Game Pacing in D&D

[@seanvangorder1897]

Love the format of these videos. Great information and no filler. One might say they have....good pacing.

[@SlyFlourish]

Glad you like them!

[@Frostrazor]

I knew someone would go there with their comment. LOL. Didn't take long to find it.

[@danielnimitz6415]

I've had to talk to myself in the car to run through scenes ahead of time so I don't rush through them!

[@soldyne]

Pacing is my worst trait as a DM. I find that one shots are the hardest thing to run because you literally have one shot to get it right. with a long term continuous campaign, it doesn't matter if a session runs long or a bit short, you can just make up for it in the next session.

[@danfelder8062]

Good advice from writing: Decapitate the brontosaurus. The common depiction of a brontosaurus has a really long narrow neck, a really long narrow tail, and a big meaty middle. It's a first draft writer's instinct (and GMing is almost always first draft) to do the whole brontosaurus. A long lead-in to a scene before you get to the meat of why it's interesting and tense, then a long trail-out. Decapitate the brontosaurus. Cut the head off at the base of the neck, and cut the tail off too. Get to the meaty stuff as soon as possible and move on once it's over. Good rule of thumb: Most RPG scenes should be about making players making meaningful decisions. If they aren't making meaningful decisions or overcoming obstacles, most of that stuff ends up on the cutting room floor of movies. You still need the establishing stuff to give context to the world and characters in order to make a decision - but keep that as efficient and high impact as possible. For a brilliantly paced book series, I recommend the Dresden Files starting with Dead Beat. It's not the first book in the series but it was explicitly written as the gateway for new readers and the writer recommends starting there. It's a brilliantly paced adventure that also establishes a ton of characters and lore material to an unfamiliar audience (as it's a gateway for new readers but also still needs to function as book 7 for old readers), and it does so masterfully. Frankly a great adventure for a TTRPG could be made out of that book.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

What had helped me in one shots is having a clear three act structure in mind and keeping a strict eye on the clock. An hour for act one, an hour and a half for act 2, an hour for the climax, and a half hour for the wrap up (or thereabouts). Brutally cutting whatever is needed to get there. So if there was a scene in act one that the characters needed information from but they're dawdling, that other scene is cut and the info is now in their current scene so you can move to the second act on time. It takes some getting used to, but it can be super rewarding.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

For one shots, I super love the pacing! I love being able to do a 3 act structure and keeping an eye on the clock, etc. My issue is in a long running campaign keeping pacing interesting. Some slower sessions, some quicker sessions, etc. A strong start and a cliffhanger ending are great, but keeping pacing good in a session for a long running campaign is difficult for me.

[@nerfherder5211]

I love the tips about cutting from the middle. Cutting out the boring stuff. Focus on the important parts and make sure the end is great. For longer campaigns this is very important - especially as introductions can often be an entire arc. If you cannot make something interesting - remake it or skip it.

[@SlyFlourish]

Yes!

[@justinmichael9043]

I am happy you made this video. I’m currently running curse of strahd and my players are having a lot of fun. I get messages from them during the week saying that they’re impatiently waiting and excited for the next session and experiencing DND withdrawals. I was worried that we were progressing through the campaign too quickly, but you have assuaged my fears and reminded me that I am accomplishing my goal: having fun.

[@dogs-game-too]

Thanks for the tips!! I'm having a lot of trouble with my players taking forever to get through simple stuff that should go quickly and then they rush the good parts I had planned. I like your James Bond example, but they take two hours on the opening scene that I planned to take 15mins, so then the rest of the movie has to happen in 15mins lol.

[@MrTombombodil]

One heuristic I use, especially for ongoing games where reaching the ending isn't crucially important in a timely fashion. Is just really carefully reading the players expressions and how they're interacting with the game and then base the pacing around their experience. Basically if my players don't say or do anything active for like 4 or 5 minutes, that's my cue to give the pacing a small nudge. And then if another three or four or five minutes go by without any action I give it a big nudge. orcs attack or something. But if a scene feels like it's going slower than I want, but the players are laughing and joking and role playing with NPCs or having fun in a combat, I just let that scene happen, I don't try and hurry it along or anything like that. Even if there's cool stuff right around the corner that the players don't know about that I want to get to quickly. Sometimes just punching some goblins is fun, and often good pacing means giving the important scenes time to breathe and space around them for non plot crucial character building and stuff like that.

[@whiterice012]

Always appreciate the videos that go into the intermediate/advanced topics . I'm no master DM, but I love seeing where I can improve our games to make adventures the most fun for everyone! I would recommend checking out Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master for any new DM, as those steps/tips/tricks have really helped my games run smoother. That being said, I watch this video this morning right after having a good session last night, but I could tell the pacing was a bit slow, so great timing to help me shore up next weeks game! Thanks Mike. 🍚

[@SlyFlourish]

Thank you!

[@MrTombombodil]

I don't love doing constant cliffhangers because that can be exhausting, but you can definitely modulate the pace of a session such that, at the very least, something interesting is right around the corner. And then you start the next session with a recap and then move right on to that interesting thing.

[@SupergeekMikeDowntime]

It is absolutely hilarious watching this the weekend that the Snyder Cut dropped, and my friends keep taking breaks while watching a 4-hour movie 😂 That is the collective unconscious at work!

[@theringerofathens]

This should have at least a few hundreds thousands views. Keep up the good work.

[@darklink2475]

Great video!! Starting strong is always an easy one to go with!

[@jimyoung9262]

I recently purchased "Return". I appreciate your perspective.

[@SlyFlourish]

Thank you so much for your support!

[@74gould]

EXCELLENT advice. Great video. 😁⚔️

[@crimfan]

Useful information. I've been doing a lot of this over time, especially the "think like a film editor" but this really lists out a lot of useful info. Poor pacing really frustrates players. They may not realize why they're frustrated, but they will be. One thing I do to make combat more fun is to have monsters appear in waves. That helps keep combat from bogging down too much and I think helps alleviate meta-gaming. Not all encounters work this way, but many do. If the players are smart they knock down foes as they appear. If they don't, things start to get decidedly problematic. I've also abandoned cyclic initiative for side initiative. Cyclic initiative builds in a natural "I don't need to pay attention when it's not my turn". This seems to help improve engagement. Monsters don't roll, they just have a static initiative DC (10+Dex mod of best monster, with leader type monsters and legendaries gaining their proficiency bonus). We rotate between players as to who checks, but everyone must check before a player can roll again. The player who rolls declares first and then we simply go around the table, with the option to pass to the next player if desired. It moves much more quickly than cyclic and feels more tactical. It also helps them do things like coordinate to Disengage and run away, which is exceptionally difficult in Cyclic initiative without the DM letting a lot slide.

[@ChristnThms]

Time marks are a BIG tool for me. On the rare occasion that I run a published adventure, it ALWAYS gets chopped up. The suggestion of "start at the end and work backward" is exactly what I do. I usually want a big encounter finale, whether it be a battle or whatever, and I like to give myself at least 30mins for that single scene. I like to do a quick intro encounter, that I normally allow 5-10mins for. After those two are set, I look at the time available and the story points and pick what I think I can fit in. I try to keep encounters as flexible as possible, so that whatever the PCs are up to at the moment is an acceptable point to bring in the next story point. ...but... I also keep a couple generic stat blocks on the side, and stay ready to ad lib as soon as the story is more of a burden than a tool. Some of the best games I've ever run went off the story points 20mins in, and never got back "on track." Maybe I'll get to use a couple of the prepped encounters in a different way. Maybe not. I'll still try to work in a finale. But once we're in ad lib territory, all expectations are out.

[@Alon.Lipelis]

Thank you for this one!

[@VeganBeerSnob]

One of your best videos. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@SlyFlourish]

Thank you!

[@OKFCPrez]

Another fantastic lesson, thank you so much!

[@SlyFlourish]

Glad you liked it!

[@rpgquestboard]

This was great! Thanks!

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

Thanks for the video, I really enjoyed it!

[@stephensayers4998]

Super helpful vid as always Mike.

[@SlyFlourish]

Glad you liked it!

[@richardcampbell4506]

Great video. Succinct and well paced 😉

[@knudsenmj]

Great video. Really appreciate the tips.

[@SlyFlourish]

Thanks for watching!

[@knudsenmj]

@@SlyFlourish seriously, your content has always been good but you've dropped us some amazing tips in the last 6 months. Not sure if you did some reading or have just hit your stride but I'm always looking forward to your next product these days. Hope it's getting you where you want to be.

[@SlyFlourish]

@@knudsenmj I try to always keep my mind open and always be learning. My view of this game keeps continually changing and I'm always picking up new ideas from long-time veterans and new DMs alike. It's a great time to be playing D&D!

[@the_allstar3699]

New to the channel, but I love your stuff so far!

[@SlyFlourish]

Welcome aboard!

[@RedBandito]

Is there a particular chapter or section of Hamlet's Hit Points I should flip to that you found helpful?

[@SlyFlourish]

Right in the beginning

[@matthewyoder2637]

Excellent vid!

[@khpa3665]

Speaking of working back from the ending, have you done a video on how to write a good ending? That's my main weakness as scenario designer, I think. I love filling out the set-up, but struggle with the endings because anything I script feels like I'd be railroading the players. It affects my pacing too, since invariably when I'm running something I've written myself, I spend a lot of time on my very clearly worked-out set-up and then have to rush the much more open ending.

[@SlyFlourish]

Not yet!

[@Exsulator2]

I'm late to this party but I've come up with my own idea for epic endings in d&d. I don't want to railroad the ending, but I still want some guarantee that it's epic. So the idea is that no matter what the players does, they can't avoid a big impact on their future. But what it is exactly, exists in flux untill it happens. I just add the ingredients, that don't mix well chemically and will blow up no matter what you do. For instance, you put the bad guy and the party in a room with the macguffin in the center. And no matter what, either the party or the villain obtains the macguffin, so there's no way the result of this does not heavily impact the players future. Another example: We put a wicked NPC, a villain from one of the party members backstory, in the hands of the party. Now the betrayed player wants nothing more than revenge on this captured NPC. However, the NPC is part of a faction that the party wishes to remain friendly with, and hurting the NPC will create a huge conflict between the party and the faction. The party would consider taking a bribe from the NPC, however the NPC laughs and tells them how many more wicked things they're gonna do once they're freed. Basically, there will be future-altering consequences, just by putting these highly flammable materials next to each other. I think almost by definition, each "flammable material" needs to relate to the goal of the party in some way. Otherwise it becomes filler content. So the macguffin from earlier is essential to the goal of the party, to stop the destruction of their village. Or the wicked NPC from one players background is not just from any faction; it's the faction that the party desperately need to become allies with, in order to win a civil war.

[@Cannonbo]

awesome video. my problem is letting the players be free to do whatever which can easily devolve into endless discussions especially if planning a heist. at some point the DM needs to interrupt them.

[@northvikingman]

I like Sly Flourish The Lazy Dungeon Master videos.

[@williamozier918]

A trick I like to use for this is I always roll initiative, then you can just one by one in order, what do you do with this one turn? Also I always have people roll for social encounters by doing CHA, and INT checks. doing those things can help keep alot of the pace moving.

[@ericksemones9681]

Pacing may not be the most important DM trait but it changes the game dramatically in the best way.

[@RyanWBL]

Bad pacing can also kill a game. Drag too slow and nothing happens for whole sessions. Players lose interest quick.

[@alexandreproisy1645]

Thank you for the video

[@SlyFlourish]

Thanks for watching!

[@Tysto]

Re: static damage. Instead of 6 damage every time, make it 5 if the attack roll was odd & 6 if it was even.

[@HowtoRPG]

AL pacing was always a bit tricky.

[@thetimebinder]

I find it easier. I got 4x 30 minute scenes. Go.

[@andrewnelson7033]

Thanks for this! I know this is an older video, but my question makes a little more sense if I put it here. I’m going to start Ruins of the Grendleroot on Friday and I plan on jumping into Decent into Avernus after they reach level 5. Since I’m placing the campaign in the Luna Valley (this game starts a year and a half game time wise after a successful Demonplague campaign), what advice can you give for sending my group to Avernus to save Elturel?

[@SlyFlourish]

That's a tough one. What about replacing it with a town they already care about?

[@andrewnelson7033]

@@SlyFlourish I read your take on using Deepdelver’s Enclave as a replacement. It’s a good idea, and my go to if I can’t think of anything else. I was hoping to get them to the original city just as it happened (some time travel shenanigans using the Grendleroot, especially if they fail the last story quest in Ruins), but it might make more sense to just use the Enclave. Thanks for replying!

[@HBookbinderGM]

How do you begin with a strong start in a Westmarches style game? Or is it less important because you are beginning with player buy-in? Any thoughts?

[@SlyFlourish]

I’m not sure you can the same way in a west marches style game. The best you can do is get close to the action as soon as you can. An interesting random encounter along the way perhaps.

[@HBookbinderGM]

@@SlyFlourish I guess I could also use the occasional bar brawl in town or other quick, fun, encounter before a party heads out into the “wild”. The trick is not to make it so intriguing that it distracts from the party’s planned goals. Thanks for the quick response. I’m enjoying your videos and find The Lazy DM very helpful.

[@thedeaderer8791]

My dm must be really good at pacing cuz we play four hour blocks and they always fly by and leave me aching for more

[@avengingblowfish9653]

I agree with having a strong start in a one-shot adventure, but I just started running my first homebrew campaign, and I don't see how I can begin every session with a strong start or end with a cliffhanger without taking away player agency and railroading them into whatever encounter I planned to end the session with. The session ends at the designated end time wherever the players happen to be and the next session starts where they left off.

[@Zephyrhawk17]

Love the vids but... Sahooagins?

[@SlyFlourish]

Check the D&D Beyond pronunciation.

[@Zephyrhawk17]

@@SlyFlourish Hey that's fair! I had always thought of it more like sah-hwa-gins ha ha

[@kfisher723]

I don't think I agree with the idea that good pacing is just about "rush to the action", in fact I think that's contrary to my experience in my best games. There's a little bit of conflation in here between "pacing" and "engagement". Pacing is about balancing the moments of action with contemplation and understanding. If all you do is "act", there's no time for understanding and intentional action, instead it's just all "caught in the rip tide". I think it's possible here to lean too heavily on the cinematic model, which is great for single sessions, but totally feels weird to me in campaign play.

[@SlyFlourish]

Yeah, I don't know if *in the action* is really what I was going for. First, I believe strongly in upward and downward beats which aren't always about action - they can be about rest and relaxation or exploration or discovery. Good things. The main thing is to make sure you're putting the characters in the drivers seat to act, even if that action is to sit in a chair and chat with an NPC.

[@kfisher723]

@@SlyFlourish Yeah totally agree. You want enough information and buildup to set tone and give the players the feeling of informed agency, without being overwhelming (R.Laws warns about too many "pipes" spoiling a narrative.) When the players (re)act, I notice it feels best for them when it's with a bit of confidence and a goal, so for some games that could mean hand them the keys at the beginning and try to stay with them for the ride. But for other games it takes that careful beat timing of the moves of the world and how you describe them that help the player develop goals and get that feeling of confident agency that often seems to be at the heart of really great RP experiences.

[@wendychan4012]

"use static damage" is a great tip imho. Do you still roll for hit or do you skip that too?

[@pallenda]

Please do not sit with a spinner if I DM. That noise would distract me from concentrating. One of the reasons I love your videos, no distracting background music.

[@tonimojo5859]

❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

[@PrehistoricLizard]

Huzzah!

[@BlackJar72]

Much Better Idea: No defined "beats," no defined end, no defined story, assume 5-10 minutes per "scene" (but avoid having well-defined scenes), avoid "cliffhangers" and end on in a safe place (possibly the end of the adventure, at home if nearby) as this is a natural stopping point, and let the players do the pacing and create the story. It also helps to play a system with simple rules that facilitate fast play. And of course, the best DMs are chaotic.