Futuristic Artillery Meets Cloth Armor | Chaos Dwarfs vs Wood Elves - Total War Warhammer 3

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[@toxicfireball2690]

I had no idea I was gonna win on one point till the end of the game, it seems math fails me in these situations. I was actually confused when I won, cause I wasnt keeping track of point in the last minutes. Anyway thanks to Turin for casting this game and ggwp to grombrindal!

[@OffshoreITguy]

Great game, this was an awesome one to watch. I had faith in you.

[@dome2919]

14:20 Hearing "Wood Elves" and "Better sustained grind" in the same sentence is **WILD** knowing where they've come from. Also it's always a treat to see Zoats.

[@ironhandcreative5603]

I'm glad that both Turin and I audibly yelled OH MY GOD at that deathshriek shot on the wardancers around 19 minutes

[@absolutelyfookinnobody2843]

Kinda like the scene from Hangover where the dentist guy was gettin his boots knocked in Bangkok

[@TheLevelBaronHimself]

"My poor Empire mortars just crying in the corner" had me laughing out loud! XD

[@roccorumiano5031]

8:28 the magma cannon friendly fire on the prophet had me geekin😭😭

[@Allpiety]

What a hilariously unfortunate FF shot 🤣

[@Erebus2075]

lolz yer i think they will discuss whether that was on purpose after the fight :P traitorous crew xD

[@WolfHead94]

yeah the deathshriek anti-inf shot was maybe over-buffed. They're basically shooting like the death globe mortar ror for 300 less cost and a great anti-large shot added on for the dlc goodness XD

[@Kralfilable]

Imo it was fine before bugs. Mid anti inf piece but great anti large, now its good at everything which is just stupid

[@florians9949]

Magma canon are better at clearing infantry. Death shrieker rocket proced to nearly oneshot a unit of wardancers.

[@Erebus2075]

tested 2 dwarf cannon literally two shot a deathshrieker rocket at max distance. if you are letting a deathskrieker hammer you all game you are not doing what you should to shut it down ^^ they are very easy to kill with armour piecing specialist, especially anty arti/constructions/monsters, such as cannons bone giants etc ^^ I imagine hawk riders might be effective at shutting it down and could reasonably dodge its shots

[@toxicfireball2690]

@@Erebus2075 Hawk RIders are terrible at trying to do that, if Chorf has blunderbluss or hobogoblin archers they will get deleted instantly. They dont have AP missiles so they take a long while to actually do damage

[@matthieugeorgelin5671]

Point is they're even deadlier but the anti infantery ammo is really unaccurate and if the fights are a little too mobile you quickly end with lots of misses and some friendly fire. They're good against inf in combat but as soon as something moves the travel speed of the missiles starts to play a major role.

[@toxicfireball2690]

@@matthieugeorgelin5671 My issue with them is they are a anti-everything arty. That will smash SEMs easily and even if they miss 60% of their Anti in shots, 40% is easily enough to make its value back provided you are not shooting garbage.

[@matthieugeorgelin5671]

@@toxicfireball2690 They're versatile sure, but they're def not broken, like making them cost 50 more would make sense, but I think they're "easy" to outplay because of the way their missile spread before hitting the ground, it is very rare that you find occasion to hit this perfectly, like on the wardancers here where it's the exact angle where they can be super effective. Also, every faction is balanced arround some slightly overtuned units, and Deathshrieks are definitely not "too much", they're just one of the good unit of the CD roaster.

[@u-mos8820]

This is just amazing. That's it, I'm getting into the pvp. This shits too cool not to.

[@turinRTS]

Come join us in discord! discord.gg/D6AvCrCJ - better than ladder...cheers!

[@grombrindal6247]

grombrindal has many names because he is the best agent of grungni he has to hide

[@kylemorin3945]

Holy cow! What a tense game! Even in just the last few seconds, I didn't know who was going to take it.

[@patrickwest7048]

12:24 that death shrieker shot… Dwarves were sleeping on that 1

[@revolverclassic8248]

that artillery deleting units is why I just dodge Chorfs on ladder. Also cause of train spam, but the artillery really makes it an unfun fight

[@planomathandscience]

yeah, when you see a unit and think: that unit is costing me the game, then that unit is too much,

[@arc4830]

I once played against Chorfs... And now I dodge haha, although I rarely see them, I assume because no one plays them because everyone just dodges

[@dome2919]

It was pretty evident in watching this game. I imagine the Chorf opponent ending this game with peak stress. Granted WEs hate artillery on the best of days, but I think that some of those rocket shots must've made the resign button look super seductive.

[@Terrorspawn10]

Love Wood Elves the most. They got in my opinion the best play style in Immortal Empires

[@Vesarret]

wood elf almost threw cause i don't think they realized they won on one objective lol

[@toxicfireball2690]

That is true actually, I thought I needed 2 to win and was sweating for the last 3 minutes of the game. Didnt even realise until i won XD

[@Ahmadabdal_]

grombrindal when he hits that zaza pack

[@LancerKnight00]

what a scrap, but the Wood Elves just barely managed a win. I do love seeing the infantry rush builds of Wood Elves

[@Ebb0Productions]

one of my new favorite match-ups!

[@jbest5590]

Took me far too long to realise grombrindal is the players name and not some weird cross over

[@suitorshooter996]

Does the magma cannon leave behind a little damaging aoe when it hits? Looked like surviving models were immediately filling the gap in their ranks, standing in the flames and dieing, enhancing that damage a little bit.

[@DaciaJC]

That's exactly right, the shells leave an AoE for about 5-6 seconds that causes additional damage.

[@dome2919]

Yep, in fact that leftover damage can get crazy results vs. hordes. A lot of the time it's the majority of the shot's value

[@liamcullen3035]

This was an incredible battle! Props for taking Drycha, an angry tree who’s weak to fire! I like that the chorf artillery is scary, but it does seem disproportionately difficult to shut them down. ToxicFireball tried at the start, but failed and just had to wear it for the rest of the match it seemed. Pretty brutal. How would you stop the chorf artillery from using all its ammo in this matchup? We’ve seen what damage they can do, surely it’s worthwhile stopping them, if it’s possible.

[@toxicfireball2690]

For WE the best way is to use waystalkers to try and shut it down, but you need 2 for that(I only brought one and it spend the whole game being zoned out by the socerer prophet). Either that you can crush their frontline and try and catch the Chorf arty with cav. They die very fast if you catch them with great stags or zoats though getting there means you have won the mobility game completely.

[@liamcullen3035]

@@toxicfireball2690 Hey, thanks for your reply! That makes sense! Also, really well played to both of you!

[@arc4830]

Just realised why I rarely see Chorf on ladder, hard to play them as as soon as anyone see's Chorf, it's a dodge.

[@BountyFlamor]

Finally Turin uploads in higher resolution.

[@lenkalenech3102]

Magma cannon are great on the approach and against ranged, deathshrieke are great against static units bogged down in melee

[@sclarke6969]

incredible game

[@dearberlin]

Death Shrieker does too much damage vs. infantry units, its damage should be looked at again.

[@sassyviking6003]

Strongly disagree. It is very strong against infantry with the spread shot but it is also highly inaccurate. It feels like it is in a good spot. Not the most efficient vs infantry but providing some flexibility/utility given it is their primary anti large artillery.

[@revolverclassic8248]

@@sassyviking6003 I don't know if accuracy/inaccuracy is a good metric to balance things in a game like this. It creates a very wide set of data for its effectiveness and is negative for player experience. I'd rather artillery be more accurate and do low damage than have a 25% chance of destroying half a unit.

[@Michaentus]

​@@revolverclassic8248tell that to the empire

[@revolverclassic8248]

@@Michaentus my feelings extend to every artillery piece in the game

[@EyebrowsGaming]

@@revolverclassic8248 MAJOR disagree, that's just boring. I honestly want MORE crazy artillery behaviour - Hellcannons able to fight in melee and rampage or Skaven artillery and weapon teams able to misfire and explode like on the tabletop. MORE carnage, not less!

[@regulusm1518]

Great game 👏

[@bullronin1]

What a banger!

[@stillready6405]

I kinda wish the Elves had a little bit more ranges on their archers, anyone else?

[@N0ahface]

Hell no

[@thepiousskeleton6046]

Nope

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Not range but more accuracy. For elite units of cos - waystalker are literally the best of the best warhammer archers, so it's seems little bit weird that they are still to miss half of the shots on a flying giant cow, which stand still, from maximum range

[@StoofTocino]

Any tourneys incoming? Do these videos come from reviewing those games you don’t cast live and picking the interesting ones?

[@turinRTS]

Am under the weather atm, soon!

[@StoofTocino]

Oh shit, feel better my guy all good

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

What in the hell is that Deathshrieker doing one-shotting a whole unit?

[@sinuosalice-1434]

God's work, sending all those trees huggers to hell

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Perfect shot from ideal angle, zoning almost 90% of wardancers models at once with explosions. Plus elves as usual have low hp per model, plus in wh3 every explosion did not lose their damage from centre to rear, dealing all the damage at all explosion radius. If wardancers wouldn't have 20 physres, so they would be deleted even more. I think literally deleted, not crushed for 80% of hp. Empire mortars with perfect shots - hitting all the 4 shells in line of enemy unarmored troops deal about 50% hp of handgunners, for example. But 50% of hp on perfect shot and 80% - still looks weird enough to call it overturned. And yeah, deathshrieker antiinf shots are AP. So its overturned at all and need some explosion damage nerf.

[@Erebus2075]

ok finally got the chorfs so i could test. the skullcraker and especially the iron daemon; get hurt badly by any arty with high armour pen; stuff like bone giants. it takes like 13 shot to full kill a skullcraker and 7 shots to fully kill an iron daemon; if you can hit so the arrow explode on the ground on top of them it will do much more dmg. so downwards shooting angle ^^ dwarven cannons also absolutely wrack them. 1600=double cannon= 8 shots, and it takes around 16-20 shots to kill a tank... which is 3 salvos if you can get a hit angle and hard to dodge. etc trains are easy to kill if you just bring some tools for it.

[@Erebus2075]

tested again 2 dwarf cannon literally two shot a deathshrieker rocket at max distance. they kill a skullcracker around the time it gets close enough to attack, if no units to protect. iron daemon gets smashed even faster. organ gun is also not bad against the tanks, two organ gun will kill the tanks reasonable fast. if you are afraid that there might come too much infantry for double cannon. but there are many way to kill these pretty effectively.

[@toxicfireball2690]

Well not every faction has heavy long range artillery :D

[@jxj13]

Holy Smokes this was sweet!!!!

[@krzysztofratajski9218]

This is Rocket Launcher or pre nerf Cascade of Souls????

[@benportz2145]

At 8:30 the chaos dwarf lord eats a artillery shot.

[@jhr891]

love these casts. But it would be more exciting to watch if we didn't know who is going to win just from the color of the armies. Isn't there a way to scramble the green and red outlines?

[@Dusk237]

Green isn't the winner it's the person who sent the replay I think

[@jhr891]

@@Dusk237 correct, yet my statement remains the same. Apart from very small sample of games featured here (streams not included) usually with Turin himself are loss for team green. We usually take more pride in wins then losses.

[@JarmamStuff]

@@Dusk237 So its 99% the winner

[@ianspurrell4436]

Hey Turin Warhammer 3 is on sale this week (40% off). Question isn't "Should i buy it?" questions is do you feel the bugs are fixed or acceptable now? Faction balance can be ignored, I get that some are always strong or weak... I should add the AOE4 is the other strong contender for my 'new summer game'

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

It's ALWAYS been good, there were no major bugs people just love to cry

[@JarmamStuff]

@@jtowensbyiii6018 That is a flat out lie. The game was super buggy at first, and I still have entire units getting wiped out by simply standing near a Chorf gate. However, most of the worst parts of WH3 have been ironed out, minus the recent wave of changes and their corresponding bugs (Bretonnia knights being the worst offenders)

[@Teltates]

GG

[@Lethoras]

Uff Drycha took no damage from that charge. I thought they fixed the foot character monster interactions...

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Nha, they said they did but it is still like allways. Knock back happens before dmg and units flat on the ground or knocked are still untouchables

[@planomathandscience]

I get a woodie every time the Wood Elves win.

[@dome2919]

😎 hard hecking fought, but a W is a W. It's super surreal to me, seeing WE able to play cheap. Old WE would've had to throw wild riders or something else expensive into that arty, spend half their apms trying to dodge the lord sniping, and holding back tears as they watched their archers melt. The expansion and addition of GR spears has really helped with some of that, which I'm happy for.

[@stuntman083]

what's with all these maps that have no trees? Huge disadvantage to melee armies

[@vitaliyred622]

Chaos dwarves are still broken af, the train spam, or the deathshreaker deleting suads with 1 shot is insane.

[@easytanksgaming3238]

And that not totally broken item, that heals prophet lord every time enemy casting spell. That shit effectively gives him 50-75% additional hp on that lord. So why it didn't cost for about 800-1200 gold, huh?)

[@zacharysgro6145]

@1:06 ok, hear me out....

[@garyg.1979]

I really wish those endgame screens would say who won. Sometimes you want too watch the start and then skip to the end. Sorry, the internet has wrecked my attention span.

[@grombrindal6247]

the problem with artillery in this duel is that it can be easily killed this is one of the scandalous duels for dawi zharr haha

[@czarix1338]

Actually Grombrindal brought against me the train and it did nothing, because of WW destroying skullcracker 2 times, so I think the train is just bad in this MU

[@toxicfireball2690]

I only had one WW so I think trains would have been real nasty against me, I had actually planned to use Zoats to kill the trains but Im not sure how that would go, WW does seem more viable than it I suppose.

[@czarix1338]

@@toxicfireball2690 Zoats are doing really well against train with phys resist bound spell especially

[@Amonabus]

Not gunna lie, didnt realize dryca is rocking a thong til now.

[@dome2919]

...I can't unsee that now. Though it's pretty funny to imagine a "Ms. Warhammer" competition where Drycha is outcompeting witch elves.

[@Draconas]

Artillery this powerful just doesn't belong in domination mode. Even if you try to shut it down it's too easy for opponent to defend by summoning a unit to counter and artillery just keep free firing all game. Finally out of ammo? Just get full unsummon refund XD

[@JarmamStuff]

Artillery this powerful doesnt belong anywhere

[@Mandalore9999]

My hatred towards chaos dwarfs burns brighter by the hour Some of their units are such a powercreep BS it's not even funny

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Funny enough, but their OP units not that OP in all scenarios. For example great cannon type artillery wreck all of chorfs arty and trains. Dragon type flying monsters melt their airforces and pistol missiles costs too much against mobile enemy troops, so cavspam make them nearly useless But, but... Chorf playstyle and gamedesign works perfectly bad in that case, so chrof player must make less microcontrol to delete enemy forces (especially infantry) and his enemy should play like starcraft pro player to effectively counter that "rightclick Haha enemy dead" playstyle. It's just unfair for most of the players, which uses simple tactics and about 40-60 apm. Toxic playstyle from chorfs, that is the reason why everybody hate to play against them((

[@dibs2342]

Goooooooooood morning Vietnaaaaaaaaammmm

[@edwingibson7]

GG. wp all. XD

[@akantor0811]

Really dislike how broken chorfs rockets have always been the other races key units mainly do so poorly because CA are just bad at balance things like dread saurian missing most attacks and being a easy kill to some arrows feels sad it spends most of its time walking on the spot or sending a unit flying with 0 damage then trying to get to it again while doing next to nothing

[@Vahkitauti]

Forget the deathshrieker already, this battle was fair and epic!

[@dome2919]

Epic for sure, but can you imagine the "where did they go?" moment when your near-full health unit vanishes from the face of the old world? It was wild to see. Not calling for nerfs necessarily (WE will struggle against arty on the best of days, and Chorf's identity should make them the premier arty faction) but it was definitely wild to watch.

[@bigbloke2000]

calling a chaos dwart "Grombrindal" (the legendary White Dwarf special character of the Dwarf faction) is sure to make some nerds' ears bleed...

[@saltmedicaldoctor2771]

That’s the players name that they usually used to go by

[@magikarpslapper759]

Why does he keep sayin that shit about Grombrindal? I don't see Grombrindal???

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Name of the chaos dwarf player

[@krawgs]

ugghh.. he keeps saying calvary..

[@WolfPrecision123]

CD are kinda not good without the artillery though, deathshriekrs aoe form misses most of it's shots it's kinda insane, wish they nerfed the dmg and made it actually hit more consistently so it's not so rng, some games it will barely pay for itself after it's ignored all game, other games it'll get 3k value. I had one game where it got 600 value after all shots, you see even in this game how it just wildly misses sometimes, like it's targeting single models not in the center mass. CD also have huge los issues on their powder weapons, since they're so short they often don't shoot, even goblin labourers will block los, overall a faction that i've had very little issues beating with high elves, cathay, empire etc. They have lots of issues if you manage to tarpit their elite infantry.