Game Balance in Fallout: New Vegas (and other games)

[@smellvadordali9806]

Raising the bar on the clickbait game

[@bluemooninthedaylight8073]

Raising the bar? He conquered it with an arrow through the heart [With an additional arrow letting you know that the first arrow is indeed going through the heart].

[@makimakipapura7543]

I never expected this from him, and it's hilarious XD

[@Socxdaman]

Leave my goat alone

[@spaghetto_depressi]

I'm just hypnotised watching Falconhoof, waiting to see if his eyes pop up.

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

HULLO TRAVLER

[@ILoveEvadingTax]

Kill Jester

[@TheLucidChiba]

I looked around trying to find him behind Josh and was taken by surprise.

[@HashBandit]

I just watched the falcon hoof part from the xmas special and then randomly clicked this video from my homepage and seen the t-shirt. Mind boggling.

[@joewatson7069]

Kill Boon

[@tjugo_]

scrolled to read comments and when i went back i was met by 0:05

[@Rudi4rius]

Lmao

[@TheFrogEnjoyer]

I could listen to you talk about New Vegas for hours

[@suites.74]

The playthroughs he did are awesome

[@GodIwishIknew]

Or anything really

[@Rubyduckshovel]

DT is one of my favorite defense systems in games. It's one of the main reasons I prefer NV's gunplay of all the 3D fallouts.

[@TheEdumuller]

I didn't know I needed a Falconhoof shirt until now.

[@zhaqihanifah4915]

Barry's Nuka-Cola

[@yourpaljoni]

RIP Benny Harvey gone but not forgotten

[@Max-rn3eb]

uploaded right as yesterday's leftovers were warm, fantastic. glad to see more josh sawyer :)

[@Thieverpedia]

FNV was my first and favorite Fallout game. I've played plenty of others, but NV had those deep storylines, high perk variety, memorable NPCs, and proper pacing difficulty-wise. Got massive DPS? That deathclaw or cazadore are still going to massacre you in a few hits. It's that constant looming fear of mortality that makes the game. Being an unstoppable force is great until you realize there's no thrill in a fight being one-sided. The adrenaline pumping keeps me going! Not to mention all the niche and fantastic crafts you could make with the various crafting stations. They added so much flavor to the game when you wanted to hunt for a specific ingredient. Don't get me wrong, a game like Fallout 4 or Skyrim were great and all. But endgame combat always ended the same. I'd win the fight and proceed to eat everyone before going to the next. Kind of leaves a bit of bad flavor in your mouth.

[@LMarti13]

I just came here for the Limmy shirt

[@pagingdoctorsideburns]

I'm glad to see a discussion like this given that I am still riding high on Baldur's Gate 3 and enjoy theorycrafting, but I feel like a lot of the discussion around that game is kind of poisoned by overpowered balance decisions that a lot of players defend by saying "well it's a single player game, who cares if x build completely trivializes content?" Which isn't even true, btw, for example just yesterday I responded in a thread giving someone advice for what to make to play with their dad in co-op who was planning to play a wizard. Anyway, with regard to New Vegas balance, one of the things I have noticed over the years is that the mechanical demands of the players in terms of fighting is low, but the logistical demands are higher - that is, that the skill expression in the game sort of comes from a place of inventory management, which some people might find boring but is actually what I love doing. Things like, are you making good quality food, do you have enough handload ammo, is your gear in good shape? Are the questions that decide how you will do in combat compared to your ability to dodge or aim.

[@fishbonesinc]

It's a good day when Josh puts out a vid

[@arcsta_rr]

Oh! Yeah! It is(!)

[@Beto.oliveira96]

I like to be challenged, but well-made and balanced challenges. As you mentioned, Skyrim is a game that I love and have played a lot, but the balancing when the game's difficulty changes was ridiculous. You would put it on the highest difficulty and horrible things would happen, like a crab killing you faster than a Dragon, hahaha. It was a balance based solely on blind scaling! xD Deadfire has perfect balance in my opinion. All you need is knowledge of the game and you will be rewarded. You have several ways to deal with opponents creatively, and mechanically you can also create plays, like disengaging from an enemy attack at the exact moment the attack animation is coming out. Something like a manual dodge. Or simply knowing the enemy's weak point and taking advantage of it, for example using a simple Chill Fog to blind enemies at a distance and make them gather together, making it easier for you to control them. Another thing is "kiting", the act of attacking from a distance and running so that enemies can't reach you... I could spend an entire afternoon listing several ways to deal with opponents in PotD, but then the text would be too long XD Anyway, when they say that games like Souls are challenging, I agree, but are they good for me? NO! I prefer more strategic, fun challenges that are less focused on reflexes.

[@Medytacjusz]

Personal subjective opinion: most RPGs have this problem for me where the beginning is nice, but the latter part is so easy that I'm just sleepwalking through combat which starts to fill more like a hindrance to seeing the end of the story than any fun in itself and I just want to get it over with. All the loot loses excitement too, because you don't need any of it. I want to start over but I also want to finish the story - and there's still hours of it left! And I'm not even a big minmaxer, I only pay attention to tooltips and explore a lot, that's it. From Fallout in 1997 to New Vegas to Tyranny, it has always been the case. The combat stops being fun waaaay before the story stops, and that's an issue. The reason is probably what Josh mentioned: where the player is power-wise becomes a more and more open question the more the player is into the game. It's difficult to tune around that. The fundamental issue is the concept of levelling itself. The most balanced games either do not have levelling or it affects the player power much more subtly than in an average RPG. The bosses in Hollow Knight stay a major challenge even if you have a bit more health and charms.

[@phyconet]

Really loving the most recent stint of videos. Its great having good game design thought from storied developers freely accessible on the internet. I still remeber some early videos you did about Pillars 1 that had an impact when I was first getting into game development. Keep it up! Also thank you for your contribution.

[@pootispencer9765]

Personally I'm a big fan of scarcity driven balancing. After a certain point, a game feels bloated when you keep pouring in bigger, heavier, tankier, spongier, enemies and obstacles - rather than trying to make the player commit more resources towards their success, it feels cleaner to maintain what's required for success but reduce the resources available for it. Usually this drives interaction with neglected systems - if you can't get enough ammo off of dead enemies, merchants start to become more important, ammo crafting becomes more significant, and so on. In rpg games particularly, that beginning stretch where you don't have 'enough' and thus become committed to gathering/leveling/exploring are often considered the most fun. Scarcity lengthens that opening stretch for the type of players that are more experienced and thorough, while not being inaccessible to less experienced players. It's a little easier to adjust as well, and means that you can essentially balance for different levels of skill by the efficiency demanded of the player in resource gameplay rather than the 'raw' difficulty of encounters (reaction speed, accuracy demands, et cetera).

[@arbo-u2b]

Beelining to Navarro for APA takes all the fun out come onnnn

[@jackbennett2269]

When I played fallout NV I had two experiences. 1: Making my way first to the south west I believe, then relatively easily through the center, finding the brotherhood, that space launch site,the deathclaw pit, the bomber people(edit: I died to them, did not engage), that weird sort of violent gambling city, and I went in the city and defeated the guy I thought was the main boss. I basically did it bc the opening cut scene led me there, and the side quests didn’t grab too much of my time or interest I guess. after beating him I instantly didn’t care anymore and was fully disillusioned with the amount of game there was to discover and I quit. 2: The other time I was leveling up and tried to do a POI/quest that was down southeast, that was actually DLC (I didn’t know). All the enemies were OP compared to my meager leveling and I ran out of ammo and died. I was sort of hoping to discover better weapons there. Haven’t gone back to a fallout game for like 5+ years. I feel personally that games like Call of Pripyat were more immersive, intriguing, and engaging to me. But we all have different experiences

[@UrsusDerpus]

Terrific thumbnail, Josh.

[@taibasarovadil]

10:30 absolutely looking at tf2, valve probably didnt expect people to clock in 1000 hours to master demo or soldier to make them absolutely powehouses likewise, they prob didnt expect people to clock in 1000 hours battling spies and figuring out every single trick an enemy spy has

[@SortOfEggish]

loving the Falconhoof T-shirt

[@pedrosaintsaenz]

I hope you get to upload as often as Tim Cain, you guys are a blessing

[@_iao_]

balance matters by definition, and there's no way to avoid it as long as numbers are involved. behavior and "ai" all boil down to numbers as well. i think people that want "unbalanced games" fundamentally misunderstand what that means, they're essentially asking for a worse game. they don't really want a lack of balance, they want a particular balance approach or style. something can be tuned differently or in lopsided ways and yet be properly balanced because it delivers the intended storytelling and/or makes sense within the game world context.

[@richardalpert4005]

One thing I was hoping to be mentioned, was the game's difficulty settings. How does it affect game balancing, do you balance for Normal or for Very Hard? Is there a developer responsibility to satisfy players of all skill levels with it, or is it relegated to the players themselves? In FNV for example, it feels like the game was balanced mainly for Normal and other difficulty settings were a simple carryover from F3. I personally prefer to have one difficulty level while also having other in-game options to try in case you get stuck on a challenge.

[@AdrianZakrzewski-t7o]

I'm pretty sure most games are balanced for Normal, Hard and Very Hard have absolutely crazy broken stuff in them (check out Super Mutant Overlords in F3, they are almost immortal on those settings).

[@herogunslinger]

Man, I remember playing F:NV on release on the Xbox 360. I didn't have internet at the time, so I was playing pre-patch, so I had the ridiculously tanky Deathclaws. Those who know, know. I got the Abilene Kid BB Gun, and I was just screwing around and seeing how good my build was, and I was one-shotting BoS Knights with this BB gun while sneaking through the Hidden Valley Bunker. Was it a balanced experience? Absolutely not. Was it a good experience? Definitely, it's one that has stuck with me to this day. I have you and the fantastic team from F:NV to thank for this memory.

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

I think it’s clear you made the right choice in new Vegas given the examples you talk about are still discussed positively. The cazadores and deathclaws near the beginning of new vegas communicated effectively that it was not the same as fo3/oblivion. It made the arc of your character that much more satisfying to be stomped by some bugs early on, and return later to get revenge once you’ve traveled the Mojave.

[@Cowpowblaow]

Love the Falconhoof shirt.

[@mafrobeats]

Love the Limmy t-shirt!

[@pipisperson2163]

RIP benny Harvey

[@cautiousdissolute5780]

That laugh at 10:00 so relatable!

[@OldyAlbert]

Last year i finished Pathfinder on last difficulty and what surprised me that not just the game was more or less challenging all the way thouth (played general party without any prior knowledge, i'm sure there's complex builds that trivialize some of the game), but also the last boss was pretty crazy. If anything it was the opposite what i expect from this type of RPGs - optional Lich and Dragon were pretty easy, but the last boss was almost like it's from anime game with phases and stuff, didn't except such a fight as a story boss and was pleasantly surprised. Because western RPGs usually have pretty basic final story bosses. Another crazy final guy was in Underrail. Also my only playthouth of Pillars 2 was with a challenge mod from some guy on Nexusmods (haha, i'm actually, for your information, a master general of videogames), was pretty cool, tho i think it overscalled DLC, i only finished the ice one and desided to finished the story. My master_generalcy is under question. On the ending - i agree, i mostly critique difficulty for the first playthouth, but often games can't handle even the first one in keeping-it-challening sense. Currently playing SteamWorld Heist 2 on hardest setting and it's pretty cool i think.

[@Braillemane]

thanks josh on Wisconsin :)

[@worry_wart]

surprised you didn't mention the JSawyer mod in this video! it's still popular to this day and supported by the modding community!

[@donnietobasco4526]

Whoa Josh Sawyer has a KZbin channel? Sick!

[@SoFishtry]

'Balance' in open world games is hard. Stuff like Dragon's Dogma or Gothic that doesnt hesitate to let you get in way over your head is my personal preference but its a hard thing to do and communicate to players effectively.

[@katharinekatharsis]

ahhh, a Limmy shirt, i neeeed it lol

[@GhostBrigader]

Love listening to your mini talks about game design, I tend to use some of these ideas in my own smaller scale table top games. Any rules of thumb for like combat encounter design? How do you set up encounters and how many are used in an area sort of thing?

[@MrMacMan23]

Animal Crossing: Iron Man, Hardcore

[@rafaelvono9129]

B line to Navarro for AP? Weak, I B - Line to Navarro for K - 9 and Dornan

[@couldntcarelessthough]

Like I wouldn't instantly subscribe to Josh Sawyer's youtube channel as soon as I saw it ! Easiest sub of my life

[@chancy667]

pop med-x pop psycho equip super sledge and turn off brain. Game is fun, challenge not needed lol

[@arcsta_rr]

Power attack with fire axe! Cattle prod 'em, hammer 'em! Rushing water!

[@DrBeam-xz6hg]

I feel like people trash on new Vegas for having tons of bugs but if you have a fully nodded fallout 4 on an Xbox one the game will crash when ever you try to equip a weapon it drives me insane so that's why I play new Vegas a lot like for hours and I love it

[@minaxsocietas480]

1:53 It's not controversial, every independent game reviewer was of the same opinion. I would say the game feels like a chore after the second playthrough.

[@Mr_Sup3rnova]

pentiment : skyrim expansion when ?? 😂

[@buhlake3391]

Loving all the new content Josh! Keep it coming man!

[@sator_project]

Back to back uploads!? Look out Tim Cain

[@kotzpenner]

We need the Josh & Tim podcast like once a week lol. Featuring snoring dog in the background.

[@Sylvie_without_surname]

Oh I’d definitely listen to that. I appreciate the candor and thoughtfulness they both bring to their videos. That, and the fact that they have so much experience. It’s especially cool hearing creative reflections on games that I know very well

[@guitarsoupify]

Love the contrast between the over the top silliness of the thumbnail and the calm conversational tone of the actual content

[@Indigo_Gaming]

Just chiming in to say that your thumbnail game is on point. Hopefully weather has been cooler recently!

[@kotzpenner]

achieved CHIM

[@bigtastyben5119]

your complaint about new vegas' shoving cowboy aesthetics "down your throat" makes no sense tbqh, unless you really, REALLY, hate cowboys.

[@Thesavagesouls]

@@bigtastyben5119 No it makes perfect sense, Fallout was never about real world aesthetics.

[@eliamo101]

Josh you should do more clickbait video titles JOSH SAWYER new vegas man REVEALS secrets to GAME BALANCE

[@qpid8110]

"The secrets THEY don't want you to know!"

[@sub-jec-tiv]

10 reasons FN:NV is better than BMW: Reason #9 will surprise you!

[@sub-jec-tiv]

Ed. note: Reason #9 will not surprise you

[@sodvar5047]

"Fallout 3 was not a hard game" is perfect clickbait too

[@tentonmotto6779]

Josh did a great job balancing vanilla New Vegas but the real rabbit hole is fine-tuning the game by carefully selecting, fixing, merging and ultimately installing hundreds of mods.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

Especially jsawyer.

[@fawful7457]

Viva New Vegas has this covered, giving you a fair and balanced FNV experience.

[@MortismalGaming]

Personally, I'm a fan of modular difficulties that we're starting to see more of (like was added to Starfield post release) in RPGs specifically that allow you to adjust tons of different things to your own personal taste not all that dissimilar to Magran's Fires in Deadfire.

[@deanmoccia2941]

I agree! Starfield’s post-launch difficulty settings are excellent, and I’d love to see more of that going forward

[@UlissesSampaio]

Yeah me too. I'm the guy in 7:49 but that applies high lethality to you and the enemies since I hate health-sponginess. Also, imho, D&D-style dramatic level-based health scaling feels super bad since it makes one of the sides like using noodle weapons when there are level differences.

[@Itgetsbetterofficial]

I actually don’t like those, it kind of paralyzes me with choice and I don’t really understand the actual effect most changes will have until I’ve played the game anyway. I don’t tend to touch these settings and like having presets. The options is fine, but I don’t think a purely modular system without well balanced easy, medium, hard is good

[@deanmoccia2941]

@@Itgetsbetterofficial I used to be the same way but then I kinda just changed my mind I guess. I used to hate the idea of having the choice but now I just appreciate the ability to change things how I see fit. I do agree having presets for easy, normal, hard etc alongside the modular settings is a good thing, but I still think modular settings are unambiguously good things to have as long as you don’t overthink them

[@etthhereal]

@@UlissesSampaiothat’s the entire point, if you could just melt someone from a lower level, what’s the point of a leveling system

[@Retrofire-47]

"We completely abandoned the concept of balance within the DLCs" - creator of Dead Money

[@Nilon241]

He uh.. didn't do that one. That was Chris lmao.

[@andrewischill]

@@Nilon241yeah I don’t think he’s attributing that quote to Josh I think he’s saying that Avellone originally said that

[@DarthJarJar_542]

Ave, true to Sawyer.

[@arcsta_rr]

Hell's yeah!

[@nathanrandolph1796]

At 26 I started my solo game dev journey, due to being inspired by the work your teams create & knowledge you & others like Tim Cain have shared. Thank you for the education & insight. Your content has meant the world for my motivation

[@Blueterran5]

Love the channel Josh! Between your quick talks and Tim Cain's quick design talks I feel like I get a great general idea of your thoughts behind-the-scenes. Cant wait for more! :)

[@odrithingamajig]

I must ask before I watch, is that a Falconhoof (of Adventure Call fame, of Limmy's Show fame) shirt? Very stylish.

[@billy6044]

I thought that was limmy too

[@txflood2519]

if theyve put 1000 hours over 12 playthroughs and are posting on your forums, as a game dev youve *probably* done something right.

[@phelanii4444]

New Vegas was my first Fallout game. Trying to go north from Goodsprings, it never felt like "you cannot go here", it felt like "you cannot go here *yet*", which made me look forward to getting stronger and squishing those goddamned bugs. (Doesn't mean I still wasn't scared shitless as I popped those cazadores with the Gobi campaign rifle) I think that the ability to evoke those feelings are huge props to you and the team 😄

[@giovannicervantes2053]

And the thing about those little bastards is You can cheese the shit outta them by using the cliffs and the merc 40mm so I always save as much explosives and explosive adjacent aid items in the early game

[@markblacket8900]

@@giovannicervantes2053 you can also sneak by the deathclaws and mutants quite easily if you know the route and I always saw that as an intended shortcut for experienced players who don't want to take the long and boring path

[@ussliberty109]

​@@markblacket8900 Or you can run through Scorpion Gultch and come out behind Helios One.

[@kirbeeez6131]

I’m assuming the why Skyrim video you talked about was by Razbuten? That dude is great.

[@kaptenteo]

Yes! It must've been.

[@irvinchadwick5046]

The only time i ever really died in Skyrim was from falling.

[@pagingdoctorsideburns]

It's definitely possible to die early on, like the first time you pick a fight with giants for example. It's just unfortunate that the game loses any of that level of resistance pretty quickly and never recovers it

[@Zoombeanie132]

keep getting distracted by Limmy staring into my soul

[@SimonSlav-GameMakingJourney]

I like a system of "Normal" and "Survival / Hardcore". You learn how the game works on an easier difficulty and then crack everything up in the "survival" difficulty, that way you're forced to interact with more systems that may not be essential in the "normal" difficulty.

[@sieda666]

The only issue I have with this distinction is when damage values/other random features like the ability to save wherever are changed around to make the experience more difficult. I think survival elements that engage all of a games systems/increase player immersion should be considered/changed separately from more arbitrary challenge scaling like enemy health, damage scaling, or limited saving.

[@8xottox8]

​@@sieda666 But those are also counted under the "more systems". There is no reason to for an example use the carts in Skyrim if you can still fast travel. No reason to worry about beds and sleeping availability if you can just save wherever. This was known all the way back in ancient games where you had save rooms and limited amounts of save items.

[@NinjaJaidenHD]

To what extent were the systems in Fallout: New Vegas inspired by Falconhoof's Adventure Call?

[@theobell2002]

All of them.

[@melsplaining4156]

After 1000 hours: no weapons no armor no healing no companions cannibalism-only hardcore mode run

[@etthhereal]

I LOVE the scaling system in new Vegas where you have elites that stay hard as fuck the entire game, it can be like a litmus test. As opposed to F4 enemies leveling with you simply feels less immersive for whatever reason. Just immaculate vibes coming from this absolute gem

[@arcsta_rr]

I love it! I love it! I love it!

[@fafofafin]

The power that comes from knowing how the game works is what gives most games replay value, imo. A first playthrough is for the thrill of discovery and challenge and what not, but your 4-5th playthrough is just comfort food. It SHOULD be easier.

[@connorgaskill7653]

If you have a mechanic that the player can ignore, you don't have a mechanic. The choice to engage/not engage with a mechanic should be meaningful, interesting, and affect other mechanics. Difficulty that allows players to ignore mechanics leads to boring gameplay and feeds back into concessions and bad design from developers. Take potions from Skyrim as an example. They augment the player's damage, resistance, provide healing and skill boosts, but the developers were too afraid to make them do too much since the game was designed around them being optional. Players inevitably end up hording dozens of "increase x pointless stat by 10" potions because of how unnecessary and ubiquitous they are. If the potions weren't "optional" (i.e. the enemies were harder necessitating the players to actually use them), developers would be incentivized to fix the alchemy system to do more. What if enemies were stronger, potions were much better, the player could only drink so many within a certain time period (maybe add a drinking animation), and the way the player acquires them was more interesting? Suddenly the player is engaging more with the game's economy, rationing, creating more interesting builds, and thinking about combat on a much deeper level.

[@graeme5048]

Discussion about FNV? FNV remaster confirmed!

[@Kim-ft6cx]

Josh Sawyer video, talking about Fallout New Vegas, with a Falconhoof tshirt? HELL YEAH

[@queengames8421]

Good video. I think one of the reasons balance is particularly important in a singleplayer RPG is that has a large impact on the variety of possible characters. If you have 20 classes, but one is obviously head and shoulders above the others, it's going to have a lot less character variety than a game with 5 well balanced classes. I think Skyrim is a pretty interesting example; there's a common meme about how every playthrough eventually becomes a stealth archer. It's just a much more powerful option than most of the other classes (along with having the most mechanical complexity in terms of execution), so a lot of players naturally gravitate towards it, even if they don't realize it.

[@Turnoutburndown]

I am feeling that now in Warhammer 3, a game that's damn near impossible to balance. The Tzench faction, their ultra basic very bottom unit is called a Blue Screamer, and it has to be the most powerful basic unit in the game. So it makes building a high level army hard since the basic unit can carry you.

[@SuperHansimann]

I will never understand why games like Skyrim where melee is just pointing in the general direction of an enemy doesn't take inspiration from games like Dark Messiah of Magic and Might. Like you said archery is usually a go to for most players because it is the most effective and more complex only because of the simple fact that you have to aim the bow and account for movement and the trajectory of the arrow. Basic stuff. Dark Messiah is know for being a ragdoll simulator, but it also makes melee combat a lot of fun and creative. It also makes magic creative. Like if you shrink someone in DM you can stomp their little bodies. You can ice the ground the make the enemy slip over a ledge or into spikes.

[@FireTrainer92]

​@@SuperHansimann They don't design their games to be that intricate. It's why such a simple strat works so well

[@queengames8421]

@@SuperHansimann Man, you just reminded me that I need to get around to playing Dark Messiah. I've had it sitting in my library for a few months now.

[@Akiironzo]

@@SuperHansimann In addition to what Firetrainer said, ask yourself why you feel Skyrim *needs* a more complex or involved combat system. It sounds like a perception issue on your end rather than Bethesda's tbh. Not every game needs or wants an intricate combat system. That said, Skyrim was originally intended to have a more interactive magic system that was scrapped at some point in development. You were supposed to be able to combine spells to create unique or enhanced effects. I don't entirely remember the reason why it was scrapped, but I believe it ended up being too costly. Also consider that Dark Messiah is not an open-world RPG. Bethesda barely got Skyrim out in a (somewhat) playable state. There's a lot of development costs to consider when making decisions like this. Could they have done it? Maybe. But they didn't and it seems to be working out for them. We'll see what they bring w/ ES6.

[@benjaminhaines6565]

The Jsawyer mod for NV changes so many things, big and small. I don't play NV without it anymore, makes the game so much fun.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

I agree mostly though I didn't like how your mod nerfed number of perks gained. It was waaay too harsh, best part about FNV is due to how much freedom you had in building ypur character via perks, F1 had too strict of a requirement and too few perks and F2 perks were mostly forgettable like F1, FNV had both memorable perks and just enough perks to keep it fun. Sure maaaaaybe you could reduce perk count by 5~ but that's it.

[@pt8306]

Meta Mastery can also be a curse, which is exactly why I made the Randomiser for System Shock 2. After 5-6 playthroughs, knowing where everything was is definitely antithetical to the intended experience of helplessness. Randomising item spawns while keeping the overall distribution consistent allowed the game to retain that feeling, especially since some of the hardest areas in the game also have some of the worst loot - something players wouldn't know on a first playthrough, but which quickly becomes important on future playthroughs when most players avoid these areas because they know there's nothing of value there. Randomising item locations in an open game obviously has bad connotations because it's been done badly so many times (Fallout 3 comes to mind) where the whole world feels like it revolves around you, but it's also a very useful tool for combating meta mastery. Some people may like that they can get a certain piece of armour early and steamroll the game, but for a veteran player just looking for a "normal" experience, knowing where good stuff is can be a real drag on the experience.

[@XxCrescentxXYoutube]

Huge shot in the dark and I'm sure you have much better things to do, however all that being said I'm part of a huge unannounced mod project twice the size of fallout 4s map and I was wondering if you would want to come check it out and or consult with us on it?

[@JiF28]

Watching these vids knowing Josh is cooking up Pen2ment behind the scenes *huffs copium*

[@shoogles_]

Will your next game have the option to Kill Jester?

[@arcsta_rr]

Fallout 4 too. They went in and wrecked it in the newest "update". I think they ruin it on purpose.

[@jamesalexander4836]

'Kill Jester'

[@MildManneredBen]

These thumbnails are a gift, thank you.

[@Karaveba1]

Did SOMEONE SAY NEW VEGAS??!!!???

[@arcsta_rr]

Haw haw!!!! 🍺

[@Twarex01]

Ayy that Razbuten Skyrim video was great

[@DarthDimmadome]

You should work with Piranha games on a project before you retire. It seems like your views on rpgs, fits their views. A lot of what you’re saying is in every single one of their games.

[@vembdev]

Piranha Bytes is closed bro

[@1sweetree]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@trubnikov]

These thumbnails are getting creative😂😊 LOVE IT!

[@TheSnoringGamer]

8:10 haha this describes exactly how I would spend forever modding the 3D fallouts, I always wanted it to feel like insurgency. It never actually ended up being an enjoyable experience though, because so many additional elements are required to add balance. Increasing ammo scarcity makes it feel weird when the AI has infinite, but making them spend ammo ends with them wasting it all and coming at you with a knife. Levels also become unsatisfying so you need to rework what the skill points and perks do. Then the armour doesn't feel realistic because the protection doesn't apply to the specific body part, e.g. I couldn't get a metal helmet to block head damage. The list goes on. I wasn't a good enough modder to make what I really wanted because all I could figure out how to do was adjust values, but all the other mods out there that I could find just made the game too easy.

[@fnvfanMSPR]

Fallout: New Vegas my beloved

[@Milk-rn5uq]

lol you are the best! great topic.

[@ThePumpkinhead13]

holy shit your Limmy Falconhoof t-shirt LOL

[@tedrow70]

Dude you gotta do these more! Always hoped you would do it after I saw Tim Cain doing it, you two rock. Also, hope it cools down man, no ac? Can totally get that

[@AG_Druid]

Thanks for your work, and nice t shirt

[@rykehuss3435]

Balancing a totally open world like Fallout or Elder Scrolls must be very difficult if you dont use level scaling. Personally I hate level scaling, is totally immersion breaking that some bandits you were killing at the beginning of the game are suddenly dragon-level powerful near the end without any explanation or lore reason at all, like I could buy some specific super-bandit group acquired some super powerful gear etc, this would provide a way to reuse enemy models but only once or twice. Thats why I so loved the Pathfinder games. Theyre semi-open, you cant access late game content from the beginning but you still have quite the freedom to tackle the content available to you in any order you want. It was very easy to wrap your brain around, you never had that moment where early game bandits were suddenly a thing again near the end nor did you have that moment where some cool location is just not available to you because a big angry dragon you cant kill guards it. It did all of that in a natural feeling way, which for me is the most important thing for immersion. Thats why I play RPG's, for the sense of adventure and escapism. Nothing destroys that illusion more than level scaling OR being denied access to a cool location by a level/gear check enemy. Some cool secret superbosses inside specific locations not withstanding, like was the case in Pillars 2 (and PF 2) I dont really understand your points about Souls-likes. The games are functionally boss-rush games. The mobs are not a threat, you just run past them or kill them quite easily once you figure them out. Theyre like theme parks, where the attraction is the boss fight. Mobs are just there to give the games some life (which they generally dont have even with them, theyre very dead and static games)

[@darthvaderreviews6926]

Level scaling varies in mileage for me. I think being able to punch a tank so hard it explodes because it was only level 5 can also be immersion breaking and lame. I do also recognise the gameplay value in making all enemy types viable in endgame, I _would_ like some bandit camps or bears to pose a threat, not just dragons. IMO for games that want to employ _aggressive_ level scaling, an opt-in system can be a better way to handle it. Eg. if enemies in Skyrim only scaled to Level 30, and to enable scaling past that you'd need to use a magical artifact or ask the gods or etc to give you a better challenge, I think that could feel better justified to the player. I think the confusion about the soulslike point is a matter of time causing a different perception. Looking at games like Dark Souls III or Elden Ring today, the bosses are the headliners, and the formula of how to beat regular enemies is more common knowledge, so I get why you'd think that. But back with Demon's Souls or Dark Souls, when players were less used to the combat, and the main point of reference for third person melee combat games for most people were player-empowering character action games, or Zelda. The idea that a _regular skeleton_ would kill you in three hits if you didn't know how to block/dodge yet was completely new to many people. One of the biggest talking points about Dark Souls back then was that every enemy is capable of killing you. And also, to be honest, back then the bossfights were often pretty shit, and so the perception that it's all about the boss fights wasn't fully formed yet.

[@rykehuss3435]

@@darthvaderreviews6926 Good reply all around, I appreciate that. About the lvl 5 tank exploding due to a beginner adventurer's punch could easily be remedied by not making tanks or their equivalent appear until much later. Easy enough solution. I dont want a bear or a common bandit posing a threat near the end game without a specific reason. Otherwise whats the point of leveling up and becoming stronger? It doesnt make sense. Give the bear some forest goddess power up or something if you want to reuse a model. And like I said, I think games like the Pathfinder games do it best. Semi-open, no level scaling. Whats available to you is doable, most of the time. But if you run too far without powering up youre gonna get into issues. Not insurmountable, but still. Default difficulty that is, on harder ones ofc you need a lot more meta knowledge. Also I'm of the school that you should put easy enemies in the late (and why not middle too!) game of your RPG. It brings so much immersion, makes the world feel alive, and feeds that delicious power fantasy feeling seeing how easily your character blows up enemies you struggled with in early game. And then not to make them feel like waste of time, you could invest in the writing of those enemies to make it worth the player's while. Like some small mini-quest a la Witcher 3.

[@Medytacjusz]

lack of level scaling is also immersion breaking in its own way - why can an armed to the teeth banding from the first village be absolutely murdered by a little baby from the last city? Thing is, levelling itself is a fundamentally immersion-breaking concept - or at least it would be, if we weren't so used to it as a fundamental RPG mechanic. I think it made the most sense in the OG rpg formula - dungeon crawling. Bunch of nobodies going deeper and deeper fighting more and more powerful baddies getting stronger and stronger. But as RPG matured and we invented more and more complex worlds and stories it started to make less and less sense.

[@VK-sz4it]

I totally agree. Level scaling is such a bad thing. But New Vegas is much more moderate with this then most similar games. You are becoming 50 times stronger by the end of the game, but level plays marginal role in it. Most power spike you get is from stacking abilities that come from metagaming. If you don't metagame - most important source of late game OPness - equipment that you are allowed to use even if you are level 1.

[@VK-sz4it]

@@Medytacjusz I have played RPGs without level scaling at all, and it was fun. I do think that it needs to have huge rework. For example, you start as proficient [role], but years of wandering and doing quests made you to also equally proficient [second role] or non proficient jake of all trades. What I meant is you are no more then twice as strong at the end compared to you at the beginning.

[@jpbarnes8334]

falconhoof lol

[@joevsjoes1799]

I like finding areas that are above my level and getting my butt kicked. I love going back to those areas with better equipment and a higher level to get revenge.

[@Majber]

it would be so great to see you and Tim in 1 video

[@DaglessMc]

Is that a limmy Falconhoof shirt?

[@quibster]

falconhoof good lad

[@monkeeee]

There’s no way people think Skyrim is hard, right? It’s just a grind simulator

[@Serpari]

I hope some day you're able to do a video/thread on your design philosophy behind characters, particularly Arcade Gannon. He means a lot to me, and I'll forever be thankful you wrote him as he is because at the time, I hadn't seen any characters like him whatsoever. Thank you for creating him.

[@Oilyoxygen]

I'm a fan of the 'reasonably challenging early game -> Powerhouse Endgame' difficulty pipeline. Especially when there's a lot of different ways to achieve that powerhouse status. But what I really like to see in those games- and it's not something that comes up super often- are optional Superbosses or "Danger Zones"; stuff intended to be a challenge specifically for Level Capped, ground-out and optimized characters. New Vegas had a bit of that with the Legendary Bloatfly, Courier's Mile, etc. But that's what I enjoy most about Bethesda-Engine games and their moddability.

[@Ne0ConKiller]

To this day it shocks me how such an impactful game was created in such a short time, and that bethesda turned down the opportunity to try it again with skyrim.