An Interview with George R.R. Martin | Official Game of Thrones Podcast: Episode 3 (HBO)

[@shara-v6074]

The way he tells the story about his teacher being like "you're too smart to read that fantasy trash" was so funny, "I liked the trash." Me too George!

[@randomdude4207]

Those people think it's trash because they only think about the action, and not about the fascinating characters clashing in it!

[@Thenoobestgirl]

His teacher probably watches the show today (if he's still alive)

[@shara-v6074]

Love how he speaks politely about GOT but still throws massive shade, he's become a true professional at that.

[@poub06]

He didn't throw any shade at GoT though. And he shouldn't. This show made him a rockstar and the story hit a bumpy road at the exact same place that he's been stuck for a decade. Can't we just stop with this fake war between the two shows? GoT is done. D&D have moved one. We have a new show coming that wouldn't happen if not for its predecessor and it looks amazing.

[@puma12345ace]

@@poub06 Damn, finally a mature take, thanks

[@shara-v6074]

@@poub06 "Throw shade" specifically means you're not saying something negative directly but the implication is still there. When he talks about the Arya scene, he says: "It was my scene come alive, these were my characters, and um, nothing felt better than to see that happen. But, of course there's always the flipside of that, is where suddenly you're seeing a scene and saying, 'What the hell have they done here, that's not how it was supposed go. My character would never do that, my character would never say that.' And that can be frustrating." He doesn't directly say that that was sometimes the case with GOT but it is implied. It's also possible there were times like that with HOTD, although he seems pretty happy so far, like he was with GOT in the beginning too. As was I in the early seasons of it, and I am really excited for the new show.

[@yvonneturnbull5982]

Thats wat i mean.!!!

[@EldenLord.]

@@poub06 GoT was ruined by D&D alone. GRRM wanted to do more seasons but these two idiots just wanted to rush it.

[@JohansPlanet]

Potcast really starts at freaking 8:30 You're welcome

[@jaredvester]

My savior.

[@Cunnysmythe]

Thank you These two combine to become something really annoying Don't know about the guy but I've enjoyed Nerdette in the past

[@kiara4345]

Hail Johan Strøm

[@ladyteh]

Ffs I was wondering....

[@ladyteh]

🙌🏼

[@Henlofly]

I feel like George wasn't happy and was very disappointed with the ending of GOT so he's making it up to his fans and the legacy of his creation, I expect this to be 10/10. Edit: I was wrong, house of dragons is trash.

[@euphegenia]

yeah, there's no way he liked how GoT ended. It was so conspicuously bad. Edit: terrible grammar 🙄

[@klaythompson663]

George is a hypocrite who defended the ending of the original show and said it was based on his own. Now he says he had no idea and his ending will be different, while still pretending not to understand why people hated it.

[@longling194]

Then he should write the book and stop lying

[@johnhopkinson4054]

@@klaythompson663 Not entirely true, he actually said that was just one of the ways the show could have ended but he certainly wasn't looking at seasons 7 and 8 only being 13 episodes that was all down to Weiss and Benniof..He was on board with what HBO wanted which was 10 seasons and season 7,8,9 and 10 to be 10 episodes long to complete the whole story and the character arcs that needed concluding correctly..And he certainly didn't want the final 2 seasons to be all about visuals and moronic script writing which it ended up being.

[@plisskenetic]

Danny - Your lame comment is a huge laugh! That's clearly just your silly prejudice making stuff up in your head. So many including you clearly never got around to researching & finding out that what happens in season 8 IS HIS ACTUAL ENDING. And he's in fact NEVER the kind of author who wants his story to please everyone. He always wants them in cynic tragedy ala Shakespeare. The kind that would easily infuriate/ scar people. LOTS of people make the WRONG assumption that his stories are meant to be crowd pleasers like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, MCU etc.

[@armandogomez5898]

I’m so excited for this new chapter to begin 👏🏼

[@payhemseht]

Interview starts at 8:20

[@user-wb9dn7zz7o]

Thank you that first part was painful

[@DavidAhnn]

Thanks cuh

[@aegonthedragon6341]

Ah, a caped hero

[@saintjimmy456]

George is a "gardener" writer. He starts typing and the story flows. I think part of the reason the next book is so delayed is that he had to tell the story already to the show runners. Once you know where you are going it can be hard for a gardener-type writer to sit down and write out what you already know is going to happen.

[@TheTwinklinglilstar]

I still think George can make this go however he wants. Maybe the ending doesn't have to be exactly the same. They left out a lot of good things that make his books great. I still hoping to be wowed and surprised by his ending.

[@ceezy585]

Tell that to to the creator of better call Saul. kind of same with house of the dragon. We do know where we are going

[@Sal3600]

he has said the books will diverge from the show.

[@reynaldomachaca1577]

A Dream of Spring!!! Please 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@N.Kunwar.]

I'm a die hard fan of Mr.Martin now❤.

[@abdulsalamibrahim3354]

One of the best interviews, George is a genius writer thank you ❤️❤️❤️

[@SerHuntsReviews]

This episode was great, Thanks guys!

[@ClaireYunFarronXIII]

Awesome work, Martin. Truly inspirational. 💕

[@nagamata]

A timestamp for the start of the interview would look absolutely stunning in the video description. 8:20

[@JeffKraschinski1969]

GRRM's teacher giving him static for reading sci-fi made me laugh. My grade 5 teacher did the exact opposite. And she was the one that got me into Tolkien to begin with lol.

[@Viroh]

Some people think stories are pointless and only news and facts matter, those people tend to be really boring tho

[@Creepy-Girl]

Very excited for the show and hope it won't end in such a premature and disappointing way that GoT did. George r Martin deserve his story to be told in the best way possible.

[@venlafaxinedomperidone8377]

Thank you HBO, for making my life so much better with this series

[@Divine_Chareka]

George RR Martin's legacy shall live on, I know someone is about to btch about how he hasn't finished his books yet. But the truth is that this man is a Foookin Legend, a Foookin Legend from Gin Alley 😤🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@batgurrl]

I’m excited waiting for the new ‘chapter’ to begin. Thanks for this🙏

[@gammakap]

This was incredible. Can’t wait to go through this journey with you. Thank you 🙏🏾

[@azgarogly]

For people who came here for GRRM interview: it starts @8:20. Literally first quarter of the video (oh, there is no video actually) is not as advertised. Great job, guys!

[@user-op6kt8pg9y]

Me whos been watching George rr martins interviews for the last 2 weeks and all of today: this gets uploaded

[@mjinba07]

Great interview. Starts at 8:20.

[@BobSaysWhat22]

As long as George involves in production and scripts like he did in first a few seasons of GOT, I am pretty optimistic. Where is D&D now btw ? They were sent to the Wall?

[@XxS1l3nTxa1Mx]

Yes for now they will prob get rid of him after this trend

[@aesir1ases64]

Great interview, its great to see the admiration George still has for Tolkien, specially when he mentioned how he despised allegory as well, which unfortunatelly has spreading like a cancer trough fiction works nowadays.

[@winter-jager]

Hey aspiring writer here, what’s wrong with allegory? I googled it but I don’t get what’s so bad about it, could you explain please?

[@takanara7]

@@winter-jager Nothing is wrong with it. Tolkien just didn't like people trying to analyze his work as "allegories" for various things because he just wrote it as straight fiction (lots of people said it was an allegory for WWII, for example). I suppose some people might be annoyed by people who try to put social commentary on today's world in works of fantasy or whatever, but if you look at Star Trek, for example it was all about commenting on stuff going on at the time and was very popular. You can watch it today and it's quite good still even if you don't know the local context.

[@winter-jager]

@@takanara7 ohhhh ok, I get it now. People look for something where there’s nothing. Thank you.

[@ama0370]

New Era Begin ❤️

[@thebutchersboy1138]

I want the winds of winter so bad.

[@freedom-jm8mj]

Everyone wants

[@larochejaquelein3680]

I‘ve been waiting since Season 2 of GOT dude

[@thelivesoftargaryens]

So interesting to get George's perspective on a lot of things. Fantastic interview :)

[@thedragondemands5186]

the rightful king has returned

[@hamzamahmood9565]

He'll probably need a wheelchair soon....

[@longling194]

Incel

[@poub06]

He talked about watching actors face. Did it trigger you?

[@EarnestTargenfyre]

I,m so excited 💥

[@dreamfyres]

4 days left!

[@akashr9215]

Is George R R Martin actively involved in writing 'House of the Dragon' ?

[@dreamfyres]

He helped write episode 1 with Ryan condal, and helped structure the entire season

[@akashr9215]

@@dreamfyres ohh good. Many people told GoT Season 8 was bad coz George R R Martin wasn't involved. If he's involved in HotD, it's going to be good😊

[@AnaIvanovic4ever]

He is actively involved in everything except finishing A Song of Ice and Fire.

[@shara-v6074]

He didn't directly write scripts but both him and Ryan Condal have said they were in contact a lot, he would answer questions and give his thoughts, and he read and gave feedback on all the scripts. :) GRRM was also the one who specifically asked Ryan Condal, whom he'd known for years and who was a big fan of the books, to write the pilot script and recommended him to HBO as the showrunner!

[@hmsonic119]

​@@shara-v6074 Another important point is also, that he wrote the Book Fire and Blood + lots of previous Material which the Show is based on. GoT was always very good, when the Episodes were based on written Books

[@ExtremeNeoclassical]

Give George a KZbin channel

[@Yolac88]

That was so short! I want more!

[@lucasadam65]

You gotta love him safty and peace be apon you

[@debragotenks]

I thought you were going to include the video in it as advertised on your tiktok. Will the official podcast be out? Will it premier on here or on HBO? Some countries don't have HBO.

[@dankmemes4dayz]

Why isnt there video for these podcasts

[@alexkontis3614]

Disappointed if this Podcast won't also be taped for the actual HOTD Show. This should be like a LIVE Show after the episode airs.

[@cr1s200]

I love those bad kids particularly, those are usually the more complex characters, i'm looking forward for this so bad.

[@danielle4829]

Please add video to the podcast 🥺

[@jacksparrow9227]

A particular set of characters in a particular time but then more characters in a different part of that world in that time

[@arjunmm280]

Martin uyir❤️

[@jacksparrow9227]

The first episode was not where Arya was balancing on stairs did they go to King’s Landing in the original unreleased pilot and made them arrive in Kings Landing in the show in episode 3?

[@BojangleBaggins]

That’s what I was thinking. Either George’s memory is failing him (most likely) or I hear there was a second pilot episode that they ended up scrapping. Maybe that one included the same scene?

[@kevinhernandez769]

no video?! was this recorded in the medieval ages?

[@IshaanBajaj7]

love you grrm

[@jay_ooh]

In regards to the Dragon app...I am so in awe with how many other dragons are flying around out there but my dragon, Danorelarr seems to be stunted...although it still says it's growing haha, but not registering in it's stats....but anyways. always glad to hear George talk about AWOFAI, would love to see "The Long Night" in HD and maybe FINALLY be able to see it...they didn't cover their heads because of the good ol Hollywood adage ...gotta see who the "stars" are in big scenes with others ...extras.

[@ceezy585]

are u referring to Dracaryus App?

[@jay_ooh]

@@ceezy585 yes!

[@simemble9342]

How is this the shortest podcasts of all 3 episodes, while it's GRRM himself? 😭

[@ibrahimjamal1345]

The hosts are so bad tbh

[@simemble9342]

@@ibrahimjamal1345 actually I agree with that. Lmao.

[@ibrahimjamal1345]

Thank you. I hope they bring in more good content rather than an ad for an app with a bad interface and limited access.

[@ibrahimjamal1345]

Also the jokes are just not landing for me. Maybe its my bad sense of humor

[@simemble9342]

@@ibrahimjamal1345 yeah, the male host is the same one who was hosting in HOTD comic con panel. And he was just as bad as in these podcasts.

[@grumpymonkeyenterprises6413]

Anyone remember when there were rumors he was getting dementia or something like that. I’m so glad he’s chilling

[@allluckyseven]

Aww, that was too short! I know he's a busy guy, but I could listen to him talk for hours. 27:14 - About the subtitles here, I believe George says "Stan Lee". As we all know, George was an avid Marvel reader back in the 60s, having had one of his letters published in Fantastic Four # 20.

[@SumriseHD]

Four twenty hehe

[@SHARKVADERS]

GOT!!!!!

[@bridge4]

Shark!!

[@peymantahmasebipour3419]

32 minutes and 57 seconds not spent writing Winds of Winter

[@dylanporter1550]

To everyone that doesn’t like this interviewer look for the history of Westeros interview with GRRM it should be out in the next week or so. And if you want asoiaf podcasts go to history of Westeros and radio Westeros. Both are excellent.

[@clownpendotfart]

I looked on his IMDB page and didn't see Max Headroom there.

[@KingScotto.]

3 days left 🤗

[@SerDunk]

George!!!!! Wooo 🖤🔥♥️

[@iCb0x]

Let’s get some time codes going for these next episodes

[@nguyenduchuy4506]

Film producer please do about the movie Aegon's conquest of the 7 kingdoms 1.. starring either Henry Cavill or Christian Bale.

[@anthonyfrederick3214]

OG flex from GRRM. First registrant at the first ComiCon.

[@ggiuliacosta]

4:50 omg ._. I want him DMing a D&D game and laughing like that ._.

[@jacksparrow9227]

Arya and Ned in Season 1 aren’t the same personalities as in the first book and they said something that does not fit their characters?

[@KingScotto.]

1 day left 🤗

[@AnaIvanovic4ever]

How is it going with The Winds of Winter?

[@shara-v6074]

Check out his blog, he posts updates about it pretty frequently. Recently he said he was hoping to be finishing the storyline of one character within the week, maybe even two.

[@larochejaquelein3680]

He‘s 80% done with WINDS

[@AnaIvanovic4ever]

@@larochejaquelein3680 yeah right...

[@Shemediatvs]

The right king

[@Gaborc86]

I didn't know Mclovin had a podcast

[@paulskelton4142]

One of the biggest and best things about GOT was the intro to each episode. Has anyone heard the one for this new show yet?

[@shara-v6074]

They're not even showing it at the premieres, it's being kept competely under wraps! Absolutely dying to hear and see it.

[@paulskelton4142]

@@shara-v6074 I just can't wait anymore ☺ I just hope it grabs you straightaway like Thrones.

[@geoafe66]

Hope its good

[@jacksparrow9227]

He probably just meant that they would never do or say that with Cersei and Robert since in the beginning she loved Robert

[@naeemkhancomedy4279]

I love game of thrones

[@lucasadam65]

We love asoiaf little champ

[@maskassmario321]

Goat himself

[@CymruJedi]

Dude sounds like a simpsons character

[@rockhardcaz-5602]

The dragon app is so cool my dragon is all grown up and is flying and I love it so much I took him to the beach and he found water and food and stuff, love this episode I can't wait for house of the dragon and can't wait for the next podcast, George is such a good writer I can't wait for the new book xxx

[@vercingetorixavernian8978]

Actually starts 8:22

[@fredtheted2259]

Regards the ending it rests solely with George, the story wasn’t finished he just gave the showrunners a few bullet points, which he now seems to be back tracking on

[@hanskaczka7688]

George isn't innocent but D&D should still have hired more creative minds to tell a better story or just cut storylines but wrap up things as George hinted in his books. I'm not so sure if the argument that all the actors needed screentime because otherwise they would have left the show was part of the reason why book 4 and 5 were cut so short in the TV show. Wasn't the red wedding the reason many people started to watch it? I think the viewership must have been decent by the end of season 4. And I completely understand that they cut material because some characters are introduced and killed off immediately. If you look at D&D's later interviews, they say that they wanted to make GOT for everyone and not just for fantasy fans. That's a pretty big deal in my opinion. Those magical elements play a big part in the story. I get it that they had to cut a lot because of budget but I'm pretty sure the later seasons could have afforded it. Jon is going to be 99% Azor Ahai in the books and in the show he is a complete joke after the Battle of the Bastards. He was supposed to be the key of the war against the others but in the end he isn't because it would have been too obvious? Wtf? Hints are not seen as predictable, uninteresting writing. I'm not saying D&D had an easy job to do. Even if they had adapted most of book 4 and 5, they would have had a hard time to wrap things up but some decisions they made were really not good (like ruining Jon Snow's resurrection purpose).

[@tarenhempstead559]

@@hanskaczka7688 Also with the way George writes he could not have given them a concrete answer on the ending. He doesn't fully know until he writes it. When they caught up to the books they should have come up with their own ending. They decided to just rush to the end instead. It also has to be said that they rushed through the first five books of material as well.

[@maestercraig3990]

​@@hanskaczka7688 - But Jon was "The Key of the war against the others" my friend. People may be expecting things to happen too literally here. For one, Prophecies dont always play out the way people expect them too . . . . . . . . if at all. Prophecies aren't meant in the literal terms, but instead left up into ambiguous interpretation, meaning they could be handled a million different ways. For example, people underestimate how much Jons role played here. Who's to say he didnt kill the Night King? He brought together The Nights Watch, The Wildlings, The North, Dany, Her Army & Her Dragons, he staged the battle that ended the White Walkers. He may not have landed the killing blow, but it could argued he played the part necessary to usher in the end of the White Walkers. Without him, The Walkers would have swept the lands. Just because he didnt land the final blow, doesnt mean it wasn't he who defeated them. He also put the nail in the coffin when Dany completely her final transformation into Mad Queen. All the details of the story could have been handled differently, more elegantly, but Westeros would have fallen without the unity Jon brought, & the last sacrificial move he made by ending the newly crowned Queen. He helped to lay waste to both "Ice & Fire". It may not fit the literal interpretation that people have fabricated in their minds, but as Prophecies dont always turn out in literal ways, expect the books to handle it ways that dont meet any of the literal interpretations people are expecting as well. You didnt think George would just hand people exactly what was going to happen with a couple of prophecies early on did you? This isnt Epic or Traditional Fantasy my friend, its Grimdark Fantasy. Expect the unexpected, the very ambiguous or subtle ways in which perspective plays a huge part. My point being, look at the show from a different perspective & you'll find Jon was "exactly where he needed to be" for this alternate version of A Song Of Ice & Fire (Game Of Thrones). Jon was the key the whole time, just as many people were keys to the puzzle as well. You just have to be open to exploring other perspectives & interpretations, something many in the shows fandom refuse to do unfortunately.

[@saintjimmy456]

@@hanskaczka7688 I think it is time to move on. The show ended over 3 years ago. No amount of essays in KZbin comments is going to change the ending.

[@mongezimaepa]

Before I even listen, why is this not 4 hours? 👿

[@realitytvcollection7265]

Are the Sunday podcast episodes still going to be posted on youtube weekly?

[@vaibhavawasthii]

After watching last scenes of hotd e1 I'm more disappointed in got's ending...

[@raemontargaryen3005]

19:15

[@juandiegomorenosanchez-con6767]

DRACARYS!!!!! 🔥🐉🗡🔥

[@manooxi327]

The low key diss on GoT ending 😂

[@d.e.7397]

If you can, can you please film yourselves during the podcast? Sorry I really like listening to yall its just extremely hard to process when I cant see the person speaking. It still works for those that prefer only audio and hopefully helps those that need a visual :)

[@jacobp5802]

Definitely 8 minutes I could of done without in the beginning, get to the interview jeez

[@nachtelfje2440]

Not a single question about how Winds of Winter is coming along?

[@NizarSL]

❤️🔥🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥

[@evelic]

Finish your damn books, George.

[@jacksparrow9227]

If I was Jaehaerys’s I’d have named Rhaenys the heir after Aemon’s death, if I was Viserys I would have married Laena or make Rhaenerya marry Aegon II

[@DavidDecero]

It sounds like GRRM is heavily involved this time. This should be good!

[@tylercox2875]

Finish the book george

[@klyanadkmorr]

I'm going to be more interested in the Aegon I conquering Westeros series of stories, Battles of the Ten Penny kings abt how the Mad King became MAD and young Tywin Lannister into Robert's Rebellion LET's SEE RHEAGAR!!- histories is so confusing with the names sounding the same from families dragons and male heir all being named similar to English & French monarchies John Robert Phillip Mark Edward wtf which ever whom & number

[@ZxRiGxZ]

Add VIDEO

[@ieradossantos]

I just don't understand how he can blame fans for being still cautious. Like.. Did he not experience the nuclear slap in our face that was season 8????

[@poub06]

He's not blaming fans for being cautious. He's blaming fans like you for being overdramatic. And looking at your comment, he's right.

[@kristianawilson9038]

The writer is different, it had a bigger budget, he's more actively involved, the entire story source material is already written unlike Song of Ice and Fire. So he's right in that regard

[@ieradossantos]

I can list 25 unanswered or unexplained setups, storylines or things that didn't matter of the top of my head. What are you talking about bro. You are saying season 8 was good enough?

[@poub06]

@@ieradossantos And I'm sure at least 3/4 of those 25 are you just being unsatistied with the payoffs/answers. Yes, S8 was good enough. It told us Georges ending in bullet points which is the only thing Georges managed to write in over a decade. This is not a "nuclear slap in your face", this is just you disappointed by your favorite TV show ending in a way you didn't like. And the fact that you still care that much about it, three years later, showed how much you care about this world and why you are going to be on your couch this Sunday, to watch this premiere, as Georges said.

[@ieradossantos]

Nope. They made Bronn master of coin... Bronn! Who didn't seem to understand loans even after Tyrion explained it to him. That is a slap in the face, you have to agree. But lets keep going for a bit. Sam became Grand Maester on the small council of King Bran, Sam got the job in weeks where it takes centuries of dedication and actual training to become Grand Maester and all Sam did was visit, do something forbidden and then he robbed the Citadel on his way out. The Dothraki were wiped out during the battle for Winterfell but somehow respawned the next episode to raid King's Landing. Then Jon Snow killed Khaleesi, right? So what does that make him? A Dothraki khalasar. The Unsullied are going to Naath but what about Naath's butterfly disease. Varys send letters to every corner of the kingdom before his death, didn't lead to anything. How did the Night King have chains ready and waiting for Viserion. Why was the Night King after Bran. What happened to Daario Naharis. What happened to the Iron bank. I can keep going if you want me to

[@jacksparrow9227]

Again, still the first century of Targaryen rule

[@PandaCultivation]

The tv show is the final product - GRRM probably... Long Night 2.0 Wen?

[@100nistudio4]

Hindi dubbed please 🥺

[@F83.M4]

This guy says the same thing in every interview

[@rinmartell2678]

That’s how most interviews work. Reports ask the same questions over and over again and George answers as always.

[@Hero_Of_Old]

Because they ask the same questions

[@jacksparrow9227]

Definitely sounds like the actors, writers, and show runners think the show is political

[@ibeg1951]

We need wow Asap Audience is waiting patiently for 12 years now

[@austincaucci]

I hope to eventually have the ending of the books but I really don’t think we’ll get them.

[@animethronesfandom]

"There's always the flip side of that is where suddenly you're seeing a scene and saying, 'What the hell have they done here? That's not how it's supposed to go. My character would never do that. My character would never say that. And that can be frustrating." I wonder who he is talking about? Maybe Jaime, Stannis or Dany?

[@shara-v6074]

I don't know about George but as a book fan, I say that about almost everyone...

[@Bishey]

"My character would never say that" That screams Jaime to me. You know, the whole famous "I never cared about the innocent" and "Everything I do is for Cersei" quotes. I'm paraphrasing but he said similar stuff in the last 3 seasons, which seems to be completely the opposite of Jaime in the books...

[@shara-v6074]

She's a minor character but Ellaria Sand was literally the polar opposite of her book character. Her one big character moment in the books was the beautiful speech about the cycle of vengeance and how futile it is... She "avenged" Oberyn by killing an innocent girl and then proceeded to kill Oberyn's brother and nephew when he died seeking vengeance for the death of his sister and niece and nephew... Adaptation fails, writing fails, basic logic fails, it all comes together so beautifully with show!Ellaria.

[@dylanporter1550]

Or Jon or Sansa or any character at all

[@rinmartell2678]

All of them! Especially, Tyrion was an idiot in season 7 and 8. He is the reason Danny lost a big part of her army and a dragon in the first place. Tyrion totally lost his intelligence after season 6.

[@jacksparrow9227]

Definitely shade when he was talking about the characters being his children

[@bionborg]

Where is Winds of Winter?

[@lucasadam65]

In your heart lol

[@AWSVids]

@@lucasadam65 The real Winds of Winter was the whingers we made along the way.

[@dreamfyres]

He’s still writing it

[@oli.y]

Even if he's done writing it, I doubt he'll release it while he's alive.

[@constantinetranos2225]

He started to finishing some storylines...He finished Tyrion and he is about to finish another two character arcs ( he didn't name them)

[@kamabokogonpachiro6099]

In game of thrones drogon was big but only 1 year old. I hope these other dragons will be way bigger than him