Game of Thrones WHAT IF: Ned Stark REFUSED Robert Baratheon as Hand of King

What if Ned Stark refused to be Robert Baratheon's Hand of King? What would change in the story? Would anyone notice? Find out how Westeros would change!
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[@chaos9731]

Robert Baratheon: i want you to be my hand Ned Stark: no THE END

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

whys that the end? war was inevitable

[@conquestzero7777]

Directed by: Robert B. Weide

[@jasonfarrell00]

Basically lmao everything was just “this wouldn’t happen and this wouldn’t happen and THIS wouldn’t happen” lol so basically game of thrones would just be life of thrones 🤷‍♂️

[@SunlightGwyn]

@@jasonfarrell00 Cersei would still kill Robert and Joffery would be king. Joffery would summon Ned to Kings Landing. Ned would probably go along with Joffery and accept his rule since he had no time to discover that Joffery was a bastard. Stannis wouldn’t wage war against the crown, Robb wouldn’t wage war against the crown. But if Ned ever discovered that Joffery was a bastard he would be able to join forces with Renly or Stannis and have a better shot at taking Kings Landing. So while everything would be different there is still tons of conflict.

[@jasonfarrell00]

@@SunlightGwyn I mean if he said no to Robert why would he say yes to Joffery lol I'm guessing it'd still be a no. Cersei might not even want Ned to be hand and try and convince her dad Tywin be hand again 🤷‍♂keep her family close during their rule. That's my guess

[@kingsteve8083]

What if Robb Stark married Roslin Frey?

[@Nova-cg5su]

King Steve betrayal still

[@ghhjjrthyuu250]

george rr martin said he’d be betrayed either way

[@mohit09876]

Still Bolton was there to betray him.

[@phyzyc6765]

After Stannis failed to sack Kings Landing, the Boltons and the Freys prepared themselves to betray Robb. Robb was only winning his battles because of Stannis's pursuit. While trying to hold off Robb and his army, the Lannisters had to focus a bunch on Stannis. Marrying Walder Frey's daughter wasn't Robb's only mistake, his biggest one in the first place was trusting the Freys and the Boltons. Robb was outnumbered in his war, so I can understand why he felt he needed to align with them, but I don't see how anyone can trust a man who brags about his flaying culture like it's not insane.

[@cunderw12]

King Steve now this is a good question.

[@PizzaRatJC]

The butcher's boy would have become Azor Ahai destroyer of wights

[@debmalyabanerjee5909]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@JayCity10]

You laugh? You forget the fact that the Butcher's Boy name rung out, more than Marlo's did in their respective stories and shows. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@debmalyabanerjee5909]

@@JayCity10 OK OK bro

[@daydream1395]

What if Catelyn kept her promise to be a mother to Jon snow and had Ned legitimize him.

[@IStreamDre]

Jose Landa love that one !!!

[@IStreamDre]

It would've changed so much

[@mellymel8474]

Jose Landa maybe would of made Jon less sulky:)

[@Lite727]

Melly Mel And would definitely know more then just to give fantastic head.

[@fawnieee]

I don't think Eddard would legitimise him. Eventually Ned was going to tell Jon who his true parents really were, this is hinted at before Jon leaves for the wall. Why? Because Jon would have taken his vows therefore revoking any kind of lordship or Targaryen right to the throne (hopefully not provoking Robert) by becoming a man of the nights watch. It was sort of why he was groomed for it "the Stark's have been manning the Wall for thousands of years". I'm sure it would have been kept hush hush even if Ned did reveal to Jon who he really was, but if not then he would pose no threat to Roberts reign (rebellions etc, being the son of Rhaegar) by being a man of the nights watch, revoking all that he was. Albeit, it wasn't the best plan. Roberts wrath probably would have decreed that Jon die anyway, if it somehow reached Roberts ears. This scenario based on Robert surviving. And, I think as cruel as it was for Catelyn and her treatment of Jon, she would have probably been too sympathetic and motherly to Jon if she found out who he really was and what happened. It would be too suspicious. Why would someone like Catelyn not be slighted by honourable Ned cheating on her, and somehow is okay with raising this child born of infidelity? It's cruel, but it was for the best.

[@NessaBear90]

Still down for what if Ned told Catelyn who Jon really is... 🤗🤗

[@NessaBear90]

Ned leaving is the catalyst for the show... Jon would still go to the wall? Didn't he only decide to go because Ned was leaving for King's Landing? List of things that would change on the Stark front: 1. No war of the five kings means no pact with Walder Frey, no Talisa, no Karstark beheading = NO RED WEDDING AND NO GREY WIND DEATH!!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤗 Mission accomplished. 🤣🤣 2. Ned would've told Jon who he really is and who his mother is. That's pretty much it... I'm sure there is hella more 🤣🤣 but I ran a 10k today and I'm #dead... So I will compile a fleshed out schematic diagram later... Btw I like that hat on you like that... it's nice 🤗🤗

[@mellymel8474]

Mrz. Robb Stark yes !!!!!

[@time391]

@@NessaBear90 Jon's the rightful king by birthright, so let's be honest, everyone would want him dead: wall or no wall. If only the stark family knew, then it becomes a drama issue and Littlefinger will find this out eventually, then leak it to start his War between Starks and Lannister. Imagine, Ned stark protecting his nephew in a war of the 5 kings scenario. The other stark kids would more or less support their cousin, who they grew up with. If Daeny is killed, then her 3 dragons will seek out the last Dragon Lord, aka Jon Snow aka Aegon Targuryen. Drogon might be a rebellious dragon, but if he doesn't kill Jon in the end, so in theory, Dragons really do have a bond with Targuryen bloodline due to their relations to old Valyeria

[@NessaBear90]

@@time391 I don't even remember writing this. Also, I have 0 idea what you're talking about. I love when people try to explain to me things I know about Targaryen blood or about Daenerys or Jon. Lol.

[@time391]

@@NessaBear90 Well, this was your response about a year ago, it looks like. Just saw the video on my youtube reommendations and for some reason the comment was at the top about "what if Ned told Catelyn about Jon?", your assumption was thate he went to the Wall due to Ned leaving. However, I just point out that if Ned told Catelyn the truth, Littlefinger will find out, then use it to start his war between Lannisters and Starks. The only person that might save Jon in this scenario would be Varys, you remember the spymaster, who was working as a double agent for a Targuryen restoration, basically putting back some one of "royal blood" to the throne. In both the show and novels, at least to season 7, he was far superior to Littlefinger in terms of his spying abilities and intrigues.

[@egon262]

What if Ned sent loras tyrell after the Mountain instead of Berric Dondarion. There would be some interessting changes for the brotherhood and for loras

[@aegonii8471]

David Maas The mountain would kill Loras and that would anger the Tyrells against the Lannisters. Perhaps even an alliance between the young wolf and the Tyrells?

[@aegonii8471]

Or maybe they would’ve made common cause with Stannis after Renly’s death. Or they could just declare independence.

[@egon262]

Ser Devil this is just one example what could happen. This is why i like this scenario. Tyrells wouldn't help the Lennisters in the battle of black water bay, kingslanding would fall, arya wouldn't meet the brotherhood and so on

[@marianamartinez-zc2gr]

Shiku Bah idk stannis is too strict and stubborn to make a alliance, hed be more likely to break before he bends

[@Dell-ol6hb]

Shiku Bah I don’t know if the Mountain could actually defeat Loras, in the books at least Loras was described as being an incredible fighter, so honestly I could see him winning over the mountain, as the mountain is only really strong not so much a great fighter.

[@affenpoop8848]

What if Aerys actually would have burned Kings landing and Jamie wouldn't have stabbed him?

[@TonyStark-bg6np]

Es ist Obst im Haus Damn Tywin gets burned Ned comes and says "Dafuq". Also martell babies gone so Dorne should hate aerys.

[@TheBattProductions]

Wow. Well, that's a tough one. Lots of people wiped out for sure...some Lannisters! Jaime done, Tywin probably done, Varys, etc.

[@IStreamDre]

TheBattProductions what if Aerys Targaryen didn't go mad

[@aegonii8471]

TheBattProductions I think Varys was planning on escaping with the tunnels under King’s Landing which is why he kept making Aerys paranoid.

[@affenpoop8848]

TheBattProductions Basically the whole first few season wouldn't happen.

[@littlepio3628]

Robert: I want you to be hand of the king Ned: No Game of thrones: THE END

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

whys that the end. war was inevitable

[@stevens5775]

But they still tried to kill bran after he fell? that would have still happened, and Lysa's letter would have happened too. The starks wouldn't forget this or forgive this. Plus everyone on the small council knew that Cersei's children weren't legitamite. there would have beena war against the lannisters sooner or later, and ned would have rallied behind stannis.

[@fearthepiggaming2998]

What if Nimeria went for the throat when she attacked Joffrey

[@TonyStark-bg6np]

Fear the Pig Gaming No continental war but my girl dies.

[@fearthepiggaming2998]

cronon xs doubtful she'd die Robert ain't gonna blame Aria just the wolf

[@time391]

A Red Priest will rock his world :P Most likely dead

[@ladyfoxwf1075]

This is a REALLY interesting one. Arya of course would pretend the butchers boy wasn't there, and she would pretend that she never tried to fight Joffrey. I would hope Sansa would back her sister on this. They would probably say that Joffrey tried to fight the wolf, being wreckless, for fun. Nymeria would be killed, but Arya would fight for her to stay alive. On the other hand, Sansa could wimp out, and bame the whole thing on Arya.

[@docbrown2045]

What if Joffrey was actually Robert's and not Jaime's?

[@TonyStark-bg6np]

Doctor Emmett L. Brown Would Cersei still pry her claws or would Robert acknowledge him?

[@TheBattProductions]

Well then that saves a hell of a lot of heart ache, I say!~ Terrific idea

[@alex-sv8ru]

Doctor Emmett L. Brown Well, then.. There really would be no War of the Five Kings. Joffrey wouldn't be be mad because of the incest, and he might've been a good king.

[@MonTheWell1886]

xrx0R 9 Still may have been mad due to how he was brought up.

[@TheCookieGamer523]

@@MonTheWell1886 it's made pretty clear in the books that he's just mad, probably because of incest. He cuts open a pregnant cat and shows the fetus to Robert in an attempt to impress him. It most definitely wasn't because of his upbringing

[@w-james9277]

Also, I very much doubt that Bran would have gone north of the wall to find the Three Eyed Raven. I cant see Ned ever letting that happen.

[@LucaS-ip8cg]

What if Lysa and the Vale join Rob in the war

[@vladajovanovic1293]

What if Tywin gave Casterly rock to Tyrion

[@TheBattProductions]

Ahhhh that would've changed a ton eh! I like it! :)

[@mellymel8474]

Vlada Jovanovic that would never happen. . .

[@darthbricksempire3606]

Melly Mel thats why its a what if

[@mellymel8474]

DarthBricksEmpire true .. . . True. . You are :)

[@unclefester1840]

Sounds like one hell of a time 😂🤣

[@lovedayalvarez]

I would hope if Ned never left Winterfell he and Jon would've had their long needed talk about Jon's mother.

[@calebtimes453]

Andy Alvarez was John the son of Ashara Or is Jon the nephew of Ned? Neat

[@soupkid8268]

@@calebtimes453 nephew of Ned. Ashara was the FIRST option we're given. It was NEVER going to be Ashara. If Ned were ANY other man, I might have believed it.

[@Leilani972]

You've forgotten 2 things : First of all : Melisandre's role in Renly's death. Stannis would still use her help if Renly was on the Iron Throne. So Ned wouldn't have time to ally with Stannis at that time, or if he did, he wouldn't condone the assassination and would go back North. The most important part according to me : Ned would have a chance to see Jon at the Wall and tell him about his mother. I can't imagine Ned not going to check on him especially if he heard about Benjen disappearance. For the rest, I agree with you. Great video as always!

[@extrasmack]

Great what if vid! Lots of major changes. An equally difficult one is "What if Bran had never climbed the tower (that day) and thus never got flung out the window?" Too many changes for me to wrap my head around but if anyone can theorize on this it's you.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

he did that one

[@johnomalley692]

This is the best Game of Thrones series on KZbin.

[@mellymel8474]

John O'Malley agree with you :)

[@rodstone1597]

No

[@olleengvall3462]

What if Robb married Myrcella

[@Nova-cg5su]

olle engvall what the fuck

[@MrRaveninja1]

@@Nova-cg5su It is true in the book robert wanted a marriage between there two houses and myrcella was head over heels for robb

[@danielstark8356]

What if Catelyn never freed Jamie?

[@user-cr4cj1fl8z]

Joffrey still kills Ned and so Robb in revenge kills Jaime. Tywin is mad ! ! ! He will stop at nothing to destroy the North but also make sure Joffrey doesnt stay King.

[@DoubleO88]

@@user-cr4cj1fl8z Ned dies before Catelyn releases Jamie and Robb never even hints at wanting to Kill Jamie?

[@user-cr4cj1fl8z]

@@DoubleO88 i dont think they knew about his death at that time. Or i just forgot by now.

[@emperorvalkorion6524]

@@user-cr4cj1fl8z they sent them a fucking coffin with burned bones.

[@naimaahmed9730]

Daniel Stark it’s possible Karstark kills him and then Cersei might have Sansa killed but would Tywin probably wouldn’t let her but you never know

[@brettwilson2589]

If Ned doesn't take the job... we don't have the Game of Thrones, sorry Ned

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

you do, its just a different Dance of Stags

[@maiamaola6143]

Please do Top 10 list of Cersei's Dumbest Moments! I would love to see what you think!

[@TheBattProductions]

OH YES YES YES. Amazing idea. I will write this video HASTA PRONTO. Thanks Mya~!!

[@filipmihailovic6329]

I think it should be TOP 20 or even more

[@mellymel8474]

Mya Maola you got your video!!! Wasn't it awesome! Thanks your in put. . . I loved this video!!

[@rodstone1597]

I think Catelyn Stark was way dumber than Cersei.

[@vatsalmehrotra5262]

What if Maester Aemon Targaryan hadn't refused the Iron Throne?

[@TheBattProductions]

Ahhh that'd be a tough one for sure. Good idea! Thank you sir

[@KiIIerz]

He'd b a good king. Would stop the mad kings reign and possibly daenerys. Robert probably wouldn't have rebelled against Rhaegar. Kingslayer wouldn't have been born. Neds death would be interfered with. Rickard and Bran would still be alive. The rivarly with Lannister x Stark wouldn't have existed.

[@time391]

@@KiIIerz and he'd probably make his nephew Aegon/(Jon Snow) his successor, skipping over Aerys. IT's sort of what Queen Elizabeth was rumored to have considered doing skipping Charles for his son William.

[@hi-ls6lt]

@@time391Jon wasn’t his nephew. Aemon was the brother of Aerys’ father. Making him his great nephew.

[@time391]

@@hi-ls6lt Lines of succession at this point would be be interesting. Would Rhaegar's children by his 1st wife or 2nd wife be more legitimate?

[@tendopain2585]

Just wanted to see Ned interact with white walkers

[@TheBattProductions]

Me too!

[@tendopain2585]

TheBattProductions they’d believe Ned from the jump, unlike Jon

[@Dean-jx8yb]

What if the Tyrells actually tried to help the Targaryens win during Robert's Rebellion

[@chrisstratfordd]

Dean Voy they did

[@Dean-jx8yb]

No they just sat outside Storm's End with the main force of their army for most of the war instead of helping the Targaryens at the Battle of the Trident or any where else.

[@aegonii8471]

Dean Voy Then they could’ve joined Jon Con and the targaeryans forces at Stony Sept and possibly captured Robert if Randyl Tarly was put in charge but I doubt it since Jon Con was hand of king and was prideful back then. A large battle would ensue and the Baratheon alliance would lose but they would still be able to retreat.

[@chrisstratfordd]

Ser Devil mainly due to the fact they assumed Tywin would Join the war on king Aerys’ side

[@aegonii8471]

Robb Stark I know I’m just creating a scenario where they pursued Robert, regardless of Lannister involvement.

[@theliberator5126]

What if Jamie Lannister slays Ned Stark in their duel?

[@theliberator5126]

The Fearsome Noob Ah

[@elitejames5897]

Laurence H same outcome, Robb stark calls his banners to go to war

[@thearmada6248]

He already did that.

[@LightDriveGaming]

Elite James Jamie probably killed by Robb

[@blitzkrieg2928]

Robert Baratheon would go mad and kill Jaime

[@rexracer3221]

Ned Stark would have rallied the entire North and other parts to fight The White Walkers, especially IF Jon Snow is the Lord Commander of The Night Watch.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

he wouldnt be. because the Battle of Castle Black doenst happen in the same way if a Stark army is there to help

[@SRVaris]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 well it would still take time for them to get there so instead of stannis it would be Robb or Ned

[@ivanbluecool]

What if Robert didn't make everyone leave the room when ned became the lord regent of the realm. Of what if stannis became king right after Robert died. Would he send the lannisters to death or put them in jail to keep tywin in check

[@brainiacbs9121]

What if caitlyn kills jaime

[@TonyStark-bg6np]

Brainiac BS Lol when though season 1 or 2?

[@Brandonhayhew]

If she did that then they kill sansa stark, while she was still a hostage.

[@ashwhikidd]

These are always my favorite vids of yours! Love this one

[@marijkecuffe5488]

Jon wouldn't have joined the night's watch, or at least he would have waited until he became a legal adult at 16. The only reason he joined when he did was because Catlyn made it very clear that Jon wouldn't be welcome in Winterfell without Ned.

[@hendrik8277]

In the show he really wanted to go to the Night's Watch, so I think he might still be getting there, and in the show he already is 16. If you are talking about the books you probably are right.

[@marijkecuffe5488]

Hendrikjaep The books

[@hendrik8277]

Than you probably are right.

[@alessandromariotti2252]

These videos are based on the show though, so I see Jon still going to the Wall

[@shawnofdanaukota3843]

What if Sansa listen to Lord Royce and Glover to replace Jon? What if Blackfish had abandoned his siege of river run to fight in the Battle of the Bastards?

[@jilllogan1288]

awesome vid! It's amazing how one simple thing like a death or not one can change the course of events! Everything happens for a reason

[@TheBattProductions]

Thanks Jill! And SERIOUSLY. It changes everything...flipping nightmare!

[@1TrueGem]

This was a fantastic "What If"! Ty.

[@ivanbluecool]

Ive been waiting for this one so long.

[@ph89787]

What if the Tyrells had allied with the Starks?

[@shoaibashraf628]

Jon snow won't be at the wall will he? Because Jon didn't want to stay with Cat in Winterfell so with Ned still there maybe he would still be at winterfell? Side note : Jon would probably have learned about his parentage since Ned was going to tell him

[@MegaSwiftrunner]

Jon was always going to join the Nights Watch. Ned wanted him to go because you renounce all claims, so Jon would finally be safe as there is no reason to assassinate a person who can’t press their claim on the throne. Jon even says to Tyrion that everyone else lied to him about what the Nights Watch was like, probably to convince him to join.

[@PolevayaMysh]

Yes, it's pretty obvious that Ned promised to tell Jon about his mom "the next time [they] see each other" instead of telling him right away (or not telling at all) was because he counted on Jon becoming a Crow by the time they meet again. That way Ned could be sure that even knowng he's the rightfull heir to the Iron Throne Jon wouldn't be able to try to fight for it and get himself killed.

[@finn-3976]

MegaSwiftrunner no he wasn't. He mentioned it and wasn't allowed at first by uncle benjen, Ned didn't know about it at that point maester Luwin brought it up since Catelyn didn't want Jon to stay in Winterfell with Ned gone

[@someguythatexists5099]

Shoaib Ashraf actually it was catelyn(mind the spelling) who urged ned to send jon to the wall,while yes jon wanted to go to the Wall, but that was properly ignited by catelyn wanting him sent, that may not be shown in the show, but that was only yo make her more likable, in the books she wanted jon sent and also tried to convince ned to go unlike her show counterpart

[@pablofski3239]

jon would have died when he was fighting wildlings south of the wall, bran's wolf saved him and that wouldnt have happened as bran would still be in winterfell.

[@dylangorman404]

What if Tywin never resigned as Hand of the King to Aerys?

[@tcrabbe1583]

What if Jaimie had brought Aerys Targaryen Tywin Lannister's Head, or, What if Ramsay Bolton never killed his father Roose???

[@ladycelticmoon1196]

THANKS WAS FUN TO WATCH

[@TimSnead223]

Awesome as always TheBattProductions!!! What if Dany goes to Asshai by the Shadow?

[@TheGhostKnight2023]

I could just imagine if Cersei actually tried to claim the north, the north would be like "...Then come up here and see what happens"

[@jharedrembert9524]

What if Catlyne fulfilled her promise to the gods and asked Ned to legitimize Jon Snow?

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

jon dies at the Red Wedding

[@fawnieee]

Why? Jon isn't a bastard. Ned knew that. I doubt he would ever let it happen, it didn't make sense. And Eddard had intentions of letting Jon know who he was, it's better for him to be neutral through being in the nights watch than a Lord who could challenge Roberts reign.

[@rebeccamadsen4509]

Do a "what if Joffrey spared Ned Stark and send him to the Night's watchs?" !!!

[@user-zm1rq6xj9v]

Then Ned could actually be able to tell Jon about his mother. ;)

[@rebeccamadsen4509]

Chazman I know right?! Would be soo awesome🤩

[@unclefester1840]

What if Theon still had his tallywacker?

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

no true differences. i dont see him being Iron King because Euron won through his more compelling arguments and promises of conquest. whereas theon would have Asha's plan

[@sean.burman98]

good work!

[@elizabethguerra2379]

Like that you made the video but I am a true fan of Game of Thrones and the way it went down. Obviously this is a what-if theory and I will continue to watch

[@jackguest145]

What if Tyrion wasn't a dwarf?

[@colegerstenkorn2888]

Jack Challenge that is a great question

[@alessandromariotti2252]

Still despised by his father for killing Joanna, but maybe a little bit more respected for being a 'true Lannister' and not a 'stunted little beast', still hated by Cersei for the whole 'killing Mother and valonqar' shit, even more attached to Jaime (who would totally teach him swordplay). Maybe a little less 'learned' and bookish that canonTyrion, seeing as he would be able to learn to fight and wouldn't need books as his 'wheatstone', but he'd still be very intelligent, cunning and political savvy, way more than his siblings. A little more arrogant for sure, and less compassionate (his compassion is mostly born from his condition, IMHO). He'll may be a respected knight, and by 298 AL, even married with one or two kids.

[@alessandromariotti2252]

A potential bride for Tyrion could be Alysanne Lefford: she's the heir of the Golden Tooth, and so the Lannisters would be able to claim this important castle (gold mines and the way to Riverrun) through an eventual second son of Tyrion and Alysanne.

[@lidzzy707]

The only reason Tyrion killed his mother during birth was because his head was too big 😂

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

@@alessandromariotti2252 tywin intended his sons to either marry royalty or a LP's daughter. so my better guess would be Arya, Asha or snap up Margaery before Renly does

[@ItsMe-yg1tq]

Great video as usual and if you have time you should do a live stream tomorrow or Tuesday I fucking love those lol

[@meghangriesemer1129]

Congrats on 26.000 subs!

[@mrmcmcc1]

Ned and Stannis against Renly would be so good for a show

[@J0ECRAWF15H]

WOOO YOU DID MY SUGGESTION!!!!

[@TheBattProductions]

Bammm

[@J0ECRAWF15H]

Great video btw! I've rewatched it a couple times now. Wish you'd gone a little more in depth with the end game bit, but you pretty much covered/nailed most of the major stuff! There's really too many variables at play to keep up with, but it is fun to think about. Like, if that throne room scene with Ned plays out the same, and Renly gets betrayed by LF (this is before Renly's jumped into bed with the Tyrells, I think) or does he have the political savy to offer LF Hand of the King, and prevent the betrayal? Even if this happens, does Stannis still murder Renly with Blood Magic? (or Maybe LF would eventually betray him anyway.) Does Ned even march on KL with either Tywin or Stannis, or does he just stay in the North the entire time, and prepare for Winter? Does Stannis perhaps even march _with_ Tywin, thinking that his brother is usurping his nephew? Or Does Stannis elect to believe his brother's word that they're bastards, and march independently, and in conflict with Tywin as well? (probably the latter) Assuming Renly _does_ still get shadow-Stannis'd, suddenly it's either Margery or LF sitting on the Throne, maybe even both. OR, if Tywin happened to be storming KL at the time, perhaps he takes it back for Joffrey. If not though, it's hard for me to imagine ANYONE (Tywin/Stannis/Ned combined included) unseating the epic duo of Littlefinger and Margery. Another interesting possibility still is Marge marrying Joff anyway to prevent the remaining Baratheon soldiers from flocking to Stannis, and quell Tywin's wrath simultaneously (LF could then even Marry Cersei, perhaps) The only real X factor in either possibillity there is Cersei. In any case, you're right about the Starks being *incredibly* safer. At least until the Long Night comes for them. I think there's a decent chance Ned survives all the way to present day. The only difference with them being, as others have pointed out, Jon might not go to the wall, without the prospect of being alone in Winterfell with Cat looming over his head. (and they have that talk... LOVE to know how that would play out... especially if B+C=R wound up being true and that came out as well...) But Ned surviving if he had just elected to say fook his 'destiny' and stay in Winterfell was mainly what I was getting at when I made the suggestion; I'm glad we seem agree about that, at least! ^_^ Sorry if this was too long a reply, it's just really interesting to think about alternate timelines and such... Which is why you're channel is so awesome in the 1st place! Keep up the good work, man!

[@simsica5435]

What if Arya went to Kings Landing. What if Stannis and Renly bent the knee

[@mellymel8474]

Yey!!! YOU DID IT! :) glad i got to see this video :) Did I miss a stream yesterday???

[@TheBattProductions]

Haha. I did it!!!!

[@mellymel8474]

TheBattProductions thank you for making this one. . . When I saw the title I was like "OMG. . . . OMG!!!! Thanks kev . Your the awesomest!!!!

[@TheBattProductions]

Hahahaha. I do what I can :) and NO, I did not stream yesterday. Was occupadoooo

[@mellymel8474]

TheBattProductions well catch ya next time. It's supper busy this time if year. . . . ..

[@wafflingmean4477]

If we're going by the books, Sansa would have been a Warg like every other Stark child. For those who don't know, in the books, every Stark child can enter the mind of their wolf besides Sansa whose wolf was killed too soon for her to develop that bond. What's more, the Stark children would have probably all figured out their abilities given that they would have been able to talk to each other about them, and it may have been far more out in the open that they had these abilities

[@tehnoobestworld]

Short version: no game of thrones. you’re welcome

[@mikecastro122]

do what if Arthur Dayne surrendered to ned stark and what if he killed ned and what ion both Gerald Hightower and Arthur Dayne defeat ned stark when I mean defeat it doesn't necessarily killed but I leave it to you but please do both if possible

[@runecrafter1198]

Mike Castro if you watch the fight he wasn't trying to kill med just then soldiers I think he would have told med about r+l

[@Borjigin.]

Very interesting episode, probably more changes than in any of your other What Ifs. One thing you didn't touch upon: Jon Snow may have spent a few more years at Winterfell before going to the Wall (especially in the books where he's younger), since his leaving for the Wall was expedited by Ned and the girls leaving for King's Landing and Catelyn insisting that Jon not be one of the few family members left for her to deal with.

[@TheBattProductions]

That's a fair point my friend! Excellent point

[@lachlanbrowse6939]

Wouldn't Jon find out about his past? Ned promised him that he would tell him next time they see each other, which in the show cannon is the last time they talk. If Ned survives, they would talk again sooner or later. I doubt Jon would pursue his claim to the throne, but it may change his actions.

[@jasonbornot]

What if brienne doesn't kill stannis ?

[@Dashawn]

Jason Bornot agreedddd

[@chemical.christ]

Stannis the mannis could survive. His death was offscreen. We know how offscreen deaths are treated lmao.

[@TonyStark-bg6np]

He probably just joins the watch or keeps fighting though the North favors Jon.So can't say.

[@TheBattProductions]

He bleeds out and dies :( Wouldn't be a very fun scenario. The camera zoomed in on his bleeding leg just to basically show that he was screwed.

[@aegonii8471]

TheBattProductions What If Stannis won the battle of Winterfell.

[@JT_Corpse]

Probably already been said years ago and deep in the comments here, but in the books, Stannis was already aware of what Jon Arryn discovered as they were working together. Stannis knew Arryn was murdered and he fled to Dragonstone to avoid the same fate while also plotting his next move. Even if Robert offered Stannis the position, I doubt he would have taken it because of this knowledge. The show really makes Stannis look like pure garbage compared to how Martin portrays him in the books.

[@jwalanthivaishnavisundaram8444]

Even if Ned doesn't become hand, there's a chance he might go to King's Landing to investigate the death since he was really invested to know who killed John Arryn. The story line may then depend on how he investigates, how much he learns, and who he aligns himself with. If he aligns with Renly, aka the Hand if he does become the Hand, then he would have a better chance at surviving, since Renly knows how King's landing operates. The story could play out many different ways, one of which may remain the same as the show, since after Robert's death, Renly may run to save his skin, and leave Ned to take the brunt of the consequences.

[@sebastianreyes8042]

Great video, good ideas. woud you do another deatmatch video?

[@TheBattProductions]

Thanks bud! I certainly would! I'm trying to find a way to make it visually better looking before I re-boot the series.

[@wafflingmean4477]

I think Ned would have combined the North's forces with the Riverlands and whatever Stannis could muster. I think in this scenario it's quite possible Stannis sails north to rendezvous with the Stark and Tully forces. Like in the original timeline I expect Lysa sits around doing nothing. I think Tywin would avoid making any official claims on who he's supporting so they don't bite him in the arse later, but like you say he'd make no moves against Stannis or Ned. I think he would wait for Renly to call the Tyrell forces out of the Reach and then Tywin would raid the Reach while Stark/Stannis/Tully alliance fights against Renly who controls the Crownlands, most of the Stormlands and the Reach's army. The problem is the numbers would be severely against them, and even with Ned, Robb, Stannis and the Blackfish serving as highly valued commanders, it would be a long war. Long enough that Ned would eventually have to redeploy some of his army back North to fight off the wildling invasion. At that point Tywin would be the more decisive player, depending on his success attacking the Reach.

[@karimam1275]

I like this!

[@user-gv6eo2jv1m]

Also ned would eventually talk to Jon about his mother

[@CrouchingTigress01]

You forget that because Sansa didn't go she didn't learn how evil Joff was, and so (assuming the betrothal stayed), the Starks could be brought into the war because of that and to protect the rights of their dear friends son. So with that Marg would never marry Joff and Sansa would, beginning her torment at his hands

[@yodazx3450]

What if prince Oberon hadn’t hesitated for a confession and just put the spear through the mountains head What if Theon had been loyal to Robb and betrayed his father and the ironborne What if Tywin found out about Cersei and Jaime’s secret

[@tbeller80]

If Baelish still has designs on the throne, he'd have to pit the Baratheons against the Lannisters through whoever ends up as Hand instead of Ned. If it's Renly, then he'd have some luck. If it was Stannis he'd have no chance. Before Jon Arryn died, Renly was trying to get Robert divorced so he could marry him to Margaery Tyrell. That whole scenario could spark a conflict between the two houses which LF could figure out how to enflame. If Baelish can incite open war between Tywin and Robert, then Ned and the North might get sucked into aiding Robert which would open more opportunities for Baelish and would more closely resemble the War of the 5 Kings, except Ned would be at the head of his army instead of Robb. A war like this could see the Tyrells ally with the Baratheons since Renly offered them the queenship. The Lannisters wouldn't have much in the way of allies. Their best chance of winning would be to assassinate Robert early on and put Joffrey on the throne. Cersei would certainly have plenty of opportunities to do so. If she carried through with this plan, we could still see a Baratheon split between Renly and Stannis over who gets the crown. If Baelish can figure out a way to play this up and move the Tyrells back to the Lannister camp with the promise of the crown, then it would even the odds and could wear out everybody, especially if Ned successfully defends the Riverlands and presses in on Lannister territory.

[@J-Q4726]

You mentioned that Tywin and Ned might inadvertently work together against Renly. Also if Renly takes Cersei and the kids and holds them in the dungeons he would have hold and sway over the lannisters and tywin would do anything to get them back. Would make for an epic scenario. If you consider the determination he had to finding jaime during the war of the five kings, how much more would he have to getting his daughter and grandchildren back. Also got to remember, jaime is a kingsguard and I dont think Renly would allow him to remain. He obviously wont let him go free so he would most likely imprison jaime as well, especially on the grounds of the incestuous relations. That would limit tywin in what he could do against Renly and his claim. I think it is a very interesting scenario. Rains of Castamere happened because two house mocked and threatened the lannisters. Imagine what what Tywin would do now. I would actually like to know this. So many things come to mind. Also if he orchestrated the red wedding just to end a war that he was losing. I feel like we would see the most insane and cruel actions from Tywin that he has ever done

[@lawrencer876]

What if Hodor , never said Hodor?

[@mellymel8474]

Lawrence R what would you have him say???

[@GorinRedspear]

Imagine he said something like 'YOU . CANNOT . PASS'

[@hendrik8277]

UCANOPA

[@emperorxander666]

wait hold on one second i waiting for what you thought Jon would be doing. he only want to the wall because Ned left for king landing so he should be with Ned and his bro Rob.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

What if Jamie and Bronn died in the battle against Daenerys in season 7? (the one where they went into the water) What if Renly and Stannis had united? What if Renly won? What if Bran died when the Wight Walkers attacked the tree? What if Sam had died when the lone Wight Walker attacked him and Gilly? What if Jamie's hand was not cut off? What if Daenerys died whilst in Essos? What if Jojen Reed had not died?

[@marcioa1811]

What if... Rob and Myrcella were engaged instead of Sansa and Joffrey?

[@Jackerco]

Thanks

[@Spelling_Errer]

While I enjoy these what ifs, most of them can be combined into the one to rule them all: What if Baelor Hightower never farted?

[@TheBattProductions]

A TON would've changed, haha. What a ridiculous - GAMECHANGING - thing, right?

[@alessandromariotti2252]

It might be stupid, but even something so ridiculous can have a deep impact. Elia's storyline would have radically be altered, if her mother and Lord Leyton brokered a marriage pact between House Martell and House Hightower. Of all the suitors, Elia liked Baelor the most, until he became 'Breakwind'.

[@stuarttaylor2537]

What if Tywin negotiates with Ned whilst he is a prisoner in Kings Landing? Stating that Sansa will be queen, Ned can still be warden of the North (so long as he bends the knee) and his family's safety will be ensured by Tywin should Ned bend the knee and help Tywin and the Lannister in their battle against Renly and Stanis.

[@hi-ls6lt]

Ned would never have done that, unless Tywin threatened to kill Sansa.

[@jaqjynx]

Could you do ‘What if Arya goes with Brienne after the hound “dies” please?’ Also loving the beard.

[@williamoconnell1233]

I would've just told renely to assemble his bannerman, and I would've started an nocturnal coup of the red keep, and mageor holdfast. I would have killed cersei, and dividing up her kids. I would've made Joffrey stannis bratheon's ward, tommen as tyrell's ward, and Marcella as martell's ward.

[@steveslothstorm1155]

Assuming Littlefinger would still pursue sparking a conflict between the Starks and Lannisters, he'd still probably manage it by carefully giving information about Bran's defenestration, like he did originally. It's unclear if the assassination attempt would still happen but it's also possible that Sansa is still betrothed to Joffrey, goes south with, and Littlefinger finds a way to cause conflict through her. It might be the case that Littlefinger speeds up his plan and Tyrion is captured on his way back south from the wall. It's quite likely still that war would eventually come but it would be much slower. Assuming the kings landing incest secrets progressed at the same pace with Renly, I think both Robert and Renly would be killed like the original story and Stannis would try to ally with The Starks and Tullys in open rebellion. Littlefinger may also attempt to get in on this by marrying Lysa and becoming lord of the eyrie. Alternatively, he may side with the Lannisters and coerce the Tyrells into an alliance. Dorne would likely avoid involvement but would definitely not side with The Lannisters. The Iron Islands would likewise not join any side and instead raid whoever is losing, whether thats the north & riverlands or the westerlands & the reach. I think ultimately, the north, the riverlands and the stormlands would be strong enough to deter an alliance between the westerlands, the eyrie and the reach. For this reason, I think Tywin would quell any risk of open war as much as possible. The most interesting question following this is, 'who inherits the throne, and what happens to the Lannisters?'.

[@unreal306]

Jon wouldn’t go to the Wall is quite a god damn big one

[@johncarterfr]

Tywin Lanister starting as hand would be an interesting what if

[@thesynergyofblood]

In this case, would Ned go up to find out what happened to Jon after the Night Watch murder him? Or would his death have been avoided because the Starks would offer sanctuary to the Wildlings and there would have been Stark troops there to deal with any issues (thus helping to protect Jon)? Also, Jon would have to find out about his parentage because Ned said he'd explain all about his Mother the next time they saw each other. If he finds out he's a Targaryen then what would change in his interactions with Aemon? What of their relationship as members of the Night's Watch but also of a formerly extremely powerful dynasty? Especially given Jon's true name and Aemon's brother's name being the same.

[@thngvbts5182]

i think if renly finds out sooner rather than later, especially with cersei not soo kin on killing rob, he would have followed the og plan he had with loras of pushing Margaery on robert

[@lonestarwolfentertainment7184]

What about The Wall plotline? Ned himself intended on calling his banners and heading North to deal with Mance Rayder himself before Robert asked him to be hand.

[@codypk5111]

Also margarey tyrell on the iron throne is a awesome thought

[@kevinmorris7697]

What if ned did go south but told Tywin he knew about the twincest instead of Cersei?

[@fungaming1274]

I don't even know if you still do these, but I have a idea, what if the City watch didn't back stab Ned Stark in the Throne room? or if Ser Barristan didn't hand over the letter and turned the kings guard on Cersei and Jofferey.

[@sdrawkcab190]

Why did you completely overlook Tywin behind HotK?

[@jmccumber6967]

I think Danny would not have died because of Mormont would have known they were attempts. I think she would have started to show signs of losing her “kind heart” and became cruel much earlier on because of how many times they would have tried to assassinate her.

[@quinncalista2204]

Jon would have also known about his parentage, because he would've gone to see jon and told him about his family

[@gryffindorprincess4019]

You really look like a young Robert Baratheon here!

[@TheBattProductions]

Haha. Thank you :)

[@meganviccica]

I think Littlefinger would have turned his attention to spark a conflict between the Tyrell and Lannister families instead as well as feed the feud between Baratheon brothers.

[@TheBattProductions]

You think so? That's possible! I will say that I think he wanted the Starks very much involved because of, you know who! (his love Catelyn!)

[@meganviccica]

TheBattProductions I think he loved Catelyn because of what she offered as his step up. It's the only love of which I believe Littlefinger really is capable. The Stark fanily was easy for him to manipulate because of their devotion to family and honor, as well as blind loyalty. Especially poor Ned. But I believe that if the Starks were not an option, he'd have devised another plot to gain power.

[@theresagonzalez2448]

What about when Tyrion went back to Winterfell to give Brandon a present after the Starks had already received the note

[@conkerman2619]

At the battle for the wall it would be the starks instead of stanis, but in the end the army of the dead would most likely win as each kingdom fights individually instead of the targerian stark allience

[@kaledov]

In the scenario of Stannis, Ned and Tywin teaming up I imagine Stannis using the shadow to kill Renly and then with the Storms End men already there he could take the throne for himself. Would Jon still go to the wall? I thought part of the reason was because Ned was leaving and he didn't have a place in Winterfell without him there.

[@DominicJGomez]

What if Tywin was alive when Daenerys came to Westeros ?

[@user-bq1cn9iy8q]

May have already been said but I think the only option left after Ned Stark for Hand of the King was Tywin. Ultimately the Lannisters solidifying their stranglehold of control of the crown by stealth after the untimely death of Renly & Robert leading to Stannis to eventually declare a war as a push for his inheritance as Roberts only “true-born”surviving heir & brother

[@alexandrebeaudry8377]

Maybe he would ended up going south after learning about Jaime pushing him down. He would never investigate on Robert heir but would probably be the target of the Lannisters. A big difference would be that Sansa and Arya would be safe home. This mean no dance fighting, no faceless assasin and there would always be a Stark in Winterfell. But they would probably die at the red wedding.

[@datnoob4394]

You are assuming that renlys forces beat the 2 best military taticions in Westeros

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

numbers beat plans most of the time. for all his supposed geniusness, stannis couldnt do a thing vs Mace Tyrell last time around

[@datnoob4394]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Let's assume Rely gets 100% of the stormlands (extremely unlikely), He's got the reach and the storm lands and is outnumbered by the north and the Westerlands, remember Stannis has the backing of Ned in this scenario. So Renly has a comparable force (at best) fighting against the 2 best military tacticians in Westeros.

[@datnoob4394]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 I forgot to account for the Riverlands. So it's the North, the Riverlands and the Westerlands vs the Reach and the Stormlands. Renly is very much outnumbered in this scenario.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

@@datnoob4394 well the scenario to begin with i think is flawed and probably wont happen.

[@datnoob4394]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 I mean it's not impossible that Ned refuses to be hand of the King.

[@LionsFanFromNY]

What if: Ned had gotten out of Kings Landing w/ his household guard, Arya, and Sansa as soon as he resigned as hand of the King? Interesting factors here would be: - Jon would have already left to join the Nights Watch - Ned had already started investigating and is close to knowing the truth - Tyrion had already been taken by Catelyn - Arya had already started her training