The Need for Reformation in Evangelical Ecclesiology | Voddie Baucham

2017 G3 Conference - Session 11
Voddie Baucham preached in the eleventh session of the 2017 G3 Conference. His topic was, "The Need for Reformation in Evangelical Ecclesiology." NOTE: All content of the G3 Conference is protected under copyright law. You can share content, but we ask that you place a link back to the G3Conference.com website or KZbin.com channel when you share.
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[@ricardojames9937]

Just wow! Glory be to God 🙌🏾 I'm in desperate need of a Reformation in my Ecclesiology 🙌🏾

[@tford9]

The Authentic Gospel preached.

[@spiritman-em4qr]

My wife and I absolutely love being actively involved in our local church, and we trust the church leadership in their authority over our spiritual lives. Such a blessing! We looked for a church for 20 years, and never gave up!

[@song4night]

I feel very motivated to now join a church!

[@scottshelley5]

@song4night. Have you found a church family to belong to?

[@scottshelley5]

@dale, why not?

[@Fernando-qs7bl]

You might want to read where satan is over the churches, allowed by God to prepare this world for the end. I offer you 3 verses, 1stPeter 4:17-Judgement has begun, 2ndThesalonions 2-1-12- Shows satan ruling in now in all corporate churches, and Matthew 24:15- Shows that the true belivers who see this have to get out of these churches, because the abomination that maketh it desolate, has been set up. God has loosed him, and he is the hireling.

[@song4night]

@@Fernando-qs7bl 5 years later and I still haven't joined a church. My trust is in Jesus alone.

[@Fernando-qs7bl]

@@song4night May he bless you continually.

[@Psalm119-50]

Beautiful preaching with the love of Christ pouring through this man!

[@kapitanmuahaha6240]

What a sobering and powerful message! Thank you!!!

[@KeithThompson52]

Great sermon!!

[@trackske1]

The painfull truth, thank God !

[@MrsK1689SDG]

Amen brother Voddie! This message blessed my husband and I when we listened to the conference live at home this year. We love our local church and the fellowship that we have weekly with our brothers and sisters throughout the week and on the Lord's day!

[@suzanneyorkville]

I love my local church. And I am so grateful for confirmation. Also you are the first preacher I have heard put the Matthew scripture in its proper context.

[@brucebrock6383]

A timely message for our day. Thank God for His truth.

[@essence1771]

This is Preaching to the Bottom! Thank you Pastor Voddie Baucham for calling the Body of Christ out to support The Local Church and to turn aside from the Cotton Candy Church Ministries. Thank you Jesus!!

[@jamesspano3887]

By the way Voddie love you and so appreciate your guidance may God bless us both with better understanding

[@bamarmane4208]

''And Instead of being men who are regularly on our faces, begging God to give us food for people whose names' we know... We would instead slowly become men who ask God to help us perform well for the audience listening beyond'' This makes me understand why sometimes when I watch some people preaching, I perceive that they are ''performing''.

[@michaelceleskey4932]

Love me some voddie

[@marthastevebrown1685]

This is a new Pastor for me to hear. This message was very helpful to me in viewing my local church . Thank you

[@user-wl9km6ov1f]

Thank you Pastor, for the message and God's power of truth flowing through you to the people that understand and are willing to make a true change. God bless you and your family his true light does indeed shine through you, servant of Jesus Christ.

[@thecrew777]

I wish I could get behind this more. I agree: Christian fellowship in the church is necessary. However, I am housebound. And there are no churches in my area who do house-calls.....and even if they did, it would be difficult at best in my postage stamp sized studio apartment and the fact I'd need a worker to let people in and out for me. I'm grateful for the larger fellowship I CAN reach out to via phone, letters, blogs, and yes, online Christian and Biblically based sharing and teaching. VERY GRATEFUL. But here is the problem with that: not all of you are housebound like I am, and certainly those who are not housebound should be able to meet together as a local community of Christians. This should not just be set up for someone like me. But as far as "losing the local church"....and I'm speaking about only being a member, not a pastor, it was the BEST thing that ever happened in my life! To submit myself to pastors or priests who preach that Jesus is NOT Lord, to submit myself to pastors who embrace homosexuality? No thank you. I'd rather be stuck at home and thank my God for my position of having to rely entirely on Him and His Word and the fellowship that I can have daily with other Christians, than have to deal with yet One More Heretical "pastor". If there were true churches anywhere around me, perhaps I'd agree. But I've been searching and searching and so far, none have turned up. Not one. So no, I don't see losing the local church as a loss. Not in America. Not in 2018.

[@bretoner2]

The church I had been attending in my local area is pentecostal. It's led by a woman who's also been divorced and remarried to a divorced man. She does have a heart for God and speaks a lot of truth. But I can't help question if she should be behind the pulpit.

[@billyingram3492]

Nope

[@Yesica1993]

About 17:00 minutes in - I did not know about this shift in missions from church planting to social issues. That's horrifying. I had to stop for now at about 26 minutes. But I have to say, it's so refreshing to see a sermon and emphasis on the local church!

[@rlyle5804]

I would LOVE to have a church home! In thirty years of searching, living in three states, I have YET to set foot in a church that preaches the gospel, let alone practices church discipline. ever. I find "your best life now" preaching everywhere.

[@LifeintheBlood]

I would love a home church too. Right now I have fellowship but when i am led to a church it is generally for a trial and battle. The church is in disrepair

[@daniellewright2484]

Pray for God to lead you to one, hope you’ve found one by now or will soon ♥️

[@LifeintheBlood]

@@daniellewright2484 I have found one. A place where I can serve the body amen.

[@robertbrooks6533]

I love me some Voddie. However, I would say we "lost" the "Local Church" because we have went away from Scripture to define the Local Church of God. I think Elders need to lead the charge in showing what the bible describe as the "Local Church", before ridiculing people for not adopting to the cultures view of the "Local Church". We also need to spend time supporting fighting for a clear distinction of what is the local church of God versus an assembly of wolves and goat. Lastly, the Local Church of God will never be lost as long as you have a community of believers. May not be HEALTHY, but it is still a Local Church based on what Scripture says.

[@reegansamsonjames6305]

Amen!

[@noddfachurch4968]

Yes yes yes

[@phieble]

I assume with great confidence that Dr. Baucham's heart and intentions are in the right place and that many need to hear what he has to say. If there is an aversion to the local church then there are some underlying issues that need to be dealt with. God's people were not meant to be shepherdless sheep with no one holding them accountable, with no one feeding them spiritually and discerning the legitimacy of their profession while urging them and helping them in their maturity. God through thd Holy Spirit did not give the gifts of teacher and elder for no reason, and families and individuals as well as they possibly can, should desire and strive to commit themselves to a solid, Bible-based, Christ-exalting local church where they can be used to edify others and be edified by others. Now where the issue is, is where we don't acknowledge the poor condition of so many local churches in the west. If there is to be a reformation on ecclesiology then it must start with the elders who are called to shepherd God's flock, because so many are not truly called by God and they are not qualified or gifted by the Holy Spirit, yet they assume that position for their own selfish means and congregations suffer. I don't think that the majority of people value the universal church over the local church, but some people are not willing to follow the tradition of the local church in vain where they are not being edified and they are not realizing the ways in which they can be used by God to help others. I, myself, learned all my theology from reading the Biblie myself, utilizing the gotquestions.org resource, and listening to internet sermons of Mr. Paul Washer, Dr. Voddie Baucham, Elder John Piper and others, and like Baucham pointed out, my knowledge of God's word may be more consistent than that of many people who sit in a pew under poor leadership every Sunday. I don't want to sound arrogant, because after all these years I still see myself as a babe in Christ, and I am in no position to condemn God's institution of the local church, yet it is my earnest opinion that the resources on the internet and the ability to connect with brethren on social media sites for the time being, is a massive gift by the providential grace of God, granted probably because God knew of the status quo of things, and was concerned enough to provide his sheep with what they need nontraditional means. I'm grateful for these resources and that I get to connect with bros. and sisters like yourself, but at the same time, I don't undervalue the local church and as soon as I find one close enough to me and I gain the means, I will gladly be attending, that is if the governmental powers don't strip all our rights away. It doesn't have to be one or the other. We can and SHOULD benefit from what God has provided of the universal church on the internet while also submitting ourselves to good, Spirit-filled leaders and elders and commit ourselves to serving our brethren with all our hearts and might in our local vicinity.

[@jamesspano3887]

Well said I too have come to the same conclusion that from my experience can't find a church in Massachusetts preaching the true Gospel like stated

[@gregkabakjian4332]

I feel like it is ironic that I'm watching this on the internet..

[@9058577349]

Amen brother!

[@VincentConard]

I was thinking the same exact thing! How ironic indeed. Amen, brother.

[@Yesica1993]

@ Greg Kabakjian "I feel like it is ironic that I'm watching this on the internet.." It is a bit ironic! (The same thought went through my mind.) But his point is not that that listening to Christian teaching on radio or internet is wrong. It's just that many people substitute that for personal involvement in a local church. I see it all the time. It doesn't end well. We need each other!

[@VincentConard]

Thanks @Eric Moorman. I needed that reminder, my brother.

[@rachray83]

Eric Moorman funny how many ppl missed that 😕

[@pcpc3134]

🙏

[@mst3ksanta]

most misquoted verses are continually misquoted by people that don't read the bible and only listen to other people's takes. from my experience that is. hope this video blows up. great message so far

[@mst3ksanta]

14:36 the inquisition typically would just correct peoples misinterpretation of the bible. The only time they killed a group of people was when a cult that promoted self harm, su***de, and murder came about and refused to negotiate and have peace talks. The community came. The church then as a reaction to this incident would increase the scrutiny of how individuals would be charged and punished in the church... giving way to our modern judicial systems. Nice to see the verse described accurately that gave the church the powers to do such inquisition (question and talks) btw they did not want to torture and kill because that would only create martyrs of new cults and off shoots of Christianity.

[@Alex_Me_Anderer]

Over 20 years ago I was going to a local church, they destroyed my marriage, turned my wife and children against me, psychologically manipulated and abused me, and continue to this day to stalk me and slander me to every church I try attending. As well as turning family and friends and coworkers and bosses against me. Oh, I think they call it church discipline, but no one, NO ONE has ever told me what I supposedly did, never. Or even if disciplining me is what they are doing. Other than what I have been able to ascertain from their Gaslighting, I have no idea why they are doing this. They relentlessly continue to brutalize me, since 2000. But even so, I still agree with Voddie's assessment, after all, it is biblical.

[@user-zp4jh2vy8z]

Alex, just from reading your notes here, that church is in direct conflict to God's word. They are not to Lord over, but to feed the flock and be an example of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 5 I can definitely relate to what you are talking about. I was raised in a bad church. The main problem is they're not following the scriptures and abiding by the scriptures. I'm sorry brother that you had to deal with that nightmare.. Keep following Jesus Christ brother. Jesus is our pastor. He is the standard. He is the head of the church. ✝️

[@user-zp4jh2vy8z]

Alex, that church is in direct conflict with God's word. 1 Peter 5 says not to Lord over the flock, but to feed the flock and be an example of Jesus Christ. I'm sorry brother that you had to deal with that nightmare. Keep following Jesus Christ. He is the standard. He is the head of the church. ✝️

[@Alex_Me_Anderer]

@@user-zp4jh2vy8z Yes, thank you Tim. They are in conflict with many of God's Commands, from slandering, to causing people to stumble, to robbery, to gossiping, to lying and teaching others to lie, to bribery, to perverting justice, even divination where they use psychological manipulation on me and others... And when I called them out on their behaviors, they denied it, then stepped up their brutality.

[@SY-jq4yw]

The gate of hell can’t prevail against His Church. Local church pastor also needs a pastor for accountability and protection.

[@fredericmugisha4741]

Thanks Pastor Voddie, I am from Rwanda, and I agree with you in everything you said here, but my question is: I have never had the gospel being preached at my church until by grace of God I started watching John Piper, Paul washer, yourself, John MacArthurur, ... and I was exposed to reformation theology, now should I stop watching all sermons?

[@tombolt1632]

watch 33:12, I know its not a full answer to your question but i hope it helps :)

[@peacereigns8908]

Frederic Mugisha True bro, every church you attend nowadays it's all about health, wealth and prosperity hardened, cursing, kicking, binding and destroying the devil. I thank God for you guys(yourself, bro Paul washer, Dr Maccthur and the rest) whom you are ploughing very hard and deeply on the word of God. I wish that all called "churches pastors" be dispositional preachers. God bless you.

[@aleidachin]

Frederic Mugisha i think he's saying that we must submit, worship and pray for our pastors and our local Church we can not compare theologies and teachings but rather pray for and embrace our local Church! Blessings in Him

[@evanu6579]

Frederic Mugisha Reformation soteriology is false. Listen to some good teachers who test what these guys preach. It's not of the bible.

[@LeonardGarden]

+Frederic Mugisha you are not alone in seeking a true gospel-preaching church in your African country. I won't say it's impossible, but it is difficult and I share your pain. We need to train more pastors and solid theologians so we can have good preachers because even in the U.S. finding a pastor who rightly divides the word of God is difficult.

[@jonathand9793]

So many local church fellowships have been compromised by the distraction of the needs of a (nonprofit) business. Leaders and elders are hired to fill openings in an org-chart and the selection process looks much more like the corporate business world rather than what Paul was driving towards with the early church. Businesses provide goods and services and this model creates the notion that the professionals of the local church fellowship are the one qualified to do the work while a passive congregation sits is anergy. I’ve been a believer for over 20 years and my early development was affected very little by church services and articulate sermons. It was most profoundly developed through meaningful relationships where mentoring and discipleship could take place. I am a sojourner and I’ve learned not to abdicate my personal responsibility in my spiritual growth to local church professionals but instead to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. Too many people have been hurt or spiritually malformed by church leaders who were not worthy of the responsibility in the first.

[@8snamor]

Love the message, but how many adverts!!! (5 so far and there are more to come)

[@1966marmar]

Yes IT’s ridiculous!!! Makes me wonder if this is a copycat account for G3 gonna try sermon audio 😂

[@carolfoster6990]

Is it possible to get a transcript of this lecture?

[@n9wff]

Hard to find a church that strictly glorifies God and not glorifying their own church and its "services". Evangelism is no lomnger outside the church, it is done at the final two minutes of a weak, feel good sermon. It is much about them and less about Christ in the area where I live. Worse is church leaders are quenching the Spirit by telling its members "how to serve to benefit them" and not how to minister to the LORD.

[@OldMovieRob]

These are good points, but I've found it to be very difficult to convince Christians who seem convinced they no longer need to be a part of corporate worship anymore.

[@mr.gaines5496]

I agree with the teaching. But I do think we should provide answers for fellow believers who are struggling with local church issues specifically if it is related to false interpretations of scripture and false teachings. I had many disagreements with my former church. They were obscuring the Gospel, teaching false doctrines, and making me look crazy for questioning them. I had no one to turn to that I trusted to help me explore my understanding of what I was reading. I was confused because they kept telling me I didn’t have enough Holy Ghost to understand and should believe whatever the pastor said (unbiblical). The dynamic remained this way until it was “suggested” that I find another church more in line with my belief. Shortly after my departure, scandal broke out and the pastor was exposed for sleeping with one of the ministers.

[@a-d317]

😢happening in too many churches.

[@al.g9534]

is there any church that we should not join? i haven't joined because the churches ive been to are not reformed churches but have that whole pleasing people new age world view scene...im not even sure if i should let them baptize me and if it will be accepted by God given their beliefs i feel so lost in Jesus name I pray I find my church family Amen

[@ExplainingTheScriptures]

So, what does one do when his pastor is in doctrinal error? Submit? Or search out a biblically sound congregation that is in accord with the doctrines held though out church history?

[@erickosmicki7812]

I feel like when he quoted Galatians 1:18, he should have started at verse 16. 16 "to reveal His son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and retunred once more to Demascus." I dont think this negates his point but it seems like a very strange thing to omit when trying to make the point he making. What was Paul doing in Arabia and Damascus for 3 years? I would assume preaching the Gospel?

[@cheribriere7499]

Deaf people can't watch your videos G3 because there is no closed captioning, you have lost many that could be blessed. I ask that you step up and get with th 21st century and love all your neighbors including deaf/hard of hearing community. Thank you

[@juniorq5213]

Blessings from us here in Texas I have a huge question pastor many churches here locally say the are sound doctrine scripture led and si on on but does what does the scripture ask of us to do when many introduce all those pagan "holy days " and not to mention all the false visions what then should we do I was recomendé 4 churches by great men of GOD but this is what happen to the first one every pagan celebration where integrated to the service including the Halloween second one was about self proclaim apóstol and prophet third one celebrating same thing everything posible even changing the Halloween to fall fest but still dressing up and given out candy I'm sooo sorry but the LORD save me out of the WORLDLINESS I ones live so I used to celebrate just about everything so it didn't make cense how in the local church all this was going on when the lord him self call his people out from the mist of them 2 Corinthian 6:16-18 I assure you that if Elohim will open a local sound doctrine stricture led church near us I wouldn't have any Problem going but I still haven found any may the LORD forgive all of us if we are at wrong

[@kensairrichard]

why don't you plant a church yourself? or are you disqualified?

[@1966marmar]

Toooooooo many ads.

[@_ETLIFE]

I believe that what Voddie Baucham is saying is correct, but I feel that he is missing a crucial point: who is the local church? What are aspects of the local church do we need to be looking for so that we are not manipulated by those who are not? I believe this sermon is also for the leaders of the church. I believe that leaders of the church have failed which has caused us to be in the place we are in regard to the local church.

[@mst3ksanta]

first minute hoping this is a based and Jesus pilled post

[@LEGnewTube]

He should send that lady this sermon. 😂

[@djentile7773]

I agree. What if my church is a dead mess and biblically illiterate?

[@robertsanders335]

The Reformed view: God is sovereign. He has decreed all things for His glory, including the ecclesiastical degradation of western Christianity - the decline of believers valuing the local church. Am I missing something here?

[@jerichocalpo1415]

so that we may return to him, just like israel in her apostasy. so that the here and now will come to value what the was and before held for those who will and to come

[@jamesspano3887]

I understand what you're saying come to Massachusetts and tell me you hear a true gospel in this state you won't that's why people who truly believe and want to learn can't therefore the church is starving itself out doctrines of devil's you know of a church I'll attend it suggestions please send

[@jerrydeoleo9732]

Well... he cant preach at Furtick's

[@dsanders74]

Jerry DeOleo Wait, what!!!

[@jerrydeoleo9732]

Elevation Church doesn't welcome sound doctrine... They like that fluff

[@OvalleInspiracion]

eso es cierto lol

[@uttammollick4967]

I don't know who you are .... this is true in Bangladesh too ... I am suffering a lot .... you are so true . Please keep me in your prayer . join me in my struggle .... [e-mail] Greetings from Reflection ministry Bangladesh .

[@rachaelmessina3965]

I agree with the concept of accountability with other christians. However, I find it ironic that he is preaching about how we lost the local church and basically discouraging the spiritual gathering of christian fellowship on the internet...all while he has many many youtube videos. I understand that the internet should not replace real life relationships, but I think we can apply scripture to our personal lives on a smaller scale and still be faithful to the ideas and teachings of the Bible. I see the scriptures applied to my life mostly in my own family and extended family. I do make effort to build lasting relationships with other Christian women outside of family, but do not think that you need a large quantity of people (with all or most of whom you have shallow relationships with) to be faithful to the scriptures. I find that in my family is where I serve Christ on the deepest and most impactful level. I think as christians we need to put more emphasis on where the Holy Spirit leads us and put less energy into what seems right to us. The authority of men does not have it all figured out and will not have it all figured out. That is why seeking Christ with a repentant heart is critical. We need discernment and The Helper to know what to forsake or forbear. I don't think that approaching the idea of church membership in the way he did is very helpful or encouraging. At least, I speak for myself in that regard. In Christ nothing is lost. If we seek Him with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength, We will find Him. Maybe that is in a traditional church setting, maybe that is with one other geniune believer praying for/with you over coffee. I think your immediate community is important as it is a good opportunity to shine the light of Christ to the world and put to work the faith He has given you, but we have freedom in Christ to exercise discernment and wisdom in our decision to become an accepted member of a group of people in a building somewhere. I have felt personally that christians in "church" tend to keep me at arms reach because I am not "a member". I just think we should reflect on what The Spirit of God os doing in our hearts and lives and go from there. Instead of giving into social pressure to be apart of a group just for the sake of pleasing the elders. I apologize for rambling a bit here, but I just think this message could've been delivered in a way that actually did more good to those that heard it. I only watched 30 mins of it because I dislike the way it diminishes the reach and work of The Holy Spirit.

[@phieble]

I know I'm late to reply, but I read your comment and I know what you mean. I assume with great confidence that Dr. Baucham's heart and intentions are in the right place and that many need to hear what he has to say. If there is an aversion to the local church then there are some underlying issues that need to be dealt with. God's people were not meant to be shepherdless sheep with no one holding them accountable, with no one feeding them spiritually and discerning the legitimacy of their profession while urging them and helping them in their maturity. God through thd Holy Spirit did not give the gifts of teacher and elder for no reason, and families and individuals as well as they possibly can, should desire and strive to commit themselves to a solid, Bible-based, Christ-exalting local church where they can be used to edify others and be edified by others. Now where the issue is, is where we don't acknowledge the poor condition of so many local churches in the west. If there is to be a reformation on ecclesiology then it must start with the elders who are called to shepherd God's flock, because so many are not truly called by God and they are not qualified or gifted by the Holy Spirit, yet they assume that position for their own selfish means and congregations suffer. I don't think that the majority of people value the universal church over the local church, but some people are not willing to follow the tradition of the local church in vain where they are not being edified and they are not realizing the ways in which they can be used by God to help others. I, myself, learned all my theology from reading the Biblie myself, utilizing the gotquestions.org resource, and listening to internet sermons of Mr. Paul Washer, Dr. Voddie Baucham, Elder John Piper and others, and like Baucham pointed out, my knowledge of God's word may be more consistent than that of many people who sit in a pew under poor leadership every Sunday. I don't want to sound arrogant, because after all these years I still see myself as a babe in Christ, and I am in no position to condemn God's institution of the local church, yet it is my earnest opinion that the resources on the internet and the ability to connect with brethren on social media sites for the time being, is a massive gift by the providential grace of God, granted probably because God knew of the status quo of things, and was concerned enough to provide his sheep with what they need nontraditional means. I'm grateful for these resources and that I get to connect with bros. and sisters like yourself, but at the same time, I don't undervalue the local church and as soon as I find one close enough to me and I gain the means, I will gladly be attending, that is if the governmental powers don't strip all our rights away. It doesn't have to be one or the other. We can and SHOULD benefit from what God has provided of the universal church on the internet while also submitting ourselves to good, Spirit-filled leaders and elders and commit ourselves to serving our brethren with all our hearts and might in our local vicinity.

[@rachaelmessina3965]

@@phieble Hey thanks for your thoughts! I agree with what you are saying, and I want to clarify I am not opposed to attending a local church. I have attended and been blessed by my experience in them. My caution comes into play when people look to men over God himself, and as you mentioned, unqualified men. I agree we need one another for accountability, encouragement, growth, etc. but the scripture also says Jesus himself is our shepherd. We seek Him first, and follow where He leads. I agree with you that it is about discernment and balance...I just don't think things are as black and white as people portray. I also utilize both the internet and gathering with christians in my personal life. Walking with the Spirit is more than following the directions of men...including teachers I greatly respect. Ultimately, Jesus is our high priest, He tore the veil so that we have direct access to God....so that there was not a need for a man to intercede on our behalf. I wish the emphasis was more on seeking Him personally. When we do that every day, He guides, He gives wisdom and discernment to know what to do or where to go. I do agree with the general points of attending a local church, but without emphasis on the leading of the Holy Spirit and our personal relationship with Christ, that attendance may be to someones detriment. But with that being said, there is a reason for that too. God has a purpose for it, even the deception. I know He is sovereign over it all. I just have a distaste when people speak so authoritative on something that is multi dimensional for individual people. It's not so much what is said, but the spirit in which it is said. Thanks again for your reply!

[@rachaelmessina3965]

I do think though that God always guides christians to other christians. I can say this with certainty, He does not lead us into isolation. I hope anyone reading this is encouraged to seek Jesus, read His word every day, and follow His leading to fellowship with other proclaiming believers. God Bless.

[@phieble]

@@rachaelmessina3965 I'm glad to talk to you! My insta is istphillip if you would like to stay connected. God bless you as well! 🙏

[@craiggross9629]

FOR GOD SO LOVED.....THE WORLD... And the Bible says, "I WOULD THAT NONE (N.O.N.E ) SHOULD PERISH...." So if you are predestined for heaven....or hell....you should quit preaching cuz you can't change a thing or influence a person either way.

[@Powertoolz]

The church needs to be modernized. Not in a secular meaning but the local church has many quality of life issues that can be improved with our modern tools. The internet is way too powerful of tool to ignore. Many churches have weak websites or flat out ignore the internet. Make church more appealing for men. Men love accomplishing goals, give the men something to do after church. Men don't want a emotional experience so avoid asking them to hug each other. Dont play love songs like Jesus is my boyfriend, men hate that. just a few suggestions

[@Erix7810]

lol

[@Yesica1993]

@ Jay Smith Wise words!

[@Yesica1993]

@ Erix7810 "lol" Can you tell me what's so funny about the serious issues raised by Jay Smith and his suggestions? Of course not. That's why all you have to offer is internet mocking. Pathetic.

[@Erix7810]

I thought it funny that a comment like his would be made in response to Voddie's message. I wonder if that comment was made after having listened, or made without having listened.

[@dfischer1709]

we have the Bible, God has told us through His word how to set up the church. No need to make it relevant to the times we are to be worshipping to please God not men or women or lost people. The church is where believers come to bring praise to the Lord. The Bible in sufficient in everything.

[@LifeintheBlood]

I do not accept this message in entirety. There are many times in the Bible where the Lord blesses two or three in fellowshipping. We are to be seeking the will of the Lord. Going to a local church is a battlefield because almost all local churches are in conflict with the Spirit. We go where led. The problem is not he symptom. People are leaving the local churches because the there is no authority in them. This might very well be a move of the Spirit to strengthen a believer to go back to edify the body. To say that God does not call people out for periods of time is legalism. The pastor does not have the job of life advice ad affairs. The pastor's job is to point to the Word and the Spirit. Most authority in modern church is given of man. That authority might be blessed and might not. Out ultimate authority is the Spirit and the Word and if a person is under spiritual deception going to a local church won't help. They need to be on their knees and in the Word.

[@_ETLIFE]

Thank you so much for your comment. I just spoke about this. The fault of the local church I believe belongs mainly to the leaders, in the sense that there are few. We have so many more charlatans than leaders.

[@matthewvaughan3245]

Only 8 min into this and taking things out of context already, I can't watch the rest

[@Yesica1993]

@ Matthew Vaughan "Only 8 min into this and taking things out of context already, I can't watch the rest" Notice how you didn't provide the evidence of whatever he supposedly took out of context? After 8 minutes, do you think you have a full grasp of what he was saying? What nonsense.

[@scottshelley5]

@Matthew. Yes, please provide how Voddie has taken anything out of context. I am 10 minutes in and I have witnessed no such thing?

[@ZhenyaSidorov]

scottshelley5 the Mathew chapter 18 passage about church disciple seems a bit out of context, my understanding was the church or body of Christ was born later when the Holy Spirit comes. Christ’s agenda was not to set up ground rules for church, He might of as well built a nice temple with a foundation that can’t be demolished. Chapter 18 talks about relationships between people, and mainly forgiveness. We all need to get on the same page here.

[@dfischer1709]

@@Yesica1993 sorry but matthew 18 is Jesus telling them how to handle a church member who has turn away, after three attempts he is put out of the church. clearly describing church discipline.

[@sonnyh9774]

Voddie, you should be ashamed and know better than to not check the greek on such an important verse as Heb 13:17. Look in Nave's greek lexicon of the New Testament. It does not mean obey your leaders. It means be persuaded by which is totally different. Authoritarians misuse this verse and abuse people with it and you are enabling them. Verse 7 clarifies that we should imitate the elders. Matt 20:27 - Jesus says you- disciples-leaders will not lord it over the people. Paul in many places says... imitate our/my way of life. "Obey" in Heb 13:17 is eisegesis of the text ... or making it fit your opinion rather than exegesis ... or letting the Word speak for itself. Voddie, you are caught in a system that requires you to bend scripture to fit your fancy. That being said... I think you are funny and a good speaker, but either you or Nave's Greek Lexicon is wrong. I'll go with Nave's and the rest of Scripture.

[@LeonardGarden]

+Sonny H -- The Greek says you're right about 'Obey' (ESV) (Greek=peiyesye) in Heb 13:17. The word tends toward 'persuasion' rather than blind obedience, but then driving the verb home, the author of Hebrews uses another similar one: "submit'... (ESV) (Greek=upeikete) which DOES exhort to 'yield to authority and admonition' so while 'obey' in most English translations may sound a bit strong, the second exhortation to submit to authority seems to back it up in the case where there may be doubts. I think the author is gently exhorting that both persuasion AND submission are essential to an orderly church (if I may put in a penny or two cents of analysis). Your post is nevertheless helpful. Thanks for sharing insights including Heb.13:7 and Matt 20:27. By the way, I agree that some deacons in churches will abuse of power reserved for elders and this can be a problem. I guess you can't preach all dimensions of a text in one sermon.