Games Workshop Do NOT WANT 40K Gaming in Their Stores - But Why? A 40K RANT.

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[@DarkKnightCuron]

LIKES FOR THE LIKE GOD. COMMENTS FOR THE COMMENT THRONE.

[@robertbritt3129]

Liked and commented(my own comment only). Check

[@robertbritt3129]

Check

[@samuelmathis3483]

Similar vein, but a lot of bowling alleys in my town have shorter lanes to keep league's out. They hog the lanes, dont rent equipment, and dont bring kids to blow cash in the arcade

[@jensablefur155]

I've posted this before but I still remember the anecdotes of my friend who used to work in a non-GW hobby shop about how manic Saturdays were when parents would just leave these bored 8-10 year olds there for an hour or two with £5 of pocket money in their wallets while they go and get their shopping done. It sounded awful. Once these kids bought a booster pack of yugioh or something they'd be there with no entertainment and just be milling around, peering over people's tables and pressing their faces against display cabinets of minis until mum came to pick them up again. It is a shame that games aren't allowed in GW stores at all but at the same time it's not fair for a couple of 20 year old shop assistant nerds to be herding excitable kids around between making sales on a busy weekend. I think there is a balance between "Free Childcare" and "No games allowed EVER" but it's a delicate one.

[@richardmullens4707]

And those kids who only had £5 pocket money turned into the adult wargamers who now spend £100 at a time. Imagine if all those kids hadn't been allowed to stay an hour in there watching the games being played. Would they even be in the hobby now, as adults?

[@totalCoolerUsername]

Yeah young unattended child, call social services, done

[@foulplay99]

Me and my wife go to our local GW store every Saturday to do hobby stuff, been going since 2018 or so, manager is great, other customers are great. The manager used to run an under 16s Saturday afternoon session until last xmas, and soon realised parents were treating the place like a creche. They would leave 10-15 kids there all afternoon and fuck off to do whatever, instead of staying and supervising their kids. After a while he cancelled it, and told us he was basically sick and tired of being used for unpaid childminding and that the parents and kids spent almost no money in the store either. As for gaming, there are dedicated days for gaming, and the manager sets up different game events for AoS, 40k and Warcry. He sometimes makes up new game rules and scenarios as well, and might tie in a painting competition based on the scenario theme. He likes to keep us all entertained as best he can.

[@richardmullens4707]

​@@foulplay99If you stop allowing the kids to experience it then our hobby will go the same way as model trains. That is dying out (literally) because it has an aging fanbase, it's for the most part too expensive and today's youngsters are not encouraged to even try it out because there's not many places for them to do so. So by all means stop allowing children to experience Warhammer for the first time and discourage them from taking part, see what happens down the line to Games Workshop as a result.

[@ric1194]

​​@@richardmullens4707over reaction much 🤣🤣 miniatures are only growing mate, very nice upward trend. No one is stopping kids playing, but you as a parent stay with them, don't try and justify your shitty parenting because you're lazy.

[@Eddy_Grimm]

The used to be a line in the old rule books that basically said, "these rules are a guideline, if there is a dispute over the rules then talk it out and if you fail to agree then roll a dice and move on." I miss those days.

[@Brissebrajan]

I own every edition core rule book and that used to be among the first part of the rules section, but i havent thought about that part untill now, i just imagined that its still there, even the latest edition. Will have to check the "latest editions 8 - 10" just to be sure =)

[@marrowkaiproductions7053]

It still is.

[@ZontarDow]

North: "GW makes the highest quality miniatures" Bandai: "I sense a disturbance..."

[@manofaction1807]

The Armageddon Campaign lasted from 1991-1995... THAT is your example of the campaign style we were playing at the time. I started with the 2d edition boxed set, and ended with 3rd Edition with Steel Legion, as part of a force of like 20 IG players, and Orks with no less then 15 Ork players. Those games are spoken from in hushed tones and tales of legend and honor of the Regiments.

[@craigzinkta3988]

I reckon one reason they don't have games in my local store (Miranda, Australia) anymore, is because so many parents used to leave their kids in the shop while they went to movies, or hairdressers, or do their shopping for a few hours. Kind of like free child-minding, especially during school holidays. So in a way, I understand that, if I was working in that shop I personally would not like to have the responsibility of being turned into a quasi-child care worker.

[@jensablefur155]

Yeah this is one of my takes too. I had a friend who worked in an independant hobby store and this was such a common gripe that I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned by North and ex-staffers on this channel more. Saturdays it was a regular occurence that they would be spending half the day keeping an eye on unattended kids and dealing with yugioh tantrums and the like. It's not fair for these staff to be in a position where they have a heavy supervisory duty of care over these lads in a retail job. Middle class mums were absolutely the worst for this behaviour. You'd get kids buying a token booster pack and they'd be there for two hours kicking their heels and boredly peering over other people's hobby tables.

[@craigzinkta3988]

Dead right. That's exactly what happened here.

[@thelastredcoat1662]

Back in 1998 - 2001, we simply told parents and kids that no unattended minors under the age of 12 were allowed in the store, due to us not being registered child-minders. Simple as that. I have no idea if that was actually true, official/unofficial company policy, or if it was just how our regional manager wanted us to deal with the issue, but every staff member was on the same page, and it was never a problem.

[@craigzinkta3988]

@@thelastredcoat1662 Perhaps individual not-policy/policy by region/store.

[@Brissebrajan]

that is a problem, but not the main reason gaming tables are gone. With or without gaming tables, the kids are still droped of in gaming/hobby stores. But i understand your point.

[@majingazetto4146]

My opinion, this is a little bit different. I think competitive gaming is playing cards. back in the day, it was unthinkable to release new rules set refigure. No, it’s just a way to sell you a whole new army. For several additions, now, the competitive side of the hobby has already found its way into the living rooms of the world. At home people are taking a look at the meta. If the rules suck in the tournament, they will also suck at home and will sour you on your collected army, so you will always have a reason to buy. Good example, for this are the new Squats. They got people all hyped up to pre-order and create a massive view of missing out just to Nerf them back to oblivion shortly after the codex was released. At least to me, looks like they are playing with this dynamic to hype up something new make it the new meta just to drop it immediately. A nice way to sell a ton of models and clear out your stock before moving to the next thing. And since GW Producing in the UK exclusively as far as I know, They probably Have issues with their stock capacities. It’s just expensive to build a new warehouse, especially when real estate prices are as high as they are now. On top of that with the spiral, they will find a dozen of new ways to make your army obsolete regarding weapon, options or squat configuration by releasing as many rule sets, or rule changes as possible. I think they know exactly what they are doing and the way they deal with the competitive side of the hobby is not bad game design, but a calculated business decision. And about people in the store. I think you do have a point, but I also think they have another thing in mind. I think it is just easier to hire people if they don’t have to learn how to play a complex game first. What they want is sales people who push models. They don’t want any discussions about rules or any drama in the store they just need personnel to stock up the store and sell boxes. That’s at least my view on it.

[@kenupton4084]

As of 2023 the average cost of retail space in the US was about $18 per square foot (depending on region/location). That means the roughly 4×6 space needed for a single gaming area is was about $432 a month. That pretty much sums up why instore gaming will be gone very soon. It really comes down to the cost of keeping a retail space free of any sales product. That space could be better used to place a double sided shelf of product. Edit: i just looked at the average rates at several areas in my own home state. The average across the state is $244 per square foot. The city i recently moved out of was $13.38. The next largest city to the south was $12.26. 5 hours away in Manhattan its $188!!

[@Toastergod44]

I think what you’re not considering here is that seeing people actively engage with the product and having a great time with their friends is probably a better selling point than additional product placement and the over-aggressive sales tactics GW is known for.

[@MrNeunauge]

Just sell them drinks a game takes about 2 hours lots of time to consume.

[@jeagerblackpaw2922]

Used to be GW encouraged interesting rules.. publishing optional ones in things like the journal (for those that remember it) usable with permission from the opponent... same with special characters, They were often rather broken (and GW knew it) so were an optional part to enable fun games rather than playing just to win. And of course encouraged interesting conversions with not having models for some units, and providing ANY part of ANY model on demand from mail order. Victory points and massively competetive play... I really don't recall many people caring about it in the late 90s and early 2000s, they existed all the way back to second ed at least... but 99% of the time it was always a 'blast each other until one side is off the table.'

[@JakkoThePumpkin]

I'm confused, I have two Warhammer shops local to me and I'd say at least 60-70% of the times I've been in them there's been games going on, but I keep hearing about this "no in-store gaming" rule. Are all the stores near me just disobeying the guys at the top or is this more of a generalisation than a rule?

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

I see games of things like Kill Team, Warcry, Combat Patrol etc. in mine but not full 40k/AoS games, maybe that's what's being referred to.

[@wisecrack4545]

@@khaosbydesignuk946 Yeah, I can see stores playing Kill team because it tends to be more narrative and not super competitive, and from what little I've seen of Warcry its basically the same thing for Fantasy. Combat patrol isn't a competitive game either because they are all pre-determined forces for each faction based on the contents of their starter boxes. Players aren't able to alter or min max their forces.

[@middleagepeasant2291]

I don’t have a full blown story to tell you but I have an interesting person I can tell you a small bit about. There is a man at my local game store who maims his models in frustration and fixes them later. I’ve watched one of his imperial fists roll bad and get wiped, and the first thing he did was pick it up, act like he was going to put it aside but instead squeezed hard enough to snap the arm in two. That same model comes back a week later and has some kind of mechanical claw where half the fore arm and hand once were. Many of his models have random bits and some even have what I could only describe as “stab wounds”. It looks like he just slashed at them with a box cutter to punish them? It is strange and his temper in public is not great but I think he is a good guy and has never lashed out at anyone except his miniatures.

[@steevyos94]

Better his models take the ire, than somebody else I suppose 😅

[@RolandoRatas]

anger issues = emotionally unstable

[@kenupton4084]

Lol I was locally known for spiking my Devistators into the floor. I would blame myself for saying "miss"ile launcher instead of "rocket" launcher because, honestly, it seems to make an actual difference in my die rolls lol. I once got so angry I just put one in my mouth and started chewing. Always the Devistators... Curse those MISSiles

[@totalCoolerUsername]

Lol should rather play Iron Warriors 😂

[@sonicwingnut]

I dislike the manchild aspect of this but kinda like the repair one haha - recently I spilled an entire bottle of Tamiya extra thin on a recon marine I was converting for 30K, so when I built his replacement I gave him an "oath of moment" (purity seal) which was to avenge his fallen brother who was wounded by a melta bomb. Later when I went back to where I left the original model to melt, most of it was intact and just the head had lost a ton of detail, so I swapped it out for an eliminator head with a rebreather and two bionic eyes to represent his injuries.

[@mightylad2197]

Games are the reason I bought models. When I went into the store, I thought "You're giving me gaming space, in return, I'll buy models and paints on my way out." Without that incentive, why would I even go to GW? I can get things cheaper online, or off a buddy's 3D printer.

[@craigzinkta3988]

Another point is, we all seem to live in the land of libel now. What happens when somebody loses their shit and ditches something across the room that wacks somebody and theres a blue on, so much to the point, theres a public liability? In our workplace laws, the shit rolls downhill fast: and the store worker will be the one ending up neck deep in it.

[@richardmullens4707]

And that's why they don't make Necron Monoliths out of metal....

[@sprutherford1]

In the states as a lgs owner I called the local pd. I had several officers as gamers. They could pick up their children at the store and avoid the abandonment charges or at the pd with said charges and loitering charges on said child.

[@sprutherford1]

Granted it was handled on a child to child basis

[@6dicestudios6]

I went to my local store 4 years ago. They were so nice, they helped me learn the game, helped a mate build and paint his first model. Gave away free models and showed me all their displays. They all told me I can come in anytime to play. Now I went in the new dude said that I shouldn't game in the store, "thats what your homes for" never going their again 😢

[@SparrowwithaMachinegun]

My local Gamesworkshop is so sad now. Clearly just want to sell paint and plastic. And what's the point, they never have what I want on the actual shelf anyway XD Might as well close doors and just be online store imo. Thank god I have an hobby store close by (Cheaper price, friendly staff.... AND YOU CAN PLAY GAMES omg) Makes GM so obsolete now.

[@Steelstorm6]

Germany here - and flabbergasted. There would not be a single reason left to visit a GW Store, pardon, a Warhammer Store if I could not play there anymore. Why... Why would you take a trip into town and buy, excuse me, order a couple of minis they don't have in stock, if I could buy them somewhere else for 20% less?

[@John_on_the_mountain]

Seriously. And its too bad because i love the owner of my local WH store. He is a great guy and i want to support him all i can but its so hard to justify paying full price there. He lets us come and play whatever and whenever we want though.

[@gloriadubois266]

I would give my Grey Knights away if GW stopped in store gaming here in the US

[@skunk12]

Keep me in mind, homie. 😉

[@farplaine]

I’d suggest checking out or setting up a game club. Generally better craic

[@gloriadubois266]

@@farplaine I'm actually working on that, one local spot has no AC and we're in the south the other is non stop politics like it was one of those cable news channels

[@ldewis2]

Thank you for opening my eyes to the games workshop mission statement. I think from now on, if I want to play a competitive wargame, I will collect one that is designed from the ground up to be one and use games workshop models if applicable.

[@helenmcclure]

Interestingly enough my FLGS would not exist if it wasn’t for GW’s no games in store policy. They set up their own gaming store in a cheap temp rental a few years back. They’ve moved twice since. Each time to a larger store & I can tell you the store is rammed at the weekends & holidays with kids, families & adults playing games. I’ve even started buying my stuff from there because, well, 10% off.

[@manofaction1807]

I was there in the glory days when the GW shops were Bastions of legend, Games, and Fun. We had games there that were multi table, and everyone participated. They were standing room only, and between newbies modeling and painting, the theory hammer, the fun builds, and the sales, the shops were second to none when they first came on the scene. The competition they brought to the other game stores that were in the area pushed the limits of imagination, and lead to better gaming across the board.

[@someaussieguy140]

My local GW bends the rules set by the higher-ups. The manager still lets us paint and play in the store. We go in there to play "introductory games"

[@Bomberman-um6qu]

Idk, here in the US some Flgs and Warhammer stores hated having competitive gamers in their stores. They created toxic environments in their stores and drove people away from the hobby. Once GW switched its sales focus from competitive gamers to normal and casual hobbyists everything mellowed out in a positive way. I remember visiting the Warhammer Cafe recently and seeing people off the street come in and be welcomed by hobbyists who were there painting and casually playing. More often than not, you would see one of these people/grandparents/parents come out the store with a starter set for their grandchildren because the people in the store were super nice and the staff was super helpful. They should find a balance to allow games but set up rules to not have people dump there kids unattended and have ways to get rid of toxic players when they get ridiculous.

[@FluteGnome]

Old world is probably the best ruleset they have now. It prioritises casual and fun games over meta and balance.

[@wong40k42]

This is crazy, the pricing of their stuff had went from niche hobby to semi-luxury but they still demand people to approach the gaming aspect of it with shits and giggles?

[@gordonfr333man]

Games workshop is a publicly listed company who's main job is to sell stock and have the wiggly line stay green and go up. The fact that a box of deathwing terminators with 16 models shouldn't cost $400+ AUD and be a speculative resource that manchildren get FOMO over because it's out of print within 3 months is secondary.

[@gordonfr333man]

Just wait and see how fucky the hobby will get once blackrock takes an interest in gw and attaches their rainbow flag agenda as conditions for that sweet sweet unlimited printed fed money.

[@MrSteamtrooper]

My experience with our local GW store, dating back almost 20 years, has been that 90% of the staff play the games with their mates while on duty. When I was a new player and customer to GW I could not get time or a game with the staff to show me the different products or the games on offer, or to learn about the GW products, despite buying hundreds of pounds of models. I was happy to not buy from there and would rather buy direct online as I have done for years now. You may have certain standards as a manager spending your time at the shop dedicated to customers, but that was certainly not my experience as a customer. Some staff had the attitude that it was their only perk to "hang out" with their mates playing the games, instead of behaving in a customer and sales driven profession. I think GW did the right thing for their customers. When I walk into the store now I get customer service instead of the local staff mates "hang out".

[@TheDigitalThreat]

Only took me about 3 months into the hobby till I figured this out! It's a shame too, as I really wanted to get into competitive play when I bought in a bit over a year ago. I quickly realized I just dont have the energy and money to keep up with the game with the amounts both require to be even just average. Never seen a hobby/game system that asks so much from the players/customers just to remain current. I know nobody locally to play and the only local store/group I can find meets on a night i work. So I'm just finishing up the backlog of kits I purchased when i went all in, since I have nobody to casually play with. I probably wont buy any more new kits unless a really good deal pop on ebay from someone cashing out. Motivation has been destroyed.

[@sRich3D]

Recently found your channel and have debated writing in as a past GW employee and 40k player for almost 30 years now. I find your take interesting from the US side of things. When I left GW in 2011 when they switched to 1 man stores this was the push. No playing in stores, only get new hobbyists, get them in the Academy, kick them out the door. Push them to the "big" bunker stores for games. Then they closed all the Bunker stores. So then where do you play? At an LGS...who has discounted product. You will build a relationship/connection with that store and want to support it. Why have a GW store at that point? No doubt you will have the problem of seat warmers who don't buy product or babysitting kids when the parents want to shop but there is still a sense of community and a way to hype people. So from a business side of things it does make a lot of sense to me. As for tournament try hards..its marketing...free marketing. I had plenty of customers that wanted to parrot what the new hot list was and would buy product based on that. Just like online Video games. And this was during the time GW had gotten out of the competitive scene. I really think the only reason they got back in was because of Xwing and Warmachine, there was a few years there they ate GW's lunch in the states with sales. So GW wanted back in...and like you said fail at it, but they wanted that market share. My 2 cents from this side of the pond

[@destyrian]

My local has Kill Team out... I'm in the UK. Sometimes people are playing, sometimes there aren't. I can see why GW doesn't want people gaming in store - new comers may see teens (or sometimes adults) getting over excited and screeching about dice, or a faction being op or just generally getting into the game and forgetting that they are in public. It can be off putting, even to me. I'm a middle aged guy, used to play in GW in the 90's, getting back into the hobby now. At the moment I'm gaging what to start collecting but am leaning towards a Hunter Clade faction that I can also use in an Ad Mech 40k army should I start getting back into that. Anyway, the last few times I've gone to the store to check if they had something I wanted or to get some general advice to plan out my purchases, I didn't get served because the staff were teaching the game or talking to regulars. I mean I get it, but paying customers aren't always willing wait for staff to finish doing those things before they get served and will end up walking out. No money in the till. Having said that, having a game like Kill Team in the store is a good thing I think. People should have the opportunity to check the games out or learn, especially if they are younger. You need a couple of staff members at least to pull that off though. They should always be conscious of people browsing, however. Ultimately you are there to make the company money and sadly, you get a lot of hangers on in GW. It's a fine line to walk but not hard to pull off when you have conscientious staff.

[@sonicwingnut]

TBH I suspect this contention that GW don't allow in-store gaming is bullshit, and what's actually happening is either specific managers or those directly above them are discouraging it as they personally perceive it as detrimental to sales. I wonder if it's regional too, never seen a GW in the north east that didn't allow gaming. My local does, and it's the size of a shoebox (and has been there since the early-90s).

[@richardpatterson4496]

The issue i have with gw doing this is that for many areas a gw store is the only place to game and is the only reason people buy there products. Locally where i am there are just not enough people around to start a gameing group. Distance is to far to realistically meet up more then once a month. After the gw store stopped gameing the people i kept in touch with all said they stopped buying stuff cause what was the point. Luckily i live within train distance of newcastle so started going to the gw store there that still does gaming. However even then its a half an hour to 40 mins train to get in to game. Gw stopping gameing will kill there growth and sales outside of main citys. I know this because i visited the gw store that stopped gameing and asked one of the guys i was friendly with and he said as soon as they stopped gameing there sales took a nosedive and the big buyers, moms, stopped picking anything up as they said sorry we only do intro games now you will need to find somewhere else for your kid to play at. Store is now likely to close.

[@maciejmazur2622]

So much this... I love the miniatures and the lore - i hate the game. I want to just have fun and not having someone trying to table me in the first turn, and the only things he has to say is how my favourite model is crap and not in the meta and i shouldnt be fielding it - and genuinely thinking he is doing me a favour. I never looked at this from that perspective but i totally agree. And this could be fixed by changing the rules to more casual and random ones - tourney TFG's would hate it and all the filthy casuals like me could just have fun playing with their toy soldiers

[@KneeCapHill]

Wish the game war more about narrative and tabletop rpg fun fluffy elements. Make beautifull minis with charming fun rules instead of fixating on win rate% and tournaments

[@jamesbunker7793]

This makes a lot of sense for my local gw. They partnered with one of the college clubs to run a campaign and almost half their gaming space is given over to an ongoing Necromunda campaign. So anytime you walk in there’s usually this big beautiful Necromunda table set up.

[@dominikhupp3989]

I think, GW is cultivating this "competitive comunity" because they learned much from hasbro and magick the gathering. Hype and broken by Design rules makes for small storage space needed and push sales. You dont sell new rulebooks, codices and whole armys to people who want to just roll some dice and push some minis together.

[@winksley1981]

Killed our local gaming here.....plenty of fluffy players can't find a space to play...... Quite something to say that games workshop don't want their own product played in their stores!! And they put the game where it is mate don't try and gaslight us with that....I didn't invent detachments, I didn't write the god awful and untested 8, 8.5, 9 or 10th edition.....I didn't financially weaponise the rules over the last 10 years. I didn't forget about half of my product range when writing a 30k space marine codex..........

[@lilv3966]

My local GW store doesn’t want customers in the store. They’d prefer you order from the website before venturing to the store.

[@wisecrack4545]

He isn't wrong about stores focusing on competitive games over hobby driving away their customer base. I worked in a hobby shop in Australia for 2 years. The boss there was a hyper competitive gamer. Had to be top dog in every gaming system the store ran - cards or wargames. He pushed the competitive side at the expense of all else, didn't like the idea of dedicated hobby days at all. It wasn't something he cared for, and because he didn't care, he seemed to believe that no-one else did (or should) either. Nuked any attempt I made at having regular dedicated hobby days - I wanted at least one a month, think I only managed to get 2 in the entire two years. Both on weekends he was away overseas and I got some rare free reign to run what I wanted - no surprise they were my best events out of the whole 2 years. He also shattered the local 40k community after worming his way into the organizer team for the one narrative campaign that was attempted during my time there (a team based campaign), quickly taking over everything and turning it into yet another competitive event, which is exactly what the majority of club players didn't want. Everyone was looking forward to the original idea, and he ruined it for everyone. Was supposed to last 3 months but only went for 4 weeks before everyone else gave up, as the boss's team had all the store power gamers and was miles ahead of everyone else. Almost the entire club was present when the original team confronted him over it and told them they were very upset over what he'd done, his response was simply 'that's your problem". Everyone heard it loud and clear, store went from seeing 40-50 players showing up for games every weekend down to maybe 4 on a good weekend. The community never recovered whilst I was still working there. I also realized in the last few days before I left that I hadn't played a narrative or even a fun, non competitive game at that store in over 6 years, which was back under the previous manager. Haven't gone back there since. Found another group further north that focuses on the hobby side and plays fun narrative games, and I've never looked back.

[@liamb89]

I have argued with my friend on this. Im a hardcore narrartive gamer, and GW should just release two books.. one being competitive and make to be old school and narrative. Let the customers choose what they want to play.

[@richardowen808]

My local Warhammer shop is still doing introductory games. Don't know if this comes under the umbrella of this argument.

[@randipoling635]

The closest GW store near me has ZERO tables to play at. They have the SMALLEST demo set up, maybe 2.75ft x 1.5ft. The fact that the store is only open from 10-5 doesnt help at all either, no one would have time to come in especially since its closed from like 12-1 for lunch (it says 12-12:30, but ive checked at 12:45, still closed, showed up at 10:15, also not open yet).

[@punk6119]

I find this really hard to believe since they regularly have games and tournaments at the main store in the UK. They've taken over every tournament at major event in the US. They have a giant tournament at warhammer fest. I've met the US tournament manager. They are heavily involved with the competitive scene.

[@jeagerblackpaw2922]

Grand Tournement (at HQ) was a thing all the way back in the early 2000s (was selling tickets for it over the phone whilst I worked there)... But the majority of gaming was not in that vein. We often played hard... but always with the spirit of having a beer and a laugh with mates rather than caring about who won, enjoying the challenge and stories that came with it.

[@punk6119]

@@jeagerblackpaw2922 for sure. I think most games are that way outside of tournaments. That's how I enjoy playing. I just think he's missing that GW does care about the actual game, considering how much they are involved in the tournament scene.

[@dwaynewrighton8547]

No games in stores equates to reduced operating hours and reduced overheads for GW, which means higher revs

[@benjaminnottage6387]

Wooooh. Quick question. When is the next custom space marine video coming out. I finally submitted mine.

[@Genericdruid]

We used to have an entire upstairs bit in the liverpool store with couches and tables. It was dead good and loads of people used it regularly. Now the shops dead apart from people buying kits for kids.

[@jackjenkins5056]

Imagine having the in store games dictate certain events in lore... Almost like a tavle top helldivers style player input

[@jimmyngo2191]

I'm not a WH40k player. I would like to buy some models and play but I don't have any store in the whole country and order something online is expensive and that's the kind of money I don't have. I lured to the scene only because I interested in the lore, the narrative and such. I think you was right about what you said.

[@ravenRedwake]

12:10 I know the managers aren’t keen on the guys who want to “beat them” BUT if you guys as a retail chain had a traveling tournament type thing sort of like how the pokemon video games were where if you got badges for playing North in his store or some highly narrative thing like surviving as crimson fists (500 pts to 1500 pts) against orks, that would be cool and each store would have a seperate event. Might be more trouble than it’s worth, and they do encourage competition between the store owners and from what you and the other former GeeDub people have said, they just don’t care.

[@Anarcho_slimer]

So why the fuck are we paying exorbitant prices for plastic toys, if it isn't to subsidise hobby spaces and community? If gw is just a store then It has no worth to me, there are many stores and most are cheaper than gw.

[@kevinbing783]

My local Warhammer store still has games on Thursday night and Saturday and Sundays. The store manager even did a battle royale with 1 character each. They have just finished a tournament as well. And if they banned store games why can you book a time slot to play even in the head office store in Nottingham?

[@TableTopWolf1984]

My best games of 40k, 3rd-5th edition an warhammer fantasy 7th-8th, were when i just rocked up with whatever models id painted an rolled dice. Im not a competitive gamer, dabbled in it a bit an got bored really fast, so for me now id just rather play grimdark future or fantasy, those games remind me of better times in the hobby

[@owenwhite333]

Growing up playing in store in the late 90's and early 2000's I can honestly say the best games didn't even have points considered and really made the store experience; with staff just deciding addhoc how much of what you had you could use, roughly balancing sides, and when doing points matched games if an army list was too beardy just got banned in jokey fashion after a few plays, guess now with higher prices less easy to keep choping and changing armys but I do miss that type of gaming. Am I old... yes🤣 but who else has fond memories playing in the traveling campaigns such as 'a squig too far'?

[@darko-man8549]

I will say, I really dislike what competitive has done to the hobby. Maybe I am too harsh on GW when I say “they want a mobile game TT” where micro transactions and simple gameplay are the way? The industry has shown what makes the most money and GW want that. So I think I might somewhat disagree that GW as an entity doesn’t like competitive games But it seems now, GW doesn’t even want to make a fluff game, they just have contempt for gaming as a whole - it only exists to push models and if they didn’t have to they wouldn’t. It is true, I do like even fluff armies to have some sense of balance, but now it’s just meta this and that. Yes, it’s easy to say “ah, just go play casual” but it’s very hard to do that when everything is pushed in a competitive way. Take Legends stuff for example.

[@cloraformsgood5340]

Subbed👍 From what i remember is games workshop was always a gaming company and used other companies Ral patha and then citadel to make minis. I thought that the mission statement ( best minis in the world ) statement was put on GW when they went corporate. Either way it doesn't bother me , i rarely play the games but paint the minis almost daily.

[@darkzentai7417]

I would disagree to some point if this wasn’t the game games workshop wanted why are they doing things like meta watch. It seems to be marketing to the tournament scene. They initially releasing armies, overpowered, and then nurfing them six weeks or so later ready for the next overpowered release. Things like games day and the golden Demon have all disappeared they have even changed their name to Warhammer rather than games workshop.

[@northernexile]

Well as I said just because they are doing it does not mean they agree with it or want it - the quality of their rules writing shows you that.

[@konun4852]

the ironic thing about this is when i first started some point in 3rd edd drawn in by a huge narative game where they had a warhound on the table and the battle lines extended to everystore in the area . like actually phoneing in scatter from the basilisks and i was given command of 1 unit of guards men that was when i was drawn in. about a year later got my army and gw themselves took me and a bunch of the regulars up to nottingham for a tornement and got me playing competitively .

[@Frabnoil]

That Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer 40K exist only to sell miniatures isn't new news. In fact, WFB was created SOLELY so people could use the miniatures they already had in large scale groups ( rather than a few at a time for their role playing games), but buy more to use. I daresay The Old World now exists solely to sell WFB miniatures that never sold the first time around to gamers hopped up on nostalgia.

[@The_Entity]

one of the best most memorable experiences i had was when i was a kid, and given two AOS units from someone who gave up on warhammer (was a vampire, skeletons and zombies) i remember taking them into a GW store to ask about them etc, and the guy working there told me all about them, had had a little intro battle with some little lizard dudes. it was brilliant fun. i didnt get into AOS in the end but a while later i went back into the store to just hang out and ask about the other armies and hobbies. the guy worked out i was a bit of a scifi nerd, and played a small game with me with some tyranids and space marines. i ended up buying a whole army of space wolves from that store over the coming year. so yeah, agree. no competitive stuff its not a club house. but little beginner battles with like 3 units to showcase the hobby? 100% should be done. even if you arent a beginner going in there to have one of these mini games shows other potential customers how a game might be played in a fun way.

[@kevinmyers6747]

I haven’t been into a GW store since before Covid, but my local GW was a great gaming and painting hub. It definitely sold products in store, this was in Maryland in the US. I moved down to South Carolina and there’s nowhere to play down here. So I had no clue they were trying to cut gaming out of stores, but it seems so backwards to me. Our local manager would set up cool campaigns for us and escalation leagues. We all bought stuff at our store to support him because he did such a good job at fostering our community. Sad to hear that’s fallen to the wayside😢

[@scarzone9566]

yeah theres only one games workshop where im from and even then its 30ish minutes away, there is a single game table and almost no one really goes in except me and my group of 3. There is another different table top game area and they have a full section of play tables for all sorts of tabletops like 40k & dnd

[@SeanoDragon]

My local used to do a lot of narrative fantasy games, we even had our own lore and special rules. The best thing was about once a quarter we do a “box battle” I think i was about 250 pointsish and we would have a week to build and paint a new box all you had to do was buy in store so they could right it down and make some special rules and work out teams. The best bit was you could use any box yourd bought in the last 3 months as long as you had a receipt from the store 😊 honestly think I played this every time for about 3 years and would have carried on but the store moved and changed from GW to warhammer and shortly came sigma 😢 and then a new manager

[@captainbenzie]

Thoroughly enjoying these videos and have been told this may be the channel to speak to regarding the mother of all endings to my employment with GW? Might be interesting for you to hear - was going to reach out on Discord but the links all appear to be expired. How can I contact you?

[@tonysanna8098]

I can agree with many of the things you have said. I can understand why GW wouldn't want games being run in their stores. But I don't accept that competitive tournament play was driven just by players. And even if it was GW backs it to the hilt now. They coordinate miniature releases/announcements to coincide with major tournaments. They created the Meta to manipulate rules to influence tournament wins and the sale of particular lines of minis. GW monitors competition wins to see whether the game is "balanced" (apparently). They could drive the game towards narrative play easily if they wanted to. They used to, but they don't. Fluffy games means warehouses full of inventory waiting to be sold. A Meta controlled competition means more efficient use of production lines and stocking products that sell. Perfect business sense.

[@martynsouthgate1551]

The problem isn't the game it is the players. The example I would use is Monopoly, when I have played it with my family it's a good couple of hours and no one gets hurt. When I used to play it in the Army, in a FOB, in Afghanistan some games would end in a punch up. Unfortunately as with most things in life rules are made to police the few and not the whole and some people can't handle competitiveness or losing.

[@MrROTD]

Makes sense to me, imagine the liability if some kid gets hurt or whatever because theres no parent around to supervise. I used to play Magic tournements at a comic store, under 16 wasn't allowed without the parent there for obvious reasons. Obviously they wanted to sell more merchandise and the in store games certainly promote sales but its not worth it to get sued over it.

[@manofaction1807]

Absolutely Spot On. The same conversation lead to the single man shops that just pimp product, and the occasional intro game of five Space Marines vs 10 Orks/ Nids. I remember the in store and online conversations that lead to such draconian measures. Thanks WAAC players and MIN MAXers.

[@idiotluggage]

Interesting rant. I got into the game during 3rd edition and never thought about the "narrative" play style, but it is what I liked about the game. I was never a competitive player (lost about 90% of the games I played), so tournaments weren't a big deal to me. Even when I was a Press Ganger, my tournaments were always something fun and not the norm.

[@richardmullens4707]

I find their modern miniatures are often too fragile with thin spindly bits that can very easily break off. In the old days when we were kids (1980s) you could literally flick over a model when it died, but not now. Just picking up a miniature now can cause some parts to snap off by holding it. So they are no longer designed to be kid/novice friendly in that regard, which could be why gaming in store has been removed. Too many breakages of their lovingly painted models and the parents trying the games in store with their kids realise that what was a fairly durable product back in their day is no longer so.

[@user-ue6iv2rd1n]

I don't see it, the sort of kid that can sit patiently delicately painting models and reading rule books isn't going to be man handling them in the first place.

[@sonicwingnut]

Seems weird this because my two local GW stores I visit semi-regularly (Newcastle and Darlington UK) seem to always have games on the go on nights and weekends and definitely seem to encourage it. The night that Newcastle's store does a later finish is usually absolutely buzzing whenever I pop in after work. It's defo not just intro games either as I see regulars in there all the time.

[@lloydtancred]

Stopped buying models years ago, but even then their was plenty of competing models & games, why would anyone ever play only games workshops stuff is beyond me, I had stacks of Games Workshop magazines at one point.

[@jjaarr3208]

This video was actually informative, and outside reveals about new models and rules there's not a lot of that in 40k these days. Your experience shows. Now if you just get over your bitter aversion the the best of all space marine chapters, Vika Fenryka, this channel could really take off.

[@adamduffield7782]

The biggest problem with balance is it totally went downhill after 5th edition, because GW got rid of army. Building structure, ie havibg to have acommander and 2 troop choices before anything else, then you add elites, heavy support etc but only to the points value of the force your building. Afyerthey dropped that and you can bring whatever ie a army of just tanks or imperial knights, balance went straight out the window.

[@seppingtondestamina9398]

My local GW store has 40k/ aos stores every thursday evening, and they are set to expand that soon.

[@seppingtondestamina9398]

2nd store = games, obvs.

[@Raygun9000]

Long before tournaments were even viable we had min maxers and power gamers. I'm not sure this influence soured the gaming space. It's upto the managers and staff to cultivate the communities that serve them best. Those communities will look after themselves.

[@matthewbull3688]

Although I agree that GW aren't striving for a balanced and competitive wargame, how do you explain their continued focus on meta watch? They've said they want to keep army win rates between 45-55% and use tournament results to adjust armies to keep within these bounds? Further, meta chasing drives sales. Competitive meta chasers are absolutely a worthwhile target audience. I'm just a pleb, but I think the removal of gaming in store is simply to reduce risk exposure. I.e. removing something attention grabbing that might mean you miss theft. Gaming in store doesn't necessarily translate to immediate sales and may deter sales if you have particular customers hanging around in store that might drive away potential customers.

[@thrrax]

"Here, buy these plastic figures and these paints and paint the plastic." "Umm, but I'm not good at painting plastic figures and I don't want to paint the plastic figures" "Ok, here's some rules and some lore that you can use to play with your plastic and re-enact epic adventures from the lore." "That's nice, the rules and the lore seem fun. We can even have competitions. So, am I now in the hobby?" "If you don't paint the plastic, no. Also, if you play competitively, you're not in the hobby." "But if I don't have the rules and I can't play competitively, I won't just buy the plastic and the paints so I won't play just for fun. I can buy airplane models or other games." "No, this is the plastic you are looking for."

[@TheSorrowOfTheReaper]

If they really do this globally, they will not see another cent from me. I always loved playing KT or Warcry with friends in the store, I even made a bunch of new friends by teaching random people how to play and giving them short introductory games. I guess I could manage hosting games in my living room, I have some terrain and a battlemat, but still, that would suck.

[@BlastbeatsBoltguns]

I've recently picked up the 3rd Ed. rulebook, Orks, Imperial Guard, and Space Marines codexes and the Armageddon supplement from eBay. As the Snakebite tribes say, da old ways are da best.

[@terranaxiomuk]

I liked the rules up to 6th/7th Armies were more unique in how they functioned. They were good in their own way. Now gw are balancing the game the same way video games are balanced. Round and rouns in circles forever tweeking based on whatever the competitive sweaters jump onto.

[@Justin-mp2il]

You are spot on - BUT why does GW then NOT continue to promote, support, develope beer and pretzels Warhammer??? If they are so against competition why don’t they continue to promote and provide narrative style rules?? Instead ppl like One Page have to try to do it. Why doesn’t GW do this? I’m new to WH and the game as it is now is too competitive and too complex to noobies. I’d much rather get into it with a much simpler rule set for beer and pretzels play! You would get more ppl into the hobby if they did.

[@MrAskmannen]

The only warhammer store in oslo doesnt have the table space for anyone to play 40k, at best two people could play kill team.

[@taten-jinmu718]

My local stores only do learning days. A couple times a month. My flgs does weekly, but you can only play small games. Nothing above 1k and they frown at you for pkaying out a 1k game.

[@Teyan0n]

my local gaming blub runs three tiers of games, competitive, casual, and beginner where people can feel how they want to develop their playing side of the hobby. We regularly have 10-15 games on the go every Friday. I happened to mention I was attending these nights when speaking to the store manager of our Warhammer store and he was very dismissive about it. Not rude or anything but just was more interested in talking to me about my models and how I was painting them etc. Nice to have the two alternatives I suppose.

[@Ayatron34]

Why did they get rid off the big communal games they'd have on special occasions? Hell they used to have it every saturday. Bring a troop choice/battleline unit and join in. It's impossible to be competitive then and the stores were full.

[@larrysilvers8134]

North I don't think there is any Games Workshop stores in Australia or ever been. For as long as I can remember it's always local game stores selling GW stuff.

[@John_on_the_mountain]

The owner at my local WH store lets us come in and play 5th edition with 3rd party, 3D printed models lol. Even played Battletech there lol. And I realize how lucky i am in that Idaho apparently has a very large WH community.

[@BuckNuttage]

Games Workshop hates their customers. There's so many better games out there that can be played.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Interesting take on the game. I have never heard of anyone playing it like an RPG. It has always been a tactical dice roller with figs. Maybe if Warhammer actually produced an RPG module instead of just numbers and tactics? With Wotc and Hasbro going down, someone needs to fill the gap. Warhammer could fill that gap, if they played it right.

[@seanm7349]

Rules lawyers and rule breakers began the process of killing this game way back in 2nd edition. I saw it go into overdrive in 3rd edition and I noticed the meta-chasing in its' infancy. BA's were the OP chapter back then. When I started a new game, Warmachine, these same killjoys found it the third year it was out and thoroughly destroyed that game.

[@brenden1477]

Pfft there is no gaming in australia outside of clubs and tournaments now, in my area anyways, my local games store is lucky to see more than 2 people in store doing anything a week, it’s honestly just free babysitting for an hour now, and lets be real the price in aus is literally insane.

[@nikot.9920]

Balance is key. Competitive play can't control everything and narrative play can't run everything. If GW learns that the space will be a better one all around

[@patrickcleary2305]

They've already mostly stopped gaming in Australia for the most part. They started to stop doing it for a few years now. What's worse is that we have no official tournaments at all and very few miniature store where gaming is the norm so there are very few places to even play the game at all.

[@willofdeath]

I have started to think that they also don't want to sell models in the stores. Not a joke. The stores are expensive to rent and run, need staff and utilities etc. It is much, much cheaper to sell at trade price to third party retailers and run mail order service from a warehouse. even the online store is not great for GW as it has a small number of models/order. The Warhammer stores are to get new players interested in the models and games, show them that it is easy and fun to play with friends and of course sell them a starter set for an army and a hobby kit. Then they will be better directed to the online store (they will be shown how to do this in the store...) After a short time, they will try to set up games with other kids at school or friends and might even find a local hobby club that meets in a church hall, or community center. Then learn about discounted model sites like element games. and even some small tournaments...

[@ShaneEversole1682]

This has been true for a long time. When they dropped the indexes that was the time to get out of the book mayhem and they went right back to it.

[@Admiralkirk95]

I don't go to an outright GW store, btw I livein canada. But it is a store that seels alot of different things, just GW products make up abut half the store. They have a 40k night every tuesday and assuming no event is going for a particular game, and you are respectful they'll let ya walk in and play a game in the side area where the tables are. I see parents come in with kids sometimes, either for themselves or seeingif their kids will likeit. Even had a dad and his son check out a game while we were playing. I've never seen this "Drop your kid off and leave them there" type of idea though. Maybe it's just this particular store doesn't have problematic people. But they don't seem to actively stop people fromplaying. They have a game night pretty much every day, and their saturdays and sundays have alot of events too. Maybe it's just a UK thing? I also understand there are just plain bad players and from marketting point of views it makes the game look bad. Having people get angry and all that. Once again at my store we don't have people raging. Nothing like full blown screaming or throwing models or anything. At worst so fart I saw a guy quit out of a crusade amongst a group on the game night cause his Imperial guard just could not make anything work and he fell behind in the crusade. He was mad, but not loud mad and said he would likely sell his guard. As for competetive ruining the game. I think GW is freaking out. Nintendo tried its damndest to keep Smash bros far away from competetive. Any official tournaments were shut down, and they never supported any attempts to make a competetive scene. Only once they got to..... smash 4? I think did they finally relent and begin to support the idea for big events. And the game is still big, it lives from a very competetive community. Don't get me wrong, there are some players who literally cannot not play competetive and take it way too seriously. But that's gonna happen with literally anything. There's always fanatics or super competetive people. I'll admit I don't want to be competetive, I just want to have fun and play people. The group I play is generally fun and knows that game night is for fun or testing ideas. And events at the store are more serious. Wishmore people were understanding like that. I don't have a problem with just wanting to win. Winning is fun, but it's the people who ONLY want to win. GW having a bad track record at balancing though is stupid. Even in casual you can feel some armies are just plain better and some are weaker. Wanting to have fun is fine, but when your army is so bad that even in casual you suffer is not acceptable.

[@squirlking2]

Players should just grab friends and play. Make your own reasonable rules and kitbashes custom units and go bonkers. My buds and I tweaked mtg rules for us to casually play back in middle and highschool and had a blast. If you got a bunch of friends and you all wanna play for fun make up whatever rules you want. This can go for Warhammer, mtg, d&d, or whatever.

[@samus17]

Not a smart decision. Only reason me and my friends have official GW models is because of their 3D printing policy for in-store games (which I agree with, although I think they should ease off on small bits, but w/e). If they don't have in-store games, what's my incentive to give them money and not just 3D print full models?

[@Trauson]

I've recently visited a store and yeah they had no tables no nothing maybe to showcase some models but it was ridiculous, i had the GW guy on my ass all the time and was difficult to even browse by my own..Like always... So imagine if you have 2 guys playing and you need to be aware that people might just come and check on them... Idk but .... I rather stay away from official shops, they are cringe overall and they will try their hardest to shill you anything that you might just barely sniff.

[@totalCoolerUsername]

Guys, if you only play grey minis of course you're not a really into it

[@bobdole8830]

Because they only care about maximizing profits and sustaining gaming tables and leagues or tournaments is expensive. That is why every single person who buys from GW (online or locally) is actively harming the community. FLGS are what allowed GW to become the company they are today. FLGS are the ones keeping the game alive, providing expensive play space, usually for free. They are the ones you should support.