Irish Historians on The Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921-22

[@mornamckittrick2339]

This is a very useful and manageable discussion for students of the period from articulate historians. Thank you. I tutor CCEA students online.

[@tomredaintdead9575]

UNITED WE STAND

[@MackerelCat]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@nicholasperry2380]

Less than an hour and I realise that what we're taught in UK schools isn't that balanced or accurate. Very interesting and civil discussion. Any recommendations for further reading please?

[@johnnotrealname8168]

This is not mentioned at all in British schools unless you mean G.C.S.E. and A-Level.

[@markrichmond4243]

The TDs in the Dail had to recognise that they held far more radical views than the general population

[@chrismccartney8668]

Very interesting bearing in Anglo Irish Agreement plus Brexit to see how the Original Agreement came about as an English man with an Irish Name....

[@tomredaintdead9575]

I would wiggle. Im the progeny of an irish man! As are many millions over here. Support your brothers

[@Johnnyfive55]

The number of counties should have been the negotiation. They should have pushed back on 6 counties

[@johnnotrealname8168]

They were convinced the Boundary Commission could deal with it.

[@jamesdolan4042]

Keep in mind also that the Ulster Unionist had been agitating towards separation from the remainder of Ireland since at least the 1880s. Lord Randolph Churchill famously said in 1886 'Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right in relation to the Repeal of the Home Rule Act Then there was the Ulster Covenant where 500,000 signatories signed with their blood to remain part of the UK. That occured in September 1912. Then Ulster Protestants showed unusual fealty to the British Crown by sending all their young men to France to fight and die in WW1 circa 1914. So prior to commencement of the Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations in 1921 a Parliament of Ulster had already operational. So it would nigh impossible for the Irish delegation to have any power of negotiation on Ulster.

[@davidgreen6490]

Does Irish history have anything that does not involve England?

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Considering the affinity of the two, no. After 1949 though there is no association.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@johnnotrealname8168 Absolute bollocks! You only have to look at the anti Brexit channels on KZbin to see the Irish obsession.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@davidgreen6490 Well inasmuch as they share a border, I thought you meant whether Britain has any interest or legal right to interfere in Irish politics. They do not. In any case, the obsession is not with the Edit2: "Brexit" side, they have been wanting Brexit done for a while now. If you mean Northern-Ireland then Good Friday Agreement Edit: (1998). Edit2: Oh! You mean the anti-brexit side?! Oh yeah I agree they keep banging on about Ireland but not because they want to control it but the opposite.

[@TheAnthraxBiology]

Prior to 1169 most stuff has no relation to England, but after most stuff is related. Gaelic Ireland still continued to exist as a separate entity but of course it regularly interacted with Anglo-Norman Ireland. That doesn't negate the fact that Gaelic Ireland made its own developments regardless of English presence however.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@TheAnthraxBiology Thats the point, prior to 1169 there was no such place as "Ireland". It was a collection of over 200 kingdoms know as "Tuaith" The English Normans actually created ireland as an entity. There is an argument that the Tuaith did have alligence to an overall monarch, but it was more like the British commonwealth today all have Charles as their king but being completely different countries, In fact, if the English Normans had not arrived in Ireland in 1169, there would be at least three, possibly four different countries there today, just as there are in Britain, all with different versions of the Old Irish language..

[@noelryan6341]

All of Ireland's modern 'TROUBLES' stem from the dismissal of the December 1918 General Election Results overwhelmingly won by, but ignored by Britain, Pro-Independence parties. So much unnecessary trouble and strife that dominated thereafter!

[@illyboulder2557]

Do the Anglo Irish still own ireland?

[@Boatman607]

Definitely not 😊

[@patrickyoung3503]

Please could you point the way forward to leave on our island

[@tomredaintdead9575]

I have to say, being the son of a Galway man, that the irish have a wonderful use of the beautiful language and are the world champions at talking about absolutely nothing………………………😂

[@jimbobjimjim6500]

The English can talk and talk, without saying anything......Still cant figure out how they do it......The Irish are great talkers in that they are very interesting to listen too.......The people in this video are historians, and if your not into Irish history, you will find it boring.

[@jamesdolan4042]

You must be disappointed.

[@markalexwhite]

Now I know why Ferriter has been shaving his head for years. He has a really long head which looks even longer with hair! 🙂

[@theknowledge.6869]

Turned out to be a Bad Treaty for Everyone = = Irish and British.

[@RobertK1993]

British mainly lol 🤣 sonkuch for the Glorious Revolution.

[@glen7318]

How?

[@franciskeogh5027]

Very clever getting the Irish to kill one another they knew allong

[@AJ_real]

They should never signed the Treaty. Look at all the trouble it caused, the Brexit problems, The Troubles. They should have kept going until we got the whole island.

[@RobertK1993]

Only option other was civil war between Irish Roman Catholics and Ulster Protestants very terrible one Brits would have just watched on

[@sands7779]

Michael Colins made decision based on his knowledge including lack of amunition pipeline and public appetite for fighting. They were threatened with war. We are great armchair generals when we don't have to put our own lives on the line

[@markalexwhite]

They had about a week of fight left in them - they had no choice!

[@glen7318]

The Irish side was almost out of ammuntion, the problems between N Ireland and the rest of it, could not be solved easily and the British were not going to coerce the unionists, and it would not have done any good if they had

[@TroyaE117]

Who are this "we" you talk about?

[@tomredaintdead9575]

Come on . Its history. What about today?

[@Jcolbert123]

Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it ~Winston Churchill (wrong see below)

[@johnnotrealname8168]

​@@Jcolbert123He definitely did not say that.

[@Jcolbert123]

@@johnnotrealname8168 You're right, I googled it. It was philosopher George Santayana (you could have also provided the corrected information). Thank you for pointing this out, I had always heard it attributed to Churchill

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@Jcolbert123 I could have if I knew who sayed it but it was definitely not Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill.

[@jamesdolan4042]

I think you probably don't like history. When I went to school I was not taught history like where circumstances, personalities, geography etc. mattered. I was just given facts and dates. The way history is portrayed in this presentation is fascinating in my opinion.

[@tomredaintdead9575]

Its 100 years ago . Surely you can move on?

[@glen7318]

If you dont want to know about history, dont watch a history video

[@Albert-Arthur-Wison225]

Ruined, for me, by the two blokes, especially the old chap, perennially cutting in,talking over each other, mumbling and nutter in in a constant background track of pointless, annoying ‘ confirmatory ‘ waffle ,…” Mm,..mm,..yes,..mm,..right,..yes…”.

[@tomredaintdead9575]

UNITED WE STAND

[@beaglaoich4418]

Yes you’re right we should have a United ireland

[@TroyaE117]

@@beaglaoich4418 so how are you going to manage that? By coercion?

[@beaglaoich4418]

@@TroyaE117 in the same way the union is currently maintained-through consent. I think it should be a union of Ireland but that doesn’t mean I not anyone else should dictate to anyone what political arrangements between these islands there should be only through the result of the ballot box

[@johnnotrealname8168]

​@@beaglaoich4418When you realise unionists have a point, this position is the only right one.