Episode 7 - A Stick of Time | FX's Shōgun: The Official Podcast

[@FXNetworks]

The music of Shōgun doesn't just enhance the show - it adds an essential layer to it.

[@lyrilljackson]

good of you to finally bring it up. i heard almost no such thing as a score. justin dialed it wayy too low. britell and ramin are still top tier even tho they got more laud than they deserve regardless. but small moves and cat steps for everyone , eyy? - Lyrill, Lord of Showbiz.

[@crucifire9224]

Atticus Ross has a good ear especially if you get to work with Trent reznor for yrs.

[@JohnlivesontheIsleofMannow]

The theme song is it done by the same artist that done that Monarch theme song?

[@rocko7711]

❤

[@OwnYourBaldSpot]

The way Toronaga yelled “don’t accept it!” to save his son makes the ending so tragic

[@Marvelousgamer7697]

That ending!?!??!?! This show is a masterpiece, and I'm NOT ready for it to end! I love Shōgun!

[@geelove4974]

U wish 😂 character that don't make any sense. You put him in the show to die stupidly. To me you lose a lot of people off of this show because of that move. Trust me bad storyline bad writing. I like the 80s show better, all this technology now 😢 shegun episode 7 was stupid to me the worst

[@Ghost-kn9bd]

@@geelove4974yeah hated the way they did his death

[@captain_britain]

@@geelove4974 Good thing this was only episode 7

[@geelove4974]

​@@Ghost-kn9bdfacts 👌🏾

[@geelove4974]

​@@captain_britain😂😂 right right

[@sterlingrosario28]

Nagakado shows us all the consequences of over eagerness, ambition untamed and unchecked is defeat by our own hand

[@KK-fi6ms]

Was it just ambition? Yabushige's nephew is ambitious. Nagakado felt more like a son desperate to prevent his father from surrendering to his death. His fault was overestimation of his abilities, and over-eagerness to prove himself to his father.

[@viniciusribeiro1112]

@@KK-fi6ms Ambition untamed. Omi is ambitious, but he knows when and how to act. Little whispers here, a piece of advice there, and he is climbing the latter. I agree with your analysis of Nagakado. And i will add: Nagakado, to me, knew internally that he does not have the cunning and intelligence of his father and wanted to compensate. That was dangerous.

[@raynerstuelgalid]

Or callowness.

[@thomasrinos83]

The actor who plays Torunaga is a legend. The first moment i saw him in the show made me serious for what masterpiece im gonna watch. Top tier tv show, one of its kind. It could somehow develop as Vikings did

[@safuwanfauzi5014]

Europe have Vikings and Knight Asia have Samurai Middle East with Janssisarries Sub-Sahara??? what medieval epic sub-sahara from central africa republic, congo, angola, south sudan can we made?

[@JeremyIceAndFire33]

Another phenomenal episode, great writing, high drama, betrayal, everything I love about this series.

[@raynerstuelgalid]

Indeed. The "action" and tension are generated in the minds of the viewers. Only in the last part in EP.7 are there actually what passed for the typical Hollywood actions: physical actions (think turning, twisting, many moving screen elements, endless impossible camera angles and POVs of typical MCU movies) that poor showrunners present as supreme drama.

[@TamMag-gh1ug]

I love the opening theme, but it is great that each episode has a different ending theme. It fits each episode perfectly. And this time the ending theme was the sound of rain and insects. Japanese love to use the sound of rain and insects in their music and poetry. Fuji told Nagakado. “We do what we can, when we can. We can only hope it’s enough.” This ending was probably the result of his thinking about what he could do. Who could blame him? It was just love for his father. I felt that Nagakado's hope was expressed in the sound of the rain and the little insects at the ending.

[@DianeWolff-w3w]

Loved the scene between Toranaga and Gin. Very moving.

[@mako9574]

Gin is inspired by Shoji Jinemon, Founder of Yoshiwara, his hometown is close to Izu. Tokugawa Ieyasu gave him approval to have red-light district in Edo.

[@dtub10]

The way the episode ended took me by such a surprise, like my mouth was left wide open- hoping he was just unconscious but saddened when I saw the blood. It was so random, yet so well written.

[@junejasminedavis2275]

The scene with Gin was fantastic also the scene with Mariko … I truly wish shogun had more episodes.. and I wish I could be part of this great masterpiece

[@ΓιάννηςΠαπαδόπουλος-χ1χ]

What an episode! Can't wait for the next three. Sorrow that ends. Now I know what will keep me company in the summer, along with the sun, the blinds and my friends. The book and the series over and over again.

[@grenathan]

There’s so much to say about this brilliant show, but I am so glad that whilst listening to this pod episode, I was thinking about how epic the opening theme tune is, you and the composer also started talking about the exact same thing. The synchronicity is real. Such a pleasure to be enjoying everything associated with this show. Thank you

[@geelove4974]

What nots episode 7😢

[@ygh9905]

This show is amazing ! I am not ready for it to end 😢

[@Hechicera86]

🥺💔💔💔💔💔💔

[@Alejandro-ny9pv]

Don’t want the show to end 🥲

[@Hechicera86]

💔💔🥺💔💔💔

[@Cmtwrt-ru8gj]

Both the novel and the show are based on historical facts, but being entertainment, they also include direction. It is not a recreation of Japanese history at that time, It's a fictional character and story. But, the materials used(buildings,props,set-design,costumes,accessories,old-Japanese-language,characters'names,actions,spirit,sensibilities,morals,manners,etiquette,sound(music),etc…)are extremely realistic. Even if the story is fiction,Japanese people can enjoy it without spoil atmosphere because the material is realistic. I appreciate them.

[@lawbinson]

Gin was fantastic

[@mikeyloveshousemusic]

CHEFS 💋. Oh, this show is excellent. Sooooo good. The actor who is playing Lord Torunaga son, you can literally feel his ambition and desire for a fate with greatness. Oh, bittersweet.

[@Qrt99]

One foreshadowed by his father, one foreshadowed by his brother .

[@eight2one]

I'm speechless to be honest.. a great and beautiful story .. thanks for sharing.. especially your opinion and from the casts .. ❤️❤️❤️

[@terry43]

This entire episode was sooo Tense !!!!

[@jurgenvitollari]

The show is great, so detailed that you feel like living there at that moment. However they have done so many things different from the book, Naga's death being one of them, most important difference so far I would say.

[@peterlori36]

THE SURRENDER. This has to be one of the best scenes . John Blackthorn getting up and having a wobbler. with the risk of having his head removed by Buntaro. and the look from Tadanobu Asano. starting to like this character. great show cannot wait for the next episode. thanks

[@markm.apostol3621]

It doesn't make sense what blackthorn did in that scene. I'mma like " Huh ? Sit down white boy ".

[@lawbinson]

With his son no longer needing saving, there's no need for him to sacrifice himself anymore

[@eddiel7635]

He’s got something up his sleeve, hence the comment from the brothel lady, she recognised that things aren’t adding up.

[@1998rg]

He was never going to sacrifice himself dude read between the lines

[@the3rdbean]

The brothel lady knew what he was doing thus he wanted her to not mention nothing to no one. And respected her

[@weemeemoo]

​@@the3rdbean Or she planted the idea

[@geelove4974]

The show is getting boring too much talking

[@mitchyG90210]

I had a sneaking suspicion that Toranaga was willing to assassinate his brother to take back control, then Nagakado threw another wrench into the plan. Eagerly anticipating what comes next!

[@skrible71]

I feel like episode 7 is a buildup to something massive, which we'll get in episode 8. Next week can't come any faster

[@SamPashmi]

My gosh this episode was bad

[@Ghost-kn9bd]

@@SamPashmiagreed another wasted week just like last week, pacing has been terrible

[@aerotheepic]

@@SamPashmithis episode was bad? I agree the previous couple episodes were slow but this one was a lot better imo. Tuesdays certainly can’t come quick enough but I really enjoyed this episode.

[@geelove4974]

​@@Ghost-kn9bdfacts

[@davidholaday2817]

"Why is it that only those who have never fought in a battle are so eager to be in one?"

[@barbarianremover2463]

This show set the tone that the audience "favourite" character could be died in any moment

[@herschelleseteria4280]

The only show that give me the goosebumbs GoT gave me.

[@geelove4974]

What nots episode 7😂😂😂 bad storyline bad writing

[@709mash]

​@@geelove4974 wow, what a bad take. This was the best episode yet and the writing was great! Man, your expectations must be wildly impossible.

[@matthewmob2860]

Honestly at first I thought I was infected by the book an original. The 1st episode of this show is what began my interest and intrigue in Shogun. I saw the 1980s special and read the book in between the first few episodes of this series (2024). Now idk lol. I love the acting it’s amazing. The shots are beautiful and the story is playing out crazy. Holding it to the book it does bother a little that the story is changed but I love the acting so much that I have to respect it as a stand-alone, reimagination of sorts of the original or book. Hiro is amazing and I love all his works so I could never say this isn’t great work as it is.

[@teakanji9864]

Crazy episode

[@netowl3922]

The ending of this episode left my jaw dropping

[@VegetaLaunchedFinalFlash]

In scene with Toronaga and Gin, Gin says that its not smart to leave an army in the open because spys are everywhere, insinuating that Toronaga's army is secretly larger. He surely may have made more allies around Japan that disagrees with Ishidos machinations.

[@victorlin4645]

So sad to see Torananga yell "don't accept it!" to save his son from seppuku only to have it all end due to a fragrant disregard for wearing a helmet during rambunctious activity.

[@talisa222]

Always wear a helmet...

[@SunflowerFlowerEmpire]

His plan has always been to set a path for Mariko to rise to power. Even his own son wasn't trained in any combat.

[@kevinprince9527]

Yoshiwara still to this day is a protected district in (Edo) Tokyo, even if prostitution is considered illegal in Japan. The gov't permits the exchange of sexual commerce in keeping it's promise ever since the edo period.

[@akim2007p]

Didn’t watch old version of movie. Didn’t read the book. So far, really like the show. What’s a point to make it the same as previous movie? Death of Naga looks logical, silly boy, he would drop off from horse on a way to Osaka and break his neck if not die in this episode.

[@atrefre]

Nothing is over till it’s over. Does the survival of his brother from what seemed certain death, foreshadows Toranaga’s fate? And did he had to loose his child to gain him dream?

[@MelMelx365]

There has to be a Crimson sky after what happened in this episode,it has to be!

[@ITFDBLA]

Omg my heart 👀🥹😳

[@mem5860]

Rurouni kenshin that anime have great ancient japan music, so good

[@khaii13]

Is this episode a total misdirect? like why the heck was Buntaro and Mariko asking their "Last request" to Toranaga? Especially after the reveal of the last episode, it seems dissonant. Then there's the part where Blackthorne speaks rudely to the war assembly in the end but was allowed to just walk even with his titles, probably because he is a barbarian... There must be an exit strategy, as before walking out, Blackthorne names Yabushige, and Nagakado (both trained to handle the cannon regiments).

[@b0r1nGurlly]

Yeah I wondered why he mentioned their names…

[@barneyrubble1964]

I do wonder if we will get the next books in the Saga (Tai-Pan & Gai-Jin) the latter being the end of the Shogunate period in the 1860s, the former is about the formation of Hong Kong so moves away from Japan

[@luiggimoncion]

Epic

[@suzaneceada]

Still waiting for the ep 8 trailer....

[@abc92800]

This show is changing a lot from the book. Might as well put Blackthorne in supporting! Lol jk, but this was pretty obvious two episodes ago and from what the showrunners have said about changing the perspectives. Also obvious from the differences of his character. But that also means you are changing the core of the story a lot by making Blackthorne kind of trivial.

[@optiondezzo1513]

Blackthorne is Toranaga's "Ace in the Hole". ;-)

[@DS2]

Is it just me, or does Gin have the speaking style of an anime villain? The tight-lipped speech, the vocal fry...it's like she hasn't revealed her true form

[@jhramberg]

Naga does not die in the book. Why did you choose to kill him?

[@TamMag-gh1ug]

I thought Nagakado was modeled after Tokugawa Hidetada, who succeeded Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), but Nobuyasu (Ieyasu's oldest son) might be the model for Nagakado. In history, Nobuyasu and his mother already died by the command of Oda Nobunaga (Kuroda=Lady Ochiba’s dad) before this period. Nagakado's death creates the effect of a deeper sense of karma between Toranaga and Lady Ochiba. That is no mistake in historical fact. In fact, however, Lady Ochiba's model is not the daughter of Oda Nobunaga, but his niece.

[@jhramberg]

So are they adapting the novel or history to further the narrative?

[@TamMag-gh1ug]

@@jhramberg Both this series and the book are fiction. But these are based on Japanese history. Unfortunately, there are only 10 episodes in this series, so it would be challenging to stay true to the historical facts and the book. But this series was created to feel more authentic while paying respect to the book and the old series, as stated by the producers in their interviews. Even though the timeline of this series and the names of the characters differ from historical facts, it is true that Ieyasu once lost his successor. The story of Ieyasu's anger at the failure of his son, his next successor, is also well-known. I enjoy this series because it contains many scenes that remind me of true stories. I’m glad you enjoy it too.

[@jhramberg]

I have seen something similar to this with the Middle-earth novels. Going off book or deleted content will always have its champions and critics.

[@TamMag-gh1ug]

@@jhramberg It's proof that the original books are great❤☺

[@wusongjunnvivian9813]

Toranaga can send his falcon to ask for help from Edo. The Christian regents will also help him out together with the Portuguese. Thank me later.

[@TheKangist]

That ending was hilarious, pissed myself

[@SamPashmi]

That’s cruel

[@issachartan2164]

​@@SamPashmi read the comment again and try to understand

[@TheKangist]

@@SamPashmi Whatever

[@UnMinutoViajando]

Comment if you think that Toronaga becomes Shogun on the second season 😅😅

[@netowl3922]

There's not going to be a 2nd season

[@UnMinutoViajando]

@@netowl3922 😭

[@Hechicera86]

👌👌💔💔🥺

[@Javelin_cat]

For the first time in a long time, I'm truly disappointed that I strayed from a book. Why that scene with Nagakada where he slipped and hit the rock? I'm afraid that no matter how much worse it gets, they'll suddenly decide to change the ending with Marika, Yabushige and others

[@Rabbithole8]

It's an adaption and Nagakado is not even in the book but his son Sudara is. Sundara is his third son which mirrors the actual third son of Tokugawa Ieyasu, Hidetata who becomes the Shogun after his father. Now, it is possible his name comes up in episode eight. No adaption from a novel is simply a page by page visual depiction. As long as the adaption does not transforms the source material to something it isn't, and attempts to be as accurate as possible to the main plot and main characters, it has done its job. I'm sure at the end of the series, Mariko, Yabushige (Yabu in the novel) will be where they supposed to be. With your confusion of characters and names, does it matter that this adaption changed some details?

[@calvingoh9321]

Crimson horseshit? Wait till next episode.

[@Dory341]

Nagakado naive 😒

[@DaniEles-rc7ij]

Bad to deviate from the book this much... the slip and fall is just a dumb way to kill off the kid.

[@Warrenthornton-therealtruth]

Naga does not die in the book wtf is this ?

[@alantracy6757]

Me and my dad watched 15 minutes found it incredibly slow and boring and watched a programme about fixing cars instead

[@gindginnest3336]

_==_

[@alantracy6757]

God it’s slow … where’s the action ?

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

I really love Fuji/Fuji(ko) 's & AnjinSan's Relationship SPOILERS 🪻🪻🪻9🪻9🪻9🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻🪻 they are not lovers or husband and wife -in the western sense but Mariko says Fuji(ko) loves you, she will giveby ou her life what more could she give. But it's even more special they become deeply friends,. I think the women in his life more than anyone make sure of his success!!!

[@ronniegonzalez8622]

I’ve loved every episode but this one just left me staring at the screen bored out of my mind. And the ending was just…I don’t know. I wanna love it but I don’t.

[@marijna6540]

True, nothing real has been happening for the last 3 episodes lol

[@JonnyLokz]

This was probably the best episode

[@qtchan3641]

it's because most people these days are just looking for plot and excitement. which is why kudos to this series for turning out more mature stuff and topic for grownups. it's a rare gem.

[@TheKangist]

The last episode was much more tedious, this was an improvement

[@JeffreyBernabe]

This generation is cooked. or social media video spree infected the society

[@dikapradipta1545]

This show make me hate japan even more

[@geelove4974]

I love Shogun but the show is getting boring too much talking is getting long dragged out .is getting to seem like you ain't got good storyline. you better change, speed up . people going to lose off it's .getting long and boring

[@carpeimodiem]

I was 100% on board with every step of the series and episode until the whoopsie daisy. Nahh, fam...!? Not like this... NOT LIKE TH😭 I was into the last minute brothel assassination. I figured it was boiling up when the madame came to claim her stick of time. I suspected that was the subtext. But in this series, even the subtext has subtext. So you never know. But it did sound like she smelled a trap. Was this supposed to be an earthquake parable?? Sometimes the earth shakes under you... and sometimes you shake upon it. One must be twice as prepared for each step in the Ja-pans?? 🤷 Couldn't we save that lesson for another day, tho? 💔

[@nyantaro-momo2]

This is Japan right now. Japan has no allies. America is not a true ally either. Today, Japan is nothing more than a pawn for the prosperity of rice. Today's Japan is truly in the age of a single stick of incense. The biggest difference is that there is no Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, or Ieyasu in Japan today.

[@SamPashmi]

The amount of nonsense in your comment is confounding

[@xanimegax]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[@earthgraduate726]

Such a waste of talents and efforts ! The cinematographer insists on filming in dark or making it dark in post edit for absolutely no reason (saving on the budget maybe). It ruined every single detail of buildings , cloths etc. just to make you concentrate on the message all the way , it's absurd. Acting though is ok somehow. But lack of depth to the story and unnecessary complexity is all over the place.

[@Mack_au]

Yeah, their attempting to get into the headspace of the characters, and it's a total snooze. Blackthorns words at the end +1

[@qtchan3641]

Asian cinema isn't for you

[@Mack_au]

@@qtchan3641 agree its fing boring!!

[@qtchan3641]

@@Mack_au then i think u should just quit it. there's way too much mature and political stuff in this series and definitely not for u.

[@Mack_au]

Already have. Better things to be doing.

[@JeffreyBernabe]

It's people like this is why US TV show has average 8 episodes nowadays. We used to have 20-25 episodes

[@SamPashmi]

This episode was SO SHITTY!!!!!

[@Ghost-kn9bd]

Another disappointing episode. It’s sad because the show had a great start and good potential but since mid season the quality has dropped massively with plot pace and story. People really thought this would be on the level of thrones and house of the dragon that’s not happening anymore lol

[@meruk8682]

then why are you still watching?? your comment in itself is a hypocrisy 😂

[@Ghost-kn9bd]

@@meruk8682it’s almost as if it’s possible to like something to watch and be critical of what you dislike about it

[@テスト-p7j]

回答（5件） 新しい順古い順参考になる順 TAKA0824 TAKA0824さん 2023/9/23 15:49 比叡山延暦寺が5割にも及ぶ高利貸しをして払えないと九州の奴隷商人に売り飛ばしてその資金力を背景に大名並みの力をつけて迂闊に手を出せないぐらいに強大となった話は聞いたことあります。 NEW! この回答はいかがでしたか？ リアクションしてみよう 参考になる 0 ありがとう 0 感動した 0 面白い 0 mek******** mek********さん 2023/9/19 12:50（編集あり） 他の方が書いてるとおり大友宗麟が海外に奴隷売買をしていたとする資料はありません。 秀吉が九州征伐で奴隷売買で怒ったという逸話は大友ではなく島津の奴隷売買に対してです。 加藤清正が島津の奴隷売買を調査していて秀吉に報告していて、その事に関連した書状が残っています。 大友宗麟が奴隷貿易をやっているという誤解が広がったのは明治のある歴史学者が著書にキリシタン大名が奴隷貿易をやっていたという断定的な事を書いたため、宗麟の名前があったわけではないもののキリシタン大名という事で宗麟の所業として広く流布してしまったんです。 参考になる 3 ありがとう 0 感動した 0 面白い 0 ail******** ail********さん カテゴリマスター 2023/9/19 5:56 戦争捕虜を奴隷にして、輸出もした。 火薬原料の硝石とのバーター貿易。 相手が宣教師とキリスト教徒。 相場表が多く残っている。 信玄は自領の農民売って硝石手に入れてる。 硝石なければ火縄ジュウもタダの鉄棒。 硝石国産は江戸時代から。 秀吉は伴天連追放令の前年に奴隷貿易禁止令出してる、他の大名が硝石得るの防ぐ為、守られなかった。 参考になる 0 ありがとう 0 感動した 0 面白い 0 loo******** loo********さん 2023/9/18 20:40 Q「戦国時代のキリシタン大名は、戦の後、他国の領民を、奴隷として南蛮人に売り飛ばしていたりもしたのですか。」 他国の領民かは解らないのですがキリシタン大名では「有馬晴信」は宣教師からの提言で、領内の日本人男女を南蛮人に売ったとする史料があります。 ただキリスト大名だけではなく「織田信長、武田信玄、島津義久」などキリシタン大名では無い大名が他国だったり自国の「奴隷」を「奴隷商人」に売ったとする史料は存在し、この中で南蛮に売られて行った者も居たかもしれません。また「上杉謙信」も関東において戦争時に奴隷商人による「奴隷市」を場所や期間を許可するお触れを出しています。 それこそ大友家の領土に攻め込んだ島津家による「人狩り」の史料が存在します。 なので戦国大名の中にはキリスト大名に関係なく自国・他国の人間を奴隷化後に奴隷商人にそれらを売っている史料は存在します。 説明としましては「戦国時代」には日本では「勾引（人身売買）」の商売は存在し「人売り（奴隷商人）」も存在し、各大名から「納税」や「上納」の代わりに「市」を開く許可をもらって商売をしていたようです。 Q「当時の日本なんて、まさに他の部族を襲うことが日常的な戦国時代です。また、戦の後は人刈りを行われてていたと聞きます。九州征伐で秀吉が奴隷貿易を見つけてブチギレた話は有名ですが。大友宗麟等は、戦の後、負けた領地の民を宣教師に売ったりしていたのですか?」 大友宗麟が奴隷を売っていたと説明する学者とその書籍は存在するのですが、実はその根拠となる「史料」は無い状態です。 むしろ大友家の領土に侵攻した「島津軍」による「人狩り」と「人売り」の史料がある状態で、正に島津家は他国の領民を狩って売ったと言う史料です。 Q「単に貧しくて売られるだけでなく、キリシタン大名が奴隷貿易をしていた記録はないのでしょうか?」 そういった記録や史料は無いです。 上記の「有馬晴信」も宣教師から言われてそれを許可した形です。 「奴隷商売、奴隷商人、奴隷市」があった戦国時代にあって戦国大名はその商売の「許可」をする感じで、率先して行うほどでは無いです。 上杉謙信の「奴隷市の許可」も「何日～何日まで、この場所（特定の場所）での奴隷市を許します」といった物で謙信が「人を売るのだ！」と率先していたわけではないですね。 参考になる 2 ありがとう 0 感動した 0 面白い 0 ねこだましい ねこだましいさん 2023/9/18 18:31 「乱妨取り」という単語も当時はありました。奴隷狩りという意味です。外国に関係なく、荘園の「下人」は奴隷、「所従」は半奴隷ですな。 一級史料とされる信長公記に「越前で4万人を捕らえて、殺したり、売ったりした」との奴隷狩りを淡々と書かれています。 奴隷狩りについての古文書では、上杉軍と島津軍のものがよく残っているそうな。 近江の村の古文書には、村ＶＳ村のケンカで殺人や奴隷狩りが行われ、奴隷に売られた親族を買い戻すための借金の方法まで確立されていた事が書かれていました。 高校日本史で習う自検断の実態はこのようなものでした。 島津軍は北九州に近いし、当時は日本海側海運で越前の織田軍に囚われた奴隷も運べるし、琵琶湖＋日本海で運ばれた奴隷もいたでしょうし。 その他の回答（1件） 新しい順古い順参考になる順 kou******** kou********さん 2021/5/11 12:29 キリシタン大名とは限らない。 島津が九州を制圧すると、島津による奴隷狩りが大々的に行われ、日本人奴隷の価格が大暴落しています。 薩摩は農作物が育たず、昔から主要産業が奴隷売買でしたから。

[@Politicallyhomeless957]

I want my stick of time back. This episode sucks. I blame the writers and producers not the actors.