Gamers Are Getting Dumber, Study Finds

Study: quanticfoundry.com/2024/05/21...
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[@Bandit2033]

Rather than "Gamers are getting dumber", "More dumb people are getting into gaming" seems more apt.

[@mrfreeman2911]

Bingo

[@asjsjsienxjsks673]

I would agree and disagree with this. While what you say is true, the developers also have to cater to dumb gamers more which eventually makes everyone dumber in the process. Take a game like StarCraft 2. When it came out it was huge. Do you think an RTS could ever be big again with that level of complexity

[@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070]

Understandable, but you know how prevalent and possible brainrot is. There may have been a large collective hit taken by all of us who knows. Especially for gamers who have been out of school for a ling time

[@spacemonkeyentertainment6413]

@@asjsjsienxjsks673 There's always more niche experiences out there. I recently got into EU4, basically excel sheet simulator with a pretty (yet messy) UI, and even that is decently well known. Eventually demographics get displaced to accomodate the biggest possible market share, that is true, but the nerd demos are still out there doing their thing and i don't see that going away.

[@mellowstrangler]

Well this might also be true, but the population is getting dumber. We can see this for example from PISA test scores that have been declining dramatically over the years. OECD countries scores have been declining from 2012 by around 10 to 20 points in maths, reading and science. So young people are getting dumber in those areas, which correlates with the conclusions presented in this study shown in the video. I can also add in my own anecdote as I teach at a university. The exam scores have been declining as well. Students have way more issues and are mentally exhausted already at the beginning of the first year semester, even before they begin their studies. They have a rough time keeping up with any lectures. Some students can't sit still 10 minutes without taking out their smart phones in class. They have trouble with time limits and deadlines. They feel overwhelmed. Funny thing is that we have had to make our curriculum easier and more streamlined than ever before, but the students are still struggling. They still feel that they are overwhelmed even though they have less activities and less to do in regards of their studies than before. Now I've asked myself, why students 6 or 7 years ago didn't have these problems to such degree? And I do blame the social media. They indeed are overloaded, but not because of studies. They are overloaded already before beginning their studies.

[@Centinym]

Don't think this takes into account the rise of mobile gaming and mass appeal of a previously niche hobby

[@nicholasrova3698]

Was gonna say the same thing. Gamers now includes normies en masse.

[@drewdj45]

yes exactly, I don’t think gamers are becoming less intelligent. The pool of what constitutes "gamers" has obviously been greatly diluted because there are simply more gamers than there have ever been.

[@aliquidgaming1068]

My thoughts exactly

[@brianestrada1993]

They are including Normies and mobile game players so this isn't very accurate.

[@christopherdsuza7531]

To be fair I do think games have been dumbed down. The majority of gamers avoid things like path of exile favor of something more simplistic like diablo. Even diablo was dumbed down from D2. Guild war 2 was dumbed down from 1 and the tutorial process is more lengthy and extensive then what it was in the past. I think gamers have been dumbed down to some extent but ya the mobile crowd are another animal entirely with how simplistic their games are. Hell I've heard some argue that they like and want more automated gaming...

[@ShaunRF]

Gaming has gotten more mainstream. Its not just for nerds anymore, it is for general audiences. So this is to be expected.

[@r.8902]

i was just about to say this same thing. not to say nerds arent their own brand of dumb but whenever anything tries to reach for the general audience, it gets put on a simple level to attract just about anyone. its not just games. books are becoming victims to the same stupidfication as movies, shows, and other forms of media.

[@UnwrittenNoise]

@@r.8902Do you really think that books are becoming more mainstream nowadays?

[@kyokaioken5552]

@@r.8902 The stupefaction of media has reached an all-time low, and I think it will only get worse!

[@LuckyBide]

I keep saying it. Since the casuals entered gaming since the PS3/360 generation, it slowly but surely went downhill. Gaming should have never became mainstream. And it happened for many other media and form of art as well. When the general audience starts getting interested into something, it's the beginning of the end and that something will never be as great as it used to be.

[@debianlasmana8794]

@@LuckyBide and its boosted by mobile gaming..

[@The-Owl-Bard]

I think the issue is two fold: making a game "dumber" so it appeals to more people but also the average gamer not wanting to invest all their time into a single game.

[@r.8902]

maybe im one of the dumb ones because i dont actually mind a dumb, handholding game because i work a very mentally taxing job and sometimes games that make me have to plan too much overwhelms me. im still not done with bg3 because of how much i have to think through my choices lol so im the prime target for these companies

[@elmhurstenglish5938]

And the reality is there was no such thing as the average gamer back in the day. It was a shunned hobby and not socially 'ok'. Games were made and played by the same type of people...ergo those making games target audience was themselves, effectively.

[@thomgizziz]

@@r.8902 I have just gotten tired of trying to sus out the hidden numbers behind the curtain of games. It takes a bunch of time and isn't that rewarding. I could still do it but it just isn't worth it anymore.

[@TearThatRedFlagDown]

@@elmhurstenglish5938 You still have a lot of those types of devs in the indie market though, but I don't think most AAA devs are gamers themselves.

[@xxJing]

This is literally just because more casual people have gotten into gaming. The serious ones still pull out the spreadsheets and plan meticulously.

[@andrewmoluf4299]

can't like this one enough, there's just way more gamers

[@asteropax6469]

While I was playing No Man’s Sky, I kept a notebook of coordinates for the various settlements on planets I visited. I know I’m not the only one who has done something like that.

[@DarknessInferno15]

I still play turn based games and stuff to this day. My favorite. Love the strategic approach.

[@DreamBeatle]

Yeah, I think that makes the most sense out of anything. Gaming has just become way more mainstream and more generalized. The number of people playing Minecraft and Fortnite alone can tell you that.

[@ryanvacation7319]

Agree. I don't question the findings, but I believe that as gaming becomes more mainstream and attracts a larger audience, it inevitably includes more normies and stupid people.

[@tamagoh4839]

when some games best sell point is "YOU DON'T NEED TO PLAY IT, IT PLAYS AUTOMATICALLY" you know what's coming.

[@la8ball]

My question is at what point does a game become a movie? If the game is 80% automatically and you just getting to the next scene, would that be considered a movie now?

[@WolfRaven-jm1cm]

​@@la8ballThey already have games like that and they have existed since the 80s.

[@phrike7588]

Indeed. When it comes to mobile MMORPG with the option to auto/idle the concept is "pay money so you can get strong enough to tank everything." Strategy and skill is not an option. In fact, it's often purposely combatted and prohibited by design.

[@UnflushedTurd]

Think Disneyworld. You step in the gates and it's like "Ok, Entertain my ass". You buckle in the rides, the trains take you on a journey, the guides explain everything in colorful detail then you eat, burp and go home. There is more money into entertaining the general masses than to challenge intellectuals.

[@mastershake1071]

​@@la8ballever seen detroit: become human or until dawn?

[@jmw1500]

Plausible theories: - Decreasing quality in "strategy" games - Decrease in intelligence, that we also saw in SAT's before they were redesigned to be based on effort - Demographic change over the last decade as games have become a more popular pastime

[@firestargaming9521]

Did we really change the nature of SATs to cater for the rise of dumbasses? This seem wrong

[@FallenNomad]

This would explain why all new games bore me. I grew up cutting my teeth on point and click masterpieces like Myst and Monkey Island. Then graduated into tactical and team based strategy games. My bud is always sending me new games to try but I end up not interested or bored. “So I run around spamming 4 buttons on groups of random enemies and grind for better gear so I can spam the same 4 buttons on harder enemies. Then in the end I can spam those 4 buttons on the big boss and flex to everyone that I’m the best…” Yeah, sounds super fun.

[@sigh1685]

I think it's because "gamers" have become mainstream. Back in the day "gamers" were nerds and geeks that would read a 10 page booklet of instructions just to plug in the PSX to the TV.

[@mkv2718]

I literally learned to read because of Nintendo Power 😂

[@jester_24-78]

Ngl i think this is largely do to COD and fortnite everyone is braindead just dropping in repeatedly rather than group team games involving strategies

[@wille84fin]

I learned English language before going to school because of games. From the early NES/SNES/PC-games.@@mkv2718

[@orlock20]

Also those that play Candy Crush are technically gamers.

[@windwalker000]

THIS.

[@jojo2267]

Ubisoft is single handedly responsible for bringing down the IQ of gamers by at least 20 points.

[@tiestofalljays]

Based on their subreddit, I'd say closer to 60pts.

[@TheMusicolophile]

Not for us folks who understand you can customize your HUD and eliminate the clutter in every single one of their games.

[@BBSleepIn]

​@@TheMusicolophilewent straight over your head. Thats pretty telling.

[@DanteVerde-pt9zc]

@@TheMusicolophile Ooh ouch outing yourself already eh?

[@diegokaqui60]

If you buy any assassin's Creed game after black flag you are not cognitive enough to vote.

[@Yarzu555]

It comes from more people getting into games, and games trying to appeal to more types of players. It's less that people are changing, and more different types are coming into the mix. One of my favorite series is the Fire Emblem series, and some of the most popular titles in recent times really drop the ball when it comes to gameplay, while the gameplay focused games get a lot of crap for non-gameplay stuff while ignoring the game stuff.

[@thomgizziz]

Yeah stuff and things and crap... you know? Heh huh...

[@TheAether666]

If you want a great Fire Emblem game to play, Berwick Saga and Vestaria Saga are waiting for you.

[@chloemarzipan6770]

I love Fire emblem. Been a fan since path of radiance.

[@krisztiankohut3241]

New fire emblem is sooo much fun, all the strategy you need... by strategy i mean buy better lootboxes, better lootboxes>>>better heroes, better heroes>>>you win

[@123christianac]

@@krisztiankohut3241 You do know that only Heroes is based around gacha gameplay.

[@daftpunk89]

Its funny, as I've gotten older (I'm 34) I felt the need to stimulate my brain more when gaming and as a result I've gotten into playing Real Time and Turn Based Strategy games recently. I want to feel like I'm playing a GAME, not watching a movie.

[@bobbyevans8136]

36 here and I've been the same way. I've played way more turned based strategy games and I'm loving it. Anyone wanting to give ones they've played that I should check out is much appreciated.

[@MoreEvilThanYahweh]

The strategy players never went away, they're just massively outnumbered by relative newcomers and the "wider audience". For comparison, there were 200 million internet users in the year 2000 as opposed to two billion or so today. How shocking that more complex games seemed to have more popularity back when the barrier to entry for PC gaming was much higher! Hell, this also applies to internet culture getting worse as well.

[@Vi0ar]

This is exactly it. It's not that gamers are getting dumber, it's that it's getting more a wider audience. Paradox Civ6, etc games are more popular than ever. RTS games aren't popular because the best rts game currently is SC2 and it's a 14 year old game. The fact that a game hasn't out done SC2 in 14 years is pretty much the reason the genre is dead. Every rts game I have played after sc2 has felt clunky and unplayable. Blizzard has stop producing them because candy crush makes 1000x the money with .000000001% of the effort.

[@wretchedsoullikemine]

@@Vi0ar SC2 is dead because it's not actually that strategic, it's mechanical af and driven by micro gameplay very heavily, tilting the rewards in game towards highly mechanical players over strategic players. If you don't have 60 APM in starcraft you're literally handicapped. But if you go to a MOBA like league your mechanics and APM are not as heavily weighted as your ability to analyze the meta, builds and team comps, positioning, etc etc. The fact that MOBAs are more rewarding to strategic thinking than RTS is why RTS is dying.

[@liaminwales]

Back in the 90's and early 2000's computers where hard to use, today a kid's can use a phone before they talk. The audience of people playing games has changed in a massive way.

[@ValtheJean]

The same thing happened to DnD. As soon as it became a normie thing to enjoy, DnD editions got dumber and dumber. I legitimately can't stand 5e. And every time I try to get people to try an earlier edition, or Pathfinder, they always complain "it's too mathy." smh

[@msihcs8171]

​@@liaminwales Sometimes I forget that I was lucky that my family always had a computer from about '96 on (I was born in '87) I saved up money for years and bought my first when I was 13. I greatly miss the old "wild west" internet that was then. Just like games, normies ruin everything, popularity is a poison. I miss the old Zork games . . .

[@00ABBITT00]

No sh!t. The modern gamer is dumb, impatient and easily distracted. Easy to farm, too.

[@randybobandy9828]

Well when modern game journalists want easy mode in every game so they can beat it for their review it shows the direction gaming is going. More casual gamers who just want the "experience" vs wanting a challenge.

[@AzizTheGazele552]

Nah its just the shares changed obv, as u see in the trend line, from 2019, which was covid, it went down faster, that shows that its because more and more casual gamers come into the hobby. Also ofc people who play for 1-2 hours a day will be impatient and play games playable on these time frames. U think ure smarter than the modern gamer, I say its just that they spend their time differently and dont have as much play time as u

[@IncognitoActivado]

Mostly du. mb.

[@Outofrealman]

I am always dumb founded in gaming discords where someone will say "this is too difficulty" then proceed to say they died 5 times, 8 times. Like what the fuck you are ask for help saying it is soooo difficult when you barely TRIED???? They will die 15 times and call something literally impossible. That is not even 30 min like come the fuck on...

[@el3ndir97]

Its because younger generation are weakminded losers This can be seen is WoW for example people back in day where chads now they are furries wanting more cute glamours These same people cry on forums etc. "Game too hard"

[@Gunthrek]

I think this study ignores something a little more basic: strategy games require quite a bit of patience to play. As someone who grew up in the 90's and played all the original Warcraft games, Warcraft 3 was my last RTS. Eve Online and then obviously World of Warcraft were simply too engaging to go back to spending 45 minutes plus getting through a single stage. Just as it takes a certain type of person to seriously get into chess, it takes a certain kind of person to seriously engage with an RTS game. As someone who has been extremely impatient my entire life, I can provide my anecdotal experience that RTS games always had a limited shelf life. I'm sure social media plays a role, but the reality is that people will choose what they want if provided an option, and we have more options available today than ever before.

[@kenji214245]

I mean this one focused on RTS games but there is a heap of studies and Meta studies coming out on the effects on the brain from gaming. Several has shown signs that repetitive and quick dopamine focused games can literally make you dumber. Example games that i have seen mentioned where CoD, CS, Candy Crush and Cookie hero. Some of the research is based on previous studies looking into other hobbies and daily activities that are highly repetitive as well. Hell even working in some patterns has the effect just not as fast as the gaming one apparently can be if you play the wrong stuff too often.

[@Gunthrek]

@@kenji214245 Oh, I don't think anyone can seriously dispute that modern games and social media contribute significantly to brain rot, but like many points being made about many things, the focus tends to go in the wrong place. RTS was already something that would have gone away once more options became available regardless of social media because it just took too long to get anywhere with it. Only the more hardcore gamers really delved deeply into it.

[@idnintel]

@@Gunthrek I recommend alpha centauri with the thinker mod

[@elmhurstenglish5938]

I thought the study was referring to strategic games, not RTS specifically. Everyone is just assuming that. Turn-based strategy would fall into it: X-COM, Civ, Total War, etc. You can take your time with these, and in some ways are therefore more like the pace of Chess than RTS.

[@thomgizziz]

Do you think that RTS games are the only strategic games???

[@LuckyBide]

Big publishers also push this. They don't want consumers who will keep asking for more complexity and new gameplay features in their games because this will make development longer and more expensive. They prefer to have a dumb audience who will keep buying games without year after year without complaining about who it's always the same recycled stuff and more importantly who will keep paying for microtransactions.

[@tylerbreau4544]

I think it's also worth noting that complex games have a smaller target audience. The random casual who plays 2-4 hours a week probably doesn't like multiplier games like starcraft 2 or Age of Empires. When it comes to things like civ6, stellaris, and total war, those games take a lot of time. Especially when it comes to 4x games, many small things will cause big ripples later on - It's hard to understand how to get better for this reason. The companies want flashy, jump-in-and-out, mtx-friendly games.

[@LittleBallOfPurr]

Or, dumb people are doing the now popular thing, gaming. Gaming used to attract a certain type of people, now it attracts nearly everyone.

[@TheGooseIsLoose9000]

This

[@aziouss2863]

Fifa and cod players are mainstream where i grew up. Some of the them were the most "special" specimen of human you can find.

[@Triforcebro]

no, its social media training people over years to want instant gratification.

[@kevinseraphin5456]

20 years ago maybe, but this graph start at 2016, you're not gonna convince me the idiots only started playing games in the last 8 years, especialy in such a large amount of them it impacted the graph THAT much...

[@ninjacreeper541]

All I'm saying is sports games folk are not my crowd at all.

[@matthewsteele99]

explains why the RTS genre became less popular over time

[@mjshorty101]

RTS wasn't even supposed to be that hardcore 1v1 experience but a fun sandbox and light sim building game, not to mention mods hard carrying brood war and Warcraft 3 to this day EDIT: To all those saying they are, just check out GiantGrantGame's video on the playerbase for RTS, its 80%+ playing single-player, and a large fraction of multiplayer people doing mods+teamgames+co-op and 1% actually doing ranked.

[@warsharkproductions6550]

Man I miss that genre at the height of its popularity. Brood war, Dawn of war, command and conquer, supreme commander, starcraft.

[@sodenoite45]

@@mjshorty101 what u mean? rts as always hardcore pvp. comands and conquer , civilization , warcraft , starcraft etc

[@MrCandDproductions]

No hate for Starcraft, but it felt like they pushed out alot of old time RTS games. Supreme Commander 2 felt like it was trying to compete SC with its faster gameplay.

[@bikerboy3k]

@@sodenoite45 case and point

[@B_a_h]

I think it's also related to what a game used to be. In a prevideo game world, it was board games and card games. These slower paced games relied mainly on thinking and strategy. As games move closer to life simulation, it becomes more about thinking speed, reflexes, timing, ect.

[@ethrsag735]

I started gaming with strategy and tactical games and it's broken my heart how few new good ones come our these days.

[@professeursativa416]

You could try paradox interactive, its a serious company for serious people who like history and deep strategies. Tbh its my goal since games become more mainstream.

[@Ezekiel_the_roach]

As a JRPG fan its crazy how people's critcism of the more strategic games are how they are less engaging. However they're likely to word it as "they're boring." However, what they fail to realize is that many of them choose to opt for a copy past fps or a glorified cookie clicker action rpg. These games are arguably less ingaging in reality depending on what they choose to play.

[@TheJofurr]

I can't imagine why games would attract an idiotic audience when they have glowing trails telling you exactly where to go and the puzzle solutions are written on the walls when you get there.

[@dims4627]

and the main protagonist saying ABSOLUTELY FUCKING EVERYTHING OUT LOUD omg

[@gino14]

@@dims4627 Nobody: Literally Nobody at all: Aloy: *I SHOULD CHECK OUT THOSE RUINS*

[@Triumvirately]

Probably because the industry is over saturated with watered down game mechanics that don’t require you to be good

[@raspvidy]

This all thanks to consoles.

[@PsionicB]

I love when I'm playing a game and I'm trying to figure out a puzzle and the characters just straight out tell you how to solve it.

[@azzy9293]

​@@raspvidy how?

[@atcera8714]

I mean, what are the good strategy games available right now? Nintendo exclusives, pay to win models, Aoe2, WHAT ARE THESE KIDS SUPPOSED TO PLAY?

[@Tiasung]

@@azzy9293 Consoles are generally made for more ''plug-and play'' experiences, which is the opposite of more complex and strategic experiences. Also, you kind of need a mouse for more complex games..

[@dingojones]

Gamers aren’t getting dumber. The customer base has dramatically changed. “Gamers” don’t want games anymore. They want movies with occasional quick time events.

[@VetBodGaming]

This explain why all of my teammates in CoD have no idea how to properly play.

[@SirCowdog]

I would say that this is less true. And rather that it's that the pool of gamers has become so much larger than the types of people that used to be interested in gaming. It's mainstream. A larger audience.

[@taylon5200]

Yup. Normies inserted themselves into our space, and collectively reduced the overall iq

[@drewdj45]

BINGO! The pool of what constitutes "gamers" has obviously been greatly diluted because there are simply more gamers than there have ever been.

[@thehatter9400]

Larger pool means more dumb people in it. However i have noticed that in my personal experience, my cognitive ability has decreased, perhaps this is just from shitty food, lack of sleep, stress and lots of headaches

[@CeresOutpost]

Also, and this is a lesson the Helldivers 2 devs are learning right now, some of us JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN when we get home from school/work. We're already being worked to death, we don't need more of it in every game. I play a lot of MMORPGs, so I don't mind "work" sometimes, but a lot of times, I hop into a game like Helldivers to blow off steam.

[@pepeepupoo]

I agree with this. Back when gamers were exclusively sweaty men, strategy was much more prevalent. Now, it's a bunch of weirdo's playing candy crush or fruit ninja.

[@shroomer3867]

Another factor is that strategy companies also tend to milk their fanbase like crazy. I used to play Stellaris and Civ like no tomorrow, now that they have gone absolutely insane with the DLCs I no longer buy anything from them just based on their anti-consumer practices of releasing mediocre DLC and staying afloat with decent DLC once every 3 mediocre ones to keep engagement. The price of their DLC is almost 5x-7x the actual game price and they offer very little in terms of gameplay. It's the same reason I quit WoW, expansion after expansion was lackluster and felt incomplete and just milked you based on FOMO. Nowadays I just pop in my Factorio save and continue on from there at the very least that game doesn't have egregious DLC which doesn't add anything except a few dialog text boxes with 12 art pieces and maybe a few 3D models if you get lucky.

[@maltardraco9555]

The factory must grow!

[@Talderas]

@@maltardraco9555 The factory must grow... until you hit 1 fps.

[@jmw1500]

Then you use mods to compress the factory blueprint down to reasonable fps. The factory must grow.

[@adam.maqavoy]

Well *RTS and Strategy Games* have Been in a long decline since SC2 Release. And yeah they love to milk us with Microtransaction as well DLC Shenaniry.

[@Guzzlerinos]

thats not the strategy that was used in this study. the study was for what aspects people like in games, strategy as a pillar has declined in popularity.

[@muffaloswolja8654]

I’m not sure if it’s that people are less interested in strategy. I think it’s the way strategy has been implemented that people have gotten tired of. In my opinion the best way for strategy to thrive is when you give the player enough tools and control to creatively execute and express that strategy. Best examples of this I think are games like Skate, Sunset Overdrive, BOTW/TOTK, or Dishonored.

[@kenji214245]

Did some reading on this stuff when i studied for game dev. Repetitive gaming like Candy crush, Call of duty and in general quick decision games with little to no effort in letting the gamer do problem solving or think trough their decisions have shown clear signs of degrading the players ability to think creatively and rationally since the brain is being designed to rely more on fast neuron connections in repetitive patterns and heightened aggressive mental states. some studies even looked at brain scans for this. Its not just gaming though the research had previously looked into working patterns and other hobbies and the more repetitive and predictive the worse it was for the brain.

[@smeegy1]

Modern Gamer Brain is a REAL thing. I grew up in the 90s and used to take notes while gaming. I'll bash my head against a puzzle for HOURS before resorting to using a guide. If my brother who grew up in the early 2000s doesn't solve a puzzle within maybe 30s he's looking it up.

[@felixmustermann790]

different approach and ressources to a problem, for you it was harder to find a guide, for your brother a google search; you like puzzles, he doesnt and wants to keep playing the part of the game that he enjoys... so how exactly is your point holding up so far ?

[@smeegy1]

@@felixmustermann790 Finding a guide was never hard. I just had to ask my friend's older brother. And this was the 90s. The internet DID exist, albeit dialup. I was familiar with message boards and IRC even from a young age. Finding the information was never hard. It's really just that modern gamers expect to be handheld all the time. What's the FIRST praise you always hear about new FromSoft games? That they are like the old games that didn't tell you literally everything you had to do every moment. If you're just gonna look up a guide at the first sign of difficulty, just read a fucking book. You clearly care more about the story than the gameplay.

[@JT-rb9wf]

@@felixmustermann790 But that is the point. They do not enjoy puzzles or strategic approaches anymore.

[@MahalGC]

I grew up in the 2000s, and I always hated using guides on single player games because it takes the fun out of the game, but if a bit of the game seemed poorly designed I gave the guides a go. It also frustrates me that certain friends I have will go to guides at the slightest bit of challenge because "I don't want to waste my free time on this when the correct answer is right there"

[@glikorgo]

​@@smeegy1Why you hating on us story enjoyers? I dont know of a video game thats also made into a book, so only place i can enjoy those storiea is the games itselt. Also games have visuals. I enjoy RPGs with different choices and consuqenses. So tons of reasons to prefer video games to books.

[@part-timedebiru9681]

This is not surprising to me at all, the amount of new players that expect to be spoonfed even the simplest of answers instead of figuring it out themselves is appalling

[@thefirstloser]

Years ago I could play Stellaris, Civilization and Total War: Warhammer with my friends. Now? Only PUBG, Warzone and League of Legends ARAM.

[@karpparino]

@@thefirstloser So true about LOL ARAM hahaha. Before we played clashes and ranked flex and tried to think on our comps and plays. Now that we are adults, it is only ARAM or ARENA

[@darugdawg2453]

Baldurs gate. This game was very popular. Its strategy.

[@The86Ripper]

You are thinking too hard. Gaming studios dont want you to think too much because that way you are enjoying the game without swiping. They just want you to swipe. Let me elaborate. Normal game time that you spent inside a game without swiping is dead time to them and unwelcome. They want to have easily digestible swiping so that you dont waste their time just playing the game without constantly paying.

[@tommyfanzfloppydisk]

@@thefirstloser i played a lot of league, especially arams, and my feeling is : game and items got gugugaga and majority of recent years players can't figure it out anyway.

[@Debate_everything]

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying when it comes to just trying to remove the clutter and just play and enjoy the game. I think a lot of people these days now. Don’t even try to figure out or discover the enjoyment of a game for themselves anymore. They just go online and look up how to videos for new games or they get stuck. They go online and look up information of how to solve their problem. I grew up in a time we’re gaming was all about figuring it out by yourself. The only thing that you might be able to do is buy the Companion book from the game store for $25 but I always enjoy just figuring everything out. The game is so much better when you do.

[@jrockz133t]

I'm not surprised. I rarely look up guides, builds in games, or even the current meta. I usually look at patch notes and create my own builds. I know I'm not the majority, I hear people all the time saying things like, "why aren't you using the meta" or "you should use this content creators build"

Everybody is a gamer now. What the study actually says is that people in general are dumber.

[@sebd9690]

Yeah, my first instinctive answer was the democratization of video games as well.

[@Rellikan]

Average IQ has been rising since WWII, except it started dropping around 2017. The US government conducts yearly IQ studies of the population. IQ has been dropping since 7 or 8 years ago.

[@FeralKobold]

It's not even saying that they're dumber, it's just saying it's becoming less of a motivation. As more casual people get into gaming obviously most of them are not going to want to sit down and play something like stellaris. They're playing candy crush, cod, fortnite, fall guys etc. And none of those things are inherently worse or more stupid, but they're playing for a different reason. The study is literally about their *motivation* to play, obviously as gaming became more mainstream those motivations across the community as a whole has shifted. It just had an inflammatory title

[@matthewbentley1236]

That's partially true, but it's also worth thinking about who gamers were before it was mainstream - mostly mega nerds that love detailed stats and the like.

[@LtCommanderTato]

@@Rellikan You cant expect good score when your education system is all about gender studies...

[@ascendedsleeper5693]

I mean... the target audience for most games went from nerds to ADHD kids.

[@UnflushedTurd]

ADHD streamers as well. They use that superpower to blather on a million miles an hour to hold attention for hours.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

Your Profile picture tells the story, just compare Morrowind with Skyrim. In Morrowind you had to orientate yourself, read descriptions in Skyrim you run to the Questmarker. Also Morrowinds storytelling was much more nuanced than Skyrim imo. But to blame is society that wants to breed consumers, neoliberalism caused this mindrot, also caused wokeism to sprout down the line.

[@ascendedsleeper5693]

@@DontKnow-hr5my Most media creators these days would rather create a non-offensive vanilla experience rather than make something unique and challenging. It's why games like BG3 and Elden Ring were so massively popular.

[@frostguard1283]

​@@ascendedsleeper5693Ah Morrowind, still have the guide for that game with note sheets in it. Good times...

[@TheWontonFreak]

I have ADHD and grew up with Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge as one of my favorite childhood games. Today (at 31yrs) I don't touch anything meta like Val, arena shooters or the drop-in shrinking circle games. I mostly play Grand RTS, Survival and factory games like factorio

[@HeLLa33]

I've seen this trend too. There's a lot of factors as to why and yes gamers are affected as consequence too, younger folk especially. Breaks my heart.

[@simple3794]

Maybe its just a specific type of player. But, I have just recently been playing Terraria a lot and the most fun part of the entire game is trying to find new items that can be combined, as well as googling and looking on the wiki for the best possible solutions and gear combo's I can have. Then being a Mage class on top of that means managing mana. I realize I tend to play the classes in games that are harder, and require a lot of management but extremely rewarding.

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

And as usual, Asmon completely misses the point. It's not quantifying intelligence, it's quantifying motivation. If I force you to play basketball for example, for 12 hours a day every day, you would eventually get bored of it. The motivation graph would plummet, doesn't mean they're getting lazier, it just means they're sick of playing basketball.

[@benw5545]

I am surprised how far down the comments I had to read until I found somebody that mentioned this. The article was about a poll for what motivated gamers to play or what they value in a game. Strategy, according to this poll, has decreased considerably as a value. That does not necessarily mean gamers are less intelligent, it could be that gamers are more lazy. I think the implication of this article is more about instant gratification seeking than a decline in intelligence.

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

@@benw5545 Yeah exactly, it's more about attention span. But to be honest, after looking at it, they don't provide enough evidence to back that up. For all we know the number of strategy gamers has stayed the same, but there are just more gamers now than we had back then, and so the averages look like they're going down. There are so many variables not controlled in the article that you can pretty much take the data and say anything you want with it. As for how far you had to scroll down, unfortunately a large percentage of Asmons viewers are either doomers or parasocial weirdos, and so criticism is very rare on these types of videos.

[@Shizlgizl]

THANK YOU! How do you call others stupid as you blindly follow a man completely misinterpreting the results (or making insane leaps of logic)? Roguelikes and RPGs provide more/quicker dopamine hits than strategy games. Other genres cannibalizing motivation/attention is one of hundreds of reasons people might not be motivated to engage with strategy.

[@sycariummoonshine7134]

People who don't value strategy generally don't get off it, likely can't handle it/do it. If you actually enjoyed decision making you'd be playing these games. As for motivation well, the reason sc2 and other rts games are on the decline is because they are too hard for people to get into at this point. It's motivation meets difficulty. ​@@benw5545

[@sycariummoonshine7134]

People gravely over estimate quicker dopamine as some kinda God dictating what people can enjoy. There's hundreds of different kinds of dopamine effects, and it's all based on what the game gives you. Every game gives a different thing and most people gravitate towards a sweet spot of a "good game" meets "addicting dopamine flow". This is why no gamer plays candy crush saga despite it being a high instant dopamine game. Depth matters. But guess strategy games give too little of even what they themselves provide. They are generally not good games, beyond like a certain slow mood and desire to waste 20 hours on a single run. What separates these games from another is atmosphere, greatly. Wc3 is highly immersive so people still play it, darkest dungeon is very cool.

[@pant104]

Don't need a study. Just need to see latest Assassin's Greed sales.

[@cecilarthur3579]

People are getting gullible :(

[@dims4627]

exactly, it's my guilty pleasure and tradition each year. I go and look how many preorders there were for another AC or CoD and feel better about myself

[@raspvidy]

Dude Elden ring has lock on targeting. That's called aim botting when I was growing up. Modern gaming is just streamlined now. Helldivers 2 doesn't even have a jump. This is the real problem with modern gaming.

[@dannymitchell6131]

Every Souls game has had lock on. Hell Ocarina of Time had it too. Lock on in an RPG is radically different than aim bot in an FPS game. There's a point to be made here, I just think this was a bad example.

[@saurabh4721]

true

[@mkspind3l]

"imma read this whole thing" proceeds to skimm and skip most of it and comes up with an opinion based on a partial read I think the article describes him perfectly

[@MichikoHoshi]

On one hand, I still play RTS and 4x games because I like games that makes me think. On the other hand, if I run into a puzzle on warframe or an a mmo, I am pulling out the wikipedia for the guide because I just see it as an obstacle in my gameplay. When puzzle and thinking present itself in MMO, it makes me feel like I am just losing time more than. "Wow, what a well crafted puzzle."

[@Laireso]

That's not you being dumb my friend. The puzzles in Warframe are so poorly explained and what to do is so vague you might spend 30 minutes just running around confused until you randomly do the thing it wants you to do. The dialogue nor the visuals have any indication on what you're supposed to do or give you clues to work off of, at least in places like Lua spy mission. Puzzles are fun if they're presenting you with something to think about, not something to guess about.

[@soccerplayer922]

This is just a product of the audience being diluted with the average of population. It went from a niche interest to mainstream.

[@abject_fail]

Interesting point!

[@midwestmind691]

This. The internet over all got dumber when internet phones became affordable to more of the population. Back in the day you had to have disposable income for a computer and internet connection. Reddit is a good example of this downfall.

[@Sahone]

yeah and we can see this with the curve which drops even more after 2020 (covid) to start to slow down around 2022 (and if we only look at the points and not the curve, it is rather a clear rise)

[@pizzaman11]

Yah if you look at games that are “more strategic”. Turn based, military sim, sandbox, city builder, etc. the audience has actually grown. Rts games fell out of favor because they weren’t the big money makers and were aimed toward super niche competitive audience. Manor lords prove they’re still popular, just not as much as other genres.

[@JT-rb9wf]

@@Sahone Oh I thought this was a closed, static group of people for the study?

[@johnthomas4868]

It isn’t just gamers, my friends. We went from teaching classical literature and calculus in high schools in the 70s to a curriculum focused on ideology and utter nonsense. It takes time for a culture to go all Idiocracy, but we’re seeing it happen in real-time.

[@courtneycherry5582]

The books got banned remember , plus it's all hand holding. I'm sick of yellow paint and farming games. Not everything has to be Minecraft.

[@JarrydTIme]

I teach religion at a catholic school, and know about the classics and what a classical liberal arts education entailed. These kids shit on anything that isn't necessary for them to get their perceived job, even tho I do venture into philosophy, history, language, and other arts to liberate the mind.

[@xLuis89x]

​@@courtneycherry5582the funny part is that Minecraft doesn't hold your hand, and it isn't braindead

[@xLuis89x]

​@@JarrydTImenot really, the current education model is more like indoctrination camps than what a school used to be. Do you think people are making fun of the old subjects? No , they are making fun and criticizing the current "liberal arts" bs which is critical race theory, trans history and gender studies (among others)

[@courtneycherry5582]

@@xLuis89x I'm just tired of collecting infinite stuff and building a base it's all the same game.

[@RenegadeElite101]

Another reason why this is the case is the simple rise in low thought games. Games from 20 years ago didn’t have as much online options as they do now, single player story games was the main name of the game, it inspired strategic thinking and expanded vocabulary’s ; however, the rise of mobile games and games like Fortnite really don’t provide much in the way of either. When I was younger and played I built up strats to play that made some tactical sense, which became building blocks to a much better understanding of it. Not because I had an innate ability to do so but because the games of that age challenged me to do it. Popular games for kids just don’t do it these days. I have nephews who are in their late teens who’ve played for most of their lives but don’t understand anything about strategic or out of the box thinking. It’s sad to see.

[@dravidpaiva686]

I think its more than just players who play startergy games than players who don't. Many gamers from my generation tend to pick up games that are trending only to put in 2-3 hrs and then move on to a new game thats trending. And many gamers who do commit to completing new games go on to wikis and other sites, for a detailed guide on how to win the game the fatsest instead of learning the game for themselves.

[@system11yt]

It's hardly surprising, younger people are growing up in a world designed to grab their attention for mere seconds at a time. And for those of us longer in years, the constant ever growing pile of incoming information and things that need our attention are equally damaging. I finish work each day absolutely fried.

[@felixmustermann790]

thats a skill issue if ive ever heard one

[@tharealestinhurr]

Exactly

[@system11yt]

@@felixmustermann790 You need to understand that I'm too tired to care even if it is.

[@L337LYC4N]

It's not just at work for me, I'm constantly exhausted unless I set time aside to specifically not do anything or just focus on one thing. Problem is, I don't have time for that sort of thing in my life currently, so crispy brain is here to stay for the duration. Best time to mentally unwind is at the gym with noise cancelling earbuds. Close out the world around you, only focus on moving the weight in your hands.

[@sunset7456]

After school I always feel exhausted and with a fried brain, but when I don't have to go to I feel just fine

[@new-bp6ix]

I have just finished zelda link to the past and Do you know what I've noticed? We haven't gotten dumber. We've just become more likely to give up easily. Nowadays, we look for quick and easy ways to get a dopamine boost. But in the old days, the main difference was that we didn't have as many simple options to get that dopamine rush like we do now. So, we were forced to tackle complex games in order to feel accomplished and get that dopamine hit.

[@tharealestinhurr]

Indeed

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

We are being bred as consumers, from school onwards, this neoliberal mindrot caused this, it also caused wokeism to sprout down the line

[@Efgand0894]

I noticed that too, but sometimes I need time off to think clearly

[@Wesmoen]

It's not different than learning an instrument. Most stop when it gets a little harder. When the rest continue and show persistence.

[@TheMr02drop]

This is definitely a problem too. We are so over stimulated these days that if you have to wait 5 minutes for something it's the end of the world for a lot of people.

[@justinhughes2441]

I also wanna say a huge factor would be the ever-increasing availability of walkthroughs and "meta" builds and other answers. Im sure most people just "look it up" instead of trying to figure most things out on their own

[@KirkWilliams300]

RIP RTS games, they turned us into strategic master minds back in their prime.

[@seguismundoxavier426]

Gamers are not sending their best anymore

[@PastorVivonZulul]

Gaming is now all about easy gameplay easy reward. I miss the days of the old MMO before wow, counter-strike, diablo 2. All those game were hard, long lasting. You have to really work to get the best gear or be the best.

[@Steve0C]

If only half the gamers had the work ethic to stick to finishing something like illegal immigrants.

[@PatrickRatman]

@@PastorVivonZulul games that require you to grind are the exact opposite of "strategic thinking". its literally just mindless grinding.

[@furyberserk]

​@@PastorVivonZulul You forgot the best have families now. No one is truly trying to exploit games anymore beyond external collisions

[@PastorVivonZulul]

@@PatrickRatman you have a lot of optimisation and math inside grinding game. But you are right in the most part since majority of grinding game can and are braindead. I prefer fps at high level where you need to feel and learn in real time the pace of the game. Competitive fps like cs is great at that. That made me learn how to control my emotional reaction and forced me to acknowledge how staying in an emotional state makes you weak and slower. Your brain simply doesn’t work. And majority of game are just there to make you waste time and get hook to easy dopamine. Gaming just isn’t the same anymore.

[@leobradley6222]

The standard deviation of 7.33 means that one standard deviation from the mean would be +- 7.33 years, ie 85%of gamers are between 17 and 32

[@johnercek]

so glad someone explained it

[@illliiiiillliii6265]

But the bigger question is what the hell was he calculating?

[@aaronfalcon3152]

@@illliiiiillliii6265 I think he was working out 7 standard deviations or something. Which would be somewhere in the 99.9% or something

[@kavinh10]

1 standard deviation is only 68%, 2 is 95, 3 is 99

[@Althissian]

This assumes normal distribution of ages. I suspect that this is not the case.

[@_terrorbilly]

I think it has to do with the fact that dominant strategy has been encouraged in games, and there's less impressive sims that involve thinking outside the box to overcome certain situations.

[@gokadoin7306]

This makes sense because of the massive amount of new gamers getting into the hobby. But also, playing a game with friends without strategy gets boring real quick. But no one from my group wants to play games with me that require a little bit of learning and maybe a few guides LOL.

[@gambles5029]

As an avid Paradox strategy game enjoyer, I can say for sure its very, very, very hard to convince friends to sit down and play a game without instant gratification that requires any long term planning.

[@MATCHLESS93]

The only way I could convince a buddy to play is glaze up GoT mod.

[@Apple_Apporu]

I never liked playing stellaris without having an op start. But I do love playing hoi4 and eu4

[@Kissamiess]

@@Apple_Apporu Of Paradox games I love Stellaris the most, but that's probably because I have a long history of playing space 4X games.

[@kaiserwilhelm8029]

I find HOI4 easier to play. For the fact that the late game doesn’t lag as much. I still love Stellaris especially with the giga structure mod, but the late(and sometimes the mid game) gets extremely laggy/slow.

[@gleipnirrr]

let me put it like this: a friend tried to get me into europa universalis and stellaris. he told me i just need to watch 12 hours of playthroughs rather than do the tutorial, which is very shit. i have 1-2 hours of time for myself per day. i just dont have time to wait for games like that to get good, or for me to get good at them.

[@erossenpai2884]

MMO player here. Gamers becoming dumber makes sense to me, who has heard "I have to *READ* the quest dialogue?????" WAAAAAAY too many times but not as a joke.

[@synestia4005]

The writing went downhill in any media, except books

[@Itsallsotiresome]

Part of that was the portion of the playerbase that didn't listen to reason and kept spoonfeeding the lazy people what to do. I used to play MMORPGs a lot, and I'd tell the spoonfeeders that they were just teaching the lazy people to never be able to figure things out on their own or at least find the information on their own. It's really not difficult to type key words of a situation into a search engine and press enter. It all fell on people with deaf ears and a mind's eye blind to perception who thought they were being the "good person" by helping them, that thought I was just being a jerk or "gatekeeper". Good intentions often pave the road to hell. What kept MMORPG communities decent was when the playerbase forced those lazy people to either learn to swim or drown figuratively. It all started going to sh!t when the spoonfeeders came along.

[@monalisa-bs4zs]

Or people who turn on a video game do not wish to read or even think. The more capable of a human i become over time the less serious i take any video games, they wont help me renovate my next house or figure out the most ideal next long term investment. Video games are just entertainment for grown ups, not the important groundbreaking medium kids, and sales and marketing teams, make them out to be.

[@darugdawg2453]

Tbh i hate chatter in games. A fuking paragraph for a quest with nothing but filler words. F no

[@archersterling6726]

Dude, most dialogue in MMOs are just basic cliche trash

[@JuneauGTW]

We also tend to think we can multitask, but there is a ton of research that shows that multitasking isn't a real thing. However, some people are better at rapidly switching activities. I imagine that strategic thinking is an activity that, by its very nature, is very difficult to do while focusing on other activities. It's like trying to read while someone is talking to you. You might do alright for a while, but eventually, you are going to lose your spot or forget what you just read.

[@Tyranno-Bore-Us]

This makes sense because I used to play so many real-time strategy games when I was younger and it's like they don't even make those.

[@RB-jf5ww]

I think the biggest problem is the definition of gamer. It used to be that only a small subset of people played games, but many of these organizations that poll and write articles include gamers that only play on the phone. I think it was like 56% of “gamers” only play on their phones. That’s not a gamer, that’s people who have smart phones and occupying their time. So by adding this portion of the population into the category of gamer, it is pulling down the intelligence average - but I think the same cross section of American society that used to play games and be identified as gamers are still here, it’s just we are a smaller section of the whole. I personally don’t consider phone game players, gamers.

[@bluefang62]

It doesn't help that a vast majority of mobile games are basically clicking sims or outright play themselves with minimum input from the "player".

[@Temperans]

They are gamers. What I do think is that it is not getting measured properly since those gamers more often than not are "super casual" or "kill time" gamers. Yet somehow the survey said only 20% are casual. It wouldn't surprise me if what they described as "core gamers" are mobile gamers, since from industry perspective mobile gamers are as big if not bigger than PC gamers. There is also a large increase in actual gamers who don't want to actually struggle. You can see this with Tabletop RPGs where recent games have often been made to be simplified to not get in the way of the social aspect.

[@mertceptic9902]

The definition of "gamer" has been changing throughout the years. I remember years back when gamer would be someone who would play to climb ranks in some type of leader board, now its just anyone who plays games causally. I believe it started with youtube "lets plays" spreading the gaming culture.

[@warpedreflection3650]

lol I used to say to my sons "As a hardcore gamer..." I play basic btch mum games on my phone.

[@jestbone89]

Good point

[@LotusFlowerrr]

Society on a whole is getting dumber soooooooooooooo....

[@KookoCraft]

self reported lol

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

no, there are just more people online because everybody has a smartphone while having a PC is very rare.

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

back in the early days there where only smart people on the internet because you simply had to be smart to get there, it was a wonderful place no drama at all.

[@Yarsig]

@@JohnSmith-pn2vl No literally, there's data backing up the fall in intellect and a decline in school performance.

[@xXHashassinXx]

Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.

[@jonathanlarsson6719]

It's just the general decline of intelligence in society. Younger generations want fast paced action because the attention span has gone down drastically

[@tpf92]

From what I remember, 2003 was around when cell phones started becoming popular, I remember so many people having the Motorola RAZR, it released in 2004, even before then I remember people having those Nokia brick phones.

[@jonahp1127]

It’s not the players, it’s the devs that are avoiding strategic complexity. Overwatch has been strategically dumbed down by going to 5v5 and releasing heroes with very one dimensional/unhealthy abilities (Mauga, new Orisa, Lifeweaver, Illari, Sojourn with Mercy pocket, Kiriko’s suzu, Roadhog)

[@JT-rb9wf]

Exactly this. They dumbed the game down for all the bad and childish DPS players crying about not being able to get through enemy shields and defenses, when the only problem was skill issues. Overwatch 2 is so dumbed down and stupid I can not play it, because it is annoying.

[@tobeqz7065]

Damn I have 200 hours in the game and idek half of these characters

[@jonahp1127]

@@JT-rb9wf I was addicted to OW in high school and was a masters/GM player on both support and tank, now I haven’t played competitive in over a year partially because I’m washed but also because I just don’t have as much fun playing 5v5. I haven’t bought the battle pass in 2 seasons because I know I don’t play enough to finish it.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

Yep or take a look from Morrowind to Skyrim...

[@Quinnaka]

So it takes skill to Play torbjorn let's goooooo I got a lot to learn.

[@Scheifen1]

"Most" gamers are not playing games for fun anymore, they are playing them for escape. Thinking gives the brain time to remind them life sucks.

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

most gamers dont even have a pc, gaming is a niche. Apple iOS gaming is bigger than all consoles and PC gaming combined, a lot actually. not many people have a PC in the first place

[@holeindanssock156]

Skip the dishes, skip dating.... Skip grinding.... Skip tying your shoes........ Yeah no, Wall- E was right.........

[@MySOAP12]

Nah, if you are thinking about the game then you're not thinking about life. Aka, escape

[@musashi542]

this is cope .

[@guyinapandasuit2691]

Id argue the opposite. Maybe its just me but a game that makes me use my head helps me not think about other stuff. I just put all my focus on the game.

[@thislink1519]

I struggle to enjoy games challenge me with complex problems to solve because I'm torn between figuring get out myself and exploring what other people have figured out. That conflicts makes my efforts feel either cheep or insignificant, as well as makong it a lot more difficult to enjoy the game in a fun way (naturally or self-driven).

[@yobro6053]

I literally was getting anxiety playing fallout 1 for the first time. Having to ask people at settlements for guidance on what the heck to do had my heart racing. I got too used to waypoints .

[@gruuzol6280]

There should be a week long holiday where all social media is just offline

[@disass]

I've never heard of this survey, nor have any of my friends. To me this just suggests that whatever target market they selected to advertise this survey to has become less interested in strategic thinking over time. Not to mention the data point for strategic thinking is based on ONE question in the survey. I took the survey and it said I'm not interested in immersion because I don't care much about story in video games. Completely untrue, Immersion and enjoying story are not the same thing. It's also very disingenuous when it says "Gamers are now more easily cognitively overloaded when they play games and are more likely to avoid strategic complexity." There isn't a single question on the survey about cognitive overload.

[@BayouBriansBops]

I've never heard of the survey either. I also like strategy.

[@nihaoulouloulou3982]

To me it feels like some interest group is spreading some narrative in order to advertise a solution later on.

[@JackCrossSama]

This correlates with the lack of RTS games or strategy games people are not playing anymore compared to the first-person shooter

[@basbekjenl]

I used to play red alert as a kid, I played most C&C games too. I retried one of those out of nostalgia and I was devastated by how bad I had become. I'm gonna need to relearn all those skills again if I want to play those games. It's a skill I'd like to regain but yeah I as a casual gamer can confirm I got so much worse compared to ten years ago simply due to playing other games like factorio.

[@DzzK]

honestly I just got old, when i was a kid I could give a game or a level a thousand tries, now if I fail 3 times I get exhausted and frustrated which I don't enjoy and the whole reason I'm playing games is to avoid exhaustion and frustration from being alive

[@alexlowe2054]

This isn't unique to gaming. IQ scores have been falling in the general population as well. The drop in desire for strategy is surprisingly close to the decline in IQ. Everything in our society is designed to help people avoid thinking, and deliver fake rewards for thinking less. It's no accident. Companies like Facebook hired psychologists to help them build more addicting software. Also, good guess on the smart phone numbers. You're actually pretty close in relative terms, just not in absolute terms. I'm going to start saying that quote. "I'm right, but not as right as I thought I was." Your depiction of social media is spot on.

[@courtneycherry5582]

All the handholding is holding us back as a society

[@Ian92999]

I thought IQ is increasing over generations?

[@isomilo]

​@@Ian92999flynn effect?

[@TheJudgementofDog]

​@@Ian92999Well, when you lower the bar and move the goalposts...

[@Ian92999]

@@TheJudgementofDog please explain, I dont research this topic as I dont give a shit LOL

[@billyhuffman672]

This could also show the trend of the number of video gamers and the market working for the masses of gamers

[@danielkrause1357]

Based on Rocket League and Apex Legends. A lot of people aren't playing strategic and just go in with no plan. It's even more annoying in Rocket League, as in competitive mode, it hurts not just my rank and attempts at progressing my rank but others as well that put thought and effort into the competitive mode.

[@Elsneakakaze]

Its also important to note that "gamers" went from being less than 10% of people to the majority of people in less than 20 years. so its likely just normies moving in and having no attention span or detail.

[@KingMacbean]

I don’t go into highly strategic games anymore because I work full time and don’t want to spend time studying a meta before I even get in the server.

[@markmitchell590]

Yes, guys are either getting on their purpose and use games for relaxation (Helldivers) or vaping in their parents basements and playing games that don't challenge them cognitively because they've shut down. The only people with the time for deep strategy are boomers and early retirees. Says the man with 600 hrs in Truck Simulator and 10 in COMMAND.

[@TESI303]

Unless you're going into multiplayer / pvp, meta is not required. Been playing single player RTS/Strategy/Grand Strategy for decades, and loving it.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

I mean... I just remember when Call of Duty 1 came out, and I encountered a door, and the game literally had a tutorial message appear on the screen telling me I would never need to open doors. And having played System Shock 2, and Homeworld, and Deus Ex, and Half-Life, and Unreal, and Thief, and Freespace 2, and Operation Flashpoint (the ancestor of ArmA)... I just sat there and thought, this doesn't bode well for game design.

[@hikaz8704]

This also may have something to do with the fact if you wanted to be a pc gamer in the 90s or early 2000s you had to know how to trouble shoot since the games almost never worked perfectly the first time you tried to play it.

[@mrtootebacker2371]

I personally love strategic, micromanagement games. From adventure capitalist, prison architect, and cities skylines to rocket league.

[@DaBoomDude]

Factorio, Simcity 4, Satisfactory. Amazing games, i can sit alone in these games for hours and literally forget the time, look up and see its like 2am and i shoulve gone to bed 3 hours ago.

[@thomgizziz]

Yeah adventure capitalist is a kids game... that isn't strategic or complex. Rocket league? do you know what strategy means?

[@tommcgovern2083]

​@@thomgizziz I also had a double take at rocket league 😂 But when I thought about it, when I play with my friends and not just randoms, we do lock in specific strategies for rotation, positioning and learning from mistakes. It does scratch a very specific strategic itch. Same same but different

[@abject_fail]

We all need more XCOM 2 in our lives

[@aaronrocks365]

I love XCOM. It does a very good job of tying tactics into strategy.

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

even though I love xcom2, it is already incredibly dumbed down game to be playable on consoles.

[@geepfish7935]

Lol idk how you play xcom2 but for me the experience was like the "what block goes into what hole" meme, this is circle block, where does it go? Yes, that's right, the square hole (shoves it through with force)

[@carlthegamer9215]

People nowadays put graphics before gameplay - It speaks for itself.

[@miros05]

This editor needs a raise

[@Orpheusftw]

I've found this happening to myself in real time, unfortunately. I think it's just a lot of the modern "quality of life" changes optimizing the challenge out of everything, making us lazy. Sometimes I go back and play an older RPG or something, and it's "I have to search for this _myself?_ There's no waypoint arrow, or icon on the map? ...THERE'S NO MAP? 😩"

[@dankmemes8254]

This is why i would recommend going into games blind

[@ThePC007]

I remember playing Runescape as a kid. I’ve somehow heard from someone (possibly my cousins who also played) that there was this thing called the “Grand Exchange” and decided to look it up on the map to find it. It felt so nice to find it more or less myself. Nowadays I’d probably be wondering why they put something so important so far away from the spawn point with little to no indication that it even exists.

[@TheCyclicGamer]

It's something I talk about called "Convenient Game Design" where QoL changes that became more prevalent with rising gaming technology made certain aspects of a game either easier or less frustrating to deal with, but also makes the player less engaged and therefore not as invested into the tasks they are doing, thus making, as you said, one lazy. The Autosave feature is probably the most common example of this. Some games do benefit from having it, but back then the lack of an autosave make certain games much more tense and even terrifying in some cases, and therefor, more engaging.

[@elikyiael8740]

there's quality of life changes and dumbification changes

[@killaknight12]

To be fair, the older you get the less time you probably got on your hands so some QoL stuff is just a time saver. Though if you like it more immersive there are games which let you customize the minimap and UI to some extent.

[@JAdHum]

This is because gaming has gone mainstream. Today every teenage boy plays some kind of shooter, which dilutes the pool of niche gamers who enjoy strategy-style games.

[@rickroll9705]

no lol. Movies and music were also by most part of its lifespans mainstream. Since late 2000s they havens been going downhill in technical complexity more and more because the average population has become more more dumb, games just took longer to go down to the same path but it was expected.

[@thenonexistinghero]

Nah, it's not because of the mainstream. It's because gaming has shifted from focusing on delivering quality games to focusing on milking money through addiction. Almost the whole mobile game market was like this and this has made its way into console games as well. Most major and most popular games are centered around gamers spending extra money on it overtime through pay to win, cosmetics, paid updates, season/battle passes, etc. It's all about activating those instant satisfaction systems in your body. It's a bit of a shift in general though, not just gaming. Society these days is all about that instead of rewarding hard work these days. In fact, hard work is often punished.

[@avis57]

@@rickroll9705 There has always been mountains of terrible movies, music, games, etc. People tend to think media was better in the past because the only stuff that gets remembered are the relatively few gems that stand out from the piles of garbage.

[@jaspermooren5883]

​@@rickroll9705 what? Movies have gotten so much faster and more complicated, at least the good ones. Old movies are extremely slow and hold your hand so much compared to modern movies. Media literacy has gone up a ton and directors know it. If you watch a movie like Oppenheimer and compare that let's say Rain Man the difference is staggering. Not that I would call Rain Man slow, but it's definitely a lot slower.

[@RealDeeh]

​​@@thenonexistingheroyea but, the industry shifts towards money, if people buy this shit they make more of it, simple. fromsoftware tries to make an atual good game, because their leaders have a vision. They hard work and make money, but what's easier? Making a great game every 2 years that only sells once, or make a shit edgy shooter that will make you money for years, and u don't even to update it properly, just add skins and a bad designed character every 3 months.

[@ViridianRainIIV]

This is real, the first time that I played Elden Ring. Tried to use multiplayer mod cuz me and my little brother wanted to play it together right. Turns out the multiplayer mod wasn't that good so we decided to play on our own and occasionally join each other instead. We then went on to complete the game independently, except we searched up weapons and had videos and music in the background while playing it and didn't pay attention to story. Fast forward about a year and some months after. (I never played further than Fire Giant.) I decided now to redo the game as a wretch. Decided to pay attention to the story and play without guides nor anything in the background and I actually enjoyed myself. Discovered new things I hadn't before etc. For example, Renna gave me the spirit bell in the starting area, didn't happen on my first playthrough. Kale giving me directions to meet blaidd, on my first playthrough didn't meet him until after the Radahn boss fight. He helped me defeat Darriwil as a quest, defeated him on my own on the first playthrough. There's so much more to do and to discover when you're actually paying attention. It's been an amazing experience. Did this with RDR2 and many others games as well and they are among my favorites as of now. Thank you for reading. Tried to structure the comment in a way that is more readable for people as to not give them a headache with all the information jumbled together. Have a nice day / night ^^

[@Yunglex313]

A lot of this data also doesn't take into account strategy found in other games. There are all kinds of strategic elements and planning in various kinds of games. Turn based tactics like Fire Emblem, your turn based Rpgs, the amount of time and thought that goes into team building and gacha games. Now yes, this is still good data as it shows a correlation to high thought requiring games being played less as social media use goes up.

[@barbatos9441]

I'm not surprised with the statistics considering how many gamers buys triple A trash cash grab game.

[@GravitasZero]

And how many will defend micro-transactions, P2W mechanics, loot-boxes, subscriptions for a single player game, and general pricing. Then they say “just spend your money however you want”… unable to project themselves into the future farther than the next day, not understanding that their dumbass actions (voting with their wallet dumbly) have repercussions that everyone else endures.

[@S.GRAVE117]

The fact that Asmons editors are so quick to clip and put this together within the hour while he's still live right now is crazy. Kudos to you guys

[@h3artl3sspr0ducti0ns]

Relative to gaming, almost nobody takes the time to strategize and figure things out in a game beyond the tip-of-the-spear content creators that map out nerdmath to reduce everything down to a formulaic sequential process- so everybody just follows that template, and if they struggle duplicating the winning least-effort-shortest-time-biggest-rewards strategy they consider themselves suboptimal, then bail for a more simplistic/easy game for maximum gratification; not just the gratification of enjoying a game but the self-congratulatory "I'm good, excel and am not embarrassed by my own performance" kind of gratification. People are steadily losing the capacity to be truly tenacious or adventurous, and wide selection in genre and methodology ( grind, pay-to-win, etc. ) make critical thinking optional.

[@ShouAmaterasu]

Two games: Elden Ring and Grand Chase Elden Ring: The meta is entirely centered around being a vagabond. Say you picked bandit or astrologer, but everything you're wearing and investing for is just stuff for Vagabond because big KZbinrs told you that you absolutely NEED to hit that poise threshold and ABSOLUTELY 60 Vigor to play PvP. I've had people groan at me for having hardly any poise because I want to be a Hero (Viking, barbarian, berserker) that holds multiple heavy weapons and using Endure, Wild Strikes, and the various Roar ashes to make up for the lack of poise. I even made a 37 Vigor Renalla build actually fun and usable. Grand Chase: Not as well known and MMO, but an MMO it is regardless. I get so much shit on Discord and even locked out of Raid content for investing in HP and Defense on a character that has a two MP bar heal (as opposed to 3MP bars) that heals 30% HP and a 4th bar that revives yourself and your allies once after use and a variety of support fields. I could easily be dealing less damage than I do, but I deliberately try to balance my Defensive and Offensive stats to deal a semblance of damage while also being ready to heal in content that has limited dungeon specific healing consumables at best, and completely locking out healing consumables at worst.... But no, despite their being a "carry trade" economy where one can literally afk and get carried, I'm not allowed to participate because I simply don't have big enough attack numbers, ON A SUPPORT CHARACTER THAT SCALES ON HP. Their excuse? "It's too slow".

[@robster7787]

I blame the handholding in video games. Instead of figuring things out by yourself, you’re instead watching a guide telling you the answer to builds and approaches.

[@prosbo]

How else am I meant to beat this 70hr game in 2hrs and refund it to get a different game to do the same thing over and over for infinite free games?!

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

all you have to do is go to the way-back machine and look up articles made when Elden Ring released 2 years ago. all the casual scum were complaining that the game is too hard and doesn't hold their hand at every turn, yet it got game of the year because _actual_ gamers love it.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

Yeah. Then you get into a sandbox "hardcore" TBS roguelike like Battle Brothers or something like Fear and Hunger and people don't even bother trying to figure them out before running to Reddit

[@fellipecanal]

Thanks for the editor for providing the link to the study.

[@revick2769]

I thought I was losing interest in strategy until unicorn overlord, the most fun I had was coming up with team synergies and setting their conditions

[@SCPlntrCll096]

What can I say? Simulator games still require a certain level of strategy, tactical games still require strategies, even the games like Candy Crush still needs strategy to beat in fewest moves. It's just that new people tend to jump into something without looking first, hence forming the bad habit of ignoring strategies in each game.

[@jravage77]

The school system is a major problem, too! They literally pass kids that fail, believe "math is racist", and don't allow discipline to the point that are teachers are quitting in droves.

[@Carousel111]

Yeah and teachers are screaming this and it seems it’s only getting worse unfortunately

[@kellerweskier7214]

i agree, but lets not forget that it was the Right wing that defunded the schools and after school programs.

[@dushaunlewis7574]

I'm certain the amount of teachers that believe "math is racist" is miniscule. You're going to have a VERY hard time finding people that genuinly believe this.

[@JarrydTIme]

I am a high school teacher and my colleagues and I talk about how kid's attention spans are miniscule. They don't want to be taught critical thinking but they just want the answer to get an A. Not just to pass but they believe they are entitled to an A. I do believe the pandemic did have a role to play, but everything else he spoke about with low attention spans as well.

[@MillenniumEarl014]

If they didn't pass students that fail then most of those students will stop going to school. Which is worse.

[@KillerLuvsPie]

As soon as i saw the title, i already made up my mind as to what the main cause of this is: Normies and the fact games went mainstream, which made games have normie friendly game design (for example, THE yellow paint). Long are the days of starting the game and finding things out yourself, just spam wikis and have super long tutorials that explain 100% of the game

[@CainChaosis]

As a lover of stratigy games (fist game on PC was original Command & Conquer) i have felt this over the years and can only blame toany people losing critical thinking skills and just wanting free gratification.

[@younited8959]

It's not gamers that are getting dumber, It's people in general. Specially in America

[@kidcoma1340]

Not sure about that, I think dumb people used to be more invisible, now everyone has to listen to their opinions and dumb takes on the internet.

[@SITHWAX]

"Specially" ?

[@younited8959]

@@kidcoma1340 Good point

[@taekwondoguy6039]

Nah bruh the rest of the world is so dumb they don’t understand basic universal rights lord forbid you call em God given rights

[@younited8959]

@SITHWAX "Specially" is an adverb that means "in particular" or "extremely". For example, "The children really liked the museum, specially the dinosaurs". "Specially" can also mean "for a particular purpose". For example, "I came here specially to see you". Yes, specially in America.

[@ivtec4fun55]

I remember when my focus went.... I didn't even use socials while it was happening, and I noticed it. I have a really hard time getting focused in on things now. I miss it a lot and I think the only way to get away from the noise now is to live a super simple life, away from neighbors, away from passing cars, away. Just chillin.

[@purpleey]

Is it just me or did the title change from "Strategy Games Less Popular" or something along those lines

[@tommydraeger8086]

I myself have found my attention span increase as I did away with social media

[@vizibunzales7873]

Not just gamers - society is frying it's brain as a whole.

[@RG32822]

It's the internet, we need to get rid of it. Gamers need to go back to reading in-game directions instead of googling how to do everything.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

We are being bred as materialistic consumers, from school onwards. This neoliberal mindrot caused this, down the line, it also caused wokeism to sprout.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

@@RG32822 That is indeed true, also as an example Morrowind and Skyrim, in Morrowind you'd have to orient yourself on your surroundings, the description of the Quest, in Skyrim you run brain afk to the Quest Marker. No need for orientation, as much as i like Skyrim, Morrowind was so much more nuanced and also from a storytelling perspective, way deeper.