The Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations under the magnifying glass - Michael Portillo & Dr Marie Coleman

[@Dechieftian]

tremendously insightful. A fascinating part of the beginning of the Irish state. Dr Coleman has without doubt researched the bejesus out of this thing and it shows - mightily. I really liked the perspective of Mr. Portillo with his background as a senior British cabinet minister for war in addition to his British perspective at the time of the Treaty when Britain was at the height of it's dominance as an imperial power. The elements at play within the context of the British Empire were key considerations for the British negotiations - I think well understood by Collins and not at all by DeValera.

[@estocadatx8172]

Or Dev knew exactly what was achievable, and sent Collins as the fall guy, which cost Collins his life in the end?

[@JCoronaBrownie]

Both perspective statements posted above are valid & appreciated

[@NikoHL]

Portillo has a decent grasp of Irish history and his presentation of the British mindset in these negotiations is interesting.

[@jplb96]

Collins wanted to be involved but probably not as a key or The key negotiator of Irish side. De Valera's position was bafflingly wrong and the excuses he gave til the end of his life were weak. He should have been there and his main issue with the compromise was that it wasn't his compromise.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Quite honestly, as much as I admire the man I have to agree. Éamon de Valera was a good negotiator and as his subsequent dealings with Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill prove an adroit politician. Not being there was just stupid. On the last part, I am surprised a man like de Valera would be Anti-Treaty but he chose his bed.

[@anthonysullivan3238]

Excellent discussion. I'd like not to like Michael Portillo because of his politics, but I do.

[@francesdoyle1508]

Same; he seems to be a dignified, moral person and a knowledgeable man, who researches until he knows his stuff.

[@sands7779]

very interedting

[@Celtic2Realms]

It was said by speakers on this video and others on the 1921 Treaty that the British side knew what they wanted but the Irish had different opinions and no set shopping list. In the Brexit talks would could say the roles were reversed in that Europe knew what it wanted and the British did not. Europe had to ensure a deal which wouldn't cause other countries to break away just as the British in 1921 had to safeguard other countries from breaking away. Nice discussion. Nice to see both sides

Except there's no danger of any other country leaving the EU because the EU never invaded anywhere. The disastrous terms of brexit were entirely the work of the english.

[@tommygunhunter]

Class comment.

[@carlbyronrodgers]

Enjoyable.

[@ronalddunne3413]

LOL, a lesbian and a homosexual going on about Catholic Ireland. That's funny.😂 The signers to the side are very distracting. If one cannot hear surely they can read the captions? Anyway, an interesting discussion. Enjoyed! Some historians have suggested that De Valera wasnt shot in the aftermath of Easter 1916 because he was in fact an American citizen and the Brits didn't want to P O any more Americans during the Great War than they already had done. Oddly enuff, many German and Irish-Americans opposed entering the war on Britain's side. 1916 was a critical year, and the Brits needed the food and war supplies sent from USA, and hoped to get America to enter the war against Germany.

[@carmelmulroy6459]

Being gay and being a cross dresser who's into little boys are not the same thing at all

[@carmelmulroy6459]

lol

[@carmelmulroy6459]

What a top notch guy 😂. I think he was straight though most men who are into cross dressing and pedophilia are straight dudes. Aren't us women lucky

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@freebeerfordworkers It depends on how you interpret the poem. If taken literally, it is also translated from Gaelic, then yeah it is really weird but for example "He who has my secrets Is not fit to touch you" suggests it has a different meaning.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@freebeerfordworkers I highly doubt this. Accusing him of being a Cross-Dresser would have been an easy way for the British to discredit him. Margaret Mary Pearse revered her brother and wanted his legacy intact so again doubt. Furthermore, the Church was not Nationalist (Neither was Ireland in general.), she fought for Home Rule and the Land Acts e.t.c. but independence was definitely not on the agenda. On the homosexual issue, I doubt it again and I would add that a man as devout as he was perhaps vowed to be celibate (Not impossible.).

[@illyboulder2557]

Do the Anglo Irish still own ireland?

[@woohoohaha7607]

No

[@illyboulder2557]

@@woohoohaha7607 Can you prove that?

[@woohoohaha7607]

@@illyboulder2557 Yeah The Republic Of Ireland 🇮🇪🇪🇺

[@woohoohaha7607]

@@illyboulder2557 Where are u from.

[@illyboulder2557]

@@woohoohaha7607 Norman Ireland.