Robin: Batman Arkham's Mishandled Mess

[@GameDenColor]

To those who don't know me or don't care, the following is not for you. But we can still be friends :) I know it's been a while and I kind of left off with a bit of a strange note. I'm not sure if I'm ready to address any of that yet, hence just popping back up here lol BUT I have to address the comments. I wasn't sure if anyone was going to care I was back, that wasn't a big deal to me since I'm a nobody and that's how it should probably be, however you guys have been so welcoming. All the comments welcoming me back have really made my day and I'm truly grateful for it. I'll probably make a community post at some point describing my plans for the channel, but I just couldn't see all these kind words and not say anything. Thank you.

[@chocolatecake30]

Always enjoy seeing you upload man 🙏🏾

[@SteveDanvers]

Super happy to see you back hope you’re doing well. Wish you the best and can’t wait to see the future of your channel. Now if you excuse me I have to go rewatch all of your Arkham Re-write videos 😊

[@theketaminekid1241]

Good to see you back buddy! 😊

[@kovalfetterer2218]

We miss you man. Hope to see more rewrite content from you soon!

[@mattbailey7832]

It’s almost like they never should’ve got rid of Paul Dini as a writer.

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

Well he was about to do a time jump where Harley Quinn’s child is the new joker so I think it’s fine that they didn’t bring him back

[@oliverthedum2129]

@@Stormtrooper-td2kywait what? That’s a very strange idea where was this confirmed

[@j7520]

@@Stormtrooper-td2kyidk the lore but it already sounds better than SSKTJL

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

@oliverthedum2129 listen to the post credits dialogue in new game plus of Arkham city

[@oliverthedum2129]

@@Stormtrooper-td2ky I wouldn’t exactly call that solid proof. A lot of people theorise that she had a miscarriage after Arkham city due to stress, so she went even more mad and cared for a painted scarface doll as we see in Harley’s revenge. I think that it’s plausible that she was just obsessed with having joker’s child, finding a false positive through a sea of negatives and trying desperately to hold onto the fact that it was a positive, leading to her painting the scarface doll and caring for it like a child

[@after-hours]

I'm glad somebody mentioned it in the trailers of Batman Arkham Knight it showed Robin Batman and Nightwing working together and ultimately it was cut from the game. I wish video games had directors cuts 😂

[@Equinoxes_Gaming]

Some do

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

For some nonsensical reason it only matters when Arkham knight has cut content but not every other video game that has cut content

[@wrench4203]

@@Stormtrooper-td2kycause it becomes a problem when it’s really obvious there was supposed to be something greater where other games with cut content often feel really complete already

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

@@wrench4203 yeah we totally need a mission where Batman, Robin, and Nightwing are all together. That’s what a spoiled brat would say anyway. The game already has an 8 hour story and 18 side missions. The game is already complete and packed with content.

[@wrench4203]

@ yeah and some of the content is straight buns I woulda rather had that

[@joeker5208]

Tim Drake. The Robin who mostly worked independently from Bruce, had his own cast of characters, a damn car, was the little brother to Dick & Babs (ya know. Since he was 13 when he met these guys in their early & mid 20s), and was a master class detective who could actually assist Bruce And in Arkham Knight, he’s pretty much just…”around”. How disappointing

[@kwayneboy1524]

The writers fumbled in Knight when it came to Tim's timeline as they made him Robin in only a few months after Jason's death. This makes Bruce look he did not care about Jason's death. They should've did what the comics had done and have Tim wear the suit once while trying to save Batman and have Joker take a picture of Tim to use as proof that Batman replaced him. This would make Batman loom better as instead of replacing J it was just Joker using a picture without context to wound him.

[@SoyboyPeter]

This is a fucking lie. Bruce does care about Jason. Tim earned his place in the bat family. Also Bruce needs an extra pair of eyes to help find Jason.

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

No the fuck they didn’t fumble anything. Bruce does care about Jason. Tim earned his place in the bat family and additionally Batman needs an extra pair of eyes to assist in finding Jason. This doesn’t make Batman look bad at all.

[@kwayneboy1524]

@Stormtrooper-td2ky yeah Bruce cares but here's the thing the game never touches on the fact that within a year Bruce made another teen Robin. The writers didn't explain why Tim was Robin, why Bruce was fine with him being Robin, nor did they do anything interesting with this concept. Bruce canonically replaced Jason months later after he went missing any reason you to justify it is headcanon. This makes Batman look bad because he straight up replaced Jason too soon and the writers didn't think too hard about that implication. They should've just took elements from the comics(mainly A Lonely Place of Dying) to fix this flaw like I said.

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

@@kwayneboy1524 Tim’s bio literally tells you that he earned his place in the Bat family and Bruce knew he was a worthy ally. Bruce didn’t want him in initially. Bruce is overprotective of Tim as well. Read Tim drakes bio in Arkham Knight. Of course joker would frame it as Batman deliberately replacing Jason, but that’s joker’s word, he’s trying to make Batman look bad. Why would you believe the word of maniac who’s known to lie and manipulate to get what he wants

[@superjlk_9538]

All they needed was a dialogue about how Tim convinced Batman to take him in all those years ago.

[@Xehanort10]

3:22 Adaptations have this thing for putting Barbara with anyone in the Batfamily except Dick. There's the DCAU where Bruce Timm used Batman as his self insert for his obsession with Barbara. Her random pairing with Tim in the Arkham games. They'll probably have her in a relationship with Jason or Alfred next.

[@themadtitan7603]

I think their logic behind it in Knight was to tie Barbara to the Robin in the main story, but that only makes me question why they didn't have Dick be in the main story like some trailers implied. They could've had him mainly helping with the weapon caches but also popping in for vital story moments. Or had another Bat Family/adjacent member like Huntress be the one we team-up with to take them down.

[@Ryker-Picard]

They had Jason kinda date Barbra in Three Jokers

[@bendavenport4136]

Not just Barbara, Bruce Timm used Batman as his self insert with Lois Lane and Wonder Woman, too.

[@ethandoyle4978]

I get not every one was fine with Tim and Barbara, but I personally it’s way better then what they did in the killing joke, or even the messed up love triangle between barb, Dick, and Bruce! I mean what the hell ? They should just have her an original character like John Blake.

[@demonteprice5870]

They already did man; Three Jokers made Jason/Barb an official thing, and while this is not a pairing, do you not recall Barbara being Alfred's niece in the 1997 Batman and Robin?

[@MBGamesHD]

At least Robin got to take out Harley, Black Mask and Two Face in the Arkhamverse. Nightwing is written like a complete chump that can barely keep up with the Penguin and let's not forget he got wrecked by Harley for fuck's sake

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

If you payed attention, penguin was anticipating nightwing’s movement, any sudden movement and penguin will get a shot off. Nightwing used the flying Grayson story to distract penguin to subduing him is easier. Also Harley Quinn has displayed proficiency at hand to hand combat. It was Ivy’s plant that finished off nightwing, not Quinn. If the fight had gone on longer then Grayson would’ve won. Also why are we ignoring the obvious character flaw that Grayson gets arrogant and doesn’t take situations seriously and therefore doesn’t give 100 percent effort. Character flaws are not flaws with the plot.

[@oliverthedum2129]

@@Stormtrooper-td2kynightwing being arrogant still doesn’t warrant being killed by penguin if Batman wasn’t there and being embarrassed by one singular ivy plant and Harley (who is consistently not at all a threat in melee combat for Tim or Bruce, although Tim does have to use stealth to take her down when she has a gun in Arkham city).

[@Rscued_Funk]

​@@Stormtrooper-td2ky bullshit

[@Dragon_Aoi]

@@Stormtrooper-td2ky Character flaws aren't bad. But it is really annoying how adaptions sometimes, will have Nightwing just take L's. And just have other characters do better than him, when Dick should have been fine in the first place. Not saying Dick can never lose, but it does get tiring that some adaptions like to treat Dick as incompetent, weak, as a jobber, when he is none of these things.

[@Dragon_Aoi]

As a Nightwing fan, adaptions (DCAU does this a lot) treating Dick like a jobber (sometimes in order to prop up and/or develop other characters, instead of treat Dick like a competent dude, and a great character that also deserves development. That he has gotten tons of over the decades. Etc.), weak, incompetent, having take way too many L's and/or not have wins, killing him off, and/or etc. Is very annoying. Welp, at least there are some great Dick adaptions out there. Like Young Justice and Teen Titans to name a couple. And at least Dick in the comics is continuing to be great (imo), and is looking to keep being better. So at least Dick fans are eating quite good right now. Still hoping Dick gets some more great adaptations and keeps getting the love and respect he deserves in stuff (both comics and adaptations) into the future.

[@smallkoolaid5238]

my biggest problem with Arkham Tim is they aged him up from a teenager in city to like mid 20s in knight just to pair him up with barbara

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

That's my biggest problem as well

[@kwayneboy1524]

Tim in City looked like he was 19 to 21 but I think they just modeled him weirdly.

[@damarkisallen1013]

He looks older than batman 😭

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

I never saw him as a teenager in City. I actually thought he was in his twenties (unless he was 19 at the time.) they likely aged him up for his relationship with Barbara

[@necro-esque666]

I feel like this is a consequence of the greater “BatGod” issue that really became the go to after BTAS. The idea that Batman can accomplish anything by himself without any help as long as he has enough prep time. I love the animated series and I like the Arkham games, but it’s hard to deny that they didn’t help perpetuate the idea that Batman doesn’t need Robin, or worse, Robin makes Batman weaker.

[@Galvatronover]

BTAs was the lesser of these what really solidified it was Morrison

[@Stormtrooper-td2ky]

Except the Arkham games don’t do this so what you are saying here is completely irrelevant. Alfred and Barbara are constantly assisting Batman in giving him information to progress to the next objective. Without them Batman would run into more brick walls.

[@piekark9951]

Id say more the nolan movies. Robin wasnt in them at all. The Dark Knight and dark knight rises was so massive and the biggest outlet for non batman fans to watch a batman movie that they are like oh we dont need robin because they are so good

[@wylser]

What's interesting is that the comics post 2010 have really wiped away the image of him being a Batgod showing him losing and requiring the support of his friends every now and then.

[@xoler2167]

Seems to me Paul Dini is the only one who seems to care about Robin in all forms of media. Remember what Bruce Timm did with Nightwing & Barbara’s relationship? Not to mention what happened to him afterwards in the Harley Quinn movie

[@HIWES433]

It seems to me the writing team got overconfident after CITY and wanted to write the last Ark on their own and messed up all the previously hinted story-related elements or just flat-out abandoned them.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@HIWES433 How so?

[@HIWES433]

​@@dylansharp8471 Abandoning the Hush Antagonist setup from City for some reason, while still including him in Knight, is very poorly done. Multiple side missions have writing that's quite uninteresting and repetitive game design. Using Jason Todd as a twist, even though you can see it coming from a mile away. Putting Deathstroke in the game as a tank battle, when he is known to be one of the best hand-to-hand fighters Batman has ever come across.

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

​@@HIWES433 I think that's the result of having too many writers as well.

[@HOTD108_]

9:31 "Prequel to the entire series" Except for Origins, and Origins Blackgate, and Arkham Shadow.

[@HOTD108_]

A Matter of Family must take place like a week before Asylum or something because it features Tim as Robin, meaning both Dick and Jason have come and gone as Robin as had full careers already. Actually doesn't Joker say that Batman doesn't have a sidekick in Asylum because Jason is "dead"? But that doesn't make sense if Joker met Tim in A Matter of Family. Lol, the Arkham timeline was so broken by Knight.

[@amarithompson4196]

@@HOTD108_literally. It woudve made much more sense timeline and continuity wise if Jason was robin in a matter of family instead of Tim

[@dustinakadustin]

​@@HOTD108_I'd say Origins broke it first by being set only 5 years prior to Asylum.

[@LegendaryOverfiend]

Arkham City came out at a time when they wanted to make robin look as cool as possible cause hating on Robin was considered cool still

[@oliverthedum2129]

And then they gave a reason for people to hate on him in the next game 😭

[@TYfariguy]

Barbara’s episode could’ve *EASILY* given us Jason as Robin but they wanted to force this relationship so bad…..

[@adamkovalsky239]

Happy too see you're doing good enough to upload again

[@themadtitan7603]

9:47 The idea behind the buzzcut for those who don't know was that, according to visual artist Kan Muftic, they envisioned him as a cage fighter in his spare time. I don't think the games themselves support that, but it speaks to a core issue with his portrayal that I have in addition to all that you mentioned: they went for a gritty, grounded, adult take at Robin like in Schumacher films rather than embrace a more comic-book depiction like the games (especially the first two) have had so for with almost everything else. It's not just that I wanted to see a younger, more colorful Robin, I also think it would've been vital to Tim's place in Batman story following Jason's death & Arkham Asylum. Batman had just lost his son a couple of years earlier and went through the most psychologically straining night of his life in the place that happened, Tim is supposed to be the ray of light in his life right now that not only reminds him of the hope part of his crusade but by product also the importance of having a Robin in a time when Batman likely had a lot thoughts about endangering another young man. While I think this Tim is totally wasted for now (unless they do an Arkhamverse Gotham Knights, Batman Beyond, or a Batman: Return to Gotham game) I think there's still hope for a fully utilized and well developed Robin in the series. As another commentor here stated, an Arkham Origins 2 could easily rectify this issue by focusing on the younger, rasher Origins-era Batman guiding this passionate but aimless young delinquent guided by anger & grief. While Dick could serve as beacon of hope for him too as similarly to what I stated about Batman following Asylum, he could be shown to be in a bit a low point & feeling alone now that he's lost his childhood friend.

[@gfilmer7150]

There's also the fact that them making Tim Drake a cage fighter feels out of character for the calm and polite Tim Drake, who is supposed to be The World's Greatest Detective once he gets older. This Robin, like the DCAU Tim Drake, feels more like Jason Todd. Part of me kinda wishes that they replaced Tim for Jason (Tim is a Top 3 character for me) in these guys.

[@themadtitan7603]

​@@gfilmer7150 That too was also on the tip of my tongue! Tim Drake being this burly & "edgy" looking cage fighter feels so out of sync with the smartest and most detective-oriented member of the Bat-Family besides Batman. Which on a side note, I actually wish there was more body type diversity in between the different Robins rather than all of them being 6ft+ 200 hunks. And I agree, now that you mentioned it, Jason's Robin model is a lot closer to how I envision a leaner, brighter, and more reserved Tim Drake and I do like the idea of swapping them. Imagine Tim in A Matter of Family but it's actually Jason like it many pointed out it should've been in an Asylum prequel.

[@PizzaTime1983]

⁠​⁠@@gfilmer7150this. The way they changed him, reminds me more off Jason than anything. Also the fact that it feels like they had to age him up. I understand with robin it gets complicated, since he’s a kid. But still.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@PizzaTime1983 Since this series is already doing all kinds of wild stuff, it would’ve been refreshing to have Jason as the current Robin, which would have meant Jason couldn’t’ve been the Arkham Knight and maybe we end up with Hush being the big bad as originally planned.

[@PizzaTime1983]

@@gfilmer7150 there we’re doing the whole thing where robin was Tim for a long time. I believe Damian was already introduced by the time asylum was released. If I have that information wrong plz let me know. I agree with you I would’ve preferred Jason being robin since I think Tim is literally him even with that buzz cut lol. Also I heard hush was originally going to be the main antagonist. Where did u get that information? I forgot.

[@Enigma75614]

WB has an opportunity to correct this mistake with an Arkham Origins sequel. It could follow Batman and Dick Grayson’s Robin fighting the Court of Owls. They could have the whole game be like those tag team sections in Arkham Knight. They could also finally confirm the fan theory that the Court of Owls killed Anarky, and have that be the opening sequence. Then the game starts with Batman investigating his murder. It would be a money printer.

[@themadtitan7603]

I absolutely agree and that's a big reason an Arkham Origins sequel has been my most anticipated concept game for years now and even more so now after Arkham Shadow. It & even another sequel could be truly dynamic duo Arkham games showing Origins-era Batman putting all the lessons he learned to the test with this kid that he places under his wings so he wouldn't have to turn out like him, but better. And the Court of Owls would be the perfect premise for another mystery story in the Origins-era that has personal ties to Dick's character, challenges the still fairly young Batman's perception of crime & corruption in Gotham, and would be sort of like Dark Victory in that it's a mystery story featuring Batman taking on Dick as Robin. Alternatively, they could do an adaptation of that & leave the Court for Origins 3 as the big finale for the first era of Batman's career, featuring other characters like Prometheus & Bane, like Game Den's pitch.

[@demonteprice5870]

Arkham Shadow made me want this.

[@juliangrant9718]

Enough with the Court of Owls! One of the most overrated storylines in Batman history. Geoff Johns is not a great writer. The New World Order/Illuminati is not an interesting villain. The best villains to adapt for Arkham would be the Anti-Batman. Arkham Origins was about year two of Batman. It only makes sense to see how Batman inspired other "Batmen" for the villains side and sending those first villains to Arkham. Add them all - Wrath, Prometheus, Killer Moth, make a in-universe version of Owlman for all I care. We need to see The Creeper, an actual mission with Calender Man, finally put Warren White in the game which would tie directly into the Asylum, Ventriloquist, first encounter with Poison Ivy, Catwoman as a villain, Mad Hatter with Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, Humpty Dumpty, Maxi Zeus. And at the heart of the story, have Harvey Dent turn into Two-Face. Its should be a story that focuses on the mental illness of Arkham patients. You can't do that with the Court. There's nothing about them that works thematically. They are just a secret society. Boring.

[@БогданКрименюк]

Too late, there's already no place for events between Shadow and Asylum They had the chance to make it INSTEAD of shadow and make it a normal style accessible game but they didn't. Yes I'm still salty about META VR exclusivity

[@themadtitan7603]

​@@БогданКрименюк So is that why I see people talking like they can do any more sequels to Origins now after Shadow? It seems they do think there's no space after Origins, after all. That's not true, Origins & Asylum take place 8 years apart and Shadow takes place in Year 3, there's still a 7 year gap of stories that I think can 2, 3 maybe 4 games in there.

[@juliangrant9718]

I never had a problem with the Arkham Knight design. The crew cut hair was an obvious reference to the design of Chris O'Donnell's hair. The problem with it in Knight is that the hair mechanics are a bit weird leaving stringy gaps so when it's that short it looks thinning. I think they did as much as they could with him. He wasn't an important character to delve into. They've paired Babs up with everyone. Why not Tim for the Arkhamverse? He's the active Robin for those games. I'm sure they would've done it with Grayson if he was the main Robin.

[@Xehanort10]

10:46 Arkham Tim Drake looks more like the Chris O Donnell Dick Grayson from Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. A 30 something guy pretending to be in his late teens or early 20's.

[@themadtitan7603]

I think that was their inspiration and like the filmmakers behind BF & B&R, they were scared off attempting a teenaged Robin rather than embrace it with the games being as comicbook-y as they are. Even the bald head, based on an interview with visual artist Kan Muftic, was an attempt at grounding him as a cage fighter.

[@LegitBuiscuts]

4:45 "stands up for him"

[@hungryfohduhbag]

😭😭😭😭

[@milkiassamuel780]

Why is Tim Drake's Robin always getting so much disrespect from DC and never getting the love and recognition he used to get back in the 90s? He was arguably the best Robin, with the best detective skills and was the first Robin to define a generation of fans. Yet nowadays, he's either terribly written or just completely forgotten about when he's such a great character who acted as Bruce's emotional anchor when he was grieving over Jason and lost a lot of his compassion, thus becoming more brutal. It's only because of Tim's belief, brains, and insistence that Batman needs a Robin that he not only helped Bruce overcome his grief but also healed from it and rekindled his humanity again. Tim frankly had to go through the most turmoil and training of any Robin just to prove himself worthy of the mantle of Robin.

[@PizzaTime1983]

There was a reason why robin was kept trying to find a cure. Bruce was trying to protect him from getting killed. Also, it was Warner bros Montreal that made a matter of family. And they didn’t have enough time to develop the dlc which shows.

[@SoyboyPeter]

The antidote is also for Bruce as well because the titan in his blood is still affecting his mental state

[@jonbodhi]

I think it should have been JASON in A Matter of Family. Jason’s only redeeming feature in AK was his refusal to hurt Babs. Showing that connection would’ve deepened his character in the main game.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

Only for Batman to stupidly lock him up in a cell which almost got him killed. Yeah no. You can’t defend this.

[@titanlink7898]

9:32 “In this prequel to the entire series-“ *Arkham Origins peeks at you from around the corner*

[@SuperSwimTeam7]

Loved the vid, condensed a lot of the things I've thought about Robin for over a decade, then went deeper than I'd ever thought to. Excellent vid!

[@omoefeasiemo3601]

Hey I know you 😊

[@katz7609]

The issue with the Arkham games is that any of the Robins were bound to be mediocre due to the heavy focus of Batman (Understandable) that's why Barbara's characterization isn't destroyed. Tim and Dick are the detective Robins (More so Tim.) so why not have him be involved with the cases, like Riddler, Professor Pyg, Firefly? It could have been a funny interaction with Batman, Robin, and Catwoman solving the puzzles with Riddler together.

[@dylansharp8471]

What about Barbara?

[@katz7609]

@@dylansharp8471 Barbara is simply the hacker, so she could be used accordingly without appearing to be wasting the character. However, when you get into prominent characters such as Tim and Dick, who are on the field with Batman, it gets complicated. Hence why I believe Tim should have been working the murder cases, and Dick is working the robbery cases.

[@joeker5208]

9:30 “Prequel to the entire series”…..poor Origins😂

[@GameDenColor]

oops Freudian slip... 👀

[@joeker5208]

@ don’t worry. Everyone’s a bit rusty after a hiatus. Good to have ya back

[@GokhanAras-pj1mm]

Also Blackgate and Shadow

[@comicfan1324]

If rocksteady sticks to their guns and keep suicide, squad canon, I feel like they should do one of two things with the “death of Robin” 1. Retcon. We technically don’t see a body, so for all we know Robin could’ve escaped from the clone Batman and his mask was just knocked off in the fight. That would actually be a really good way to establish that this clone Batman isn’t nearly as impressive as the original or that robin has truly grown to a point where he could hold his own in a fight against Batman 2. If you decide to keep him dead, you better show Bruce morning, the death of his son. Like instead of getting another crime Alley scene, we get a depth of Tim Drake scene.

[@Dorian_Kellum]

They still (as far as I know) haven’t said how old everyone is. Which makes us assume the worst given what we see in other continuities. He looks 30 but is apparently the youngest. Barbra was Batgirl while Jason was Robin and at least involved with the mission when Dick was active. How long was each Robin’s tenure as Robin? A Matter of Family makes me think Barbra was crippled very recently in-universe (even though she’s very well established as Oracle) so he couldn’t have been Robin for very long, yet when Bruce accidentally started to call him Jason in the studio, he said: “You haven’t done that in a while”, and Joker shows Jason a picture of Tim as Robin while he’s trapped at Arkham, and that was at least a year… My head hurts.

[@jpmateta3619]

I still don’t understand why people hate him being bald. I think it looks cold af

[@abiodunsulaiman2297]

Why the fuck did they make him look like eminem

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

I'm sorry but you are just wrong

[@jpmateta3619]

@ nah it looks good imo. Makes him seem like an actual disciplined warrior

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

@jpmateta3619 cool don't care but you are still wrong

[@jpmateta3619]

@@CrimsonEdits-m2h nah

[@RedcoatTrooper]

I am hopeful that Shadow gets a sequel and we see more of Dick Grayson as Robin at least, showing Batman actual have a partner for once rather than locking them on a box.

[@kevinkubica2989]

I agree on all counts, Tim is my all time favorite comic character after reading through his Red Robin run back in 2009 (and have since gone back and looked at the rest) What grinds my gears is that Tim's bio in-game is basically a cliff notes retelling of his origins from the comics but his characterization in the story doesn't really seem to match it. Ironically, despite having much more mediocre gameplay, Gotham Knights handled Tim's story and characterization much better.

[@lessonmet5291]

The only good thing about this Robin is the amount of patience and loyalty he has towards his allies even after they betray and doubt him. The writers could have EASILY had a fleshed out arc with Robin in the main story, but Batman constantly treats him like this, and even his own girlfriend does not have faith in him. Not once has Robin ever denied trust, disobeyed an order, or even second guess himself. He is clearly a capable hero, but no one ever sees it. It really sucks that he only allowed to be on his own in the DLC. It would have been great to actually play a section of the game as him when Batman was locked in the cell, but no, the writers have no faith in him so we HAVE to betray Robin. What is crazy is that Robin clearly has some advantages over Batman He's small er and flexible (though not as much as Batgirl), knows what younger people are into, and on more than once occasion, can solve problems and even some of Riddler's clues when Batman is stumped. You have a rising hero right there, but you're just treating him like a dork. Whoever wrote him in Arkahm City clearly had some love for the character, and were hoping he grows in the next game. But by the time Knight happened, he's just reverted right back to a mistreated person who no one, not even the narrative of the game itself even likes Robin. I mean at least make a sequel to Arkham Origins where you can be introduced to Robin and play as him instead of Batman for a change.

[@humz437]

literally binged your channel last week cause of the hiatus, happy to see youre back

[@frontalcow4861]

3:10 in Arkham City main story, when Batman contacts Oracle and she contacts Robin, Robin accidentally believes Batman is Oracle and there's this dialogue where they hint you that Robin and Oracle are dating As far as I remember, it happens near Wonder City

[@Ayyothatsbrandogaming]

I don’t recall that dialogue alluding to it I’ve always interpreted it as friendly banter between the two

[@FoxarociousPLAYS]

Tim Drake is an avenue they should have gone after post-Arkham Knight. This could have been the universe Tim actually becomes a version of Batman trained by Bruce in the shadows. I would have had Tim Drake be the "man in the chair" for Terry McGinnis if I was in charge of "Arkham Beyond" or whatever they end up making in the future

[@jlpgamin]

6:14 my thoughts exactly. They definitely changed it last minute from Dick and Barbara to Tim and Barbara as a cop out to have some reason to keep Robin out the main story. They literally have her character model with Flying Graysons memorabilia setting it up

[@DrRexie]

I think the age between Barbara Gordon and Tim Drake would be rather large don't you think seeing as if she's normally dating Dick Grayson and Dick Grayson comes unseen so much earlier than Tim Drake or Damian Wayne in this case I honestly feel like the age gap would be as creepy as anakin Skywalker when he's a kid and padme armadala in Star wars the prequel series but yet in this Tim Drake looks to have been severely aged up

[@CJE_04]

In my best joker voice….”HE’S BACK!!”🥳

[@adamH.1]

I read that in Stone's voice from Sonic

[@Sam_Gunn]

The man…the myth…the legend…HE’S BACK!!

[@ethandoyle4978]

Now that I think about , they’re should’ve just had Stephanie brown being with Tim and have her or even her and Barbara being kidnapped. And Barbara could have a new character as a love interest, or even John Blake ( original character from the dark knight rises ).

[@GokhanAras-pj1mm]

Dan Didio probably wouldn't allow the usage of Steph in the game.He made sure that Steph and Cass wouldn't show up when he was in charge of Dc editorial hence why it took rebirth era of the Dc comics to Steph and Cass to return and make apparences outside of the comics.Dan Didio wasn't in charge during that time.

[@bro-what-25]

Overall I never liked the Batfamily stuff in the Arkham verse, oracle and alfred were fine, but everyone else was just ranging from mid to bad... Hell, Kate Kane was just a voice mail but at least she wasn't done like Tim...

[@Jay_Walker92]

Maybe I just don't care enough...I don't care about a video game relationship

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

That's completely understandable

[@Timgoesgym]

Having the whole family interact in the story, i.e. nightwing taking on the penguin mission solo, robin taking on another villain maybe even two face solo, would have made the game more believable it got done in one night. Even allowing the player to play as a different character for side missions. A duo mission with Robin and Nightwing where Robin can vent his frustrations about Batman shutting him out and Nightwing telling him he needs to build his own identity because Batman trusts him enough to do it now he just doesnt see it. Leading to Tim going to the Red Robin role in his DLC. Dick Grayson should have been the robin in matter of family and they should have been together more with robin having the little brother feel in the family. Wasted potential.

[@itsproxy6]

I hate how robins suit in Arkham knight looks really sleek and cool but they left his hood down. I hate even more that they put his hood on for a split second in the intro of a matter of family just to tease us.

[@comicfan1324]

As much as I like his Arkham city design, I have one major issue: the fingerless gloves. Now, does it look cool? Yes. Does it help make this suit look more unique? Also, yes. However, think of it practically: he’s just gonna end up, putting his fingerprints all over the crime scene, which could both reveal his own identity or potentially frame himself for the crime. I don’t mind Superman, not wearing gloves because most people don’t even think Superman has a secret identity, and he can get away with that automatically because he’s not supposed to be a detective analyzing crime scenes. But I feel like Batman and Robin should definitely have something covering their fingertips both for the sake of maintaining their secret and ensuring that the crime scene stays as clean as possible.

[@boletop6204]

hooded robin is better, but the buzz cut is also cool, makes him look more serious as he is cartoony enough as it is in that colorful outfit (which makes no sense ofc, why would u be in a colorful outfit so your enemies can spot you easier? )

[@thefonzkiss]

1:47 this isn’t a Robin thing, that Black Mask thing is playable with all four characters in City.

[@kbgetpaiddd]

It was made for robin specifically. But it just happened to be playable with all characters

[@alexandrert8252]

When I first played Arkham City like a month ago, I got so excited when I saw him and Catwoman on the Steam Banner thinking they would be key characters and got so sad that they had like 5 scenes between the two and 4 of them were Catwoman's lol

[@GoblinFromOblivion]

Someone had a fan theory somewhere that the Robin we see in Matter of Family was actually Jason Todd, or at least should have been. It would have made sense storytelling wise.

[@j7520]

always hated arkham knight and the car. such a good idea and such a bad execution. I had a feeling it would never get any better than Asylum and city

[@ItsYaBoiPhoenix]

1. Barbara and Dick never had a relationship in this universe. 2. The age difference between Tim and Barbara is only 1-2 years with Barbara being slightly older. 3. Robin has a buzz cut because he was going undercover in a fight club Don’t get me wrong I can agree Robin was mishandled through Arkham Knight, but there are in universe explanations for the decisions made that shouldn’t be overlooked.

[@kwayneboy1524]

I kinda think buzcut Robin makes sense considering how hair is always gonna be pulled in a fight like even in the comics Robin and Batgirl dealt with that. Gordon literally nearly figured out Babs was Batgirl when he saw red hair at a crime scene before Batman tricked him.

[@kovalfetterer2218]

So glad to see you back!

[@TerranToro]

One small thing about Robin that always pissed me off in AK, besides how often he gets done dirty, is that a lot of his uniqueness was stripped away. In AC, he had a lot of unique animations, takedowns & gadgets but in Knight they got lazy and replaced a good chunk of them with Batman's. Same with Nightwing.

[@thecommiesalamie]

My comment is going to be like 70% cope and 30% actually believing this but in SSKJL the Suicide Squad said he was dead. Which isn't really the most concrete thing imo. It's his mask and enough blood for a scratch on the face. I don't think he's actually dead I mean the whole game they were trying to tell us the Justice League were actually the justice league we know and love and it turns out there were clones the whole time. Not saying Robin is a clone too but I don't think he's dead. Also it would be such a shame having that awesome character being killed by fake Batman.

[@thahotkidd]

Couple of things. I agree 100% about how they should have kept the hood if they were going with him being bald. The Arkham Knight suit looked infinitely better with the hood up. It also weird that they kept the design for matter of family when the tie in comics showed he only shaved his head in the first place to go undercover in Penguins fight club in Arkham City. Also putting him with Barbara wasnt just a disservice to both characters but pushing it also hurt the narrative. For example having Jason be the Robin in the dlc would've been a much better companion piece to the story vs trying to sell us on a poorly done relationship

[@SpiderSora]

Gotham Knights Robin was treated better

[@Ayyothatsbrandogaming]

This is not a crazy thing to say

[@tezdoom]

It’s also weird that Tim was the Robin in ‘A Matter of Family.’ Felt like that should’ve been DG as Robin and we could’ve gotten a closer look at him and Barbara’s relationship.

[@christaylor7916]

I’ll NEVER forgive them for making Harley Quinn defeat NIGHTWING! LIKE SERIOUSLY??????

[@thefonzkiss]

They nerfed all those characters in Knight, got rid of some of their weapons from city. Knight sucked.

[@flashtheshapeshafter]

Robin's introduction during Arkham City was so good and then they Tim fumbled every opportunity in Arkham Knight even after promising the bat family was going to have a role in the story I don't understand

[@placidolimaneto7685]

So happy you returned. Welcome back!

[@nicholastipple667]

They should’ve continued the Arkham series with a Robin/Nightwing spinoff game.

[@omermoinuddin4776]

I'm happy somebody has made a video about this. Robin and Barbara's relationship is something I've never thought they would do. This "Robin" should have been Red Robin; considering it's Tim Drake being in the new mantle after Jason's Robin and Stephanie Brown (The Spoiler) should have been Tim's lover than Barbara. In the comics, Tim Drake is Red Robin, and his girlfriend is Stephanie Brown (The Spoiler).

[@kwayneboy1524]

Yeah by this point in the games Tim should've reached The Red Robin code name. Plus in the comics the Red Robin suit was practically just Batman's updated Robin costume for Jason so it wouldn't be hard just to say that Tim updated his suit to like that.

[@omermoinuddin4776]

@kwayneboy1524 And now we need Stephanie Brown to be adapted from comics to video games, movies, and animation as well other media. She's an underrated character and deserves more recognition and love from various audiences from different media.

[@MqBuffon]

10:03 it sucks that the cutscene seems to be pre-rendered, so the alternate costumes don't change in it

[@timetovibe2939]

Thank you for coming back 🙏

[@dannywanny1412]

One of the worst things about Knight is that it has absolutely no idea how to write the Batfamily

[@HoodOfCrows]

I used to love playing as Arkham Robin.

[@LibertyBridgeProductions]

I liked him in City and Knight tbh.

[@Ryan-zo9zt]

Wow, I did not expect to see another upload. Glad to see you back!

[@justoneguy2487]

I immediately gave Robin one of his DLC skins in AK just so he had hair 😂

[@The_Phantasm]

Hey! Glad to have you back. I hope you're feeling better. I definitely agree that Tim Drake was never adapted well in the Arkhamverse and in general the Bat Family was very under utilised. In the case of Tim Drake however they really just wrote him more like Dick Grayson and never used his intelligence or detective skills. And what were they thinking having him in a relationship with Barbara.

[@InvinciDon]

Not continuing the Arkham Games was a massive mistake. Also, as bad as I feel for Tim in terms of his character, I feel like we didn’t get enough of Nightwing either. His development wasn’t bad or terrible, it was good, but there’s a lot implied that I wish we saw more of. Why did he & Barbara break up? Were they actually a couple? How old is he? Sh!t like that, and I genuinely wish we got to see more of characters like him too.

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

Richard and Barbra never dated or interacted, I know that Barbara and Richard have heard of each other but they aren't close & barely know each other

[@clipsdelosmajes]

I mean I wasn't expecting Teen Titans Robin style when the games were always about Batman working "alone". Harley's Revenge was pretty awesome and cool, wouldn't have minded playing as him much more in future games or other DLCs. And having the whole mechanic about group fights with him and Nightwing were also really awesome.

[@ricardosalguedo5208]

Good to hear from you again. I hope all is well.

[@JesterDustt]

I missed you! I’m so glad you feel well enough to upload :3 you’re content is some of the best stuff on this platform

[@DaumieAlonzo]

Glad to see you're back and seemingly in a healthier mindset to create again. I watched the Arkham Origins sequel video and had to come and beg for that dragon ball budokai retrospective to be made sometime dawg I need to see that video 😭😭

[@Lucas-t9n3y]

Bro has made comeback of the year

[@empty_melodies]

If only they did more with Robin…

[@morganmajtyka2848]

Really great seeing you again

[@popshot8898]

That's so crazy that i literally just subscribed yesterday, and now you upload. Thanks for all the content 🙌

[@dantecaballero96]

I think their relationship started "on the wrong foot"

[@lastsonoftennessee9895]

I was going to comment my thoughts, but I think your video captured everything I wanted to say.

[@splendidwolf442]

Glad you’re back! :)

[@Krondon-SSR]

i kinda like bald or buzzcut buff robin. (yeah it kinda looks weird in-game, some rendering mistake?)

[@P5kr]

I love Arkham City Robin so much. He's so freaking cool. His depiction in Arkham knight only really bothers me because it's such a far cry from his depiction in City.

[@akira17_samurai]

I think having robin and nightwing playable would've been great addition to arkham knight

[@Aisonic95]

In the Arkham Unhinged comic (prequel to Arkham City), Tim shaved his head Cuz he went undercover, I vaguely remember he actually has hair in one of the panels. That's why I didn't like what they did with his appearance in the Bargirl DLC, there's a continuity error

[@Volvagia1927]

9:23: And now I'm just thinking about The Apple. "Hey, hey, hey, BIM's On the Way!" I'm so sorry.

[@m0t5u75]

I think that a simple response for that is: he is batman sidekick

[@robchuk4136]

From Star Wars: Force Unleashed, to InFamous, 'shaved-head white guy' was a trend in character design in those days. Kind of like the 'Kilmonger Cut' we're seeing with black guys today. It was a phase. Anyway, spending more time with Robin(s) was one of the reasons I was excited about Gotham Knight, and wish that was a better game. Because to be fair, outside of the comics, it seems everyone has trouble figuring out how to make Robin work in a satisfying way. He's always a conceptual challenge, and never seems to fit a lot of these creator's visions for Batman. That's why so many adaptations don't even bother. In that sense, I guess that's why I don't mind what small doses I get of him, flawed though he may be. He's lucky to be included at all.

[@michealwillingham9014]

Robin and Nightwing should’ve just had their own solo games instead of Ass squad: kill The Ass league and Robin definitely deserved way better than that

[@dbmozak8871]

7:29 It's not strange Oracle (Barbara) is only about 3-4 years older then Robin (Tim Drake) in arkhamverse. The strange would be if he is a kid arunf 14 and she is in her's mid 20s

[@after-hours]

But I have to say in the flip of the coin DLC when Barbara says you are always the good cop that was a good moment because it showed her relationship between Bruce and Tim and yes she doesn't want Tim to be like Bruce

[@hinkhall8451]

Seriously the Tim and Barbara thing is so out of place and distracting. It was very clearly Seftons fan ship. Should've kept Dini

[@HOTD108_]

Listen man, you HAVE to stop using footage from the Return to Arkham remaster versions. They look so much worse than the OG versions with the removed details and nerfed lighting effects.

[@user-cx5fd9qs2j]

I'm a simple man, I see a Game Den Return I click

[@dustinakadustin]

I feel like Arkham Knight misused the entire bat family.

[@kevintyson1947]

Whats even worse with Tim and Babs relationship is that a comic tie-in confirmed that she still dated Dick at one point

[@GokhanAras-pj1mm]

Wait,it did?Yikes, that is bad.Is there a info on how old are Tim,Barbara and Dick?

[@Enigma75614]

He has returned!

[@disneyboy3030]

Are you going to do a video on the side missions for Arkham Unleashed. If so I do have two side mission ideas you may be interested in. Want to hear them.

[@dylansharp8471]

Unleashed?

[@oliverthedum2129]

Bros living on earth 2

[@SpeedosAndTheGun]

Batman Arkham series fell off after Arkham city