Galion TS120 vs. TS120SE - is the SE worth the extra?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thank you, Harley, for making this video, I get a lot of emails asking about the differences, and this video is just perfect.

[@PearlAcoustics]

You’re very welcome Thomas. In fact I was also very curious about the differences. There are so many amplifiers with ‘SE’ options, it can be confusing, so when getting the chance to hear them for myself, well I couldn’t resist it!

[@haraldhommel2369]

Thank you Harley for this comparison. Although you admit this is not professional quality, I could certainly hear a difference using my headphones. I thought the bass became more articulate with the SE model and improved again with the Shuguang tubes. The singer's voice also lost a bit of shrillness I noticed in the first recording, based on my older ears. Great content as always!

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thank you!

[@MrRonnmaui]

Thanks for the insight. I have monitored these amps since they came out. Everyone seems pleased. Plus, tube amps double as heaters in the winter months.

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

YES ...............they contribute to the heating bill .........and the pleasure of listening to good music in the evening .

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks for your comment m. Indeed, they make great heaters snd winter is coming soon!

[@aryanazih8867]

Thanx for the videos , you always deliver what you are supposed to deliver 🎉🎉❤

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks! That’s do nice of you.

[@pew32]

You don’t see many reviews for the non se version I would still go for the se as I have heard it

[@2HatHudders]

Great video as always!

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks!

[@SlowCarToChina]

My God, the difference between the standard and SE versions is profound! Almost like a stereo widening effect had been applied. 😮

[@rw3915]

The SE plus premium KT88 bottles are something else. The trumpets, they have definition, and the reed at the mouthpiece can now be heard. The singer's voice, instead of a singular wall of sound, the multiple and concurrent components making the whole of her voice can now be heard clearly. Wow. That's excellent. Hey Thomas, please make for us, an all out assault preamp that will sink a Audio Research Ref 10 or the top dog Pass Labs XS preamp, please! Thanks for your hard work. 🙏

[@darrensworkshop6783]

I prefer the TS120 standard valves from my headphone listening. Thanks again for the content.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks!

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🤗THANKS HARLEY, WE APPRECIATE ALL YOUR INSIGHTS 🧐 and it is always a matter of taste 😋 some love ❤️ their pie warm,ala mode with a cherry 🍒 on top some others like it plain and etc.with options, but what if our taste changes ,WITH THE GALION AMPS…YOU HAVE MANY OPTIONS AT YOUR CONVENIENCE 🤷‍♂️💚💚💚

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thank you. Very kind. Indeed, there are so many options with the Galion.

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

It looks like a great amplifier

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

remarkably, the sonic character DOES shift from sample to sample, with increasing refinement at the peaks of high and middle frequencies

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

*listening through passive loudspeakers

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

Amazing speakers

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks!

[@henkbogers8366]

Hi Harley, thanks for the briljant comparison. Ubelieveble what a difference in sound. EVen on my tablet you could hear the difference between the standart tubes and the Yushuan tabes. I think i am going to try them on my Audio Innovation tube ampiflier. In the past i had Yushuan tubes but Ed de Jong, one of the inventors of this ampifler, could not get them anymore. So good to know that they are on the market again. Do you know how i can get them? Thanks already Henk from Holland

[@A_RosnerNZ]

Can't beat a nice tube amp particularly with octal tubes. I'd be really interested in a KT66 version of this one, there's many schools of thought that the "KT" series tubes were the best at the KT66 and each increasing number has sounded worse. Not sure I subscribe to that myself, but it'd be interesting if they did it to compare...

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks for your comment

[@tango_gru]

Thank you , A bit curious to know how do they fare when compared with Decware Zen TORII MK5 ???

[@PearlAcoustics]

That’s difficult. The Torri is very spacious and delicate and yet detailed. The Galion SE is more robust, more solid. It’s a bad analogy, sorry!

[@tango_gru]

@@PearlAcoustics Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Have a blessed day

[@marcostefanoboietti6013]

Which CD lector do you suggest with these ampli please?

[@PearlAcoustics]

Hi, have you seen my series on CD players? To be honest, I don’t think it makes a big difference. Go for a machine that you like the look of, that you will feel comfortable operating and listening to, and if you are not 100% happy with the sound, you can always use the digital out and match it to a different DAC. But go for something well built mechanically. Even secondhand, should be fine.

[@marcostefanoboietti6013]

Thanks a lot for your wise suggestion!

[@Larwiz]

I gave it a few listens, and what is most clear to me is that both amps sound better with the Shuguang tubes. And I know very little about tubes, and have never owned a tube amplifier. But especially the horns on both amps improved. They sounded more vivid and detailed with the Shuguang tubes. I may need to give it a few more listens, but if I had to make a decision right now, I would probably lean towards the standard edition with the Shuguang tubes.

[@PearlAcoustics]

👍

[@scruffy8861]

Went back and forth paying strict attention to the vocal and heard a fuller more natural, more pleasing tone with the TS120 and KT88's. Not sure whether i would be better off with the TS120 or TS120SE as my speakers are plenty strong as is on the low end but could use some taming on the high end where i would want the refinement of the TS120SE.😗

[@PearlAcoustics]

@@scruffy8861 glad to hear the comparison exercise for you was useful

[@geraldchristensen2826]

Vinyl on your deck? Sibelius speakers? I'm going to have to put in some overtime..... :o

[@PearlAcoustics]

😀👍

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

The TS120Se is worth the extra premium. The difference is noticeable. Upgrading the tubes have less impact.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Has anyone measured these amps?

[@tothemax324]

What do you want imperial or centimetres?

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

@@tothemax324 You screwed that up ☺️

[@tothemax324]

@@crazyprayingmantis5596 Went over your head 😂

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

@@tothemax324 No it didn't 😂

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

@@tothemax324 Nup

[@BillyKueekSG]

I wonder if I can use the Hifiman Susvara headphones directly to the speakers’ output? Also, I intend to get a pair of bookshelves in my small room so I can use this amp as well. If so, which speakers would be recommended? My room size is only 4.25 L x 3.15 W x 2.48 H in meters (13’11” x 10’4” x 8’1”) with a work desk at one end and 2 rows of bookshelves (30cm / 11.8” depth) along the length. Please give me your recommendations.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Hi, connecting a pair of headphones to the amplifier output is absolutely not advised. As for your loudspeakers. That’s a big topic that I cannot really cover here. However, we will be making a video on building a desktop system.

[@BillyKueekSG]

@@PearlAcoustics many Hifiman Susvara headphone users use Benchmark ABH-2, First Pass and other amps to drive the Susvara. So, I was just wondering about the possibilities

[@PearlAcoustics]

@@BillyKueekSG ok, that’s beyond my experience. Technically, it will work but I find it rather unusual, why not stick to a headphone amplifier driven by the line out of the Galion?

[@BillyKueekSG]

@@PearlAcoustics appreciate you taking time to reply, thank you! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 My room size is considered very small right? I use several “flagship” headphones such as ZMF Atrium (Dynamic open-back), Sennheiser HD800S (Dynamic open-back) and the Hifiman Susvara (Planar magnetic open-back) so I expect the pair of speakers I’d like to get must perform. I can probably make space for speakers on stand. I will be using Gustard R26 R2R DAC, an AKM-chipped DAC or iFi DAC. If I can find an amp that can serve both purposes, it’ll be great. Otherwise, it is fine too as I’d ordered a headphone amp specially for the HFM Susvara.

[@PearlAcoustics]

@@BillyKueekSG your room is not that small. Feel free to reach out to us via our website and one of the team might help you further

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

HI Harley . For fun.......indeed ........WHY not ! Yes , there are difference even on YT..... for what's it's worth to hear them and value on YT. I suppose the result my be different with a digital ot analog source . In this situation , on YT .....your recording and your room ambiance .......as well as the sound nature of the laptop/computer used....................under these conditions I enjoy without hesitation the TS120 with the Shuguang tubes..........very reveraling ( for me ) when listening to the tempo , tonality and the especialy the voice............... Whatever results may differ when listening directly to the same set ups in your listening room . Kind regards

[@PearlAcoustics]

Hi Frank. Glad you enjoyed it. Indeed I used the digital version (for convenience)

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

Indeed I enjoyed ...........I suspected digital . have a nice day Harley .....sun is shining !@@PearlAcoustics

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

Maybe the most important obsevation to comment on ............... Is that these speaker are ....VERY ...... REVEALING to what you feed them , be it the electronics , the cables /IC wiring and don't forget the nature of the source as well as the the recording !

[@PearlAcoustics]

You know them well… 😀

[@revelry1969]

Cool video and production. What is your daily driver amp. I see a musical fidelity? Just wondering. Will you keep one of these to use?

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks. In the listening room, we have many different amplifiers for visitors try out. I will be keeping the TS120SE. The Musical fidelity M8 is great for the summer as it does not get hot like the class A amplifiers.

[@rasardo1]

KR Audio KT88 tubes, made in Europe, are among the best out there. You really should try.

[@rasardo1]

@@harrypeters6870 , I have a quartet at home and I can assure you that they make a huge diference on my Fezz Audio Supertitania.

[@decemberek]

Thank you for the video. Do you prefer personally Galion or Decware you reviewed recently?

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

They do not compare ..........dependant on the system........what is better apples or pears ?

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks for your question. They are so different, it’s like comparing a modern car with a classic car. It really depends on the system I would put them in.

[@simonmarsden66]

I'm not keen on the standard valves, I find them too bright

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

................and it is not their only problem...............

[@simonmarsden66]

@@frankgeeraerts6243 would certainly get listener fatigue

[@Leo-Crespi]

👍

[@scottlewis815]

I’m thinking a better quality song would make the comparison easier

[@PearlAcoustics]

Interesting, what would you have suggested?

[@henkbogers8366]

Yushan is of course Shuguan

[@matytinman]

It is very evident that both amplifiers are greatly improved with Shuguang KT88 tubes. TS120SE with 'standard' PSVANE KT88 tubes, I think there are a problem with the voice, unreal. You can buy the normal version and change after the capacitors for the same ones as the SE or better/different ones. But first the tubes!

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

AGREE with you....

[@FrouzakisGeorge]

Always through KZbin ... I thought that the Shuguang KT88 had an unpleasant ring to them for my ears. Not very objective I know ....

[@jcisme]

How do these compare to the Decware you recently acquired ?

[@PearlAcoustics]

Hi, thanks for your question. Technically, they compare very well. However they gave a different character. There is something about the Torri that engages me. But this is a personal thing. The Galion is roughly the same price but has loads of useful features and a remote!

[@jcisme]

@@PearlAcoustics Thank you kind sir..

[@PearlAcoustics]

@@jcisme you’re welcome

[@CohibaJoe]

Decware, USA Made and Point-to-Point wiring = Old World proven sound. Next caller.

[@Audfile]

On my system the SE was clearly superior by a large margin, took 3 seconds to realize it.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks for your input

[@jungtarcph]

On my Lenovo ThinkPad the SE is much better ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@PearlAcoustics]

😀

[@alstonmaccow9386]

You could be right but here is my problem. This amp is only reviewed by Thomas friends.There is not much talk about this product. It my look good now but happens when manufacturers starts to produce their own amps again. For similar money I can buy tube amp from America decware Zen tube (a tube amp you recently reviewed )with longer warranty

[@Pete.across.the.street]

Who it's reviewed by doesn't effect the sound. Who do you need to talk about it? How many amps have you needed warrenty repairs on?

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thank you for your comment. I fully understand where you are coming from but maybe a little more explanation might be useful? Thomas has very deservedly built a trusting relationship between himself and his audience, however, he has also won the trust and respect of many of his fellow KZbin reviewers. So I personally think it incorrect to define his other reviewers as ‘friends’. We are colleagues with a respect for each other and our collective differences. I like to think that I speak about the Galion with the same independence that I do for Lyngdorf, Sugden or any other manufacturer. This is also, in part, why I recorded some in-room playback, so that people can judge for themselves. As for the warranty, these sort of amplifiers tend to be very reliable and if they go wrong, even many years after a company ceases trading, they are rather easy for a local engineer to repair. On your other topic, the Decware and the Galion are two totally different kinds of machines, offering very different solutions to a similar challenge. I hope that helps a bit?

[@volkhardruhs7662]

I really wonder. It’s just fun. It’s just KZbin. I listen with normal B&W headphones. And still…I mean to hear the differences. And so I wonder. Imagination? What would it be in a real hearing session. And yes. Even on KZbin I could in a test (by Rick Benato) I recognize the difference between guitar strings 8 to 13 for an electric or 10 to 14 on an acoustic guitar. And again I wonder. Can I trust myself and my hearing? And no. Sadly I am not blessed with an absolute hearing.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Don’t worry. None of us has perfect hearing. The thing is our brains are truly wonderful. They are the perfect DSP processors. The hear, compute, adapt and still send the results to the orbitofrontal cortex of our brains. The part that rewards us with pleasure! Thanks for your comment

[@ImHavingaCoronary]

The vocals are "really in" the music with the SE.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Thanks for your comment

[@Jil8840]

There is something seriously wrong with the SE amp. It sounds very bad. It sounds very bright and all the instruments are glued to the left channel........!!!!

[@PearlAcoustics]

That’s strange it didn’t sound like that in the listening room.

[@78sound]

guys I'm his age...our hearing is compromised... I challenge him to do a high-frequency test to see how high he can hear. not hating but truth. We have hard of hearing people selling us expensive audio equipment.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

Apart from being a speaker designer, he's also a recording engineer, with as much or more listening experience than any of us, whereas your notion that treble extension is what makes or breaks hearing ability is utterly simplistic. Do you realize that most professional musicians (if indeed we're talking about the appreciation of music and not a sales pitch for hearing aids) are hard of hearing especially in the treble (the joke goes that in the orchestra pit, the viola players are all deaf because they're sitting right in front of the piccolos), and yet their lifetime experience is what gives us the music we love and listen to? If all you want to know is whether a tube amp's output transformer is linear, free from saturation and whether its resonance frequency is sufficiently removed from the audible range, that can be measured. Not much else of musical value can.

[@PearlAcoustics]

Hi. Thanks for your comment. You’re absolutely right about my high frequency hearing. Thats why I have a team of young people in the business. However, I can still place microphones and make high quality recordings, inspiring the musicians to reach their full potential. But I always have a younger pair of ears in the room. I can still enjoy music as well as anyone else and the one I thing I never try to do is to sell anything. All I am doing here is taking about my interpretation of two amplifiers and presenting some evidence in a non scientific manner, for the enjoyment of others. I have no financial benefit from making these videos.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

@@PearlAcousticsBesides, the main reason why audio equipment is designed to be broadband is not because most instruments play that high into the treble (even if some do), but because it's the technical equivalent to e.g. an amplifier being fast-settling (aka "sounds fast") whilst guaranteeing phase linearity in the midrange (aka "sounds natural" and "spacious" etc.), plus we can hear intermodulation within our hearing range of higher frequencies even if we cannot hear the respective frequencies (anymore) themselves. The bottom line is, even from a purely technical perspective, when it comes to the correlation of measurements and sonics, experience is key.

[@mikelanier5617]

Thanks, but I'm old and prefer to get audio information from those who have more experience overall than specific high frequency hearing abilities. Young reviewers have never even heard the song he is playing 😂 so I'll trust older ears anyday 🤷