Fujibayashi's New Zelda Formula

In my previous video, I explored Hidemaro Fujibayashi's history with the Zelda franchise. Now I want to look at Tears of the Kingdom and get to grips with what could change but - more importantly - what his approach of looking for "multiplicative gameplay" opportunities will lead to in the next Zelda title...
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[@lemoncakeslemonade5430]

Rewatching this after echoes of wisdom, and while that game is not yet out as of the time of writing this comment, I still think that you can see direct parallels of the four core elements and the abilities that we’ve seen as of yet in echoes of wisdom. The context is very different, and they’ve made the two abilities we’ve seen fulfill multiple roles, but you can still see them falling in line with what you’ve laid out. For environmental manipulation, that’s very clearly bind. That is just very directly being able to move objects. Although the game isn’t out, I still predict that it’s going to be more limited in its use case than ultra hand- but we’ll see. Time manipulation…. slots less neatly in. But I think that you can see some comparisons between reverse bind and rewind, where it is manipulating the movement of moving objects. I personally think that they might have used the system used to track and record objects moving paths for rewind and then used parts of that in EOW for reverse bind. Traversal is arguably both of them. I think that it slots much more neatly into the echo summoning ability- we’ve seen them get echoes that are primarily for transport, such as the horses and horse summoning system or some of the other summoned things we’ve seen Zelda travel around with. Much like ultra hand, it’s less one specific way of travel, and moreso a system that enables different forms of travel. There also is just using the echoes as a way of summoning things that aren’t directly used to move you, but make accessing more of the environment possible, like cryonis. Of course there is also travel ability with bind, but that overlaps with its time manipulation abilities. Combat is again, arguably both of them. Combat in this game looks VERY different than combat in other games, in that it is less direct. But it does clearly go more to the echo summoning system, as it is clearly more designed to do that more than bind and it is more versatile in many contexts. This is especially clear when you consider that you can summon enemies to do fighting for you. I’d like to argue that you can even see evidence of some of the verticality you mentioned, albeit in a very different way- in other top down Zelda’s, the borders of the world were often made up of trees and walls. But in EOW, already we’ve seen those as things that you can vertically travel to. Obviously VERY different from the verticality in TOTK, but still a way of changing how we travel and interact with the map. Anyways. Again, the game is not out yet. If I remember, I’d love to revisit this video and then see how it maps onto EOW after it comes out and I’ve played through it. It’s very possible that there are more abilities that they haven’t unveiled yet- specifically, we might see something that falls into the time manipulation ability. But even with just the two (arguably three if you see reverse bind and bind as different), you still can sort them into the different categories that you laid out, which I think is SO interesting.

[@nintendoforecast]

Absolutely superb post with some really great insights. As you say, there may be more revealed. I may revisit this once I've had a chance to get into the game. I've pinned your comment too!

[@zapzapfishes5878]

Slight correction, the paraglider was more or less introduced already in Wind Waker with the deku leaf gliding mechanic. It also introduced islands of small challenges to travel between, although they were of course normal islands rather than floating ones. Also interestingly, I think A Link Between Worlds introduced the predessor to shrines with its small challenge rooms. Great video.

[@nintendoforecast]

Good point - thank you. Desperately need that WW Switch ports so I can replay. And thank you!

[@zapzapfishes5878]

​@@nintendoforecast Yeah, it feels kind of crazy that WW hd is only available on the Wii U. I've only played the original gamecube game. It was the first Zelda I ever played, so the memories of its beautiful little archipelago world and mechanics are very strong. Thank you too.

[@takemetoyonk]

And then even that was an evolution of the Deku Flower from Majora's Mask, down to sharing the same lore origin. God I love Zelda iteration

[@zapzapfishes5878]

@@takemetoyonkOh I missed that. That's a fantastic connection

[@Cam-yu6zi]

Good god I hope they don’t give us 4 abilities at the beginning and that’s it again. Really want item progression back in the next Zelda game

[@krzysztofb9279]

and some linear sections as well... if they continue using the botw system the next zelda will flop... it sacrificed story, lore, and player expectations.

[@toast7969]

@@krzysztofb9279 i agree. they sacrificed it all. Even atmosphere. Going into towns, dungeons was magical in all zelda games. Deku palace, stone tower, lost woods they all feel different because of the music and it conveys certain emotions. The lack of music really ruins part of the experience.

[@toast7969]

Thats a huge issue for me. More abilities could be used as a reward for exploration....korok seeds didn't work 2nd time....a 3rd time will be unbearable.

[@GameTimeNLL]

The champions in totk were pretty much item progression. True item progression is entirely anti true open world.

[@toast7969]

@@GameTimeNLL The champions were horrible. I had to disable it, pretty much unplayable for me. The abilities in botw were done so much better. item progression is NOT entirely anti "true" open world. Give me an ocarina to play music. A hookshot. More sword moves...i could list a thousand more abilities as reward for exploration that wouldn't impact the "Go anywhere obsession nintendo has". Took me less than 30 seconds to come up with it.

[@RamChop451]

I hope the next Zelda is completely different. Totk did what it did incredibly. We really don't need a third time around unless it gives us fully in depth underwater exploration and open ocean sailing and islands. That's the next Axis If they are making a third wild game

[@nintendoforecast]

I agree - I don't expect a third Wild game exactly but I do think that you can see echoes in the structure of OoT as late as Skyward Sword and I think these deep structure elements are likely to recur even if they look and feel very different with a new world, aesthetic etc.

[@TarsonTalon]

I'm thinking the third game's gimmick will be transformation. Purah and Zelda worked together to research both the secret stones and the Bubbul Gems, and find out exactly what causes people to turn into other creatures, from which they learned 'Form Exchange' technology. Unlike consuming either secret stones or Bubbul gems, one should be able to retain one's mind...but things like dragons, Blupees, and even Satoris are off limits because they are too dangerous to try, and the required exchange of resources is too immense. As for the overarching plot, a remaining fragment of Ganondorf's spirit resides in the Twilight realm, from which he invades Hyrule. Portals open across the land, through which pour Ganon's forces, which include Shadow Beasts this time around. They sack Purah's lab and steal the technology while Purah, Zelda, and Link were testing 'Form Exchange', which was on a separate testing pad. Because Link was transformed into a creature at the time, they were immune to the Twilight freezing everyone else. Zelda and the other Sages only had partial immunity due to their secret stones, but are transformed against their will. Purah however is frozen in spirit form on the spot. The first challenge is to eliminate the nearby portal through which Twilight pours. However, it is discovered doing so comes at a cost: It drains his power little by little, every time he shuts one. In order to get it back, Link has to overcome the fortresses that lay beyond the portals. As for the stolen technology, apparently it had been given to the Yiga Clan to research. Now Link must close the portals to the Twilight, reclaim the stolen Sheikah and Zonai technology to overcome the fortress within them, and possibly find new unlikely allies and forms with the help of Kilton. At least, that's what I'd do if I were directing the next game. :3

[@e-mananimates2274]

@@TarsonTalon You might be onto something... Sadly, we will not see this version of Hyrule nor any of the characters in an official mainline game any time soon.

[@19TheFallen]

I think they said that _Tears of the Kingdom_ was the Wild era's last "hurrah".......

[@hihowareyou232]

​@@TarsonTalonThis just seems like an odd fanfic TBH

[@dereksnider7148]

I'm not really a fan of how shrines require so much loading/waiting time. I'd prefer some ability for the puzzles to be part of the main continuous world, and not have you waiting around for 20 seconds for a shrine to load in. With a new console on the horizon, I really expect that we can get away from these sorts of limitations (having the player wait while loading/unloading large portions of the game), and have more of the puzzles be part of the main game world, rather than taking you into a separate "shrine" world. We already experienced much of this with the sky islands -- outdoor game world puzzles involving launchers, Zonai devices, platforms, fans, moving objects around, etc. I think the grandest example of this was the entirety of the Spirit Temple, starting from The Secret of the Ring Ruins. I believe that this sort of thing will be the true direction of future Zelda games, where everything is seamless, and you don't have to wait 10-20 seconds to suddenly be somewhere different (unless fast-traveling is still present). As far as powers and abilities, I sort of hope that the next Zelda title has less in the way of overt modern/futuristic technology, and goes back to at least the illusion that these technologies are based in "magic". I was quite happy that TotK used bomb-flowers rather than having endless technological "bombs", but the Zonai devices felt out of place to me. I would not be sad to see them go. I only use Zonai devices when absolutely necessary. They sort of feel like cheating. The ability to fuse items to arrows, however, is really cool, and I hope they keep that in some shape or form. I wouldn't mind, and would actually prefer the ability to craft arrow combinations in advance, similar to cooking food, but requiring access to a crafting table, and along with this, the ability to repair and craft weapons. So let's replace fuse with craft, and require recipes and crafting tables. As for ascend, maybe they will finally make a hookshot work with the open world. I would also like the ability to swim underwater -- and this would add a whole new part of the map previously unavailable to us. As for the time traveling aspect, I think it would be cool if there were a way for Link to travel across time. This could add another way of reusing the map (think A Link Between Worlds, or A Link to the Past), where the map is the same, but different, because it's a different era. The geography could be the same, but the living things would be from a different era, and what was ruins in one era could be a full, living, thriving village in another era. I wouldn't expect that this would be something that could be done frequently, or anywhere, but would be connected to an appropriate game mechanic.

[@nintendoforecast]

Excellent thoughts. I do suspect integrated shrines might have been an aspiration and I like the idea of the hookshot returning (it was in the early BotW plans as I recall). I definitely agree about time travel - a lot of potential here.

[@ArtemisWasHere]

When I first saw the entrance to the shrines in totk, I immediately thought of ratchet and clank rift apart, where a big part if the marketing was on how the new SSD tech allowed for these seemless portals between locations. My hunch is that will be integrated into the next version of shrines as soon as the zelda team has access to such technology

[@XwoooahX]

This. The loading screens to get in and out of Shrines really degrades the whole experience, especially since there are so many of them. If the loading screens were removed or they were just a part of the main world, that would be much better. Another thing: What if they could remove the loading screens in fast travel....? What if Link was shown to turn into particles and the game shows him fly through the world to the new location at super sonic speed and phase through anything blocking him to that path? That would be so much more exciting! Maybe the game could deload some assets at the start of the travel and reload them near the end of travel in that local area to be able to accomplish this, but the player would not see that ...it would seamlessly happen as they watch Link travel across the world.

[@reynoldskynaston9529]

I like your commentary but it’s a bad idea to splash a lot of text on screen while you’re talking in the video. It’s impossible to read and listen at the same time when the text doesn’t match what you’re saying.

[@nintendoforecast]

Yes, great feedback. It was a bit of an experiment in making the videos 'denser' (theory being that people can pause if they want more info) but I don't think I'd do it this way again. Thanks for watching!

[@Indubb]

I played for over 100 hours without the glider just because I couldn't find it. I think its actually a lot of the reason why I liked the game. Try flying a hot air balloon when you realize that you have to land it too. The stakes are a lot higher.

[@nintendoforecast]

Wow, that's amazing. Now I want to try a playthrough like this!

[@zemocon2868]

The skills from TotK will not return in the next Zelda. That would be derivative. They will improve the physics engine and create a whole new open world with new game mechanics. I hope the next Zelda is more grounded like BotW. Games are supposed to have some limitations. Otherwise you could just walk through walls or turn invincible. TotK almost went too far with the freedom and customization. The worst thing is Link often looks like mess. A bomb fused to a shield is useful, but looks like crap. BotW is a lot more pleasing aesthetically.

[@eyeball226]

I'd say BotW went too far with the freedom. I prefer not to be able to get literally anywhere at any time. I miss the feeling of coming across obstacles that I don't yet have the tools to deal with.

[@santiagopomares6287]

I guess those are good arguments for why Totk had to be a direct sequel, you don't need to imagine how the weapons would look like if they were more "clean", you have Botw for that, and the somewhat overpowered yet fun traversal options perhaps could ruin a new world, but because you're not likely to want explore every bit of the revisited one this isn't a huge problem

[@rellmonshade3241]

Yea. Even base weapons lose their sheathes when fused(except master sword)

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

​@@eyeball226 BotW didn’t go too far. You may dislike the freedom the game gave you, but it was functional. You have stamina limiting your climbing and swimming distances, parts of the game have specific conditions like the rain in Zora's Domain. That works better than invisible walls usually do. I'm not saying that not being able to climb a steep wall like spiderman is a bad choice, but it makes more sense to turn mechanics into obstacles instead of just saying were you can or cannot go. Items could work in a similar way.

[@eyeball226]

@@aaaaaaaaaa190 Saying "you may dislike that amount of freedom" is equivalent to saying "BotW's level of freedom went too far for you". You basically just paraphrased what I said. p.s. I wasn't calling for invisible walls, but rather ability gating. When I say obstacles I mean mechanical ones, not story ones. As in "I can't blow up this rock because I don't have bombs yet", not "I can't go here because the narrative doesn't want me to".

[@r.g.8339]

Lets go back to Ocarina Of Time roots and built from there. We have to put identity in Zelda games again. They could combine the exploration of TOTK, but without the repetitiveness. Make it a mix of Ocarina, Majora and exploration. It can be a new map it doesnt need to be hyrule again.

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

I would use TP as a blueprint for how to evolve and refine OoT's core ideas. Linear story, at least 10 full length dungeons, Metroidvania-style item-based progression, and a darker tone. Take what OoT and TP did well, maybe add in some elements of BotW/TotK, like upgradeable armor sets and the stamina wheel, and give us a modern take on the classic LOZ formula.

[@Pratendo]

I can smell the nostalgia out of your ideas haha No, I am sure they won’t go back, they even said that the formula, they came up with Botw is the direction they are heading in future (even after Totk). The sales numbers of Botw/Totk just confirmed that for them.

[@chooongusbug724]

​@@Pratendothe old good, new bad vocal minority is very obnoxious and runs on nostalgia sadly. They can't look at what makes BotW/TotK so good because they've only played the 3d games and don't realize what actually makes Zelda, Zelda. It's wild

[@tloz171nfs]

​​@@chooongusbug724most Zelda games follow the mostly linear structure with a Backbone of dungeon/items and a strong narrative. The original on NES, BOTW and TOTK are indeed the outliers. Idk why you dismiss it as "nostalgia" but also claim its not "what makes Zelda, Zelda" when it most certainly is. Some people prefer to follow a more structured narrative and get stronger through items that allow for more complex puzzles rather than having all your tools from the start. Also the music in BOTW/TOTK don't hold a candle to OoT, WW, TP or even SS. And the weapon durability is controversial at best, and infuriating at worst; the other 3D Zeldas thankfully don't have a system like that.

[@chooongusbug724]

@@tloz171nfs you like having your handheld lol

[@nintendoforecast]

Thanks for everyone who came back after the long gap. I'm still hoping to keep making videos but my pace won't be quite what it was last year due to other commitments. Hope you enjoy and please subscribe if you're interested in more!

[@n1nj4l1nk]

Aside from all the copy pasting of content the biggest flaws in the Wild era games is getting all the tools in the opening hours. They're the longest games in the series by far and did away with gameplay evolving over the course of the game. That coupled with all the copy paste content really reduces the impact of exploration. Imagine if you found an overworld puzzle and instead of knowing from afar that it's yet another Korok puzzle that is going to give you poop it rewarded you with a riddle that mentioned a boss. Instead of knowing it's gonna be a Hinox, Stalnox, Gleeok, Talus, Flux Constructs, Frox, or Molduga, it could be one of those or one of fourteen other types of owb or one of the nine unique owb. When you track it down your exploration has led to something that surprised you then you're rewarded with a hookshot. The hookshot is entirely optional to complete the game but it evolves how you play, you can now use it in combat to pull you or enemies closer, grab weapons from afar, steal armour or horns from enemies, can be attached to ultrahand builds to anchor them out of the way of enemies or used to set traps, it could be used with other none essential tools like iron/hover boots to further evolve the gameplay. Evolving gameplay over the course of the game and there being surprises keeps the game interesting. They really need to learn that for the next game. Also, it really bugs me that you're given ultrahand as if it's some unique power that noone else has but by the time you got the surface everyone has it. As for cryonis, any ice item can create ice platforms by throwing them into water or fusing them to a weapon and hitting the water.

[@n1nj4l1nk]

@@xzanderain TLoZ, AoL and ALttP aren't linear though. TLoZ especially was pretty much as open as BotW/TotK so the openness isn't what makes them less like Zelda games. What makes the Wild games different is them not having uniquely themed dungeons where you get an item that evolves the gameplay. That and the Wild games taking everything cool they have, randomly copy pasting it all over the map in the laziest way possible: "Ooo a giant cyclops overworld boss, that's cool. Lets put another 60 of them all over the map and 20 skeletal ones too. That won't get boring at all" "You had an idea for a small puzzle box micro dungeon that could be used to fill the map with content? That's a great idea, be sure to make it look exactly the same as the other 150 of them, having 15 each of these basic themes: forest, marsh, water, cave, fire, air, electric, ancient tech, ice, and shadow is totally too much work." "Whats that? All the overworld puzzles are gonna be of 4 types and all attached to annoying characters with terrible rewards and all rewards in the game are going to be acquire in the same way as the rest of their reward type? You've really mastered this taking ideas that could be great and packaging them in the most bland way possible to slightly reduce workload. Well done, we all know less work = less magic but more profit." It's The Legend of $ellda.

[@santiagopomares6287]

@@n1nj4l1nk I used to explore in the other 3d Zeldas, but after wind waker I stopped until having beaten most of the dungeons, getting items throughout the game makes sense at first but it comes with one of two drawbacks, they either aren't useful at all outside their dungeons or they are, in which case they punish early exploration, it wasn't very nice to explore early because you would normally only see something you can't get and will have to come back for later. You either do that or give all the items at first like Botw, there is no such thing as the perfect solution, they wanted the player to be able to explore anything at any point, so they let you have it all at first. Although, I have to ask if you even played Totk or just watched someone else, the gameplay does evolve throughout the game, Autobuild and the Yiga power are not given from the start, and the Zonai parts are teached and given throughout, which expand your arsenal, of course if you spoil yourself with youtube then that doesn't happen but what's the fun with that?

[@anthonyrivas5321]

I honestly don't care about what they do in new zelda game but I really really hope they don't get rid of purah because I love her so much and I would hate if they don't put her in the new zelda game.

[@JesseGast]

I was not happy with all the grinding for food and recipes or breakable weapons. I liked the upgrade ability of items like in Skyward sword. I prefer needing specific items or weapons to get to the next area / dungeon like all the Zelda’s before. Well done in ocarina.

[@ninshu9073]

i don’t think there should always be a form of building things in every zelda game xd

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

Agreed, LOZ is not a sandbox franchise

[@Drew_2152]

I love open worlds and I am a recent Zelda fan by several years but I didn’t become a Zelda fan for sandbox gameplay. I’m not even a puzzle fan I just really like Zelda for its medieval world, characters, themes, and the idea of a forever reincarnating evil.

[@jjopification]

@@Drew_2152 Yeah, this is a thing I'm missing. The whole medieval atmosphere / magic suffers heavily from building vehicles and having some kind of technology in the game.

[@alexdelatorreyestrada7748]

to your point, cryonis is still in TOTK to some degree. If you use ice weapons on water or even the ice fruits

[@-Titania]

Skyward sword walked so that botw could run so totk could soar so that in the next game link can go to space

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

*...so TotK could do some cool stuff but largely stumble and trip down the stairs.

[@-Titania]

@@Multipurpose_Bagel what game are you playing? Totk is such an obvious upgrade to botw that it's not even close. seriously homie what meth did you decide to smoke today

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

Simmer there, bud lol As much as I liked TotK, it doesn't improve everything from BotW. The differences between TotK and BotW were much smaller than the differences between SS and BotW. So, we are left to think it's a sequel then. But as a sequel with a 6 year wait, it's just a shame how much of it felt selectively thrown out or recycled. It felt more like a remix or an expansion to me. And guess what? I'm allowed to think those things lol

[@-Titania]

@@Multipurpose_Bagel the way you came in here starting shit then are like 'yo chill' when I call out your goofy ahh opinions is the obvious mark of a troll. Totk literally improved upon every aspect of botw. Name 1 thing botw does better than totk. Did botw have zonai tech? Did it have nearly as many items as totk? Did it tell nearly as compelling of a story? Was it's music in any way better? It's dungeons? It's bosses? In EVERY way tears is the upgrade.

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

I'm not "starting anything" lol. And no, I'm not a troll. You seem to be getting unreasonably upset. I'm not trying to change your mind. But since you can't even accept that other people might think differently, maybe take a look in the mirror. I liked Totk, but I liked BotW, as a whole, on delivery, more. That's all. There are individual things when compared side-by-side that I liked better in this or that game. I liked the fragmented storytelling in BotW, whereas TotK would have benefitted from some more structure. I agree that BotW had a much simpler story, but that allowed for more finesse in the freedom theme, whereas you get a much longer runaround in TotK. I didn't like that some characters remember you from BotW and others don't. The dungeons ARE better, but not by much, and not equally. Your final line sums it up, actually. TotK feels like an "upgrade". An upgrade, not a "sequel". But here's the great thing: not every game has to be made to cater to everyone, and, they shouldn't be made that way. Hopefully, I'll like the next one better. You'd be kind and correct to say "I hope you enjoy the next game more as well".

[@mtbgeologist]

While the open world and sandbox-style seems to be the direction Nintendo wants to take Legend of Zelda, it is also alienating a lot of players who preferred the linearity and natural progression of past titles. I hope Nintendo does a balance going forward of TotK-style 3D Zelda games and a more traditional 2D Zelda akin to A Link Between Worlds and Link's Awakening.

[@robinita46853]

I’d be happy to lose climbing, memories that tell a disjointed nonlinear story, koroks, and a lot more. Totk bored a lot of people for being too similar to botw. Giant open worlds have had their moment, but scaling down games is the new direction.

[@c.nk.01]

i really think climbing has changed the series for the better and I would be sad to see it leave, but the others i definitely agree with. my issue with climbing (specifically in tears) is how it lets you completely cheese the dungeons, which i guess is the point (though that's another problem in and of itself). what's the point of making more "traditional" feeling dungeons again if you give them that freedom to completely bs it like you could with the divine beasts? honestly even the divine beasts felt at least somewhat more restrictive bc you couldn't climb them. that's the main thing i'd like to see them do with climbing, just make it a bit more restrictive in dungeon environments, which they've done before (shrines and divine beasts).

[@CodeRed0]

@@c.nk.01 I think a limited climbing, and/or a climbing item that lets you scale a certain kind of surface could be cool. Kinda like in portal where you can only portal the white surfaces, and that limitation opens up the game to so many puzzle ideas, versus being able to use it anywhere which would ruin every puzzle. To be fair, there are already places you can't climb in BotW/TotK, but maybe going a step further would improve climbing.

[@crumble2000]

@@CodeRed0 exactly! Climbing could be restricted to trees and vines so that reaching the top of a mountain would feel so much more fulfilling.

[@chuckliquor3663]

I would like them to keep the non-linear approach but return to the smaller world map and dungeon format.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

What a smaller world map would do better than a big one? I genuinely would want to know. Zelda maps have been progresively bigger throught the years, I believe the next step isn't to go back to smaller ones. On the other hand I think a linear game would benefit from a smaller, more restrictive map and would.

[@nintendoforecast]

Although I'm personally in favour of the massive maps, I can see the argument that smaller maps offer a denser experience. Koholint Island is tiny and yet every inch of that island is pure magic. If anything, I expect them to keep to roughly the same size since they used Kyoto as a mental model which seems to have been helpful to them.

[@chuckliquor3663]

@@aaaaaaaaaa190 The bigger the map, the more content is necessary to make it feel full. One of the pitfalls of TOTK and BOTW is that the gameplay began to feel modular, you find the same kind of puzzles all over the world. I would rather the regions be smaller and more unique and atmospheric.

[@ProfessorBinks]

@@aaaaaaaaaa190 smaller maps allow for better overall graphic quality, more full worlds and event, and cohesion. all things the new duology notably lack

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

@@ProfessorBinks I don't see a direct proportion between content density and game quality. Bad games are full of bad content. But I do believe smaller worlds could help focusing on deeper sidequests. Majora's Mask is an example. As for cohesion, what kind relation are you refering to? Cohesion is not very specific.

[@ScarletEternity-m2r]

Vr breath of the wild/tears of the kingdom would be a dream come true

[@Jormunguandr]

I would love something new and exotic. But having some sort of music element is always welcome. Verticality is nice. No need for ganondorf all the time add some ancient curse and some disaster looming over the location. Under water exploration should get some love like in oracle of ages but more.

[@nintendoforecast]

I agree that it would be nice to have a completely different main villain.

[@Trazynn]

BotW and TotK are already quite vertical. What's missing is density. It's a post-apocalyptic barren wasteland whereas a next gen console should be able to handle a more vibrant ecosystem and society.

[@javiervasquez625]

We should get a new "Majora's Mask" type game where the objective isn't to defeat a megalomaniacal Demon King trying to "rule the world" but a more ambiguous antagonist with deeper motivations which affect the gameworld in different ways (like Majora's Mask) forcing the player to explore the gameworld in order to learn more about this mysterious threat kickstarting the quest. As long as the stakes aren't simply to "stop the badguy" Nintendo could write an engaging narrative which challenges the basic formula of the series by bringing new ideas on how to expand the Lore beyond Ganondorf showing up over and over and over again.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

​@@Trazynn While Breath of the Wild fits this, I don't think Tears of the Kingdom suffers as much from lack of density. Of course, the game doesn't have lots of NPCs outside from their villages and settlements, but having people in the world doesn't mean having content. Some ges have a lot of self contained societies but they don't have any meaning to the game and you can't have different interactions.

[@coyy9106]

I think that the duality of the audience cultivated for the Zelda franchise will only cause more problems going forward. BOTW and TOTK are the two most successful games, appeasing newer fans of the series, as well as the old will be increasingly difficult.

[@Zen.Connection]

I kind of disagree with the framing that this is a huge shift in approach. Zelda games have always built upon and remixed elements from previous titles, as well as focusing on brand new mechanics/spins for differentiation. I don't really see Fujibayashi's games as being much different in that respect once you account for Tears being a direct sequel to Breath in a way the series has never seen before. I expect the next game to be a fairly radical iteration on the formula established by Breath and Tears, with the potential for discarded elements from previous games to return, and with a brand new central focus. I don't foresee Ultrahand-style object tinkering to be the new pillar of the series. But we will see!

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

It's fine to take some elements of what works well in BotW/TotK, but I want a return to a linear story and traditional dungeons to be part of the formula for this new game

[@madnessarcade7447]

Everyone accepts that Mario and Zelda have different “gimmicks” and mechanics each game But why is it seen as different when Pokemon does it too Mega evolutions Gigantamax Zmoves Etc

[@nintendoforecast]

Yes, I'll be interested to see who the general producer is this time.

[@Drew_2152]

8:30 I hope the Sky Islands or depths dont appear in new titles for gameplay verticality, world verticality, and for the sake of being big vertically. I don’t think every game needs a 3 or 2 layer map but I’m not saying that a game couldn’t have a surface map with a depths map or a surface map with portals leading to a bigger loaded area separate from the surface map almost like Oblivion except those loaded areas were smaller.

[@nintendoforecast]

Interesting point. In TotK, their buzzword was "seamlessness". Perhaps they will be happier to relax their rules on this with another game if they have a different focus they're trying to achieve.

[@lethallohn]

Totally agree that this looks like the future of Zelda games. However, here's what I hope they change in the next game to make it fresh, new, and going back a little toward the old Zelda formula: 1. Have the main abilities scattered throughout the world, which can be obtained in a shrine (or something new), but it then leads you toward a dungeon. You can still access these "open air" dungeons in any order as long as you have the ability, and each respective dungeon is themed around this ability. Doesn't need to be exactly like this, but I don't want to obtain all of the abilities at the start. 2. Have a different or evolved art style. 3. Have a different combat style for this game. It could build on botw and totk combat, but it needs to feel different. 4. Have Link use a musical instrument in this game. 5. Make the final boss behind a completely linear dungeon. I Appreciate the video!

[@nintendoforecast]

Great thoughts!

[@c.nk.01]

i'd kill for twilight princess or windwaker style combat again. it's embarrassing that the most fleshed out combat the series has ever had was around 20 years ago.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

I love Tears of the Kingdom's finale, but having a completly linear dungeon is a great idea. And obtaining the abilities in the way to the dungeon would be interesting too.

[@celestial4565]

​​@@c.nk.01 lots of modern gaming trends are huge turn offs for me these days. Back in the TP days combat felt more instinctive and "sporty". It felt like actually had to out-fool the enemies by mixing up my attacks. Nothing too complex but engaging. Meanwhile modern action games are now this intellectual exercise of combining a bunch of combat mechanics. Games like the new GOW feel more like a kind of "Simon says" of combat mechanics. And Zelda combat just looks like some silly circus routine. Ohhhh but you can be ""creative"". Aka the game isn't fun on its own so you gotta create your own fun

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

@@celestial4565 the game is fun for it has the tools for you to crate your own fun. Not as if it is difficult. It's directly tied to the core gameplay so you have to try very hard not to do it.

[@Leonkennedy19992]

Theres a reason why past games were called "Zelda Likes". Instead of just a open world game.

[@KoenRH2803]

I really dislike his new approach to making games. It makes the games feel more mechanical than a genuine adventure. I have so many problems with TotK. Also this idea of trying to please everyone at once. You can say what you want about WW and TP’s style but at least they made a bold choice and stuck to it

[@kiribati9393]

Well said, ToTK felt very mechanical and not an adventure, and the badly written story did not help

[@Leftiescrewdriver30]

If they want Fujibayashi to work on Zelda games, have him work on worlds other than Hyrule and the lore. Leave the main projects to Aonuma to return to form like the old N64 games and of course maintaining the open world appeal. But I don't know anythjng, I'm just a guy pkays Zelda games..

[@luketj]

my thoughts exactly. nintendos creative prime was the early 2000s, and the 3ds was pretty good too. but it seems like the developers they have now don't make nearly as good games as their old dev teams. it's unfortunate really.

[@reg6790]

And now we have Echoes which takes the mechanic of powers like magnesis or ultra hand- which is essentially interacting with the world and making its parts work for you- Zelda's Echo ability is possibly the most straightforward and most advanced version of this in a Zelda game to date...

[@kagemara277]

I think the one thing that Fujibayashi fails at is building up the main character, making really challenging puzzles, and maintaining solid story with deep lore. TOTK while incredible, Link isn’t as well portrayed as a developing hero as in OOT or Twilight Princess. I love how flexible the game is, but I never once got stuck as in past games since the puzzles are brain dead easy- not that they aren’t fun, but it’s just too streamlined- like Mario Wonder( which lacked the depth of SMB3), and every perk just makes the game easier,…. Regarding lore-it’s hit or miss. TOTK has some great moments but repeating the same info through the ruins and after each boss?!!!! That was so lazy! They could easily do something to introduce the heroes better and their skills so the player can value more the summons he has and their skills. Fujibayashi also didn’t try to reinvent combat- even Twilight Princess tried to bring more stuff. TOTK is a phenomenal game- but can’t we get more than backflip and sidestep?!!!! There is no creativity there- how about jumping sideways and allowing a dodge jumps like in RE6 so Link could jump any direction and pull out the bow for total stamina loss but a last sec bullet time. The heroes could have extra depth like with Each successful parry, you can summon extra hero, and the player could change the order in which they are summoned-adding some skill strategy to combat…Also agree that Fujibayashi somehow disregards deeper lore like two witches that accompany Ganon- Koume and Kotake. There also could be more cultures like Twili and the Mole People. There also should be hidden trifle es that would be a side story after the main boss that could revert Zelda back- the game should have ended leaving Zelda a dragon to show the weight of her sacrifice! This was also very lazy! Bosses were good but also too easy! Please give us more difficulty modes then! If 90% of student fail today and past student could handle the exams, are we gonna cancel exams?! NO! People are just lazy naturally and with time we learn and adapt! These streamlining trends are gonna destroy gaming and the last Mario is a clear proof! Just don’t do this to Zelda!

[@andrewsoto1861]

Bring back traditional dungeons!!!!!!

[@MarkHWillson]

I really, really hope someone at Nintendo is teaching Fujibayashi the beauty of restrictions in game design. Or that he learned about it from ToTK. Too much freedom and ability right at the start of a game can be a detriment to the joy of player character growth - IMHO, it really diminishes the experience. The core abilities in ToTK were so OP it was ridiculous. You can design an open world that still allows for progression. The 90's games are a great example that ought to be studied more closely and followed.

[@cato3277]

There's enough side content in ToTK that I don't find the Korok seeds to be worthwhile. Bubbul Gems felt like a more meaty, worthwhile replacement of Korok seeds, and even paralleled Majora's Mask take on the Gold Skulltulas by confining a collectible to a specific area of the map. Koroks really just felt like filler this time.

[@dragonsigner]

If you look at the first zelds game it have an open world whrre you could go anywhere in any order to sny dungeons in any order. And explore of the beaten path.. ever zeldw game since then had that sort of . sometimes more limited than others WW was open world for sure. TP not so much OoT not so much MM no . Links awakening. Only some Skyward sword. Not much. Lttp yes, OoA/OoA yes

[@mindofone]

Fantastic video, several key points I haven’t thought of. However, I hope that memories don’t stick around. This whole “everything happened in the past” style of story telling is really killing narrative pacing and pigeonholing the main narratives. I’m looking to see stuff like escorting the wagon across Hyrule field like in Twilight Princess. As it stands, memories are just there to lore dump to the player but remove the thrill of being a part of the action. I am sure if they work on it more, they can find a better solution.

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

Stamina Meter is just annoying, I'm gonna be real. And the Para Glider is fun at first, but it trivializes a lot of travel. The way I played BotW was just teleporting to a tower and then just flying around directly to where I wanted to go, not super exciting gameplay to be honest, just sitting in the air for a couple of minutes. And ground travel is annoying when you think about how much more time it takes, but if the glider wasn't even an option and the world was less focused on goals but just the journey itself, it's more fun. The older games don't have you scouting out far away points at the map, whicj leads you to just enjoy the journey on the ground more. There's also more story stuff to be experienced, so yes, in some way, I do want to go back.

[@charleshanson9467]

All the flashiest and multiplicative game mechanics combined over time will not make a successful game unless they figure out how to weave a proper narrative through the entire experience of the game, not just as an add-on to the gameplay itself. The open world format I noticed was left out of your formula, and it too seems here to stay. And I think it needs a massive overhaul from how the story was told in the latest offering. I believe it IS possible to have an open world like the Wild era games and still induce the player to follow a path or order the cut scenes strategically to experience the story and learn the narrative in the correct order for the greatest impact. BotW succeeded because the environment was part of the narrative - Link, amnesiac, had to literally learn everything (and so too the player), and almost no one knew who he really was. Every corner of the map was a new thing with potentially new information or gear for Link to complete his Quest. TotK fell flat on this because the environment, largely reused and otherwise, contributed actually nothing to the narrative. Also, the delivery of the story in any order at the whims of the player revealed critical information about Zelda to the player (and Link) that was useless through the entire play through, making Link seem like some fool for never telling anyone what he knew. They had to hide the largest reveal behind collecting the first 12 Tears, and of course, that worked as intended - why not some set order for the first 12?? Why wasn't collecting the Tears part of a main quest line with item collection and goals? It's in the name of the game, and was fundamentally useless at best, or spoiled the main quest line narrative at worst.

[@CodeRed0]

Nah. Climbing, gliding, "Manipulation, Time, Traversal, and Combat starter abilities," and Koroks(as crappy exploration filler) are all thing that I hope are never used in future Zelda games.

[@randywilliams6248]

I hope to god they steer away from the building mechanic personally. It was fun and unique at first but the fun wore off rather quickly

[@created3612]

My issue was with TotK is that they brought the Zonai devices as this newfound revolutionary mechanic that’ll transform your gameplay in this return to Hyrule. BUT outside of shrines, when do you really need devices? And whenever you do use them, how often are they either pre-built by the game, already stored in your menu, or only require 2-3 parts to build? My point is that these devices aren’t incentivized by the game at all, especially not in a creative manner, which is what they’re meant for. Now - okay, so the devices aren’t adding much, how about the rest of the content? Sure it’s fun, but what makes it fun is that it’s BotW brought over. The Skies, Depths, and story was incredibly underwhelming, and the Surface had virtually no changes. In the next Zelda, most of these problems are likely gonna be solved simply by the fact that they’re gonna have a new world and story and characters besides the main 3. But other than that, I’d like to see a balance between openness and linearity. So player progression can run smoothly, while still maintaining a good feeling of freedom. I don’t like what TotK did with having every puzzle and challenge be easily cheesed.

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

Agreed, what we need is a return to structure with a more linear story and actual dungeons. TotK was way too open-ended to the point where it lacked an identity.

[@charleshanson9467]

The Zonai devices are more critical to exploring the Sky Islands, which unfortunately are so few and far between they barely earn any replay once you've done all the shrines and fought the bosses.

[@takemetoyonk]

13:10 I'm sure everyone's saying this to you but you can also create flat ice platforms in Totk, like in Majora's Mask.

[@codekhalil6437]

My main issue with totk was once you got the abilities they weren't super mandatory. Like I would love to have traversed via railcart from Island to Island more. It's kind of like in breath of the wild where you chop the tree down (on the great plateau) in order to get to the other Cliffside. That was barely used again in the game lmao! Don't just discard something like that after introducing it. Give players a sense of need and urgency.

[@nintendoforecast]

This is a really interesting point. And yes, railcarting from island to island would be amazing.

[@fondajames]

Botw felt like a tech demo before totk lol it lacked so much content normal for the franchise

[@Feniksds]

Might sound crazy but i actually think that most of totk's story /ideas were there before botw. But that stuff at the time+ some directions of the story made it be scrapped just like some stuff from majora's mask. So after that i think they did botw and its dlc. I think its the reason why totk's backstory takes place before botw. The other thing i wanted to say although they're not gonna make it in this hyrule. I do believe they will make a different kinda zelda game but with the same link in another part of the world. Botw was around the sheikah and their blue (wisdom) sheikah tech. Just like how zelda 1 was about getting the triforce of wisdom. The second game of zelda was about getting the triforce of courage. But instead of focusing on zelda 2, think they tried making TOTK to BOTW like zelda 1 to ALTTP. But with kinda the same map. But the general idea of the triforce of courage is there. The Zonai tech is all based on spirits. The machines aren't soulles like the sheikahs. They are spirits. So i am very sure the next game will be something worse then ganondorf. It will be about power/malice. And you can say what you want but, i am still certain Calamity Ganon was something else that wasn't Ganondorf that used his power. And i am certain it survived and went somewhere. As last part i think their og goal was 1 big game with botw,totk and then some extra content in another world. My guess is that that other world is what they are working on now.

[@Drew_2152]

I kinda almost don’t want Wild Era Link to return. I love BOTW and though I like TOTK I dislike it more than I like the game. Because of that I just feel like Wild Era Link would just ruin a new world where we could be getting a different Link to play as. I mean a Triforce trilogy isn’t a bad idea it’s what the Oracle games had in mind before scrapping the third one but I’d rather not see Wild Era Link for a long time.

[@savaget2058]

I really would love to see Loftwings return

[@nintendoforecast]

Me too. Very surprised/sad they weren't in Tears at all.

[@javiervasquez625]

I've heard theories which believe the reason why Loftwings have disappeared from the mortal world is due to Hylia having become a goddess again and so taking all the Loftwings back to the "God Realm" above the skies of Hyrule. Only way for the Loftwings to return would be if Hylia returned back to the surface world.

[@ProfessorBinks]

the best thing they could do is move as far away from everything they tried in botw and totk.

[@avo.avocado]

I completely disagree. Why would they throw away everything they’ve worked on for almost 10 years at this point? Sure, I think they should bring back some linearity, story, and sense of progression, but acting like botw/totk has nothing of value is just silly

[@ProfessorBinks]

@@avo.avocado "why would they throw everything away", that's an excellent question, wish I had the answer but that's exactly what they did when botw came out, and we know they're moving away for botw for the next games, which I can't me more thankful for.

[@cato3277]

Hell no! Combine the best of the past and present.

[@ghoulishgoober3122]

​​​Phantom Hourglass, Minish Cap, and Skyward Sword also contained these elements, the grinding, the open-ish world, really the grinding of shrines and koroks, and lack of dungeons are the main differences. It just lacks linearity and has a disjointed story compared to the other games, also item progression and dungeons being different/nonexistent. But otherwise, which zelda games are you talking about that they threw everything away with the newer games? Fujibayashi directed/designed those other games too, and Aonuma has confirmed botw/totk is the new format going forwards, so they're likely gonna be doing more of the same. Which is to say what they've been doing since minish cap.

[@peanutmans0]

Explain than bruh

[@HylianSwordsman1]

I think you may be onto something with the idea that we're settling into a new formula, but I think you overestimate how settled things are. Part of the repeating patterns you're seeing and pointing out here are going to come from the fact that TotK was a direct sequel. You're absolutely right that key mechanics get brought back from previous titles in a reinvented way, but what I think you're missing (but not entirely, as you brought up in your own counterpoint) is that when a mechanic becomes overarching and defining for a Zelda title, it becomes muted in future titles. Masks will never again define a title like MM did, nor will shrinking or tiny people like MC did, nor ocean traversal like WW did, but elements of them do come back in muted forms, like how BotW and moreso TotK had or planned to have all of these to some degree. I suspect we'll never again see the level of extreme manipulation that TotK's ultrahand brought. My own counterpoint, however: Dark/mirror/parallel/hidden worlds are a major, gameplay defining idea that comes back in some form almost every single title now, ever since LttP. OoT and OoA had time travel, OoS transformed the world with seasonal changes, WW had the world below the ocean and wanted that to be as expansive as TotK's depths but it got cut, TP had the effects of twilight, LBW had a parallel world, Skyward Sword had both Sky/Surface and future/past, MC had tiny/big, and of course TotK had the sky and the depths. When that mechanic isn't present, some similar major mechanic has pushed it out, like MM's 3 day cycle, the mega dungeons in the DS games, the short stages of the multiplayer games, or the revolution that was BotW. But it keeps coming back. I think for BotW/TotK and their contribution to the franchise, we'll see that not with a manipulation ability per se, but with the physics and chemistry engines. These will DEFINITELY be present in every game going forward. To not have them would be to split 3D Zelda into two different series, it's just that night and day. The expansion in our ability to manipulate the environment and the potential it brings is something they'll never give up. It might not always have such a powerful tool like ultrahand, but highly interactive environments with emergent gameplay are here to stay, and like parallel worlds, have endless potential to be reinvented. It just might not look as formulaic as you present here, just as the parallel worlds mechanic doesn't look formulaic and manifests quite differently each time.

[@nintendoforecast]

Yes, very astute points. I guess the question is how fundamentally do they want to start over each game?

[@ToeCutter0]

I feel there are two competing ideas within modern Zelda games: Free style exploration (damn near perfect in BOTW) and linear gameplay (something I actually miss). The last two games provide 4 areas similar to traditional "dungeons", while providing puzzles that are distributed among the many shrines. I'd like to see shrines go away entirely and their puzzles integrated into more traditional dungeon settings. I'm not interested in spending most of my time playing in dungeons, but they've taken a back seat to shrines. I'd like to see more than 4 dungeons to explore. It feels like TOTK gave us caves and wells to supplement the shrines and temples, but TWO of them were wide open among the sky islands? I'd also like to see greater separation between fusing/building and combat. I thought Ultrahand was an absolute pain to use? I'd have preferred something like a workshop that offered a separate interface for building? Build easily, than save builds for immediate use during combat, etc. I played both BOTW and TOTK in 2023 for the very first time. Because of this, I feel that BOTW had far greater impact than TOTK. I played BOTW for hours before finally realizing that I could go ANYWHERE I could see. I was waiting for a loading screen that never came as I got farther and farther away from The Great Plateau. It was a shocking realization that increased by motivation to explore dramatically. I found TOTK a bit jarring, as the world had changed so much that my BOTW experience was essentially useless. Both are phenomenal games, but once you've progress through much of the story you begin to realize just how much of each game's world is.....empty? I'd pay good money for a DLC that showed me what a pristine Hyrule looked like before the Calamity/Upheaval, like the brief glimpse we got of the Sanctum in TOTK while chasing Zelda sightings. It was brief, but I really enjoyed seeing what everything looked like before the Calamity/Upheaval. I'm still working on TOTK having completed all the shrines, wells and caves. I've expanded all 3 weapon stashes to max but still have a few areas to complete to 100%, so perhaps the final battle with Ganon will reveal some more of what I'm craving. Both BOTW & TOTK have been some of the best games I've ever played. We've come so far since the OG Miyamoto Zelda titles, which is why I feel there's more than enough interest in Zelda for Nintendo to continue developing 2.5D versions of Zelda in parallel with the open world versions that have set the bar for adventure games. Note: I've edited this to correct some totally mangled grammar that spell check missed. I could barely make sense of the last paragraph?!

[@nintendoforecast]

Interesting ideas. I have to say though, I do like the shrines - they definitely add interest and focal points to the world.

[@UltravioletNomad]

Please do not take this as me throwing shade, but the physics engine and manipulation in BOTW and TOTK is novel for Zelda as a series, but rather sophomoric when compared to the wide range of immersive sims that have existed for decades. That's not me saying Nintendo is lazy, having the decision to make interacting in the environment be broad simple rules is likely a VERY intentional choice and definitely part of Nintendo's creed of mechanics being reasonably approachable. But unfortunately the result is that some puzzles are much to broad, leading people to feel like they could have done anything to accomplish a rather simple task, and others too narrow. I feel like when you combine this with another criticism, in that the only time the game can craft a satisfying puzzle is in sectioned off rooms, completely divorced from the world building of the surface, and usually limiting your resources, it becomes clear that with the 4 abilities and all the tools you can gather that a starting player becomes immediately too powerful. At that point, the interaction with the overworld becomes optional. 90 percent of the time it is a make believe game where one must make their own fun because the optimal solutions are versatile catch all tools, and tinkering creates an inefficient lengthy diversion that doesn't match the moment to moment gameplay of the dense world design. But this is just a verbose way for me to suggest that ultrahand and the current climbing mechanic is entirely too powerful to build meaningful world design, at least as I expect it from a Zelda game, where the environment itself is constantly presenting traversal problems for you to solve... now that I'm saying it, Death Stranding would have been a great example of immersive traversal puzzles if most of the map wasn't intentionally barren. As another commenter pointed out, games like ALTTP gates progression with challenges and items, and interior spaces like caves present more natural puzzles. Its something that BOTW and TOTK doesn't have as the degree of freedom is far too powerful and therefore they have to expect that the players can get to point B from any direction, hence why they have to nuke including many puzzles into the world building and put them in contextually removed Shrines. I really hope that the complex physics engine stays, but if building is a major feature I hope its at least a much more discrete feature, perhaps the ability to combine more traditional Zelda progression items with objects in the environment for increasingly unique combinations (preferably objects that you can't easily horde a stack of 99 of). Like imagine collecting lengths of rope, a pick item, a bow, and meat. When combined with the bow you can create a rope dart, when combined with a pick you can vault down and across walls, and when combined with meat it can be a trap or lead. Perhaps the rope when used alone can be tied to any surface, and then tied again to create a trip or a high wire. Its a mechanic that's selectively used in a lot of adventure games, but most of the time its specific contextual relationships and... the rope isn't limited. The rope arrows in Tomb Raider Reboot for instance is a one time upgrade that's always as long as you need it and only works on specific poles. In my example, your rope will only be as long as you have collected, and you're encouraged to use it anywhere, and you'll need it cause you can just climb over everything. Hell, imagine trying one end to a rock, another to some large obstacle, and throwing the rock over a beam to create a pully, then maybe using iron boots to pull if you have it. Or maybe if you've done some quest to acquire power bracelets you get the option to push the obstacle using stamina, or if you don't have iron boots you'll have to tie the other end to something else. These are the relationships I was expecting back when Aonuma/Miyamoto were describing the physics engine of BOTW, the idea that progression would mean I'd HAVE to create a solution with what I have and not that I'd just have to choose one of many options always available (or in the case of shrines a very specific intended set of options where there's an easy way and a hard way that's just you not noticing the easy way.)

[@nintendoforecast]

Very interesting thoughts.

[@Trazynn]

I wish MMO's like WoW had that same mindset. Each expansion there's new features, but it's always self-contained content, invalidating everything that's already there. Players leave the current continent for a new continent and only incidentally revisit. Blizzard's mistake is to focus on episodic story telling where each zone is part of a larger narrative, which means that every zone is always frozen in the moment that was relevant for that story, and thus instantly becomes redundant once a new page is turned. If Blizzard focused on building a world rather than building a story, the game would keep on expanding as an enormous evergreen universe.

[@dlazyace9116]

Can they do these with their other IPs?

[@mandatorial]

I get your logic, but if that was true, why haven't we seen mask transformations or Zora swimming or sailing or bird flying return?

[@nintendoforecast]

My guess is that programming in each of these would either have clashed with existing mechanics or not added enough to the gameplay. For swimming you'd need underwater, loftwings would undercut the centrality of Zonai devices and masks would need to be individually programmed if they were any more functional than the kind of thing Kilton trades in.

[@atvacs1997]

What I don't really like about the new powers, is that they are much more fiddly to use than their botw counter part. Want to damage an enemy in botw? Spawn a bomb and launch it. Want to damage an enemy in botw? Open ultrahand, remember it's the wrong power, change to autobuild, find the build, wait for it to build (if you have enough zonaite), put it down. AND THEN you can use it. In botw the powers where much more streamlined but still versatile in their simplicity, while in totk they are much more powerful but very convoluted when you actually need them for something simple (that is what you need them for most of the time).

[@Leftiescrewdriver30]

They really need to work on streamlining the gameplay and inventory. I hated to trying to scroll for item attachments to fire my bow and arrow. Botw did a much better job because it wasn't bombard with all that extra crap. If they wanna add more stuff, at least make it user friendly and make it make sense. Like why have an extra slot to pull up the map in the ability wheel when you already have the minus button to pull it up? They need to fix the button mapping in the next one as what they did with the sage for commands was unacceptable. Like common, calling for the sages and them running away? Unnecessary.

[@unblairable]

what excites me about the future of zelda is the extremely solid and robust foundation they’ve built with botw and totk. they really had to put in the work, and i do believe certain parts of the games suffered a bit as a result, but i think it’s more than worth it in the end all the lessons they learned in world building and exploration with botw, and the robust physics system they perfected for totk are now tools in their repertoire to flesh out and bring to life whatever incredible new concept they come up with for the next instalment. now that they’ve put in the hard work of hammering out this foundation, they have the privilege of just sprinkling it into future games as they see fit, and i honestly couldn’t be more excited to see what they do next

[@anthonyrivas5321]

I honestly don't care about what they do in a new zelda game but I really really hope that purah will be in it because I love her so much and I would hate if they got rid of her.

[@Pratendo]

I like the part „sprinkling into future games“. I completely agree and like to go even further. I think they won’t reuse assets and literal parts from Botw/Totk, but the way and approaching methods for how they came up with new ideas and concepts. Also very exciting for the next one

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

If you're talking about the graphics and physics engine, sure, but the series should seriously go back to having a linear story with actual dungeons instead of doing the whole shrines and memories thing again. It can have a huge overworld again, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the main story content, and it shouldn't take another 6-7 years to develop.

[@unblairable]

@@TheRealPSKilla502 totally agree. i’d honeslty even be fine with the next game being significantly smaller than botw if it means we get a tighter story and more involved dungeons in exchange

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

@@unblairable I don't know if it would happen, but what I really want is another game like Twilight Princess, with a linear story, at least 10 amazing dungeons, and a darker tone, with some quality of life improvements like modern graphics, full voice acting, and the like. It needs to have that epic feel to it again.

[@foxyfox5]

Wowzers. I cannot believe I've discovered this chanel so early on. It's only a matter of time before it explodes. Great work.

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you!

[@Kaervak]

I feel like Fuse will probably be reused in some way in the next game. Outside of elixers and selling for profit, in BotW the vast majority of materials dropped by enemies and found on the overworld had very limited uses. In TotK, Fuse made materials and monster parts have an extra layer of usefulness. Something as simple as a fire Lizalfos can -make elixers -sell for profit -upgrade armor level But with Fuse it can now also -increase weapon attack -give weapon elemental property -become fire arrow projectile -attach to shield for cold resistance

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

Weapon crafting I think is the next logical step. Not just fusing monster parts onto weapons, but using them as materials for crafting brand new weapon and equipment all together! Skyward Sword played around with a similar mechanic, and I feel like combining that with TotK's fuse would make an even better system!

[@921Ether]

4:15 literally, i have never heard anyone say that twilight princess' artstyle turned them off and this is supported by that fact that the twilight princess link design is always the most popular one in polls. its simply not true that there needed to be a more cell shaded look as not to turn off players. the only reason nintendo stuck to it is because it is easier to create and saves on performance when rendering. plus, twilight princess sold better than both windwaker and skyward sword.

[@cherubin7th]

I heard often twilight princess didn't age well.

[@chooongusbug724]

TP is hands down the worst 3d Zelda game due to how much of a retread it was of OoT and it's bland artstyle. Stop the cap, there's a lot who bash TP for being the mediocre experience it was Edit: you mention sales? TP selling well is what made a lot of people realize Zelda was getting stale with the OoT formula because it wound up in the hands of quite a few people. And since you wanna mention sales, you do know what the best selling Zelda entries are, right? Sure as hell isn't OoT, MM, WW or TP...It's BotW/TotK 🥰

[@921Ether]

@@chooongusbug724 good job for figuring out that those games sold more units because they appealed to a larger audience. by your logic oot would be a worse 3d zelda because its a literal retreading of a link to the past. hands down worst? when skyward sword exists... oohkay buddy

[@chooongusbug724]

@@921Ether you're the one who mentioned sales like TP selling about 9 million meant something when BotW sold 30 million and TotK 20 million lol (by your logic, due to sales, BotW/TotK Link is the most popular you dolt), I just replied to that. Good job figuring out that sales don't always equate to something being a hit...Like TP showed lol. You old good, new bad zoomers are obnoxious Edit: oh shit, you play Fire Emblem, no wonder you have this shit take lol

[@921Ether]

@@chooongusbug724 read my comment again because you might have misinterpreted some things: - I only said that twilight princess' art design did not turn people off from playing the game. And that the sales numbers reflect that. - I never equated sales numbers to the quality of the games. Only that the twilight princess link design is the favourite whenever theres a poll about which link design is people's favourite - I never said that I disliked Botw or Totk, they are both phenomenal, and that goes for ever 3d zelda - I am not a zoomer im in my early 30s - What has me having a fire emblem video on my channel thats about modding the game to do with the validity of what im saying?

[@Arvy1987]

Best gaming 👍👍

[@danyul2571]

I hope the next Zelda is more grounded, and closer to shadow of the colossus in a way, rather than climbing everything and anything. A real sword and sorcery type afventure with rewarding puzzles and incredible atmosphere. I think Nintendo isn't afraid of trying different things, and botw really showed that. But for whatever reason i dont feel like a hero in totk. I feel like a dork running around ueing machines to do all my dance fighting. The boss fights in tears are great, phantom Ganons being my favourite. Thats the momebt where i felt the game remembered what a Zelda game was. The rest feels like a child friendly GTA. I really enjoy the game and still play it! It's funner to play than breath and all the others. But i like breath more. In fact i like all the major 3D Zelda games more than tears. I also think the concept of fixed or changing camera angles in select places could make a return in Zelda to cement certain locations in my memory years later. I also think the glider is cool but not as an item i can oull outta my ass all the time. If im high up, i should feel a sense of vertigo and unease. However shield surfing can stay in every Zelda game that is by far the coolest thing since twilight!!! I need it. I crave it. And underwater areas and exploration. Underwater has been neglected in modern games. Peoples common phobias should be respectfully utilized in games. It helps kids grow and provides adults with entertainment value, like roller coasters and bungie jumping are in RL. Tears is more like a playground at the park than a thrilling adventure with twists and turns.

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

It's like the devs forgot what makes classic LOZ so unique and beloved by fans, and instead decided to create a game that caters to the Minecraft/Fortnite/GTA crowd, and just slapped a LOZ-themed coat of paint on it. Casual gamers these days just don't care about well crafted stories, complex puzzle solving, or anything that actually makes them think. They just want to mess around in an open world sandbox that offers instant gratification.

[@scikoolaid]

@@TheRealPSKilla502 So weird but your probably right. I don't get alot of enjoyment out of those kinds of "build your own fun" games compared to a very tight well-designed challenging game like the Zelda series used to be. Now, forget it. They first made damage such a joke that there's no reason to return the different mail colors. Then they added item endurances (like I get it, it can make sense, but not very fun to make everything disposable). Then the open world finally happens, and like the usual Nintendo way, we get it, but they can't really fill in all the space other than just copy pasting tons of the same kind of stuff everywhere. This was apparent in Wind Waker but at least they had unique islands that sometimes had some kind of treasure to fight to get to in some way. I think they need to try taking Zelda back to a solid 2d format the way Mario can do 2d and 3d very well and even combine both types of games into another form entirely... Zelda seems to be ignoring it's 2d roots and trying to ride along strictly sticking to 3d.

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

@@scikoolaid A major issue is there are several different ideas of what constitutes a LoZ game. There are the fans of 2D games who want to see more focus on puzzle solving, there are fans of the traditional linear 3D games, namely OoT and TP, who want more focus on dungeons and storytelling, and sometimes a darker tone, and there are fans of the more open 3D games, many of whom started as WW fans, who want more focus on nonlinear overworld exploration. IMO the release of WW was what really divided the fanbase, since people were expecting another serious, action-focused game like OoT based on the GC tech demo, but what we got instead was a cartoony game with a ton of sailing, and which was lacking in terms of dungeons and more structured gameplay. While WW was originally hated on for its cartoony artstyle, causing Nintendo to release TP to satisfy market demand, it ultimately became very popular among a large portion of the fanbase for its overworld exploration, while linear games like TP and SS got criticized as being too formulaic. I will note, though, that I really only noticed TP criticism after the release of SS, which had its own issues, and also released the same year as Skyrim, which obviously had a major impact on the industry. So Nintendo decided to completely scrap the old formula, which had been the series identity since ALttP, in favor of chasing the mid 2010s open world trend to appeal to the mass market. Since they seem to have no interest in making a new 3D game in the old style for at least the next decade, many of us fans of the traditional 3D games were hoping that the 2D games would continue the old formula with their focus on dungeons. Unfortunately, the reveal of EoW and its mechanics similar to TotK (as well as its reuse of the LA remake artstyle, which I hate) means that the old formula is likely gone for good, which is very unfortunate. It is clear now that Nintendo only cares about fans of the new open world games, and those of us who liked the old formula have been completely abandoned in the process. TL;DR: Many LoZ fans, myself included, have been concerned about the direction the series has been headed for a long time, and it is clear from TotK and EoW that we are being completely ignored by Nintendo.

[@scikoolaid]

@@TheRealPSKilla502 Not too long, read it all. I agree and thinking back to the reveal of Wind Waker and my own decision to only pre-order it for the bonus discs was clearly evidence something was changing but I denied it. I enjoyed Wind Waker despite everything, it was beautifully crafted what was there, its really unfortunate that Nintendo ended up forcing Wind Waker to release earlier rather than when it was finished. A key reason that game still sours me is the lack of dungeons, and you could tell the rushed sense near the end they clearly just needed you to waste more of your time for padding the play time. I again jumped into TP hoping it was the return I hoped for but it really didn't deliver in that regard, that was the first Zelda I got so bored being forced to play everything in order I stopped for years before finally going back to finish it. 2d was my hope for hope but we haven't seen it. Minish cap was good but showed they didn't want to spend alot of time making large games in that way. Sucks. I couldn't finish Skyward Sword I still play to, but it just isn't the same kind o fun. This is the worst, Zelda falling into same category of StarFox and F-Zero for me, as a series that won't live up to it's now nearly 20 year old entries in terms of how good they truely are.

[@TheRealPSKilla502]

@@scikoolaid Personally, I love the more structured gameplay of OoT and TP, and it’s time they brought back some linearity if it means we get actual dungeons and a better story. I also really miss the metroidvania style item-gated progression where the world gradually opens up. I was hoping that TotK would bring some of this back, but it is clear now that they have no intention of doing so, and instead, they doubled down on everything I didn’t like about BotW. I appreciate some level of innovation, but not when they’re completely scrapping everything I enjoyed about the series to begin with just to appeal to a wider audience. It’s also unfortunate because very few other games do what LoZ does, so it feels like an entire genre of games is just gone now.

[@jacejunk]

Insightful.

[@nathanieldearinger1673]

I hate open-air Zelda. I hated my time with Breath of the Wild so much I have absolutely no interest in Tears of the Kingdom. I have been a huge fan of the Legend of Zelda since the NES. Twilight Princess and A Link Between Worlds are the last Zelda games I enjoyed. I miss traditional Zelda. I hate Korok seeds. Shoot, I hate the leaf faced Koroks. I hated them in Windwaker and I hate them in open air Zeldas. I hate weapons breaking. It wouldn't be so bad if you could repair your weapons or somehow get weapons that don't break. When I played breath of the Wild, I really thought I would find a blacksmith to repair weapons. I especially thought I would be able to repair the Guardian weapons. It could be a great mix of the traditional Zeldas and the open-air Zeldas if you could get permanent weapons with multiple applications in dungeons. Nintendo could keep the abilities from open-air Zelda and bring back the double clawshot. I miss my boomerang. Sure, there are weapons that you can use like boomerangs in open-air Zelda but they suck and the break. I miss repeatedly stunning enemies as I approach them from a distance with the various tools in Link's arsenal. I miss the Metroidvania moments of seeing something I will be able to interact with later after I get the right tool. I miss traditional Zelda!

[@Mr.Chimpazee]

Childish mindset

[@takemetoyonk]

15:40 I agree. Time being a core mechanic again is a very dour outlook as a lifelong Zelda fan. I am more intrigued by the Fuse mechanic, just as I was with possession in Mario Odyssey. It's such an instant change to gameplay caused by a relatively easy decision. I'm looking forward to an inevitable return of animals related to Link, music playing, and being under the water. I was hoping for caves in this game and it was surprisingly everything I wanted.

[@paintfatpurple7394]

Prepare to be astonished

[@chaoslord8918]

It's interesting to think that Nintendo might not be able to go backwards after all the features they put in BotW and TotK. Just like how the dungeons, item progression, and music playing all got better and better from OoT to MM, WW, TP, and SS, all before reaching their peak in the latest two games... right?

[@wordofmouth7679]

Mad props to the new abilities and the massive map in ToTK on the heels of BoTW. Graphics are not a deal breaker for me as I still play 8- and 16-but games and I hate to say it, but the future of the franchise may depend on a stronger console.

[@arc6017]

Great video, deserves way more traction. I also can´t see Zelda returning to the more linear and closed world formula. I mean, why would you? I play Zelda since the 90´s and this last 2 games are by far the most engaging, fun, expressive, beautiful games I´ve played in my life. I have more than 300 hours in BOTW and TOTK will surpass that! I never did so much time (not even close) in any other great games/franchises that I played in my life. I love it so much that I wish (and I know it´s pretty much impossible to happen) they made this a triology and release yet another one in the same world map, this time with all rebuilt before the calamity, especially the castle and castle town. It´s my only complain of TOTK, think it was a missed oportunity. I don´t really see myself loving another Zelda like these two: The map, the artstyle, the shrines, the towns, the habilities, the pace, the lore, the views, etc.....I´m really hooked to it. Again, great video. Cheers.

[@nintendoforecast]

Yes, it's surprising they didn't show it rebuilt as I agree that would have been amazing. Or I'd love to have seen beyond the edge of Hyrule to the north. And thank you!

[@derockgonecrazy]

I would love to see the powers leave and the item system return. It was fun (not so much in tears, rather tedious actually) but there is no progression or sence of reward other than basic exploration for its own sake.

[@JohanJung]

"Tears of the Kingdom makes BOTW looks like a tech demo". I am sorry, TOTK *is a tech build* game. In addition, BOTW has a better story. Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity also has a better story than TOTK IMHO. That being said, TOTK is a great game but also a lacy "copy and paste" features, often reused from BOTW. There are some major missed opportunities in TOTK: the world has hardly rebuild at all, there should have been more people, more houses etc. Also, sea travel is missing - the lack of "real" pirates is not good. Not being able to enter the ruins of Akkala Citadel was also a big let down... Age of Calamity nailed that one for sure. Finally, it would have been nice with an underground civilisation in the depths.

[@DaBaconator8461]

Theyve been building on ideas for years. Islands and paragliding being in ww, ss, and totk Dungeons in any order like from the original, alttp, albw, botw and totk Collecting and using monster parts in ss, ph, st, totk, botw and albw Almost all the games have some variation of the dark world Only thing fujibiyashi did in my eyes was dumb down all the mechanics and items into 4 abilities, then removed the creative aspects of the games like playing instruments, having another/several different forms to turn into, and memorable side characters and companions

[@hist150project5]

Why can't they just make each Zelda game different instead of copy and pasting the same formula over and over again? It's so ironic that the whole design philosophy of BotW was to make something completely different, and now they just want to keep remaking that game again and again. I swear if the next Zelda game has shrines and korok seeds I'm not buying it.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

What are you talking about? BotW's philosophy wasn't to make something different just because. It had to be good in the Zelda standards. Then you watch a video on what the next games could be and assume they will be all the same? Do you know stuff that not even the Zelda team know? Are you a time traveler? Do you have the power of clarevoyence?

[@hist150project5]

@@aaaaaaaaaa190 The entire reason that they made BotW is because people were complaining that the old formula was getting repetitive. Yes, they did design BotW to be different.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

@@hist150project5 Read my entire comment, not just the first two sentences

[@knatkniht]

​@aaaaaaaaaa190 They already rehashed the game once, took 6 years to do it, and then sold it for $70 to massive critical and financial success. While I know they've said they'll work on a new hyrule now, that doesn't mean it won't be more undesigned sandbox slop like totk was. Fujibayashi clearly has no desire to provide strong level design in his games, and that won't change.

[@vidfreak727]

Tears was basically a weapons factory 😎

[@bradenalexander2477]

Fujibayashi is the worst thing to happen to Zelda! Pass the baton to someone who cares about a meaningful story!

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

He cares more than Miyamoto. Just pay attention to the difference between Zelda I and Skyward Sword.

[@RedCloudsBlackSky]

I agree lets get someone new in there

[@evanskan6326]

I have total faith in Aonuma, Fujibayashi and the rest of the team. One gameplay element that I believe we all expect them to add in the next game is to have both Link and Zelda as playable characters. Maybe have a new villain/threat and both of them have to work together (perhaps along with the "Champions") in order to deal with it. I am certain Nintendo will surprise us once more. Now, if the Switch successor is indeed that much more powerful - based on the reports - I would love to see a Zelda game with the graphics quality of Kena.

[@javiervasquez625]

I have a feeling the "Champions"/Sages will be gone in the next major game both to avoid been derivative in terms of repeating the exact same narrative approach as the recent 2 games while also write a more "personal" story with a Link who starts his quest by himself with no established allies or friends at his side been instrumental in him achieving the objective of saving the kingdom. After 2 full games of Link needing the help of his friends to save the world i feel it is a logical turn to allow the Hero to have a more personal adventure without a team of "superfriends" following him around at his beck and call like in Tears of the Kingdom.

[@nintendoforecast]

This is a really good point. I sometimes wonder if the "superfriends" were initially created with an eye on a possible multiplayer functionality that never eventuated.

[@19TheFallen]

It's kind of a frustrating thing to note that back in the _Skyward Sword_ era, we *almost* GOT a playable Zelda! From what I've read, they actually developed a side adventure for her that would have been unlocked as an additional save file once you defeated Demise......She'd have had her own weapons, gear, Hearts and boss fights, and it would've shown everything that happened from the moment that she went on her final ride on her Loftwing with Link, only to get knocked down to the surface by the tornado Ghirahim caused on to the moment she sealed herself away in that crystal from her perspective......And then, late in development......they scrapped it, turning it into a brief montage that showed the major parts of her adventure as developed that was played during the credits.......All I can say to that is "What a LOST opportunity!"

[@nintendoforecast]

@@19TheFallen Amazing. Do you have any more info/sources about this? I'm intrigued.

[@keithtorgersen9664]

Willing to entertain a new storyline concept, but just hoping that they just make it consistent.

[@digitaldazzle5836]

Damn good video!

[@MatteoPoldrugo]

Does this mean I can blame Fujibayashi for changing zelda into a low plot physics sandbox? Can I blame Fujibayashi for substituting puzzlebox dungeons for tiny challenge rooms? That's cool. Thanks Fujibayashi for throwing away zelda in favor of nuts n bolts 2.

[@tvb5509]

BotW and TotK just feel monotonous to me. The weapon, item, and bow variety feels redundant because they're all interchangeable. You find a shiny sword with an impressive description, and it plays just like a branch. It isn't even much of an upgrade since they still shatter after a while. Every Shrine you enter is aesthetically dull. You have to wait through two loading screens to get a fraction of an an upgrade; the same as every other shrine. Plus they feel completely disconnected from the rest of the world. I feel the Koroks handled this concept much better. Zelda's open world fomula makes each area feel stagnant. What you do with the Rito has no effect on what you do with the Gorons, which has minimal effect on what happens with the finale. This makes Link's feats feel unimportant. uMii NPCs are lifeless. It's hard to remember any of them. Honey and Darling are memorable even if they only have, like, 4 different dialogues because of their design. The cannon clown in TP is memorable for looking the way he does. There's the running man, Link's fangirls in TP, Stritch... You may not remember their names, but you remember who they were when you see them because they have design. Having all abilities unlocked at the start made the game feel dull the longer it went on. I liked earching new items, no matter how redundant. It made me feel truly powerful with a full inventory of tools even if TotK Link is objectively more versatile. Limitations lead to creativity. I'll admit, the big enemies in the Wild games are great. Lynels, Guardians, and Gleeoks are terrifying and satisfying to slay.

[@cj_neocloud940]

I'm more concerned about the theme of the next Zelda game. It would be refreshing for them to move from the Renaissance kingdom theme and more towards a more modern theme, or to be more careful; they could move to a more Victorian style royalty theme.

[@nintendoforecast]

I always like the train aesthetic from Spirit Tracks so more of an 'age of steam' tone could work really well.

[@cj_neocloud940]

@@nintendoforecast I loved the train theme too. I just wish they gave us an option to use a mic, or buttons for the music. it's difficult to progress when your mics messed up lol.

[@Leftiescrewdriver30]

Outer space with time travel through the Triforce as the original concept work for the NES Zelda had chips to 'Link' our hero between past and future.

[@savaget2058]

This may seem a bit cheesy, but when I think about the "multiplicative gameplay" concept and I consider the series history, this concept comes to mind. Link has already undergone many transformations, from the minor changes like the mirror world version in Link to the Past to Adult Link in Ocarina of Time to the major transformations of Majora's Mask and more specifically Wolf Link in Twilight Princess. What if in the next game, it is set in the same type of BotW open world environment and the creatures that you encounter you can transform into them in order to use their unique strengths and skills to better traverse the world and complete puzzles and what not. I guess it's wishful thinking because it would allow Wolf Link to return in some capacity, but I think it could be a fun and really deep mechanic they could take advantage. There could be dozens of possibilities for what creatures he could become and the scale of dungeons could be correlated to specific creatures in the game. Of course you could still have your traditional Link running around and fighting and completing quests, this would just open a whole new layer to how you approach all of the situations you're tasked with completing. I don't know, I admit it seems kind of cheesy but I think Nintendo could pull it off and make it really fun 😅

[@nintendoforecast]

Absolutely love this idea. It has echoes of Odyssey/Wonder and I think Nintendo's teams do cross-pollinate ideas quite often. I always thought Wolf Link could make a fantastic spin-off game in its own right but this would definitely shake things up big time.

[@mrwho995]

An interesting, well-reasoned video. Good to have you back! I know you mention this in the video, but I don't really think we should extrapolate on a new formula based on only two games, with Tears being a direct asset-reusing sequel. You make a fair point that it being a sequel should have made Nintendo *more* likely to change things up, and I agree it *should* have done, but it didn't (which is part of why personally I thought Tears felt so incredibly stale, but that's another coversation). Given we're in a world where Nintendo wasn't very interested in making Tears feel like its own game I think we should keep that in mind before extrapolating too much into the future. The quotes you put up on screen I think should be taken more at face value. As Nintendo fans we can sometimes tend to disregard what Nintendo says about certain thigs, or twist them in quite unnatural ways, so as to satisfy our pre-conceived notions, and with respect I kinda feel like you're doing that a bit in this case. Because to me, those quotes, especially at 11:40, make it very clear that the freedom brought by Ultrahand is not something Fujibayashi is looking to do again. I think the main reason why the lack of the glider in Tears of the Kingdom feels so jarring is because it's the same world, gameplay, UI, etc as Breath of the Wild. I don't get that feeling at all when replaying previous 3D Zeldas. Personally, I just don't think that missing an Ultrahand-like device in the next game will feel weird at all, because if it's not there, then the game won't be built around it. I think the glider is probably here to stay, but I don't see any reason Nintendo would feel the need to keep an ultra-hand like device, or stick to the rigid structure of four abilities you get at the start of the game that fit into categories. Another factor worth considering is that the Zelda team is usually very open to criticism and as you say in the video can even over-correct based on it. Obviously, the initial impression of ToTK was near-universally positive, and the sales are exemplary, so this will certainly be less of a factor than in the past, but I think Nintendo will still at least be aware of people not liking the memory system, not liking how closely the game follow the Breath formula, etc etc. I think it would be very silly of Nintendo to get rid of one set of conventions for the series only to create a new much more rigid set of conventions like 'a story told through memories', 'Link gets four abilities at the start of the game, one like ultrahand, one traversal, one combat, and one about time manipulation', etc etc. Zelda has always been about change, and I think sticking to such rigid conventions would get stale for more quickly than the old, much looser set of conventions we had. To be fair though, all of this is through the lense of someone who was really burned by Tears and wants Nintendo to change things up in the next Zelda, so my perspective is biased. Perhaps this video will turn out to be bang on the money.

[@nintendoforecast]

All excellent points. I tend to think that, unless specifically challenged, many of the things BotW introduced will become conventions almost by default because they can't focus on upending everything every time but you make some very compelling points.

[@mrwho995]

@@nintendoforecast Yeah I agree with you that many of the things introduced will be conventions - I think we mostly disagree on the extent of it. I agree that the glider and climbing is here to stay, and I agree that there will need to be some korok-like micro-puzzles scattered throughout the world as well as some sort of shrine-like mini-puzzles (even if the execution is very different). But I think everything beyond that is subject to change.

[@WhyUHaf2BeMad]

i just hope the next zelda isnt another open world game .. tbh all i want is OG majoras mask remake/remastered for the switch. couldnt care about any other game

[@inspectorvoid]

I’ve just found you videos, some light background music would help imo, it’s too quiet lol 😂

[@tylerherr4288]

i like how most of the games he has worked on has some horrific grinding element to it oracles? rings minish cap? kinstones and figurines phantom hourglass? ship parts, treasures, skyward sword? treasures for upgrades botw and totk? pretty obvious how grindy these games are

[@braydenleaderofthetirkins1143]

But Fujibayashi also retconned the LAST game he made! Clearly incompetent when it comes to directing story. Not to mention all the new ruins & sky islands are empty & have no lore behind them, making most of them a waste of space.

[@ghoulishgoober3122]

Like, making skyward sword link a zonai? They retconned the race of the hero but they still included the first hero, or "ancient hero". These two games don't even have a proper place in the timeline just "at the end". It seems to take place in a new timeline entirely, and even if it takes place in the same timeline we've already seen a weird reconstruction of hyrule with windwaker. Until we get any confirmation of when this game takes place I think there are plenty of other just as plausible reasons for this new story, given what we've already seen in the timelines.

[@jmccartt7]

I enjoyed this video and I hope you find more success on KZbin and a bigger community! I can tell how much time you put into this video!

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you!

[@badryagami6809]

The problem with TOTK that all the puzzles are unscripted and solves with physics and that makes them less innovative and memorable

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

At least it doesn't have that one puzzle that "you could be able to solve this way" but the game won't allow you. Everything that should work, works.

[@badryagami6809]

Agreed. But they should find a balance, btwn the old and new formula in terms of puzzles solving and the dungeons, because the majority of fans still prefer old traditional dungeons formula also the weapons couldn't remember any powerful or valuable weapon from TOTK and BOTW but I do remember lot of weapons from Ocarina of time and Twilight Princess @@aaaaaaaaaa190

[@badryagami6809]

@@aaaaaaaaaa190 Couldn't agreed more. They must find a balance btwn the old and new formula in terms of puzzles solving and dungeons, even tho the majority of fans still prefer old traditional dungeons formula, also I couldn't remember any powerful or valuable weapon from TOTK and BOTW, but I remember lot of them in Ocarina of time and Twilight Princess

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

@@badryagami6809 While I don't find the new dungeon style of dungeons to be perfect and think there are some older ones that make a better job, I don't believe it is the opinion of most of the fanbase. It may be what most people say on Internet, but compared to how many people played Breath of the Wild, few people really actively express their opinion on the game, unless it is about something that bothered them. Also, I don't prefer any "traditional formula" because this term is too vague. Zelda I had an unique dungeon format, different from Zelda II, which is different to the subsequent 2d titles. 3d dungeons are also not the same as the 2d ones, for obvious resons, even though there are similarities. As for the weapons, I remember most weapons from most games, but I guess you are refering to legendary or special items, which the latest games didn’t have much.

[@ders3604]

Ahahaaaah

[@ders3604]

The answer to just about every question you purpose is no

[@r.g.8339]

Sales number argument is badly use. First of all I like BOTW and TOTK but they lack the Zelda identity. Let me debunk your argument about sales. The Switch is the #No1. Best selling console ever, 139Mill units. BOTW sold 31.61Mill units. That gives us a percentage of consoles/game= 23% And TOTK = 15%. N64 sold = 32.93Mill. OOT sold 7.6Mill. That gives a Console/Game sale% = 23% MM= 10% This only counting N64 copies sales. Im not counting the total sales till today. OOT=14Mill MM= 6.82Mill So you see, thats how you compare sales not by only the gross number, you have to put context right. Know about beign nostalgic, probably, but let me tell you, if the statistic dont lie, there is a downturn with this BOTW/TOTK style. Is not about doing it like OOT or MM, is about putting character and identity to the Zelda games. Let me put it very simple. What are the elements that define Zelda. -Dungeons -Key Items -Exploring -Puzzles -Story -Music And lets add if you want gameplay mechanics and open exploration one elements that BOTW and TOTK really nailed it.. *Elements that give the character and identity that neither BOTW or TOTK really had, they have other good stuff but at the end the exploration felt repetitive and pointless, we could stick to the main regions fenomena and dont miss anything cause the rewards at the end felt pointless and repettitive.

[@nintendoforecast]

Game/Console sales % is an interesting metric although how do you account for the number of households who own multiple Switches due to its handheld form but may not own multiple home consoles? Also it's hard to estimate the numbers brought to the system in the first place by BotW - when the Wii expanded its reach, the attach rate for TP dropped like a stone. BotW created its context for Switch - it's hard to imagine that launch year especially having anything like the same enthusiasm at launch (at once point the attach rate for BotW was north of 100%!).

[@r.g.8339]

@@nintendoforecast I was just making the case, how it should be the fairest way to compare sales of games between generations consoles. People tend to forget the whole picture when analyzing. So the oercentage of sales of OOT make it more impressive if it was sold on only a home console per household; instead of the switch we can imply that parents often bought more than one copy of BOTW; this add to the case that OOT show a more realisitc buyer intention. If we ought to factor the sales in BOTW on the WII U. Then it would be fair to factor the other 7 millones plus copies OOT sold over other consoles. Being an older game is crazy to think that it his sales number increase by 50% from post gen consoles. I believe OOT its the best selling Zelda ever; fans havent bought more copies of OOT in the Switch cause its included in N64 online. If Nintendo tomorrow anounce a OOT remastered or HD or the Master Quest. It would sell like many many millions more. Nintendo has to sit down and rethink what made Zelda so great and timeless.

[@itzriotplayz2377]

Great new video!

[@mrwho995]

Apologies for the double comment but I'm curious, what do you think about the weapon durability system? Do you think that's part of the formula here to stay? I'm in two minds about it. On the one hand it feels so integral to the design philosophy that Fujibayashi might not want to drop it, but on the other hand it's probably one of the most controversial elements of Breath/Tears so Nintendo may be sensitive to that and want to try something different.

[@princekamoro3869]

The mechanic was a chore for me to constantly think about. If durability does make a return, I'd at least like some kit of permanent weapons that trade power for not having to think about durability or inventory managment. (Not just Ipad powers, straight up weapons). The more off-putting a mechanic may be, the more it needs to be optional. And that goes double in a game which is supposed to be about playing how you want.

[@GameTimeNLL]

What people forget or dont see, is that the weapon durability makes you think creatively about your approaches. Which is pretty much the whole point of botw and totk.

[@nintendoforecast]

Very interesting question and I agree. This did feel part of the "of the wild" aesthetic and did attract some criticism. But they'll want the variety/accessibility of weapons without complex inventory management or forcing players to throw weapons away. Also Aonuma has said that they wanted to make combat more tactical without making it more complex. I guess they'd only change if they were happy with an alternative way to achieve these ends (e.g. being able to sell/upgrade/collect weapons but these might feel a bit RPGish). Since it's easier not to change something than to change, I guess I'd put the likelihood at 70% the durability system comes back to at least some (perhaps smaller) degree.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

@@nintendoforecast If they do bring it back for some reason, allow the next link the ability to punch people. Also, bring back the level of shield angling you could so it OOT and MM. The canon zonite weapon really make we miss we had it. Also a neat thing since their are a bit of sneaking shrines in TOTK would to give link the ability to lay prone on the ground and crawl.

[@ultimatedumbass4640]

​@@GameTimeNLL I get your point but the beauty and satisfaction of playing with my favourite weapons as much as I want to is just much more valuable and appealing to me. Many games retain this yet still have creative and varied combat (I know it's not the same thing as what you meant but I just think it would've been a better approach).

[@napoleonfeanor]

I think the motion fighting in Skyward Sword was fun. I hope the next one will be a bit different again. I want real dungeons again. Not a huge fan of BotW, TotK was clearly better and I enjoyed it much more but I still want some classic things again. Weapons break too fast, at least without glitches haha. Another possibility would be to split the series like with Mario and Metroid. I'd certainly enjoy another game in the Link's Awakening remake style. I think it is clear that Fujibayashi is becoming Eiji Aonuma's successor. Nintendo seems to be great in actually passing the torch to a new generation unlike most game developers, which lose quality a lot over time when OGs leave. Oh, there is also the Link between Worlds idea of having a freer order of dungeons.

[@_sparrowhawk]

I got through SS on the Switch and I’ll never touch it again because of the motion controls - it just wasn’t fun. I played with the new controls and didn’t enjoy combat.

[@nintendoforecast]

I kinda agree - motion controls can only work in addition to regular controls and they have a long way to go. Even on Switch, the SS motion controls irritated more than inspired. That said, I'm sure eventually they'll be reintegrated as technology improves as it's something Nintendo feel passionate about... but given the pace of Zelda releases, this could be decades!

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

I'd say the dungeons don't need to be "traditional" (idk what does this even mean) but way more complex and unique, with different structures. The weapon durability makes a lot of sense in BotW, since killing enemies is the main way to obtain stronger weapons and if they lasted too long, players would have no reason to kill monsters and their inventory would be always full (which is already a problem). In Tears of the Kingdom weapons are weaker but with fuse they last almost twice as long, except for the Master Sword which is basically a final boss weapon.

[@-Titania]

Links gotta fight aliens soon right?

[@ghoulishgoober3122]

He has fought aliens in Majora's Mask already, but yes he must bring the fight to their mothership

[@mattwebb9020]

Too me the next step and path to a perfect game is so, so clear for Zelda. I’m going to start making videos I suppose. I could go on but my hope is that almost everything has been hardware based

[@mattwebb9020]

Which played into the dystopian sparsely populated BOTW, but I’d argue didn’t benefit TOTK

[@nintendoforecast]

More characters?

[@mattwebb9020]

@@nintendoforecast for one, yes. I also think a strict commitment to 4 hour dungeons would make the gaming world turn on its head. It’s not remotely impossible it’s a department dedicated to the dungeons and that’s it. I have to fully admit I’m at my “sour” stage with TOTK. Put 455 hours in, several times during the first play-through I could be heard saying “wow this game” and even in tears in the ending. But after that fades there are some flaws. That can be fixed I think.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

​@@mattwebb9020 I don't get it. What would be the path? And would it it really result into a perfect game? Because that would be really revolutionary, since no perfect game was ever made.

[@mattwebb9020]

⁠@@aaaaaaaaaa190 Forgive my phrasing, perfection is a silly word. What I’m talking about is something that both grips your soul AND has substance. I’d argue TOTK lacked much on the substance. The depths and sky are easy examples with the Great Sky Island/Thunderhead Isles and Master Khoga/Mineru construction not being enough by a long shot. I’m not sure how to put it but maybe like this, combine the best of BOTW/TOTK/Eldin Ring/RDR2/the new God of Wars/ and oh I dn let’s pick Twilight Princess dungeons. Whatever that is what we need and what gaming needs. Now again I truly think the reason we didn’t get all of that is hardware limitation. Which was also their own choice.

[@masterbrawler1298]

So glad you’ve got a new video out! I love your content and the topics you cover. I’m an aspiring game dev and looking into the history, specifics and general decisions of dev teams and directors like this is something I love discussing. I hope to see more from you!

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you so much - and good luck on your path to becoming a game dev!

[@da_big_chungus]

can we have a sword that doesnt break? 😂

[@Leftiescrewdriver30]

Yesss or Leave the Master Sword or whichever legendary blade as an end game without durability. A permanent sword for once.

[@ATalkingSock]

The king has returned! Great video :)

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you! :)

[@damianlord7954]

I can see why people want "old school" dungeon style games, and why others want an open world non-linear game, I wouldn't mind either but what I don't want is the horrible backtracking that the "old school" games had. There was nothing worse than having to work through a dungeon to find a key or whatever, then backtrack all the way back through the same rooms to open a door. For me that's tedious. So, if they do go back, or just add proper dungeons, just please no backtracking! The temples might not have been amazing in TotK but I really appreciate that you didn't have to go back to the start to open a lock, it opened where you were and you could then just carry on with the temple from your current location.

[@johnwebb4499]

I need more Zelda. Take my money !!! !!! Make Me Zeldaaaaaaaaa

[@prirush8800]

Everything is perfect, but they need dungeons back, thats what i thought we would get in the SKY N CHASM, THE DESERT SAGE WAS a bit refreshing. The underworld lava world, was fun.

[@mrHowlll]

I wish the Zelda series eventually goes back to the OoT formula. BotW felt like too much of a departure in gameplay and narrative. After not enjoying BotW I skipped buying TotK.

[@goten2831]

Zelda BOTW & TOTK are the best video games I've ever played in my 23 year long life. I look forward and hope for more inspiring, wholesome and all around magnificently peaceful entertaining video games to come from the beautiful souls who created these wonderful games. I love you all. Thank you for the experience

[@kevinc8597]

I had my fill with BotW and TotK was the first Zelda I felt no impetus to purchase. If this is a new formula then I am so stuffed and full from the original meal; I'll probably wait until the new-new formula to get back into the IP. TotK I still got to play quite a few hours of and all it did for me despite technical accomplishment was retroactively impose the impression BotW was the same chore-like bore of any Ubisoft or new age Rockstar game. I basically consider the IP retired for me. Though these sell massive freaking amounts so the accomplishment in the market cannot be downplayed. Let the man cook.

[@mattsingleton4215]

I feel like the new Zelda formula is basically to give us some new game mechanics that heavily influence how we interact with the world; then give us a big open world to play with them in. It’s more about making our own story and having our own individual experiences. While I agree this is cool and goes with the spirit of exploration/adventure, I’d really like to see a return to full-fledged traditional Dungeons and a more story driven main line Quest. I personally hated the whole “discover the memories/tears at your own pace and then piece the story together” It makes you as a player feel disassociated from the story and not like you’re immersed in it, experiencing it in real time.