What They Don't Tell You About Molag Bal - Elder Scrolls Lore

[@michaelritchie5829]

oh god please make this daedric lore a full series

[@FullOedipus]

Steel or iron, that's what you need. Leave that fancy stuff to the elves.

[@fabulouschild2005]

YES

[@apolloisnotashirt]

@@FullOedipus Orichalcum shows great strength, you milk drinker.

[@Methodius-and-Cyril]

I second of this🎉

[@MjollTheLioness-o4y]

"Vivec knows the boundaries that separate fact from fiction. He knows them so well that he's learned how to break them. He exists inside his verse but recognizes the lies. The contradictions. He both does and does not believe his own tales.... Vivec craves radical freedom - the death of all limits and restrictions. He wishes to be all things at all times. Every race, every gender, every hero, both divine and finite... but in the end, he can only be Vivec." -Sotha Sil

[@TheXell]

The undoing of one's limitations is also the undoing one's self. For what is the "self" but the definition of what one is and is not?

[@jamiemiller1885]

I love vivec I believe he's the only one that handled his godhood correctly. Sotha did good but I feel like all the experiments and homunculi cancels out all his good deeds.

[@alwayshere6956]

​@@TheXellI let the Tao dragons guide me friend, I hope you, homies, kin, and countrymen, meditate to do the same

[@Xbalanque84]

Bloody hipster.

[@xavierzabie8184]

"It is better to be feared, than loved. If you cannot be both." - Machiavelli I think this is Bal's mentality exactly.

[@iantheroman1016]

Machiavelli said that with the context of: If you want to be an effective ruler it is better to be feared than loved if you cannot be both

[@xavierzabie8184]

@@iantheroman1016 oh I'm sorry you're right with that context the title of Daedric PRINCE doesn't apply here, I guess. Especially since it was a quote from a book called "The Prince". Don't start something you can't finish.

[@greenflame070]

@@iantheroman1016 And Molag Bal is the Prince of? Domination. Hence, a tyrant. A ruler in the most total sense of the word. So if he can’t be loved in his tyranny he’ll be feared.

[@bobSeigar]

@@xavierzabie8184 That's gotta be the most reddit neckbeard "actshully" comment I've read recently. You missed the content of the quote, then emotionally react when someone completes it. High salience, low processing.

[@xavierzabie8184]

@@bobSeigar sounds like someone wants to start something they can't finish... Machiavelli was a staunch support of the Roman Republic, so a republican. Not in the modern sense. Despite having a glorified resume talking about the necessity of tyrants. So yes I know the context of the quote. But it is a quote for a reason. Context you're too "neckbeard reddit" or w/e for and how it relates to a Daedric PRINCE who is literally considered a tyrant. Sounds like someone is projecting. Sure you want to keep going down this road?

[@RecordedMercury]

Molag for me is the most depraved of the princes. His quests just leave you feeling like you've done something *really* fucked. Whether it be torturing an old man or bullying an old war hero into fighting you after he made a vow not to hurt anyone.

[@pancakes8670]

Molag Bal is truly the most pitiful and spiteful of the Daedric Princes. He's the only one that can leave you feeling like an actual evil person. Molag Bal isn't just about defeating his enemies, he wants to truly break them. Their bodies, their values, their promises. Nothing survives an encounter with Molag Bal.

[@suntiger745]

Going with the premise the narrator suggested in the video, Molag Bal's approach seems to be: "If I can't have love, then nobody else gets to have it either!" So he twists, breaks and dominates mortals and lesser daedra to do his bidding, or be destroyed. He probably thinks respect and fear is the same thing too.

[@rilfelursh2790]

Those two missions were light, he must be more fucked up and disgusting, something capable of doing the most twisted and depraved thing.

[@MelkorTolkien]

The old man was a daedric worshipper himself. However, he did get it worse cause he submitted his soul to molag bal, his suffering will be truly eternal.

[@GnosticAtheist]

Molag Bal is just principled and orderly. The weak must be crushed into perfection or dust. Think of him like God in the old testament, clearly evil and void of good, but still an architect of fantasy trying to make something perfect but without the ability to do so.

[@aceundead4750]

Molag just needs a golden retriever. They love everything, even people who dont like dogs.

[@hipsnowsis7374]

someone go get barbas

[@gwendolynsnyder463]

@@hipsnowsis7374 Aaaaaaaand then Clavicus Vile scams Molag Bal. Because that's Clavicus for ya.

[@Pandemia616]

There's probably a daedric retriever

[@macewindu5195]

@@hipsnowsis7374 I mean Barbara’s is clavicus and I don’t think clavicus would be very happy leading out his dog to molag

[@Manbarrican]

I see what you did there boi

[@BoneWalker]

I love bringing up the vivec/molag bal bit to eso players new to elder scrolls lore, the reactions are always worth it.

[@TylerHolt-hh5cf]

Molag Bal: "Fuck the Lord of Rape for esoteric knowledge?" Vivec: "You son of a bitch, I'm in."

[@cyber_crysis_]

No fr when I first learned it I was like “😶☕️🤏 damn”

[@TeslaRaijin]

I find it ironic how Molag Bal has always given this vibe of being the most hated and feared. Yet craves loves and affection. Definitely makes him a pitiful soul.

[@carpedagon5401]

I think it further adds to his satanic parallel Satan was a fallen angel who while being full of pride and being evil craved more than anything love and adoration.

[@kayboy6055]

@@carpedagon5401 who the fuck is leading yall to these projective conclusions?

[@sub-jec-tiv]

Garden variety narcissist. What an a-hole. 😂

[@mushroomsrcool1449]

Makes me wanna hug Molag despite the fact he'd probably tear my arms off and divide me into quarters and have me suffer that same pain for aslong as possible.

[@MorphineDoffein]

@@mushroomsrcool1449his a moxleszter a good for nothing Deadra he deserves to be replaced by the Blood emperor Naxerion a dragon born Vampire lord who achieves godly power

[@bacaestrife3615]

If you ever do a follow up on Molag Bal, I'd suggest getting the Vigilant mod, as you get a version of Coldharbour that's more accurate to the lore, a warped version of the Imperial City. The story of it also fits your interpretation of the prince.

[@IlMemetor72]

What a fucking mod, honestly one of the best things I've experienced

[@bacaestrife3615]

@@IlMemetor72 It's pretty good overall I agree, my only gripe is that the Coldhabour part is a little long for its own good, as it feels a bit draining by the end of it, but the overall experience is great.

[@herpesinflammation]

I’m flabbergasted that this mod has never been subject for analysis on this channel

[@Ata.TeaGargler]

Too long? My friend, I've replayed that mod twice already, total of three different playthroughs. Though I can see how the 2nd part of the mod can feel a bit exhausting.

[@zarenboug5410]

@@Ata.TeaGargler i’m going to play the vicn trilogy again sometime soon. Hands down the best and obscure mod for skyrim

[@SilkyJohnson625]

I like the idea of Azura's secret was love and instead of a shackle that was forced on him it was one he accepted.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

I know! It's honestly a really good theory, because both Azura and Molag Bal have different outward manifestations of malignant narcissism that would feed into each other in super toxic ways. Azura sees herself as uncompromisingly perfect, and snaps upon any who'd so much as suggest otherwise - displaying a shallow and frail sense of self worth and an illusion she must uphold at all costs. Yet, as long as you supplicate to her, she is magnanimous. Molag Bal does not delude himself on his imperfection, but rather focuses on exposing the weakness and awfulness of others. Molag Bal's cynicism is so deep and personal that he believes that all relationships and love are coerced - a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many of his antics serve not only to compensate for his inner pain, but also to "expose" (in many senses, creating) the awful reality of the world as he sees it. You might interpret Cold Harbor as how he interprets the world - an ugly, awful place full of awful people and mindless slaves. If you really wanna be spicy, it'd basically be the marriage between a Karen snowflake and the most Red-Pilled man in existence.

[@jenx5870]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 Technically, he would be black pilled. Red pilled people remain realistic, but optimistic about the world.

[@TheSpiritsLease]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 Red-pilled is independence and self-worth. Blackpill is hating everyone and not even trying, because you believe there's no point in anything else.

[@sugarcombfilms3467]

@@jenx5870 Molag Bal is basically the God of Being Blackpilled. He's so cynical that he wants to spread his cynicism to every other being in existence so they can know his pain and know his reality, and then put himself on top of them as the being who showed them the "truth".

[@badluck5647]

People often misunderstand Molag Bal as the embodiment of corruption and domination when Bal's motives are actually much more individualistic. For example, Bal wouldn't be a supporter of Dunmer slavery, because he isn't the top of the hierarchy. He doesn't support slavery for the sake of slavery. Bal wants to be the one that dominates, and the Dunmer and their slaves aren't taking orders from the Daedric Prince. Molog Bal doesn't have an impulsive need to corrupt. He chooses to corrupt things due to a jealousy of the creations of others.

[@Blessom]

👏🏿

[@BlueSpams]

He’s the embodiment of a power fantasy.

[@MoonlitMike]

He's nasty

[@viderevero1338]

He’s like the God of recently rejected Incels.

[@grilledleeks6514]

@@BlueSpams all you did there was admit your power fantasy involves violent rape, you psycho.

[@cwalser544]

He folded Vivec's feet behind his ears and planted himself deep in the loins of the warrior poet. Literally in the book.

[@TylerHolt-hh5cf]

This some Anne Frank shit

[@Nami8302_OwO]

It's kinda hot ngl And Vivec is a hermaphrodite so.. it's still not clear exactly where he planted himself lmao

[@inscription8099]

I could have lived without this information you know.

[@badluck5647]

As far as lovers go, Vivec could do better.

[@alemirdikson]

Vivec: Hmm I'm a god now... What's something only a god could do...? Rape the God of Rape? Yeah that'll do. Flex on the haters.

[@GusBDamme]

@@alemirdikson bold of you to assume Vivec isn't a bottom

[@gators2728]

He is lucky to have had the attention of the dominator. He is barely deserving of the attention of Peryite.

[@mostevilcoral6568]

@@GusBDamme vivec is absolutely a bottom. He's literally hermaphroditic

[@petitequinte]

"I can fix him"

[@jefthereaper]

I've never been good in psychology, so the idea of Molag Ball being actually very insecure and going full 200% in domination and destruction to serve as a deterrent is a very cool and unexpected angle.

[@etinarcadiaego7424]

He's a psychopath and malignant narcissist.

[@Arguments_only]

Sure he might feel insecure about not being lovable but what is insecurity? Insecurity is a feeling of unease you get when your interest(s) are threatened. You have no food, you fear starvation, so you steal. Insecurity. You feel insecure about jyggalags growing power so you imprison him. You think you are incapable of being loved so you try to take everything by force, which gives you pleasure... Insecurity is a crucial feeling for every human and since these gods are not egoless omnipotent beings it charactirizes all of them at least at one time....

[@JackSable]

It's an ancient and unoriginal take. That you didn't come to the same conclusion naturally means you either don't think much or have some sort of social disorder.

[@RaynmanPlays]

I wonder if Molag Bal was the previous Kalpa's version of Talos, a king that became a god. Only because the previous Kalpa was a pretty horrible place and Molag Bal was a pretty monstrous ruler, he became Daedra instead of Divine. This would be why he could reveal the secret of CHIM to Vivec: He achieved it in the previous Kalpa. And because he realized he lived in a dream and determined that nobody else really mattered.

[@vince7906]

Bro you are by far the best narrator on this channel. I love how your calm and relaxed while delivering your monologue. Not all up beat and fast and excited. Lore masters should not be hype men. Keep up the great work.

[@tyrekkbrooks4864]

Should definitely make this a series but not just Daedric Princes, maybe the Aedra and even some of other gods like Sithis, Satakal or Y’ffre

[@definitelynotsigjir]

Loving these daedric deep dives. It would be cool to see one on Namira, since she's turning out to be more than a nasty slug queen, plus the ESO spirit queen aspect of the reachmen. I also have a theory that the night mother could be an aspect of Namira.

[@FullOedipus]

No lollygaggin.

[@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger]

She's the mortal "wife" to Sithis - she holds a significant mortal place to something more significant than Daedric Princes.

[@definitelynotsigjir]

@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger see that's the interesting part because Sithis is the void and Namira is like the shepherd to the void.

[@alexbenavidez4500]

I know KZbin guidelines likely paid a part, but you didn't really tell the full story of the "marriage" between Vivec and Molag Bal. For starters, that part about Vivec letting him have his head was a bit more literal than a euphemism, and he literally gave him his severed head to...uh..."love" for like a month or something like that. This union created children between the couple. Many children in fact. They went at it for days on end supposedly. At the end of all this rough lovin', Vivec, presumably still as a severed head, then does one of the weirdest things in Elder scroll lore since the Orc God being literally Trinimac after he was shat out from another, and that was biting off the tip of Molags.....sword...to create a new weapon that becomes a daedric artifact I believe it became a "spear", but anyway Vivec is a fcking freak and the amount of times he has achieved immense power after meeting another key figure in the Elder Scrolls universe and immediately saying "Wanna smash?" Is now more than one.

[@TylerHolt-hh5cf]

Vivec is just a big ol "love" god. Isn't he

[@MarkusManon]

Thank you for the all expenses paid round trip this comment just took me on, woh

[@rvawildcardwolf2843]

The Mod author for these statues deserves all the credit possible for adding grandeur to the Deadric shrines.

[@hollyhartwick3832]

I find it fascinating how the Elder Scrolls series takes things from the real world and integrate them so well they just feel like they belong. Two good examples are the word and concept of Kalpa, taken directly from Hinduism, and Mundus, a Latin word for "world".

[@hollyhartwick3832]

@@silentservant_ - Or at least inspired by RL mythology, though those aren't from Hebrew mythology (though they are mentioned in the Bible.) Ba'al was a Canaanite/Phoenician deity, and Dagon was Sumerian. They're mentioned in the Old Testament as rival gods of neighbouring nations.

[@jeffreylebowski4556]

I miss Drew. Edit: Yes I know he has his own channel. I should have been more specific in that I miss the days when Michael, Scott and Drew were all on the screen together.

[@highlordnox1838]

@@Considirk pulled an arinel and tried to recreate the dwemer experiment, currently in another plane of oblivion

[@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis]

Just visit his channel then^^

[@badluck5647]

Drew's channel: kzbin.info

[@jeffreylebowski4556]

@@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis that's not what I meant.

[@brenorios4810]

Everytime I see something about Vivec he's doing some wild shit

[@badluck5647]

I prefer his name from the last Kalpa: Ligma Bals

[@YagrumBagarn69]

Before that he was titled Sugma Bals!

[@Flesh_Wizard]

Lyg'ma Bals

[@quintinjansevanvuuren9638]

Molag Ballin' also has some sick bars with an unassailable flow.

[@ryueldragonborn4145]

These guys are great you have clearly mastered the sense of lore tes has to offer and this is especially beautiful for how difficult and unclear the lore can be at times making sense with its self

[@20starcombomaker]

With Daedric princes having dual natures, one they proclaim and one that is a more subtle and underlying trait. After some thought, I think Vaermina's goal is to circumvent to process of life and death. Whereas Molag Bal is doing it in spite of Arkay, Vaermina does it in envy. •Vaermina's followers use the miasma which has the effect to slow aging • If all you do is sleep, you are less likely to engage in activities that might kill you (as anything could kill you) • Thinking of what fear is, it is a primal response avoid danger. You are afraid of things that would ultimately kill you. She wants to scare you OF death • She works in the dream realm similar to the concept of and in envy of the dreamsleeve If she can keep you alive and incapacitated, she circumvents both life and death, providing her own supplement for reality sacrificed for her having ultimate control. She is greed, she wants everything to herself, but she is willing to give the benefits of her realm to persuade those to leave behind what they had. The only time she can't have you is when you die, it takes someone alive to sleep. She is like Hermeous Mora, she doesn't explicitly care to rule, just hoarding everything to herself. She is greed. Greedy people lie, cheat, and steal. She lies about reality, she cheats the process of life and death, and she steals memories and dreams. If you don't worship, her she scares you about things you don't want to happen to you in the real world. If you do worship her, you live as a God, she becomes the God head and you control the dream.

[@SebasTian58323]

If the secret she shackled him with was her love, that could explain why they're allies in the faction data you were talking about, so it makes sense to me

[@hipsnowsis7374]

Having watched y'all's videos for some time now, I love the way that your videos have been changing and improving a lot recently. It feels like after years and years of "here's everything about [blank]" videos (which, to be clear, weren't bad in any way, and are much of the reason I know as much as I do about these games) your videos are trending more towards "here's an idea I want to share about [blank]" - rather than just informing, it feels like the videos now, more than ever, offer with that information a degree of interpretation, with lots more context, and perhaps an opinion on how to view it all, always well explained and clearly laid out. You might say that they have a clear and nuanced thesis now, more than they did before. Perhaps it's just that, by now, a lot of us here know all the basics about who the princes are and what the pantheons are like etc etc, so we are more likely to readily understand the context, and thus the content is naturally shifting, but whatever it is, I really like it. I think this new Daedric Princes series offers a perfect point of comparison with the older videos, and I'm really enjoying the way this is going so far - I think there is a lot of value to making new videos on things that you have already covered. The next game may be years away, but this channel is doing just fine from where I'm standing. (P.S. I don't think it's anything to do with Drew leaving because A: he's doing the same thing in his videos IMO and B: there wasn't a huge noticeable shift when he left or anything) (P.P.S I'm not trying to tell you how to write your videos or anything I'm just noting a pattern of things that I'm enjoying)

[@PaladinNathan]

I've seen a few people talk about it and I'd like to add, the mod Vigilant created by Vicn does a really good job at showcasing Molag Bal and what he does. Such a good mod, highly recommend anyone to pick it up and try it.

[@AlexMourning5635]

I never got the chance to play Elder Scrolls growing up, so I've only just begun earlier this year. I'm impressed with the worldbuilding and depth that's been added and have started listening to this series in the background. Kinda loving this!

[@the36lessons11]

I don't think the minds of the gods and divines are so easily explained in human or mortal terms and motivations. Molag is the coagulation and embodiment of his sphere. There may be no reason or motive, just a nature that mortals can't truly comprehend. He is a force in the Mundus and Nirn that happens to be self-aware.

[@Ollybollyk]

It's more complicated than that. Deadric princes are spirits the same way a mortal is a spirit, the difference is that daedric princes are many times more powerful and wrenched into reality. It is as if the sun would somehow gain sentience, but under the laws of the tes universe. The reason why daedric princes are so different though is because they were spirits that were born in oblivion (and aedra as well, btw) when it was first formed, whereas most mortals are born from fragments of the aedra that gave up most of their power to create mundus and nirn by extension. If a mortal being were to establish their grip on reality in the same way daedric princes do by obtaining a comparable amount of power, they'd be just as incomprehensible, as can be seen in Talos. It's just the nature of the TES universe.

[@anodyne4670]

I find it interesting how we are obsessive about assigning motives and reasons to evil. It makes the horror less terrifying when you think you know the reason behind it. The thought of understanding something, whether it is true or not, gives us some peace of mind. The idea of something simply being capable of evils terrifies us; understandably so. Believing that we understand it really gives us a sense of control. We don't want to believe that we're dealing with an evil force that threaten us. We prefer that the opposition is just some sad little kid from around the corner that we can laugh at.

[@etinarcadiaego7424]

Real evil isn't some mystical cosmic force. People who are truly "evil" are that way because their brain doesn't function properly. I'm not using that as an excuse or justification. It just is.

[@Elyseon]

Evil doesn't need a reason, though it may try to find a pretext.

[@CatvsShark]

Can you do Periyite next? He's the one I have the hardest time learning about but I'm fairly interested, especially because I'd like to incorporate him in my D&D campaign somewhat if possible!

[@pancakes8670]

Peryite is very underrated. Very underestimated as well, as he could destroy all of Nirn by simply playing a game of Plague Inc. Peryite takes a lot of forms. In Skyrim he appears as a Spectral Rat, but his most common depiction is that of a Little Green Dragon.

[@LordMortanius]

God of Darwinism is basically Peryite in a nutshell. He's basically Oblivion's tech support outside that.

[@paradox2222]

Thanks!

[@FudgeMuppet]

Thank YOU! Seriously we appreciate it!

[@pythonhighadder7982]

~@21:00 This trio trying to break the barrier reminds me of another trio. Namely: Vivec, Sotha-Sil and Almalexia who also attempted a breach.

[@StarrTheWitch]

So, dual wielding Dawnbreaker and The Mace of Molag Bal using Azura’s Star to recharge them, good idea, bad idea XD

[@Realkiroker]

After playing the Vigilant mod, Molag Bal is by far one of my favorite Daedric princes. He’s clearly jealous of the innocents and purity of mortals, and how truly ugly he himself is, and he tries his absolute best to compensate for it. He’s just a sad, ugly, lonely, and hated demonic god. I don’t care how unlore friendly vigilant made him, that Molag Bal will be the true Molag Bal in my heart.

[@etherraichu]

Daedra princes don't really have emotions. They arent people and trying to apply human traits to them will always result in failure.

[@talatq719]

My favourite part of Vigilant was Jyggalag of all princes being the one to invade Coldharbour. The way his artificial light lit up coldharbour felt like a form of blasphemy in a sense. Like the Prince of Order is just mocking Molag Bal the whole time. It's too bad Jyggy's lore independant of Sheo hasn't been expanded on yet.

[@Unapologeticweeb]

Wierd how modders have a better grasp of the lore then Bethesda themselves

[@TheRealMycanthrope]

*Envious Envy is wanting what another has Jealousy is the fear that someone will take what you perceive to be yours

[@ivory867]

I don’t think he’d be envious of mortals purity molag is a true evil being I think he sees himself as pure if anything mortals and anything not similar to him would probably disturb him

[@bus6292]

So the endless horror and torment the Nedic people endured under the rule of the Ayleids could have been avoided if someone just thought to give Molag a puppy. Imagine the strange path he'd have taken as a god if he had a Barnabas who genuinely loved him.

[@justme0910]

I'd like to point out that while the interpretation of Molag Bal's character as someone who is deeply insecure, stuck in the cycle of abuse, and yearning to be loved is valid in-universe, this is NOT how abusers typically function in real life. Oh, they often claim that they do what they do because they have been hurt, but most of them either haven't actually experienced any significant trauma, or their trauma is incidental to their abusive behavior. The only reason many people who were abused as children go on to abuse others is not because they wish to pass on their own pain onto others, but because they absorbed the attitudes and beliefs of their abusers that make abuse acceptable. This is because despite common misconceptions, abuse is mainly the result of values, not emotions. Abusers are defined by their inflated egos, entitlement, and lack of empathy. They do not "lose control" or "lash out" out of anger - in fact, their actions are highly calculated. Abusers feel entitled to controlling and dominating their partners, children, employees, friends, or anyone else they are targeting. They consider their cruelty entirely justified and give themselves permission to be abusive. So following real life human psychology, Molag Bal as the Lord of Domination would instead have an overblown sense of self-worth and importance, and demand submission because he feels superior to everyone else, prioritizing his pleasure over the rights and needs of others. If he is easily manipulated by the promise of affection, it is because he believes that OF COURSE others would - and should - adore him, and this adoration pleases his ego.

[@flammenwaffenfries3039]

Sounds like something a feminist would say. I would sacrifice you to Molag Bal

[@suntiger745]

A very good counterpoint. :)

[@ElSombraRegio7]

As someone who works in case-mamagent and directlt with survivors of domestic violence and other abuse. This is spot on. That analysis of abusers who were abused don't afflict horrors due to emotion but because they believe they are moraly enabled to is bone-chilling because its true.

[@dannymac939]

Yeah, Molag Bal is a rapist and supports the crushing and corruption of everything around him and whoever carries out his will. I think calling the Daedra evil is a simplification, but Molag Bal is undoubtedly an evil entity and completely malevolent

[@lord_kinbote3920]

Narcissism and/or psychopathy.

[@CoffeeNutGaming]

Lots of great 80s death metal band titles in the script for this one - very Molag Bal of you

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Holy crap, this has languished for FAR too long on my "Watch Later" list, but thank you so much for publishing my theories! I'm really proud that you thought they had enough validity to spread on a larger platform! Cheers, FudgeMuppet!

[@cdogthehedgehog6923]

Literally 5 fucking days ya doof. I have some vids in my watch later that have been there for _years._ 5 days lmfao

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@cdogthehedgehog6923 I guess I just assume they only look at their comment section on the first day or two after a vid comes out, if at all! I was hoping to thank them for putting my theory up. I tried, anyway, lol.

[@WhoAmI-qd9ej]

Molag Bal unironically my favorite daedra, he's just so fascinating

[@viderevero1338]

Fair enough honestly. He’s definitely the most “Evil” one, and that makes him stand out against a lot more “Gray” daedric princes.

[@Megan_Unknown]

Bound by love … oof. Giving big narcissistic energy. Not that all with narcissistic traits are evil and I find it interesting looking more into ES lore to see the care taken for these villain character’s backstories.

[@etinarcadiaego7424]

I personally have many narcissistic traits and I literally won't kill a fly.

[@feihceht656]

​@@etinarcadiaego7424do you emotionally abuse others though?

[@sugarcombfilms3467]

@@feihceht656 I'm not the guy you replied to but I also have narcissistic traits and I don't think I've ever intentionally manipulated someone's emotions. To be honest that just sounds hard. I'm way more likely to simply neglect someone's emotions out of ignorance or lack of care

[@fr0stw0lf97]

Interesting how Arkay can't cure vampirism but Falion can

[@Nami8302_OwO]

Because Falion literally eats kids, so he's got superpowers just like in real life you didn't know that?

[@Ollybollyk]

Falion doesn't cure vampirism, he just transfers your vampirism to the soul you captured in the black soul gem he asks for. That's like eliminating your debt by transferring it to someone else. The debt isn't gone, it's just that someone else is carrying it now.

[@nurrakugy5126]

Arkay is a village idiot lmao

[@feihceht656]

Misinformation is across the world before the truth can get it's shoes on. Arkay could maybe empower people to cure willing vampires but the games show it's not pleasant, but vampirism spreads unwilling from the bites, scratches, and curses

[@Sahil-qp9hf]

Arkay probably will not be willing to transact a soul for a soul with molag bal. Falion gives a black soul in exchange of getting life into the dead body of the dragonborn.

[@mylesjohnson7351]

Bal reminds me of Sauron especially how they are obsessed with domination Sauron is trying to bring order to middle earth by being the soul ruler of it Sauron also was a servant of the dark valar Morgoth he was always scared of losing his power which led him to create the one ring a way to bind his soul and keep it out of the halls of mandos similarly Bal is afraid of the more powerful Deadrea like Dagon which is why he uses deception to achieve many of his goals also Dagon twisted mortals into vampires just as Sauron twists men and combines them with orcs to create half orcs and uruk-hai they both seem like they have never experienced any love in their lives which is why they are such horrible beings

[@LandStrider23]

It was Molag Bal who created vampires, but I see what you mean. Appreciate your take on the comparison. I'd go as far as to compare Molag Bal to Morgoth himself though. And Mannimarco is more like Sauron

[@EkaridonGaming]

.,:?"! Here's some punctuation bro, please use it

[@RecordedMercury]

I feel like Mehrunes is more like sauron

[@Unapologeticweeb]

Well molag does all forms of domination.....including sexual non consensual kind(see the origin of the daughters of cold harbor) Sauron doesn't

[@RecordedMercury]

@@Unapologeticweeb unless its dominating the races of man. Other than that there's no real correlation

[@riflescientist1744]

Molag is my favorite prince aesthetically the blue fire and corruption of the other princes creations are always cool to see

[@cb-9938]

The mace of Molag bal was my first daedra artifact and I was immediately in love with its look

[@DrayLoco]

This is a great video! I love your channel and the lore* behind the Elder Scrolls universe is so interesting

[@m16dude967]

One of the best traits of Molag Bal is that he is such a good sport. You kick his ass and he shakes your hand, looks at the Aedra, and says "promote this man/woman"

[@RainaRahl]

I always viewed molag bal as the embodiment of evil for evils sake. maybe that's how they meant us to see it, at surface level. it's interesting to consider that there may be layers under him. however, I liked viewing him as having no weakness related to "humanity" so it feels like a let down to think that love and jealousy, very human traits, could be reasons for his savagery.

[@chesterstevens8870]

Attempt #4 of asking for an "Is it Worth it?" Video on Hermaeous Mora cultism.

[@spookieloop]

I’ve always wondered-is the Molag Bal in ESO the same as Molag Bal from the other games? When The Hero of Kvatch bested Sheo/Jygallag they mantled and became him-could the Vestige be becoming the new Molag Bal by virtue of their victory? Additionally, with the Vestige having the opportunity to free Mannimarco, the working relationship between Mannimarco and Molag Bal in chronologically later installments is amusing-not between former allies/master/servant(also worth noting, Mannimarco ALSO fully intended to betray Bal)-but between former enemies who have ended up in similar spheres(Mannimarco having been split into two forms after Daggerfall, one of which being The Necromancer’s Moon). -the Mannimarco but is less important to the discussion, but it amuses me nonetheless, considering IF The Vestige frees him, he promises to become a problem, yet in Oblivion the version of Mannimarco who did NOT ascend to Godhood is once again in service to Molag Bal(Potentially The Vestige)

[@teyanuputorti7927]

he became one of my favorite Daedric princes when I got his mace. It seems to me that he could be the way he is because of the other princes views of him.

[@dicynodon1018]

looove this video, but real love I ain’t deceiveing you beloved muppets, best channel in youtube ❤

[@nid2160]

I, so look forward to a Hircine video. Thank you for this amazing series so far

[@WordOfYah]

I really hope the next elder scrolls expands on Bretons. I also am really intrigued by Jyggalag so to see him come back full force, perhaps gaining the worship and devotion of the Bretons, would be really cool to see. Bretons don’t really have a distinct deity and Jyggalag would fit quite nicely.

[@the_corvid97]

I'm curious to know why you think Jyggalag is a good fit for the Bretons? Bretons are prone to being divided into factions with High Rock technically not being a single kingdom. Then again, if someone were to unify High Rock with Jyggalag's help that could be interesting.

[@WordOfYah]

@@the_corvid97 well I’d think Jyggalag would find balance or order in the Bretons being half man and half mer. It would just be really cool with their knightly orders, or perhaps a small extremist cult. I just want something that sets apart the Bretons, they really intrigue me and Jyggalag is similar in that both are lesser known, kinda like the underdogs. So far the Breton lore doesn’t go too deep and they feel quite generic but for some reason they still are my favorite race.

[@WordOfYah]

@@the_corvid97 oops I forgot their not half man/mer, their technically/mostly human and partly elven. 😂

[@the_corvid97]

@@WordOfYah That's totally fair, I've just never seen someone with that idea so I decided to ask.

[@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger]

@@the_corvid97 Honestly if I saw anyone getting Jyggy with it, it would probably be a high elven cult. Absolute law and order tends to be their thing and if a group felt their hold on a territory was faltering, I could see some worshipping him in the hopes of regaining it. (I feel like any order gained through Jyggalag would be inherently hollow though. Like cultists turned into Priests of Order and their hearts replaced with Hearts of Order in return for exactly what they asked - only under Jyggalag, not under High Elves).

[@DavidWBIII]

I TRULY LOVE THIS TYPE OF COMMENTARY AND VIEW OF SKYRIM. THANK YOU CAMELWROKS AND PLEASE KEEP IT GOING, THERE IS SO MUCH TO DISCUSS IN THIS WONDERFUL GAME, SKYRIM. PEACE, LOVE, HARMONY TO ALL.

[@SeamusOCleirigh2002]

I have to say of all the Daedric Princes Molag Bal gives me the most ick (aside from Namira), i only ever do his quests when it fits the character I'm role playing, it is interesting to see his origins and motivations flushed out, great video! Big slayy

[@infernaldaedra]

1:13 The TAINT of Molag Balls! 😂🤣

[@HerrLindstrom]

I really do love and appreciate these kinds of analysis videos. You guys sound like your having fun just delving face first into all the lore and quite passionate about it. I enjoyed listening to this as I'm doing a playthrough in skyrim. I'm omw to Markarth so I can initiate the quest for Molag Bal 🖤

[@octavianpopescu4776]

I'm playing as a vampire right now, as I was listening how my character is an abomination. She's nice... ish... 😀

[@HerrLindstrom]

@@octavianpopescu4776 lol myself I'm currently working on a power mongering mage (major sauron vibes) still unsure about becoming a vampire but my character does not shy away from necromancy and seeks to know all the secrets of the Aedra and Daedra 😈

[@LandStrider23]

@@HerrLindstrom Sauron could take the form of a horrific vampire & werewolf before the fall of Numenor

[@basiliimakedonas1109]

6:05 but how was Molag bal born in Vvanderfel for the island was made during the dawn era by the red mountain where Lorkhan's heart was thrown by Akatosh. Molag bal existed before that being the ruler of the dreughs. He could perhaps have been a daedra but mortal, dying and being reborn

[@brucehamm2072]

Fudgemuppet and theepicnate are the two best sources of elder scrolls lore on KZbin.

[@kingclouddz7999]

Your videos have always been great love the channel and content! This though has to be one your best videos well done boys 🎉!!!

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

Maybe it's just me projecting an imaginary "higher purpose" on to my favorite Daedric Prince, but it seems to me like Molag Bal is happiest when someone overcomes him. I don't think he wants mortals to be his slaves at all. I think Molag Bal really wants to make mortals strong, and does that by being a villain for them to oppose.

[@issh1n]

that’s completely incorrect and the exact opposite of what he wants

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

@@issh1n But is it really? Looking at canon interactions with Molag Bal, he seems smug when getting people to submit, but gleeful and almost magnanimous when he is overcome.

[@mantis8326]

He is the Daedric prince of domination. Ofc he would sometimes enjoy being submissive. Molag Baal you kinky prince you

[@cutepaws1233]

Uhhhh that's the exact opposite I mean he's literally nicknamed the God of rape

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

@@cutepaws1233 True, he is the god of rape, but if you look at how Molag Bal acts, he's at his most pleased and almost magnanimous when a mortal has overcome him and not submitted.

[@672Kevin]

Great video. For my part, that the secret Azura bound Molag Bal with was love is not far-fetched, it's undoubtely correct. Interpreting Molag Bal as the embodiment of toxic masculinity at first struck me as a reduction but the more I think of it, the shoe fits perfectly. And it lifts Elder Scrolls lore into the realm of literature. I'm sold. And sorry for calling it "toxic masculinity" but it provides a good shorthand for the essential concept.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Toxic masculinity is definitely one of the forms of Molag Bal's sphere of cyclical abuse, albeit it's not the only form. This is part of why I actually think Molag Bal is more equivalent to DnD's Lolth than Mephala is. Molag Bal's form of abusive behavior is kind of informed by real life patriarchy which seems to be replicated to a lesser extent in the Elder Scrolls series (women in ES have a greater similarity to IRL modern culture than IRL medieval culture, with some specific microaggressions still present but overall much greater autonomy), and since rape is one of the most evocative and horrific actions of abuse and cruel power dynamics, it makes a little more sense that Molag Bal's favored form would be male and his toxic behavior would trend towards the masculine. So I do typically like to shorthand Molag Bal's sphere as "abuse" or "cyclical abuse", and we can let folks group toxic masculinity into that themselves.

[@brandondavis7777]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 Yeah, except there's no such thing as "Toxic masculinity". Just because you dislike it, doesn't make it toxic, you don't get to define masculinity for others. Something all those stupid misandrists need to learn.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@brandondavis7777 Uh, yes I do get to call it that. If you can insist it doesn't exist (because you *do like it* ), I can. Except unlike you, there's a lot of academically acclaimed work defining it, and society is largely moving to agree with me. Not that it would help, but you are also really confused about the subject. Not all masculinity is toxic, but parts of it absolutely are. There are wonderful examples of masculinity without toxicity out there, but you're the one trying to claim that masculinity is a unified, immutable, and infallible concept. Not a good position to have.

[@rogersowden2369]

Love the return to lore videos! I love your interpretations and speculations, keep it up guys!!

[@gabr.7878]

You are actually extremely smart, your interpretation of Bal is so crazy that's it's actually smart

[@jstar3382]

the king of domination getting used constantly is so good

[@temporalCaster]

Dying at the idea of Molag Bal threatening you with the most grousome torture imaginable only to be thwarted by a heartfelt hug

[@nighttime3673]

Damn, this explanation aged like fine wine now that I'm playing through Vigilant again.

[@Dottor_J]

Masterpiece of a mod

[@gtaipan7422]

I have been wondering if Molag Bal is something more than just a devil capable for torment and chaos. He looked so awesome and may have some interesting history of his own true origin and what became such a devastating god. Thanks for the explaining about him, FudgeMuppet. I love to learn lessons about character's own history, philosophy and art.

[@jackomecamorfo6060]

if molag bal wants love,why won't he become molag ballin

[@stasonfrost]

I think it's more along the lines of "if I am unlovable, ill make a mockery of love itself"

[@SandGentleman]

I just love that the background music for a video about the Lord of Domination and King of R*pe is this soft and peaceful lmao

[@greasyweeb]

"love, that is, love from Azura" "I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you. Aye, love. Love! Even as man, great Talos cherished us. "

[@boreanknight]

They tell me enough to know to stay away from him.

[@danesorensen1775]

The daedric prince Fire Stone, eternally opposed by his mortal enemy Good Year.

[@headshot531]

i actually didnt know sotha sil was that powerful god damn. able to go toe to toe like that and actually threatening them with it working lol

[@jamalisujang2712]

This must be what it feels like to hear a lecture about the olympian gods and their demigods in when you lived in ancient greece.

[@Batonaleash]

Every time i think about what Molag Bal did to Lamae i really get sick in the stomach. Its such dark, painful lore. Although im quite the edgelord and i love vampires, it just hurts to know they're the offspring of forced intercourse. Lamae must've lived in extreme pain until she passed due to her wounds. I dont even want to imagine. *shudder*

[@raphaelphenix9809]

That he had a smooth voice and a funny personality.

[@andrewhunter4248]

Could it be that the reason Meridia despises all things to do with Molag Bal is that he was the one to cause her to fall from the Magna gi? They were the ones who made him, and Meridia was cast down due to consorting with darker beings. Would make sense that anything that is associated with Molag Bal is an affront to Meridia as they are reminders of her own transgression and reason for her own "punishment".

[@Seifiros]

Still no sign of Vigilant playthrough? You are tearing me apart FudgeMuppet!

[@hzmicide1738]

Molag uses everyone as pawns. Don’t ever think you have a “deal” with him…well unless you’re the Dragonborn.

[@ConfuseDirt]

If your a female dragon born...well. That deal might come with an extra price to it

[@kyrasoze516]

Next time I'm in the Imperial City Sewers, I'll try hugging his simulacrum.

[@apolloisnotashirt]

I did not expect such a savage, malevolent, violent, cruel, gruesome Daedra. I thought that would go to Boethiah but godamn I can see why they are rivals.

[@Witchking2024]

I feel sorry for Meridia truthfully, my interpretation of her is her desire to preserve order and balance. And while I haven't really played all the elder scrolls games. A line in her skyrim dialog always shows me that while she has compassion it's a conditional sort.

[@mostevilcoral6568]

ESO goes into great detail about Meridia. She is kind of like an unemotional mother. She loves you, but she wont save you from death. She cares for mortals, but only so long as they stay within their role. She favors her followers, but does not mind using them until they die

[@tubbywubby360]

Meridia is the embodiment of "the road to hell is paved with good intention" she loves, cares, and even knows what's best for her kin but with severe repercussions. Her intentions are good at the cost of millions. The reason why she's not "wholly evil" by moral standards because there are several daedra who are even worse than her. If you were force to choose which daedra master you would serve, youll choose meridia simply because shes the lesser evil.

[@PandoraWolveCrow]

@@tubbywubby360 Meridia Reminds me of Dutch from Red dead rédemption 2 but in RDR 1 he was an asshole

[@LordMortanius]

@@mostevilcoral6568 She also HATES free will and was among the patrons of the worst of the Ayleids. As per ESO, she's despised in Cyrodiil, and even in High Rock she's called the Glister Witch and the Lady of Greed.

[@mostevilcoral6568]

@@LordMortanius she doesnt hate free will, it just doesn't fall into her domain at all. She us closer to an aedra than the rest of the daedra though remember, and they're all about order and stasis. They want everything to be the way they think it should be. They dimply don't understand free will among mortals, for they themselves are incapable of doing anything but enforcing the laws of their domain.

[@ImperatorCaesar1]

Molag Bal is the greatest of the Daedric Princes.

[@IaeyanElyuex]

TIL Sload Soap is ever nastier than I thought. And I'd already guessed it was nasty.

[@ryanscottmccormick191]

Wow, this is one of the best videos I’ve seen of yours so far!!! These comments are intended to be complementary; The piece got ‘real-world’ and practical seemingly apropos of nothing, while landing some intuitive, timely, cultural psychoanalysis. Thanks for all your years of commentary and entertainment. 😊

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

It's honestly one of the cool things about this topic, especially. Most people don't understand how someone goes from normal to evil, and yet it happens all the time in large part because people don't understand what the transformation looks like.

[@OuterRimPride]

There’s a Skyrim mod called Vigilant that makes up a really fantastic story for Bal and Coldharbour. I can’t recommend it enough.

[@regs137]

He raped Lamae so badly that she died. That is not Bully behavior. That is evil.

[@brothers_of_nod]

Now this is the lore I hunger for.

[@nataliehughes4258]

Oddly enough, I do relate to Molag Bal. Great video!

[@hugoboncar]

Since I read how the first vampire came to be, I can't look at this Daedra anymore

[@ashtonbergseth9712]

Awesome keep em coming man bravo!

[@Linkinpurk]

Milage bal really remembers me of Morgoth with all this corruption going on

[@bobsmith6715]

I don't think that fear and insecurity are the core of his being but rather simply his weakness, part of him born from the nature of who he was a king, not a god complete in his will but having 'human-like' mind prone to imperfection, set in his way towards his ideals but not without emotion. It is because of his domineering strength wowen into his being that although he may wish for love he is only willing to or capable of attaining it through domination. He suffered defeats bringing him shame upon his absolute rule as a tyrant king so he probably feels it necesarry to gratuitously posture his power.

[@SCSAsJorts]

I honestly wouldn’t mind if ES6 (I know we are like decades away from that game) went back to its ES4 premise with a daedric prince being the evil that is attempting to run the land (technically Molag has been touched on in EOS but before the time of Skyrim) and I think Bol should be the main bad or at least have a more focal focus outside of a side quest or hear-say during the dawnguard DLC

[@ZacksPLs]

Okay hear me out, after listening to this I wish I could just give molacbaal a hug, man just needs a freind, I mean he's still evil and unjustified but he also keeps getting toyed with