Game of Thrones WHAT IF: Renly Supports Stannis Baratheon as King

What if Renly Baratheon had supported his brother Stannis to become King of Westeros rather than trying to take the crown for himself? What would've happened? FIND OUT NOW in this TheBattProductions WHAT IF scenario
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[@georgemikal7345]

Stannis is the one true king by every law of westeros

[@georgemikal7345]

Shit happens and he is the rightful heir by every law

[@TheBattProductions]

Haha. All a matter of perspective my friend. I'd argue Dany has claim like he does, but it's ultimately decided by who has the bigger support group it seems.

[@samklecker8280]

What about Gendry?

[@ceilingfanenthusiast6041]

Sam Klecker he's a bastard

[@ceilingfanenthusiast6041]

God-Emperor of Mankind 2.0 well the Baratheones. Are the rightful rulers by tight of conquest so Stannis is probably the true king

[@wadescott5789]

Here's a question, Stannis is no fool, neither is Davos. They know Tywin is the true power behind the throne. Suppose they unleash the shadow baby on Tywin instead of Joffrey? Anything change then?

[@TheBattProductions]

Good question I'd say...that'd be a really bright move actually.

[@MrBlack1968]

Yeah, Stannis taking out Tywin was my first thought too. Taking out Joffrey changes nothing, taking out Tywin would cause a power struggle between Cersei, Tyrion and possibly Kevan.

[@wadescott5789]

MrBlack, also gotta take into account that as i understand it Tywin negotiated the alliance with High Garden. So take him out before the Battle of the Blackwater and Stannis might do better.

[@damonwade6591]

Yeah Lannisters lose

[@arhamhasan6485]

Wade Scott The Lannister army would have been decimated without Tywin and depending on when the Starks would not die at the Red Wedding because it would never happen without Tywins backing

[@joerocchi1205]

There's one thing that you missed. If the Baratheon brothers were never fighting among themselves, then the north wouldn't have ever had to think about which one to choose, so Rob With Honor his father's wishes and automatically back Stannis. So that throws the whole another aspect into it.

[@gfilmer7150]

Exactly, so The Stark-Tully alliance joins with The Baratheon Brothers, equaling 40,000 men. Then, I can see both Renly and Davos recruiting the lords of The Reach to Stannis' banner, mainly Randyll Tarly who'd bring his 10,000 Hunters of Horn Hill and House Redwyne because Stannis and Paxter Redwyne are old associates. With a few more houses, Stannis has 60,000 men and two of the biggest fleets in Westeros. Davos and Paxter lead the naval attack on King's Landing while Stannis, Renly, and Randyll attack the city by land. Meanwhile, Robb Stark and The Northmen would act as a rear guard to protect the besieging army from any enemy reinforcements.

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

@@gfilmer7150 And if Stannis was smart he sends that assassins shadow demon to kill Tywin instead of Joffrey. In this scenario I think he’d take Kings Landing and the Iron Throne.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@mysteryjunkie9808 He would kill of Tywin. And the assault on KL would be a swift victory.

[@gfilmer7150]

@Thomas Martin The Golden Company is with The Boy King Young Griff and (thankfully) is only half of the strength in the show. The mercenaries Ser Massey is gathering are gonna be a mixed variety from all over The East.

[@gfilmer7150]

@Thomas Martin And he has The North backing him and hopefully, The Vale will come to his aid.

[@LuanEevee]

I actually got two for once: 1. What if Brienne saw the lit candle at Winterfell (season 5, episode 10) 2. What if Ned was able to tell Robert about Joffrey not being his son?

[@souzamaximu]

As you said, killing Joffrey wouldn't change much and Stannis knew that. Actually, everyone knows that the one who was commanding the king's forces was Tywin. Because of that, I think that Stannis could possibly use the shadow baby to kill Tywin instead of Joffrey.

[@lelouche25]

"Stannis a bad king." Pffffttt... pretenders, the lot of them.

[@gfilmer7150]

We're talking about a skilled and tested general vs. a narcissitic politician. Yeah, I lean towards the former.

[@nicolas0402]

@@gfilmer7150 A tested general who also listens to honest council from a smuggler like Davos

[@gfilmer7150]

@@nicolas0402 And rewards men like Rolland Storm for their bravery.

[@GOLDOMINIK]

I´m sure Robb Stark would support Stanis and Renly And together, they would defeat Kings Landing

[@darthnowlan]

Agreed.

[@gfilmer7150]

And with Renly's charm, he might be able to win over various lords of The Reach to join Stannis. This Baratheon-Stark-Tully Army with vassals from The Reach would have 60,000 men.

[@toby1061]

G filmer Renly had 100,000 men in total, Stannis had 4,000 of his own men, Reach has about 40,000, North has 20,000 18,000 after that one battle, Riverlands had 15,000 and the Vale may join with their 40,000 men. That’s a lot of troops. Lannisters only have 60,000.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@toby1061 Renly had 100,000 men, 80,000 of them came from The Reach, House Tyrell had 50,000 alone. The other 20,000 were from The Stormlands. If The Tyrells don't join, which they won't, then The Reach wouldn't join. The Riverlands lost about 8,000 men at the Battle of The Golden Tooth while house hold guards and soldiers were killed off by The Mountain and his raiding party or by The Lannister Army when they settled at Harrenhal. Stannis had 5,000 men. Stannis and Renly together would have 25,000 men and then you'd have The North and The Riverlands which would've been about 20,000-25,000 and then Renly would've swayed some Houses from The Reach, they would've had 60,000-70,000 men. The second biggest House in The Reach was House Tarly and they had the trained and most disciplined troops, at least 10,000 strong. With a few other vassals, that would've been 70,000 max. The Lannisters had 60,000 troops but Robb Stark obliterated half of those men at The Battle of The Whispering Wood and The Battle of The Camps.

[@treylefler2614]

They should do a what if series like marvel

[@rincewindXIV]

You are forgetting that if Renly backs Stannis, he gets his giant army earlier. This causes the battle of blackwater bay to take place significantly earlier in the storyline. Tywins reinforcements only made it just in time, so in this new scenario, Stannis takes kingslanding.

[@UndeadBrett]

Considering Selyse was infertile and Stannis wasn't the sort to just divorce her and remarry someone who could give him an heir, if Renly just waited until Stannis died he would have become King. I guess Renly just _kinda forgot_ about that lol

[@immystery3946]

Not only that if it is like after the war just poison him or something if you really want the throne let Stannis do the work of taking it, work smarter not harder

[@djokealtena2538]

He even offered it to him.

[@DeadlyMaelstrom]

What IF *the unnamed trueborn son of Cersei Lannister and Robert Baratheon* didn't die of a fever during infancy and actually lived to become king instead of Joffrey?

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

Ned would not kick up a fuss as his brother have a trueborn first heir and Joff would not be engaged to Sansa. Ned may have pushed for Joff to be sent to the wall or citadel if he's still a sadistic bastard

[@Rakonax]

the gendry wouldn't know how to work with steel

[@leopardtree2249]

@@briansouthparkstudio1357 i think he was like that bc he used to drink and ion think no one knew til later on when he was king. So if ned just did the normal thing and just tell Robert let’s investigate our foster fathers dead we owe it to him and me bc im not hand of the king don’t you think my life would be at stake

[@dustywaynemusic6297]

@@leopardtree2249 what

[@nanditamondal1033]

"born among salt & smoke? Is he a ham?" We would have never get to hear this epic dialogue!!!!😂😂😂😂😂

[@shortstuff780]

I lost respect when you said frankly Stannis would be a bad King... He's a far better king then that of Robert, ned, cersei, hell I'd even say he's better then Danny. He wants peace he believes in Justice. He has no religion (aethist) he is using the red witch for his gain but doesn't have any religious claim to her. Also he believes in proper treatment of the people, he doesn't care for the way others treat him, he's cold but just. He wants the best but doesn't want to be weak. He's a battle Commander and a tried strategist. He's smart, and knows how to play the game.

[@DrRockso1987]

To be fair, that's Book Stannis. Book Stannis is all about justice. Show Stannis... he torched his uncle-in-law for betraying Stannis by trying to make with with Lannisters behind his back. In the show... he burns him because he said something mean about the Lord of Light...

[@shortstuff780]

DrRockso1987 okay but in this case he is using references to both show and book. D&D didn't like the character of Stannis so in case butchered him.

[@shortstuff780]

God-Emperor of Mankind 2.0 you looking at it from the show POV which did a bad job of show casing the true character of Stannis. Which is fine because the show is plentiful of fun. But the showrunners have said they didn't like and understand and character of Stannis which was showcases fully on the silver screen. The books have him more of a protagonist who was shitted on good whole life

[@DrRockso1987]

Akshay Verma - True. And D&D are definitely very biased against Stannis and want to suck off Kit Harrington as much as possible (they basically gutted Stannis story and gave it to Jon). And Stannis killing Renly was justified. Renly even said he was going to destroy Stannis army (and most likely Stannis). He also committed treason by declaring himself King. Renly was cool and fun but would’ve made a shit ruler. He would’ve licked Tyrell boot and bent over whenever they commanded. Stannis (at least in the books) was his own man.

[@finn-3976]

TBH what can you really expect of Dany, I mean she was raised by a madman on the run, she has no idea how to run a realm which we clearly see in the Mereen storyline in the books

[@DirigblePlum94]

What if Cersei never revived the Faith Militant What if Joffrey married Sansa and not Margaery? What if Cersei and Robert loved one another What if Osha stabbed Ramsay in Season 6 What if Ellaria/Sand Snakes didn't kill Myrcella What if Melisandre never came to Westeros What if Rhaego lived What if Lysa married Jaime & he was never named to Kingsguard What if Lysa hated Littlefinger/loved Jon Arryn What if Lady Stoneheart actually did come back in the TV Show What if Catelyn was not seen by Tyrion in the Inn What if Tywin died at the War of the Ninepenny Kings What if the dragons never died out under Aegon III What if Lyanna was betrothed to Rhaegar initially and Elia wasn't What if Brienne never saved Sansa in the first episode of Season 6 from Bolton soldiers

[@bobmegel5140]

Those are good I think cuz you put so much he will do one

[@krisr3868]

I'll try to make some very short guesses on two of them: > What if Osha stabbed Ramsay in Season 6 Not much would change. The Umbers and Karstarks have some good reasons to oppose Jon. Rickon would probably be held hostage, maybe killed (in a much less sadistic manner), but we'd likely end up at the same point. > What if Rhaego lived He wouldn't for long. He might be seen as a rival by some of the kos turned khals, and thus killed. Dothraki follow strength, not bloodlines. As for the remainder, they'd be awesome.

[@bobmegel5140]

What if lysa married Jaime is a good one

[@CrouchingTigress01]

Jaime and Lysa would be unhappy, and 5$ says she'd try to kill Jaime so she could be with Littlefinger OR Cersie would kill Lysa to be with Jamie

[@bobmegel5140]

CrouchingTigress01 yeah but think about what would have happened in kings landing

[@arcticmoon1429]

What if Thorne was elected Lord Commander instead of Jon?

[@TheBattProductions]

I like that one a lot! Awesome idea

[@hoiman2356]

Wildlings are fucked. Jon is fucked. Sam is fucked. RIP Westeros.

[@arhamhasan6485]

TheBattProductions could you do a what if the Tyrells supported Robb after Renly died

[@ww-zb7qn]

I think best case scenario Thorne makes jon first ranger and he would constantly be out on missions with thorne hoping he dies

[@Marcusjnmc]

if Jon wasn't elected, Thorne was supporting Janos Slynt, the wall would of been saddled with an incompetent commander who would have done whatever any passing lord asked of him.

[@timothy7mddtmadden643]

What if Catelyn stayed at Renly's camp after his death to broker a Stark-Tryell alliance to topple the Baratheon/Lanister Iron Throne, instead of helping Brienne's escape?

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

I think she was afraid that people would think she had a part in Renly's death and thus fled as well.

[@gfilmer7150]

By the time the alliance is finalized, either Tywin saved KL or Stannis took it. Either way, Robb has Randyll Tarly at his back.

[@vidarDJ16starkill]

I sort of disagree with the Tyrells siding with the Lannisters. That deal was made by Littlefinger and wasn't something either the Lannisters or the Tyrells were even considering until Littlefinger did some wheeling and dealing to talk both sides into it. If Renly sided with Stannis then Littlefinger wouldn't have even reached them to begin trying to make the deal. Also, while the Tyrells do have bad blood with the Florents, I think the Tyrells would have known enough that Stannis would not have gotten a male heir and would have stuck with Renly and simply plan to kill Stannis after the war was won. And then you also have Catelyn Stark with Renly who would instantly make an alliance with Stannis once the two Baratheon sides are united, because the whole reason she went to Renly was to make an alliance. So this means Stannis has the full Baratheon military, plus Renly to keep morale high among the troops who actually liked him, and have the Tyrell forces and an alliance with the Starks. With the extra forces Stannis would have taken King's Landing, and either Tywin's forces rushing to King's Landing get crushed or Tywin never even tries to move his forces to King's Landing and continue to fight the Starks. This would also prevent the Red Wedding, and if King's Landing fell to Stannis he would have probably killed all the Lannisters and used Sansa as a hostage to ensure the North stayed a part of the Kingdom and loyal to him. Tywin would then probably have surrendered, because he would have known there was no way for him to win at that point and there is no reason to keep fighting with Joffrey and Tommen dead. Stannis might kill Tywin, but anyway after the official end of the war the North would head back North, the Freys and Boltons would have to just live with the world the way it was, and the Tyrells would poison Stannis. Perhaps they would use a different poison then what was used on Joffrey, to make it look more natural, or they would simply blame the Lannisters or some such, but either way Stannis would be dead and his heir Renly would take the throne.

[@Marcusjnmc]

that version doesn't take into account melisandre anywhere, & Tywin did have some amount of involvement with the Tyrell Alliance, how quickly he moved to take advantage of it shows that, & he was also well positioned to attack any force as it arrived at KL without them, an army besieging a city is vulnerable so the outcome there though far less one sided is still uncertain

[@mattries37315]

On anything related to Stannis, let's disregard the show because of D&D's character assassination. With that out of the way, I would disagree that the Tyrells wouldn't join Stannis. The realm knows Stannis isn't having a son at this point unless Selyse dies and he remarries, thus Renly will become king. Mace wants his daughter to be Queen, it doesn't matter when, just as long as she is. The Queen of Thorns will ensure Selyse doesn't die and begins advising Margaery on how to control Renly. As for the Florents using their position to get Highgarden, Stannis would not screw over a loyal subject because that's what the Tyrells would be if they joined Stannis' cause. And it is only after his defeat on the Blackwater that Stannis really started to listen to Mel, but with both the Reach and Stormlands behind him the battle goes differently so the Red Priestess becomes a curiosity at court but nothing else.

[@ph89787]

5:34. I still think that Cersei would’ve thrown Tyrion under the horse. As to Robb I believe that he would have been an ally to Stannis and Renly. Think about it, Ned and Robert were best friends, they fought side by side. Which Renly had wanted to repeat with Robb. Ned lifted the Siege at Storms End, so Stannis and Renly owe their lives to him and most importantly, Robb has it out for the Lannister for obvious reasons. Obviously Stannis would still give the Bend the knee or die speech. But Renly would make things a bit more accomodating. Like giving back Sansa, helping them find Arya, tossing out the Ironborn from the North (which they have to do anyway in order to achieve peace) and return the bodies of Ned and his household and Ice. In exchange for bending the knee and preventing or at the least delay Tywin long enough to take King’s Landing. Now to the what if’s. What if the Tyrells allied with the Starks? What if the Freys and Bolton’s turned on each other at the Red Wedding? What if the Iron bank had supported Daenerys? What if Randyll Tarly didn’t ally with Cersei? What If Yara had won the Kingsmoot? What if Myrcella lived? What if Jon had evacuated Hardhome before the White Walkers had showed up? What if the Night King didn’t shoot down Viserion? What if Yara, Theon and the Sand Snakes had beaten Euron? What if Ygritte had lived? What if Robb has escaped the Red Wedding? What if Stannis had sent Shireen back with Ser Davos? What if Randyll Tarly had bent the knee to Daenerys? What if the Manderlys, the Glover’s and the Cerwyns had sided with Jon at the Battle of the Bastards? What if Smalljon Umber had handed Rickon over to Jon and Sansa? What if Littlefinger hadn’t arranged for Sansa to escape from the Purple Wedding? What if Joanna Lannister had lived? What if Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon lived? What if Daenerys had taken over Qarth? What if Jon Arryn had handed over Ned and Robert to Aerys? What if Aerys had declared war on the seven kingdoms? What if Joffrey has declared war on the seven kingdoms? What if Tywin has figured out that his cupbearer was Arya? What if Littlefinger gave away Arya’s identity to Tywin? What if Yoren, Arya, Gendry and the rest of the Nights Watch recruits weren’t intercepted by the Lannisters? What if Joffrey had Sansa executed instead of Ned? What if Joffrey had Tommen and Myrcella executed? What if Joffrey had Cersei executed? What if Joffrey had Tyrion executed? What if Joffrey had Tywin executed? What if Joffrey had refused the Tyrells offer to marry Margaery? What if Tommen was sent to Dorne? What if Tywin had agreed to marry Elia to Jamie? What if Ned was already married at the beginning of Roberts Rebellion? What if Robert had killed Rhaegar but dies of his wounds? What if Aerys never showed up at the Tourney of Harrenhal? What if despite Torrhen Stark bending the knee. Aegon still set the Dragons loose on the North? What if the doom of Valyria never happened? What if the Valyrians had conquered Westeros?

[@richardswartz8069]

Not to mention Robb’s war was more against the Lannisters than a war of independence. Once the Lannisters are defeated Stannis would offer a full pardon and all titles to Robb if he bent the knee.

[@ph89787]

Richard Swartz More like Renly would persuade him for that course of action. Stannis would probably call for Robb’s head and that of his bannermen due to being named King in the North.

[@caleidozkopie8344]

"I'll even name you my heir" Renly would be his heir anyway if stannis dies without a son

[@bobbybigpotatoes7360]

i may be wrong but i think that would put stannis's daughter as heir because it goes 1.son 2.daughter 3.brother

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

@@bobbybigpotatoes7360 If Westerosi law allows for agnatic-cognatic succession. If it’s agnatic succession, then it’ll go to the brother. But as the society is still very patriarchal, many would not oppose Stannis naming his brother as heir if he don’t have a son, even if it broke the laws of succession.

[@jeanpaulsinatra]

Man did that boy shoot himself in the foot. Especially working on the assumption that Stannis wouldn't be so keen on the kool aid if he got the throne. BTW I think you took a different point of departure than me. If we start from Renly meeting with Ned after Robert died, they launch a coup, invite Stannis to KL, announce Joffrey's bastardy, send an army to the Riverlands to reinforce Robb, they all march south, Ned does all the beheading. He probably arranges for Cersei and her children to be exiled cos he's not down with the whole killing children thing. Awkwardly enough, that could lead to a Joffrey/Dany arrangement, but with Daenerys holding all the cards, she's well-positioned to bitchslap the psychopathy out of Joffrey. The only thing I can think I've left out is Jon. Course Ned would still be alive and probably still Hand, and given how much Stannis liked him at the Wall, he could probably be talked into naming him heir

[@flannigan5]

I suppose it is all hypothetical but I think it could be different; if the Tyrells joined the Lannisters sooner I would expect Dorne to side with Stannis. They already had a grudge with the Lannisters, combined their hatred of the Tyrells, I think they would see this as their chance for revenge, perhaps even a marriage between Shireen and Trystane? Additionally, without Catelyn's aversion to Stannis' use of dark magic, it is much more likely that Robb would 'cooperate' with Stannis. If Robb could keep Tywin in the Riverlands and if the Tyrells had to keep troops back to defend against Dorne, Stannis would easily win the Battle of the Blackwater and sit on the Iron Throne. What would be different? Renly would probably be able to broker a peace with the Loras (a large reparation bill like after Robert's Rebellion). Stannis would hear word of the Wall's peril but have a much greater force at his disposal when he goes to help, probably enough to send the Ironborn back into the sea too (he hates them). There is no red wedding so Robb survives, he sees Stannis genuine desire to protect the North and Stannis respects Robb because of Ned, Robb bends the knee and is made Warden of the North. They force the wildlings to submit, with Jon's help and end the Greyjoy line. Again it is probably too hard to predict the changes by the time Daenerys arrives, Robb and Stannis are probably two of the best commanders in the realm but would be distracted in the North.

[@vladajovanovic1293]

What if Brandon Stark kills Littlefinger?

[@TheBattProductions]

I have done that one! :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/inTEgp-idr6Endk

[@vladajovanovic1293]

TheBattProductions Oh wow, how the hell did i miss that O_o Thanks!

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

What if Brandon marries Cercei instead of Cathlyn What if Lyanna marries Rhaegar for an alliance Robert marries Lysa lives in the Eyrie with Jon Arryn gives Stannis more power in the Stormlands doesn't ignore him and insult Ned marries Cathlyn The Starks and Tywin are on the small council Ned is in Winterfell while his father and brother are in the South The Reach Iron islands and Dorne are out of the Question

[@mikaelac.6515]

“That makes me sad to think Tyrion would be strategizing against Daenerys.” Wow this statement did not age well

[@ascension9263]

WHAT IF Mance bent the knee?

[@TheBattProductions]

Awesome idea!

[@natiquinn830]

Which he kinda did in the books, just sayin

[@hermitage6439]

well we're not making What IF's on the books but rather on the TV show.

[@hermitage6439]

Just sayin'

[@runnercomet9191]

Just read the books to see that scenario tbh

[@aaronkooi5459]

What if the blackfish surrenders Riverrun to Jaime, and goes north to help Jon and Sansa take back Winterfell?

[@NessaBear90]

I'm down for Margaery and Robb getting married lol! What if Robb took over the role of Lady Stoneheart? (Lord Stoneheart?) What if Cersei was with Tommen when she blew up the Sept? What if Aemon knew who Jon was? What if Dany came to Westeros eariler? What if Jon didn't bend the knee to Dany at all? What if Dany and Jon switched places? Lol

[@TheBattProductions]

I'd love it if Margaery and Robb would've been married. Or, Robb could've spurned Margaery like he did the Freys and piss off an even BIGGER hosue! Hah!

[@NessaBear90]

I am sure that it is known how beautiful Margaery is! I would've spurned a man for Margaery! lol. Anything to get rid of Talisa tbh. Blek!

[@The_Custos]

"What if Jon didn't bend the knee to Dany at all?" What if their relationship continued to sour after getting off on the wrong foot? No romance, no cooperation. What if Dany took King's Landing shortly after returning, and damn the consequences!

[@ph89787]

thatsnumberwang100 Actually given the secret passages in and out of the Red Keep. There wouldn’t need to be a siege. Varys knows most of the passages. So all he needs to do is tell Dany which ones would be suited to the Unsullied. That way the Dragons and Dothraki can be used to lure Jamie and the Lannister army away. Leaving Cersei with the Gold Cloaks, the Kingsguard, FrankenMountain and Qyburn. The Gold Cloaks would be easy to defeat and they were outnumbered. The real challenge would be the Kingsguard and FrankenMountain. Oh and the plan may go bust if Cersei had made more Wildfire.

[@The_Custos]

Why haven't they done this!?

[@danielstark8356]

I don’t think Stannis would have used a shadow baby in this scenario. From what I understand he only used it because he thought he didn’t have a chance against Renly’s forces. He was much more confident about taking King’s Landing.

[@CarlShull]

What if Daemon 1 Blackfyre won the Battle of the Redgrass Field

[@TheBattProductions]

OO0oo that's a fun one...stupid Brynden Rivers...

[@CrouchingTigress01]

I'd imagine a reverse of the blackfyre rebellion. Targs would be rebelling now and then for their birth right or (assuming Daemon is like similar past rulers) kill/ capture male contenders and marry the females to his children to legitimize the claims of his family

[@fuzzyco.3336]

What if everyone had boring names

[@TheBattProductions]

Like what? Steve?

[@fuzzyco.3336]

TheBattProductions yah pretty much what I was thinking

[@justsaiyansteve]

Steve Baratheon? The Last of his name?

[@DreamsInWild]

You forgot to mention how drastically it would change Brienne's entire story arch. If Renly wasn't killed by the shadow, she would probably still be with him, and she never would have met Catelyn Stark and vowed to find and protect Arya and Sansa. Arya would probably still be with the Hound, because he never would have fought Brienne, and Sansa would likely have been caught and returned to Ramsay Bolton because Brienne wasn't there to rescue her.

[@Marcusjnmc]

that doesn't take into account how different Sansa's arc could have & likely would have been

[@sairamesh5521]

“Joffrey, Renly, Robb Stark...They’re all thieves. They’ll bend the knee or I’ll destroy them.”

[@MarcelaKPreininger]

the meeting of Renly and Stannis is my favorite scene of Season 2. I wanted to see more of their relationship

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

Couple minor points. The Tyrells would probably stay effectively neutral, enough to claim deniability no matter who wins, same way they did during Robert's Rebellion. I also think that instead of Joffrey, Stannis and Melissandre would send the shadow baby to kill Tywin, since he's much more dangerous of an opponent and thus a much more important target for assassination

[@stannisbaratheon286]

I think most people want to know if Renly bent the knee when Stannis met him in the Stormlands, when the Tyrells were vassals of "King" Renly and that would give Stannis around 100k soldiers with his own 5k

[@supersublime77]

Alas, Stannis Baratheon has a hard time no matter what. I really like the thought put into these videos, it’s truly remarkable the foresight TBP has in these scenarios. Stuff I never would have thought of comes to light!

[@MochineMike]

Ser Davos Seaworth I read this in Davos’s voice haha

[@Nash9r]

WHAT IF D&D would know how to develop a story?

[@azraelrazor]

What if the assassin killed both cat and bran

[@TheBattProductions]

Now that one I really like!

[@vincenthanna6109]

big possibility that the war of the five kings won't happen or at least the north won't be involved

[@Marcusjnmc]

Ned wouldn't have fallen in with Littlefinger, The Lannisters wouldn't have gone to war so soon over Tyrion's capture, I believe Bran would exist inside of Summer & likely would have fought alongside Rob when war most likely would have still came.

[@50daysago14]

isnt bran the prince who was promiced? so essentially everyone would die

[@Wolfeson28]

I agree that, most likely, Renly supporting Stannis would have pushed the Tyrells into the Lannister camp, along the lines of what actually happened. However, there's one offshoot of the canon scenario that I find intriguing. Suppose Stannis recognizes that he doesn't have the support to win the Iron Throne himself, and when Melisandre effectively tells him that he must kill his own brother in order to gain his forces, Stannis refuses. Then, Stannis decides that rather than either becoming a kinslayer or forcing a war that he cannot win, he will take the black in order to clear Renly's path the the throne. In that case, Renly would be pressing his own claim, so he would retain his marriage to Margaery and the Tyrells' support, but he would also gain control of Stannis' original forces by default. Thus, he would not only have a huge army, but naval dominance as well, and the Tyrells would stay firmly in his camp. Under those circumstances, I have a very hard time seeing how Renly could lose at the Blackwater, even with Tyrion leading the defense. Of course, this would be a substantial shift in character for Stannis, so I can see that it would be highly unlikely.

[@ashtoncraine2702]

Well here is something to consider. The red lady (I can’t spell her name so I won’t try) once said to Stannis if she was present during the battle she would have been able to stop the wildfire. The only reason she wasn’t there was because Davos say the shadow baby and warned stannis if he uses her again the people wouldn’t be loyal. If there was no shadow baby, davos wouldn’t tell stannis to leave her behind and she would have used either the shadowbaby or something different to stop the wildfire. The wildfire took out roughly have stannis’s forces and even then they almost took the city. If the wildfire didn’t work, I’m willing to believe stannis would have taken the city before Tywin arrived.

[@doinizhedstrom7525]

If Renly supports Stannis as King, wouldn't that possibly aid Ned in surviving? I mean in the show Renly says to Ned that Stannis isn't a King but he is. If he supported Ned, that dialouge would've gone down a bit different and possibly, Ned would go with Renly or maybe they Renly would've been in the Throne room with Ned as well as his own guards. Could Ned have survived? Could the north and the stormlands have joined forces again in the war?

[@TheBattProductions]

It's really dicey -- probably the only way to stop it would've been to use the 100 guards at night when Renly suggested, but Ned was super against that. It's certainly possible though, I think.

[@JG-bx1rc]

I feel like Renly, being more politically savvy, might’ve been able to convince Robb and Stan is to make common cause in some way. Wether it be by Robb stepping down as king or by stannis relinquishing the north

[@bucinator9879]

What if Jon Snow joined the brotherhood without banners instead of the Night's Watch

[@Katerine459]

What if Maester Luwin, who knew that the boys Theon burned were not Bran and Rickon (at least in the books), had written to Catelyn and told her that her boys were missing, rather than dead, so Catelyn wasn't so grief-stricken and desperate to get her girls back?

[@garlantyrell8030]

Loved the video man! One of the best yet!

[@TheBattProductions]

Thanks a lot bud! I liked this video a ton myself

[@adamsolence6666]

Our is the fury.

[@jennydoombringer8108]

I was just thinking "what if Robb married Margaery?" the other day. Here's how I think it could have happened: 1. Robb goes to meet with Renly and Stannis for himself instead of just sending Catelyn (presumably someone like the Greatjon or Rickard Karstark commands the armies while Robb is away). 2. When Renly dies, Margaery decides to seduce Robb and get him to marry her, since he's admittedly pretty easy to manipulate due to sharing his father's lack of interest in playing politics, and also has the additional benefit for Margaery of not being an unhinged sociopath like Joffrey. 3. Margaery manages to convince Robb to take (or at least try to take) the Iron Throne. You say this is unlikely because he didn't want it, but he also originally didn't want to declare independence and make himself King in the North before the Northern lords pressured him into it (he was debating whether to side with Stannis or Renly when the Greatjon spoke up, if you remember), so I think Margaery could have convinced him to change his mind and take the Throne. I think Margaery would play on Robb's sense of honor, pointing out that Joffrey is a murderous psychopath and Stannis is a black-magic-wielding kinslayer so neither of them are honorable enough to be "worthy" of the throne. I don't know how it would play out from there. For example, I don't know if the Red Wedding would still happen (Walder Frey would obviously still be pissed about the broken betrothal, but Robb wouldn't have any need to grovel to him if he had the armies of the Reach on his side).

[@daviejohnstone12]

Awesome vids. Well educated and delivered in an intellectual way. Subscribed.. thumbs up

[@TheBattProductions]

Thanks a lot buddy! I appreciate the kind words and glad to have you on board ! :)

[@mranderson9813]

"On to Winterfell" always loved Stanno

[@blitzkrieg2928]

1:43 His wife was probablly the barren one with all those stillbirths

[@TheBattProductions]

Probably

[@shawnofdanaukota3843]

What if Torrhen Stark didn’t surrender to Aegon the Conquerer

[@TheBattProductions]

OO0oo00oo I like it! That's awesome!

[@vincenthanna6109]

the Starks fucked...or maybe they will be pardoned like tha Lannisters but alot of houses would have been destroyed if they hadn't bent the damn knee

[@nerdsforever4852]

the Starks would likely be wiped out as would most of that generation of Northern Lords. odds are Winterfell and the paramountcy are given to house Karstark due to them having the best claim via blood. odds are that such savagery combined with the general loyalty of The North towards the Starks would lead to numerous revolts there is a possibility that this combined with failure of the first Dornish war may drive Aegon to an early grave. this means that Ayners reign starts a lot sooner than in the canon timeline. this means the Targeryon dynasty is real danger of collapse as if Megor or more likely his mouther decide to usurp the crown before Ayner has kids then the line ends as Megor is implied to be infertile, therefore the empire most likely collapses within a generation. The Baratheon's are most likely overthrown leving the possibility of The counightons taking over. The Tullys become the new river kings and most likely take parts of the Rock ,Reach and North on account of there army being wiped out overall changes would be No Stark dynasty meaning Azor Ahai most likely is not born No Kingslanding No Targeryon empire meaning no united Westeros, preventing The Dance of Dragons , The Blackfyer Rebellion , Dornish Wars wild dragons would live in the countryside The Seven Kingdoms fight several small wars but are never united Now if the Starks somehow win then everything changes in almost the same way only now The Starks are still around making the North a lot stronger possibly serving as a counterweight to the now really powerful Riverlands

[@PickleRick65]

The smart move would be for Renly to take the offer and after the war, if Stannis survives, to arrange an accident and become king. If Stannis doesn't survive he also becomes king. At that moment, backing Stannis was the smart move.

[@noval4972]

I love watching these! Great work!!

[@TheBattProductions]

Thank you! :)

[@dfoster369]

At school sneaking a watch.

[@TheBattProductions]

YEAHHHHHH!

[@dfoster369]

TheBattProductions Thanks for highlighting😎👏

[@ChevyChase301]

Tyrells lost in season 7 as they were caught off guard and half their army defected. The Tarlys made up half of Tyrell bannermen and the Tyrells were already smaller than the lannisters so the siege of high guard was probably 40,000 Lannisters/Tarly vs 15000 Tyrells

[@Kopfschuss87]

Tarlys made half of the Tyrell bannermen? was that said in the show ?haha like no other Houses in the show exist

[@ChevyChase301]

Ser Criston Cole um the fact that the Tarly army defeated Robert makes it clear that they made up a substantial part of the army at least enough to beat the combined stormlands. In addition, it was stated that even prior to the tarlys defecting that the lannisters outnumbered the Tyrells. Add in the tarlys and you have a lopsided advantage against the Tyrells.

[@BrendanBeckett]

Ser Criston Cole theres an implication many if not most other lords of the reach also defected.

[@Kopfschuss87]

Joey Kevorkian Tarly army beating Robert? The Tyrell army was under the command of Randyll Tarly , that does not make it his army and his bannermen. The same he did for Renly and the same he did at the Blackwater. The Hightowers are the strongest bannermen of the Tyrells. While the war of the 5 Kings: Tyrells and their Bannermen - around 70 000 soldiers (and no, not the half of it are Tarly men) Lannisters and their Bannermen - around 50 000 soldiers

[@ChevyChase301]

Ser Criston Cole I don’t know about the books but in season 6 Jaime says “ to Tyrells have the second largest army in westeros.” And I assume The Tarlys in the show make up a significant portion as Davos says “Mace Tyrell and Randell Tarly support Renly” so I believe in the show the Tarlys are to the tyrells as the karstarks were to the starks or how the Freys were to the Tully’s. Also in season 7 it can be assumed that not only did Circe convince Randell to defect but many other Reachlords such as the Hightower’s to at least not get involved.

[@keithkahler1327]

Now here is a suggestion, What If Robb Stark did not march south, and forced the Lannisters to march on the North

[@GamingSpoiler]

It's quiet much more simple. Renly falls in line and follows Stannis. Baratheons / Tyrells take over kings landing Stannis sits on the Iron throne and appoints Renly as his heir. "Someone" arranges for Stannis's "unfortunate" death by poison Renly, while saddened by his brothers loss, is king. Margaery is Queen

[@Gootothesecond]

1.) The Baratheons sack Kings Landing. 2.) They make for The Riverlands and Tywin's caught between Robb and Stannis. 3.) Tywin gives in and Robb bends the knee after Sansa is returned. 4.) Daenerys arrives and faces and more united force. Also, Stannis wouldn't be a bad king, he was actually the best man for the job out of the 5 in The War of The 5 Kings. People mistake unlikable with incapable.

[@MochineMike]

Gootothesecond facts

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

What if the Night King was killed by Jon Snow during the Hardhome battle? What if Littlefinger was actually killed in that earlier episode when Cercei told her guards to kill Littlefinger? (Remember the conversation about power? Littlefinger was like 'knowledge is power' and Cercei was like 'no, power is power') What if Ned Stark was killed by Arthur Dayne? What if the White Walker killed Sam and Gilly beyond the wall? What if Margaery Tyrell was never born (and Joffrey continued with his marriage to Sansa)? What if the Night King hadn't found Bran in the weirwood tree beyond the wall? What if Rickon and Bran swapped places? What if Jamie and Cercei had just ordered their armies to kill off the faith millitant when they did their staring competition in the streets of King's Landing? What if the Night King was never created? (What if the Children of the Forrest did not shove that dragonglass piece in that man's chest?) What if the continent of Essos never existed? What if Euron Greyjoy was never born? (Mainly TV show based query) What if Yara had beaten Euron and became the Queen of the Iron Islands first? What if Ned had bent the knee to Joffrey and not delivered him the letter denouncing him and saying Ned Stark should be King? What if the Night King was killed beyond the wall in season 7? What if Baelon kills Euron at the bridge?

[@tycestratman2962]

Yes. What if Author Dane killed Ned and raise Jon to be a king since he is a Talgarny

[@colinf7052]

He’d probably use the shadow baby on Olenna or Tywin seeing as they’re the key strategists and Joffrey can be replaced by Tommen

[@SorrySod]

This makes me wonder what Loras would have done in that situation. What would be stronger, his loyalty to his lover or his family? He's a rash, headstrong guy who might follow his heart and just immediately defect to the Baratheons, but the Tyrells are a close-knit lot. The sibling relationship between Loras and Margaery is such a defining feature of both of them, especially in later seasons, so it's a curious thing to imagine them on opposite sides. Conversely, would Loras and Renly really have been capable of going into battle against each other, knowing they might even have to kill each other? ...There is some juicy angst in this alternative universe, for sure.

[@danielrivett5246]

What if agon faced the army of the dead or the dead invaded before Roberts Rebellion

[@TheBattProductions]

Interesante. That's atough one, but perhaps I'll give it a try one day!

[@nathanh5448]

Been waiting for this one can you do what if stannis doesn't burn Shireen?

[@G1nger519]

Nathan H unfortunately, i only see this being worse for shireen. Mainly because stannis (show) will lose to ramsay and roose every time. So instead of a 10 minute burning, she will be tortured by ramsay for her entire life. Unless you mean that stannis lets davos take her to castle black which makes this moot.

[@nathanh5448]

G1nger519 Half his men left with all the horses because of the burning of Shireen, they could have had a chance

[@jerekheadrick3379]

Well, the snow wouldn't actually melt if he didn't burn her so neither army could march even if they wanted to.

[@LostHavenGames]

I think Stannis would have offered Rob Stark Revenge for his father and the return of his sisters for his support, and being Stannis is the rightful king and Rob following his fathers steps in terms of honour. I think he'd have accepted that alliance especially with the full Baratheon Banners behind Stannis.

[@ajessell281]

Do you think Loras would have fought against Renly though? I think it is possible that he takes some of the tyrell forces with him to Stannis/Renly

[@rionggs7700]

What if Lysa Tully married Ned Stark and Jon Arryn married Catlyen Tully?

[@Marcusjnmc]

that what if is interesting but doesn't make a lot of sense, Jon was an older man who needed an heir & Lysa had had a child, Catlyen was to be married to Brandon & it fell to Ned to uphold his brother's betrothal for the sake of the Tully Alliance. Lysa being allowed to marry Bealish could be an interesting one with similar results on the timeline perhaps, ala Lysa not being in position to support Littlefinger in KL & the Eerie.

[@blackantlers7811]

Notification Squad, WYA?

[@TheBattProductions]

Hehe

[@DraconimLt]

Dunno, I could see the Tyrells (read: Olenna) marrying Margaery to Renly still, on the basis that ''hey, Renly is Stannis' heir now, Stannis might die in this war, and if he doesn't he's still unlikely to have any sons anyway. So even if Renly doesn't get to reign long after Stannis, the *next* in line will be Margaery's child. That's a win for House Tyrell''. And I don't see the Florent thing being as big an issue as you make it UNLESS Selyse 'gives' Stannis a son. Heir's wife is a pretty large counter-balance to King's wife, especially when the King's wife produced no son. Losing the Tyrells would lose him the Reach, and he's never particularly *liked* Selyse's family anyway, so if he gains the Tyrell's he isn't gonna risk losing them again, not over something so petty. At worst it leads to a Blacks vs Greens split in Court, but with no succession war unless someone wants to back Shireen vs Renly, and after the Dance that's unlikely. As for Melisandre, well, Olenna was willing to stomach Joffrey's proclivities, until she wasn't. And the Reach followed. So I could see her trying something similar with Mel. Probably wouldn't work, but might not stop her from trying. As you say tho, the Joffrey option might have been more tempting, but I guess we'll never know.

[@wollbossarx1850]

Even tywin was worried about stannis in the books saying how staniss was more cunning and dangerous than the rest of them(refers to the other kings like robb stark renly balon) even though stannis had the smalllest army as well as varys being afraid of stannis as stannis is a truly just man and none of his little birds report something to varys when at dragonstone

[@J_Tag]

Would anything with Robb Stark change? The North would support Stannis’ claim to the Iron Throne, so would they help each other at all?

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

very possible one of the reasons he was crown is they where asking who to support if Renly wasn't in the running their would be no debate and they just declare for Stannis as the Greatjon really pulled the king in the north stuff out his ass when everyone was debating if they should back Stannis or Renly

[@blitzkrieg2928]

Stannis the Mannis , the best king

[@TheBattProductions]

Hah

[@devinstevenson5576]

Hold up, you forgot a major thing. If renly aligns with Stannis, he isn’t killed resulting in brienne not being accused of killing him in turn catlyn stark resuming negotiations with the Baratheons and ultimately I’m pretty certain the starks and baratheons would have made an alliance. The north would not be too thrilled at this but they would get over it quickly because the starks are at war with the Lannisters not the baratheons. Robb would have bent the knee in this scenario because he has no interest in the iron throne and Ned died supporting Stannis’ claim. Ultimately because of this, the tyrells would not risk aligning with the Lannisters because they would be at a huge disadvantage and together the stark and Baratheon forces would overwhelm lannisters resulting in a quick Lannister (and Greyjoy) defeat.

[@mijanhoque1740]

What if after Roberts rebellion all the 7 kingdoms declared for independence and be independent like they were before aegon conquest. So no more wardens just king of the north, king of the south, king of the west, etc.

[@lkjay7032]

What if Renly wasn’t gay and got Margery pregnant?

[@Marcusjnmc]

he would have likely gotten her pregnant at some point anyway if their marriage had lasted any degree of time

[@j.1hazledine787]

What if the greyjoys joined the starks What if Jon snow saved all the wildlings

[@gfilmer7150]

There were 100,000 Wildlings attacking The Wall. There'd be at least 50,000 at most fighting at The Battle of The Bastards. If Ramsay holds the castle or fights out in the open is uncertain. The Northerners can hold their own so half of The Wildling Army if not more would be massacred in that battle.

[@ascension9263]

Agree about the Tyrells being way too weak in the show! Of course the Tarlys turning on them was a big factor, but even so, Highgarden fell pretty much instantly, not even a siege? Come on... I guess the showrunners had to even the odds. But Danaerys wiping out the Lannisters as they lay siege to Highgarden would’ve been just as cool as the loot train attack, though I suppose the whole Lannister army would’ve been wiped out and they don’t get the gold for the iron bank that way. Game over. A red wedding-esque betrayal with Olenna having no heirs and the Tarlys being named Wardens of the South would’ve been more interesting, and given the reach a meatier army for the Field of Fire 2.0.

[@sirnilsolav6646]

If this happened in the books a lot of different stuff would have happened. Renly would probably stay behind at Dragonstone after the Battle of the Blackwater and try to hold onto Storm's End. He was the best of the Baratheons on the political scale and he would try to rally the houses and try to have them stick by Stannis and continue the fight. He would also probably try to get someone to help him become better at military tactics and fighting, seeing as he would be responsible for the defence of the Stormlands against the Lannisters and the eventual boy king that would try for his claim there. In the show I think that if this did not happen, he might be named Hand of the King instead of Davos. Even if he wasn't, he'd be the one to try to negotiate with Jon to become Jon Stark. Renly being a friendly face, compared to Stannis, he would use his skill of persuasion to have him turn to support Stannis. If he is successful, then Stannis would win the war in the North because then the Northern Lords would have clear reasons to support Stannis. Honestly, I like the scenario with Renly staying in the Stormlands the best. It's an interesting perspective of his journey. We would follow him through a journey of fighting, learning and becoming something he was never good at. It's very GOT to have people who were not made for a role, be put in that role and learn to adapt.

[@randomacts9244]

What if jeoffry or tomon was raised in winterfell by Roberts request. Robert knowing ned was a better farther than himself

[@jonathanstern5537]

I think if that happened, Lady Olena would likely construct a scenario similar to what happened to Tryion at the Battle of Blackwater, but instead, her man would 1. Make it look like a Lanister solider did it, and 2. succeed in killing Stanis.

[@j1097]

0:52 I have never heard lies spoken with such ease.

[@kasinokaiser1319]

For all we know, Renly and Margery could plot to kill Stannis and get the whole of his army without a fight

[@crocodileranger8404]

It's always the younger siblings who ain't loyal....Renly show ur older brothers some respecc

[@runnercomet9191]

Stannis always forgives. he just never forgets.

[@poopbuDDiesfan]

Stannis is not particularly charismatic, but he is a good leader, he is a good battle strategist and is pragmatic and would be good for the kingdoms economy. Reply lacks many of these qualities but is good with people, he’s younger and more vibrant. If they’d worked together they could be a perfect storm. Renly could deal with the people and the other lords while Stannis would be the true power behind his decisions. Stannis rarely makes bad points but his delivery of his demands are usually what keeps them from succeeding in all honesty. If they both put aside a little of their pride they could actually both be king in the way that’s best for each of their talents.

[@evanaskew6652]

At 0.16 you can see the Bayeux tapestry in the background behind Renly.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

So apparently, Sundays are Mondays now. If Renly had supported Stannis, things would have been simpler and Stannis would have had a good chance of winning, if Blackwater still happened, I believe.

[@TheBattProductions]

Haha, NO. I had said on Twitter that I couldn't upload because my STUPID editing software wasn't working...I got it to work late Sunday but it was too late to post, so I pushed it to today. This week it'll be out Sunday again!

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Oh okay. I knew that there wasn't something quite right about it being on a Monday. I should have checked your Twitter page first before I posted that!

[@ivithebatmanivi]

have you ever done a top 5 (or whatever number) most impregnable castles (insert Bronn's line here)? Love the show.

[@archersterling8707]

I don't think the Tyrell's would just be like welp we don't like Stannis to bad. Loras would not leave Renly despite what the family would say. More than likely Highgarden would either stay with the Baratheons or sit it out to see the outcome.

[@toby1061]

Then Stannis the Mannis and Renly Benly would have the biggest strongest army and Tyrells would ally with Renly and Stannis meaning they have food, men, ships and the reach, storm lands and dragonstone.

[@hatbatable]

Sweet video man. its A cool concept dernerys vs tyrion. bAttle of the badass's. Again your what if vids are great and im glad you enjoyed this one. Em my only what if suggestion that could involve is what if roberts and cercei's son did live. He would technally be rightful heir insted of stannis. gReat vid man

[@TheBattProductions]

Thanks a lot bud! that'd be a fun one if Robert had a baby with Cersei that actually ended up living. Very awesome.

[@hatbatable]

Thanks man your the best Hope you have a great day

[@Jordacar]

At about the 3:00 mark I had a horribly intriguing thought: since Selyse is clearly a liability to an alliance with the Tyrells, AND she'll never give Stannis a viable heir, AND she's clearly losing her mind anyway (on the show at least), what if Stannis sent a shadow-baby to kill her instead of Renly? I mean, he was willing to sacrifice Shireen later on. How would that change things?

[@blackgamingdk3232]

U forgot about a good portion of Stannis troops went over to the Lannister army after they saw Renly’s armor

[@santinoalvarado963]

Another big thing is that if the Tyrrell's didn't accompany Renley, then Breanne wouldn't have been blamed for his death, and ran away with Catelyn, who might have been able to negotiate an alliance or better terms with Stannis, which would have made a huge impact on the Rob storyline

[@s.r.j.4458]

Great video! You forgot Brienne, though, and her arc impacts A LOT of events. If Renly doesn't die, she doesn't bring Jaime back to King's Landing nor helps him have his redeption arc (he either dies at Robb's camp or runs away with someone else, keeps both hands regardless). If Renly doesn't die, she doesn't swear herself to Catelyn, she doesn't look for and come to serve the Stark girls, which means she doesn't help Sansa run away from the Boltons and the soldiers Ramsay sent after her they catch her (and Theon) right away. Without Sansa, either there is no Battle of the Bastards (and no Stark restauration in Winterfell), or Ramsay provokes Jon anyway (having both Sansa and Rickon, he still might send him a letter, he's insane like that). Jon doesn't win that Battle of the Bastards (no knights of the Vale to save his ass) and he and dies again. No one to warn Daenerys (and then Cersei) about the army of the dead. When the Night King comes (without a dragon, but still), no one in Westeros is ready. Everybody dies. The end.

[@Marukisu15]

Stannis attack King’s Landing with Renly troops. Most of the lannisters die. Stannis takes the throne. Until Danny comes with her dragons. Stannis and Jon teams up to stop the white walkers.

[@WealthyJester98]

What if Barristan Selmy killed Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger, Varys, the Hound and Pycelle when Joffrey dismissed him?

[@malavmehta7537]

00:53 i don't think that stannis would be bad it would be badass!!!

[@rincewindXIV]

The problem i have with the endgame in your scenario is the absolute waste of the shadowbaby on Joffrey. This is experienced war veteran Stannis you are talking about. He will use the shadowbaby on the target he needs most dead. With Renly not a target anymore, Shadowbaby will kill either Tyrion, or Tywin, as these are the greatest tactical minds of the lannister forces. Either death would have lead to the fall of kingslanding, and joff's head on a spike. This would leave Rob with no reason to fight an offensive war any longer, so he returns home and swears fealty to stannis/fights defense in the north. Tywin dead means no red wedding either.

[@stuarttaylor4373]

If Renly supports Stannis from the beginning, then Ned Stark probs wouldn't die. With the addition of the Baratheon forces to arrest Cersei and her children, then Little Finger might actually side with Ned as this would still cause the chaos and war he is looking for. The city watch might turn, but most likely not I think as with both Stark and Baratheon forces as well as the letter naming Ned the lord protector Baristan might switch sides as well.

[@mjoe90]

Your forgot what Renly suggested to Ned when Robert was dying (that they capture Joffrey and take control of the Red keep). In this scenario Ned would have accepted that and together with Renly they had sufficient army in kings landing to do so. Ned turned the offer down, because Renly wanted to be king himself, and then Renly fled the city and Ned was alone and too late.

[@enrique7208]

I think you missed two huge things that would very likely had happened. Stannis knows the Lannisters are the true power behind Joffrey, instead of using the shadow assassin to kill Joffrey, he likely uses it to kill Tywin. Which would change everything! The second thing would be Robb doesn’t become King in The North. He only becomes King in The North because his bannermen are split between supporting the rightful King by all the laws of Westeros(Stannis) and the claimant with the largest army(Renly). If there is no dispute between the brothers then Robb and the Northern lords and the River lords all quickly agree on the Stark-Tully-Baratheon alliance. He’d likely still send Catelyn(maybe someone else in his war council) to meet with Stannis(instead of Renly) and they likely coordinate attacks to better take King’s Landing. Remember, King’s Landing was saved by Tywin’s army that stopped going after Robb and met up with the Tyrell’s. If Robb has orders to play a decoy, or as a buffer to Tywin, either engaging him outright or just enough to delay him. Stannis likely takes King’s Landing without the reinforcements. Thoughts?