Game of Thrones WHAT IF: Catelyn Loved Jon Snow

What if Catelyn Stark knew who Jon Snow's parents were and actually LOVED him? What would've happened or changed in Westeros? Let me tell you NOW!
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[@madambutterfly1997]

You know you're a terrible person if you treat your prisoner-of-war better than you treat your own son

[@antoniobentivoglio4488]

But Jon wasn't her son...what does that mean??

[@wesleymartins5970]

The prisioner is worth something.

[@TheUnseenPath]

But he wasn't treated like a prisoner though.

[@ballpoint7887]

Do you mean how Catelyn treated Jon? She treated Jon poorly because he was a reminder of Ned's infidelity. That would be like Robert trying to love Jon.

[@festuskrell3597]

She also felt like Jon was a stain on her honour.

[@UnBroken11100]

This isn't part of the show...but I wonder how Lady Stoneheart will react if she finds out about Jon's parentage? I wonder if her stone heart will feel again once she knows that Ned never cheated on her? If perhaps that is what will enable her to "rest in peace"? Would be an interesting moment if after she find out that Jon wasn't Ned's, and if Jon dies again, that she uses her "last kiss" to bring him back. A mother's love finally being given. sniff sniff lol

[@TheBattProductions]

I'm very curious myself. I'm thinking it won't ultimately change for her, but man I'm sure there'll be some tear drop if/when she heard about Jon's parentage! Nice! :)

[@kevinmatamoros8513]

That's super awesome girl. Actually like this. Whao. Thanks.

[@mygenericyoutubecommentis1605]

I just hope she doesn't kill Jaime fookin Lannister

[@willnotez6976]

The ultimate redemption story for her

[@JacktheRah]

That would be great. It would be a bittersweet thing for a song of ice and fire.

[@MoreTravelPlease]

I feel like Cat would be too prideful and when someone was being rude about her husbands cheating she'd reveal it wasn't true

[@TheBattProductions]

Very possible -- she is a prideful wench

[@jovalin5939]

But remember Cat's family words, Family, Duty, Honor. Family comes first. All the mistakes she made were because she was putting her family before her duty. She'd understand Ned protecting his family, doing his duty to his sister, and honoring her by protecting his nephew.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

@Zayni Pie As long as Ned, Catelyn and everyone else directly involved all swore that Jon WAS Robb's twin, who would dare question it? Especially since Robb and Jon looked like they could be brothers; not all same-sex twins are identical. They could simply say Jon was the younger twin.

[@LaruskaLara]

Omg so true

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Being the known hothead she was, Catelyn would've gotten angry and given everything away the first time anyone dared call Jon a bastard in her presence.

[@Maria-sg4zy]

Catelyn, made a lot of stupid moves, I don't blame Ned, for not trusting his wife to keep that secret.

[@TheBattProductions]

Same here. I don't blame him at all

[@nvmfirezactaylor6035]

Wrong

[@sleekoduck]

She would have told Lysa, who would have told Littlefinger.

[@nvmfirezactaylor6035]

@@sleekoduck where are you getting this that she would've told Lysa? She hadn't talked to her in years. And how? Send a raven with the most secretive information in the country?

[@sleekoduck]

@@nvmfirezactaylor6035 read the books. It might give you something to do instead of trolling the comments section on KZbin videos.

[@michelledeconceicao4235]

What if Lyanna had told her family that she went with Rhaegar willingly OR What if Ned had told everyone Jon’s true heritage before he died (like instead of proclaiming that Joffrey was the true king. He says to everyone that Jon is the true king) OR What if Ned had saved Elia and her kids from The Mountain OR What if Jon became a knight and eventually joined the Kingsguard instead of the watch OR What if Sansa told the truth about what happened with Joffrey, Arya and Mycha at the lake OR What if Bran and Rickon had gone to the wall as planned OR What if Jon had found Bran and Rickon while they were hiding in that tower before he left the Wildlings

[@easyevil5943]

Dude that second on sounds cold af 🥶. Joffrey - proclaim me king then you'll have my mercy. Varys - proclaim joffrey king for the good of the realm and your children Ned on the the block - A wolf needs no mercy from a lion cub, for the good of the realm and for the love of my children I proclaim my nephew and the son of my sister and rhaegar targaryen, jon snow the true king of westeros.

[@katiecabrera10400]

What if Danaerys’ son Rhaego had lived?

[@Kaizerchief11]

The potential Stallion Who Mounts the World would be around 5 years old.

[@silverblade357]

We'd miss out in dragons.

[@GiaJoseph07]

Rhaego lives but Khal dies anyway? We still have had dragons

[@coldhands2802]

Mirri maz durr did nothing wrong. I'm glad she killed both of them.

[@komodovah6433]

What if Robb decided to execute Jaime when he was a prisoner?

[@TheBattProductions]

Good one my friend! I like that idea

[@Plagueis_The_Wise]

Komodovah -- A part of me wishes he did, since they executed Ned. But I've actually grown to like Jaime a great deal. Even more than Tyrion, lol. Can't stand Cersei in the SLIGHTEST though. She's too much of a spightful moron, and condescending.

[@therealsamasima]

They would've lost Sansa and the war.

[@mohamedn7587]

Sansa will die that's it

[@Outlaw8908]

@@therealsamasimaDon’t think they would have. It would have made Tywin look weak.

[@gitanursiwi5469]

what if cersei and jamie born dwarf and tyrion is 6 feet tall?

[@ximkai8794]

@74kjohnson yea, she was a dwarf too. Actually, everyone is a dwarf besides tyrion.

[@jacobwilson9114]

@@ximkai8794 that's a Rick and Morty sketch.

[@ximkai8794]

@@jacobwilson9114 I stopped watching somewhere in season 2, but that sounds hilarious.

[@grizzlymelon8376]

Depends i think, if he didn`t "kill his mother by choosing to be born" and she was still around, or got "killed" by one of her other kids, Tywin would`ve deeply valued Tyrion as he should always have been. We all know genius he is (except for the last few seasons, tnx D&D) and there`d be no disputing him becoming heir of Casterly Rock, and might even have started the show as head of the house (i think it was implied Tywin was ready to quit a good while before). The question remains if he would still have been the kind man he usually would be, there`d be much more opportunity for him to take after his father personality wise since they`d be closer and he would never have gotten in that Tysha situation to begin with either (in fact, he wouldn`t have the entire whoring and drinking persona we all know and love). Almost even more importantly, Robert Baratheon would never have married a dwarf, so at least he would`ve never gotten cucked by Cercei, thus no gold haired "Baratheon" children on the throne, hell, none of them would exist in the first place, so no Geoffry either. (In fact, i imagine the push to make Tyrion rule Casterly Rock would`ve only come sooner then, because Tyrion would be the only one of Tywin`s kids that could`ve gotten easily married for to make children for more failsafe heirs. Then again without Jaime (no way a dwarf would make it all the way to Kingsguard, unless his first name is Gimli), Aegon the mad king would`ve lit up King`s Landing with wildfire like a fuel-air bomb. Tywin Lannister would`ve died because he and his forces were inside Kings Landing (definitely making Tyrion heir way earlier) at the time and so was Ned Stark so he would have parrished as well, making Benjen Stark the heir to Winterfell. Now i don`t know if the deal between the Starks and Tully`s would`ve fallen through, i don`t know if Benjen was at marriageable age but regardless, Robb, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Sansa, none of them would exist then. There`d be different children. (no wait, Robb was conceived before he went to war, so he would exist, the rest wouldn`t. But the deal between the Tully`s and the Starks would`ve been settled through him). With Kings Landing blown the fuck up, i doubt there`d be many Targaryan loyalists left after that point, but if so, they`d be weeded out even more ruthlessly then you could imagine after that atrocity. Daenerys and Vyseris would`ve been hounded even more harshly and possibly have gotten killed off. And i`m just talking random people with less sympathy for them here, not even anyone Robert would send after them because he not only doesn`t have Ned to stemmy the flow of rage somewhat, Ned, the man he considers blood brother was dead. He`d start to sport a green hue from all the rage and hatred. As for Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryan, i don`t think he would`ve gotten discovered by Stark men, or bannermen. I don`t think he`d be discovered at all. So his mother would`ve still died in childbirth, so he`d be either shipped off to places unknown to one day reclaim the throne if possible (since his half-Martell brother and sister would be charcoal). Or another possibility would be that he got raised by the Sword of the Mornings sister who miscarriaged a while back, they could make some bullshit up surrounding that. John already looks like her and it`d be a way for Arthur Dayne to keep a close eye on the son of his best friend. TL;DL: a bunch of bullshit.

[@Karen-zv4hf]

I wonder if Tyrion would've been as intelligent as he is as a dwarf. He's always read books and developed his knowledge to compensate for being a dwarf. I doubt he would've been stupid like Cersei, but he probably wouldn't be as smart as he is.

[@magister343]

What if Tyrion took the Black before his trial for Joffrey's murder?

[@TheBattProductions]

That's an excellent idea my dude!

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Cersei would send him with an “honor guard”, and with a chaotic seas and him being so small “accidents” could happen such as falling over

[@ww-zb7qn]

CrouchingTigress01 I think that he would refuse the guard and he would take bronn as his guard

[@magister343]

Why would Bronn the mercenary agree to take an unpaid job in which she is not allowed to own any property or be with any women?

[@ww-zb7qn]

magister343 I meant that he would go with him as his guard to the wall and then do his own stuff

[@joseanemaria]

I really believe that if Catelyn knew about Jon's story she would not have let him go to the wall because she knows it's safer for her children to have that cousin who can claim the throne. He would have stayed in Winterfell with Catelyn, who would treat him well because she knows who he is, and when they went to kingslanding and discovered the ned's death they would support Jon's claim to the throne. so they would not even reach the red wedding because that agreement would not have been made.

[@emperorpalpatine2957]

When it comes down to it it's up to Ned to let him go and Ned is a guy who would let people do what they want if it's honorable. And serving in the night's watch is considered Honorable to him.

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

@@emperorpalpatine2957 yeah if he still wanted to go..... which he likely would not. he wanted to go to prove himself and seen it as his only path as a bastard badly treated by his step mother (cat) and 'half' sister (sansa)..... and in the books he when as cat outright state she would throw him out of winterfell when ned left

[@magister343]

What if Maester Aemon accepted the Iron Throne?

[@swagbanterlol181]

magister343 he has done it

[@haymaker710]

What if Tywin loved Tyrion?

[@mhmdmar]

Jon Haymaker lanister rules and dominate westeros for 2 generation atlear ot until white walker kill them all

[@magister343]

What if the Sand Snakes plot to crown Myrcella worked?

[@BenelB]

im more interested in what if that cute sand snake (i forget all their names) meets bronn again im thinking month long sex session

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

I'm not sure Tyene Sand would actually have done anything with Bronn; she seemed more interested in tormenting him a'la Joffrey Baratheon.

[@BenelB]

lol, couldve been a tease, could be she likes older men who knows?

[@CrouchingTigress01]

That is a good question! If i had to guess their would be a huge division just like with the dance of the dragons, but as Myrcella's strength wouldn't match the iron thrones she would lose and probably be punished by being made into a septa or silent sister

[@themutualfriend5286]

@@BenelB haha she's called tyene and me thinks you're right.

[@Chips1914]

Jon snow could avoid the Red wedding if he had been sent north to deal with the iron born.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

As Rob seemed like he was gunna name Jon his heir in the books, i'd guess he'd send Jon to take back Winterfell (and kick Theon's butt). He would never risk his heir's safety; however, they didn't know they were gunna be betrayed so...

[@daveadams3795]

If Jon Snow was around, the red wedding probably wouldn't have happened. Knowing him, he would have talked Robb out of breaking the marriage pact in the first place.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Dave Adams how would he break it? Have him marry as well? Even if he was a legalized bastard, he’d still be a bastard and larger insult than marrying the lord or river run

[@daveadams3795]

Jon would have pointed out to Robb that he was already betrothed to a Frey and that marrying the person he lost his V card to was a bad idea and highly dishonorable in dear departed Ned's eyes.

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

@@daveadams3795 or no deal with the frey in the first place (the frey where infamous for away being on the winning side and waiting to place a side till near the end)or it would have been jon leading the army that roose lead in the books and show ( which mean no throwing loyal stark troops to the Lannisters )

[@snowflakeking]

I agree with most of that except I don't think jon would have been at the Red Wedding. I think Rob would have sent him insted of Ramsey to retake Winterfell. So the north would have stayed in Stark hands.

[@johnpotts8308]

Given his age, I think he might have been left as the Stark in Winterfell when Robb went South (even if he's a Snow rather than a Stark). Which would mean the Ironborn probably don't take Winterfell, the Boltons never take over the North and Bran never goes into the Land of Always Winter (I'll stop there).

[@WildeMermaid]

​@@johnpotts8308 agreed

[@ivanbluecool]

What if arya killed joffrey at the ruby river.

[@alphariusomegon3965]

ivanbluecool well she would have been killed most likely and I'm sure ned would start a war with the crown cause his daughter more important then his friend

[@ivanbluecool]

Zyruss Villarreal I guess. But nobody saw. Sansa could blame mika and sansa could grow to hate arya for losing hee chance to be queen. It could lead them to try to kill it each early on.

[@alphariusomegon3965]

ivanbluecool lets be real her sansa would rat out arya in a heart beat if she wouldn't even tell the truth about how joffrey started the fight why wouldn't she say arya killed him

[@ivanbluecool]

Zyruss Villarreal she said she didn't see. I'm sure it would be blamed on mika and mini cat sansa would be more ruthless or quiet. Perhaps with tommen being king would lead to the downfall of lings landing with stannis or if ned still gets captured ned would be sent to the wall instead and see Jon instead of dying

[@swagbanterlol181]

That was mine

[@sarrahlogsdon1475]

One other thing I have to say is that his very character would probably be different. He would have been raised as one of their own, treated more fairly. He would have received Catelyn's love and not her hatred. The other children would probably have followed suit... I mean Arya and the brother's seemed fine, yet Sansa was not very nice to him... This treatment molded him, made him want to prove himself. It even humbled him. If he were treated like he were the "secret" heir to the iron throne instead of the bastard son of Ned Stark, well he would have been a different man altogether. He would have been far more arrogant and self-entitled, and that is NOT the Jon Snow we need, nor know and love.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

I think you're right, but do you also think this would have changed who Jon's great love would be? Its clear he has a thing for red heads, and so do you think Cat would try and have him promised to Sansa (secretly of course)? I know it would raise eyebrows, but once his true parentage came out it would make sense and it would consolidate power for the Stark's and Tully's as well.

[@sarrahlogsdon1475]

They possibly could have... and as far as the red-headed thing... Dany's not a red-head... No matter how you feel about that relationship... and who's to say what they could have TRIED with them, however... if Catelyn and/or Ned died anyways... they wouldn't have been around to enforce Jon and Sansa getting married anyways... However, I could see at least Catelyn seeing the sense behind it (reinforcing the bonds with an alliance with the throne). I would think Ned would probably have been a bit hesitant though...

[@CrouchingTigress01]

You make a great point ^__^ On top of that, they would have had to have faith that the secret wouldn't spread any further or have the decisions questioned. Ned might not be a great player of the game but he would understand what it would look like to the other northern lords: a bastard brother marrying a sister- but don't worry my lords, the gods say it's cool.

[@scipiosholarsii8848]

Sansa is Jon cousin by blood. Incest in the North is frowned upon unless you're the cutthroat Walder

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

thats not a given. We've seen Targaryen princes, eldest sons etc and they are not all arrogant or entitled. Rhaegar wasn't, Robb's not. Breakspear would have been a great king. Willas Tyrell is going to be a great lord etc

[@starrchika]

Do "what if Sansa left with Breanne of Tarth, instead of Littlefinger?

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

brienne takes her to the Wall to see Jon. but jon would probably be in the mist of the hardhome business. then jon is killed, and Sansa sees him brought to life. since they ditched baelish, Sansa would need to ask Robin directly for the Vale army, or travel to go see him (they have teleportation, its fine).

[@glenjacobs9296]

What if Aerys Targaryen succesfully burned down The whole King's Landing??

[@TheBattProductions]

That's a terrifying thought my dude

[@thearmada6248]

Well Tywin, Jamie, thousands of soldiers and people living in king landing would be dead.z

[@samdoesvids1339]

TheBattProductions just wait till season 8!

[@kragespawn6669]

@@samdoesvids1339 predicted it lol

[@peterholden2016]

What if Theon got the ship captain's daughter pregnant?

[@chip_da_rip4283]

oh shit that would change the whole show

[@grobytill4302]

Kenneth Ullman 😂

[@CrouchingTigress01]

He might have. Theon says in the books they had been having sex most of the trip so his bastard probably is in her belly, and a girl fitting the caps daughter 's description is seen walking around with a child and lots of bodyguards

[@wafflingmean4477]

Theon's probably got a bastard or two already.

[@adammay3392]

@@wafflingmean4477 probably to them it's not a big deal

[@lobbyfisher5787]

No matter what I think if Jon was in any terrible pain Catilyn would have worried for him she cared for him once before because she didnt want to see him suffer, she had a spot of love for Jon even if it was deep down and hidden away

[@magister343]

What if Maester Aemon abandoned the Watch after Roberts Rebellion and fled to Esus to raise Viserys and Denaerys?

[@angelwhispers2060]

Viserys might not have been a jerk. But I think per the rules of the book and the show maester aemon was only really being kept Alive by the magic of the wall so even that wouldn't last very long.

[@blitzkrieg2928]

But when the Lannisters have Arya and Sansa , Catelyn could expose and trade Jon for them.

[@kyleshaw8868]

They would also have Jamie.

[@jofrn294]

I don't think she would though. Ned did everything in his power to protect Jon. Catelyn wouldn't turn Jon in for Ned's memory's sake.

[@ronshaywalker1404]

Ellyn Ever Sweet she legit prayed to her gods to snuff an innocent life then felt bad gave her word and went back on it I don’t put it pass her

[@therealsamasima]

@@jofrn294 she literally told Jon he should've fallen instead of Bran and wished him the worst

[@angelwhispers2060]

@@jofrn294 Caitlin gave 0 shifts about Neds memory. She would have traded Jaime Lannister and John to get her true born daughters back no questions asked.

[@lizalou2938]

What if summer hall never caught fire?

[@joshuasepeda3289]

I think Ned just didn't trust her at the time. He didn't want to take the risk that Catelyn would betray him and turn Jon over to Robert. When Cersei asked Ned if he loved his children and what he would do for them, Ned thought about Catelyn and what she might do if she had to choose between Jon and her children. He prayed he wouldn't find out and I think that even after he learned to trust Catelyn, he still didn't want to risk Jon's safety and a war with Robert. We all know it would mean war between Robert and Ned if Jon's identity were revealed. Also, I sincerely believe he would have been the one sent to take back Winterfell and the North would have stayed in Stark hands.

[@paulajames3937]

😉....What if Ned Stark was fostered at Casterly Rock?

[@famousmadlad6361]

What if Tyrion left with Shae to Pentos

[@magister343]

What if Joffrey had been born a dwarf?

[@CrouchingTigress01]

He'd never be able to get a head in life ^__^ No really, they would probably tease him the same way Tyrion is/was, which would feed his cruelty towards others or even killed in an "accident" while still an infant as a kindness/ disgust by Cersie.

[@magister343]

I was thinking Robert might have been more eager to believe he was a bastard too, and perhaps legitimize Edric Storm to be his heir.

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Good point, but he did also voice that when Bran was hurt, he should have been killed. Now Robert was in his cups at the time, but this could show he's willing to put down a child that he believed wouldn't survive in there wicked world, even seeing it as a kindness.

[@demowomble6438]

You are a genius

[@silverblade357]

Micah would have kicked his ass!

[@AB-om2te]

Interesting. But, my greatest what if question is what if Joanna Lannister was still alive after Tyrion’s birth? Would Tywin’s attitude be changed towards his kids or other things? What would Joanna do in Games of Thrones? Would she tell Cersei that she is an idiot?

[@arkcliref]

It'll be more interesting once you know that she knew how the twins act...

[@magister343]

What if Lysa eloped with Littlefinger instead of marrying Jon Arryn?

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Littlefinger wouldn't elope with Lysa because he has only loved one woman... Cat

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Good point, but what if Hoster Tully had forced Littlefinger to marry Lysa when he got her pregnant instead of making Lysa abort the child?

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Jennifer Brewer that is a good one but sadly probably be the same. Little finger was from nothing, and it would bring shame to his house even if he let the marriage happen and he could only try after he’d raised higher in status. That’s why he couldn’t marry Sansa she was too highborn for someone like him, even if she was a traitors daughter (which should bring her down, but...)

[@Jon_Rylee]

Now what if Randyll Tarly loved Sam?

[@eliablair6737]

What if Walder Frey let Robb go and took Cat prisoner?

[@muxeca9700]

The main point of red wedding was to kill Robb... He can say "mayhaps I will let him go" and kill him outside.

[@ushikucrisafulli]

Great video. I have a suggestion: What if Jaime were forced to take the black after Robert’s Rebellion?

[@davidweihe6052]

Joffrey would have had black Baratheon hair, but otherwise been as much an SOB. Ned might have resigned as Hand shortly after Robert's death and gone North with no problems, and Tywin would resume his office as Hand, especially if Ned had recommended it to Joffrey. Now, there is an interesting question of would the Night's Watch Ser Jaime Lannister been as much of an asshole as he seemed before his first PoV chapter in the books? And would Cersei have figured out how to kill Tyrion without Tywin realizing it? Given less chaos in Weseros, could Dany have had a chance (or Young Griff, if you are reading the books) of at least making a play at the Throne?

[@austinholler8094]

David Weihe ehhhhh maybe not quite as much of an SOB cause the whole incest thing is supposed to play a hand in the becoming the becoming a psychopath thing. This is why Targaryens are prone to go “mad” because of their generations of keeping their bloodlines pure through incest.

[@paulajames3937]

What if Jon Aryn survived his poisoning?😀

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Arryn was a smart man, he'd probably realize it was Lysa either due to her shocked behavior or putting it together. Now the question is, would he realize Littlefinger put her up to it?

[@haydenthompson74]

Literally none of the events in the show would’ve taken place

[@morganmaggs2405]

Here’s one about me boy Jaime. WHAT IF: Jamie Lannister never lost his hand? Or perhaps if he never got caught by Roose Bolton and Locke?

[@eliablair6737]

What if Margery was pregnant with Renly’s Child

[@SaltoDaKid]

Well Marygery said Rently did have sex but he put in the wrong hole so theory debunk

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Renly's claim to the thrown would then belong to their son upon birth, making Marg his regent until the child came of age. If it was a girl, they would probably dismiss her claim and/or marry her to one of Cersie's children as it would help bring peace, consolidate power, and create legitimize the claim to the thrown, much like how Alester Florent temp hand suggested between Tommen and Shireen

[@TheShinyDwarf1]

According to her they never had sex, except that one time he got really drunk 😵 and put it in her butt

[@vlad-im4499]

I really like Cat as a character and the way she hates Jon amuses me, like how the way that the fact of Jon having grey eyes made her so angry, she is proud and impulsive, of course she would leak the info somehow and not necessary by actually telling, but by giving unintentional hints or being suspicious. All the characteristics that make Stoneheart dangerous are magnified traits from Cat’s personality, which is genius. But yeah she probably will spill the beans and if she didn’t, someone would connect the dots and realized the truth, Cat’s hatred was the best cover up to Jon.

[@joshpowell1045]

What if Jamie never joined the kingaguard?

[@glingyvenom2028]

What if Margarey died at the purple wedding instead of Joffrey?

[@LemonSte]

Glingy Venom why would that happen

[@TheBattProductions]

Would be interesting (assuming there was a wine-glass swapping accident)

[@glingyvenom2028]

Lemon Ste the poisoned wine glass gets misplaced.

[@muxeca9700]

It is hard to imagine that Margaery did not know about poisoning Joffrey's chalice(he drank from a special chalice, which was a gift from Mace). I mean, it is clear that Tyrells poisoned Joff, it would be stupid not to tell anything to Margaery.

[@TheBattProductions]

On the show at least, Margaery had no idea it was going to happen. In the books, it's not really certain if she knows or not.

[@jacobhall9321]

what if mance raider bent the knee to stannis

[@adustgaming5651]

Cat would probably feel really bad if she knew the truth

[@jeremyfryar3424]

When Stoneheart finds out if she finds out, do you think she will be angry because Ned lied all those years, or happy that he never was unfaithful.

[@BlakeCamreon]

I would say she would be angry at best because she is no longer Catelyn Stark (nee Tully). At worst she would be indifferent as all she cares about is vengeance. Ned is an afterthought

[@kevineccleston6361]

I could see jon snow escaping the red wedding with black fish

[@Chips1914]

Kevin Eccleston I think we would have been sent north to deal with the iron born

[@CrouchingTigress01]

I like your thought. I don't know if Cat would act quickly enough to shepard him out while the "Rains of Castermere" started up, but I could see it happening as her last motherly act before becoming Stoneheart.

[@facundomedina9762]

A way for the story to keep Jon safe from the red wedding would probably be sending him back to Winterfell to protect Bran and Rickon. From there he could either defeat Theon in his invasion attempt, or escape with his cousins (probably head to the vale at first but then join Brann over the wall)

[@Cflynn2001]

Idk if the red wedding would even happen bc in the books at least since he married Jeyne bc he got her pregnant and was worried of fathering a bastard due to how badly Jon was treated.

[@codthunderful]

What if Brandon Stark killed little finger when little finger was young? Brandon Stark still dies and Roberts rebellion still happens.

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

if it's book lore then roberts rebellion likely doesn't happen as it's hinted that littlefinger was the one who spread the rumour that lyanna was kidnapped

[@danielstark8356]

What if Catelyn never freed Jamie?

[@sevnenteenloco]

I think if Jon is with Robb he keeps his vow and marries a Fry girl and the red wedding doesn't happen.

[@moiserares6974]

Alberto Carreon maybe jon snow would have fallen in love with Jeyne Westerling

[@jodiemcadams1418]

What if Cat had died at the hands of the Catspaw who came after Bran? Summer still saves Bran, but not in time to save Cat.

[@TheBattProductions]

I dig it!!!

[@kkandsims4612]

No well ok I guess she was pretty pointless after giving birth she was just Ned’s heart so she dies and Ned would have been heartbroken not enough to leave tho

[@shayaankhusro4104]

What if the Mad King hadn't gone mad?

[@Kaizerchief11]

I'm not sure the Mad King actually 'went' mad. He himself was a product of the long line of incest of House Tarygaryen (except from his grandmother, she was a Blackwood). As we know from biology, inbreeding and a small gene pool decreases variation and heightens chances of genetic diseases. Thus, I think Aerys II might be "mad" due to genetics (this might also be why Joffrey is how he is). This brings me to the crux of this trivial matter. A better phrasing might be 'What if Aerys II Targaryen was not mad?' Of course, I could be wrong and he might have just gone mad due to aging and such.

[@shayaankhusro4104]

*wasn't mad?

[@tracys169]

If Catelyn knew Jon's true parentage, there is a possibility that she would be wary of him, while she might not mistreat him as much. After all, Jon's secret is huge and if found out, the whole family is in jeopardy for harboring the enemy of the crown, basically. Or she might not be happy at all because not only it added danger to her own family (children), Jon was also a product of the family who executed her betrothed. I totally understood why Ned didn't want to tell Catelyn at all about Jon's true parentage (if it's indeed R+L=J). Also, at that point, Catelyn and Ned were 'newly' wed so they didn't know each other that well, he couldn't predict how she would behave or if she would betray his confidence... I love finding out about this series, just got recommended today.

[@magister343]

What if King of the Rock Tommen II Lannister never sailed to the ruins of Valyria while carrying the ancestral sword Brightroar?

[@swagbanterlol181]

magister343 what happens if gerion comes back with brightroar

[@demowomble6438]

Then there would be someone who truly supports and love Tyrion

[@headhunter-ty1zx]

What if lyanna didn't die in child birth? What if mance raydar got past the wall? What if cersei didn't do incest? What if someone killed Jon as a child? What if elia and her children escaped as well as dany and viserys?

[@continuousself-improvement1879]

I think Ned never told Catelyn about Jon's parentage because he is worried she might blurt it out one day, unintentionally. Remember that Lysa Tully-Arryn was purported to have always been mentally unstable, and since blood (genetics) is a very definitive thing in the series (books as well as show); then Ned is secretly afraid that Catelyn could go insane or unstable one day, and divulge the secret albeit without malice (i.e. just because she had gone cray). Catelyn never knowing Jon's origins may make her hate him. Ned reasoned that it is better that Jon is hated, but he would still be alive. Jon being a Targaryen would mean that Robert would be compelled to kill him, also that it could plunge Westeros into war again, between the North and South. After such a long war, I don't think Ned wants another one. Keeping a Targaryen so that they could have a half-Stark in the Iron Throne is preposterous. The Starks never wanted the Iron Throne, they belong to the North and they can't stand the frippery and pomp and cunning of the South. Consider that the Stark is the oldest and most Noble house in Westeros with lineage going back for thousands of years, and they never cared to unite all of Westeros like the Targaryen did. Because that would mean they have to rule in the South or somewhere in the middle, and make Winterfell a sort of vacation home. They can't have that. There must always be a Stark at Winterfell.

[@vladajovanovic1293]

What if Jaime crowned Viserys during the sack of Kings Landing.

[@allant9652]

If Jon could have been confirmed to be the son of rhaegar and lyanna I think the red wedding wouldn’t happen for a number of reasons: 1.Robb wouldn’t proclaimed himself king in the north as he would back Jon’s claim for the iron throne. 2. A number of targeryan Loyalist houses would have joined the starks in order to put Jon on the throne. 3. It would be Jon rather than Robb marrying a frey girl so who’s to say he would break his vow. This all depends on whether or not his parentage could be proven just my view anyway

[@Trickway0]

hes saying that only catelyn knew of his true parent, robb would have no idea

[@allant9652]

Funny Clips true but let’s say ned would die in the same way he did in the show what reason would she have to not reveal it to everyone

[@Trickway0]

catelyn would never have done that, she knew it would put a automatic target on jons back. and assuming catelyn liked jon, she would never do that

[@allant9652]

Funny Clips again true unless she thought it would help them win the war coz she’d still value her children over anyone else so assuming that a couple of houses from the the reach and stormlands came to their side She’d take that for jons safety.

[@Trickway0]

no cause jon snow isnd her child, and she would know they would wanna put jon snow on the throne and forget about robb

[@mph2542]

What if Ned Stark took Renly's offer of 100 men and attacked Cersei first after Roberts death

[@TheBattProductions]

That's a great one. I wonder, that damn fool...

[@aconda5823]

"Promise me Ned, to keep him hidden and save from robert, but when he comes off age, you must send him to the wall. He is destined to serve so we all will have a chance to survive."

[@ivansikima7915]

Can't wait for the first battcollections vid!!!

[@magister343]

What if Emperor Aurion set up a throne in Volantis rather than returning to the ruins of Valyria?

[@Psychoslayerr1917]

Great video thanks for making it!

[@nancylan4263]

Cat would have had to hide her distaste for Jon if she knew who he really was...she would have been jealous that he was above Robb, that Robb and her entire fam would some day have to honor Jon. Cat is an impulsive petty unkind character. I think she would have hated Jon even more if she knew the truth.

[@SliceOfDog]

I agree with the read of her being impulsive, but where are you getting petty and unkind from? She considers herself 'the worst woman who ever lived' for not being able to love Jon Snow. She literally believes that she brought a curse onto her family for failing to love him. Other than her behaviour towards Jon (who she believes is the living embodiment of her honourable husband's only ever failed vow, and who she regrets her inability to love) and Tyrion (who she honestly believes tried to murder her son. Twice), when is she unkind? And when, other than with Jon, is she petty?

[@magister343]

What if King Torrhen Stark did not kneel before Aegon the Conqueror?

[@davidweihe6052]

We find out if weir arrows kill dragons, as Brandon Snow's offer to kill the dragons implies(implied?). Even if they do, the odds are that Brandon only gets one or two dragons, the North's army gets devastated, losing at least half, and the dragons waste the North. Torrhen made the best of a bad choice.

[@magister343]

What if Aegon the Conqueror made Old Town his capital city?

[@mike.n.n.7723]

Jon would have probably gone with Robb to war and killed at the Red Wedding

[@theresasteward1506]

No there would have been NO RED WEDDING! Since it would have been John's Marriage to the Frey's as the price of Passage Not Rob's. So there would have been no reason for Walter Frey to break hospitality rules.

[@TraderTravels]

I love your alternate histories

[@nicholas1053]

Well, we now know that Ned knew Raegar and Lyanna got married and Bran would've had he paid more attention / gotten a bit closer in order to hear what Lyanna whispered. Ned clearly heard her say " his name is Aegon *Targaryon* " not Aegon Sand. Seeing he named the child Jon Snow and not Jon Stark, I think he knew the convention and understood what it meant.

[@tammymartinez7488]

He might still go to the wall if catlyn cares for him. She could fear Robert finding out and urge him to take the nights watch vows like maester aemon.

[@cyrilmeynier5688]

"What if Randyll loved his son Sam?" ends up about the same.

[@daflinboy57]

Jon would have disagreed with Rob about not keeping his word and marrying the Frey girl

[@magister343]

Ned does not have the legal authority to give Jon the name Stark. Only a King has the power to legitimize a bastard. He would have to ask Robert Baratheon for it as a favor, which would draw suspicions.

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

magister343 still thinks Robert would of gave the Stark name to Jon

[@CrouchingTigress01]

He could, they were friends after all and Jon Arryn could help persuade him to help is friend

[@zhihao1]

suspicion how? As far as Robert knows, Jon is the bastard child between Ned and some random commoner. As far as he cares, making Jon a Stark would just be an honorable move by Ned

[@e.v4892]

@@CrouchingTigress01 He probably wanted to, but Cersei would've just screamed incessantly in his ear. Bobby B don't respect Cersei, but he still does do things for her just to get her to shut up. Not legitimising bastards was among these tasks.

[@Rakonax]

even if jon would have been legitimized, he would have been still a bastard which means every other stark child would inherit before him, he would be the last in line, after arya

[@magister343]

Not if Ned claimed he was his older brother Brandon's bastard before requesting he be legitimized. Then he would be lord of Winterfell ahead of Ned himself.

[@marybolger4291]

@@magister343 but Brandon took a vow not to have kids so it probably wouldn't count

[@daydream1395]

What if the White Walkers never came back?

[@wilmakiller523]

What if Ned didn't kill Sansa's dog Lady?

[@silverblade357]

What if the order to kill Lady, an innocent, provoked Eddard and the rest of House Stark to pack up and go home to Winterfell?

[@joshpowell1045]

What if Ned stayed loyal to joffrey?

[@jamesw1425]

Great video as always kevin.

[@jarrarshah4961]

1) What if Arya killed (finished off) Sandor Clegane when Brienne took him out? 2) What if Ramsey didn’t kill Roose Bolton? 3) What if Jaime never lost his hand? 4) What if Cersei never turned to the Faith Militant? 5) What if Robb Stark allowed Qyburn to die?

[@TheBattProductions]

Awesome suggestions!!! I particularly like #5

[@jarrarshah4961]

TheBattProductions Thanks, hope it can make a future video!

[@remysadventures-official8357]

No Cavesex, Sam would´ve died long ago (say season 1), no King in the North for Jon, maybe Alliser Thorne for Lord commander...

[@AdamSisko6]

nice work you doing bro. you deserve much more subsribers !!! :)

[@CarlShull]

What if Daemon Blackfyre the First won his rebellion. Love the channel

[@PZY.Studios]

5:55 let's say John still goes to the wall because he idolized uncle Ben like the hero In all good story's should say Benji. Comes down looking for people and inspires john cause he knows John is needed and John leaves in secrete

[@magister343]

What if Nymeria never made it to Dorne?

[@aegonthe1st280]

What if Jon didn't give Arya needle?

[@silverblade357]

One pudgey stablehand at the Red Keep would appreciate that change.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

I think it would've been much easier for Catelyn to love Jon if she'd known the truth. But then she'd have been always defensive on Jon's behalf, and that could've led to Robert finding out about him - "If you knew who he really is, you would not dare speak so to him!"

[@gusgrannan2353]

How would the Dornish react if they had Sam’s info about Rhaegar’s marriage to Elia Martell?

[@SaiyanSweetheart45]

If he were still alive at the time, Oberyn might start pushing for them to secede from Westeros. While Oberyn was a shrewd man, it can't really be disputed that he was impulsive as well. And he loved Elia so no doubt he would be *LIVID* because not only was she raped and slaughtered alongside her children, but she was also cast aside in favor of someone else. Oberyn would have seen it as Rhaegar slighting her and make her death and those of her son and daughter, Oberyn's niece and nephew, all the more horrific as it would mean they pretty much died for nothing. He would be angry at the Targaryens for, in his view, using her and then just casting her aside when they were finished with her, he would be angry at the Lannisters for giving the order to murder her and her children, and he might even be angry at Robert for the smallest involvement in it. So he would more than likely push for Doran to declare their independence from the others, refusing to provide any further Dornish support. Edit:....I am definitely using this in my next GOT fanfic.

[@nathanielpearman9169]

@@SaiyanSweetheart45 so is that fanfic being written?

[@gavinray4260]

Why didn’t Ned just say “ Oh by the way I just adopted this kid off the streets” Ned is honorable so most likely no one would question it

[@marybolger4291]

But Jon looks the image of Ned, personality too, and Ned would still have loads of kids with Cat, so people would think it suspicious

[@mayasoley4847]

very cool how the butterfly effect plays out here

[@cameroncondon35]

What if Aryra and gendry made it to castle black

[@paulajames3937]

What if Ned and Robert knew that Petyr told Lysa told poison her husband?😱

[@davidweihe6052]

Littlefinger is removed as Master Of Coin, realm goes bankrupt (unable to even pay its interest to creditors) and is taken over by the Iron Bank, like Mexico was by France, back in the 1860s. OTOH, Ned would not have been pulled into investigating Arryn's death, which got him into looking at Robert's bastards, which got him looking at Robert's children with Cersei, etc. I assume that the banker installed as Master Of Coin would have shaken the money from the realm at least as well as Littlefinger, and wouldn't have cared if Cersei's children were incestuous bastards usurping the Iron Throne, assuming that the payments were made in a timely fashion.

[@charonstormborn8998]

I honestly think Ned didn’t tell Catelyn about Jon’s parentage because he wasn’t sure he could trust her with such an explosive secret.

[@ascension9263]

What if Benjen Stark had survived?

[@ChadHuey79]

Good video buddy. Keep it up.

[@ericmaria4551]

Stannis took his army up north, he knew the threat was real.

[@newhorizon3229]

8:29 i suppose you are at the wrong house dude🤣🤣😂

[@Tisch97]

so we have to thank Cat for hating Jon, right? :D

[@magister343]

What if Robert Baratheon legitimized his son Edric Storm?

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Although he'd be at the bottom of succession, Cersie would have killed him just because of the threat of it taking her son's (and by extension her) power over the seven kingdoms. Proof of this could be seen in just the suggestion of bringing Mya Stone to court as Cersie suggests she could have an... "accident" upon arrival to court

[@linasayshush]

Robb has to be older if Ned and Cat are pretending that Jon is Ned's son. Cat must've been pregnant before Ned left Winterfell for war, obviously.

[@catshepherd3102]

I think she’d have had to put up at least a show of disdain, if only to keep up appearances. Show disdain for him, while secretly caring for him - kind of like the relationship between Harry Potter and Professor Snape.

[@naderyounis1552]

I am wondering where From did you get that picture 3:37

[@plaecholder]

Tbh, i think john would have gone to kingslanding with his "father" which would change so much you're essentially just writing a new fanfic.

[@GraceD127]

Catelyn would have totally spilled the beans on Jon's true heritage, I don't know if she could handle the whispering about the bastard but more importantly as we saw with Jaime she is willing to do the stupidest things for even the smallest chance of protecting her children