Futility of the Scapular Y Exercise for Shoulder Health

The scapular Y exercise has been a staple in shoulder rehab exercises forever. It's supposed to help reestablish proper movement and strength of the scapular muscles.
Unfortunately it doesn't work too well, and the main reason is that the foundation upon which the scapula sits is the most important part of shoulder health. None of the traditional shoulder rehab exercises address the position of the ribcage.
Position of the ribcage must come before any type of glenohumeral rehabilitation.
blog post mentioned in the video:
pritrainer.com/how-to-achieve...

[@quintessential5145]

Man, you are amazing. I have been internet searching my head off about these things for the past 10 years. I never read anything that refers to the concept you explained.

[@NealHallinan]

I spent so much time doing those exercises back in my "bad days" yet my neck spasms didn't stop. I suppose they could work on a neutral spine with properly directed airflow, but I haven't found that they've been needed for anyone.

[@quintessential5145]

@@NealHallinan Neal, to which question was this reply? :D I don't get it.

[@cynthiacook2978]

@@quintessential5145 He was referring to the old fashion Y exercises from the book in the beginning of the video.

[@seanc.5310]

This man is truly a life saver! I never realized all of my issues were related to my lack of of neutral hip and spine position

[@2fastnfurious4u]

hm then you probably missed Postural Restoration

[@bubblyfrog5]

Once again, your videos are on-point. I have been struggling with (what I now assume is) winged scapula on the right side on and off for the past 6 weeks. Through the PRI exercises I was given by my PT and by experimenting on my own, I had figured out how to get the scapula back in place once I could feel the pain coming on. However, I had no way to describe what was going on until I saw this video. Your videos have helped me through every stage of my PRI journey so far, and I'm extremely grateful.

[@NealHallinan]

Thanks, bubblyfrog5. I'm glad the videos have helped.

[@chrisferguson113]

I have wasted so much money on people who think they know something because they went to school.. if people understood this and recognized it ,we would eliminate chiropractors and alot of other jobs.. because there is a root cause of why you end up back where you are and this is it.. so glad I have come across this guy.

[@mikeg8373]

Can’t say enough about you Neal! You are the man!!!!

[@amyhoop9651]

You never disappoint! This is another piece to the puzzle that is helping me tremendously. Thank you for taking all of your time to help all of us.

[@efrengramajo]

You’re the best, man. Keep it up

[@brianjacobs5154]

I appreciate your information bro. Its been a blessing and a pleasure. You explain the human Anatomy very well.

[@GonzaloCorts]

Wow another amazing video thank you so much for sharing this information!!!!

[@ipolitukaslescinskis8833]

You-such a pro,thank you

[@dawngilbert4535]

Neil,you're the best.Thank you for making these videos. I wish the medical field would get onboard with this stuff. It would save so many from a life of misery.

[@NealHallinan]

Thank you Dawn. I agree with you, it would save many people from a life of misery, as it saved me. That's why I make the videos. Appreciate the comment.

[@joechaos13]

This explains a lot. I've been doing rotator cuff work, massaging, and stretching to recover from a shoulder injury. Those all helped but it wasn't until I started my new job where I use pulling carts with one arm as a pec stretch and doing triangle pose that my recovery accelerated. I knew it worked, but not why. It has to be the opening up of the ribs, breathing, and being in a twisted position. I've also paid more attention to how I naturally stand, alternating to the opposite stance for balance.

[@stvnjmz]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!! I've been dealing with this for the last 3-4 years and like many others have said the focus has been on the temporary solutions rather than the foundation of the problem. I just practiced this breathing and stance and within minutes felt a huge difference.

[@ataylor992]

Thanks a ton Neal. You are a life saver, making a lot of us feel like we are not alone. So 1) Get in left stance 2) Expand the ribcage- direct air into upper right lung 3) Right arm should be up and back (in left stance phase of gait position) 4) Train this position (right tricep and trap will be weak).

[@seanc.5310]

Ok, I have a question... Why is this amazing knowledge not known by most Trainers, PT's and even MD's? They seem to only want to treat the symptom, not look for the cause. The education and answers to my lack of results from other methods as well as relief of symptoms since discovering this is amazing!

[@NealHallinan]

Hi Sean. The science of asymmetry and it's impact on movement and breathing have never been addressed, until Ron Hruska starting noticing predictable patterns of compensatory breathing and movement. Out of that came PRI. Asymmetry is known and acknowledged, but no one ever thought holistically enough. All the credit goes to Ron for seeing something no one else has.

[@seanc.5310]

@@NealHallinan well I certainly appreciate Ron pioneering these techniques and you for sharing them with others suffering with these issues. It gives me a lot of hope to at least truly understand what is wrong and work towards correcting it

[@ataylor992]

@@seanc.5310 I hope your PRI journey and physical rehabilitation are going well. It takes time, but as Neal says- it just keeps getting better.

[@austinwilde1167]

This video also ties nicely into my overly tight right pec minor and subclavious. My right shoulder chronically dips. This helps me understand the issue. Where do I go from here and in what order. Thank you so much again for your time and help!

[@marijanmedunic4299]

There shoud be link to this video from any video about y,w and t shoulder exercise. You make it so simple, thank you for your effort Keep going....

[@NealHallinan]

Thanks, Marijan. Hope you are well.

[@sebastienortic]

That's so true. I have been through Y exercise for a while and all I got is sore uppertraps, which makes the problem worse as they are shoulders internally rotators...

[@NealHallinan]

That is the common experience.

[@generatingideas]

I love the ones where you say "the futility of..."

[@NealHallinan]

Lol, it may sound dramatic... but they are definitely futile in many respects.

[@bilalmalik7885]

So soo interesting. My left rib pops, all my issues exist on the left side. Left shoulder, left scap wings, left hip, left upper trap and lev scap. Seems like I need to work on that pelvis and ribcage. Open up that already compressed right side. Def going to be in touch soon, would live to work with you.

[@TheSchnarfSchnarf]

My god! I'm going to college soon and I'm going in for physical therapy things. I know they won't really teach me the correct things that actually work, but ima do college, PRI and functional patterns. Hopefully with all these techniques all muscio-skeletal issues can be solved!!!

[@ashleytaylor994]

seems like PT school is outdated.

[@kimsmith1488]

Can you show right lower trap and right triceps exercise to do once in correct position ?

[@888tfff]

How do I get in touch with you for the online consultation? Also, do you reccomend myofascia release in conjunction with exercise?

[@manus1522]

Actually there is a lot of good evidence for the movement systems paradigm. Just goes to show that very different approaches can have similar results on pain/function.

[@andrewrae8064]

Been doing the four basic PRI exercises everyday and then going for a 10 minute walk for about 2 weeks now. When my body wants to, walking feels a lot less awkward and imbalanced. Right shoulder still seems to be a sticking point with me. Pec minor keeps getting tight and is very knotted. Right shoulder feels like it can't extend during walking cycle. Right biceps also seem to get tight all the way into my armpit. Seems to be some sort of symptom of right BC. Hopefully air getting into my right ribs will eventually fix this.

[@NealHallinan]

The four basic techniques are great techniques, but they are ground based. Eventually you have to progress to upright techniques. Floor based techniques have less gravity involvement, so that's why people start on the ground. But we walk standing up.

[@teapacaric4163]

Thank you very much for your videos. This is useful! How many corrective reps must be done in a day?

[@NealHallinan]

Corrective reps of what exercise?

[@teapacaric4163]

@@NealHallinan eg. left ribs down and breathing or eg for left hip.

[@quintessential5145]

Is there a visual cue to knowing when we have successfully expanded our right rib cage?

[@NealHallinan]

Not necessarily. That's why we rely on testing. Shoulder and neck tests will change.

[@TheKoKsOnePL]

I have left AIC, but it is my left shoulder that drops forward. I don’t have a problem with my right shoulder, even though my ribs are twisted to the right.

[@kcmman9323]

I have similar. I have found that my left shoulder is dropped when passive but when i do a 1 rep max or play drums, when my muscles are active, its clear that my right shoulder drops (only when active)

[@vaibhavpatil-mj5zj]

Hi neal i feel my left scapula move upward from spine side and there is continues pain tightness at same upward spot .my most of exercise time goes for the fixing that scapula and that pain. should I do the same exercise you explain here or if any other pls.suggest me

[@khachaturdavtyan5144]

Mister Hallinan can you speak on your next videos about left lower trap, left serratus anterior and rigt lower trap and right serratus anterior. Because I think I have a Restriction in this areas what is preventing me to activate my left Zoa. I'll be very thankful, if you do it.

[@NealHallinan]

Khachatur, those muscles won't restrict you from getting a left ZOA. They could prevent your from keeping a left ZOA however. The inability to get a ZOA is usually coming from muscles that can't "let go". QL, paravertebrals, triangularus sterni or the neck.

[@khachaturdavtyan5144]

@@NealHallinan thank you for answer, in zoa exercise i feel left abs, but when i stand up and look my ribs in left they're still in flared position

[@alenmenendez6717]

@@khachaturdavtyan5144 same here did u fixed it

[@SketchedbySte]

Does the pelvis need to be fully neutral and fixed before you start correcting the rib cage? I assume just standing with the weight on your left side and allowing the ribs to open with air on the right whilst flexing the lower trapezius and triceps muscle wouldn't help ?

[@NealHallinan]

They can be addressed at the same time because of the muscular connections that join them together, mainly the left abs and the respiratory function of the left diaphragm. What you describe could easily reposition both structures to neutral if done correctly.

[@SketchedbySte]

@@NealHallinan Thanks. Can this be done whilst seated too? and if so is it just a case of having the weight more on the left SITS bone? That's something I was always taught to do from PRI physios, but I find when I shift the weight to the left ( when seated) I end up raising my pelvis on the right and closing up the right side / opening the left unintentionally as a knock on effect, which I know is the complete opposite of what we want, I am hoping that makes sense

[@lw7654]

Hi Neal, I do have right scapular winging, some left too but not as bad as the right. No pain at all on the right. My right scap/shoulder is lower than the left and right is my dominant side. I thought I was understanding what you were saying from another video, but just wanted to ask, all my pain scap/shoulder/neck is left sided, so would it still be my right side that is the problematic side causing all my issues on the left? My left side is much weaker, I use my right arm/shoulder 95%of the time. My back ribs, both sides feel so tight at times, it’s constricting. Actually, at times, it refers pressure on my left to my front chest making me think I am having heart issues. I got so concerned, went to a cardiologist and had a complete work up and everything there is normal. I am thankful for your videos and it’s helping me to possibly understand what the heck is happening to my body and why nothing I did was working. Anyways, just was wondering again if it is normal to not have any pain on my right but all on my left with the pattern you mentioned. Thank you again for all your wonderful information!

[@NealHallinan]

Yes, it's normal. The left side is getting stressed out because of the constant "pull" coming from the dominant right side. You'll need help from a professional PRI provider.

[@josephwilliam4039]

i try breathing in thru nose but i cant get as deep of a breath as i can by breathing in through my mouth. i will keep working on it to improve, but what is the actual reason for nose in breathing? love your vids. gift from god

[@MagikarpPower]

I also have this issue.

[@ahmadkhawaja7853]

Which exercises we can do to fix it?

[@2fastnfurious4u]

and what about depressed sternum? how would you bring it up

[@ashleytaylor994]

Do you ever see left winged scapula because of left AIC? My left shoulder is higher and my levator scap and traps and scm are tight on my left side. My left clavicle protrudes forward and I have pain under the clavicle.

[@Noone-ew2wk]

This is the only area of pri that i dont really see in my own body. My right side is nice and compact and my left is really unstable and winging. Can you make a video on what happens to the left shoulder? An elevated shoulder would make it unstable too right?

[@NealHallinan]

Jarret, this is just the most common scenario. Winging can occur on the left, too. There are lots of possibilities due to the influence of cranium/neck patterns and the associated musculature.

[@purifierphoenixthemecca]

Left side feels like it winged with left lateral pelvic. My right shoulder is rounded with my body slightly twisted to the right. Do I do the same thing with right side expansion?

[@karlfischer466]

I see a few comments regarding the left side winging too. I've definitely got winging on both sides, but far more on the left side leading to a more unstable left arm/shoulder. Could that still be due to the underlying right BC pattern, or is there something else potentially affecting the left side?

[@NealHallinan]

Yes, there is still an underlying right BC. However it probably means that someone has an extra layering of patterning. Bi-lateral BC for example.

[@ashleytaylor994]

my left side is winged too and my left biceps gets fatigued quicker. I think because left arm is in externally rotated position and it is smoking the biceps tendon.

[@hadi257]

9:52 so that's what R side apical expansion for right? To open it up?

[@NealHallinan]

Yes.

[@DogrusoezS]

would single arm lever holds, like b-boys do help with expanding the ribcage?

[@NealHallinan]

I don't know what that is.

[@DogrusoezS]

@@NealHallinan here is a tutorial kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpezkmypiLFoack please tell me if i`m wrong, but it translates to all that what you are talking about in all your uploads.

[@munyadenhere6445]

Hi Neal can you explain whether left handedness in the left AIC is just compensation and whether the dominant hand should be the right hand. I’m a bit confused about which arm I should be using

[@NealHallinan]

Handedness is not part of the left AIC right BC pattern. Most people are right handed, but it really doesn't matter. Use whatever hand comes naturally.

[@munyadenhere6445]

@@NealHallinan thank you.

[@fsfs2778]

My r scap is alot closer than my left to the spine. Do i just invert everything u mentioned to apply it to my case? But the right side is the side with the dysfunction/pain/down and forward

[@Yojax]

Hey Neal, I've been browsing your videos on and off all day. I would really appreciate your response. I've learnt a lot, but I there's one thing I really don't understand: in all of your videos you say about how the breathing techniques help return the scapula to their normal position. But I don't understand how this can have any chronic, long lasting effect? I can easily imagine how the scapula position may be restored WHILE your lung is properly inflated, but what is stopping it from returning to its normal winged position the minute you release the air from your lungs?

[@NealHallinan]

As long as your left hip is stable, and you can breathe with your left diaphragm, air will keep the right ribcage open. The problem is that the right side never opens. Once it opens, it will close again, and then open again, then close again........That's what we need. Alternating activity.

[@Yojax]

@@NealHallinan I understand that during the exercises you outline that we force the right side to "open up". But then what is stopping it from closing again the minute we we finish the exercise and go about our normal day-to-day life?

[@ataylor992]

​@@Yojax It's a loaded answer, but- repetition. You're basically changing your muscle memory, if you understand all the PRI principals fully and apply them regularly over time neuroplasticity takes place and these new positions will slowly start to stick.

[@FunSoulWhisperer]

🎶🥰🙏TY Neil, Is there someplace we can see a series of PRI lifting workout videos?? I have used the ones with Mr. Biomechanics 🤓 yet I’m at the start of my PRI journey so I’m thinking it’ll be best to utilize his services after I’m fully neutral 🙃 also, I want to email you for some other help with my complex case, if you’re available for this..?? 🥰🤓🙃🤗💝🙏❤️✨🎶

[@Jonas_Fox]

What do you do if everything you've mentioned was on the opposite side? It's my left side that's winging. Does just swapping sidedness work? I've watched your videos for a while now. Thank you for your insights.

[@NealHallinan]

When you say "swapping sidedness", what do you mean by that exactly? Do you mean reversing exercises? The left scapula can wing just like a right scapula, it's just not the norm. The left scap's normal state, in a "perfect" right BC pattern, would be more externally rotated (a winged scapula is considered internally rotated). If a left scapula is winged, it could be a tight left pec/pec minor muscle pulling it forward into internal rotation. I'm relatively sure I'm describing the situation accurately.

[@Jonas_Fox]

@@NealHallinan I think you have me correct. I have an internal rotation of my left shoulder, my left scapula is slightly winged and away from the spine, and that left arm/shoulder is unstable. I'm wondering if taking your advice and mirroring the handedness would work or if it's not that simple. For example, following your above advice but flipped to something like "I need to be able to stand on my right leg, bring my left arm back and right arm forward and breath in that position." I appreciate all the insights. I've followed many of your videos and I've been consistently seeing this mirror for myself. Everything you describe, I'm experiencing on the opposite side of what you say lol. Apparently I'm a mess. I used to to a lot of barbell work.

[@lw7654]

J.A. Renau I’am the same as you. Is your pain also left sided? I have left forward shoulder and instability.

[@alenmenendez6717]

@@lw7654 i have the same

[@dawnlawrence2427]

After seeing a chiro osteo physio desperately wanting to fix my injury AT LAST YOU HAVE ONCE AGAIN MADE PERFECT SENSE OF MY INJURY THANKYOU NEAL

[@Stoffendous]

Neal next to all the muscles you mentioned being tight i also notice a lot of tightness and spasming in both my biceps and triceps. If I squeeze those muscles it hurts, and when i hold the squeeze they eventually start to shake a bit and release. Next day its back to start, however. Do you recognize this?

[@Anthony-xc4yt]

Gday Neil, what are your thoughts on both scapula winged?

[@NealHallinan]

It could indicate a PEC pattern or neck involvement.

[@Anthony-xc4yt]

@@NealHallinan mate thanks so much for getting back to me!(to everyone). Pec minor and scalenes have been my targets the last year,but no luck stretching and massaging. Is that what you meant by pec and neck?also had MRIs,EMG and $$$$ of physio,osteo. Do you have any videos related to this? Thanks Neal!!! Where is your Pactice located?

[@feresben8338]

Good content and philosophy but can you provide evidence comparing the two approaches you mentioned? A case study how the rib cage adjustment solves shoulder or scapula syndromes? Because shirley sahrman made lot of research about her work and she presents evidence.

[@donatasverikas7632]

In this video you say that you need to expand the RIGHT ribs with air but in your 'left ZOA' technique tutorial and your website you say that we need to aim to fill the LEFT mid back with air. Is this just a cue? Im confused

[@NealHallinan]

You need to expand both the right lateral chest wall/ribcage and left posterior ribs.

[@nickkonstantakopoulos2350]

what if the left side is winging?

[@NealHallinan]

That can happen. You still have to reposition the pelvis and ribcage and then do something like the "all-fours left ZOA" exercise.

[@nickkonstantakopoulos2350]

@@NealHallinan THANK YOU NEIL INTERESTING CAUSE I FEEL LIKE ALL THE PRI TALKS ABOUT IS RIGHT SIDE NEVER THE LEFT CASUING DYSFIUNCTION

[@limitisillusion7]

Do you think this pattern occurs due to most people being right handed? That would be my assumption. I played a lot of baseball and it has definitely led to a lot of imbalances.

[@CourticalHoops]

🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@jasonn_lifts]

My left scapula recently started winging when I move arm back. Why? My breathing is good too

[@rbizzle18]

obviously the book is problematic, it's written by a woman. thanks for the video, Neal!