Game Designer Ranks EVERY "Modern" Classic Sonic Level

[@thealandude9146]

Ghost Town is LITERALLY Emerald Hill in level design btw

[@Plexi.T]

are you serious. That is f*cking CRAAZZY if that's the case 🤣

[@supersaiyanfox9190]

I’m really happy someone gave Classic Sonic from Generations the respect he deserves. He is seriously underrated. His controls aren’t even bad, just different from the Genesis games, Mania, and Superstars. I stand by that they can’t make this Classic Sonic like the one in those games because the level design in Generations doesn’t compliment the old physics. The level design compliments the super fast spin-dash and the tall bounces off of enemies. Without those aspects that Generations brought to the table, the Classic Sonic levels would at best not be as fun as it was before, and at worst be just as terrible as Classic Sonic from Sonic Forces. City Escape Act 1 is not only my favorite Classic Sonic level in Generations, but it’s also my favorite level in Generations tied with Rooftop Run Act 2, and it’s at least one of my favorite Classic Sonic levels of all time. Genesis Classic Sonic wouldn’t work for that stage though because he’s too slow and would continuously get creamed by the GUN truck.

[@Plexi.T]

@supersaiyanfox9190 THANK YOU! I feel like I'm crazy for how much I DONT see people praising the composition and level design for the Classic Levels in Sonic Generations. Most people I knew growing up, only viewed the levels as a slog to get through before they could enjoy the 3d sonic levels. And it's so frustrating because just like most things, Sega PERFECTED both the boost formula AND modern classic Sonic levels BOTH in 1 game. It astounds me how after 10 years later, Sonic Generations STILL is probably the best, most polished Sonic game besides Mania. And I feel like people don't talk about that as much. I'm SO interested in what Sonic x Shadow Generations brings to the table. I hope to GOD that they actually bring back the old level designs for that game. Because if they do, I know that it's going to be a BAMGER 🔥

[@supersaiyanfox9190]

@@Plexi.TI think we’re most likely in for some good shit, if you’ve seen the various demo gameplay footage of Shadow Generations from Summer Game Fest. It’s inspired by Dream Team because there’s a room in the Space Colony Ark level that is big and open to many areas of exploration.

[@mimic_is]

10:11 ah yes RANK C RANK

[@Plexi.T]

Yeah, they're all like that funnily enough 😂

[@Real_Deadphilium]

Im so glad this video is out cuz i have never seen anything like it and i found it so unique and i was looking forward for it, good job and keep up the good work

[@Plexi.T]

Thank you so much for this delightful comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video as it means a lot to me, and I work very hard on them. I hope you have a fabulous rest of the day internet person :)

[@Real_Deadphilium]

​@@Plexi.T thanks :)

[@FlameGirlPlays-gq9xv]

I love the Generations Classic levels for the fact the levels actually turn around corners and aren't just a straight line where you go on an upper or lower path. Just that one addition makes the level feel like an actual place and not a video game level

[@Plexi.T]

@FlameGirlPlays-gq9xv truuuuue. It gives the levels more depth and 3d awareness.

[@FlameGirlPlays-gq9xv]

@@Plexi.T exactly. Which really brought down the levels in Forces... Maybe Superstars also? I don't play those levels enough to remember if they did that... I don't think they did... Neither did Generations 3DS sadly. Did for Modern Sonic though

[@bradugar]

Crisis City Act One is my favourite soundtrack from a Classic Stage, I relisten to it a lot like it's in my top 10 Spotify listens.

[@GameFactsSpecial]

Superstars is the GOAT for me. Every level in Superstars > Forces, Generations. In Superstars the physics are so much better it elevates all the level design beyond what could be achieved in the Hedgehog Engine's 2D physics, such as they were.

[@DonPuffles]

lol

[@mecxu761]

100% agree superstars feel like an og classic i still like generations but forces suck

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Based for having planet wisp very high! Definitely deserves way less hate!

[@Plexi.T]

@@Hyp3rSonic ayy, real eyes realize peak when they see it.

[@chillycoldchomper9389]

I hold that stage close to my heart. And it's mostly because it's Planet Wisp and for its narrative.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@chillycoldchomper9389 cool 👍

[@glacierwolf2155]

Fun fact: The cars in Classic Speed Highway won't hit you if they're not already on the lane, but the cars in Modern Speed Highway will hit you regardless if they're already on the lane or not.

[@KOTSOSMC2002]

No hate but man, for a video titled "Game designer ranks" there sure isn't much game designer insight reflected in the writing style and breakdown. All of Forces was pretty much a hate b-ner segment and the rest was just "This level, liked/disliked music, liked/disliked gimmick, boring/not boring to me, let's move on to the next one", there isn't any analysis or insight you can't get from you average Joe. Again it's not a bad video (repetitive Forces hate aside) quite fun thoroughly, but it lacks constructive criticism based on your, advertised by your title, career. Hoping for future videos to be a bit more "Um actually☝️🤓"-esque when breaking down level design, overall design philosophies etc.

[@Plexi.T]

@KOTSOSMC2002 to be honest, I just use the game designer label to get the video more attention, lmao 🤣 . Although I DO have an actual fangame out that you can play if you are interested. It should be on this channel home page.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Agree

[@CupheadBloxYT]

finally some respect for Modern classic sonic, everyone always complains about classic sonics color today, they even made something called "Santiago" because of it, but they made him that color so people can tell the difference between classic and modern sonic, and everyone just hates the color, light blue/cyan fits classic sonic, because he looks cool with it, in the sonic generations improvment mod, Classic Sonic looks mad goofy bro, why is his eyes bigger, why is he more purplelish, and in sonic 1/sonic cd he didnt even have a shade of purple, and hes spine is more rounder lookin on the top

[@floatyghost633]

F is for Forces

[@jerryxpgaming4682]

Sonic generations had better control for classic tbh

[@Tailsfan5338]

Sonic forces could’ve been better than generations but instead it was a huge letdown and it ruined tails. And it controls almost the same as generations expect even worse. Why would sega make sonic forces like this?

[@Plexi.T]

@@Tailsfan5338 probably because it was MEGA rushed, and the developers didn't even come close to making the game that they envisioned (see the concept art).

[@SpeedyNinja1152]

​@@Plexi.TI guess they lied to us when they said they were taking their time with Sonic Forces. I mean, they did with Sonic Mania, so why not Sonic Forces? Now we just have to hope that fan are dedicated enough to do Sonic Forces right themselves.

[@mimic_is]

​@@Tailsfan5338I wish tails in forces was more like Nine from Prime

[@Tailsfan5338]

@@mimic_is sonic forces came out before nine from sonic prime existed. Why would tails in forces be more like Nine from sonic forces if sonic forces came out before sonic prime was out?

[@mach8114]

hell nah, classic planet wisp is d tier for sure, the spike wisp controls so much worse than in colours. i do love the remix tho. 🔥

[@OrangeToadGamer]

Honestly, a pretty valid ranking, I'm looking forward to the Modern Sonic/Boost level design ranking next!

[@Plexi.T]

Thanks, although that probably won't be for a while lol.

[@felixerlandson5270]

31:30 Ooooh looks like Sonic team decided to play other platformers and stumbled on Big Tower Tiny Square

[@Plexi.T]

didn't know what that game was until I read your comment.

[@Angry9guy]

I wish you included the 3ds stages

[@Plexi.T]

@@Angry9guy I will, in the Dimps videos for sure.

[@Angry9guy]

@@Plexi.T phew

[@littlebigplaylbpgames9676]

Iron Fortress Classic Sonic stage in Forces is a great sountrack I really liked it... and I would say it was the best stage out of all classic Sonic stages in Forces...

[@felixerlandson5270]

Hah First comment lesgooo Anyways I want to put something meaningful here so 5:36 Tails. Sonic. Two.

[@Plexi.T]

lmao what 🙃

[@kakhome1]

If you had to compare Studiopolis and Classic Rooftop Run on the same list, which would rank higher? Looking forward to hearing more about Generations somewhere down the line :) Seaside Hill's also my #1 choice and at least in the top three boosting levels overall.

[@Plexi.T]

Ooooo, that's a tough one. I LOVE Sonic Mania to death, but honestly, I've feel a lot more uniqueness, and flow from modern classic Sonic than traditional 2d Genesis one. Idk, something about adapting modern stages and graphics in the style of classic Sonic is just so appealing to me. But I know this is a hot take.

[@thealandude9146]

2:40 if they made the tower way further like the whole background a lot bigger it would immediately be a lot more interesting

[@Plexi.T]

@thealandude9146 yeah, that's something I realized heavily makes a background more dynamic. When a massive towering structure is ominously standing in the background.

[@AbsnormalCoolest]

the classic sonic music in forces isnt even that bad

[@clasherinotheone5249]

I completely disagree I really don’t like classic in gens I would put almost any superstars level above the gens levels It just doesn’t feel right and the levels don’t feel classic to me while also being annoying sometimes

[@kakhome1]

(Think this was hearted but never responded) What levels in Mania would you consider better than Pinball Carnival? Also quick side note, I might go with A for Mushroom Hill rather than S because of that gimmick where you're just pressing the down arrow over and over to get lifted upward; and swap in Angel Island or Ice Cap for 3&K's S tier level instead. All three levels are fantastic though!

[@Eric_Black134]

I honestly think that some of Forces Classic Sonic music isn't that bad. Ghost Town and Chemical Plant are genuinely pretty good. I'd rather listen to most of Classic Sonic's music from Forces than ANY of the Cyberspace music from Sonic Frontiers...

[@Plexi.T]

That's a CRAZY take, but I respect your opinion.

[@luxrayblast]

Where do the "Modern" Classic versions of Casino Night, Mushroom Forest, Emerald Coast, Radical Highway, Water Palace & Tropical Square from Sonic Generations 3DS rank? I forget what the Sonic Colors level was called for 3DS. I know Console had Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, Speed Highway, City Escape, Seaside Hill, Crisis City, Rooftop Run & Planet Wisp. As both have a level from Sonic 1-3, Adventure 1, Adventure 2 & Colors. Is Green Hill 3DS the same as console? I know the Colors Stage in 3DS is Tropical Something. Anyways, Water Palace is from Rush. It's the *ONLY* Rush Series level.

[@DemonLord493]

Green Hill Classic in 3DS is just Green Hill Zone Act 1 from Sonic 1. Same with Casino Night and Mushroom Hill, I think. I don't know for sure with those two, but I definitely know Green Hill Classic in 3DS is not the same as console, and that 3DS Green Hill is just GHZ Act 1 from Sonic 1 beat for beat. As for the Colours level, it's Tropical Resort.

[@luxrayblast]

@@DemonLord493 That's what it was. Anyway, was there a reason you skipped the 3DS Levels?

[@thewitheredstriker]

He's going to include them in a future video with other Dimps levels, so no worries.

[@luxrayblast]

@@thewitheredstriker Ah ok.

[@kakhome1]

Probably last question for this video, but what zones in Mania (either fully original or remastered) would you rank as either on par with or better than Pinball Carnival?

[@TTG-37]

Hedgehog Engine 1 and 2 don’t determine the gameplay, so no, Sega did not have rewrite code from Lost World for forces. Hedgehog Engine 1 & 2 determine how the game looks, for example lighting, and textures and stuff

[@Plexi.T]

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, they used the Havoc engine for all of Sonics' physics handling, which is weird that the games after Generations change them so frequently.

[@TTG-37]

@@Plexi.T oh, didn’t know that.

[@RameNoodls]

Sonic generations classic is so fun for me

[@RameNoodls]

Also I love sky temple tho

[@Real_Deadphilium]

Ok, this is MY opinion but generations is obviously better than superstars, BUT i do think some superstars levels are better than most generations levels

[@Plexi.T]

Yeah, I agree. Some of Superstars' levels slap WAY too hard, and I feel like I was a bit too harsh in my review of the game.

[@kakhome1]

(Replying here) I definitely think, among stages you put in the B tier in the last video, that Sonic 1's Green Hill; Sonic 2's Chemical Plant, Casino Night, and Mystic Caves; 3&K's Lava Reef and Sky Sanctuary; and Mania's Flying Battery are better than a majority of the levels in Superstars. Fair points about some of the gimmicks that were in other B tier levels (and all the C and below levels) on that list though. Generations tends to lack as many gimmicks that could be seen as more annoying as well I think, except Planet Wisp, which I still think is very divisive compared to the rest of the game.

[@Life_of_One]

Forces and Superstars Genesis music aren't bad they're pretty decent once you get used to it good video tho

[@mecxu761]

Nah forces ost is awful & doesn't feel like genesis at all

[@coacht8121]

hot take but I like most of the Classic Sonic music in Forces.

[@kakhome1]

After replaying Superstars, is the game (at least Story Mode) actually okay on its own merits in your opinion - just a disappointment in relation to both Mania and the Classic levels of Generations (which came closer to perfecting both Genesis style 2D gameplay and the possibilities of a 2.5D camera, respectively)? That's honestly the feeling I've always had much more so than anything "bad", at least for the most part. Although I will say without a doubt that the fully original zones of Mania feel much more wholly original than anything in Superstars except perhaps Cyber Station! That part, I do agree with. In fact even a fair number of the reworks in Mania have at least one Act that pretty much carves a unique identity.

[@Plexi.T]

@@kakhome1 and the fact that Superstars is $60 DOLLARS lol

[@felixerlandson5270]

31:09 "Just beats and shapes" 😭

[@Plexi.T]

I'm glad someone caught that game reference lol 😁

[@bingobo2551]

I wonder if you’ll include pocket adventure and gens 3ds in the dimps video since I have heard a bunch of dimps employees work on pocket adventure before forming dimps with some former capcom employees.

[@miadatenshi9903]

I had a stroke with the title

[@kakhome1]

If Superstars levels (I'll stick with only Superstars because it's the only one with a replicated Genesis gameplay style) were on the previous tierlist (Genesis games/Mania), would they each slot in at roughly the same rank (mostly B/A with a few C's) you placed them at here? Or would it they be at considerably different (higher/lower) ranks in the Genesis tierlist?

[@Plexi.T]

Superstars would probably all be around the A or S tier ranking aside from Golden Capital (which I think is ass). No offense, but the Classic Stages of the past have some really annoying level design features that are annoying to get through.

[@TusharSundarka]

what games have you designed

[@Plexi.T]

@@TusharSundarka Check home page video 👆

[@SERGEO-sn4pj]

I dont hate classic sonic in forces. It makes the war feel way more serious considering that sonic from the most came in order to halp save the world. I also dont hate the levels becuse they have lots of different paths and i dont hate the physics. I also kinda like lots of his music like ghost town, casino forest and death egg. The only problem i have is the fact that he doesn't do anything interesting in the cutscenes

[@Plexi.T]

@SERGEO-sn4pj Yeah, I completely disagree. He was obviously just included to appeal as cheap nostalgic bait for fans who don't like modern Sonic and all his "stupid friends." I, for one, think that his inclusion is THE major reason why the game feels so lazy and cheap at times.

[@SERGEO-sn4pj]

@@Plexi.T i respect your opinion but i disagree. You do have a point that his inclusion is a cashgrab but i actually have fun with those levels and that's why i dont mind them. Maybe its my bias for forces which is one of my favourite sonic games

[@Real_Deadphilium]

Hey quick question, its a video idea i have, it will probably be a long video but, can you make a 3d boost sonic levels ranked? Its a video i saw from a KZbinr named @Unleashed (execpt he did games like rush and gens 3ds but you dont have to do that) but yeah

[@VioletaVolnutt]

the discord invite is not working

[@Plexi.T]

@VioletaVolnutt I know, I have to fix the stupid invite link from within the server. Here's on that shoul work: discord.gg/SV2t2YUgd9

[@MrCostard27]

Hey! Not really related to the vid, but how and why did you become a game designer?

[@Plexi.T]

@MrCostard27 I just love video games, man. Ever since, I was a little kid. They mean a LOT to me.

[@nintony2994]

HYDROSSITY?????

[@julianx2rl]

Where's Generations 3DS?

[@Plexi.T]

NEXT VIDEO 😠

[@mecxu761]

Forces is F tier cuz F stand for Forces lol

[@KhaosKontroller]

Good video but bro please get a better capture card

[@Plexi.T]

I don't use a capture card, I use Radeon recording software. And unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, the video quality always looks so shit. I guess I'll just have to way until I get my new computer lol 😂

[@mober7430]

Mania should be here since obviously it was made in 2017 but you guys would probably just compare it to Superstars everytime they have a slight similarity in the level so nvm. Honestly the Superstars levels are pretty good I don’t see the problem you’re just hating just to hate. Hating on forces for having an auto scrolling section when many other Sonic games INCLUDING Sonic 3K the goat had an autoscrolling section in Lava Reef Act 1 proves my point further. HELL Mario LITERALLY HAS A AUTOSCROLLER IN ALMOST EVERY 2D game INCLUDING MARIO WONDER like DANG the bias is crazy! You can nitpick the hell out of Superstars and Forces to go as far as to say they are worse than 06 and saying Superstars is trash. YOU ARE LITERALLY NITPICKING THE SOUND Like the fact that people say 06 is good just because P-06 and Legacy of Solaris are good is absolutely ridiculous. But then we wanna praise Mania, Unleashed, and SA1 and ignore the many problems in those games. ( less of mania and more of the others) Some people even think SA2 is trash lol. “The levels lost their aura when they were brought back its just nostalgia bait” you could literally say the exact same thing for Gens and Mania 💀 Y’all act like automation is bad but it really isn’t. Trying to clear loops without automation would be hell. Hearing the nitpicks this guy comes up with are DAMAGING MY HEALTH BAR!

[@Plexi.T]

Ok, first off, I don't hate on Superstars. I say numerous times throughout the video that most of its levels are pretty underrated. Second of all, what auto scrolling section in Lava Reef zone are you talking about? If you're referring to the vertical moving platforms, then I don't consider auto-scrolling because the player controls the movement of the camera. Also, autoscrollers are fine in OTHER platformers because they're usually not focused on speed and momentum based platforming. Making the flow of gameplay more centered around other gameplay mechanics such as searching for secrets, combat with enemies, or just getting hard to reach collectibles. 3rd of all, sound effects play a MASSIVE role in game design. It's what gives your game a nice feel, good flow in between gameplay segments, and a personality to the entire project as a whole. So, me critiquing it is not a nitpick, but in fact a vital part of the gaming experience. 4th of all, yeah, you're right about the Sonic 06 defenders. People need to stop defending that game just because a fan fixed Sega's triple - A level project for them. For point 5, I've gone over many of the reasons why Sonic Mania's revamped levels are leagues better than when other Sonic games do in, in my Zone rankings video. In short, Mania adds a LOT of new gimmicks and level design features within the reused levels. Ex: The stormy rain aesthetic and skyline mechanics in flying battery zone, the syringes in Chemical Plant zone, and the expansion of the chibi mechanic in Metallic Madness. These not only make the levels more unique from the original, but some of them are so vastly different, that you can almost say they're like separate levels entirely, like I would for the case of Mania's Metallic Madness. Finally, there are plenty of indie games out there that are able to make loops and corkscrews fun WITHOUT automation. See Spark the Electric Jester 3, Rollin Rascals, and XF Extreme Formula for examples. If an indie dev can do it, surely a multi-million dollar game company can as well. I thank you for your fine comment. Have a nice day :).

[@crane2724]

Most of superstars is B-A tier how is that hate And auto scrolling can be good or bad. In 3K it’s good because it keeps up with Sonic. In forces it’s slow and doesn’t keep up with you. Also Forces levels are just really badly designed, with poor physics too. Don’t act like they’re not

[@mober7430]

@@crane2724 Ive been hearing people say the game is completely trash. Also I literally never said Forces was good or well designed lol. Im just pointing out the fact that people are acting like Forces is the only Sonic game with an autoscroller its VERY hypocritical.