cabrio & bill it on.

[@ulimors]

+FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production No - simply use a 2/3" lens on a 2/3" camera... thats what they are made for. If your customer cant see the difference between SD and HD you can simply buy a cheap digibeta (3000€ now) or XDCAM SD and use the lens with that. Its like adapting thunderbolt to USB2.0 and cry: "hooray, it works!!!" BUT : with the new HD Crop feature in V3.0 an adapter with LESS magnification will make a bit more sense ...

[@fryfilm2000]

+ulimors Rightio, I won't use the ENG lenses until the 2x crop v3 update. And we will also be sure to only use SLR lenses on stills cameras - and nothing but Angenieux or Arri Master Primes on our C300s & FS7s of course. Because the difference in quality for the vast majority of productions is well worth the 4 or 500% difference in price.

[@AmvC]

+FryFilm TV, Corporate & Ski Video Production right flexibility comes at a price - either in quality or in price. Trying to maximize both Q & P is part of the art and there should be - no - discussion about personal preferences and/or budget. A reply starting with "this is totally nonsens" identifies a troll trying to troll around that shouldn't be fed.

[@BenHelweg]

I still notice aberrations on 2/3" cameras like the PDW700 anyway. Maybe it's not showing it from the lenses but there's still a giant glass prism in the way of that image which is going to have an effect on things. In some cases/for some users I think having a single unmolested sensor with a high dynamic range, log capabilities, 4K and easy to use media can outweigh the simplicity of a 2/3" camera. I personally will not miss most 2/3" ENG cameras.

[@paulwaldstehnbaem5941]

Ich biete gerade auf ebay den mtf für fast die Hälfte des Neupreises an: (b4 auf ef; auf e mount fehlt nur noch ein canon ef auf e mount von z.b. Commlite für ca. 70 Euro) m.ebay.de/itm/252482290521?_mwBanner=1

[@paulwaldstehnbaem5941]

Ebay sale mtf b4 ef with e mount option: m.ebay.de/itm/252482290521?_mwBanner=1