Commodore Amiga TF4060 Prototype (060 CPU Card for A3000/A4000)

[@ridiculous_gaming]

Stephen Leary, Jay Miner is smiling down on you from the afterlife, for taking care of us Amiga fans; such brilliance.

[@gdonner]

Can't wait for this card; Stephen does awesome work! Great video--thank you!

[@bliskin8847]

Have been eagerly waiting for this product to come out.

[@Andy-xg8wk]

Great vid, as always! Can’t wait for the TF4060 to get released

[@GadgetUK164]

Same here! =D

[@banjoguyollie]

that ST troll :D :D love it

[@GadgetUK164]

😄 Yes, I think it's great!

[@f1lupo]

Love my TF1260 and looking forward to seeing what this new TF4060 can do ❤️

[@Darrenhd2]

Thanks for the video! Looking forward to get my own TF4060!

[@danowood6799]

Been watching the development of this card for some time on the Exxos forums, looking forward to the RC variant giving the old 3000 a big speed boost. Possibly one for the 4000 as well, if I can get the MB up and running again. Thanks for the interesting video.

[@another3997]

As the 060 is running at 50Mhz, you would expect it to be much more than twice the speed of the stock 040, which is only a 25Mhz part. The extra execution units of the 060 should, in theory, give it a huge boost. Today, Amiga users pay silly money for a mid '90s, 32 bit CPU that officially tops out at 75MHz, yet people literally give away old Pentium chips of that era. The 060 compared well with original Pentiums, but nowadays, using WinUAE, even my old single core Atom based netbook outpaces the fastest Amiga, even the excellent Vampire boards. Who'd 'ave thunk it eh? 🙁

[@cugar434]

OHhh I want one cant wait to see it

[@router5840]

Very interesting as usual.

[@a1exh]

Looks very interesting. I'll be watching the TF4060 closely to decide whether or not to repair my CS MKIII or buy a TF4060.

[@davidbentham9586]

You can get datasheet for those flash chips.get the corrct pitch size, loads on ebay or aliexpress. On routers i hack around with, i use a 8 pin adaptor and put a sop-8 socket on the board, then can plug in and out when need to flash. Linux and flashrom program, easy.

[@GadgetUK164]

The TF4060 is released now btw!

[@ridiculous_gaming]

With the rarity and prices of a full 060 these days, an fpga is a logical solution. Simply fantastic engineering!

[@gdonner]

@GadgetUK164: By any chance can you use MuMapROM with the TF4060 to boot from a file-based Kickstart? (i.e. DEVS:Kickstart)? I ask, because not all accelerators can do it (the BFG9060 being one of them)?

[@GadgetUK164]

I am honestly not sure - I would assume yes, but this proto I have may or may not support it. It would be strange for the final 4060 to not support it. The final is still being worked on I think!

[@stephenwhite506]

You can get an inexpensive alligator clip that can clip onto the top of the SOP SMD flash chip that makes reprograming in circuit possible.

[@GadgetUK164]

That wouldnt work on this proto - I think one of the pins its tied high or low when it shouldn't be for programming (if memory serves). I do have some of those clips!

[@tahustvedt]

I usually solder the little PIC's to an adaptor PCB to program them. Can't afford all those big socket thingys for SMD chips. lol

[@flashjazzcat]

Spent several hours trying to install Xilinx USB Platform cable drivers in Ubuntu yesterday and eventually gave up. So I agree with your comments regarding Linux: once everything's set up, it's great, but getting everything set up is another matter entirely if you wander even slightly off the beaten path.

[@GadgetUK164]

LOL - I feel your pain!

[@donpalmera]

You don't need to use the xilinx dongle if you just want to flash an Xilinx chip. You can generate a programming file in ISE then use something like xc3prog with any old JTAG thing that is supported. If you really want to use the Xilinx dongle it's easier to just install ISE in a windows VM.

[@flashjazzcat]

@@donpalmera I ended up installing ISE in a Windows 7 VM, and that pretty much worked. I'd be very interested to read more about a generic solution, though, which doesn't require jumping through such hoops.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

What about solder paste would that not work better.

[@rwxdesigns]

In AIBB why don't you change the test code option to a higher cpu? I always understood it ran the test with instructions for the other cpu selected. So, if you selected 68040, you will probably get even higher results. I'm sure I did this the last time I had my 4000T with Cyberstorm III 060 up and running.

[@GadgetUK164]

I realise that, I just prefer to test against the standard 68K code as most of the games tend to be aimed at the 500.

[@KarlHamilton]

Have you used a BFG9060 too? If so, which would you go for? I know the TF is still under development so it's a tricky question.

[@GadgetUK164]

I have one to build - soon =D The TF4060 is nearly ready I think! I've had no issues with my proto at all, but I think the BFG currently has more features than my TF4060 proto.

[@KarlHamilton]

​@@GadgetUK164keep us posted! Can't believe the prices of 060s too. Two steps forward, one step back fs.

[@ChuckyGang]

Lets hope stephen can get the TF1260 speeds to 4060 soon.

[@TerribleFire]

no pressure

[@ChuckyGang]

@@TerribleFire oh no. not at all

[@GadgetUK164]

LOL =D

[@jjdigitalvideosolutionsllc5343]

I thought the A3000/A4000 cpu slot was limited to 128MB. How does TF4060 work in 256MB?

[@GadgetUK164]

I believe 128MB is local 32bit fast, 128MB ZIII

[@HoldandModify]

This is very cool but it breaks my heart that so much power gets used to run… demos. It’s not just you sir, a lot of folks do that. It’s fine, everyone of course should do what they want but dang it! The power of that chip for 3D rendering, and 2D image processing, is enormous! :)

[@GadgetUK164]

Like all these things though you may as well do image processing on a PC - huge difference in performance (1000 times faster), and easier to use software. The only reason to use the Amiga for that really is nostalgia.

[@HoldandModify]

@@GadgetUK164 absolutely. That’s my entire existence nowadays. I love the challenge of creativity using the tech from “back then.” I’ve made an entire channel around it. ;)

[@DsLmaNiaC]

I mean if people are so passionate about Amiga now, even after almost 40 years since the initial launch, making cpu accelerator cards over cpus that are not produced anymore, imagine what would have happened if Commodore was not just about temporal profit and really progressed the Amiga early like they should do.

[@tekk9995]

First question that comes to mind - haven't seen it all and maybe you answered it in the vid. Does one have to supply the 060 rev. 6 or will it sold with a rev6? Any insight in the process? Thanks

[@GadgetUK164]

The sellers of this (and the TF1260) will likely offer it with LC, RC or no CPU. Assuming they can find stock.

[@tekk9995]

@@GadgetUK164 ty, I have a rev6 here but I do not have the skills to solder it on.

[@tekk9995]

or does it have a socket?

[@tekk9995]

Guess not. Any ETA atm?

[@samt4202]

Looks like it is time to get a CH340A programmer and a 3.3V to 1.8V adapter for it and then you should be able to use flashrom in windows to correctly flash that chip. Depending on which CH340A programmer you get you may need to mod it so that the voltage for the IO pins is set correctly for 3.3V as some of them have it incorrectly hard wired to 5V. Also you will need specific drivers for it to work with flashrom but when it does it is almost like magic. There is even support in certain versions of flashrom for some laptop keyboard controller chips to reprogram them through the keyboard connector on the laptop with the CH340A. I fixed a totally dead laptop by re-flashing the keyboard controller as somehow its contence got corrupted so bad that it would not even show the light on the front that the power adapter was plugged in. Took about 45 min or so to flash the 128Kb EEPROM chip in the keyboard controller as it is connected to a 8051 (I think) CPU inside that accepts the SPI data in from the keyboard connector and translates it to commands to read and write the EEPROM chip. If you need more info don't hesitate to ask.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Were the supports installed when you installed the Accelerator card?

[@mikebetz42]

Where did you get that fan, and how do you have it attached to the CPU? Thermal epoxy?

[@GadgetUK164]

I just got hold of a Pentium fan / heatsink I think! Had to attach with heat sink tape.

[@uberdude2555]

Any word if the TF4060 is compatible with the A4000T?

[@TerribleFire]

no data. no machine to test with.

[@Topaz750]

@@TerribleFire I an help if you want, I own an Escom A 4000T

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

The AMIGA version UNIX System V could make more use of the card that AMIGOS do.

[@another3997]

But if you want to run a proper UNIX type OS, you might as well just use a modern machine. I imagine very little software is compiled to run on Amiga Unix, and even if it was, that software would probably also be available on any platform. There would be nothing particularly 'Amiga like' about it.

[@tahustvedt]

I get 6,5 MB/s disk speed with the T536 in my A500+. :)

[@GadgetUK164]

That's the same bug I hit - 6,553,6.... 16bit limit!

[@tahustvedt]

@@GadgetUK164 That explains it. I tested again now and it showed 3,27 MB first, which seems to be exactly half that, and then 6,5 MB the second time I ran it.

[@andrewenglish3810]

The time to get the TF4060 out is now before PiStorm A3000 and A4000 development is finialized and knock out the 060 cards.

[@GadgetUK164]

That's a good point, but if they don't fix the problem they have with the PiStorm - many wont bother with it. I am still waiting to see if they fix the PiStorm. It doesnt handle interrupts properly I think.

[@andrewenglish3810]

@@GadgetUK164 What problem is there with the PiStorm? I have one in my A2000 (PiStorm 2K) and it works very well, with the PiStorm software and with Emu68 running natively.

[@GadgetUK164]

@@andrewenglish3810 There are many old games just dont work on it. Unless they fixed the issue in the Emu68, but my understanding is it needs a CPLD change. Try Turrican 2, or Catch 'Em - those I am sure didn't work properly. Turrican 2 had weird speed issues, Catch 'Em wouldn't even start.

[@uberdude2555]

If even what you say eventually materialises the TF4060 will remain a popular card for purists, folks who are fans of real 060 CPU architecture but are either struggling to source or justify the £1500 price tag for something like an ageing Cyberstorm MIII. The PiStorm won't damage the TF4060 because it's not really a commercial product like the Vampire boards and Jens Schoenfeld's 060 board for the A1200 which is likely already cancelled. Actually if PiStorm launched tomorrow it might actually help the TF4060 as with more choice out there may lessen demand for full blown 060 processors and bring prices down.

[@another3997]

@@uberdude2555 There's only one problem with your assessment... the number of genuine, working 060 chips is very limited, especially the later revisions. Motorola shifted fabs to the production of Coldfire chips, as the 060 wasn't a viable mass market CPU. Unfortunately Amiga OS doesn't play well with Coldfire. That means you will struggle to find a reliable supplier of used 060 parts, probably only a handful here and there, and prices will be very high, much like the PPC boards.

[@marcobalbo2959]

hello ! Working in A3000T ?

[@TerribleFire]

Works with the A3000 ... no idea on the 3000T

[@retrommodore645]

make also one for cd32

[@GadgetUK164]

There's already one for the CD32 - It's the TF360. Stephen is working on rev 2 of that atm.

[@jauspicios]

The speed drive is to slow…2mb… I already saw 9mb secs with full 060 warp1260

[@GadgetUK164]

Yes, this was a proto before the IDE was addressed!

[@tjlazer71]

MagiC64 Emulator runs much better. You can get it 98-100% with a 68060/66Mhz. Maybe with a frame skip. On Vampire it runs 100% solid all the time.

[@another3997]

Using a high spec, very expensive Amiga to emulate a C64 at NEARLY 100%, or play Quake at 10fps doesn't make any sense. Even a £5 Raspberry Pi Zero will run a C64 emulator perfectly, and will play Quake far better than any Amiga can. Sadly it can also emulate an Amiga too, one faster than an A1200 with an 030 and fast ram. 🙁 A 15 year old PC or laptop will cost peanuts and be a far faster 'Amiga' and more compatible than even a Vampire. I'd still like a 'Vampired' A1200 though. I just need to rob a bank first! 😉

[@tjlazer71]

@@another3997 You don't seem to get the point. We like to tinker with these old machnies and get software working. Seeing a C64 Emulator running full speed on our Amiga is a dream come true, back when we first tried to on our 8MHz Amiga 500. I have several C64's, I don't need to Emulate it on my Amiga. I do it because I can and it's cool.

[@lordxanxi8348]

@@tjlazer71 So true! Emulating a C64 makes more sense on an Amiga, a member of the family, rather than on a RPI or whatever new stuff.

[@lordxanxi8348]

@@another3997 Running Quake or Doom on an Amiga is about revenge. Revenge of the humiliation of John Carmack writing the Amiga can't run Doom.

[@iamdkk]

Shame the audio is missing a channel during the Frontier intro!

[@GadgetUK164]

??? Not that I can hear? At which point?

[@gabrielgamerx14]

Shete❤.....kkkkkkk 🤣🤣🤣

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

It is a shame your programmer didn't support it.

[@tahustvedt]

The A4000 wasn't very impressive for the time, unfortunately. Too bad it went the way it did with Amigas. By '93 more powerful 486's were cheaper.

[@another3997]

True, the A4000 and AGA were rushed designs with too many compromises to please the accountants. The management had no idea what they had with the Amiga, being more interested in PC compatibles.

[@8BitNaptime]

Commodore had a way of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

[@lordxanxi8348]

Yes but the practical interest of the different Amiga models is in 2022 way different than it was in 1993. At the time, the A600 was considered no good compared to the A500 but later it has become the simplier of the two to upgrade with cheap 2,5' IDE drives, PCMCIA CF for fil transfer and PCMCIA NIC. Now that a lot of new hardware has been made for the A500, things are more even. The A4000 seemed poor compared to the A3000 at the time, but now the A4000 is way better to be used and upgraded with no bloody ZIP RAM, enough room to fit the accelerator, no DMA SCSI conflict and more slots and room. I consider the A4000 to be the top of the range in 2022. Pity it has not yet a Vampire card or a TF4060, but it has the BFG9060 already available!

[@domramsey]

It's pronounced Linux, not Linux! 🙂

[@GadgetUK164]

Nah, that's a common misconception! The creator of Unix was Linus Torvalds, Linux is named after him - and if you check pronounciation its Li-nus, therefore Li-nux. Even googles own pronouciation example is wrong imo! I dont conform lol

[@domramsey]

@@GadgetUK164 I've just got one thing to say to that: GIF

[@GadgetUK164]

@@domramsey =D

[@NdxtremePro]

@@GadgetUK164 Wait, Torvalds only created Linux, which is a Unix clone. He had nothing to do with Unix itself, which is older than him. Love the vid.