Game Theory: Are the FNAF Books Actually Canon?

[@marcusmaiben6976]

"Fustrated with the lack of clarity with this franchise" You, me and and *literally* anyone and everyone who heard of fnaf

[@ControversialOpinionGuy]

So painfully true

[@ceregpurpleguy2906]

@@marcusmaiben6976 yeah, it's like Scott himself doesn't surely know FNAF lore and he's making ridiculous things.

[@deepsea5348]

Yeah, that checks out considering how long the Fnaf analysis genre as lasted on KZbin 😂

[@jaoofy]

Scott flips a coin every few months to see if he wants to imply the books are canon or not

[@ItsVerum]

He confirmed the Tales of the pizzaplex and stitchwraith books are canon about 3 years ago, and he seems to have doubled down on that in the Help Wanted 2 DLC

[@jaoofy]

@ItsVerum must be getting really lucky coin flips then

[@Deathangel6590_gaming]

I love this it seems like something scott would totally do. He just has a wheel of trolls he spins every few months to see what trolls he should do

[@jeremymorris345]

​@@ItsVerumI'm pretty sure that was proved fake.

[@Zipline2009]

​​@@ItsVerumwhere

[@fourstrings4164]

"An important and relevant character like Mrs Afton" A character so important and relevant, she's never shown up and we only know she exists because William has kids

[@traehignight]

And even then there are clear parallels between Vanessa's parents and the Aftons(no not a parallel in the misused way Game Theory and other channels throw it around), which is important because that likely means that Mrs. Afton is already dead(Vanessa's mother unalived herself after losing the custody case). By all means it is ludicrous that such an idea was taken seriously by their own team

[@VanNessy97]

They never even gave her a name

[@ender01o66]

@@VanNessy97 Jenny:

[@GameofMatias]

@ender01o66made by the fans

[@ender01o66]

@@GameofMatias Not Minecraft Jenny. 😭

[@GamerBeastBoy10]

me when im in a "make the lore of your game nearly impossible to learn" competition and my opponent is scott cawthon:

[@михаиликкозлов]

It's basically retcon versus spoiler race. And retcon side definitely cheating.

[@ceregpurpleguy2906]

@@михаиликкозлов agree, retcons sucks

[@WitheredCircle]

the books actually make things easier but ok

[@GamerBeastBoy10]

@WitheredCircle yeah well uhhhhhhhh uhh uhhhhhh well uhhhhhhhhhhhh i cant read (im lying)

[@Trontotario]

@@GamerBeastBoy10You can’t or you don’t want?

[@NovaKnight_]

I genuinely think Scott needs a theorizer insider (with an NDA if he’s scared of spoilers spreading) to help him organize his lore because I feel like he adds things but can’t keep up with all the dumping and stories he’s done over the years, and then uses the vagueness and discrepancies as a way to say “yeah I made this confusing on purpose for the theorizing community” rather than making a cohesive mystery story that’s carefully revealed to the audience.

[@WolfEyes88]

It could even be MatPat since he is retired now if he wanted to.

[@risingofthethorn1197]

yeah this is why I'm hoping the movie keeps things simple and consistant like the first movie was. Fnaf as a series was broken LONG before security breach.

[@DoxeadordeFurros-c10u]

​@@WolfEyes88 "What if Scott kidnap MatPat"

[@Tyler-q3k]

He just needs to end or reboot this franchise at this point, because nothing makes sense anymore, for all we know, that evil Subway guy built the Pizzaplex.

[@Xenterik]

Exactly, now we got more obscure questions about a lot of new stuff rather than answers about the original plot

[@cooperace27]

This will probably get buried but the sewing discord graphic and animation at 22:50 had me giggling. Thank you to whoever put that together. Sure its sowing discord not sewing but infinitely funnier this way.

[@OrtonLongGaming]

Scott made a reddit post a while back (around Help Wanted) saying the games WE PLAYED are NOT the games Steve Snodgrass made.

[@Pulsarnix]

That's very helpful. Can you find the link to it? It'd be great to be able to read it.

[@derkrischa3720]

So FnaF 1-4(6) are still canon? There are haunted Animatronics? There are Henry, Michael and William? There is Charly/the Puppet? I hope so, because we would loose so much foundation, if these were not to believe

[@redwiltshire1816]

That’s not confusing at all

[@KristijanH]

Is that true?

[@Abdellatif_Yassoub]

​@KristijanH yes!

[@TinyTingus]

Nothing brings me more Joy than seeing Tom lose his mind and sanity to FNAF lore and connecting the dots with the books and games.

[@100PercentHuman-d9b]

Just like Mat before him

[@chicabear]

This is the true reason Mat retired, he didn't want to be the one that that decides if the books are canon or not

[@callmethecommentcountess9329]

Joined the book club

[@chaosbeam4654]

@@TinyTingus the passing of the torch

[@chibigoji5080]

Mat has truly passed the torch (and his FNAF madness) on to Tom

[@technofurs]

The issue I have with the comparison between the novels and the newer books is that the two are ENTIRELY different in context. The original novels are purposefuly made to be their own timeline and it's clear, because we see each event happen or hear about each event from the beginning to the end of its timeline. The fnaf novels are their own stories with narrative arcs, a clear timeline, and without any holes. On the other hand, fazbear fright books are snippets of a timeline with no context to fill in the gap. We skip from TMIR1280 to the stichwraith epilogues to frailty to afton's amalgamation death WITHOUT anything in between. The truth is, we obsessed so much about knowing if these books are canon to the games that we forgot to ask if the games are canon to these books. Because THEY ARE. Without the events FROM THE GAMES, 1:1, the fright universe makes no sense. Without FFPS and UCN, the epilogues don't make any sense. What happened to that ancient fire site and the owners of fazbear's? The books don't tell- the games do. What is springtrap and why is there a corpse inside of it? The books never tell. The games do. Where in the trilogy of novels, each character is explained and rationalized and shown, in the newer books, you need to know what happens in the games to know why the books happen. And if the games are canon to the books, then the books are canon to the games.

[@traehignight]

Finally a good take.

[@Mockingdragon]

That's a really interesting way to look at it, for sure. I don't think it's one to one - it can be that the games' events happen in the books' universe and not vice versa. But yeah, the books barely make sense even when they do rely on the game events

[@TheHaddonfieldRegistry]

​@@Mockingdragonyeah, tiers of canon is always implied, which means main medium first, expanded material second. The books are not the main medium of the franchise, so yeah, if you read the books you need the games, but you don't need the books for the games.

[@idamcclendon930]

I’ll say this again from what you’re saying is exactly what Scott mentioned years ago “THE BOOKS AND GAMES ARE BOTH CANON BUT THERE SEPARATE TIMELINES IN THE SAME UNIVERSE” besides it’s technically proven irl has infinite number of separate timelines where different events happen to any of us!

[@traehignight]

@@idamcclendon930 That statement was only aimed at the original novel trilogy, Scott himself said that unlike the original trilogy, some of Fazbear Frights directly connects to the games. Tales from the Pizzaplex and interactive novels are fully game continuity, stop cherry-picking a 9 year old statement that was never about the books as a whole.

[@chaosbeam4654]

I genuinely don’t think Cawthon himself knows

[@GoofyTophlover]

I mean I'm pretty sure on the back of those books or something says that they are stories....but yeah that is possibility

[@Nobunaga4]

To be fair FNAF was never planned to be this big of a franchise. It was just supposed to be his last attempt at making a game.

[@Castersvarog]

Like for all we know only some stories could be canon.

[@chaosbeam4654]

@@Nobunaga4 he’s also had several years to figure it out

[@gatoconstandqueparaeltiemp712]

If you actually read the books you'd realise they're screaming at your face that they're canon

[@Andwooooo]

this theory hurts my soul as an og fnaf fan, but it would kinda fix fnaf going forward if the first four games aren't totally accurate to what actually happened

[@edu8188]

So you can relax,because they are. The games Steve snodgrass made are in the First Help wanted and they lacked The paychecks Newspapers Golden freedy THE MINIGAMES The only THING Steve made UP WERE their gameplay,ALL of the other things i Just mentioned are not in the Steve games,so they are still Canon

[@Joshchive]

Scott confirmed ages ago that Help Wanted wasn't meant to retcon the first 4 original games, it was so canon characters can be alongside non-canon ones. Not to mention, we know both Pizzeria Simulator and Sister Location happen for a fact, and both Pizza Sim and Sister Location feature scenes from FNAF 1, 2, 3, and 4.

[@loganentertainment1814]

Yeah.

[@victoriavidaud]

⁠@@edu8188so… the games they got in universe weren’t any good. 😂 Which begs the question of how helpful in universe were those games if they weren’t even as accurate to the “actual events” as the games that we have are?

[@Tsuki_Yomi0]

dawg im with you the new storyline is frustratingly annoying the amount of retcons have been the same as well

[@Nellie-g3r]

Scott, in my opinion, merely creates the games and lets the theorists create the plot.

[@LucasTF]

Nah. Not really.

[@accountsnames2614]

​@@LucasTFLet's be honest. Scott lost the plot long ago.

[@Teoriak]

Its was always wrong

[@Khloe.6102]

@@accountsnames2614Yep, he isn’t a great writer that’s for sure

[@William11987]

​​@@Khloe.6102 No he really is a great writer but the problem is that a one man created all these 7 game (or 8 if you count fnaf world)

[@Epilef1001]

1:26 My name is Edwin, I made the mimic. It was difficult to put the pieces together.

[@YeahImRealz]

But something went so wrong

[@YeahImRealz]

1:51 MY NAME IS DAVID

[@artist0154]

yeah most of this fanbase is less about "the story is going this way" and more about "how do I twist what the games/books are telling us just to fit my narrative?"

[@stargazersdance]

@@YeahImRealz DAVID. THAT IS MY NAME. DAVID

[@bouncycaptain1361]

I can’t take the names David and Edwin seriously anymore

[@SamulationCosplay]

I personally believe that the books are how Scott tests story ideas. How the fans perceive them, whether or not they'll work, what theorists have to say about them. Then depending on what he sees, he'll start bringing stories into the games. That's why we're seeing more of the mimic and absolutely nothing stuff like Fazgoo or Felix the shark

[@damkylan3]

The difference is that the Mimic was immediately set up for a major role from the beginning of Tales that was intended to be followed up on throughout. Definitely not a test idea. While Fazgoo was a one-off plot, and Felix the shark is a cut story.

[@ButchPleaseImFabulous]

@@damkylan3why does he still get to call stories “cut” when he still published them within the same series

[@superbigotefan9187]

The faz goo is too different, which is just a story to mimic that has several stories and all the epilogues lol

[@damkylan3]

@@ButchPleaseImFabulous Because the final book of the series was marketed as a collection of stories that didn’t make the cut. lol

[@isauldron4337]

​@@superbigotefan9187it's also too weird and adds a Lot of questions

[@phoneguy4637]

I see one tiny flaw in this theory: Mimic says to Cassie: " I-I'm Gregory. " this very sentence is EXACTLY 1:1 the same phrase Gregory gives to Glamrock Freddy at the very start of Security Breach. this means that *Mimic learned Gregory's voice by spying on Glamrock Freddy* . which, in turn, may mean that Gregory had never encountered Mimic.

[@samurexatlas7373]

The HW2 update also had a cheeky reveal on the building. The Bear of Sun and Rabbit of Moon. Sun and Moon are representations of Emily and Afton. Henry keeping things in order, and William punishing those he deemed in the wrong.

[@zenvariety9383]

Not to mention that Henry's surname is probably Murray.

[@solarsunne4950]

@@zenvariety9383 Not true.

[@derekmartin5340]

@@zenvariety9383 its really not...

[@cyberpupplays]

It's also cute because Sun Bears are a thing and rabbits are associated with the moon in a lot of folklore

[@artbyphobia]

Smarttt

[@v1ct0rygames32]

14:01 that's describing one of the Gen 1s from Bobbiedots, NOT The Mimic from the epilogues. Mimic from the epilogues is described in epilogue 1 and (besides missing the rabbit ears, which makes sense) is 1:1 with how we see him in RUIN, so it checks out

[@Flightless2.0]

Hopefully this gets boosted up, I didn’t notice that until rewatching the clip

[@shaggyzaza-o5v]

replying to B00ST

[@hencoop8023]

Boost this!!

[@gif303]

they done goofed

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

They are not 1:1, the mimic body, head, and general capabilities are completely different from what we see in game, heck even the area he's trapped in is different.

[@mrsurge4789]

The best (and most likely) explanation for Golden Freddy being in UCN despite not being possessed by Andrew is “UCNDuo”, which theorizes that both Andrew and Cassidy are torturing William until Cassidy decides to heed OMC advise and rest her soul. Another extension is “UCNDissent” where Cassidy is in UCN to try and stop Andrew from torturing William so he can rest

[@TheMagicDragon-mm5dr]

Theory idea: When Edwin was making the Mimic, was it difficult to put the pieces together?

[@jomereortega]

And what happened to his son? David? And why does he want icecream? David? Is that his name? And what happened to his ball?

[@atarusama101]

And what’s with the plushy ? Does he have a toy telephone in his room ? What’s with the ice cream ?

[@Thegoldenringsyt]

Most importantly, is his name *really* jackie? Is he ACTUALLY backie?

[@Under_Score]

Hey Tom, I think you guys made 1 Crucial Mistake in this Video! :] Those quotes you guys put up describing the Mimic from the "Epilogues" are ACTUALLY descriptions of THE BOBBIEDOTS Animatronics from a completely different story. No wonder the Mimic doesn't match The Bobbiedots, they just aren't the same Animatronics. Not sure how that happened lol. Otherwise Phenomenal Video!

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

Either way, it's description in tye books is still significantly different from what we see in the games, the issue is that in the books the mimic is able to shape-shift to a insane extent, so you could just say it changed form, but that personally seems like a stretch to me.

[@CArnxg0]

@@TiredMoonRabbit It reallly isn't though. The only difference is that the Mimic has rabbit ears in the epilogues which points towards it later becoming Burntrap. Also it shapeshifting is just it having limbs that are able to extend and contract. Everything else it almost 1:1

[@longfishy]

They've been making mistakes for a while, that's why I don't really expect much from their videos anymore tbh. Fuhnaff seems to be Game Theory in the new era to me.

[@traehignight]

@CArnxg0 You can't forget the Mimic temporarily becoming a 9 legged spider with an eye on it's knee in the books. The shapeshifting is actually very advanced. Regardless the Mimic as Burntrap looked basically identical to it's book depiction and it canonically changes it's parts to fix itself as well so that works regardless.

[@traehignight]

@longfishy I mean.... Fuhnaff was also a Talesgames denier and on top of that said the DCI didn't happen in his timeline, I'd say that despite having the best theorizing potential in FNAF history, currently the actual theorist channels have gone down hill for the most part.

[@Cindy-v9r]

So I read Lally's game while I was waiting.The real horror of that story, the fiance repeatedly getting his women killed by bringing Lally with him with almost no remorse.

[@RogerMollet]

The answer of the question posed in the first minute, is different in the different series. Silver Eyes is to tell us more about Springtrap’s backstory and what remnant is, Frights tells us how objects can be haunted after the spirits move on, and tales tells us what was going on in the PizzaPlex and more about what the mimic is.

[@tomkubus]

But the thing is we've always been told that silver eyes and the movie are a separate continuity from the games and therefore they shouldn't be used for lore, on the other hand when Scott announced frights and tales he said the opposite, saying they're directly connected and are required for us to be able to know the games story

[@RogerMollet]

@ Frights and Tales tell us about different mechanics of the games and lore, like confirmation that UCN takes place entirely inside of William’s mind, and that Edwin created the Mimic.

[@tomkubus]

@@RogerMollet frights and tales do that as they're canon and take place in the games continuity, unlike the silvery eyes trilogy and movie

[@Blazecap]

I guess but one issue I always had with stichgames was the sheer fact the timeline with the fnaf 6 location does NOT add up. We are told the police investigated the place and is explicitly described as "ancient history". With ZERO mention of a pizzaplex being build over it. This is an issue that if you assume talesgames is true and the stories like the The Storyteller are canon the pizza is at least up and running by the 2020s.

[@Joshchive]

​@Blazecap Simple. It happens before the Pizzaplex is built. Also Ancient History could easily be an exaggeration. The Pizzaplex wasn't built until after Help Wanted, Stitchline happens before Help Wanted.

[@techweasel]

As an indie dev this series has taught me to throw random stuff at the wall and let the fans piece it together before deciding myself

[@techweasel]

No fr I’m making a mascot horror game rn called NIGHT, and if it blows up I swear I’m totally not going to actually do this…

[@ItisJasmine27]

​@@techweaselgood luck! Hopefully it blows up!! ❤

[@Th1s_1S_C0rE_sPe4k1nG]

@@techweaselhey im kinda interested so if u get famous ill remember this comment

[@saltybagels4272]

grab ur og tickets here 🎟

[@krio1267]

​@@techweaselgood luck

[@YouTube]

2:29 GOOSEBUMPS 🫨

[@Casmico]

yt? :v (also do you follow fnaf lore/games?)

[@basheerabegum5439]

Yoo youtube?? also fr

[@PanLiryczny]

KZbin what are u doing here

[@CuteMurdar]

Hi KZbin..?

[@Jhonny.58]

I am here before this comments explodes 🔥

[@doctorpinecone9252]

ive always thought they were parallel stories - not quite the same story as the games, yet not entirely different.

[@Wyvernatus]

I hope and pray that this is the actual case. If super secret 6th MCI alligator mask man is canon, I’m going to do a quintuple backflip in an airplane

[@Blazecap]

@@Wyvernatus same I HATE andrew's existence from a narrative standpoint

[@traehignight]

That's the case with the original trilogy but it is not the case for the others. Tales from the Pizzaplex has far more connections to the games than listed in this video to show that they are 100% game continuity(and a prequel to Security Breach directly references stuff from the books). Frights was always known to consist half of stories that are game continuity and the other stories are just unrelated.

[@Joshchive]

Scott has never told us that parallels were meant to be used from Frights or Tales. That's a fanmade concept the community decided to use. Besides, something being narratively parallel to another does not automatically = another universe. That's not how fictional media works.

[@Wyvernatus]

@@Joshchive In all fairness, Scott hasn’t told us how to interpret most things in the lore. Hence why we have so many theories, and so many debates on simple things

[@HyperDroid]

You described it really well, it seems as though the Steel Wool story is basically the "Season 2" of FNAF, all the old characters have their stories FINISHED with UCN (and Frights if that's canon) and they're now GONE for good, leaving new characters to come into the story and take the spotlight! Basically: FNAF 1 -> UCN (+ Frights): Season 1 FNAF HW -> SOTM (+ Tales): Season 2 Also I understand the comparisons with the original Novel Trilogy, although like you mentioned the events between the novels and games make it clear that they're different timelines and are not meant to be 1:1 in any way (such as William getting out of Springtrap etc aswell as Scott actually telling us they're not canon), HOWEVER the Frights and Tales do NOT have anything similar to this where there's a giant red flag going "THIS from the games is CLEARLY entirely different to THIS from the books", they're quite similar now to the point that they're nearly identical stories being told and the two continue to get more intertwined with each new installment. GOOD VIDEO! :D

[@ender01o66]

@@HyperDroid I feel like FNaF 1 - 4 was "Season 1," while FNaF World - UCN was "Season 2." Then Help Wanted - Help Wanted 2 was "Season 3," and SoTM is the beginning of a new nightmare, a "Season 4."

[@Kevin2016-d3d]

hello there

[@Bitten83Official]

@ender01o66 just out of curiosity, not trying to poke holes in your theory, but where would you place the fazbear frights books? 1 or 2?

[@ender01o66]

@Bitten83Official The books seem to function as a transitional point between seasons. The Novel Trilogy in-between Season 1 and 2, Logbook + Frights in-between Season 2 and 3, and Tales + Interactive Novels in-between Season 3 and 4.

[@Mishtirious]

According to me, the theme is basically that "history repeats itself" so we need to look into old activities to predict what's going to happen in the fnaf future. Who knows, we might see another bite 😭

[@sutsyuoblob1890]

1:52 My Name Is David, I want some Ice Cream. Where Is my Ball?

[@sourappleplayz]

I See A Car AAAAAHHHH

[@polonyuino5016]

I'm the effing mimic oh yeah I'm the effing mimic oh yeah

[@foxygaming3232]

19:51 "did Andrew's parents not care enough to give him a gravestone" is relateable

[@semisemicoloncolon]

9:46 there are many things about this story I don’t get, but a big one is how in the world they got their hands on the mimic software. and if the books are canon and the mimic was indeed destroyed, how is it alive again in ruin? there’s just too many leaps of logic

[@artofcosplay]

Third team could have seen bodies of the second one so they understood that there is smth wierd. And they could do some trick to deactivate the mimic. We know that it can be tricked easily Tom siad in the video. Vanessa repaired it that's why mimic is active. Freddy cleared the path that was sealed in first epilogue so Vanny could repair mimic and give it Burntrap costume

[@semisemicoloncolon]

@ if you’ve read the books you know it’s not that easily tricked. it is clever enough to try to trick the kids in the epilogue story and recognize an ambush when there is one. also, this doesn’t explain how fazbear entertainment got the mimic software and why it was still in the pizzaplex after the storyteller tree was destroyed

[@fez9439]

@@semisemicoloncolon See, this is why it is insanely likely the books are canon, because the GAMES actually explain this For the first part, FE owns the Mimic, they retrieve it and then use it for a new line of Mimic animatronics which get scrapped. So, they'd have Mimic1. As for how Mimic stays in the Pizzaplex, as I said, that's explained in the games. In the therapy CDs, it's mentioned how there was a "glitch" in the Pizzaplex that the technicians tried to remove. That glitch was most likely tied to the Storyteller. Mimic1 stays in the Pizzaplex because Gregory shifts the source of the glitch, and turns it into an intentional feature in the Pizzaplex The books and games are working in tandem here, one gives you one side of the story, the other gives the other side

[@dougmcbride2531]

13:11 imagine the mimic just sitting on a laptop and making emails in his little room

[@item-001.the9children]

ARTESTS, TOOO YOUR TABLETS!!

[@Andrew_fzbrfrtz]

@@item-001.the9children ON IT!!

[@scarlett453]

Yess maybe in the post it note room?

[@INoahThingor2]

I feel like when Scott was talking about the canonicity of the books he wanted to just make books as a side thing that’s just in the FNaF universe

[@26th_Primarch]

Exactly.

[@mansam47]

only the first book existed when he said that

[@Flightless2.0]

@@mansam47 And now we have a game about it

[@mansam47]

@@Flightless2.0 i’m talking about the FIRST book The Silver Eyes not Into The Pit The Silver Eyes released in 2016 this post is also from 2016 before the books release Fazbear Frights Into The Pit released in 2019 the only thing scott has said about the canonicity of the Frights books is that some are directly connected to the games and scott hasn’t said a single word about the Tales From The Pizzaplex series

[@solarsunne4950]

@INoahThingor2 he literally just made a books character the main villain you’re deluded

[@Rayne-Storm]

Idk if anyone as said this yet, but the guy's name is Mr. Burrows, burrows are where rabbits live, so most likely Mr. Burrows is a home for a rabbit, also known as the glitchtrap virus

[@KurtBoquet]

We think that you should do an updated version of that. 12:19

[@SuperSocksFN]

Yes

[@harrypotterkid1175]

Absolutely

[@abb.1987]

Was it even a question

[@FelineDeskFan13]

Y E S More timelines >:3

[@AstroAnimatz]

ABSOLUTELY

[@SneakyFoot]

Ive always thought of the books as secondary canon, meaning that there canon unless it goes against the games wich are primary canon.

[@Joshchive]

Well that's not how Scott has seen it, at least not since the Fazbear Frights began, he said some of those books stories would be directly connected to the games.

[@leomcshizzlevaldez7224]

@@Joshchive Pretty sure that's what they meant, some books are canon as long as they don't go against the canon of the games, as it basically has priority over the books, so the books that are canon are directly connected to the games

[@WitchHunterSiegfried88]

Touhou PC-98 moment.

[@Wyvernatus]

@@JoshchiveThe real question is what “directly connected” means in that context. I find it weird that Scott hasn’t confirmed anything since WillTrap, but I don’t think his statement regarding FF was confirming StitchLine

[@SneakyFoot]

@@WitchHunterSiegfried88 what does that even mean?

[@pumpkinpie76]

I like to think the books are for introducing characters and concepts and otherwise "light cannon", cannon until main cannon says otherwise.

[@scottcockton]

Exactly to me the books are a way of bringing in ideas to the lore and the important stuff get adapted pretty similarly but tweaked abit and the rest is thrown away

[@Random_McRandomface]

Cawthon is probably just throwing these confusing books and plot holes at all the fans, and he himself doesn't know the lore.

[@Cosmic_GhostRider]

Fr

[@hencoop8023]

The books have always been intended to be canon mark my words

[@Cosmic_GhostRider]

@@hencoop8023 Alright, I’ll mark your “worss”

[@hencoop8023]

@@Cosmic_GhostRider typo

[@Cosmic_GhostRider]

@@hencoop8023 I was just jking. Your good :)

[@THE_GAY_GEEK]

At this point they should make a book theory channel

[@Hispanicburrito]

They should've done that instead of style theory, what a waste.

[@dayminder7414]

Truth, it should honestly just be Game Theory, Film Theory, Book Theory, and Gtlive

[@Rocketyy]

Honestly what I thought the 4th channel would be, food and style theory should be combined into one

[@alexandrebertone4351]

Book theory has been a meme since film theory came out

[@redwiltshire1816]

Love how this community has collectively had enough of the lack of clarity.

[@demonfromunderyourbed4580]

yup.. at first it was a fun mystery but now it's just one big plothole

[@redwiltshire1816]

@ yep pretty much it’s less “how do I solve this” and more “what is even real anymore”

[@odd-dev]

​@@redwiltshire1816 and what drugs do I need to not lose my sanity trying to find the lore.

[@higueraft571]

​@@redwiltshire1816Yeah

[@zlincorporated]

I would really like to see your updated full timeline. I remember when the original came out. And I think it would be great to have one that’s not outdated. But probably after secret of the mimic comes out. So it’s not immediately outdated.

[@darkillusionists2595]

8:36 "My name is David!" 🗣🗣🗣🗣

[@Mr_tophat65]

Bro I love the minic song

[@wiedzmiarz]

Dad, I want some ice cream! David!

[@Lazy_wombat]

David, that is my name

[@3spoons366]

DAVID, I WANT ANOTHER

[@puahplays246]

Hi Dave

[@darthvigilante]

Funny enough, when I first watched playthroughs of the Secret Of The Mimic Update for Help Wanted 2, I came to the conclusion that we don't play as Cassie's father, but instead Edwin Murray through observation of the update's events, and specific dialogue in the base game.

[@Sickbeatswithasg1]

13:51 are we forgetting the blob that took burntrap with the tentacles this excerpt describes tentacles

[@thewycypress810]

I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO TYPE THAT ONCE I GOT TO THIS TIMEFRAME!! 😂 the blob is canon I believe so this point in the video should be that! Even in the first part of the pizzaplex we did see the blob!

[@CArnxg0]

That description is actually of the Gen1 Bobbiedots and not the Mimic

[@GospodinWolf]

About Andrew's involvement as the 6th kid: in the new interactive novella "Return to the Pit", Andrew is no longer a 6th victim of the MCI, making the number of kids the good old (gold) 5. I don't think it's a retcon (even though it certainly feels like it), but i think it's changed for a reason, and i guess that reason being Andrew being a stand in for Garret from the FNaF movie (funny enough, there is Garret's plane in the Into the Pit game as an easter egg). The only thing that changes is his placement and involvement in the MCI: he wasn't the MCI victim, he was killed before it even happened.

[@Blazecap]

This is the way to integrate andrew but I just hope his story is actually good

[@jamesclarke5646]

A full lore video would be great but it would be better AFTER the books are confirmed to be lore or not

[@britanimations2002]

Never has a video title both relieved me and set the fear of god in me

[@jayemar527]

At this point, FNaF Book Theory will need an entire fifth theory channel for itself

[@Real_Potato_Man]

Where is it even supposed to be at tho? The background getting lit up? What would be the color?

[@idamcclendon930]

You are correct they exist in the same universe, but they are separate timelines, which is what Scott has said years ago. The books are there on timeline. They are not part of the game lore GAME LORE AND BOOK LORE ARE DIFFERENT TIMELINES BUT BOTH ARE INDEED CANON! Said by Scott himself years ago

[@docrilas]

That was about the Silver eyes timeline not Fazbear Frights

[@WILDFIRE1441]

I've always liked there being parallels between the books and games, instead of being directly cannon to each other, that way, yes, you can use stuff from the books to figure out the game lore, but also have the stories go somewhere else or off the chart insane (or fazgoo) and not have that directly affect the story kinda like branching paths, there's a main line, but there are branches that go along with it, kinda like one of those choose your own adventure stories, in a way

[@YoBoyNeptune]

I don't understand why characters from the tales books appearing in the games makes the tales books canon to the games but Afton and Henry (silver eyes trilogy characters) appearing in the games didn't make the silver eyes books canon (I wrote this comment before I saw 21:00)

[@clowntown3]

23:31 that comic is diabolical I love it

[@Anon_Octo]

Oh god, British man is getting the horde.

[@KevinArellano69]

"There is a caaaaar" Anyways, if you do a timeline, you should 100% wait for SOTM because this game seems to be big for lore.

[@spikey6694]

We ready for Tom to tear his hair out at his plan of doing a new timeline video?

[@TheBlob108]

Glad you did this theory, I've always wondered how important the books are to the timeline considering how big a deal most make of the canonical placement of them since I'm still reading through them

[@WhatANiceTreeeeeeeee.h]

For a second I thought the video thumbnail said “Canyon” while pointing at the little cat guy. I immediately thought of Dave Miller being inside of Glamrock Freddy and throwing that thing into the Grand Canyon. God I love day shift at Freddy’s

[@okquren]

2:22 ppl keep calling this a mansion or toy store but like.... thats a church no? The car with it is literally a hearse. Its a hearse and a church = a funeral for Edwins dead kid. Is this not obvious to others? What am i missing cause thats a church with some silly signs on top doesnt look like a factory at all?

[@FabledFeral]

I agree that it doesn't look like a factory. I hadn't thought of it as a church before though, good eyes! I always saw it as some sort of gift shop for the circus myself, and that's why it's advertising masks?

[@Cxsonn]

I will say Scott actually did debunk that the old games aren't reliable. He said that was an excuse for why the non-canon characters were in a canon game

[@_snail9234]

I can't enjoy the new games if all I can think about is "my name is Edwin. I made the mimic. It was difficult, to put, the pieces, together."

[@EthanEiholzer]

I do appreciate how newbie friendly this channel is, it's very easy for someone like me who has attempted(unsuccessfully) to forget about the horrors of modern FNAF lore, and these videos are very easy to approach and absorb.

[@justinpritt7897]

My theory is that this is another silver eyes connection; I saw a video by ID's Fantasy saying tiger rock in the games isn't a actual animatronic but a suit but they didn't mean that it made merch from "tiger rock". Plus, having edwin in the games really cleans up on who created trash and the gang. At least mr hugs' vacuum cleaner part. While also having ties with henry. Like who knows; maybe he was the one that help created the circus fnaf suits for henry and william and the person that gave henry his "wound" that william killed was edwin's son. If he was henry's old partners/friend that worked along side with the two.

[@roobie_not_ruby]

Personally I think the books aren’t 1:1 with game lore, but most stories can be a parallel to in game stories. Seeing as Fazgoo and The Shark Story that I forgot the name of have zero presence within the games, I doubt all stories have a reason to be cannon. Things like tiger rock now being present in the games now I think isn’t trying to say the books are fully cannon, but that they provide answers and should be used as a key to solve some unsolvable puzzles in the games.

[@GLM_Spring]

19:42 RTTP describes Cassidy has the girl with curly hair, in TFC Cassidy had black hair, that explains TNK

[@William_afton77]

But, that inverted picture thing shows that Cassidy doesn’t look like any of those descriptions you said.

[@GLM_Spring]

@William_afton77 yeah maybe cuz that kid face isn't Cassidy, ITS ANDREW, and even if it doesn't look like Andrew is him, Scott doesn't look like Steve and even with that he uses his face for the character

[@William_afton77]

@@GLM_Spring so…why does Cassidy appear like ‘the main lore’ character or something? If it’s Andrew then, who is the second soul in golden Freddy?

[@GLM_Spring]

@William_afton77 litarally no idea, maybe It was a teaser for Cassidy's importance In the newest games, TWB tells CC has the second Golden Freddy soul

[@laughlinmcindoe9734]

Honestly I would find it hilarious if it turns out that it’s just Henry since technically we don’t know his last name in the games we just assume that it’s Emily because of the books

[@FabledFeral]

Honestly, I am _praying_ that this turns out to be the case. If Edwin made the animatronics then what has been Henry doing? If Edwin turns out to be a separate character who just happens to be _just like Henry_ that seems a bit repetitive. Edit: Edwin didn't make the animatronics. He did still play a pretty crucial role in building them and it's still weird we've barely heard of him by now in the games even if his involvement was covered up. He and his kid are also still repetitive characters though.

[@sergiorubens8475]

​@@FabledFeralat no point is it ever implied edwin created the animatronics. He merely makes copies of them for other fazbear locations

[@Khloe.6102]

@@sergiorubens8475i hope you’re right 😭🙏🏻

[@artofcosplay]

​​@@FabledFeral rewatch video again. Even if Edwin isn't in game continuity Henry still exists in Tales universe. Fire and fnaf 6 still happened. It's not the Talesgames problem And why wouldn't Edwin just make animatronics by bluprints that was given to him by Henry? Emily still envented classics by making these blueprints and perhaps coding but Edwin brought them to life or maybe copied them to other pizzerias that we've seen in Frights

[@FabledFeral]

@@artofcosplay That's fair, I still think that Edwin and Henry being so similar is a bit repetitive narratively, but that is just an opinion. I also feel that the Mimic and by exception Jackie have a lot of interesting parallels as well that become more interesting if Henry is Edwin. Also also I think it's just weird we haven't learned about Edwin until now with how early in the timeline he appears, even if his involvement was covered up he was really important. The clarity the books provide is really nice, don't get me wrong. I just have a lot of feelings about it. If the books are canon then you can't get away with not reading them anymore which means homework and less accessibility for those who can't buy the books. Getting this many straight answers about the lore feels weird too, as frustrating as it is, would we all be here if the lore wasn't super confusing? Ultimately I think any narrative would be unsatisfying at this point because we've come up with so many possibilities that suit each individual's preference of stories.

[@MSPaintOfficial]

it's our once in a while dose of Game Theory cracking down on some FNAF lore

[@xbloxlive5454]

Yeah, but I miss Matpat.😢❤

[@johnnybravox909]

@@xbloxlive5454agreed! Its just never going to be the same

[@HasibHasan-q8y]

​@@xbloxlive5454 On the bright side, he doesn't have to beat his head on his desk trying to solve the looore. He can now rest, knowing that he's not the one dealing with this anymore.

[@123krolcia]

23:22 Nice, i might get a fnaf game for my birthday

[@Sophiestandard]

Before i start the video id like to say i saw the notification and screenshotted it and sent it to my friend and we both immediately started trying to save toms sanity

[@RiverPrather]

0:30 HELLO HELLO HELLO

[@moonlight09m25]

You heard him. Welp i don't blame him like im getting confused at Fnaf lore more and more 😞

[@puahplays246]

Lol

[@puahplays246]

lol

[@Caramel6027]

Heres my opinion: I think it’s both! I think some parts of the books are canon, and some are not. And honestly, would I be surprised if this was the answer? Absolutely not, this is a scott thing to do. 1:19 Imagine if Henry ends up being Henry Murray, not Henry Emily. The FNAF community would go insane! 2:47 Yup… 2:54 Okay, am I the only one who thinks that plush is just absolutely adorable? 3:33 This theory must have been an…interesting theory to write the script for 😅. 4:30 The names! The named Scott comes up with! 😂 4:48 Not those things! 4:56 Yup… definitely favorite..I totally love those things.. (Spoiler alert: I think everyone hates them) 6:03 *sighs* What is FNAF at this point? 7:07 This game… 😅 8:23 Oh god… 12:07 How can we say this so casually 😂 12:24 YES! YES I WOULD! 21:43 God, I hope that’s it. I don’t know about everyone else, but I *really* rather this be it. 22:12 Hey! John Fuhnaff could have been right. Base on the books, but not fully! 23:09 Felix the Shark was a Tales Book right? Oh I wonder if he’d exist.

[@pizzacat_guitar]

There’s honestly no way Scott has any idea anything about the lore after like FNaF 3

[@TommyWebb0934]

It's a good day when there's a new fnaf theory

[@theadventuresofjokerandfri3162]

Im sorry, I cant take Edwin and david seriously anymore after listening to that FNAF “Jackie’s box” video 😭

[@jomereortega]

BRO I LITERALLY STARTED DYIIINNNNGGGG

[@theadventuresofjokerandfri3162]

@ SAME ESPECIALLY ON THE DAVID PART

[@solarsunne4950]

Edwin now objectively made The Mimic

[@bowserplushie]

it was difficult. to put. the pieces. together

[@Joshchive]

But unfortunately, something went so wrong

[@ggggiuuuuuuu]

please put me out of my misery

[@WhatwasigonnaSayagain]

Y’all at this point Matt was like we can’t do book theory will take too long to read all the books you’ve read 17 Truckin books for one freaking theory y’all

[@ephraimboateng5239]

I've been assuming pretty much since GGY that the books and games are in the same cannon. Makes things simpler

[@alexnguyen3989]

MatPat: Retired New Host: Funny British Man

[@johnnybravox909]

I wish they let Austin take over the Game Theory channel.

[@SeraphEChasted_3]

Bro literally opened his video with a "What if" like this wasn't recorded when Marvel's What if season 3 was coming out he knew what he was doing

[@elauktan816]

I’d like to think that only the short stories are canon, and not The Silver Eyes trilogy. Rather, those 3 books are just there to give us extra information about parts of the lore, like the sound illusion discs.

[@gamingwithsonic7344]

Finally. The theories can be bigger

[@notdaniel2005]

1:26 So his name is Edwin, he made the Mimic. I wonder if it was difficult to put the pieces together

[@demonfromunderyourbed4580]

Do you think his son David's name was David? Do you reckon he wanted ice cream? Another David perhaps?

[@nationalnate2385]

Tom can you do a video on”could the robot /humans in Warframe be the way humanity prevents a robot apocalypse in real life”

[@josy230409]

if by any chance u see this and can somehow get this information to scott: the first few fnaf games [those under scott and not published by steelwool] are all blocked in germany since november last year bc they dont have an age rating on steam, which is now required. scott needs only fill out a form and it will be available again [from what i can gather, im not a game dev so i cant test it out or anything] but basically the ppl who dont own the fnaf games already are not able to buy the games via steam anymore and frankly it sucks; i hadnt been able to get the games before bc i was not in a good financial situation but things are finally looking up and i wanted to treat myself to one or two of the games this year bc ive always loved them and now theyre no longer available and im honestly just so lost on how to get this information to scott bc all the fan emails seem outdated, so if there is any way u can ask scott to look into getting the fnaf games unblocked in germany i would forever be grateful! [also im sorry this comment is not related to the video other than being about fnaf but im honestly getting desperate bc i just have no idea what to do about the blocking of the games.. have a lovely day regardless and keep up the good work! (: ]

[@NotEmmanuel42]

4:16 TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!!!

[@Nobody-rz2rt]

18:36 Aww, what a cute lil wengeful spirit

[@hada__02]

1:32 I wonder if he found it difficult to put the pieces together??

[@jaydenpollard9955]

Am I the only one who sees the among us visor at 20:14?

[@solartree4189]

Yes

[@A.N.N.A.]

I had an add for something called giggleland before this… looks like something for game theory

[@TDANCEA]

Omfg please make an updated timeline series PLEASE YES

[@WaterRam]

my name is edwin. i made the mimic. it was very difficult. to put the piece together.

[@Wyachu25]

Map pat watching all of his theories being destroyed:

[@GrianFan17]

21:22 “Henry unalives himself”????? Are you being for real right now????????????

[@Teoriak]

4:34 he created the first 3 and unfinished the 4th one based on events from real fnaf

[@xoxokaleigh]

Definitely wait to do another full timeline until we understand/get more confirmations from SotM and possibly the racing game, no point in making another one with all the gaps we have now, but maybe in anothe 6-8 months another full timeline would be cool

[@marihelena6879]

i love how much everyone is still obsessed with fnaf

[@herretik2287]

8:52 THERE IS A CAAAR??? 🗣️🔥

[@karimliensperdomo3291]

I'd genuinely be as happy as I'll ever be if he you guys do an updated version of the FNAF timeline, just like you mentioned in the video. Love the channel, hope to see that soon.

[@Celtic1020]

The biggest problem with the books being in continuity for me is that the Frights/Tales MCI is different. The children were never missing, and six kids die on the same day. Which doesn't match anything of the MCI we had learned about prior to this.

[@0ndem]

The MCI makes sense to be done in one night. Like if a kid goes missing from an arcade it probably is closed for a few days

[@Blazecap]

Also the only tie to The new Pizza Plex books vs the OG fazbear fright stories is one story about the necklace. That only is in the first volume where maybe it was intended to connect but as the mimic lore was fleshed out that changed. Also in the books/stitchwraith the FNAF pizza sim location is still a burned ruin. When Curse of dread and even the pizza plex books imply that construction started for the pizza plex right after the fire. Pretty more glaring than Andrew's existence

[@Joshchive]

It was an altered memory, in Into the Pit The Yellow Rabbit is said that he specifically wanted Oswald to see what he had done, which was why the bodies were out in the open.

[@hencoop8023]

Only five kids are reported. The six victim (Andrew) was likely never reported thus never known as a victim

[@Blazecap]

@@Joshchive That is a bad point. Because that becomes a slippery slope to dismiss ANYTHING in the game to fit whatever theory you or I could make.

[@shojoe2517]

From my perspective, as someone that stopped keeping up with the books once the pizzaplex books came out- I don't think Scott doesn't know his franchise's own lore. Sure he was cryptic even with Steel wool when they were making Security Breach. But I think an issue is him trying to keep enough of the games "confusing" and "impossible to solve", so that the Internet/KZbin theorist can drive that intrigue to FNAF. But I think at this point Steel Wool & him have written themselves into corners with the extended lore that I think they're required every so often to "spoil" / course correct for the community. Least that's how I see things.

[@Ramxenoc]

I lowkey hate all these potential retcons because the story is so long and vast now that once I finally feel like I'm understanding it the books come along and make it worse or rewrite things. The books giving clarity is perfectly fine, but retcons start throwing things everywhere

[@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185]

Casual reminder that FNAF 6 brought in Henry and Charlie Emily (retconning SAVE HIM in the process) from the books,changed Elizabeth's whole characterisation to better match the books, brought in remnant from the books,if MoltenMCI is true then it also brought in the idea of the of 4 animatronics being melted together into one and the MCI possessing the Funtimes from the books,technically it confirmed William as Afton's first name as SL only confirmed the name Afton and arguably even altered Afton's characterisation slightly so that he better matches the books (with him seeming to take pride in being Sprinhlocked,rather than it being the torturous punishment it was in fnaf 3). Despite this (and SL also bringing in elements from the books),those books still aren't canon. This proves that a game bringing in quite a few elements from the books or even retconning the story to better match the books STILL doesn't mean they're canon. Tales being game canon would literally require a miracle to be undeniably true. Especially considering that the mimic in Tales is in a completely different spot than where it starts out in Ruin. Also,if the books are canon,it's even less likely Glitchtrap is Mimic1 because that'd be bad storytelling. Why have two of the same program with the same motivation enter the same place from 2 completely different origins? It's just redundant.

[@leomcshizzlevaldez7224]

From what I understand, Glitchtrap is a branch of the Mimic1 program that imitated Afton, and with HW2 it disappeared completely, so that now only the branch of the Mimic remains, which is imitating Edwin's behavior against it. at least that's what I got from both this and some other theories in yt