Games Workshop Just SCAMMED Everyone

[@DiscourseMinis]

Get PORT ROYAL here!! www.kickstarter.com/projects/firelockgames/port-royal

[@libertariansocialist7371]

As a Dark Eldar player who cant buy 1/3 of my army f you

[@manofaction1807]

Try to get these lads as guests on your channel... You won't be disappointed! Great bunch of Scallywags!

[@helbent4]

@@manofaction1807 That sounds like a great idea!

[@arnijulian6241]

If they wanted money they should just reprint the 2nd to 6th Gotrek & Felix omnibus books as read most of the 1st one but getting the rest in print is paper back let alone hardback is near impossible. I don't even understand why you lot that play the table top pay for anything from games workshop? They always F you in miniatures cost to quality when 3d printer would be a better investment though not my interest in the slightest. I only like Warhammer games & books as I got stuff to do outside this franchise. Can't skarsnik book for sell which I'd like to get for my brother as he is the only character he plays in Wh1-2. He dropped of for wh3 which can't blame him even though I enjoyed it from a sell back but Wh2 was better. Wh1=7/10 a very nice place it all began Wh2=8.5/10 as it got some kinks & factions that are awful to play. Wh3-6/10 but could understand a 4/10 even but it's alright though I thought it was fairly good. Played worse but I hope WH4 happens & they up their game. Wh3 even the DLC's besides the Dwarfs & empire I have no interest as nothing stood out like Wh2 that had so many fun factions especially Green skins as Grom & skarsnik were brilliant.

[@Weenerneenerchickendinner]

Just throwing it out there us in Mordheim community has been doing well w/out GW. Hell most of our figures aren’t even GW anymore. Yall don’t need GW anymore grass roots things like us.

[@alvisalendran]

Most of the old Specialist Games that are unsupported are doing excellent. Once GW stopped messing with games, they get the little bit of ironing out that they need and released into the wild! Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic, old Epic...wonderful games!

[@FinnGrimes-e3q]

Where can I find Mordheim gaming groups?

[@BlastbeatsBoltguns]

Myself and some friends have started a 3rd edition 40K group and are having loads of fun with it.

[@Allan_Lugia]

Morthaim seem har dto find players with.. atleast in DK.

[@alvisalendran]

@@BlastbeatsBoltguns I prefer early to mid 4th, just for the codex options, but it's great to go back to older editions

[@dendostar5436]

I gave up on GW and now I give my money to Hasbro. I’m fucking stupid.

[@benjamincarlson6994]

it's not too late to repent of your horrible taste in corporations

[@Zalinth]

That's funny because I gave up on Hasbro and now give my money to GW. Wait.

[@aoofmg6684]

Well... since GW has the former Hasbro CO... 😅

[@anxiety_elemental]

Hey I did the opposite!

[@veameal9725]

Oof

[@surnimistwalker8388]

Hasbro is over on the sidelines going, "Write that DOWN!, WRITE THAT DOWN!"

[@Hypnotic-tist]

God help us!

[@samgrygoryev2962]

40k players: first time aos players: yha you? 40k players: ''laughs hysterically'' no not my first time

[@Nathan-yn7fv]

😂 Real

[@XxSchattenRattexX]

yea, its not like we have this like 10 tiems or so in history of gw... sadly i must say that i started to play underworlds... since i like the models... Just wait for it to quit Underworlds 2... Anyway i bought them for opr skirmish so, im prepared.

[@samgrygoryev2962]

@@XxSchattenRattexX my guy you are so fucked it’s not even funny I salute you

[@SwordandStoneStudios]

What you talking about? Fantasy is the original casualty

[@DokturProfesur]

"So Games Workshop have just upset the ENTIRE Warhammer community!" Yeah it does sound like a Tuesday.

[@daerovius7535]

That's exactly why I keep to old WHFB and WH40K older versions and 3D Print everything, GW can rot in hell

[@LearnTrainPlay]

Nobody where I live wants to play old editions of 40k :( so I have to deal with the new stuff or not play

[@daerovius7535]

@@LearnTrainPlay That's sad ! Really unfortunate for you, sorry to hear about that

[@lagom3114]

At this point, I don't even bother getting the rules from games workshop anymore. There are plenty of people willing to upload and share the rules with everyone for free out there and until GW stops being absolute shitheads I will continue to do this.

[@gregoryisom7741]

they are not being different than they will ever be.... they have some positive press from SM2 the video game so they can afford any little complaints the plebs raise up as long as they are split amongst themselves. It's like stealing retirements from retarded nerds, oops i meant candy from babies.

[@pezpengy9308]

agreed

[@keegobricks9734]

Why even play them?

[@FinnGrimes-e3q]

Here, Here

[@kodosdh]

show the corporate what they do wrong by using and promoting their products, that will teach them a lesson guess they will change soon with all those people still playing the game

[@ianorzel6967]

I mean they've been doing it with 40k since 10th edition launched, so one would have to assume they'd do this to AOS as well. Hail wahapedia and new recruit!

[@mattbaxter688]

Wahapedia is key

[@janklevaivancic4263]

To be honest, I am surprised anyone was 'caught out' by this development; they did the exact same thing with 40k 10th - start with free-to-download Indexes and then gradually remove them as soon as Codexes for those factions were released. I don't even actively play 40k and AoS, but I downloaded all the Indexes for both as soon as they were released, because I knew from the start they'd be removed when related codex/battle tomes would be 'officially' released and I wanted to have the index at hand as a reference point or if one of my friends wanted to try it out and dragged me into it...

[@Dark_Jeff]

They TOLD the community they were going to do this in one of the preview articles for the new edition, its baffling people are acting blind sided. Its like running onto the expressway and then getting mad you got hit by a car

[@-VOR]

​@@Dark_Jeff 😂 right? Like wtf?

[@-VOR]

😂 why are they surprised a business would change it's mind and decide to make money on one of their products?

[@atbauchat]

Wait, haven't watched yet but this is literally how aos started. All the rules are free. Some of the rules are free. None of the rules are free.

[@Gamer-Drek]

I’m forever confused why GW still has a fanbase when Mantic or OPR are just sitting there like “look at our games, they’re pretty good and you can play both for less than AoS”. Idk, just confuses me why people want to be abused as a consumer.

[@dinobotswoop]

Totally agree. I stopped drinking the GW kool aid over 2 years ago

[@NightfallTH]

don't know about Mantic, but OPR is the definition of the "we have WH at home"-meme. Very lackluster compared to the original. Better being a slow GW consumer who buys few things from time to time and enjoy the real thing, than to make a rip-off your life's meaning.

[@Hcaz1113]

Not just manic and poor but reaper, Morg borg, black site studios. All better in every way

[@spartan117407]

Because the lore and model blow all competitions by FAR, they are hundreds of books building the lore of warhammer, no one else can do the same.

[@spartan117407]

I will also add that everyone that i know and myself, get all rule for free from the internet and i also got a 3d resin printer to complement the game

[@Centuries_of_Nope]

I'm a slut for the Emperor, always will be. But Games Workshop runs its business like an abusive relationship. Keeps promising they'll change, do something great, then do something that reminds you why you should leave. Then they promise they'll change, do something great, then do something that reminds you why you should leave.

[@aoofmg6684]

I left because of Dark Imperium and GW confirms my decision every week!

[@deltapi8859]

"I don't need hope anyway, I live in Ireland" Every once in a while I come back to this awesome channel and I hear this line and hear myself screaming out of laughter and wonder "what other insane lines must I have missed in the meanwhile".

[@TheBlastmeister]

Always remember: Tabletop Simulator let's you play the Warhammer tabletop games for the low, low price of $20. And it has all the models you could ever want.

[@OverlordZephyros]

I do both cause sometimes the real thing is better

[@retardedfishfrogs1]

Most people don't actually play the game, we just hoard miniatures...

[@TheScience69]

Wait, Warhammer is a game?

[@elisabeth5111]

Meh, at this point in my life I'm never supporting a company that gate keeps their games rules behind exorbitant paywalls (codex's etc). I mean selling dedicated lore books, maybe.... perhaps campaign books at most. As long as they don't have little essential rules squirreled away in them for everyone else anyway. Making it more difficult to PLAY your game is baffling in this day and age. For me OPR is my go to for now, maybe warmachine if it gets proper support under the new owners.

[@jsandra860]

One page rules. Those rules might surprise you.

[@MedicMarc22]

I’ve been championing them for the last two years. Fun system with maybe 30 models max

[@LRSD.Drakon]

Yeah left GW and there S**t behind long time ago

[@LinkiePup]

They're surprising... Surprisingly boring.

[@spartan2paintball]

The 2019 Apocalypse rule set from GW works very well! Paper rule books and paper/digital army information.

[@warp_machine9141]

@@LinkiePup Yeah, not necessarily a fan of GW, but i gave multiple shots at playing opr and it's boring as hell after a while

[@BOBSMITH-YouTubeStoleMyHandle]

I will just wait until someone uploads the book on PDF to the internet. I am not supporting this from GW.

[@user-ir6kq8pd6j]

Er… when are they being removed? Cos they’re like still available online as pdfs from warhammer community website…

[@Oreillion]

@@user-ir6kq8pd6j This is related specifically to the Skaven rules. Since the battletome for that faction came out, they removed the warscrolls in the app (for Skaven), en the faction pack (For Skaven) has also been taken down on the community website and is replaced with the "points sheet".

[@BOBSMITH-YouTubeStoleMyHandle]

@@user-ir6kq8pd6j I don't use the website. I only use books. The book should have been in the box, and by selling it separately I will just download a PDF for free online.

[@egnaroelprup]

​@user-ir6kq8pd6j much like the 40k indexes, it will be along with every battletome/codex The week it hits preorder it will disappear

[@shanerogers9609]

So glad I didn't buy the spearhead box, I was "this" close. Good thing their CEO got his raise, 700K in 2020 to almost 2 million annual salary. That's quite a raise he achieved in the last 4 years.

[@glensimpson]

We decided to take break from GW games over a year ago... I still haven't found a reason to come back. Why do people still play Warhammer, either AoS or 40k? The rules are bad & bloated (compared to pretty much everything else), the game has large chunks of boredom built into it, the prices are absurd, and the fomo sales suck. It's the gaming equivalent of being the victim of an abusive relationship. Other companies just treat players better... For example, even when AMG announced their new edition of Star Wars Legion (that they won't call a new edition), all of the new game and unit rules are free.

[@Narfstick-Snackyboy]

One wonders why anybody still bothers with GW, I started writing my own rules for 40K, and I had the sense to download the free datasheets before they were removed. GW doesn't want you to enjoy the game, they just want your money. I feel like there's a parallel between E. Macron, Blizzard and GW...

[@blw4089]

It's become a subscription service, like video games. It's ridiculous.

[@gunnarmuller2847]

Yeah, well, GW writes in its stock market report that “the aim of the company is to produce and sell the best minis”. Not to develop the best rules or tell the best stories. So, EVERYTHING around the minis is just marketing to make you buy more minis

[@Narfstick-Snackyboy]

​@@gunnarmuller2847 True but still, it's already an expensive hobby would you just be buying the miniatures, all this rules BS feels like an unnecessary obstacle. Personally, I've sworn to never buy a codex. Good thing I only have 1 friend to play with 😂

[@c.g.262]

Three words... ONE PAGE RULES

[@LearnTrainPlay]

sadly nobody willing to play that here :(

[@XxSchattenRattexX]

agreed!

[@trevorharvey6928]

@c.g.262 OPR is ok for a 40k alternative (although Mantics Firefight is better). Unlike 40k AoS is actually a decent game. Which makes this worse.

[@XxSchattenRattexX]

@@trevorharvey6928 yea didnt play mantics firefight, but opr is pretty solid. (also the skirmish has weaknesses)

[@nyekomimi]

Honestly, OPR doesn't provide the thing I liked in 40k. But then, 40k doesn't provide proper "your dudes" vibe anymore either.

[@PokkyJon]

The twist: the "gamer's" edition still has all the lore in it. It's just smaller text on smaller pages and softbacked. That's their concession to portability.

[@Hypnotic-tist]

So it’s the Diet Coke version of them then.

[@NQuick-bn7ts]

Games Workshop's practice of surcharges will continue to lose this company money and sway customer decision-making away from their products. None of my closest friends want anything to do with Warhammer. 1 out of a group of 20+ buys and paints the models, sad times.

[@adam346]

I am pretty sure crack dealers treat their customers with more respect and dignity...

[@diegorodriguez8355]

One pague rules rules, Planet Shark rules, Modulorka rules, Turnip28 rules, Quar rules. is time to a change.

[@chrisegonmusic]

Always glad to hear of the root vegetable

[@GreatSirSidIII]

Whenever anyone talks to me about warhammer I recommend they check out Turnip28, yet to play it but I'm having more fun building units and consuming lore for it than I have with warhammer for a while! Praise the root!

[@Kannac]

Quar's been fun. Team Yankee's been fun. Infinity's been fun. Malifaux was fun. Here's hoping we see some competition.

[@elmodiddly]

I must admit I became so darned sick of GW's prices and their disgusting tactics that I sold everything I had and have gone to Flames of War and Mantic Games. Frack 'em, there are so many alternatives available these days, it's almost embarrassing to stay shackled to GW's brand!

[@ian8477]

They should be trying to get players to spend that money on extra boxes of models for a new army, not rulebooks that quickly become obsolete. Think about it, if they didn't hike up the prices, you'd buy way more models and actually spend more money overall like how microtransactions are designed; those smaller transactions are easy to ignore, like that cup of coffee you buy from McDonald's every single day without even thinking about it even after the monopoly thing has finished. But with everything having higher and higher pricetags you gradually end up spending less money overall after a point, and are literally getting less product in the box for the same money as this time last year. I just picked up a box of three older cadian heavy weapons teams from my local hobby store, just because they were there, and these older guardsmen are still pretty cool. They were on sale, too, so that was nice. When thinking about getting some extra bits to use all the extra weapon options for, I saw that a single one of those weapon teams on eBay averages almost the same as what I paid for that box of three. You can build two weapons per set of sprues, because the mortar/missile has a different tripod, meaning I easily have 6 out of the box if I use the second kneeling guardsman as the gunner and just whack a normal guardsman on the base next to them, which reminds me I'll need dome extra bases; I could have some fun creating little dioramas out of them (imagine if one was even a brood brother, or chaos cultist, about to kill the other guard, ooooh!) he even doubles as the wound marker, lol. But the rules keep changing, so why would I buy a rulebook when I could instead buy that box of newer genestealers, which I did, because painting the old Space Hulk models reminded me that they got updated sculpts, and you cannot argue that they are an improvement. They were even on sale, too, which I didn't notice until after I had already committed to the purchase. But if all of these boxes of models, specifically designed to be cut up and glued and painted, are too expensive then at what point do these kinds of projects become too expensive to justify these purchases? I even thought a couple of the Space Hulk models of genestealers climbing on terrain would be fun additions to a heavy weapons teams base, creeping up on them, but... then my Space Hulk box is incomplete, and likely not a cheap model to replace. This is why people turn to 3D printing. The models are a canvas upon and with which to paint or tell a story, and push around a tabletop battlefield, with something always likely ro break during transport, which is fine because it can be glued back together no problem. Why must thee keep hiking up the prices? They won't sell for a million dollars a box, not and still be used for their intended purpose.

[@nrais76]

The idea is they can also force you to buy overpriced books by making them obsolete every year.

[@nrais76]

Also, as pointed out by our host, GW don't care about people who have been priced out of the hobby. More than one person I chat with at my FLGS has stated tournaments are full of single guys with six figure salaries. In fact, it's "too expensive" for an acquaintance of mine who does make six figures, married, no kids.

[@TheIronicRaven]

OPR looks better and better every day! Also, the prices of these boxes are hitting a point where its almost cheaper to buy a 3d printer than it is to buy the ENTRY level box!

[@MPC2160]

I expected the free rules to be pulled down as each book gets released so there is absolutely no surprise there. They've done this every time they release an index driven edition. What is the bigger concern to me is the lack of points in the rulebook if I understood their post correctly. The updates to unit point values have been free for at least a few years and make it much easier to jump into an edition partway through the cycle. It also makes it easier decide if I want to start a new faction. It will be very interesting to see what happens to the factions with books when point values get updated in a few months with the big balance change they always do a few times a year.

[@brettmanus7904]

Codexes have a points page. It's useless as it is at least 2 updates out of date. GW needs to take the next step. People love the indexes, so roll with it. Make the rules free like 10th and give everyone an index. Then do index updates. Put the additional rules on index cards. Each detachment gets 2 cards. One has rules and enhancements, while the other has strats. You could sell them in those cardstock envelopes they put the larger objective markets that came out alongside the PN cards. You could also include new cards like the Cultist Firebrand for CSM or reprints. The monetary barrier to entry is lower; making the game accessible to new players. GW still makes money; especially as their bread is made from plastic.

[@nickmurdaugh9856]

I kind of expected this. The free online releases seem like play test material so they can balance everything. Once they think it's good, they'll remove it all and publish it as a book. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[@astrozombie1505]

I'm glad you shared this news, I honestly was gonna pick out a spearhead box this weekend then transition into the full game. One of the biggest buying pros for me was the free rules over 40k's paid rules. No way I'm spending that much money just to play a miniature wargame.

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

Honestly Age of Sigmar is literally just Fantasy 40k with it's annoyingly large amount of rulebooks. Why do the sub-factions need their own rulebooks? Why can't it be Empire, High Elves, Dwarf, Skaven, Dark Elf, etc. like in the good old days when the factions were simple?

[@retardedfishfrogs1]

I think they wanted people to buy multiple factions... while raising the prices.

[@envynemo4170]

GW working hard to be the employee of the month at one page rules

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

Corporate greed in a nutshell. Honestly, you've done more for the Hobby than the Cult of GW ever did despite how much they claim that you "hurt the Hobby." You promote games that support miniatures from all 3 Warhammer settings and promote all new tabletop wargames as well.

[@LegerRon]

Am old skool Dwarf player. Can confirm all players were masochists. Hurt me more mommy GW. (also, AOS is a war crime)

[@tommeyler2365]

are GW and WotC playing from the same handbook?

[@christopheraaron1255]

Yes, the AAA game playbook.

[@nrais76]

GW has screwing over their customers since the 90s. Hasbro is new at this.

[@tommeyler2365]

@@nrais76 so hasbro wishes it was GW

[@NormandyFoxtrot]

I mean to be fair, I don't think GW has ever unleashed the pinkertons on anyone.

[@tommeyler2365]

@@NormandyFoxtrot ya know I'll give you that one. I was surprised they still existed

[@Lomhow]

"You can call my dealer!" 😭😭😭😭

[@thelonesomedrummer351]

So! To play a decent game of AOS, you now need to buy: 1. models for a 2000pt army 2. faction terrain, which costs no points in game 3. Your chosen faction's endless spells, which also cost no points in game 3. Universal endless spells, as they are better that the faction-specific ones (of course so GW can manipulate you into giving them more money) 4. Battletome for your faction 5. If you want to take 1 unit from a allied faction, you also need the full battletome for that faction 6. If you have Warhammer+, you still need the battletomes to access rules. Warhammer+ is the most illogical and pointless subscription I have ever seen

[@vilidious]

You also need to paint the models over a period of many weeks/months, along with all the necessary supplies, workspace, lighting, permissions from your significant other (if any), etc. Then, you need to have another person that has either already done the same himself, or is willing to do the same... or fork out the cash/work required yourself and beg them to play against you sometimes. During the age of immediate gratification from YT procrastination, video games, etc.

[@jerattrolston850]

​@@vilidioustheres litteraly no need to paint for the vast majority of players. The only time it matters is if you plan to play in tourneys that require it

[@ARMSMASH]

After games workshop essaintly delete half of my stormcast eternal army, I have slowed down what im buying painting what I hjave. But it some what has slowed my intrest as Ik now at any point they could just delete half them odeles in any of my armies in any of the games. It just creates a major chilling effect.

[@atmas1337]

GW trying to use their fans to summon Slaanesh or something

[@erictighe1683]

Take all your GW Minis over to Mantic rules or One Page rules, both have Fantasy and Sci-Fi lists for all the armies. Honestly though Mantic tilts more to fantasy, and One Page covers more of the Sci-Fi armies. While I buy, used or discounted GW minis, I haven't bought any of their rules since 2018. Edit that: I did buy Horus Heresy, but no plans to buy anything else.

[@truthseekerdude]

Honestly, at this point it's really just more sensible to buy a cheap 3d printer and play alternative games like OPR, Marcher, Quar, etc. instead of waiting for James Workshop to bleed you dry, de-list your army, and then force you to buy a new edition.

[@Vinterloft]

I was at Outland in Oslo just a week ago. On the floor next to the Warhammer section was a veritable pyramid of stacked Skaventide boxes with maybe a handful missing. I was discussing something else with one of the staff as we walked around it and blurted out "wow, they must really be pumping these out" and he said "Haha I don't know, these are still from our first batch". So later I inquire if I could jump on the preorders for Hivestorm (Kill Team) and he basically said there was no point as the list exceeded 2-3 times their probable allotment already. My takeaway, if you're angry about being pushed around for your Age of Sigmar money, just be happy the game hasn't been squatted altogether.

[@derrickjohnson4952]

3D printer and pictures of the old books go brrrrrrrr

[@worldwideoptimism]

The prices for those minis is NUTS!!! Thats the price i would pay for painted metal models...

[@chaoscultist5679]

If you had any idea how much it actually costs to commission painted minis 😅

[@BlizzAz]

No one here plays AOS or 40K anymore; we all moved over to OPR. No one asks if anyone is playing 40K on Thursday (club night), they ask after Grimdark Future or Age of Fantasy. Half of us are 3-D printing (for ourselves or others) and half are proxying in things. GW has lost us, and we aren't the only ones...

[@scolack123]

And then my two local stores (two different towns) have huge warhammer gamer populations

[@BlizzAz]

@@scolack123 for now at least. But for every one person that comes in and plays, you gotta wonder how many play at home or clubs and DON'T play GW games.

[@MrGBH]

Just because we knew it was going to happen, doesn't mean it's a sensible decision

[@chadnine3432]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a thousand times, and I'm just a sucker.

[@thedourkin]

I really hope this video isn't demonetised because I've never had to watch so many ads in 15 minutes before.

[@phutureghoste1336]

Consider moving over to OPR! Free basic rules, or the main book for like $5. The list builder is also free and easy to use :)

[@miniaturefun-guy]

I stopped playing GW games two years ago. I just come here occasionally to see if they’ve changed their ways.

[@thepun3721]

come to OPR, base rules are free, the whole book is crazy cheap and with the whole book the game is waaaaaay more tactical, its got crit and weather systems lol

[@Impirator]

This is what I like about Corvus Belli. All their rules for their Infinity table top game are free and opened on the internet (for now at least.)

[@bartekkucharski3880]

If you remember when AoS was introduced they said that in the future they plan limited runs of miniatures and books. And they do what they promised.

[@manofaction1807]

GW dicking over the customers? It must be a day that ends in Y.

[@midnitepagan9118]

I still think 3rd ed 40k was the best edition for streamlining 40k. If you remember how messy armour penetration rolls on a vehicle roll (D20+D12+2d6 etc). Or how overpowered the characters were. In 3rd edition Characters were tough but not overpowered and could actually be killed by mass fire power from a good unit of troops.

[@christopheraaron1255]

I'm afraid this was always going to be the case. They took away the free rules for AoS 1st ed, very sneakily. They are shit heels.

[@Shifthoof]

"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further." - Games Worksh... I mean Darth Vader.. sorry., sorry... mixed up the two Bad Guys again. :D ;)

[@Arashmickey]

Poor great Uncle Albert, another casualty of the deadly question "Wenn ist das Nunstück gift und Schlösser Meyer?"

[@kentgurel1239]

Saw this with 10th edition of WH40K in the same method. Free rules until the first codices came out...then everything vanished.

[@jerattrolston850]

"Everything vanished". No it did not. The core rules are free. And until an army has a new codex come out, their rules are also free. It sucks needing to buy the book to get access to something when it does come out, but at least know what youre saying lol.

[@Renfield286]

As a Skaven player, I'm shifting over to onepagerules and warlords of erehwon

[@stevenmcgrath5114]

Upon reflection, I realize that I might have been hard on the GW fanbase, It is easy to forget the passion of the tabletop fans, especially Skaven players 😃 As a West Irishman I cannot abide the bullying that GW almost constantly engages in with the very players who sustain GW ! Discorse, keep doing God's good work in exposing the malfeasance that GW continues to perpetrate ! ! !

[@cameronward9443]

As someone who has played since before there was an internet, I'm used to the battletome/Codex paywall... however... I ALWAYS pirate the shit out of everything. I buy codex/battletome's for my current armies, but if I'm curious about what chaos is doing over there.. I just pirate it to take a peek at their rules. Locking out basic rules behind a paywall is just going to force people to do this, because if you're preparing for a tournament you're not going to spend $1000 to buy all the codex's to research the other factions abilities.... it's just silly.

[@FullMetalPanicNL]

As a 40K player I knew this was only a matter of time. From 9th to 10th the removed ALL the stats of all the factions you don't have unlocked. You used to be able to see the stat line, now you can't. I can still see the Spearhead stuff though so that's not gone.

[@ian8477]

I just realised something, when you mentioned thst now "buying into 40k sucks"... who else bought that Rogue Trader rulebook recently? I only skimmed through my copy, and it was before my time, so genuinely, how fun is it to actually play? Because I've always wanted to try it out. The original source rulebook for our beloved grimdark sci-fi setting. I think the time has come.

[@581daform]

I am enjoying OPR. I feel like I have to have a master's degree in GW wargaming with thier rules.

[@kipicbloud]

Had this annoying conversation with my buddies on our LGS Discord. Someone mentioned New Recruit for list building and war scrolls, and one of the employees nuked all the comments and stated, "This is piracy, and as a business partner of GW, we cannot allow discussions of piracyon the discord"

[@nevertell7629]

Sadly GW will get the money they wanted! The community will cry and complain but still give them money to validate the 1000’s of dollars they have already spent and GW knows it

[@geoffgrigg381]

Wait we are confused and surprised AOS is now on the same business model as 40K? There are two options 1. Just buy it and play it (a lot of people will do this). 2. Boycott stop buying all GamesWorkshop stuff and play other games or save your money for something else. But being shocked that this company that doesn’t listen to its players isn’t really a good idea.

[@smatta84]

So I think the reaction to paywall rules was milder than it will be when Stormcast roll out very soon. Lightning boys are far and away the most popular faction, so when they lend their outcry to the chorus of rats…I’m hoping the dissent reaches critical mass

[@timalder8940]

I backed Port Royale on kickstarter when I saw you mention on one of your earlier most excellent videos !! thanks for the recommendation I can't wait to get my hands on it

[@TylerProvick]

This sounds really bad. I guess I'll continue to play Infinity with it's free rules and free army builder and free tournament pack which enshires my right to proxy a miniature at the highest level of tournaments.

[@garrym5682]

This is very small beans historically. With WFB2 back in the mid 80s - this was a game that basically people bought and never played. At the time people basically only bought citadel minis to collect and paint but never actually used them for WFB. The reason? The game was almost unplayable without the Ravening Hordes army lists, which not that many people owned. And when you bought any bound book made by GW in the mid 80s - including the 1st Ed of 40k, the book instantly self destructed when you opened it with all the pages falling out because they used the cheapest possible process to try and glue books together.

[@garrym5682]

WFB was a game that wasn’t really playable standalone. You could give it a brave go at anything under 200 points - basically a skirmish, but it was working out what those points meant. Also half the troop types weren’t properly described in the bestiary. In the age before the internet GW really really had you. If you didn’t own the content, you didn’t own the content full stop. After White Dwarf went fully in-house, a lot of rules were only found in WD and you were tied to a pen and paper subscription package. A good example was the elven wardancer. This was not described in the base game and if you tried to add frenzy to a base elf you got a point value that was either too high or too low because the elf base PV was higher than most other creatures. So for any army bigger than about 250 points you’d be completely out of kilter and spending far too little / too much on one troop type and this wasn’t fixed unless you bought Ravening Hordes or a particular issue of WD. Things didn’t get a lot better with WFB3, but at least that game was playable. The army lists were also designed entirely to encourage the purchase of citadel minis. This was never more obvious than when the “numbers of chaos” were 6,8,7 and 9. Like - why wasn’t it 3? This was lore invented solely to drive sales.

[@Zeitgeyst]

Welcome to the next wave of players trying out one page rules, just to check if it is fun also. 🎉

[@simonpark843]

I haven't played anything by GW since the second version of 40K but I still paint the odd miniature. I still keep an eye on GW related topics out of a sense of nostalgia. Your videos are always entertaining and you always make me smile, so thank you.

[@moonnightbricks3948]

Lol.... they are running a business. You can leave anytime you want.

[@freddyaxebear7547]

My buddy and I are getting into Warhammer, starting with Age of Sigmar. We're splitting the Skaventide bundle, I'm taking skaven cause I like them. We still plan on getting into the hobby but we're hoping they reconsider this. I personally prefer physical copies over digital when I can get them, I guess I'm just old school like that. Typically I get digital copies if I need to, and if its good I'll hunt down a physical copy because its just more comprehensive for me for whatever reason, that and I see it as a way to support the company that makes things I like.

[@nicksmith1415]

Oh🥺 daughter and I picked up the skaven starter after deliberating forever on what game world to enter as total novices to table top gaming. It's unopened and I have the receipt. We were going to unbox and work out who's who. Going to give that a miss and return it. I've also got a new resin printer which we're going to set up. Plenty of very similar models and as others say there's one page. Honestly though I was childishly excited to find out what AoS is about.

[@kentocogburn4553]

List of better rulesets than 40k or AOS 30k Battletech Alpha Strike SAGA Command Decision Bolt Action Blood and Plunder Blood and Valor Star Wars Legion Star Wars X wing fan rules Warmaster and it's derivitaves(Blitzkrieg commander, Blackpowder) Chain of Command Infinity N4(soon to be N5) Rommel Rules Field of Glory DBA and it's derrivitaves(DBM, Triumph!, ADLG) Pre 8th ed 40k Have never played but have heard good things about WHFB 4e Pretty much any other ruleset designed to be a good ruleset and not a vehicle to sell overpriced miniatures.

[@murraymincemeat]

option given in this video is sail the high seas and the other option is sail the high seas (wahapedia)

[@robinfox4440]

The mobile phone app and the QR code thing is a problem in 40k, too. And requiring a WH+ subscription to access it too is just... so peak fucking GW.

[@hobbycathartic]

Can't wait to see how the GW apologists rationalize this.

[@user-ir6kq8pd6j]

Er… I’ll have a go - they’re like still available online as pdfs on warhammer community website. How’s that?

[@trevorharvey6928]

Except they aren't. The points are there (the index units version), but the faction pack has been removed.

[@user-ir6kq8pd6j]

Even if you are right (which you’re not - see link in previous comment) that would be 1 faction out of approximately 15. Discourse clearly says ‘faction packs’ as in they are all gone. Simply not true. Furthermore she says the rules you need to play are gone. Again simply not true. The rule books are available as pdfs still. But hey Discourse fans, don’t let something as inconsequential as the truth get in the way of your GW bashing…

[@trevorharvey6928]

@user-ir6kq8pd6j the faction pack for skaven has been removed from the warcom website. Only the skaven, because that's the only faction with a battletome. No doubt the others will get the same treatment. Also, I'm just replying on a matter of fact. It's just a shame as the free warscrolls made the game so much more accessible. Worth noting the special rules were always pay walled though.

[@jerattrolston850]

Not really being an apologist here, or rationalizing it, But 40k has been doing this exact system, and GW said AoS would follow suite. Does it suck? Yes. Did we know it was coming from the begining? Also yes. So just MAYBE this time the players should stop the suprised pikachu act and stop buying product from GW

[@myprivatechannel1695]

The only real competitor (lore-wise), would have been MUTANT CHRONICLES. It was so good.

[@brodozer2515]

This is why i 3d Print aaand we use OPR, they are superior, lots of fun and allowes custom unit and armies :D

[@severdislike4222]

Settra the Imperishable does not die without making Settra everyone else's problem first. Chariot charges GO!

[@sqidvishus]

You are so awesome and I love your videos here and on Dungeons and Discourse. Thank you for all you do and the brilliant sense of humour you bring to every topic.

[@garfieldv2]

No one should be surprised. Of course they were always going to lock everything behind a pay wall. My mate and I played a few games of 40k 10th since it came out. The army building app was limited compared to OPR. Once I couldn't use my Space marines I knew all the armies would be locked unless I bought something. I live in hope that I can convince my mate to switch to OPR.

[@Micaenes]

Yeah, I just strategically acquire my rules anymore. If GW wants to play the “pay for everything”, I’m playing my own game.

[@NathanielPayday]

So, I mean, like... literally just what they've been doing with 40K for years? Like, as a 40K player, I genuinely didn't know you could get AoS rules for free. This is literally just GW doing what I thought they were already doing, to be honest...

[@jerattrolston850]

You get 40k rules for free too. Every army was free access until the army book came out. Age of sigmar is exactly the same. Free core rules, free army rules (until the book comes out). This is just a cobbled together video to upload so the algorithm dosent set her back.

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I just left GW products outside of some legacy stuff like Gorkamiorka and Mordeheim and moved to MCP, Star Wars Legion and Battletech. Rules are free and while some minis are still expensive I do not need that many.

[@elGordo1888]

To paraphrase the strap line used in Kaos, 'Fuck Games Workshop'

[@DiscourseMinis]

that show rocks :D

[@shadowkras]

Thats why tools and sites like newrecruit and battlescribe thrive. GW's greed knows no bounds.

[@sirguy6678]

Great video! Remember the GDW motto- “when you do something well- don’t do it for free.”

[@Dandyphonic]

Isn't that the basic rule of any person or business outside of NGO? People seem to forget they had to stop warrhammer fantasy because it didn't work well enough. Now they are making money and we are angry? ... lol

[@angelnaranjo7534]

Games Workshop promised to shareholders, 1000 millions for 2024. Great job GW.

[@heads2gether]

I have to agree with you on this one Discourse. I wonder though, could AoS be 'maturing' the way FB did, where GW is trying to get more money from the existing players as growth of the game slows

[@SlavicMoose]

I'm not saying there's a game with a single page of rules.........ok yeah I am

[@AndrewofCaliban]

Okay I honestly want ready for your first complaint today to be basically a codex or core rule book to play... Come on you've known GW long enough to have seen this coming... We're lucky they don't charge for the air in the box with the sprues or separate instruction manuals at a small fee

[@ContractualStrategy]

I would recommend that people try playing a game called SOVL: Fantasy Warfare. It is like old world Warhammer, but what if the people behind the game didn't try and steal your soul in order to play it.

[@TheSympathize]

Games workshop is a publicly traded company and its share price is determined by year over year growth- think about that. If you’re ever left scratching your head about their decisions, it basically boils down to generating more profits where they can.

[@lilv3966]

I thought you said GW ended last month……..