Game Of Thrones Season 3 - The last Stark's plan

S03E09.
Home Box Office, Inc. All rights reserved. HBO

[@lilpeeckdopezinho3653]

Spolier: Walder Frey did not cooperate

[@sitrakaforler8696]

Plus those bastards never fought any battle out of their castles…it was a bad plan on those options. (Better plan would have been to return north or ally with stannis)

[@ninjashep5264]

@@sitrakaforler8696 Their only hope was to Ally with Stannis

[@masulubonak9275]

😂🤣 Dude ma men

[@davidmanners9076]

@@freedomprayer007 you sound so stupid first off catelyn sister already said she was not participating in the war and secondly her last name isn’t Tully anymore

[@freedomprayer007]

@@davidmanners9076 David manners man with none of it

[@earthcitizen2515]

In the books this is the scene where robb wanted to legitimise jon but catelyn refused it

[@winstonlewis5630]

And Robb still said fück her and did it anyway

[@joseeguren4645]

@@winstonlewis5630 and didint plan to attack casterly rock, he wanted to retake the north

[@winstonlewis5630]

@@joseeguren4645 yes that’s what’s weird about this scene too Robb had nowhere near the forces to take the rock going back to moat callin was a much smarter plan

[@joseeguren4645]

@@winstonlewis5630 and even if he take it he wouldn t be able to defend it

[@Bayard1503]

@@winstonlewis5630 There's nothing weird about it... you're seeing the first signs of D&D thinking they know better, ignoring real strategy and simply increasing the stakes, again and again

[@theashman4290]

“We’ll loose the war and die the way father died, or worse” 5 hours later It was worse… MUCH MUCH WORSE!!!

[@gannicusfinch7068]

*lose

[@papiroberto5523]

😭

[@kincaidwolf5184]

In this scene Rob makes his final plans (just incase Walder betrays him or he loses the war), he announces Jon Snow to be his heir and asks all the Lords to swear to it. His plan seemingly is to retake the North and skirmish in the Riverlands. For this he needs Moat Calin. Which means he needs the Freys.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

@@iEnvyPhoenix who else is there? He believes Bran, Arya and Rickon are dead. He knows Sansa has married the Lannisters Tyrion who want the North. Jon is the only one.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

@@iEnvyPhoenix Yes, in this scene in the books, Robb Stark announces to his Northern Lords that they will acknowledge Jon Snow as his heir to the Kingdom and that he is legitimised. All the Northern Lords present sign it the document. Robb Stark suspects he may die and does not wish the North to pass to Tyrion. However, shortly after virtually all the lords present are killed or captured at the Red Wedding. Also, Catelyn Stark hates the idea of Jon being the heir. Also, it's worth mentioning the Riverlords most likely won't want Jon Snow ruling them over an actual blood Tully like Sansa. The Tullys would naturally prefer one of their own over a bastard from the North.

[@julioacceus253]

@@kincaidwolf5184 Why did they cut that out?? Wouldn't that have have boosted anticipation for Jon in Season 6 even more?

[@kincaidwolf5184]

​@@julioacceus253 Nobody knows about it. All his bannermen are killed at the Red Wedding. Even if they included it, how would Jon Snow ever know? Plus, it confuses the whole Nights Watch for life vow. Robb Stark never mentions how he would get Jon out of the Night's Watch, though a handful of silver or a promise to support the Wall would have worked. Also, the story where Jon questions the Wall or his Stark family is tried twice, when first Robb goes to war and when Stannis offers him the North. Both times he refuses it. So including this scene in GoT made little sense in the story development.

[@phousefilms]

@@kincaidwolf5184 Some still know, Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover(though they're searching for Howland Reed in the Neck and no news if they've found him, given GRRM is a snail when writing.)

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

People who know what Casterly Rock actually looks like would know this plan was doomed to fail!

[@joaop4585]

Series Casterly Rock was still not awesome as book Casrterly Rock is. That thing is too huge and well protected to be taken by a solo army

[@anon_148]

they could still pillage the countryside, bringing the war to tywin's home all the same. They would also get captives, loot and supplies from the enemy territory while moving the fighting away from their own and forcing tywin to act

[@johnnyboogalo4897]

@@anon_148 That was what he was doing in the westerlands and trying to lure tywin west and it almost worked but edmure screwed that plan up by attacking tywin in batlle of the fords which made tywin march towards tyrells instead and break stannis siege.

[@DaveDexterMusic]

yeah? I was pretty underwhelmed by it when shown, since you could apparently just run up to the walls over a stretch of unbroken field

[@LalaLa-ze7kv]

It also has no gold left lol

[@therealrealSANDMAN]

He was my favourite character 😭

[@anthonyrodriguez6441]

Was?

[@anguswaterhouse9255]

@Anthony Rodriguez bros in fir a shock at the red wedding

[@loriannwhite8384]

Listening to her was the worst thing he never did.

[@bradymichel4780]

She definitely had the best political instincts although she also made the worst mistake in letting Jamie Lannister free

[@DivineBeastVahMedoh]

Jaime lannister would’ve gone free anyway once the freys betrayed the stark and with 2 hands, at least he lost a hand

[@co94]

@@bradymichel4780 Her devotion specifically to her daughters caused far more problems than Catelyn could have imagined, sadly.

[@artimuos903]

@@DivineBeastVahMedoh Tywin never risked Jaime's life in attacking Robb. The escape of Jaime is what prompted Tywin to conspiring with Freys.

[@khushirajmakala211]

@@bradymichel4780 no...she said don't send theon.. But he didn't listened that costed them

[@MCL003]

Robbs plan in the books is a lot more smarter than this plan. In fact this plan is actually pretty dumb. Robb would lose way to many men from trying to siege casterly rock for 1 thing the second being he would then have to try and fend of the tyrells and other Lannister forces in the east with a even more reduced army In the books Robb planned to sneak his men through the neck to retake moat calin from the north and then take his north men to liberate the north while the river lords defended the river lands until he got back But well we all saw how that turned out 😬

[@Jerome761]

In season 7, Tyrion’s plan was to also take casterly rock. The show had a desire for SOMEONE to take it, even though it was practically useless

[@kincaidwolf5184]

It was game over for Robb Stark. Even if he had taken the North back, he had to contend with the Lannister, Tyrell Army in the Riverlands. Which would number 100-150k. Not to mention most of the Stormlands had come over to the Lannisters. Robb Stark only option was to abandon the Riverlands and hold at Mout Calin.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

@@Jerome761 Poor writing by the writers. Once the book material finished the plot went arse.

[@Jerome761]

@@kincaidwolf5184 too true man, too true

[@romanzusman2892]

@@kincaidwolf5184 absolutely! Robb was too young And prideful to realize that this was not a blitzkrieg, but the war of Attrition!

[@Aztecius]

Robb: if Walder Frey cooperates... Narrator: he didn't

[@richardroopnarine870]

It was a terrible plan. Casterly Rock was a great natural defensive position

[@richardkrilljr.8711]

If only Robb had known about Tyrion’s underground whore tunnel haha !! It was a terrible plan for sure lol !

[@Revoluciona41]

also Robb and Cait talk about gold... it is mentioned in one of the episodes that the Lannister gold mines ran dry a long time ago and the crown gets money from the Iron Bank... so even if they were able to capture the Rock (unlikely) it wasnt as valueable as they thought :)

[@redrover1172]

@@Revoluciona41 I always liked the idea of them taking the castle, going to the vaults and finding them completely empty.

[@jasonphoenix292]

@@Revoluciona41 which is a pure D & D bullshit. The mines never ran dry in books. If it did, Tyrion would have known about it. Also, Varies and a host of other characters.

[@birb7661]

@@Revoluciona41 The Lannisters still control Lannisport and the rest of the West, do you really think they only get money from the mines? lol Besides, even if it ran dry, that doesn't mean all the money they have dissapears. They are still filthy rich.

[@VS-mn4tv]

If Walder Frey co operates

[@user-ee5eb7ku4j]

Mom: what are the odds? Rob: 1% chance 99% faith Mom: ok, let's do it

[@user-zc1ht1ky6m]

😂

[@lordsidious83]

You can actuallly pinpoint the moment robb lost the war. The moment he executed lord karstark. for once edmure was right. If he kept him as a hostage, he would never have had to go to the twins and would have at least had a chance

[@joeelliott2810]

karstark told him straight up “ once you married that girl you already lost” or some shit.

[@Legacy0901]

It's actually very fortunate that Robb never got a chance to execute this plan as we later learn that the mines at Casterly Rock have run dry. Forget trusting Theon and reneging on his promise to the Freys, THIS blunder would have immediately lost the war

[@Heroesflorian]

Who cares about the mines at casterly rock... Robb would have failed conquering it anyway and most likely either died or being forced to flee/retreat before ever taking a look at the mines.

[@anon_148]

He could have raided/burned the westerlands which was a good way to force tywin's hand and maybe straight up make him agree to terms

[@yyakaemun]

Tywin would have laughed hearing this strategy, would've called him a fool. To conquer a hold for gold that has none anymore and to take the Lannister home which is merely an asset for Tywin, just like everything else.

[@DivineBeastVahMedoh]

One thing i don’t understand is why there aren’t Fish battle figurines along with all the other vassal men of House Tully and Stark, they always made it seems like House Tully was not even helping Robb, it’s two great houses allied not just House Stark. Additionally House Tyrell should’ve offered Robb marriage to Margaery and they would’ve removed the Lannisters from power immediately, also imagine if Lysa had helped them smh

[@hughmungus1235]

It’s not real lad

[@artimuos903]

What will Tyrell going to gain from marrying Margaery to Robb, North is Isolated and poor and has different religion joining with Baratheons and Lannisters made Margeary Queen of seven kingdoms.

[@pabloluisalcala-velasco4727]

The show dumbed down alot of the plots and secondary characters

[@samiam1059]

@@hughmungus1235 Then why don't you stop wasting your time and get out cuz it's an imaginary show?

[@Allegiancy]

@@hughmungus1235 Doesn’t matter

[@reptilian5651]

lady idiot: show them how it feels to lose what they love Lannisters: *uno reverse card*

[@DivineBeastVahMedoh]

tf u mean idiot

[@jasonphoenix292]

@@DivineBeastVahMedoh because Catelyn Stark is responsible for most of the problems and deaths of the Starks. She started the war of the 5 kings, which resulted in her husbands death, let Jaime Lannister go, which resulted in the Karstarks leaving, thus making Roose Bolton change his alliance, and a shit lode of other fuck ups

[@Belthazor24]

@@jasonphoenix292 How did she start the war?? Lord Glover was the one who suggested crowing Robb King in the North. Joffrey incited the war in the first place by imprisoning and beheading Ned Stark. Yes, Catelyn made mistakes, but she didn't cause the war. Yes, capturing Tyrion sped things up and caused the fight between Jaime and Ned in the streets, but she was working off of Littlefinger's false information. For all she knew, Tyrion had tried to have her son killed. Her chief mistake was trusting a childhood friend who happened to be Littlefinger. The real idiots of the War of Five Kings were the Greyjoys who can't seem to learn a lesson no matter how many times it's taught to them and the Lannister commanders who kept losing to a teenager.

[@artimuos903]

@@Belthazor24 At least she could have known how Tywin would react to the imprisonment of his son and should have brought Tyrion to Kings Landing. And yes letting Jaime Lannister escape is the reason Tywin conspired with Boltons and Freys, otherwise he never tried to attack Robb.

[@Belthazor24]

@@artimuos903 Tywin didn't much seem to care about Tyrion. Jaime was the only one who wanted him back. And again, she took Tyrion because she believed he'd tried to have her son murdered. Which, again, was because of Littlefinger. Catelyn Stark was manipulated to do what she did. She was tricked. And again, that's not what started the war. Cersei having Robert killed and Ned subsequently arrested was what started the war. Ned was falsely imprisoned and his men were murdered, so Robb called the banners. And by the way, Tyrion was already free by this time. Catelyn didn't start anything.

[@AlexUnderhill1]

9 years on and this was still the most hype I felt in the show, the scene before where Robb has the idea, “I’m going to take their home from them!” SO SO wish it happened! 😢

[@therealrealSANDMAN]

It felt so natural that he got to kick Tywin’s ass and become a top 3 player in Westeros, I was so hyped to see that, then we got the Stark armageddon

[@NRV0]

I personally think this plan was doomed to fail as well. Casterly Rock is fortress very hard to take. I honestly think they wouldn't be able to take it before the Crown's army came up behind them.

[@cashloans8584]

Just like ned stark said ..rob is just a boy.

[@mohit6657]

Boy who almost made house Lannister extinct just failed because of poor political skills.

[@davidmanners9076]

@@mohit6657 “almost made house Lannister extinct” that’s an exaggeration

[@MikeJones-iy5vl]

@@davidmanners9076 The Lannister’s lost more than the starks did shockingly enough. Should’ve married the Frey Girl outright and attack Tywin at Harrenhal.

[@davidmanners9076]

@@MikeJones-iy5vl what Rob stark lost more than the lannisters did he lost the north winterfell he lost half his army there was discontent amongst the northern lords

[@MikeJones-iy5vl]

@@davidmanners9076 Half his army walked off they didn’t die. I believe they’re referring to actual deaths not just people walking off.

[@robinlavoie3467]

Rob thought he was safe with Freys and Boltons at his back just like Ned though he was safe with city watch at his back

[@Michaelkayslay]

He should have just marched back north. Taking moat cailyn and ruled

[@jasonphoenix292]

How? He would have to go through the Twins to get to Moat Cailin. Either way, the Freys had to be dealt with.

[@paulkruger2003]

In the books, this was his plan...

[@jonstark153]

That was his plan in the real story, not to rule bt strike after taking back winterfell by summoning the clanmen ,greenmen and raising another host

[@Michaelkayslay]

@@jonstark153 why didn’t the northern clans march with Robb ?

[@kincaidwolf5184]

@@Michaelkayslay They did, but you don't send all your forces to war. You keep some behind for the harvest, and for defence.

[@hilriekemp]

Rob just kept Fing up

[@23mrtito]

"If we take Tywins castle from him, The lords of Westeros will realize he is not invincible, take his home, take his Gold, take his Power" Haha if this plan actually worked, the Starks would of realized that the lannisters are broke 😂🤭 their true power was already in their name and in Kings Landing with the Tyrells

[@anwynoakenshield]

Both the plan, and Tywin being broke, are only show plots. In the book, Robb was planning to go back North and Casterly Rock is still very wealthy.

[@sumitkumar-se2ps]

In the books Robb calls roose Bolton with all the North men and departed with 3500 northmen from River run to twins, after alliance with Frey, he will have nearly 12000 men and he had commanded to meage mormnt and glover to take 2 ship from seagard of Mallister and sail them to crongmen hawland Reed and tell him to meet Robb near greywater watch with his boats because there are so many hidden ways that are not in the maps only known by crongmen so that Robb can take his few hundred men to North of the Moat calin and rest of his men will attack South of the Moat calin roose Bolton will command rear guard great jon will command van and Robb will lead attack from the North, the greyjoy garrison defend Moat from South and Robb will take Moat calin from North because Moat calin is vulnerable from North. That was the plan but Bolton was planning with Frey and tywin, if Bolton had not betrayed Robb, he would have win back north.

[@wailee9407]

Even if he took Casterly Rock, what would that achieve? The Lannisters and Tyrell still have the numbers.

[@freebird264]

Once you've read the books, you realise how D&D were making stupid decisions from a lot earlier than Season 5. Robb's plan makes very little actual sense here or is likely to succeed. By this point, we haven't seen Casterly Rock in the show yet so we can only assume it looks how it does in the books - absolutely gigantic, taller than the Wall, virtually impregnable, basically if Harrenhal was built into a mountain. Robb had half the men he'd originally marched south with and would've lost more than half of what he had left trying to siege or storm the castle. And even if he had taken it, he would've spent all his manpower marching and capturing it, leaving the Riverlands complete undefended and he would've found himself surrounded by Tyrell forces from the south and Lannister reinforcements marching from the east.

[@nickn.6238]

The biggest mistake he did , Ask his widow sad desperate mom !

[@shaybarihen9988]

"Walder frey cooperates"... Airbnb: Walder frey!

[@user-rr4fk5ok7m]

Even with Walder Frey's army it would have been at most a 1 in 10 chance to take Casterly Rock and only if everything went perfectly to plan. The Rock was almost as impregnable as The Eyrie, which is literally impossible to be taken, if it is properly guarded. The only chance of capturing The Rock would have been to eventually pass through some tunnels, surprise the western army and open the gates from inside. Nobody in Robb's army had knowledge of such hidden passages obviously.

[@no_one8224]

How come North has such a less Army? It is bigger than rest of the kingdoms.. Tywin gives Half of his forces to Jamie, so Jaime has 10000 more soldiers than entire North. Even Tyrell, Baratheon, Martell has far bigger Army than North

[@v.hamilton5679]

Russia is 5 times the size of India. But India has 10 times more people. Get it?

[@no_one8224]

@@v.hamilton5679 yes but in this case North has similar population as Westerlands(according to theories)

[@v.hamilton5679]

@@no_one8224 apparently the Reach has 3 times more population than the North. However, no official numbers, just theories based on the size of military and comparison to medieval Europe.

[@danielsilvadesouza3060]

Population is not only it. The south has more fertile lands and perhaps a better military infraestructure. The north is too empty perhaps and most of its population may not be ready for a war.

[@elkssr]

Because these 20000 men Robb summoned were the closest to winterfell vassals and some troops have been left in fortresses in the whole North

[@squamish4244]

Imma let you finish, Imma let you finish, but first I gotta marry this chick who ain't Walder Frey's daughter.

[@richtea615]

Casterly Rock turned out to be worthless, as Daenerys found out.

[@tazkannon7403]

Show Casterly Rock is disgusting

[@barkley8285]

How many troops does each one of those have?

[@LukeKetchum7003]

2,000 I'm guessing.

[@onkartiwari6006]

Starks had 20000

[@johnnyboogalo4897]

Each piece on the map is one thousand each so robb had 10,000 men if the freys joined him not enough to win the war tbh he was screwed either way but in the books he wanted to march north to rebuild his forces and take it back from the ironborn.Only needed the freys to cross the trident faster so gave them edmure but he got betrayed in the end

[@jimsty5222]

@@johnnyboogalo4897 he knew he didn't have enough troops to beat the Lannister/Tryell alliance but he still thought there was a chance to win the war if he took Castely Rock. Even if winning the North's independence seemed hopeless, he believed if he took Tywin's castle from him, the other great lords of Westero's and their vasels would possibly withdraw their support from the Lannister ruled Iron Throne and maybe join to their side in the rebellion. It was definitely a hail mary, but really, he had no other options but to trust the Frey's and try to put the Lannister's on defense for once.

[@John-li2qi]

Each is probably a regiment. More than likely 1-3 thousand troops.

[@daneoman1000]

Robb should have just lay siege to the twins and taking out Walder by force.

[@IRHasDiabetes911]

Kind of hard to get Frey men to replenish your numbers if you kill all the Frey men. He didn't care about the twins, he cared about getting more troops.

[@gazof-the-north5708]

If I was Robb, I would have forgiven Catelyn for freeing Jaime BUT I would NOT have shared any tactical info or battle plans with her. And I would have puckered up and married the Frey girl as promised.......

[@anwynoakenshield]

In the book, he does forgive her. And he marries Jeyne because of honor more than romance.

[@dylanmatusek6477]

And then he goes on take the Iron Throne, the end

[@DevilCryno]

And he would have done it too, if it wasn't for those meddling traitors!

[@stevenlovejoy6838]

Lol this scene just legitimizes how far behind the Starks really were in their strategy. The think that by taking Casterly Rock the Lannisters would be weakened and be forced to respond because it's their family home and honor demands it. The Lannisters wouldn't have cared if the plan succeeded. First off, the castle is well defended so Robb would need a powerful army that would take a lot of casualties. Secondly, the Lannisters rule King's Landing which is a prize 100x better than Casterly Rock. As Jaime later points out when Dany seizes it, Casterly Rock is worthless. The gold mines have run dry and it holds no strategic value. It's the Stalingrad of Westeros. If Robb took it he couldn't hold on to it. By then his forces were fractured thanks to Cat releasing Jaime and the Ironborn pillaging the North. Tywin would've just bided his time and attacked as Robb was retreating with a combined Lannister-Tyrell-Martell army.

[@rc59191]

You should of just went home Robb and held the North.

[@jenniferm2884]

I kind of wish dany and rob had worked together instead , I feel like they had more of a common goal in wanting to destroy the south

[@maxwella.gamingps4631]

Fr lol however, Danny was preocupied with her kindom in Essos, and she also hated The Starks equally so, she was enjoying the fact that they were destroying each other.

[@faisalkamal4319]

When Catelyn stark plays the game of thrones good people die

[@user-lc1du9sd6k]

Чет близко к серцу принимают это

[@mijanhoque1740]

Crazy thing here but what if Robb hired a mercenary company like the Golden Company and their elephants with his war efforts. Since Lysa and the vale won’t help the Golden Company would be a huge advantage.

[@kincaidwolf5184]

Why would they fight for Robb Stark?

[@alexmunoz3261]

1 no money 2 golden company too far 3 lannisters would make them change teams the second they arrived to westeros I think Robb could had asked the iron bank but in that moment the lannisters still payed them properly so it would've gone into nothing tho

[@camerontoy8154]

Robb doesn’t have ships to bring them to westeros

[@PRubin-rh4sr]

The North doesnt strike me as a wealthy region, even the richest lords there are probably beggars compared to the Westerland lords

[@ricardoandre7049]

White Harbour is home to the northern fleet so they do indeed have ships. It's not as many as the Iron born or the lannister fleet but it's still like the 3rd or 4th in the westerosi part of the narrow sea behind the vale, the fleets of the crowlands, possibly the dornish.

[@abdulrhmanelnaas855]

Cat really is a monster.

[@wieczny2691]

cersei: am i joke to you

[@Ronfost89]

This was a shit plan and would have ended with what was left (probably not much) of the entire northern army under siege with no supply chain. One of the bits of bad writing in season 3.

[@mlxiixlm]

Get rekt