$4.35 Fix for Intel Thermal Problems | Thermalright 12th Gen Contact Frame

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We're benchmarking and reviewing the Thermalright 12th Gen CPU Contact Frame, which competes with Thermal Grizzly's $35 contact frame that we recently reviewed. Our viewers highly requested the Thermalright frame for review, so in this testing, we're evaluating the pressure performance and distribution of the mount, the thermals, and the build quality.
Watch our first contact frame review where we detailed the problem (and why these exist) here: • Investigating Intel's ...
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RELATED PRODUCTS
Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame on Amazon: geni.us/YTTkS
Thermalright Contact Frame on Amazon: geni.us/C3ujvgM
NOTE: You can also get the Thermalright frame very cheap from AliExpress, but we're not sure how reliable the shipping will be.
Competing (Alternative) 12th Gen Contact Frame on Amazon: geni.us/hqOs5BX
Arctic MX-4 Thermal Paste on Amazon: geni.us/k3kT6
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - $4.35 Contact Frame vs. $35 Thermal Grizzly
02:06 - What's in the Box
03:25 - Price vs. Thermal Grizzly's 12th Gen Contact Frame
04:11 - Installation Differences & Quality
05:45 - Why Thermal Grizzly is Expensive
07:08 - Manufacturing Quality
08:03 - Pressure Testing
09:45 - i7-12700 Pressure of Thermalright vs. Thermal Grizzly
10:43 - i9-12900KS Pressure Tests
11:25 - i9-12900 Pressure Tests
11:41 - Thermal Testing Methodology Notes
12:39 - Thermal Benchmarks for Intel Contact Frames
13:25 - Thoughts on Thermal & Pressure Results
14:45 - Mike Shows How to Install the Thermalright Frame
18:00 - IMPORTANT NOTES ON RESISTANCE
20:00 - Conclusion & Whether It's Worth It
** Please like, comment, and subscribe for more! **
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Host, Test Engineering, Writing: Steve Burke
Test Technician: Mike Gaglione
Video Production: Andrew Coleman

[@GamersNexus]

Watch our first contact frame review where we detailed the problem (and why these exist) here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6TFY2isqLN1h6s The best way to support our work is through our store: store.gamersnexus.net/

[@Noah-lj2sg]

Already watched 😎

[@EnigmaticGentleman]

But when will you add the most intensive game ever made to your catalogue, the PC Port of Lanky Kong Commonwealth for Game Boy Color?

[@obsey]

Once Thermalright gets these frames onto amazon at a discount price they are going to sell a bazillion of these!

[@slink_fpv4815]

Obviously the world knows it takes hours and hours to make these videos. Why do you have to mention it in every video? " omggggg it is SO hard making all these videos on time and calculating our record profit this year. please pander to us in the comments so we feel good tonight! "

[@MrLince-hr4of]

china is still copy everything they can🤣🤣🤣

[@CadeCraze]

Thank goodness there are ways we can fix the problems caused by these multi-billion dollar companies, heaven knows they can't afford this kind of extra cost.

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

Companies being cringe as always

[@Nesformers]

Hey, dumb people will keep throwing money their way buying their half broken inneficient space heaters so as far as theyre concerned this is fine

[@__aceofspades]

The issue is with the cooler. The Arctic Freezer II that Steve is testing has a flat cold plate, CPU IHS are NEVER flat unless lapped. This isnt a new issue. Its why Noctua even proudly stated their coolers have convex plates, because they mount better to the concave IHS that CPUs have.

[@Lishtenbird]

As explained in the original video on the topic - it's a balance between making a foolproof solution for the vast majority of customers, a cheap solution for still a very large segment of budget customers, and thermal efficiency at the highest end.

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

Always has been. Having multi-billion dollar doesn't magically make it possible. They did it first, to get the multi-billion. Get some ambition bro

[@KenOtwell]

Can't remember the last time something so simple could be so easy and cheap, and still have a more-than-trivial improvement.

[@theredscourge]

Insert your mom joke here

[@Megalomaniakaal]

Liquid metal for thermal compound? That is perhaps the only one I can think of.

[@Rspsand07]

When I was in Spain recently, wine was 1 euro and rum 4 euros. Those improve your QOL in a more than trivial way for less

[@benjaminlynch9958]

Duck tape.

[@Silenthorror13]

@@Megalomaniakaal simple, huh?

[@bradstewart8663]

I just installed a Thermalright on my 12700k because of this video and it brought my cpu temps down a good 8-10 degrees. Highly reccomended.

[@HanmaHeiro]

I'm gonna do the same in a few weeks. Waiting on a thermal grizzly kryosheet to compare against too versus and Enermax liqmax III AIO and thermalright phantom spirit I have

[@AleksCoreBY]

yeap I did the same and I clearly can tell 8-10C is not even exaggeration. Difference can be even more, and what's more important temperatures do not jump anymore

[@RoyBrown777]

This reads like a fake ad.

[@AleksCoreBY]

It is for sure lol, but it's reality! We also probably has to mention that our chipset is Z690, it may be that on Z790 there is no problem im not sure@@RoyBrown777Before getting my frame I also had experiements with thermal paste and I can tell using bad thermal paste also affect A LOT!

[@bocahdongo7769]

​@@RoyBrown777what do you expect from Intel not using Xeon mounting anyway. LGA 1700 is literally much bigger than LGA 2066 Xeon

[@bensides2206]

Incredible. My new 12700k build was pegging at 100c and throttling down during Cinebench full load and Intel's XTU benchmark. Got the thermalright contact frame from Amazon, installed it EXACTLY as shown in this video, put everything back together. When booting, for some reason I got the "new CPU installed", and took me to the bios, which I exited immediately, and it booted to desktop. The idle temp, previously at 30-32c, is now 25c. Under load, Cinebench and XTU topped out at 69c. I kid you not. It's my Christmas. May the Intel engineers who designed the default contact assembly/thing get coal in their stockings.

[@bensides2206]

Oh, thanks Steve and Mike!

[@sherifmorgan3302]

Same here with I9 13900k 👍

[@NewageAMV]

@@sherifmorgan3302 can we use this contact plate for 13th gen too?

[@theitguy45]

@@NewageAMV of course

[@robbob3717]

@@NewageAMV Its the same socket type so of course. It's just because they are cheap and mass produced that they all say 12th gen haha.

[@concinnus]

The dumbest part of this issue is that Intel could have fixed it for even less -- probably $1 more for a better ILM, since it would still be high-volume-production stamped steel. They could even spec it to the boardmakers for the Z690 only.

[@MiGujack3]

Oddly enough they already had a decent ILM before, the ones with two levers.

[@inqizzo]

@@MiGujack3 yoo, i forgot that they actually made better ones

[@inqizzo]

And yea, thats a good point, on intel scale it would cost them tousands of dolars, but they could make it into a marketing thing like: intel on 150W runs cooler or amd or some bs

[@concinnus]

@@MiGujack3 Right, exactly.

[@dexter2433]

Intel dose not make the motherboards from what I understand ///??

[@nickeshchauhan5661]

Really enjoy seeing the other presenters in recent videos, it's nice to see the different personalities in the team!

[@chrisohanlon69]

Especially ones with short hair.

[@Kevin_the_Caveman]

Mike is very charismatic

[@trubblebubble1]

Hugely valuable vid, thanks. I installed a Thermalright frame and, though my temperatures dropped significantly, I also lost the use of SDRAM sockets 3 and 4. Tried all possible configs, it would only recognise slots 1 & 2, so I found Mike's walkthrough installation and it looks like I might have over-tighten the frame when I installed it (as he said, the pictures on the box are less than helpful), so I started again from scratch, tightening a quarter-turn at a time and not pushing it beyond the hard limit and jackpot! I now have my memory slots back! Thanks Mike!

[@blockedpot]

I have been using the Thermalright for a few weeks now. Lowered my temperatures by 8-10 degrees Celsius. I strongly recommend saving money and going for the Thermalright. Using this with a 12700K.

[@Z34_TR]

Just installed mine and I got identical results as you -8c to -10c across all cores. Running a 12700k with an Arctic LF 360 aio.

[@blockedpot]

@@Z34_TR Yup. I have the same AIO. LF2 360. Should have bought it when I bought the rig in the first place. I honestly did not even do the fastening very scientifically. Just eyeballed it.

[@LennethValkyrieify]

I ordered one for my 12700K as well, it's underperforming in Cinebench temp wise with a Arctic freezer 360. I thought at first that I didn't apply thermal paste properly, even though I usually just put a pea size in the middle or spread it(mostly for laptops)... so I checked after a few weeks of use and there was barely any paste on the middle of the IHS, kinda like on the pressure test from Steve. For anyone wondering, I used Hydronaut as I always do.

[@blockedpot]

@@LennethValkyrieify How were the results.

[@LennethValkyrieify]

@@blockedpot I installed it yesterday, honestly a bit disappointing in my case, maybe like 2C difference, though I noticed the random temp spikes to 50+ during normal use are almost non existent now.

[@snowhawk4049]

so Intel's next gen CPUs will be roughly 8° C cooler, good to know ahead of the marketing slides

[@get-in-2-get-out774]

UnderRated comment

[@veloxsouth]

@@get-in-2-get-out774 totally agree

[@eljoel89]

Actually, they'll make them 8°C hotter cause they know their customers will buy their own mounting rings. Then you get the same temps with higher power draw.

[@GreatYamatanoOrochi]

Oh man, I'm actually annoyed that you're most likely right

[@ffwast]

@@eljoel89 and rhen they'll say "see, it's faster!" just like they're adding more of low performance cores instead of high performance cores people actually want so they can say "see, more cores!"

[@manaboosted]

ever since i've discovered this channel, i've loved every upload no matter the length. Steve is such a great commentator and is very knowledgeable, could listen to him talk about computers for hours

[@GamersNexus]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@lilxg21]

Agreed… doesn’t stretch irrelevant content like jaytwocentz in my opinion cause that guy can go on and on about something that can be explained simply with a few sentences. I still watch his videos though… just more selective what I watch however.

[@manaboosted]

@@lilxg21 I don't really enjoy much of jayz videos, can easily get any information he is giving out from a different creator in a much more concise method. And not much of a fan of the humor he has either

[@ThexXxXxOLOxXxXx]

@@manaboosted Yeah on the technical side GN always wins they'll present you the thing as if you already have a very good grip on IT

[@manaboosted]

@@ThexXxXxOLOxXxXx I thoroughly enjoy it.

[@johniredale8914]

I had the very good fortune to come across this video and your thermal grizzly one about two weeks before my 12th gen stuff arrived. man am i glad i did! ordered the cheap one from amazon, followed mike's instructions and it all went off without a hitch. Mike was right you can totally feel when it bottoms out and you're done tightening. You guys always manage to have the info i need! keep doing the things!! :D

[@killer01ws6]

I really appreciate your team testing this, I wanted the TG one, but it had such a long lead time and I wanted it before a finished my build, so I got the TM one.. I did follow the same TG install process and put my own witness marks on it... Glad to see it seems to had been a good choice!

[@Haetheii]

"They have matched a far more expensive competitor on the market" I found this to be the case with thermal paste as well. Noctua NT-H2 performs identically (give or take 1% at best) to Kryonaut, but it's significantly cheaper. I usually buy medium-sized tubes that will last multiple installs because it has a strong shelf life, multiple years

[@h1tzzYT]

kryonaut is also massive PITA to spread on IHS. Tried warming it up before application, it helped a bit but it was still a struggle. After that i used mx-4 and temp diff were in variable tolerance, maybe 1-2c higher? Also not to mention the price difference. I still have a tube of nt-h1 from my nhd15 chromax cooler i will try it too when the time comes.

[@ronnie3044]

Thats basically all thermal paste. I get MX4 for about $4 a tube and it performs basically just as well as NT-H2. Ive started even using the stock thermal paste that comes with products and noticed theres very minimal temp differences.

[@fredocuomo5386]

kryonaut and kingpin kpx are meant for ln2 cooling, they dry out around 80c..if you're not extreme cooling youre not gonna see difference outside of testing variance...i use conductonaut and wipe around the die with clear nail polish on cpu and gpu..i also clean and re-apply it every 6 months...mx4 you can use once and it will last years..it can sit on the shelf for up to 8 yrs and still be useable

[@StephenDeTomasi]

Just wait till you learn about GD900 paste. Even better value

[@SixStringViolence]

@@StephenDeTomasi GD900 all the way. I use the 30g tubes. They cost just 3 - 4€ and performs better than MX4 and on par with Kryonaut.

[@wowdogeful]

I love that you tell right in the beginning how much experience you have in testing that specific type of gear. You guys do your absolute best to be as transparent and objective as possible and acknowledge that, while they are rare, even someone with as much experience as you guys can still make mistakes every once in a while. Your professionalism and objectivity makes you easily the best computer hardware channel on KZbin, keep up the amazing work!

[@JustinCrediblename]

Good to see Thermalright making something good again. Their Macho CPU cooler was one of the original huge coolers and seemed to have set the stage for the nh-d15, deepcool assassin III, and dark rock pro 4

[@jeremytine]

my father is still rocking Macho on 3770k. That cooler exceeded expectations. I overbuilt it so even with no cleaning abuse it would work well and it has for over 11 years.

[@JustinCrediblename]

​@@jeremytine Exactly. I'm still using my macho Rev B on my AMD 3900x and it benchmarks quite well. You're totally right about it just tanking through neglect, too. hehe.

[@ClassicalPan]

Some of their newer coolers are actually more effective than the D-15, which I didn't expect since the Noctua cooler costs 3x more and is the one we are most familiar with. I ordered the Phantom Spirit for my build.

[@JustinCrediblename]

@@ClassicalPan heheh and if you want the best fan to go with it, it'll be almost the same price as the heatsink

[@ClassicalPan]

@@JustinCrediblename Oh yeah, fans can be crazy expensive. But this cooler is one of the best performing air coolers available. Plus, I bought a Fractal Torrent, so my temps should be pretty good all around.

[@hamradi0]

I've installed three of these contact frames so far due to the recommendation of this video. Temps dropped 5-10 degrees in each. Thank you for providing the detailed install instructions as well, I refer to them each time I install one.

[@devsfan1830]

Harsh edges on the machining are clearly a nod to pc cases of old where a blood sacrifice to the computer was ensured while building one. 😁

[@bjn714]

Thermal Grizzly wasn't the first one to release this, Thermalright was. So it's disingenuous to say that this is "continuing what Thermal Grizzly started" when the Thermalright product was on the market months prior.

[@rulik006]

Yes

[@therealb888]

If you're new, Steve x Roman 😂. GN x der8aur. He's been shillong for him since ages.

[@dac33nr58]

I agree, no need for Mercedes level snobbishness with price as long as it's good enough to give even pressure.

[@Finsternis..]

​@@dac33nr58 It's not so much about snobbishness as Germany actually having inklings of reasonable labor laws. They can't sell them at lower price while keeping a reasonable profit. (which doesn't mean you should spend 40$ instead of 5$ given the chance - producing low tech in a high tech country is just silly and borders at irresponsibility)

[@dac33nr58]

@@Finsternis.. Your saying craftmanship is silly ? "producing low tech in a high tech country" I'm talking about how others perceive snobbishness, not necessarily Germans themselves.

[@Dooky1973]

I've just purchased and fitted one of these to my MSI Z690 TOMAHAWK motherboard and Intel 13700K CPU. It cost me 10 GBP from Amazon UK (which came direct from Thermalright). It was pretty easy to fit. Was a bit nervous about how much to tighten the screws and your fitting guide certainly helped, so thanks for that. I am now seeing a temperature drop of between 6c & 10c depending on what I'm doing. I am now getting around 70c running Cinebench (with my cooling running in extreme mode) where as before that was more like 80c. Overall I am really pleased with this product, especially for the price. I would certainly recommend this. Thanks for a great video! Cheers from the UK! ;o)

[@tolpacourt]

TOMAHAWK! Let's go!

[@ericryan4330]

I was leaning toward Thermal Grizzly before watching this review. The main thing that swayed me toward the Thermalright was not the cost, but rather the mounting process being more straightforward (since I do not own a torque wrench), with no real trade-offs in performance.

[@hadleys.4869]

I have the thermal Grizzly contact frame and it’s very difficult at times to gauge how much pressure you have on the board. I feel like I’ve got too much pressure on my new Asus ROG Maximus z790 Apex motherboard. And that it could be affecting my memory overclocking stability and frequency potential. So I just ordered the Thermalright LGA1700 contact frame since it has the thin rubber pads at each end to help disperse the pressure over a larger area and reduce the risk of causing memory stability issues. I should receive it tomorrow and I’ll take apart my Corsair h170i elite lcd 420mm AIO heatsink/pump and remove my thermal grizzly. The thermal Grizzly just seemed to get way too tight too quickly when screwing it down.

[@shutitfukface]

Any update on how it went? I just received my thermalright today but haven't installed it yet, anything I should be aware of?

[@gianlucabing]

@@hadleys.4869 Any update?

[@hadleys.4869]

@@shutitfukface I installed my screws until it was snug and it felt I could go any further without pushing it. Everything seems good so far. Haven’t had any memory issues running my g skill. 7800mhz 32gb xmp kit at xmp mode. It was much easier to install as well than the thermal grizzly contact frame.

[@hadleys.4869]

@@gianlucabing see my other reply below. Everything running great so far and it was much easier to install than the thermal grizzly.

[@akadevvy]

Thermalright has been killing it. Wish you'd take a look at their coolers they seem to be on par with top end air coolers while priced way cheaper.

[@ganthrithor]

Thermalright *is* a top-end cooler-- they pretty much invented the category. Literally every modern "high end air cooler" you see on the market is a clone of Thermalright's products from ~2000-something.

[@n.erdbeer]

@@ganthrithor indeed, thermalright is no new manufacturer, they make very decent coolers. My first PC had a "true spirit power 140" single tower cooler, which earned a lot top ratings in tests back then. They were best cooler manufacturer multiple years in a row

[@t045tygh05t]

@@ganthrithor Truth. The copper XP-120 was a fucking beast back in the day.

[@shawnmcquade246]

Actually, pretty sure Thermalright had this out months before TG did..

[@PeteYagmin]

Just found your channel thanks to Adam Savage's Tested channel posting this video on Facebook and I'm really enjoying your content!

[@mrgordons5130]

This was such an honest and refreshing review that approached the subject from several different directions.

[@GCAT01Living]

The "Thanks Steve." I'm dead! XD Really nice review as always. This is the kind of stuff I love. Comparing the same product at different price points and drilling down on any differences, why they exist, and what they mean for the consumer. You guys are awesome!

[@Zwank36]

I was utterly baffled that ThermalRight sorta disappeared into obscurity after they produced the XP-120 cooler in the early 2000's. They were the Noctua of their time.

[@SteelSkin667]

Based on the time they fell into obscurity, I think it is actually Noctua that took the crown by beating them to the punch at delivering the best tower-style CPU coolers (at least at the time). It's really a shame, because they were untouchable for the longest time.

[@ArahdunGaming]

As far as I can tell, they still make some fairly good stuff, I personally have one of their air coolers in my PC, Its both quiet and cool, I reckon Noctua simply took over in terms of popularity because they simply were/are better overall

[@simoSLJ89]

Me too! In 2012 when I assembled my first computer, I bought a ThermalRight Venomous X as a cooler, it was the best single tower!

[@rudy_dstroys1821]

Eh, Their products aren't the best, at least their current line up but yes, I remember those fans back in the early 2000s and got great reviews.

[@_thevaporz]

The $45 Peerless Assassin 120 SE is only a couple degrees off Dark Rock Pro 4 and Noctua NH-D15 at full load 260W (*Hardware Canucks).

[@goobernoodles]

Great info as always - I appreciate the work that goes into these videos!

[@concentricmachining4636]

Just a cool decade doing thermal work lol nice and left room at the top for improvements love you guys!

[@GregorysBrain]

I've been using the Thermalright Contact Frame for several months now on both my 12900K and KS under LN2. I've had absolutely no issues thus far. Tonight I'll be putting my G.Skill Trident Z5s 6600CL34 to the test on the Z690 Dark K|NGP|N under LN2.

[@silure9502]

What does your flexing has to do with the video?

[@funnyfuel420]

@@silure9502 lmao

[@BugattiBoy01]

@@silure9502 About the first 7 words

[@TinchoX]

Cool, cool.

[@GregorysBrain]

@@silure9502 how on earth is that a flex? 🤣 Steve literally stated that he wasn't sure how the contact frame would fair with memory overclocking. Last night I managed a solid 7200 32-39-39-28 2T, which simply isn't possible with the stock ILM. I had nothing but issues with memory training before I switched to the Thermalright Contact Frame.

[@SnowsterSC]

For future content like this (even not more ILM replacements), it would be great to get torque figures from installs. Even if it’s just a ‘here’s what we got, ymmv’ kind of thing having a N*M number would be great. Good work as always!

[@tep1003]

I am assuming there were no torque specs given, since it was mentioned that the instructions were pictures.

[@TheDoomerBlox]

@@tep1003 Yes, that's why it would be useful to the end-user that *the reviewer* provides that which the manufacturer decided you weren't worthy of being provided.

[@motortiki]

Coming from an optics background, I sympathize with this. But the issue is, such small screws have very low torque values, on the order of 0.8 nm maximum torque or less. And based upon the procedure they give here and in the other video, they are actually under-torquing the bolts to meet the cpu's pressure requirement. At these low Nm values, torque measurements just aren't useful: conventional tools can't reliably make such small measurements, and the unconventional ones that can are expensive and not really available to end users. For small hardware like this, the best ways of assembling is clocking the amount of turn via reference marks, like they do in the Thermal Grizzly video, or simply turning it until the frame makes contact with the motherboard, like they do in this video.

[@hubermayer7551]

with the thermal right solution torque does not matter at all. As you just screw it down until the parts touch. tightening more doesn't significantly change the pressure on the CPU as any extra load is just between motherboard the the thermal right frame.Thermal rights solution depends on the tolerances of the motherboard, socket and CPU. I am not sure if they did tests with different motherboards. The more I am thinking about it the more I like the thermal right solution. It has some significant benefits. Depending on the manufacturing and that shouldn't be hard to get right it will orient the CPU parallel to the motherboard. This helps with the cooler as the cooler is also screwed parallel to the motherboard. The Thermal Grizly solution only adjusts for the same torque on all sides but that might lead to the planes of the motherboard and the CPU top not being parallel even if perfectly tightening the screws. And its very easy to not tighten them perfectly.

[@brandoncarr441]

Really good to see that you guys are non-biased! Great review, coming back for more.

[@eskwadrat]

Another excellent executed test with best engineering practices when applicable amd data to show results. Thank you.

[@traindoctor]

Good information. I'll always support companies like ThermalGrizzly for their desire to ensure their workers are well provided for. Price and quality don't always take priority over the ethics.

[@georgetek]

True but stock does.

[@csi2448]

@@georgetek this x1000. I’m in the process of finishing my PC and I’ve been keeping an eye on stock as well as I can, and I’ve never found the TG in stock. So I wasn’t given a choice. I had to go with the Thermalright one because it was actually available to buy!

[@xkm1948]

How do you know Thermalright is not treating its employees and contractors well? You have a very western biased "ethics"

[@babablacksheep3950]

Good for you. For others who don't have much disposable income, the tears and sweat of Chinese slave labors are of little concern to them.

[@WyattOShea]

@@lugaidster Same here with the can't justify part. Here the thermalright is 1/3 the price of the grizzly one not including probably another 10-20 for shipping whereas the thermalright I can get on amazon (aus) with free shipping which ends up in the grizzly costing 4x as much money lol. It's just not worth it for the more expensive option to me. To be fair though I don't even have a cpu that could use it anyway (3700x) but I had to have a look after seeing your comment just to see the price difference in my country lol.

[@ashamancito4630]

The amount of dedicated work you guys put in is just amazing.

[@ThumpingThromnambular]

The installation of the frame is so satisfying just to hear about. I'm not usually conscious of how one can deal with the impreciciseness when installing hardware like a CPU. Really looking forward to installing this.

[@Lazarosaliths]

Amazing to see other GN members on screen!!! Thanks Steve. Now back to you Steve

[@angepano8591]

Great review! I completely would have bought the TG option but it was out of stock everywhere and well, I wanted to see if it worked for myself. So I did get the TR one and it was pretty simple and dropped my temps even a little better than I expected.

[@ecophreak1]

Reminiscent of the pre-heatspreader days using shims to prevent huge copper heatsinks from chipping the cpu die (coincidentally I had a thermalright 900u, half a kilo of solid copper)

[@hectords164]

This solved my 13th gen thermal mystery, thank you. I had purchased a new cooler and was skeptical because my temps were all over the place. I was going from 45-70c randomly at idle with a new AIO. Bought this frame after being convinced, followed the instructions and voila. I have yet to go over 50c in any game and my idle temps stay at a cool 31-34c

[@arturskoczynski4825]

I just installed thermalight frame on 14900KF with Noctua NH-D15, thank you guys for this installation guide as it's very helpful and after watching it, installation process was so easy :) Temperature drop was not so drastically but noticeable. in benchmark I've got higher score, I will still hit 100 degrees with stress test but in games I can see some improvement (5-8 degrees lower) again thanks Steve and Mike for this video

[@BRUXXUS]

The content and information itself is as good as always, but I really have to say I'm enjoying the more slick production style you guys have been moving towards lately. Very clean and crisp, but also more friendly and inviting with more of the team being on camera. 😀

[@jhowle9475]

“Thanks Steve” for making this video. I own a few of these thermalright frames and they work really well which you made very clear. Versus the thermal grizzly one at $35 is a terrible dollar per degree saving value.

[@DuBstep115]

I would gladly pay 50 bucks to magically drop my cpu temps 10c

[@rflair]

@@DuBstep115 Instead of $5 to do the same, lol.

[@PabzRoz]

Yeah I got a thermalright frame for my 12700K and dropped my temps by 5c. My previous memory OC is still stable as well. Couldn't justify buying the TG frame at that ridiculous price. Especially when you can't even buy one anyway. The few places that sold em were all outa stock.

[@zac2384]

@@PabzRoz you can't justify a $15 difference with a $400 CPU on a possibility thousand plus dollar machine?

[@PabzRoz]

@@zac2384 What..? Of course not? Why would I throw away $15 on a product when I can get basically the same exact product cheaper? What you said literally makes no sense.

[@heyitsrayrui]

“Walking back the screws to not cross thread them” thank you!

[@neralem]

Nice, thanks! Just ordered the Thermal Grizzly frame. Impressive that these can lower the temp up to 7°C

[@charliemancuso5690]

Well done Steve. Love your channel. Full of useful content.

[@underdog9785]

Always figured $35 was too much for something so simple. Thanks for this.

[@1pcfred]

You'd be surprised just how much precision costs.

[@MaxMichel89]

The huge drop in temperatures, you otherwise only get with custom watercooling are worth it. Also maybe thermal Grizzly was copied by thermalright. (But i dont know that for Sure). If you really Care about temps and already use custom watercooling 35$ are not the Main costs....

[@ValentineC137]

@@MaxMichel89 If this is thermalright copying thermal grizzly, then all 120mm tower coolers must have copied eachother lol

[@iRaised95]

I’m a cnc machinist I don’t think you understand what is Precision and what can cost The lower you go on the scale the more expensive it is Plus they designed the product and make it in house in Germany, so ofc it will be more expensive Plus maintaining 0,04mm across all their frames it’s no joke Oh but why? It’s a thin part open on the middle the thinner you go and all open will bow more So maintaining 0,04mm costs money and time Doesn’t mean the thermalright it’s not good but the tolerances could be more open plus it’s produced somewhere to be cost effective

[@Yuenix]

STEVE AND MIKE AND THE GAMERS NEXUS TEAM THANK YOU!! Thank you guys so much 😊😁

[@dil6969]

This is genuinely very helpful. Currently running a 12700k with an NH-D15 and the thermals are decent, but I'd like to have a little more headroom and consistency between core temperatures. The thermal paste spread indicates the same uneven pressure you've observed. Gonna give the thermalright unit a go. It's sure as hell a lot cheaper than using a beefy aio.

[@knightsljx]

based on articles on Toms Hardware and FPS Review, TR's plate came to market in April 2022, earlier than TG's plate that only came out ~May. They were likely developed in parallel. I would like to see Gamer Nexus make this distinction, and not have viewers believe TR's product is a clone. It is not

[@Zanpaa]

They don't suggest it's a clone at any point, neither do they talk about release dates.

[@5federline]

Actually it was in my country market since last year. They fulfill asian market first before to other region. It's like Lian Li O11D case & Strimer. You can find a lot of brands that make similar kind of products like XPG, Phanteks, etc but only Lian Li got the spotlight. It's not been patented by the 1st manufacturer i think, so everybody can manufacture or design the similar product with some modification & put their own brand name.

[@mjc0961]

Can you provide a timestamp to when in the video that GN said anything that would lead viewers to believe TR's product is a clone? SPOILER: You can't, because they didn't.

[@miladesn]

Its not even a clone. They are clearly different if you see mike's take.

[@rulik006]

True

[@ArmadaOne]

I really like how you show how to properly mount these frames in your videos since most testers simply wouldn't bother with that and just give the results to make the video short. You always explain exactly what you are doing and how you do it in every test and really dive deep into what the results shown in the test actually mean which is great. This is exactly why I love your videos and why I'm subscribed and have notifications turned on so I immediately notice when I new video is posted when I open KZbin in my browser which is several times a day.

[@bigbadspikey]

Thermalright is a well known for great cooling. I've used the Ultra-120 Extreme back in 2006 and it was great. Kept my old Overclocked Conroe Core2duo really cool even without a fan.

[@filiplaskovski9993]

Their thermal pads are pretty good too

[@XenonFenix]

As far as I remember, I saw news on the TR frame announced first before I saw anything on the TG frame. Looking it up, the TR frame was announced on April 21st, while the TG frame was on the April 24th (video on Derbauer's KZbin channel). So you cant really say one company copied another. I do prefer the simplistic look of the TG frame but I bought the TR frame due to availability and pricing. Got it on Aliexpress for $9CAD and it took less than a month to arrive. I just tighten the screws a few turns at a time in opposite corners until I felt a "stop". I didn't do anything fancy with 90° turns and such. The frame gave me a -8°C drop when testing with Cinebench R23. I use an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420mm. Edit: I used the frame for my 12900k.

[@kurosumomo]

Through history, plenty of manufacturers copied Thermalright, so this wouldn't be a first.

[@peterhenry2240]

10C is a gamechanging decrease in temps. It can be the difference that allows the 12900k to be run at full load on air, in warm climates without throttling.

[@John__K]

I would insta-buy one of these. My only concern is how much is the risk of damaging the board from the frame pressure against it.

[@Malc180s]

It's pretty much irrelevant. If you're in a hotter climate you'll obviously have to work harder to cool it. Meh. Why would I want to pay more to help people living in warm humid climates? Fuck em.

[@xblur17]

@@Malc180s What nonsense are you talking about? Are you ok in the head?

[@Capnsensible80]

@@Malc180s tf are you talking about? Then just don't buy it, you're not paying more unless you CHOOSE to, and you choosing to or not has 0 impact on other consumers 🤡

[@John__K]

@@xblur17 I think he means for the possibility that mobo companies to include this frame as pre-installed. But as Steve says it literally costs a couple of bucks to make it. Not sure why is he so mad about it.

[@jean-paulpitman2172]

Wow, impressive results for a couple of bucks. I like the PCB contact feedback for easy consistant install. Great product comparison.

[@The_ViciousOne]

I'm kind of surprised... Thermalright isn't exactly an unknown manufacturer (at least in Europe), especially when it comes to CPU heatsinks. When I started building computers in the early 2000's they were one of the top dogs for CPU, GPU, chipset and VRM heatsinks... 🤔

[@ClassicalPan]

I bought a Thermalright cooler for my new build. I initially thought I'd get the Noctua tower that everyone has, but at 1/3rd the price and with better thermal results, Thermalright got my money. And based on GN's testing of these frames, I'd choose Thermalright again. Very impressive stuff.

[@shinefake48]

apparently thermalright is like one of the OG pc cooling product producers, which I always thought it was some unknown brand until recently

[@StormyPrepper]

Thanks for this review. I had to buy this frame because the TG frame was out of stock on most sites, as of 08.12.2022, and the ones on Amazon are selling at $60.00. The Thermalright’s are around $15.00, so big difference here.

[@obsey]

Once Thermalright gets these frames onto amazon at a discount price they are going to sell a bazillion of these!

[@PabzRoz]

I ordered mine off Ebay for $12 and they had free 4 day shipping lol. The one on amazon at the time had 2 week prime shipping and was like $17 I think lol I wasn't beat. This thing is legit though. Been super happy with it. Temps dropped an average of 6C on my 12700K. Zero issues installing.

[@davidlong1786]

The "just enough" thermal paste from Thermalright is also how they do it with their Peerless Assassin 120 CPU air cooler. I thought tube was full but like shown, they give you just enough for one application on the CPU so you better not experiment thinking you can redo if you mess up. Thankfully I was able to make the traditional X-pattern right as the plunger hit bottom.

[@reubenmorris487]

Recently installed one of these contact frames onto my MSI LGA1700 board. Didn't even think to pull out my precision measurement tools... Thanks for the heads up.

[@PaulieDC]

I used the Thermalright on my MSI Z790 Carbon WiFi with the i9-13900KF and the Noctua NH-D15 cromax and it works superbly. I first bought the Thermal Grizzly but had to return it... for the thick MSI Carbon WiFi, the screws were too short, I needed the Thermal Grizzly to have slightly deeper countersinks. Thermalright works great!

[@MuckyxD]

YES!!!!! I was waiting for this comparison... I actually have the Thermalright one on my i5 12400F OC'ed with a ROG B660 board, and also on a 12900K, and it has been working great...

[@chronicalcultivation]

I have the thermalright AM4 retention bracket, under one of their PA120 coolers and must say, they're a solid company for how budget friendly they are

[@MetalGeek464]

Same here and agreed. I also have 4 TR fans in my case. No regrets at all.

[@Paul_Sleeping]

They were a great cooling company. The Noctua before the real Noctua took it even further in engineering. Then AIOs almost erased them from existence and Noctua came along. Glad to see them back on the map. The recent cooler review that included one from TR even performed greatly in the rated thermal power range. Hope they will continue to do well.

[@PabzRoz]

Dude the PA120 is the best air cooler on the market right now hands down. Zero competition not even close. I bought one for my dads rig which has a 12600K. Literally has NH-D15 like performance at only $37 on amazon. Idk how Steve hasn't reviewed it yet. It drastically undercuts every cooler on the market while offering nearly identical thermals and quality. Not to mention it looks dope lol. Only difference is the fans are a bit louder but I can live with that for the price. I recommend it to everyone lol.

[@MetalGeek464]

@@PabzRoz This.. My PA120 stomps on the Freezer 34 eSports DUO it replaced in thermals, noise and price.

[@PabzRoz]

@@MetalGeek464 Oh yeah of course lol it's not even a comparison. Blows it outa the water. And I see people all the time still buying coolers like that and the Scythe coolers and I'm like damn bro if only people knew! There's just nothing on the market right now that comes close to it's value. We need more KZbinrs to talk about it lol It boomed after Hardware Canucks reviewed it but that's about it. It's a "if you know you know" thing lol.

[@VikasGupta-bx5qv]

I went with the Thermalright which I purchased after trying to undervolt my 12700K but running into blue screen issues. Without the undervolt I was seeing immediate +100C temps when testing with Cinebench R23. I removed and repasted the cooler to ensure the contact was good. After installing the Thermalrite my temps are down to 90C 10 minutes into the same run. Its been 2 months since I installed it and I have not had a single blue screen. Thanks for posting this video as it convinced me to give the Thermalright a try and ultimately saved me 20 USD or so.

[@ImnotgoingSideways]

I installed this frame 2 days ago and found zero improvement... BUT! I'm glad I bought some pressure paper at the same time. After checking with a couple of sheets, I found that my waterblock (EK Quantum Mag) had a bump in the middle of the cold plate. It was machined to their regular convex curve, that was expected. What wasn't expected is that the point where the machining reached the center had a little spike of material left behind when the cutting tool was released. After giving the cold plate a light lap&polish, it finally tested to a 12c to 16c drop overall. I don't have a proper lab, so I assume +/-5c accuracy is the best I can get. Going from near constant thermal throttling to 85c to 95c is huge success to me. The pressure paper can be expensive. Amazon sells "sample" size 4x2.5 inch for $9-US. I bought the Fujifilm LW and MS samples (350-1400psi and 1400-7100psi respectively). The bump showed up in the MS paper, LW was too sensitive. It's worth being sure all variables are accounted for.

[@HellGatefr2]

Actually very interesting comment, thanks for sharing

[@BerdDog1392]

Ditto what the other commenter said. This is a fascinating example and would be cool if GN could dig into this a bit more. I just got here after watching one of their more recent videos about making a "perfect CPU cooler". Out of curiosity, which CPU are you using and what was running that resulted in thermal throttling? Hopefully that's only happening when running a benchmark of some sort.

[@ImnotgoingSideways]

I'm using a 13900K CPU at stock-clock. The throttling was most obvious during Cinebench tests. But, the main reason I was messing with this was that many games would glitch out when it throttled and often CTD. I started logging temperatures and clock speeds using HWINFO64 a few months ago to see what was going on. City Skylines II, Baulder's Gate 3, Satisfactory, and Factorio were nearly unplayable until after the lap&polish.

[@BerdDog1392]

@@ImnotgoingSideways Gotcha and thanks for sharing the info! Kudos on figuring that out and fixing it.

[@mattl1807]

The difference in machine precision between TG and TR and the fact that they gave essentially the same results is a testament to the effectiveness of thermal paste in filling the gaps.

[@marsfb88]

And Intel's own spec gives the LGA1700 socket about a whole millimeter of tolerance...tbf at that point Thermal Grizzly's 40um of tolerance seems like overengineering

[@jlrebor2626]

tbf that means that the solution from tg its an overpriced one and doesnt need to be that good, like that thing is 4bucks, but thats the seller price, good knows how much they rlly cost to make

[@noneofyourbusiness4294]

@@jlrebor2626 it was explained in the video where the price comes from. Producing in Germany isn't cost effective, which isn't a secret to begin with. Personally, I'd go for the TG, just because everyone in the line gets paid fairly due to law. I mean, when I'm building a 2k PC, I don't really care if one single thing costs $35 or $5, and, living in Germany, I can get one in a day, rather than relying on aliexpress etc to be somewhat quick. Oh, and of course, this should have been something Intel should have fixed, not the consumers/3rd party manufacturers

[@Rawiioli]

@@noneofyourbusiness4294 Thermalright via Amazon delivers within 24 hours. :)

[@t045tygh05t]

An item of German manufacture was over-engineered? 😧

[@cyphre]

I'm really hoping to see a future where motherboard manufacturers are introducing this sort of improved design on their own. Or at least include a kit for their higher end boards if there is some sort of Intel requirement to use the original ILM.

[@SoWhat07]

There is a good examples. Like Epyc socket. For desktop manufacturing never going to happen. This is cheap. Even the LGA 1700 mainboard are so expensive. The cheap is desktop socket retention. This is garbage due to bending and degradation. For example bios error 15 in Gygabyte. This is error related to bending. It is very difficult to be simulate. After bending the problem is related to RAM speed. Small and slower ram sticks working. The fastest won't. Bios start cycle and restart without booting.

[@warlikka7571]

Hi Gamers Nexus, I discover your channel and I do appreciate the scientific method you are using. So you owned a new subscriber ^^

[@Apollopayne25]

Thank you for great video. Went for a thermalright one. Temps dropped by 8-10 degrees. Only just moved my server back to Intel. Couldn’t believe the tension on lever arm on original bracket

[@Cheeseypoofs85]

since this frame is metal and is touching the IHS, doesnt it technically create a larger contact surface for the cold plate? i would bet this contributes to at least 20% of the cooling increase

[@frankmjr6571]

You know, that's a great point.

[@Creating_Space]

thank you for showing this option! thermalright seems to be in need of some marketing, they've always made good products in my experience, back to the early 2000s.

[@IK4MS]

I have no idea what's going on over at Thermalright. They have *eleven* different single tower designs currently on the market, and *five* dual tower designs, all of which have multiple variations currently available. None of their products seem to have a semblance of naming convention. I mean what the fuck does "Ultra120EX REV.4 WHITE" even mean? It's not like there was a rev.1/2/3, only an "Ultra-120 eXtreme rev.C". And how do I even know how it compares to the "Venomous Plus"? They both have the same heatpipe setup and similar dimensions... And that's coming from someone who's followed them for a good decade. Anyone else would have *no* idea where those names even come from.

[@RafitoOoO]

@@IK4MS yeah, their products and naming schemes make it seems someone comes to the office and says "good news everyone, I designed a new cooler" and everybody is like "aight let's manufacture it"

[@iblizt316]

@@IK4MS AFAICT Ultra 120 Ex rev.4 is an evolution of their original TRUE/TRUX line. While Venomous Plus is an evolution of Venomous X. Their main difference is Venomous have "pressure bracket", basically it allows you to put more pressure (DANGEROUSLY more) at the center. They also have different fin design, not sure how much it mattered though. I used Venomous-X in my X58 build way back in 2010/11 and I found that if I over tightened the "pressure bracket" then Windows only detected 2 sticks of ram out of 3 installed. Overall still a great product but not as great user experience as what you get from Noctua. Btw, back then Thermalright were not as cheap, in fact I believe they were a premium brand. Also their heatsink did not come bundled with a single fan (they didnt offer fan), while Noctua was the opposite (offered premium fan only and not heatsink/fan). So I used to pair Thermalright heatsinks with Noctua high pressure fans during wolfdale to gulftown era.

[@Fragil1ty]

Just bought one in the UK after seeing this video, this is just amazing, no ifs, ands or buts. Cannot wait to test it out and get better temperatures, any help is always appreciated, especially on the 12900k.

[@vipeshadowv2571]

I was concerned about the installation process but this video saved my worries saving it to watch when I build my PC later !!

[@valismind]

I got mine from Amazon for $19.99 CAD (and it came with thermal paste). I paired it with the NZXT Z73 360MM AIO, and actually used the paste that came with the bracket. It works amazing on the i9 12900KS, 25C when idle, 48C when in game, and the highest I got it was 78C on cinebench!

[@HunterVaughanMusic]

What was your application method for the thermal paste?

[@elmervelazquez3549]

Do you live on antartica?

[@Styphoryte]

Much love for this video, I have a i5-12600K and I was having idling temps going as far up as 40-58 sometimes down to an average of 40-45 degrees so at least my temps aren't fluctuating like crazy anymore. I was thinking of switching to an AIO cooler but I don't see the need because all I do is game and watch TV on my PC anyways... Again thank you! Never realized this was such a problem with Intel's chips.

[@PinkLyfe69]

Thanks for the vid guys, this paired with a new aio lowered my temps by half lol

[@snaplash]

I prefer the bottoming install for the thermalright frame as well. TG's 1/4 turn spec is awfully close to not compressing the pins past intel's .2mm contact height variance. (depending on screw thread pitch) If you have a couple pins sitting .2mm low, and you only compress them .19mm, you may end up with marginal or no contact on the low pins. I'm planning a new build, and will definitely use this frame.

[@MrMagichobo21]

It would be cool if Buildzoid did a video going into more detail about the memory overclocking differences between the frames

[@drazen4368]

That´s how proffesional reviews are made. As always, a pleasure to watch (even i dont own an intel processor)

[@amdguru34]

Thank you! This video was very useful to me as I bought my son a 12900k. I decided to go with the TG frame since I use TG Kryonaut. Thanks again!!

[@Hsiss]

Important thing when using these frames: Thermal paste will get in the gap between cpu and frame, so when it dries your cpu will be glued to frame. Be very careful to not drop your glued cpu onto socket when taking frame off.

[@courier3567]

If this is happening you are putting too much thermal paste on, you don't need that much a little goes a long way.

[@Danielw597]

damn how much paste you using bro

[@TheRealName7]

​@@Danielw597he's using an entire syringe lmao

[@c0rnd0g_19]

After testing my new i5-12400 system to make sure everything worked properly, I took it back apart and installed a frame. Definitely seeing lower temps so I can attest to its effectiveness as you proved. It really makes me want to take it back apart and lap the CPU (remembering the old AMD Duron days)...

[@Apollopayne25]

Are you using stock Intel cooler? I just ordered a TR one

[@c0rnd0g_19]

@@Apollopayne25 No, I've got a tower cooler on it (don't remember the brand)...

[@amithyel]

I find that incredible luck to came across this video -and the mentioned other video- just few days before I build a completely new PC. Only the CPU missing (ordered from US). I'll come back with an update.

[@uss-dh7909]

Bro never came back... :c

[@ZZstaff]

Good information, thank you very much.

[@BenWillock]

"Thanks Steve" will never get old. Just like "Out of the box thermals!".

[@Broxerlol]

I would've happily bought the Thermal Grizzly frame if I could have found it in stock. The Thermalright frame dropped my 12700k temps about 6c overall but it tamed my hottest cores by more than 10c. I also lapped my IHS and it had a big dip in the middle. I'm very happy with it.

[@ryanvandoren1519]

How scary was the lapping process? I have an itx build that desperately needs cooling, but I won't be able to afford another cpu if I destroy it.

[@falubii9712]

@@ryanvandoren1519 if you can’t afford it then I would not recommend lapping

[@ryanvandoren1519]

@@falubii9712 oof, thanks

[@Broxerlol]

@@ryanvandoren1519 it wasn’t bad at all. Just laid some sand paper on my granite counter and added a little water. Just take your time, use a solid flat surface as a base and apply even pressure.

[@frozenthirdyear]

I'm doing a 12700k build as well with an Arctic Freezer 34 Duo. Is using this custom bracket (and most likely voiding MB warranty) worth it if I have no interest in overclocking and live in a decently temperate place (Switzerland)? It's my first build and I'm still afraid of breaking stuff and being SOL if I do anything that voids warranties.

[@da1geek534]

No surprise, but like the rest of your videos this was incredibly informative. As someone who spent a ton of time and money to get the performance/temperature balance of the 12900k under wraps, this will be super helpful. Thanks Steve and crew!

[@Jesus-ps4db]

Can u help me bro

[@jdocgaming474]

Did you know that as of today (10/24/22) the Thermaltake version is at $60.00 on Amazon while the Thermalright variant is priced at $12.90. I really wanted to support Thermaltake and had considered it even at say, $40 but at this price, and the fact that I also like the pad/bumper solution on the Thermalright version, I think I will just save $47 and get the Thermalright variant for a Raptor Lake CPU. Thanks for the tutorial guys!

[@DeSinc]

I don't really know how these got thought up honestly when four washers under the official intel bracket is actually safer and easier to apply and gives the same results. I'd love if you showed the washer mod compared to these frames. It's really simple, four 1mm thick nylon washers under each corner of the official intel bracket, which has been shown to get the same thermal reduction as these brackets. The advantage of this method is the pressure is always totally even. Screwing the intel bracket down harder doesn't change how it's positioned on the board, the bracket always sits the same way on the board regardless of screw thread tightness, unlike this bracket design which entirely relies on the pressure being very even.

[@Huakeen]

Exploit master has spoken o7

[@soulshot96]

I think Derbauer already went into why these frames are more advantageous vs the washer mod in a video on his channel.

[@Simlife101]

The washer mod can have the nylon washers wearing out and causing uneven distribution over time

[@kaiserped]

Thermalright has some CPU coolers that I used and like it. Glad to hear they are still doing good.

[@matthewmartinez8050]

What an informative video - thank you

[@techead23]

Good thing I looked at this. I bought the thermalright and didn't really think about the being that precise with the mounting

[@kimborch8547]

Total height variance may not change the mounting pressure. It is the height from the bottom of the frame and up to the bottom of the hole where the screws are located that matters. You could even have 10 identical height frames, but have 10 different mounting pressures depending on how precise the holes are made.

[@DaveFeelsRight]

Thermalright makes good shit. Super underrated.

[@Drinkyoghurt]

Not underrated in Europe. In fact I'm kinda surprised that the Thermalright Macho or True spirit isn't reviewed yet. I have a Macho on my 3600 and it's dead silent. The 140mm fan spins down to 300rpm which no other cooler can do.

[@Mr.Morden]

Thermalright isn't a big name in PC cooling these days but there was a time when they ruled the CPU heatpipe tower market. They were the Noctua of that era. I still have a Thermalright Ultima 90 tower cooler installed on an old PC running an i5-3570S and 1050TI, originally it was on a Core 2 Duo build.

[@puciohenzap891]

@@Mr.Morden And they looked better than Noctua too!

[@Mreticket1]

I have the TG on my i9, the info on how to set it was extremely good, and it seems to work... Temps seem to be consistent and I have had no issues so far...

[@oktc68]

Thank Steve & Mike for this assessment and installation guide. I initially saw the TG option but after seeing this I figured that the Thermalright solution might have a slight edge. (Sorry Debauer, I'll still be using your excellent Kryonaut paste tho') I assume these are still relevant with 13th Gen specially if using a Z690 mobo? Installation guide was first class.

[@josephshaff5194]

I think as metal bends the resistance changes. So if a trace in the chip is bending that may occur. More likely they would move closer than designed to be and a field would establish itself. As that seems to be the current issue in PCB Design. Gentlemen. Awesome work!

[@xanid]

Didn't they just get sponsored by thermal grizzly's frame??? LMFAO

[@Peter_F300]

Ohhh well... you never stop learning. I am from berlin and wasn't even expecting Thermal Grizzly to be a local company. Good thing I have to watch your channel first to get that... Thanks.

[@sarcof3459]

Fair reporting, well done Nexus.