Gaffer & Gear 159 - Heavy Lights on C Stands

[@fanjan7527]

So few people understand that Gaffering is as much about placing lighting and flags as it is about making sure those things are safe and doesn't smack someone's skull open.

[@xx1simon1xx]

and this is why you HAVE TO work on a real set with a real gaffer/lighting crew before becoming one yourself. if you dont know what is safe and what isnt, you cant do your job, and there is no room for experiments. also one of the first things you need to learn is to tell the dp NO when he requests things that arent safe. most of them arent evil or careless, they just dont know any better.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Fanjan, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@reynoldsc]

I always love the reviews but these 'case studies' you do are so vital for all of us camera/gaffer/grip community. Many thanks!!!

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Chris, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@conrad2nr]

I've been trying to show the merits of a good combo stand vs a c-stand to our local guys and keep getting push back.. Thanks for the vid.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Conrad, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@michaelpujda8407]

The most important videos are not always the most popular, and few people have this sort of knowledge to share. Thank you for focusing our attention to things that matter.

[@huyked]

Wow, the part about the legs folding up when a lot of weight are on the c-stand is eye-opening. Thank you for these amazing warnings!

[@joshbudhanlall5637]

Those legs apart and sandbags were such great demonstrations

[@chriswilson4067]

So glad you swung the light round to the large leg that was giving me anxiety, oh you've swung it back again lol

[@craigieb]

You do an AMAZING job of explaining things to those of us who've been in the business for more than 40 years, but never think about these things because we don't deal with it every day. You're doing a tremendous service to the entire production community. Thank you for all you do!

[@EugeneMaynard]

In my thirty + years of working in Swedish broadcasting I have yet to have seen a C-stand yet alone use one. I am so glad I watched this because I have felt for years that I must be missing out on something but now that feeling has totally gone!😂🙏🏾

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Eugene, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@williamw]

Great video. The exact scenario you describe at the end about the wind tipping the cstand and the legs folding is exactly what happened to me once. Extended C stand holding some diffusion caught wind, legs folded, and the entire thing came crashing down. The extended mast landed exactly where our talent, one of my closest friends, had just been sitting moments before. Major wakeup call that has haunted me for a long time.

[@BenBowmanNYC]

Thanks for this. This is the video I wanted, when I needed it, from the guy I trust. On demand learning.

[@jeyycie3656]

C-stands are fairly common on US shoot's, but here in France (and in most of Europe), we're just not using them, because of the reasons you just mentioned. Steel stands (baby stands) are the norm, and are a lot more versatile and stable on various terrains, after using Combo and wind-up stands. Also, as a side note, It would be great if you could do a video about Long John's stands, it would be pretty helpful for young folk's out there.

[@gaffergear]

Interesting

[@PieroCioffi]

Same in Italy. Shot there after working for a bit in the UK (where a c-stand cart is a must and bare minimum) found surprisingly difficult to get enough c-stands from rentals, who would offer instead lightweight 2 and 3 risers.

[@jeyycie3656]

@@gaffergear Also, where Matthews and Kupo dominate the US market, in Europe it's Manfrotto and Avenger (which is the cine branch of Manfrotto) that are everywhere. There are Matthews steel stands with some rental hourse, but it's mainly the Manfrotto and Avenger catalogue who end's up everywhere. (Inversely, Manfrotto and Avenger are really not that present in the U.S)

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Jeyy, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@mribi]

Thank you so much, these pro tips are way better than product reviews!!

[@tinhuyenpham3739]

Invaluable decision making skills here. Love your work mate.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Tin, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@kristofbarta2964]

I really like my c-stands for product photography. I see it’s not a solution for everything. Thanks for showing the limitations so well!

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Kris, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@zaymax_7]

That 600d facing the wrong way on a c stand gave me anxiety

[@splotchdog]

thanks for the vid. Exactly my question answered / solidified my decission to go with combo stands.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Splotch, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@rayt_visual]

Thank you for the explanation. I’ve actually been buying more Combo Stands over CStands (funny, mainly for the Junior receiver), but great to see sound reasons to why they are better. :)

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Ray, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@linda_lawson]

I can’t tell you how helpful this is. Thank you.

[@bencorwin]

This was exactly my question! Thanks so much!

[@lubanestube]

Bravo majstore! Interesting, as always ...

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Nenad, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@shadowshapers]

Intelligent and vital information. Thanks Andrew for another helpful video. I also love how your audio quality was consistent between your indoor and outdoor shots. That lav was a smart choice to use.

[@tinderbox218]

This is a super-useful topic.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi guys, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@walkmotopov]

Thank you for these videos! really adds to our knowledge in buying stands

[@bernardopinho9179]

First!!! Man I've been trying to investigate this very same issue this past week and had to go around so many places and forums getting some tid bits of information here and there, but you just clear up everything so well here, really appreciate your work man! Thank you!

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Bernardo, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@osoriony]

Thank you very much for your advice and for being so clear. Keep up the good work

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Juan, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@cobymarcum1442]

Andrew. You’re a braver man than me sir. For the heavy light on a c-stand shake test, I would have used something else (less valuable) with similar weight to simulate the swaying light rather than shaking an actual light. 😬😁 I always enjoy your awesome channel. This is not a criticism. It wasn’t my light on the c-stand. 😊 I’m laughing out loud as I imagine walking on set and actually seeing someone doing that with one of my lights. “WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?” Ha ha. If I ever see you on my set doing that with one of my lights and looking at me I’ll know that I’m being trolled by you. 😂 You’re the man Andrew. You’re welcome on my sets anytime as my honored guest. 😊👍

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Coby, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@cobymarcum1442]

@@slideralexa02 The best advice that I can give you is in how you request help. It would be more courteous for you to reach out to people directly through their channel or platform rather than on another person’s channel, in this case Andrew’s channel who I respect. Please contact me directly if you need anything. Thank you and happy filming.

[@slideralexa02]

Great explanation! We love this review. New suscriber from Ecuador 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@EpictheEpicest]

For me, the issue lies with the small LEDs with huge fresnel attachments rather than the stands, as the heaviest part is too far from the center of the stand. A classic tungsten fresnel or LEDs with built-in fresnels are much more compact. I've even used a 25lb mole-richardson leko on a c-stand before, and I'm totally fine with it up to ~15 feet because the heaviest part of the light is still over the center of the stand. I like to tie small weights to the back of Aputure lights because it offsets the weight of the fresnel attachment.

[@tyler0rsak]

Thanks Andrew. Great as always!

[@paulconway1176]

Just as I start buying what I thought was better stands … got a Avenger C-Stand delivery today. Guess I need another stand for a 600d … think I’m going to use this c-stand mostly on bar to fly a NanLite 60 as a rim light out of shot.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Paul, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@melankolikfilms]

Have you considered some sandbag-based exercise videos?

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Jason, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@Praxiszooms]

thank you for that comparison

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Fili, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@andyvan5692]

great safety video, but one issue, if it is unstable, can you , like in a mobile crane, add some clamps up nearer the light, and guy it, aka put some cables down to water bottles or weight bags on the ground, hence increasing stability? , just like the spreaders on yacht rigging, to stop the wobble once you reach a certain height.

[@thedp]

thanks. you should put the legs folding up in front. most folks I tell how easy this can happen don't believe it, until it happens to them, usually with a very overloaded high load. they also don't get how easy kicking a C stand leg can also cause it to fold up and go over.

[@michaelbourquin9814]

Fantastic video.

[@mr.kalife5535]

Great video! Thanks for sharing this info.

[@bp-blackshark]

Thats an american thingy, to adapt the C-Stands into photography lighting stands...mostly with an extension arm WITHOUT any counterweight, lol! That C-Stands was made and used to hold the scrims, flags and diffusion panels for the big Hollywood flood lights...not the lights itself.

[@BushXCGL]

This habit that is supported by the photography community is further perpetuated by Aputure main customer base when they do their demos using only c-stands. Sure they are cheaper, but as this video has shown, they are nowhere as stable. Gaffers(like Andrew) who know their shit, will never put something that heavy on a c-stand.

[@aristotle_4532]

​@@BushXCGL Most cheap stands copy baby stands, not c-stands, so one would expect the upgrade to be a baby stand. The baby is not significantly more expensive than the c-stand for similar maximum height. Baby stands can actually work for photographers and there are standard 450cm versions. Baby stands are still limited to the same fixture weight with c-stands but it's a better design for most people.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Guys, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@tempest63132]

THANK YOU for making this !!!

[@108u9]

Hey Andrew, thanks for the helpful video. It actually helps answer a longstanding question I had been wondering about. Could you do a follow up with regards to booming a light? Think you mention you prefer light mats for that but wondering if booming a 600D type fixture? Also perhaps about proper stable grip for 4x4 to 12x12 butterflies? Much thanks! Btw hope the stolen van case got sorted!

[@slideralexa02]

Hi WL, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@aristotle_4532]

The engineers that know the designs, give us limits in the specifications. If the stand comes from a good manufacturer, we can trust that the specification is based on actual physics. A C-stand is typically a 10Kg 3.0m design. A combo stand is from 25kg 2.0m to 40Kg 4.5m depending on the material, base width and tube specification. The c-stand was meant to be an accessory stand, not a stand for lights.

[@fanjan7527]

Very true. Panalux in Cape Town doesn't refer to C-Stands in their database, they refer to them as Flag-Stands

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Aristotle, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@66Vogelsang]

Very good, sir!

[@tatijaye173]

Question: I'm based in US and I've been taught since day 1 that the weight goes over the large leg. Is that common practice everywhere else? At 0:46, the way Mr. Andrew explains makes me think the weight goes opposite large leg. Disclaimer: I haven't worked anything studio/union backed, just indie stuff so far

[@cfl4286]

Yes. Bag goes on the large leg and the weight of the flag/small light on the stand also goes over the large leg

[@gaffergear]

Problem is, it is exactly counter weighted. As soon as the light is elevated then it is no longer perfect, so it becomes vulnerable to being toppled by the leverage force of the light.

[@pommedapie8450]

I work in France and we have stands called "pied de mille" which we use very often, they are similar to C stands except the feet are not this 3 tier system but like a combo stand system. I've never understood why they weren't more widespread in the US and other countries and why you used the C stands instead which we almost never use. Maybe because there is much more indoor studio production so they are okay to use there?? What are the advantages you find to C stands ? I would be interested because I cant really find any ! I love your videos by the way they are some of the best on KZbin !

[@jcraw722]

C stands are good when using an arm because you can maneuver around basically anything

[@Menapho]

Excellent!!

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Menapho, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@Menapho]

@@slideralexa02 Hi, I don’t know that I’ve seen any of your work?

[@slideralexa02]

@@Menapho we are a new crew from Ecuador South America. kzbin.info/door/eVfsvdiD0zYHYcrm0jCwgA

[@gdrriley420]

More and more, it seems like I should mostly get steel baby stands and then move right to combos, with a few C-stands for flags, nets and the like.

[@JB-xg9ib]

What stand would be most appropriate for a 300dii with modifiers?

[@gaffergear]

As a gaffer I carry a variety of stands for different situations. When I rent out a 300d I ask what they are using it for, is it indoors or outdoors, is it going high? Most times it low, indoors with a 3ft dome. In which case I give them a light weight aluminium stand and one shot bag If it's being used outside, through a window as sunlight, or high up, I give them a steel combo and two shot bags. So it totally depends on the job.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi JB, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@pizzomedia7261]

Hi, what about a mathews junior roller stand extender with the 600d, fresnel and barn doors? The base is very wide and rated for 55lbs, but it doesn’t have the high side supports of a traditional combo.

[@gaffergear]

I haven't used one so I can't say. I've only seen them used in studios for large frames.

[@pizzomedia7261]

@@gaffergear thanks, what about a low boy or a baby stand for this setup? Would it be safe?

[@tommcgoldrick4903]

@@pizzomedia7261 A low boy will definitely be safe. It would have to be a very solid baby stand. I'd personally go with a combo stand to be sure.

[@Justin_Allen]

Great video. What wind-up stand do you use / recommend? For a Nova or 600x light.

[@bp-blackshark]

With that safety feature above the gear housing, it must be a Kupo wind-up stand in this video. He did a video about that wind-up stand in the past.

[@Justin_Allen]

@@bp-blackshark I THINK that would be the Kupo 3-Section Wind-Up Stand with Auto Self-Lock stand for $395.00 I have that in my list to buy but was concerned that it only handles 66 lbs. I've never done one, but I am not sure that it would hold a menace arm with a Nova or 600X with a dome. More higher rated stands cost more than a $1,000, which is tough to swallow right now.

[@bp-blackshark]

@@Justin_Allen Just look at the diameter from the center-tubes...that will make the difference. That $1000+ stands will also be a lot heavier. 1000+ Bucks might sound like a lot of money, but it will sound a lot more expensive, to replace a "crash landed" Nova or 600X plus lightshaper and probably the cheap stand too.

[@Justin_Allen]

@@bp-blackshark lol I completely agree. That's why I haven't done a menace arm, or pulled the trigger on a 66lb or 88 lbs capacity stand. I truly care about safety.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Justin, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@MarcoZhang689]

Yooo, always enjoy your vids! Westcott just released an optical spotlight mount that’s only rated for 100w continuous COBs, would it be a bad idea to pair it with any aputure fixtures (300x)? It’s interesting because it has an EF lens mount, is that just a gimmick or is it actually useful? Would you happen to be able to do review of it? Thanks again for your vids, Cheers!

[@bp-blackshark]

The Westcott optical spotlight mount is identical with the Jinbei DP-Ø6 optical spot or with some PIXAPRO optical spots. That one are built for strobes and LED COB´s for photography work. Usually, the modelling lamp from the strobes is restricted to be below 150W, but there is no restriction for a 40W LED modelling lamp. You also should make some breaks with strobes, to give them time to cooling them down. LED COB´s for photography work will work fine, because you will not try to make a blockbuster movie in one take with them. Usually, if you have got your pictures, you will turn them off. But if you want to have a projection spot for a big movie project for your aputure LED COB´s, go for the aputure projection spot attachment...it´s much bigger, and it is built for the aputure LED COB´s.

[@aristotle_4532]

What do you want to achieve? Distance, circle size, color capability, lux output at that point, gobos, beam shape (flat,fresnel style,smooth wash)?

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Marco, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@96froger]

Not specific to c-stands but 600d + F10 I am not as familiar with the 600d but could you not invert the light on the yolk so light is upside down. With the F10 wouldn't this offset the center of gravity closer to the middle of the stand

[@gaffergear]

The light would be upside down and not cool correctly unfortunately

[@offcenterconcepthaus]

Yep. Just trying to hang one off on a grip arm is dicey.

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Alyosha We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@RayValdezPhotography]

yeah i had to learn light stand physics the hard way. This is a much needed channel. I usually dont have time to teach my assistants when i do jobs. I might send them to some of your videos. Now I have a quick question. When you have a heavy light on the stand and when it wobbles, will the stand break or wear out from wobble or it is cool?

[@gaffergear]

From leaening the hard way I can tell you that if the wind is constant from the same direction with a lot of force, it can bend the tube and you can't lower the stand. Man that was a bad day on set!

[@RayValdezPhotography]

@@gaffergear ok got you. thanks.

[@dpixvid]

Many thanks!

[@artobzor]

Thank you so much. Wont you give some recomendations of chosing combo stand type by material? Aluminium or steel. I m tallking mostly about 300d and 600d.... and of cause booming 600d Last time we intuitivly choose aluminium for 300d staying on 2.5 meeters with softboxes And steel combo stand for puting avenger junior boom on full lengh with 600d and china ball Only to balance a boom there was a 4 or 5 sandbags used Then 3 sandbags on a legs It was really heave to put it up it down but there was no wind-up in a rental...so Can you analyze mistakes in this rigging aspecially in safety. I see couple more people of your viewers who was interested in the lesdon of booming (600d for ex)

[@gaffergear]

Sorry, I thought I had responded. Definitely a wind up for a 600D, I would go a menace arm over a boom. The manufacturer specifications on booms don't take into account maximum distance and additional counter weights required.

[@garrrbarr]

So are c stands are just worse than light stands, assuming they have equal thickness and height, and that you don't need to raise a leg or stack them really close to one another?

[@gaffergear]

@@garrrbarr yes

[@ROBERTPOKONSKI]

Whats up with these sandbags on c stands. A lot people such as yourself put the bag on the tall leg. But now I have seen people put it on the small leg so the bag hits the ground so it don't slide off the stand leg ???? don't understand

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Robert, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@AaronReactivated]

Combos only on my truck. Too many advantage of combos to even bother with c stands for lights/flags for me . Just so damn pricey

[@slideralexa02]

Hi, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@OppaiDaisukiful]

what if we use the reflector instead of the fresnel f10 set ? is it still dangerous to use c stand in full height ?. Anyway thank you for information sir, these kind of info is keeping people safe at sets. you are truly like my online mentor haha

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Gerong, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@09591000]

Елки палки. Удивительно как много нам впихнули в голову в СССР. Спасибо.

[@Skopefilms]

Isn't your C-Stand on the right side? The taller leg has to be on the weight side so you can't push your light just with your little finger.

[@gaffergear]

That's my point, I'm showing how easy they can be pushed over. If you use these as a light stand, sooner or later someone will pan the light and it won't be over the large leg.

[@Skopefilms]

@@gaffergear Oh ok sorry I mist that point! Thanks for the comparison.

[@rumorscameras]

melbourne is beautiful.

[@LangstoniusRex]

I now feel like less of a filmmaker because i have no real combo stands :|

[@slideralexa02]

Hi Lang, We are a new crew from Ecuador, please We need your opinions about our videos. Thanks 🇪🇨🇪🇨🇪🇨

[@artobzor]

People here continue to write that they dont use c-stands I m not in a industry but... lets try to recreate the situation befor the LED era. What was the soft source ? Mostly 4x4 KinoFlo.... so what was the stand ? C-stand on a regular hight mostly. Then what... a smallest sources to "draw" with Dedolight... that was ok with the smallest stands Or if you need to set them as kicker and " boom it a bit ,"you can use c-stand with o one or two extention hands And even at that time no one use them for a heavy frensel lights or hmi... or So

[@timdanyo898]

Shouldn’t the sand bag be touching the ground on the c-stand leg?

[@leoquesto9183]

You want it hanging toward the ground. If it's partially resting on the ground, you're not using the full weight of the bag.

[@aristotle_4532]

If a bag is touching the ground, it's resting on the ground to a degree, and not fully on the stand as it should. If the bag is very rigid, it may be fully resting on the ground and rather useless from a stability point of view until stability is lost. It will still help then, but it will not be as effective and it may be too late.

[@timdanyo898]

@@aristotle_4532 ok.. that makes sense.. but a connection to the ground that is not causing play on the leg is preferable. Imho

[@aristotle_4532]

​@@timdanyo898 That does not offer an advantage in such a structure. The leg contact point to the ground is at a greater distance to the center of gravity compared to the point of contact of the bag to the ground. The contact is also not rigid enough to offer support and if it was, the stability would still not be improved because 3 points can always hit a flat floor, but more than 3 points will typically not. Sand bags should only be used for weighting.

[@timdanyo898]

@@aristotle_4532 that makes sense thanks! Someone gave me bogus advice a while back.

[@BampFilm]

Sorry man, literally have the 600d facing the wrong way on that C-Stand, weight over the leading leg… this is 101 basics Ok… take that back, commented to soon… it’s just one of my pet peeves

[@MrDvaz]

sorry but the light on the c-stand is positioned the wrong way ! I expected a little more coming from you!

[@gaffergear]

@@MrDvaz that's done deliberately to show the dangers of a c-stand. , at 53 seconds I explain the correct way.