Games Workshop Just ENDED Space Marines

[@makdaddi3921]

No faster way to destroy your company than to ask an opinion of the Marketing Department.... who typically know nothing about your company in the first place.

[@davidbowles7281]

It won't destroy anything. GW fans are addicted.

[@thomaskrogh1244]

Bad markers yes but good marketers know more about the company and products.

[@DJRockford83]

Sounds like the HR department

[@jack-a-lopium]

For a bunch of people that have never had a job, why should anybody listen to you for business advice?

[@MonteKowalsky]

I worked for a company that promoted marketing people into operations roles for rEaSoNs

[@c.g.262]

When I saw the list of models that will not longer be in 40k my heart sank… these are the models I put together with my son, and we played with, and have so many fond memories of. It’s like you said, “when I think of space marines I think of these.”

[@biguschungus3989]

I love that they said this was there way of trying to cut down the bloat of the space marine range....as at the same time I'm pretty sure they are gonna just replace these with a new version of them. But don't worry space marine players! I'm sure you'll get another billionth captain or lieutenant

[@Durandurandal]

Well, one thing that I realized is that a fair bunch, if not all, of those pulled models could also be units in HH. So there's a not zero chance we get nicer looking new versions of all these firstborn models...for HH lmao

[@colonelturmeric558]

Yes like how they turned tac squads into several new squads and assault marines into 2 separate datasheets

[@velentr]

Anyone who didn't see the writing on the wall the second Primaris were unveiled must have not paid a lot of attention to GW's track record.

[@11AleZZ]

Well the primaris range was released more than 6 years ago, and in fact, most of the first wave releases can be axed in 4-5 years, some of them never were really popular or good in games, like the reavers or the flying guys with guns.

[@velentr]

@@11AleZZ I'm not sure if I'm just reading the tone wrong- it seems like you are presenting this to disprove my statement/take/caustic comment- but I'm just not seeing _how_ ?

[@11AleZZ]

@@velentr chill dude

[@velentr]

@@11AleZZ Oh, I didn't mean for it to come of as aggressive- I was legitimately confused. But that really illustrates what I meant with me maybe not reading the tone right quite nicely XD.

[@skywatcheradept]

GW just introduced upscaled Firstborn Terminators in the Leviathan boxes. People were hoping for upscaling the whole Firstborn range like that. Also ever since we got index unit cards there is no problem with codex bloat. But now GW just cancelled one of the most iconic space marine units ever.

[@markkuhn1297]

This is why I downloaded a copy of One Page Rules and bought a $15.00 bag of plastic army men from Amazon. Done. Having a blast with it.

[@savagex466-qt1io]

lmao you have a dive game with army men ? I use to set them up with my friend and we would flick dice at them. The idea was to try and knock them down. 40k is expensive and not balanced like a game of Chess buts its lore is hudge and the modles really are highly deailed. Best table top game iv played.

[@legatus_newt]

@@savagex466-qt1io Warhammer 40k is more like Magic The Gathering than it is other wargames. As a teenager all I knew was 40k cause it was the most popular but now after experiencing a variety of wargames. 40k leans so heavy on the "army building" and combos from army composition rather than the moment to moment decisions and "fun". Don't get me wrong army building and composition combos can be fun but it's not as fun to me as a more balanced game of tactical strategy (aka chess with space dudes or fantasy monsters ). I've done mini painting for a while now but I only recently got back into wargaming and I don't do 40k any more. The minis are still really good quality and absolutely oozing with style so I will Games Workshop credit there, I just didn't find the game fun anymore.

[@rangda_prime]

@@legatus_newt Exactly my way of playing. Me and my mates are into Lion Rampant, Comitatus, Tercios!, Bolt Action and other historical sets. We do still play some GW games but only dead, older ones like Mordheim and old versions of Epic which have been kept alive and improved upon by their respective communities over the decades. The new Epic launch made me chuckle. There's been good physical proxies for more than a decade and with printing all of the stuff is available at a fraction of the cost.

[@digbicmcgeegaming2581]

OPR is a beautiful thing. Currently getting a bunch of cybernetic space dinosaurs printed.

[@mausolus8466]

My band of gnolls (Frostgrave band/TnB band/OPR Beastmen band etc.) are laughthing at GW madness as well!

[@NimbleTack]

I believe that GW are now carrying out research into how to make new minis spontaneously combust after three years.

[@dickturpin1964]

They could just change the resin to one with a short shelf life. But don't give them ideas.

[@NimbleTack]

@@dickturpin1964 Wasn't that Finecast?

[@dickturpin1964]

@@NimbleTack you've got it 😏

[@Haroith]

They have already known the solution: just remove them from codexes. A half of players refuse to play with something outside the codexes.

[@BillWD]

Lessons taken from apple phones

[@brianhall4182]

Buh. There goes half my Salamander army. I used a lot of Attack Bikes and Land Speeders. The Land Speeders I don't mind as much since the Storm Speeders are pretty good looking replacements. But the Attack Bike primaris equivalent is the ATV and I'll be damned if I buy a single one of those silly go-kart looking motherf'ers. Sure, the Attack Bike is an old clunky looking model but at least it looks utilitarian. The ATV looks like it was designed by a 5 year old for a Mario game.

[@demon1103]

I feel ya, not to mention while Outriders "seem" like the Primaris bike equivalent at first glance...they don't get flamers/meltas. *sigh*

[@SirBrasstion]

@@demon1103 Flamers? Meltas? Surely you mean 'Outrider Ranged Weapons'.

[@mikewhitaker2880]

imagine the pain of a White Scars player... their WHOLE army is now defunct....

[@Specter-wt1wt]

@@mikewhitaker2880 i have a full company of ravenwing firstborn (60 bikes, 19 attack bikes and 19 landspeeders + characters and special units) cand it all be dead according to this.

[@mikewhitaker2880]

@@Specter-wt1wt just remember it's "ONLY dead" at GW stores and official tourneys.. i'm sure the avg gamer don't give a flying F' as long as your WYSIWYG.. i mean they don't want to spend 1000's to replace their own armies either.. and the rules for the models are still out there soo, yeah, GW can go F' itself imo

[@paulharrison8152]

Yep, my entire 2k Ravenwing army gone. My Dark Angels command squad and Assault Squads. It upset me slightly when I lost my Worldeaters Bikers and Raptors. Not to mention all my Contemptor Dreadnoughts and Kytan. Must have lost literally thousands of pounds.

[@michaeljacobs2860]

Gw did this intentionally simply for the reason of not losing sales for 10th edition launch and creating drama in the community. That company is devishly tactically nefarious

[@jacobtaylor9879]

My first 40k mini was the £5 single space marine biker 😢will be missed 😅

[@knabseraph]

same brother... didn't know what to do with the single model, could only afford one, and had to undercoat with skull white, brushed on, a few times to cover the plastic

[@jacobtaylor9879]

@knabseraph yep, saved up all my papper round money. I remember I painted him chaos black and then gave him an orange and a white should pad with a white helmet, and that was my chapter the "hellzangelz".

[@patrikandersson8054]

Owning a 3D printer has never felt better.

[@rangda_prime]

WORD!

[@radeadcool]

No regrets

[@Mark-sz5rh]

I only lost 1 mini in this purge (the Librarian...don't remember where/when I got him). But as I had only gotten back into 40k minis right before the pandemic, most of what I purchased happened to be primaris stuff. Maybe I'm lucky. Though I'm not sure why GW got rid of some of the vehicles and cannon. Not really used anymore? Just strange. For those players who have collected SMs for a decade or more...those people, i feel for.

[@Haroith]

GW explained it in the article: they are just too old.

[@Mark-sz5rh]

@@Haroith That's what I figures. I don't have enough time to be on top of all the GW news/changes. That's why I watch Discorse and Auspex. :)

[@mogwaiman6048]

Primaris are the future. This process started in 8th edition. You can just counts as that Librarian as the Primaris Librarian anyway.

[@Haroith]

​@@mogwaiman6048 it doesn't work this way. If you have endless income to buy, endless space to store and eternity ti paint - OK. Ah, and you can love any faction, no matter who they are. 99% of players are not so. If I wanted eternal cycle 'buy, throw away' than I can always become MtG player. But I don't want such a product. I want to slowly collect minis, make beautiful conversions and paint them. It makes me really angry when someone comes and says 'from now your work is nothing! It is rubbish, throw away it!' What? All my spendings are nothing? Really?

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@Haroith you still have your models. And you can "counts as" anyway in matched play games or play narrative games and use firstborn as firstborn. This has been in process since 8th edition. Primaris were always going to replace firstborn. Even the famous named characters crossed the rubicon.

[@minipaintingforyou]

I never believed a word they said when primaris were released and we were promised that they would coexist with firstborn marines. I‘ll keep playing 5th edition, thank you very much! 😊

[@originalAoitora]

5th is great 👍

[@aegrisomnia]

5th was the last good edition anyways.

[@Durandurandal]

[Me, two weeks ago, coming back from my vacation, feeling energized to finally get into a project] "Oh wow, I only need 3 assault squad boxes to make a demi company that'll be fun!" [Me, at the start of the week] *sad trumpet noises*

[@Durandurandal]

also, seeing as all the disco'd models were "no longer available online" within an hour of GW announcing that *later in the week* they would be "Last Chance to Buy", idk, maybe GW should just do a "made to order" week when these big model groups are being pulled

[@Haroith]

Maybe they should just stop their greed and leave gamers alone with their minis? No, it's fantastic.

[@kevinh.9939]

There were no models eliminated from my Battle Brothers lists from OPR. ;)

[@Marinealver]

At this point Garbage Wreckshop should just make Age of Emperor (or Empress) destroy the 40k galaxy and make dozens of new galaxies (like Khorn Galaxy or Tau Galaxy) and be done with it.

[@Rothgar59]

This was a planned range removal after the the Ultramarines won the battle for Oghran and had all their new kits previewed. Same thing will happen to the old tyranid kits after their new models get previewed shortly before the new tyranid codex is released. *some of the above timeline may not happen in the correct order due to player actions.

[@FigurativelyArtistic]

Thank you. You explained it exactly how I expect it to go.

[@Bluecho4]

Yeah, I imagine if Space Marines had won that contest, we'd all be getting previews of updated Scouts and what not. Meanwhile, Tyranid players would be bemoaning GW announcing kits like Hormagaunts and Licters being removed.

[@Convincing_Reality]

Primaris are the bloat, plain and simple. Firstborn infantry had Tactical, Assault, and Devastator. There are over FIFTEEN different Primaris infantry units at this moment.

[@piscinaiv7937]

DA multiwing player with a 'thunder run' style army, bikes, speeders, razorbacks... I'm pretty much gutted.

[@GarredHATES]

I prefer the goofy proportions of the older minis, there's a certain charm to them.

[@jacobl2222]

I strongly agree. The thing that drew me to 40k in the first place was the weird, cartoony, heavy metal vibe it had. Lots of the newer models are cool looking, in that they're way more detailed. But I also find as the proportions get more realistic, everything starts to look more and more generic.

[@GarredHATES]

@@jacobl2222 right!

[@hmmm348]

I buy secondhand, and I'm seeing a lot of full boxes of Primaris stuff with 1 or two assembled by new players who are supposed to be GW's new cash cows. IMO, if you simplify the game, you simplify the level of obsession/dedication. Moving away from iconography with Primaris is partly how they're doing that, but then they'll push hard with upgrade packs again IMO. Making a 'Rules for all' chapters minus chapter specific units means upgrade packs will be crucial to make players feel their army is distinct over time. And the primary reason GW now holds the power is because they've successfully grabbed the value of Models by the balls with "Tournament legal quality" and making your army rejectable by those who buy their new stuff. They want to harness the toxicity of the community and make new players police and shame old players to give them a competitive advantage. Probably the only good counter movement would be for old players to arrest the lore pre-Primaris and become elitist over 'firstborn only' play, unfortunately fighting toxicity with toxicity. "No, Truehammer doesn't recognize Primaris or your hopehammer models". Unofficial would have to trump official in popularity, but that hasn't happened so far. It's all dependent on whether new players stay long term, which IMO, won't happen, because people don't like to get fucked over and now the hobby is about 3x more expensive with many other good options available.

[@MonteKowalsky]

The upgrade kits on their face seem fine, but given the way the company is behaving they seem comparable to micro-transactions seen in online games, just not the ones that use the “loot box”. It’s like a physical version of buying skins. They’re also a sign that they’re moving further into the purview of 3rd party sellers that make things like sculpted shoulder pads for obscure factions, so it could be another avenue to try and flex some legal muscle to stamp out that market.

[@hmmm348]

@@MonteKowalsky It won't just be skins. They'll give you new weapons you can attach to base kits that you otherwise won't have access to. Wargear, etc.

[@bremer1701]

GW ousted an entire game and it didnt hurt them in the long run. It wont hurt them to loose a couple of marine players either

[@Ghislain82]

This has been at least 6 years in the coming. Anyone who hasn't seen this coming was being willingly blind.

[@CT68]

A few years ago I was thinking about getting into the tabletop because GW was saying "you can use all your models" but I quickly realized that wasn't real, and they're just drug dealers who sell plastic instead of crack.

[@adamloveland3198]

Space Marine Players: We're being culled by idiots! Chaos Players: How's the shoe fitting on the other foot? The 3D printers are gonna make bank for all the people going to older editions so they don't have to start from the ground up. Keep messing up GW, we all hate you lol

[@Haroith]

WHFB players: how about destroying whole your armies at once?

[@Mikey__R]

@@Haroith Kings of War did very well out of that situation. I wonder which game will pick up the veteran Space Marine players?

[@elwindil8566]

@@Mikey__R If they're smart, they'll all go over to OnePageRules, because it's a good ruleset and is miniature agnostic, even though they do have their own range of figures you can print.

[@ig1henryr]

Chaos marines will be next in the sunset.

[@Haroith]

​@@ig1henryr ha-ha! Mutilators are gone. Nobody regrets about them, they always were a piece of crap.

[@NickBennett-j2b]

The only real issue i have is that they didn't do this pre launch like they did with the 30k stuff. It's clear they didn't because they didn't want to because it would kill a chunk of the 10th hype. The range is so big that it needed to be pruned. If they had announced this pre 10th launch it would be a non issue, problem is they waited so people bought into 10th then found out a month later that chunks of their army were cut. It needed to be cut down but it should have been done before people bought data cards for the units that are now cut.

[@Cannonmaster24]

Oh look, it happened, like I predicted when Primaris Marines came out

[@meiketorkelson4437]

I just finished my Space Marine pile of shame literally an hour before the announcement. And now a good third of my army got moved to legends. It's frustrating because I feel firstborn will be next, and as someone who's collected for years, that's not a commitment I want to put the hundreds of dollars and hours into replacing.

[@hangarrat]

One Page Rules my friend. Keep those mighty warriors fighting.

[@AnHourOfWolves]

It does seem like they wanted to monetize as much as they could, for sure, at the expense of the customers.

[@timothylyons5686]

That means l can now take my jump packs off my old assult marines and put them on my assult intercessors, thus saving me £35.00. Well done Games Workshop.👍👍

[@sevatarlives185]

Last I checked, the multi-pack of old Jump Packs was still available 👍

[@timothylyons5686]

@@sevatarlives185 thanks for the heads up

[@thewaxman8751]

Man, with the last 3 Editions me and my current friend group who are heavily into Horus Heresy proxy units both 40K and HH and we just play 7th

[@gmanplaysgames256]

one other possibility. GW thought Space Marines would win the Oghram campaign, so the original plan may have been to lessen the blow of these units being removed by introducing new kits at the same time, but since the Tyranids won that threw a wrench in things. Also the datasheet thing, THAT'S HOW IT USED TO WORK in 5th edition, there was just a "Space Marine Captain" rule page with a stat block and you could upgrade him to have Terminator Armor or a Jump Pack as well as all the other weapon and gear options.

[@SirBrasstion]

If anyone knows where to find 3d prints of classic minis, upscaled to fit the new range, please let me know. I'd much rather have a slightly bigger Land Speeder with Space Marine Hero size crew than get a Storm Speeder.

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

Agreed

[@malakimphoros2164]

Cults3D

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

@@malakimphoros2164 You wanna specify that any? Naming conventions on Cults are wack owing to GW's lawyers.

[@malakimphoros2164]

@@scoticvsgossage9378 Maybe some heresy proxies from Aquilon or a mishmash of bits from different creators

[@txta786]

It's true. I went with age of sigmar because there's too much lore to dive into as a new player. Trying to figure which models are good when they basically all look the same turned me off combined with the prices. Lore is cool tho

[@heliusahmadian2711]

for the people who don't know the next Killteam will be Scout vs Scorpion (eldar)

[@keithadams1490]

So what do I do now with a complete White Scars bike army that I have been building for a couple of years??? This sucks!!

[@malakimphoros2164]

Play them with people that aren't assholes, maybe houserule something for them.

[@nicholaskovach2072]

I started like most kids back in the day as a SM player in 3rd. When I came back and found the primaris situation I knew it was worth looking elsewhere. I understand the point of doing it, but it screwed up my childhood army…But yeah it’s total crap to dump these minis after 10th dropped, and they should have just cut the lifeline for firstborn years ago.

[@Mikey__R]

I agree. Modern 40k just doesn't feel like 40k anymore.

[@adamduffield7782]

Just play your current space marine army with one page rules dark grim future, in this system, all old soace marines models are still supported

[@nicholaskovach2072]

@@adamduffield7782 unfortunately most got given away over time. I was hoping to recreate the army. I settled on Necrons now instead since I got out shortly before their codex dropped last time. But I might have enough models to play firefight instead of the full grim dark future

[@techadeptcrafts]

Yeah, feeling the sphincter muscles clenching. Started collecting Blood Angels in 1989. I have the 3rd company fully painted, half the 2nd base coated and the 1st company partially painted (though rebased off the old 25mm bases they came with). First Born are my go-to army for 40k. Looks like I will go to... a different game.

[@Bluecho4]

One Page Rules welcomes you.

[@davidwasilewski]

I’m waiting for this to begin happening to the Stormcast Eternals in AoS in a couple of years….. it’ll eventually happen again to primaris marines too. It’s what happens when you over focus on continual new releases for ‘favourite’ factions.

[@maxkircher4671]

"It'll happen to YOU" - Abe Simpson

[@Bluecho4]

I know, right? Every new edition, another round of new Stormcast battleline, leaders, etc. Yeah, they look better every time, but it still means they're bloating the battletome more and more. I wish GW would take an edition off. Preferably by updating the older kits. Just make new Liberators, that don't look like ass. With all the design sensibilities developed for the army since 2015.

[@cadiastands8]

One Page Rules. One Page Rules is the solution. Just going to post that everywhere. Another major issue with Primaris that NO ONE talks about is how they’re even out of scale with BRAND NEW Chaos Marine kits, which is absolutely maddening to those of us with hobby OCD.

[@sevatarlives185]

I was waiting, hoping to spunk a bunch of my pay on classic SMs this week. Scout bikes are great for Necromunda, Scout heads are interchangeable with Orlocks, Scout torsos are perfect as Heavy Carapace Armour with Respirator. I also wanted to bash the Scout Landspeeder into an Ash Wastes vehicle. All those kitbashes will be lost now, like mouldlines before assembly.

[@sevatarlives185]

Hopefully they are back for Horus Heresy at least!

[@bopaintsminis]

Hoping some of that stuff can be picked up at fire sale prices.

[@Mikey__R]

All these kitbashes will be lost in time. Like tears... in rain. Time to die.

[@TheTobaccoman]

Was waiting for this video as the insult was too great not to summon some scathing rebuke.

[@hayescharles45]

The Land Speeder model's execution broke my heart. As beloved as the Rhino or the Thunderhawk of old. A true servant and icon, ruthlessly killed without replacement (Stormstrike, whilst capable, is not fit to lace its boots as they say in football) after 20 something years of service.

[@smatting2627]

I’m dusting off my armies after a 10+ year break. But my Space Wolves are staying in their case because of this cash grab strategy.

[@euansmith3699]

"Gaddafi's Waffle Iron" sounds like the name of a logical fallacy. As a lapsed Catholic, I can confirm that I used to have a 25mm base; make genuflection kind of awkward. I hope that the new Space Marines get a Tactical Squad kit.

[@andywilson5828]

Firstly, who remembers the great pewter sell off? When GW had a discount IN STORE on ALL pewter models.... oh, the days of olde... Secondly, is it just me or is 40k turning more into magic the gathering? Legends are not tournie legal (like my all hallows eve card) and cards can be used to alter the game, and models are treated like a 1/1 token

[@thomaslewis5817]

i think what really annoys me is the fact that they should have done this at the start of 10th edition like when the index came out as she's not had the units in that they removing near me it would have given you a hint that maybe the removing it people have gone out and bought like 60 scouts because scouts are really good

[@warhammered6485]

So all the space marine guys I got in imperium magazine are all unusable...I'm thinking lawsuit.

[@WristedVintage]

The Catholic/ Protestant marine analogy is great but surely the primaris should have more flegs and a marching special rule if theyre protestant🤔🤔

[@louieluigi3914]

Those models are still legal in One Page Rules!

[@markgrehan3726]

Yeah, it probably had to happen, but with the oddly staggered approach, it really does seem like someone didn't have the courage to clean slate the Marine range all at once, but honestly, G.W. never does seem to know what the other hand is doing.

[@mikewhitaker2880]

really did NOT have to happen, what will all the 30K era players do now... last i checked their ain't no Primaris in 30K... ANYWHERE....

[@tunguskalumberjack9987]

I don’t know if this is the case anywhere else, but I bought a box of Scouts With Sniper Rifles at the Games Workshop store nearest me (I live in Connecticut, US). Except that I didn’t. On the box, it actually said “Scouts With Sniper Rilfes”, and I don’t know what a rilfe is. I asked the manager, and he didn’t believe me at first, until I showed him the box. Did anyone else ever notice that? Was that always how they were, or do they print them in different places where it could have gone wrong at one but not another? Apparently they were so embarrassed that they had to just discontinue them, and then the rest of the firstborn to boot. Sorry, everyone.

[@coolbritannia1979]

"Scandal!" This has been coming for what, 6 years?

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

Yes, but you don’t have to buy the new Primaris kits, just use the older stuff as counts as. He said ironically, before the inevitable tournament pack update.

[@Wolf359inc]

You know why (I know it was rhetorical, but anyway…). MONEY! I remember 40K before “data cards”, and everything was generic. It was great, for those who had even the slightest amount of imagination. You named your own chapters, vehicles, and characters. And they were unique. But there are always those who lack imagination, or are just too lazy, and want someone else to give some “individual” flair to their armies. GW saw this as a way to make extra bucks, and they never miss an opportunity to do that… Cheers,

[@phaedrosx]

Correction: Legends does not require opponent's consent (it did in 9th iirc, but there's nothing in any 10th documents that imply this), and GW has said Legends is good to go for non-competitive 40k, so unless you're practicing for a tourney, RTT, major, supermajor, etc. You are fine, unless your opponent wants to be a dick and not play you because they only want to play competitive, then fuck 'em.

[@idontwanttopickone]

New player buys starter set. Starter set contains Space Marines Vs something else. New player picks one of the two armies to play as and encourages a friend into the hobby by letting them play the other army or giving them the other army. So, all new players have a 50% chance of playing Space Marines. 50% of all new players then go on to buy space marines. Space marine sales go up. GW make more space marines to get more sales. Fans of 40k buy new models they like. Lots of new space marine models mean Fans will buy them more often and then be more likely to buy an army to go with them. GW see space marines are the best selling range and feel like they have to release more models and have to put space marines into the starter set. Cycle continues until GW only sells Space Marines.

[@seanreeb3937]

So I am going to throw something in here concerning the cost of models. For reference I am a mold making machinist for over 20 years in the medical field. The cost of Molds has skyrocketed in the last 10 years. We had to remake a cardiac suture mold that had been in service for 6 years. The cost to remake it was more that 7 times the cost vs when it was originally made. This is very concerning to GW given that each of these molds has a shelf life as I just said. A typical mold to do sprues of standard GW size here in the USA is around $150,000 USD. So when you get a vehicle that has 4 sprues you can see the cost skyrocket. And this is in the USA not the UK with it's VAT taxes on pretty much every step of the manufacturing process. Add in to this the massive worker shortages in skilled fields and you can start to see really big issues. And all of this is assuming the molds last the full life expectancy which frankly almost never happens. Most places scream bloody murder after having to pay for the mold production so they stick minimum wage workers running the molds which always leads to damage and repair ops which a lot of times costs almost as much as a new one. I can not tell you the number of times we got a mold done just to have it destroyed within a month of service because some dumbass decided to use a screw driver to unstick a sprue. This may not sound like a big issue but liquid plastic under tons of pressure (yes the unit value ton, not an exaggeration) will flash at .0002" or around 5 microns. every scratch and piece of damage has to be laser welded and re-machined. Retiring first born has as much to do with stopping repairing old clapped out molds and moving to new ones as much as it has to do with the game. Just my 2 cents, take it for what you will.

[@11AleZZ]

Good information, but that's not the reason, rumors says that new primaris kits are on the way, and that include jump pack intercessors, primaris scouts for KT and some kind of new outriders, also some of the retired kits aren't so old like the assault marines or the hunter (around 10-12 years old)

[@seanreeb3937]

@@11AleZZ I am willing to bet it is far more of a reason than you think. Not every product decision is a game decision. Every one of those molds has to be stored and maintained while not in use. Regularly refurbished with new perishable parts like guide bearings, insulator boards, knock out pins, springs etc.. every so many hours of operation. Yes they are phasing out product for new product. But I would be interested to see the manufacturing reasons behind it and not just the gamer view point.

[@11AleZZ]

@@seanreeb3937 sure, GW have a production problem for many years, that's nothing new, they need to cut off some of their catalog to maintain the volume of production and spend less money in repairs, but their last company report say that 90% of the money spend on molds in the last year, are for new models, and just 10% are for repairs.

[@seanreeb3937]

@@11AleZZ I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but you are currently supporting my point. Of course their repair work is down considering they were in a prep year for discontinuing a large chunk (and I suspect it is only going to grow) of their model line with space marines. I'll wager not an single sprue has been run off of those molds being binned since at latest Q2 last year. So yeah their repair work is down. You clearly have your opinion and you are free to it. I was just trying to shed light on the manufacturing side of it and do not wish to argue.

[@11AleZZ]

@@seanreeb3937 I'm talking about new release, GW now is almost all about new releases, they spend a ton on molds yes, but not in repairing or maintaining (that's what their company reports says), so this cut off it's almost 100% because new minis are on the way, and they need to focus in new minis

[@DeHerg]

Kind of reminds one of those scummy mobile gacha games, where they periodically change the rules to keep the players buys into the newest efficiency meta.

[@christomsharpe]

Yay slide whistles! Who knows what the rest of the episode was about?? I just listened to the whistle over and over! Play it backwards and it goes up! “Such fun” Miranda 2012 (probably… I’m not looking it up…)

[@cryptokev1759]

I have never been a Space Marine player but I always loved those Land Speeders - hope they stay in some fashion!

[@Haroith]

They exist. There is a primaris version.

[@cryptokev1759]

@@Haroith Yeah I'm not as much of a fan of that one :)

[@mogwaiman6048]

​@@cryptokev1759that's the one that's staying.🤷‍♂️

[@Haroith]

@@cryptokev1759 well, GW decided that you must pay for new minis and be fan of them. At last 40k players feel the same feelings that felt FB players. In 2014 was even bigger explosion - 'throw away all your armies, buy new Aos!'

[@SirBrasstion]

I have one from the 3rd edition box. Since the bare bones version in the Index is now useful as a spotter, I'm considering converting the pilots to Scouts so they fit in with all the nuscale Marines.

[@DamianBloodstone]

Last time I played was long ago. I have close to $2K in terminators alone. Then close to $500 in Space Marines and vehicles. There were no First Born in the first rules or the second ed. The sole reason for all these rules and models is to make money (greed) of a company. It is the reason I quit playing tabletop totally. Every company follows the same types of additions, rule changes, and models. Those mins now sit in cases collecting dust. It has become a rich person's game. Game Workshop total fail for me. I still collect miniatures but only as art pieces for myself to paint.

[@JC-gv6sq]

Sent this video to a friend who started collecting and playing space marines, friend proceeds to scream in White Scar fury

[@Arashmickey]

Arkhan Land, Belladonna Bike, and Machammer Parachute spinning in their graves right now.

[@liambunker8378]

Honestly I feel like the answer to the space marine problem would be to have a similar system to heresy were it's 1 datacard but you can add different armours so instead of primaris captain, captain with gravis armour and so on you just have first born and primaris captains with different data sheets

[@ghostcat5303]

Don't remember a massive furore when loads of CSM units got shunted off to 'legends' last edition

[@andrewamann2821]

I don't know why, but the base sizes for the Orange and Green kinda broke me... thank you, i needed that laugh...

[@escapebeyond7078]

this will happen to chaos too, world eater codex is missing so many classic csm units i suspect in 10th there will be no tanks or bikers :(

[@Bluecho4]

I agree on the idea of blurring the line between Primaris and Firstborn, so units can be either. "Tactical Marine" should be a description of a marine's training and role on the battlefield, not "is a Firstborn line infantryman". Just as "Intercessor" should mean "Bolter specialist", not "Primaris line infantry". And eventually, the fact that Firstborn and Primaris marines are different can be a quirk talked about in a sidebar in the SM codex. "Some Chapters or companies refuse to adopt the Primaris process, using the ancient Astartes creation methods 'made perfect' (so they say) in the days when the Emperor walked. Still, even these die-hards see the need to adopt training methods introduced in the Era Indomitus, to keep pace in Astartes initiation with the exigencies of war. Specialization is a necessary shortcut, in the face of overwhelming pressure from without...and within. Meanwhile, Chapters who fully embrace the Primaris process have had time to train initiates in the old ways, filling their ranks with flexible Tactical squads or Devastators."

[@ravenRedwake]

It probably means (like with the intecessors before them) that the outrider sargents will be able to get power weapon upgrades. As a reminder, the intecessor box doesn’t have any power weapons.

[@mikewicked.x]

It's a weird situation - my immediate thought on the announcement was that these were the models that they would have revealed if The Battle for Oghram had been won by the Space Marines rather than the Tyranids, and that it doesn't really matter. However this doesn't really make sense to me when i think about it for more than 30 seconds. I mean, if new primaris scale scouts and jump pack marines are indeed coming, why delete them from the options that can be taken now if they're just going to come back (or be functionally replaced) in 3-6 months when the new codex comes out? Even if they're sold out pending new models, just leave then as "temporarily out of stock online"... (It's not like they're afraid of using that banner. Just look at half the Gloomspite Gitz range for over 6 months now...) And then when they announced the new models, also announce then that all these models are going Last Chance to Buy, and that Scouts can be played as Reconissors, and Assault Marines can be played as Impactessors - etc. But until then, they should have just been left in play... Just seems like the only thing they achieve, is pissing people off.

[@Gumlass1]

The scouts are all but confirmed to be coming in a KT box (with Striking Scorpions)

[@thomasfauvie1364]

My entire army has been legends I have zero playable miniatures

[@zouavebro]

it sucks but it needs to happen. there's new tech in making minis and the designs change. there will be more minis coming to take their place. it's 2023 not 1993 anymore.

[@KameSennin4209]

It's current year, guys!

[@cronykil74]

The new minis have none of the charm and character of the old ones.

[@kellykuciemba6789]

No surprise, here. I have some sizable collections of original space marines. I'm fine using my older armies in 5th Edition/OPR/XENOS RAMPANT. You can find the rulebooks pretty cheap for 5th Edition. It's a complete game. I was pretty irritated when PRIMARIS Marines became a thing. Unsurprisingly I ended up buying multiple boxes that feature PRIMARIS and I have a nice sized army to build and paint. I never considered mixing them with FIRSTBORN. I knew the end of FIRSTBORN was inevitable. And it's an easy win for GW. Here I am with another Space Marine army. Even though I have a lifetime supply of projects. Can I hold to my current objective of playing only what I can get free in 10th Edition? I haven't even got a game in. Yet, the gears continue to grind. Thankfully I have NECRON I painted a few years ago that's still supported, otherwise these Editions are flying by too fast for me to keep up.

[@vilidious]

Once you deprecate most of the player's models, I'd expect the players to have a lot more incentive to move on to other armies/games. Especially considering how much of a labour of love building an army is. One does not simply euthanize a weirdly grown up child and expect the parents to happily birth and raise a new one all over again. Heck, they might just go on that neverending booze filled vacation they never could when the previous child was around.

[@rangda_prime]

"One does not simply euthanize a weirdly grown up child and expect the parents to happily birth and raise a new one all over again." They already did that... They took Warhammer Fantasy out behind the shed and shot its brains out. Then they introduced the new adopted cloned super baby to us and people bought in to it.

[@vilidious]

@@rangda_prime true, luckily i had by then abandoned my childhood armies... but when i was earlier this year (or so) thinking of coming back... AoS did feel like spitting on FB's memory and I only looked at WH40K and others. Ended up with Bloodbowl after being disappointed with Necron Codex.

[@MoRNiNGSTaR14125]

I'm honestly surprised out the wazoo that Chadsight got an update

[@billm9775]

Remember when marines had 'and they shall know no fear'? Those were fun times. I'm literally looking at my land speeders with hvy flamers and multimeltas, happy i can run that combo again as Sallies and now they drop the whole model......

[@timthorson52]

Maybe they should have instead merged space marine units into one. Right now we still have a fuck ton of different primaris units. So what can be done is merging them into a few units, and give them weapon options. For example, hellblasters are essentially classic devastators where they all use plasma equivalent, though not blast or as long range. So you could merge hellblasters, maybe heavy intercessors and 3-4 others into one squad, and treat the different gear as weapon options. That I'd basically what they had done for years with the standard space marines for decades. You had tactical marines with a couple squad members with special options, devestators with 4 with heavies, assault were basically standard marines with melee options, and maybe a few pistol options, as well as a jumpack option. That was another reason I avoided primaris, I had lots of weapon options i loved fielding in various situations even though primaris were generally better. Sone have fun poses, but others I put together were pretty standard.

[@KameSennin4209]

But then people would only buy the kits they need, instead of buying multiple $60 3-packs to get the loadout-variety that they want.

[@tomaskapel2287]

I feel for 3rd party retailer which got shafted and are stuck with obsolete models.

[@slaaneshhedonite7068]

I miss writing & working there… but many of the current changes are- less than fun. One drunken night at the pub Andy Chambers told me “if it doesn’t make the game more fun… DON’T DO IT!” About $700 bar bill that night. Aaaahhhh convention days.

[@Timberboar]

Is it wrong for me to be low-key happy that I'm getting some shelf space back?

[@Haroith]

Who said to you, that you would get your space back? Nobody will buy minis that cannot be played.

[@Hudston]

@@Haroith I suspect these minis were discontinued ages ago and they're only announcing it because the old stock is starting to run out.

[@bittergeek]

I don't understand the company trying so hard to drive their players to 3d printing. Dropping some decades-old Ork Boyz isn't going to upset the audience (because they have been buying random sci-fi Ork minis and kitbashing vehicles the whole time, because Orks.) But screwing with the marquee line, the Space Marines? Put down the bong, guys, the drugs have made you making bad decisions. If you make an announcement that you're discontinuing some old beloved minis, the press release should also announce the release of a bunch of new (expensive AF) sculpts to replace them, using the same damn rules. You still get to suck more cash out of your fans, but you don't push a chunk of your customers to 3d, lookalike mini companies, or entirely new wargames. People have options, folks. The fans can happily play a high point game with good looking "proxy" minis without a single speck of GW sprue, for a fraction of the cost. Being a dick only works long term when you have a monopoly.

[@MechbossBoogie]

Don't worry, guys. You're not going to have to buy a whole new army. Proceeds to drop half the range of Forge World and first born Space Marines. I should have ordered more bikers, I wanted them for heresy, because I'll be damned if I'm going to pay that much for forge world models. Legends is a bullshit term for "we don't have the balls to call these banned." Don't forget, the scout marines they had on the store were the same exact kit we're expected to use in Heresy and those are still in the current edition of the core rules, so now we have even fewer options for infantry.

[@OldGuyRetros]

Half of my Dark Angels are first born 😢😢

[@RSBurgener]

If they were just going to cull so many units from the range, why did they include rules for them in the index? It's a very short window of time. People got excited about playing with them again only to be told they're going away!

[@KameSennin4209]

They wanted them to spend more money.

[@Elazul.Lapislazuli]

I am on board if they consolidate some kits in to one like both scout types in one single box.

[@RogerS1978]

They definitely will but only give you enough sniper rifles and bolters to kit out half a unit in the box. Making it half shotgun half sniper.

[@ravenRedwake]

Proxying las/missile dreads for ballistus dreads would be kinda funny though.

[@paulmdevenney]

If it was just a matter of moving to "real scales", it would have been so easy to just say "we're not making the small ones any more, but they are still "tournament legal". It's insidiously clever getting the players to gate keep for you by refusing to play against your "last year" minis.

[@shadowmancy9183]

Should've curtailed Primaris instead, as that would've really sold the grimdark theme again- we made this thing that's better on paper, but it shat the bed after a few years and now we need to rethink the whole idea. Firstborn unit range was fine and gave a flexible play style with the same units. These cuts kill 1/3 of what I was building in for a competitive list, and there really isn't a good replacement for the Ironclad amongst the Primaris dreads. I got one tournament in before these went to legends, went 3-1 with pure Firstborn, and that'll likely be my only tournament this edition. There's just no Primaris replacement that does what I want from that list even tolerably well.

[@Mofflin1]

Do you hear that? That's the sound of BattleTech laughing.

[@MrMechinik]

I have an entire Blood Angles Rogue Trader era (9k points) on the shelf .. arghhh

[@kaczmarr100]

There can never be enough models of space marines. 11:51 The captain on the left is a standard captain and on the right you have him in gravis armour, so he's tougher

[@richarddespres8011]

So much for the Ravenwing armies out there. I mean, aren't those models the base for most of them?

[@lachlanmcneill5488]

GW cracked the gaming code for planned obsolescence avout 20 years ago and now they just dont even bother hiding it.

[@francineotama2282]

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." :- Gary Gygax

[@timothyharnedy4495]

I have at least a couple of different vintages of the assault marine models. I have ones with metal bodies and jump packs (and plastic arms/weapons) and the all-plastic ones, probably an earlier iteration of the kit just retired that had fewer weapon options, I'm not sure. In the past, GW simply released new version of these models as new versions of the same unit. What's interesting this time is that they are saying the current unit is going to legends, and so pretending that the new Primaris jump pack troops are something completely different. But, c'mon... They are a unit of space marine dudes with jump packs. They're not fundamentally different. Is the community at large really going to go along with GW's pretence that the new jump pack space marines are fundamentally different, and that a player with the old assault marines can't play with them using the rules in the Codex for the Primaris jump pack troops? That would be absurd, right? Surely that isn't going to happen? Right?

[@Tokumastu1]

GW shoving Primaris down everyone's throat all the while several other factions desperately need 2.0 for many of their models along with new models to refresh the line up.

[@allmyself666]

I dont play the TT but i was starting to look into buying firstborns to paint my budding homebrew, and then this shit happens.

[@dainthebull6527]

They did that with The Old World Warhammer Fantasy Dwaves. They out out new models and then around 6 months later canceled the game and put out Warhammer AoS where those models couldn't be used.