Games Workshop is Sorry About the Votann

[@Adept24]

The first apology I remember them doing was in a White Dwarf years ago, it was for the Virus Grenade in second edition and could wipe out an entire army before the game had started (it was like a stratagem used at the start) but they asked you to tear up the card and not use it.

[@aylard]

I was there, the day GW apologised... Sorry just association haha

[@ironbomb6753]

Lol, yup, I lost virtually all my ork hoard to that virus bomb first turn (if I remember correctly). It was shocking and not fun at the time, but now it's hilarious 👍😅

[@SoB413]

Lol...Pay to win GW apologizes for releasing a broken army and sell millions worth of them😂👍 totally believable🤫

[@Dan_1348]

Wasn't around for that, but remember reading about it in my brothers stash of old white dwarfs!

[@jack-a-lopium]

Well, after you get a release of the squats you gotta make sure you 'wipe out'...

[@anoriginalzero3107]

I bought the launch box to split with a friend, like you I really enjoyed the way the codex was written like a sci fi novel! I reckon at some point Black Library is going to drop the twist that the Votann are actually surviving Men of Iron who engineered the modern day Kin to basically be a slave race in a "can't perceive the hand that controls them" sort of way.

[@poiz921]

Well they kind of are. It is established they follow the decisions of giant A.I. cores, even though they are slowly going data-corrupt.

[@ironbomb6753]

The Sisters weren't made popular, they always were, despite no attention from GW for all those years. The update and new models are simpley awesome and I'm glad so many others find them cool as well. 👍

[@ryane.3539]

Just decided to finally give 40K a try and listened to about a dozen lore videos for different factions. As soon as I heard the SoB I loved them and picked up the patrol. Painting them now.

[@ianhendrie2828]

I believe he said *remained popular, proving your point

[@optiondezzo1513]

gw never updated SOB until recently because for 20 years, they claim that female miniatures won't sell. same thing about dark eldar. notice that eldar, despite being a popular xenos faction, never got their new plastics until recently. same reason.... they contain female models.

[@jenvas]

Now we just need the orders to be as differnt from one another as the SM chapters are. Not just different colors, but special helmets and gear and such.

[@doejon9424]

It's true ! You'd hardly run/ran into *anyone* playing them. It's not just made up. Even at conventions.. rarely did anyone roll a SoB army. I'm surprised they've lasted this long to be honest, but if the retired them or phased them out.. You'd have people complaining.. claiming they were just about to start playing them !! I think one of GW biggest mistakes was getting rid of the original red box Warhammer & all those connected pieces. I know many who did play & still play Warhammer - who won't touch 40k.

[@Yakkahboo]

The only complaint really is that the new ruling creates this anti-synergy, and it's just weird. Even if they reworded it so that hit roll counted as the unmodified wound roll, then at least you wouldn't get punished for taking auto wounds on the Magna-rail rifles, or you would at least still have a chance to get the exploding damage. I did get the box and the models are still fantastic so I'm not that fussed, it just feels very odd. Also as a side note: If they wish to adjust points as fast as they did here, they should use the back cover of the codecis to add a plastic wallet that holds A4 by default, and print the points costs on a prinout in there so people dont feel like they need to write in their books, they can just pop a printout of the new points in there.

[@Boonedale]

Yea, I was thinking the same thing.

[@MiniTechniks]

This. You've saved me much typing, and I like that shhhhh lol I'm honestly not that bent out of shape about the rules, but I play casually. 🤷‍♂️

[@machinegunred2422]

Or if it was worded that even if you got the auto wound with the Magna-rail from judgement tokens then roll a die and on a 6 it would do the splash damage and on 5 and lower it would just do the single target hit. It would still be hard to proc but not impossible if you want to use judgement tokens. The new rule just make the uniqueness of the magna-rail kinda pointless. I do agree it needed to be nerfed but they need to look closer at it.

[@clamus68]

Auspex Tactics already gives insight of the whys to this. Someone at GW got interviewed by Metawatch explaining the process of what they look for and what are the standards for new army books. This was for AoS but to think the process is radically different for 40k would be ludicrous. There was another channel that explained the Play Test process. GW play tests their Codices for 40k in 4 Army Pods. In the case of Votann, they were playtested against Tau, Alderai, Tyranid and then Votann. Given that each of those Codices were OP it makes sense that LoV would be out of whack. So no, not a conspiracy.

[@sniperpro-pi9dz]

I wouldn't say tau are strong after nephelim

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Just incopantance... Like why not valdate their findings against space marines, choas, orks you know the main factions of 40k? Also it could be intermitted as conforming the conspiracy of GW wanting to power creep 40k so they only tested it agaisnt the last few codexs to see if the power creep was still on.

[@eastoforion]

that seems really dumb in a game with this many factions... at least benchmark against marines or necrons or something

[@clamus68]

@@eastoforion basically they do it in pods because the way they publish Codicies. So the ones getting published within a certain time frame are the ones they test against. So look at the Knights books, both of them are well balanced internally and semi well balanced externally. They were tested against each other, CSM and Demons. All four of those books are very solid. Not OP and they have multiple quality builds per book.

[@eastoforion]

@@clamus68 I get it, but not having any cross reference for that pod is still insane for that large of a company and a very competitive game

[@McToast1337]

I think what this Codex really shows it that GW should start to release rules as PDF first (perhaps included in WH+ to give some value to that crap) and make a printed "Collectors Edition" later when all the glaring issues are fixed. I don't play 40k anymore, just Necromunda, but I really don't want to come back to this mess. For me, the magic time was 3rd/4th edition (with all the problems these editons had).

[@iandoddsblah]

This is a very, very good idea.

[@CalAndAly]

Def got banned at multiple tourneys in Germany, then a number of others pre-banned them around the world. Auspex & tactical tortoise had vids, was all over reddit. The judgement tokens auto wounding and spillover damage meant the big vehicle could like 1 shot a 10man squad of marines & such. Much love man! Gotta get those BT’s on the tabletop this edition!!

[@phaylnx]

Sisters of Battle got codex/index updates but not models before their refresh, so were never truly squatted. Both Necrons and Dark Eldar went as almost as long as that with no rules updates or models.

[@RogalDorn01]

Votaan change to auto sixes was a big feels bad moment for me. Points cost hike seemed excessive for an army no one has even tried in a tournament yet...but we all play crusade because its straight up more fun anyway.

[@LumberJAN]

Yeah. I definitely buy books and not use Wahapedia exactly to scribble new point values once in while :)

[@johnnnysilverhand9819]

I think when Deep Rock Galactic blew up, Games Workshop saw that it was feasible and went for the whole mining megacorp-conglomerate idea for the leagues.

[@grahamcarpenter691]

Makes sense, every Votann post has someone yelling “ROCK AND STONE” in the comments

[@johnnnysilverhand9819]

I think one of the Trans-Hyperian league is even called the “Deep Rock League” somewhere in the codex.

[@bww33]

next edition GW needs to release rules for all armies right on day 1 as a playtest - give us all a year to playtest the armies, collect feedback, and have an official release day for all codex at the same time. either that, or don't make a codex an army building tool - make it a lore and fluff tome, and then release datasheets and points values online.

[@reubenmccallum3350]

The apology video was fantastic. Warhammer TV should just do a 15 minute James Workshop sitcom every week.

[@beewee2152]

It would get stale real quick...

[@tearseptpainting1086]

I found it really funny that James Made a special appearance in the apology, but will people write the nerfs with a sharpie into the book or will they just have to print the rules and have extra annoying pieces of paper floating around and getting lost😂

[@Nemoknowsnothing]

I loved the "I should only exist at Christmas" in the end. And, obviously, you tear up the page, you copyit by hand on a blank page (no lines, that's cheating) and then you glue it in with pva glue

[@bhseigel]

points costs arent in codex books, and the judgement change should probably be sharpied in. edit: i meant data sheet doesnt have point printed on them

[@markcampbell127]

@@bhseigel My Grey Knight Codex has the points values in the back...

[@tomkeast5246]

@@bhseigel what codex doesn't have points value

[@bhseigel]

i meant they arent in datasheets** sorry

[@gribblegreeble]

An across the board points hike is a knee jerk response to try and satisfy people who were griping, particularly those on social media and are disproportionately louder. There would have been a nerf like every other codex after its been out a few months, but this was a rush to depower them by basically thinking the board on points.

[@iandoddsblah]

The apology video is very, very funny.. as is all the people having a meltdown about it!

[@TheClassicDoomGuy]

One of the appeals of the army box was the limited edition codex, good to know I have a paper weight now.

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

why? 30 seconds of writing on 2 pages and its perfect

[@leoismaking]

I'm one of those that doesn't play GW, but I'm loving the look of the Votann models. I might pick up a squad to use with "mini agnostic" games.

[@elfmastercool4734]

I really like the squats, although i already have way too much to build and paint already. James was hilarious, but since I'm new to the hobby, when I was watching I had no idea if this was "normal" or not.

[@The.Raxing]

Normally James Workshop is reserved for the holiday season

[@MikeSpicyWinner]

Yeah I also have way too much to build and paint. So now I have all that and the new squats ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@kerbal666]

As a painter, not a player, I don't understand this at all. I get they're overpowered but I heard the same thing when the Tyranids came out when Necrons came out and when the Tau came out. So why has this become more of a bigger deal? Or is this just 40k players being 40k players?

[@JuanThunder79]

I think the issue with the brokenness is less to do with the sheer power through super efficiency of the codex known as codex creep (nids, harlequins etc being super strong on release) and more to do with how the squat rules actually over powered the mechanics of the game. the principle being you pick a target, roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save and roll for damage. With Votan rules bypassing parts of that system to great effect and either completely removing or marginalising the opponents ability to defend themselves. Also with it being a dice game this was massively exaggerated because when you change the probability of something going of to from 15% to 50% thats huge.

[@kerbal666]

@@JuanThunder79 Right I see. So it's become more like a game of rochambeau than a dice game?

[@lightningwolf788]

Basically it's like this: Tau and Tyranids are recent enough examples to use. When their codexes dropped, Tau had incredible firepower potential but still got hurt when you fired back/got them into combat. Tyranids were given a lot of unique rules to adapt to situations, but you could still absolutely outplay them if you knew how. Votann couldn't really be played around. They have multiple things many armies don't, even multiple unique weapon types, and there isn't much of a way to beat them period before these hits.

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

Maybe play and you will find out

[@kerbal666]

@@DatcleanMochaJo Why when I can ask

[@finnianjoyce-velez8079]

One of our stores was running a tournament last weekend and put out a post saying votann we’re banned

[@brokenheroics8223]

My friends battled each other at my store, Votann vs Tyranids. The Votann player had the box set plus proxies for the berserkers. The game lasted an hour or so and it was pretty awesome to watch. It made us appreciate the work they put into the Votann. The models are beautiful when you have them in hand. I'm hyped to see them grow in the 40K universe.

[@461Dragonman]

No, they WERE banned. In several countries. But what most don't tell you is that those circuits ban new codices out the gate until they get an FAQ, so they're not as special as some may think.

[@odharrison23]

Like d thing on the internet it gets blown out of proportion. But at the same time. What if they did change anything just left it? The factions of 40k all have strengths and weaknesses. Doesn’t that make it balance? I’m just a noob so I really don’t know what I’m talking about! Thanks gents!! Fantastic as always!

[@emchamberlain]

The video with James was hilarious frankly. This is a game and not something to get too mad about. I also love that the man at the top took decisive action. Or delegated. Also, he only exists at Christmas.

[@NewtonPlays]

Please release hardback Lore books. But paper back CHEAPER rules books. Because then we can buy them again when GW messes around with them...

[@rutgaurxi7314]

GW should literally just follow Corvus Beli's route of doing rules for each faction. Edited.

[@EvilEmperorZ]

So I play Black Templar (don't call me Space Marines) and I feel when the newest book came out it was fairly balanced. Now with new book power creep and the new seasonal rules we have fallen behind. Just seems like gw sells rules, not models.

[@joshualetchford2034]

I think it's the other way around actually. They sell models not rules. They'll constantly implement rules creep so that you have to keep purchasing different models to stay in the meta.

[@PeterIsATeacher]

18:56 Yup this. I'd bet every mini I own that 80% of the votann boxes sold on that first release will not ever be part of a tournament. I bought my box because I thought the models were cool. I've yet to play a full 2k army game in over 3 years of hobbying

[@alexlerouge1170]

I would like there to have been a different change to the judgement tokens. Taking away synergies always feels bad and making synergies into anti synergies just removes a lot of the options for an already limited faction. Like now with some of my gear I don't want to be targeting enemies with my factions main gimmick? I would have preferred that you activate chosen tokens at the beginning of the command phase and at the end of your turn the tokens you activate go away. At least that would build nuance to the faction. You could adjust the values of rolling what would autowound to maybe make them better or worse. Maybe even add a rule that if an opponents unit doesn't wound one of yours during a round then they lose a token. That way tokens could be played around if you're opponent rolls badly or chooses to advance or reposition that round.

[@mintw4241]

Pretty interesting! I bought the starter box because I liked the models with no intent to play them, but maybe ill give the space dwarves a real shot someday

[@CmdrPinkiePie]

3:10 Rogue Trader and 40k 2nd Edition both required a referee (GM) to oversee gameplay.

[@p-chan3319]

Based on BR of Votann pre-nerfs i think they went over the top with the nerf. They don't seem top tier or even above average now and the new grudge rule with weapons seem anti-synergic now. Because of that I think the competitive scene which brought this nerf on the faction won't play them and GW might show low support. Which is a shame considering the amount of time Squats players waited for their return. Unreleased units are now way worse as well. So they will mostly sell to hobbyists like me. As a old school Squats collector / ex-player i will collect and paint the LoV. I am just happy they exist but i wish they get supported in the future :)

[@danwagner4306]

Awesome vid, I concur, good on ole GW with the vid. Also, haven't said it in a while, but man each of your patreon transitions still get me going... they jimmy my jam and flim my flam. Sorry if I got that wrong, but accidents do happen.

[@CocoHutzpah]

I decided that I'm going to slowly build a Squat army. I'll get a box of troops and see if I like making and painting them. I'll ally them with my Tau and see if I like how they play. If it's fun, it'll expand into a small group of angry, drunk, short men.

[@timunderbakke8756]

I know one local store that DID ban them. I can get you the data if you want. Re: broken, the huge issue with them was how they could get nasty auto-wound through their judgment tokens, and the autowound was counted as a 6, keying off other abilities in the codex so you can start splash damaging and wipe out entire infantry units with no hope of saving throw, or just incinerate a Knight. I feel like the fix of auto wound OR go for the 6’s synergy will make it more balanced. Some of the point changes are fine, some feel a bit overboard (rip squatty terminators).

[@sadis72]

We all expected the rules/points update but not literally 5 days after a box came out with not even their whole model line released. Not a single 2k point game has been played with the full model line, so no one can tell how broken this book even is. Everyone should get a refund on their codex in the votann box set. This need is based on 0 data, this is just a over reaction by the community and GW, this is not a good thing. I play death guard and CSM and I’m not scared of the votann. Only a 6 on a hit roll that auto wounds due to eye of the ancestors is treated as being a 6 for the wound roll. You can only give judgement tokens to enemy units you can see I think a soft points update should look like this Iron master 100pts Grim 90pts Kahl 80 Uthar 160 Hearth warriors- 12pts ion guns are free Beserkers- 25pts Hearthgusrd- 40-42pts (no Reroll wound against them is strong) but they’re 2 wound terminators with no invul and not obsec. Pioneers- 100pts Thunder Kin- 90pts Land fortress- 300 is fine but all guns gun options are free

[@madmachanicest9955]

You know that one point change her model on the leagues of photon base troopers actually makes a lot of sense because they come with a crap ton of upgrades so it'll force you to pick and choose more when it comes to selecting your upgrades.

[@wellwailwhale359]

The more I read the lore and look at the new models the more I'm warming up to the Votann. My grumbling at the start was they didn't feel dorfy enough, but seeing words like grudges being thrown around really does warm this longbeard's heart. Maybe the new kids are alright after all. All in all I'm actually quite happy with how they mashed the design of old Warhammer Fantasy dwarfs, general sci-fi, and 40k. I still don't think they fit in THAT well with the 40k that I knew and love, but they're a great fit for the setting that 40k is turning into, and maybe that's okay.

[@todsmith6591]

yeah I agree... I also have no memory of them ever putting out that they (GW) made a mistake before. Crazy huh?

[@ChirpOTK]

Jay! Love your vids as always. I actually had a question. I don't live very close to any FLGs, and the online retailer miniaturemarket that I typically bought models from has recently been having a lot of trouble fulfilling orders. I thought you had recently recommended a webstore to buy miniatures from but I couldn't find the name of it. Could you remind me?

[@Andr00Warns]

Just the code for the app, and then put the book on the shelve to never be looked at again.

[@sjaakninaber4989]

EOB Lore was fun would love to see/hear more

[@thawedpenguin]

Not the fastest FAQ. Warhammer 8th Ed got an FAQ the day before it was released

[@Aetrion]

I feel like the judgement token system is kind of busted because it's going to be super strong against any armies with low unit counts and relatively few but tough models. Anyone doing a tank heavy army, knights or anything like that will just get completely stomped out because suddenly any weapon the LoV have can hurt those big models easily.

[@cowkingkiller]

the tokens don't really come into play usually until round 2/3 when your guys actually get in range... fought them last night they are mid/high tier.

[@stoissdk]

The main difference between Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle and Squats was that Squats were devoured and meant never to return - where as the others stayed in lore.

[@ScytheNoire]

You get a Judgement Token, and you get a Judgement Token, and you get a Judgement Token! You all get a Judgement Token!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

About it not a big deal... Infront of you is a $50 paper weight. Edit: Like the most expensive TTwargaming book I have not from GW is the hardback Victory at Sea rule book that comes with the core rules, Extra rules, all the models rules in the game like all, all and it was $45 when I got it. Most games ether have free rules and or one faction rule books for like $30 or just use unit cards and ignore the whole codex thing... So marking up a $55 single faction book is not good enough when you are paying extra for it... How ever I do want one to colect as it is past it's use by date and should be cheaper second hand then it was before the nerf.

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

I don't know about paperweight, it took about a minute to change 12 numbers and scribble in a new sentance

[@mortisangelica]

I'm just glad that after 30 years Games Workshop has finally got all the army's from 2cnd edition done. What happened I stopped calling James Workshop and asking when we where getting squats, told fine I will play them space elves instead.

[@Lothrean]

2 things here: 1. You need to see the point changes in % not in raw numbers. 2. The autowounding counting as unmodified 6 was completely broken with a ton of votann rules. All the changes in combination are a really big hit to the faction. At first i thought it might be ok, but now I am really concerned about the faction…

[@grimmriffer]

A GM for battles is a good idea. A neutral party to gently steer the players past gaps and contradictions in the rules - or knowledge thereof, to subtly hussle them past moments of "well that should obviously never happen...", and remind everyone that the point is to tell a story, not just to win. (A battle is a short and bloody story, but still a story.)

[@rutgaurxi7314]

It used to be a thing, back in the day.

[@GamemasterGiff]

Are the core orks also squat size?

[@TorrentKatten]

I just feels weird to have a core mechanic that is completely block weapon rules. Sure it was broken, but why even have the proc on the rail cannons?

[@allanmundt2399]

it was banned too a smaller turnament in denmark

[@mattf6891]

Mistakes aren't mistakes if they are intentional.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodla2091]

GW got their money, so the apology means jack.

[@codyinacoma]

From this I actually do think their law is pretty cool after hearing you read it, so good job on getting me to at least think there's somewhat interesting I'm not sure if they're gonna be one of the races that actually make a dent in the galaxy but I don't know we'll see

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Thanks for this overview of the codex's release... Which I've skipped though TT titian play the pre release codex and the leagues tied both games so yeah not OP and Auspex tactics did a video on the new rules and it seems like the leagues went from S to A so not a big nerf(Which some League models are under powered and got nerfed...) Which I'm happy your enjoying that they are here now welcome on board the Space dwarf train!

[@mortyjhones4068]

thing is that the book dosn't have a time line in it unfortunatly. BUT, if you take the info in section one and intergrate it with the background from other books there timeline is going to be masivly complecated.

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

It seems super simple, they have been living in the galactic core since migrating from old earth

[@mortyjhones4068]

@@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376 No in the lore section it says that they have been missidentifyed by the magor races, so they have had key interactions with the TAU and ELDAR. and have intervened on behalf of EVERY fraction in 40k

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

@@mortyjhones4068 yes but that's true of all the 40k races, they have all had interactions with each other. I don't see any complications

[@madmachanicest9955]

Okay so games workshop didn't count on the chain reaction synergy from judgment tokens I can see that happening.

[@thomaswilliams5005]

I love the new turtle battle wagon

[@chuckoneill8847]

I agree 8th is great i started with 3rd edtion I saw many problems with all edtions prior to 8th edtion to many players would invent there own rules I e rhino blitz thanks enjoy ur vids

[@Valderin]

it was not "5 days of playing squats". Full codex leaked weeks before release. People would have enough time to test it out.

[@Lord_Brownie]

Everytime he says squats, a judgement token is added to his house

[@jenvas]

40K really needs a proper video game that plays by the same rules as the tabletop, almost like a simulator. people can try out building armies adn tehn settle on what they might want to collect for real. GW can use it to have mass playtesting before new releases.

[@theycallmepiccolo9985]

Tournaments in Germany banned the squats

[@optiondezzo1513]

this is not the first time new stuff got nerfed after it got released. i remember pre covid, the gw ''dev studio" were constantly changing things after a month of release.

[@BABABABABANCHAN]

is the big box gonna be sold again ?

[@geertbeekman8680]

but know you dont want to shoot you magma rail gun at a enemy with a judgment token because you cant roll to wound

[@Grimwear]

Your enthusiam for kill team has gotten my friends and I into wanting to play it. Now for us we like to choose the models first then deal with rules/books. The problem is I cannot for the life of me find a list of all the kill team options. The games workshop site is useless (seriously look at their kill team section). Ageofminiatures appears the most in depth but hasn't been updated since January. Wahapedia is also missing a bunch of factions (I think) such as Elucidian Starstriders. Is there somewhere I can look at all options easily? Aside from walking to a game store and literally looking through all 3 kill team books.

[@rhaeja1768]

Correction, they don't have elucidian or the Gellerpox but I believe they have everything else

[@Bluewater1976]

The rule change invalidates the army rule of a sub faction. Would have been better to just say only 6es are 6es and be done with it.

[@hewitttribe5536]

ALL TOMORROWS MENTION LETS GOOOOO, QU!!!

[@MiniTechniks]

I would've gone with 6s counting and the others not, but its jot the worst thing they couldve done 🤔 Ive got some sticking points with certain units point changes that make them "unviable" before they drop, but for the most part, I have to agree, it was (mostly) solid n clean in terms of gw fixes 🤣 Edited with quotations

[@thetraitorguardsmen.5321]

I started collecting and playing in 1988 i was 11 year's old. Ahhh the good old days. I remember when it was fields where games workshop hq is. Mumble mumble now it's time for my nap 😴

[@zesty8772]

There are other weapons then just the Magna rail rifle that has unmodified 6 abilities lmao. “Nothing has changed for squats” except that whole league that got fucked hahahaha.

[@MiniatureMasterClass]

Anyone who thought this Codex would not be broken immediately upon release is not paying attention.

[@Merc89PSU]

The apology video rubbed me the wrong way. I spent $200 for the army set and game workshop couldn't take the time to properly test and/or proofread the army codex. I was looking forward to this faction all year. ....but they made a funny so it is all right. /s Codices are a waste of money because they become outdated after a few months.

[@timunderbakke8756]

Agreed - I didn’t buy them but that really came across as “snooty elite got caught, throws a lighthearted my-bad, and dismisses their mistake out of hand as no big deal” I want to like the Squats, but I’m afraid for their future after this too. Will they be squatted a second time when folks reject after this? Will they manage to do Ok despite the heavy handed nerfing? Don’t get me wrong something had to happen but I’m worried that it’s been overdone now.

[@squidcultist0022]

I find it refreshing to have a human like faction that isn't pro imperium or chaos.

[@crowythebutcher6127]

I have have so many different models I have no idea how to play I just think there neat

[@thetraitorguardsmen.5321]

Do they get access to knights and Titan's 🤔

[@zephy64]

I disagree that making such sweeping changes isn't a huge deal for their printed media. Not everyone will want to sharpy a new book. changes could happen again. not everyone will know the changes happened. people will play with the books as written. this is a direct result of GWs refusal to have digital living versions of the codexes and insisting on wasteful hard copies.

[@orichumo]

people were still painting their votans and they got nerfed

[@troy6882]

Unless your a game master then your going to need every type of model available 😃😄😁😆😅 5 Smile's.

[@BigBismark]

I still cannot believe that they made their power armor look indistinguishable from space marine armor. What were they thinking.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

Gotta re-use those assets.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

I'm not sure GW knows non space marine things exist

[@bertellijustin6376]

Well I mean wasn’t marine armor based off of an STC pattern anyway? They’ve fought humans in power armor during the crusade. Doesn’t seem that far off another “human” culture would use the same human tech they find or build.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@bertellijustin6376 it's lazy, with Rando groups I doubt we ever see a picture of yea you can make them look similar, don't make a new faction that looks similar to the only faction you make minis fir

[@2dola]

I watched a gw vid that had the comments on today, things might be changing even if it's only miner.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

I refuse to believe that they even know you can turn comments on

[@IronModeOfficial]

I just want a giant beer Stein for a HQ option

[@Hurricanelive]

I'm pretty sure GW just was forced to release the actual first nerf pass they always had available for release a month or two from now for damage control because they got called out on their BS. The worst thing is that if they can bring back squats for $$$ they can bring back female astartes. So imo Squats should never have returned.

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

Squats shouldn’t have come back because female astartes might come back too?

[@SirMorNo]

so what im hearing, is that we can have a modified version of Deep Rock Galactic in the spin of 40k from a legit race of humans

[@Pikkabuu]

It wasn't a plan. GW guys are just that bad at figuring out things. I remember a story from back in the days of someone talking to Phil Kelly about the holo-Falcon and Kelly was like "That is easy to destroy."....well the guy told Kelly the math and Kelly's tune changed. So if the story is true then the people at GW have no clue about the game either and they prefer to write rules during Bugman's Happy Hour.

[@alanmorales5784]

Dude you honestly think GW didn’t know?, People didn’t just spend their money to use a sharpie and ruin their brand new book, GW had years and months to plan this, and after all that planning and editing still print the book. This IS a big deal, I don’t want GW to think this crap is okay at all, and then offer a joke apology. Dude don’t drink the cool aid

[@stephanhecht3913]

Yeah. They probably knew Squats could have a very mixed response model wise. So to "gurantee" a recoup on their investment they broke the rules in half. That way if people didn't like the models they would still get their money from metachasers.

[@tonygreenfield7820]

Taken far too long to release them and then pulling the standard GW FOMO with the set sold out almost immediately. Would probably have given them a try but had already gone for the Into The Dark Kill Team while waiting for the Squats. So, I've a couple of sets of the Necromunda Squats. My interest in the "Leagues" has pretty much dried up. Too much teasing a release not enough getting on with it. So, the delay may be down to getting shot of the play testers? Bad planning by GW again. Maybe this time next year.....

[@kalebgonzales4009]

If there is one faction I wish would exist, it would be men of iron!

[@robertlamborn7518]

After much drama about a year ago, GW apologised for something and the community accepted it! then forgave them?? then forgot about it?? Will the community accept and forgive them then forgot this one? Next year, the apology will be for??

[@robssteven]

Maybe I'm too pessimistic on this but it seems a well rehearsed routine. 1. Leak your codex to get interest prior to release. 2. Sell lots of models. 3. Nerf the codex after to not annoy the rest of the player base. I appreciate balance is difficult but it just seems too predictable that every codex has been overpowered.

[@davidguevara7082]

looking forward for a tyranids vs squads kill team

[@jack-a-lopium]

So getting the squats is still painful, gross, embarrassing and shameful... a messy release leads to recrimination, apologies, and a hasty clean-up.🤔

[@ErgonomicChair]

Votan is actually pronounced, Wotan. Gravity pulls, not pushes... wouldn't that mean they grow super lanky and tall as the black hole PULLS everything around it garvity wise??

[@davinchi3228]

I wonder what rules they get for kill team if it looks nice I might try it finally XD

[@zachmoss8896]

Squats where going to be called "guild masters" but GW just could not justify what was obvious just space dwarfs.

[@thegloriouswizard5270]

G-Dubs don't apologize for anything. Even though they should.

[@PhD777]

Their biggest and worst mustake ever was progressing to 3-9th editions. 😉

[@TrackerRoo]

We have these rules, now let's cram in more and more bloat every couple of years. Players love bloat and fluff and bullshit.