Ganondorf isn't Misunderstood

#tearsofthekingdom #thelegendofzelda #breathofthewild
is ganondorf tragic or misunderstood? i answer these questions and more on todays honored madman
a video that has been long in development, well not really, but its been an idea in my head for awhile

[@XSilver_WaterX]

Ganondorf: POWER IS. Ganon: POWER AS. Demise: POWER NOT. Power doesn't stagnate, as that would ultimately lead to its own death. It evolves and cites change for both good and evil, blue and orange morality. Power is always at the control of BOTH the wielders and the will. The 3 Goddesses are frustratingly stupid to the point they are not actually proper gods and more of trainees to build their own universe and Hyrule is just a testing ground for them. Hylia has more compassion and ethic-evolution of staged-situations when enemies like the Blood Moon in BoTW happens. Demise is a jerk 100%, but he has a point that what good is good can NEVER understand what make power to evil happen.

[@thegridlessheathen4627]

What do you mean they aren't real goddesses? Have you ever studied world mythology?

[@XSilver_WaterX]

@@thegridlessheathen4627 Yeah, I did. And the 3 Goddesses are more akin to Japanese Kami and Vietnamese toneh'o or house souls. Not Greek or Normandia creator gods like Cha'os or Illlu'istulli'v. Far Eastern mythology is facinating but butchers its own glamor for social control of humans.

[@FirenightMoon]

@@thegridlessheathen4627is better if you study hyrule history and zelda encyclopedia 😂

[@alfalldoot6715]

You said a lot of words that I frankly have a hard time understanding

[@_Sinduss]

​@@XSilver_WaterX confused as to how "force of nature" deities lead to more social control than omnipotent moral arbiters? The Zelda creation gods are completely amoral to the point where they do not even have a concept of ethics. Gannondorf gets the triforce of power for he is the most powerful there is nothing more. The triforce will grant any wish no matter how depraved because they have no stake in good and evil. Hyllia is the representation of good which is why she has concept and concern for ethics. Demise is the representation of evil and is a reflection of hyllia. Ironically they each need the other to exist as you can have no good without evil.

[@GorbWasHere]

People who say Ganon is misunderstood and all that are exactly the kind of people Ganon would have zero hesitation manipulating and using for his own gain.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

I couldn't agree more

[@dice5709]

Griffith did nothing wrong cucks

[@modcon-based113]

More on the extreme side but it’s like saying the funny moustache man did nothing wrong “he wanted to help his country which was torn apart by the allies” “he cared about his girlfriend and family very much he’s misunderstood!” basically saying ganondorf is innocent in Hyrule would be equivalent to saying that in our world

[@israelwilson4022]

Absolutely true

[@thewicked1862]

@@modcon-based113 did you just compare a Zelda villain to hitler now that’s a little extreme

[@superbigtime]

fans: Ganondorf is just misunderstood! TotK Ganondorf: _SMILING MANIACALLY AFTER MURDERING A WOMAN WITH HIS BARE HANDS_

[@wyattwebb6963]

And ripping and tearing his way through his own supporters before A Link to the Past, trying to starve a race, kill off two beings sacred to two other races and plenty more in Ocarina of Time, the guy is definately a "ends justifies the means" kind of person.

[@Eli-sg5to]

Not even just murdered her; he literally stabbed her in the back then laughed about it like a weirdo

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

Joker: first time?

[@thegreatgoobert5847]

I fucking love that image of him smiling.

[@qwmx]

​@@Eli-sg5toDid you watch the scene? He didn't have a knife on him? The knife was from his puppet. He punched her back.

[@QuasarEE]

A line from the "A Link to the Past" instruction manual has always stuck with me as ultimately defining the character of Ganondorf: " In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves fought his way past his followers in lust for the Golden Power. After vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce and grasped it with his blood-stained hands."

[@connormclernon26]

In short, every justification he gives is ultimately at best forgotten in the name of power or at worst just empty platitudes to get people to follow him

[@RTU130]

True

[@AlexG32777]

Spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom In one of the memories the zora sage says something along the lines of "our Intel confirms that another free gerudo village has fallen" to which the gerudo sage reacts to with disgust. This implies that not all gerudo followed Gannondorf, but the ones that didn't were destroyed by him.

[@owlmage]

So that's a real thing, I had that game but I didn't own the manual. I like the idea of Gannon being more than a villain but this video and lines like that make me think he just won't be used that way. I am not going to own Nintendo to get what I want, so the idea of the heroes of the Triforce game one of whom would be the hero of power is just not going to happen while these ideas are as dominant as they are, to a small amount of my annoyance. Guess some random woman getting the Triforce of power in Hyrule warriors is as close as I get.

[@lwine397]

@QuasarEE I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but that sounds like the Triforce drove everyone who saw it to insanity and caused even allies to try to kill each other in a blood-lust frenzy. "Long-running battle" makes me think that Ganondorf wasn't the only one suddenly attacking his allies but that his followers upon seeing the Triforce also suddenly turned on him. In A Link Between Worlds the Triforce in Lowrule was destroyed because it started a war the moment it showed up since everyone started killing each other to try to claim its power for themselves.

[@blackbloom8552]

I think a lot of what windwaker ganondorf say about his pasts are things hes only realised after the facts. He was probably always a selfish ruler, obsessed with gaining power, but for much of his time as the king of evil, he never considered why. He simply allowed his ambitions to control him and only when he was sealed for centuries did he realise what had brought him to be so obsessed with taking over hyrule in the first place. Ganondorf in windwaker is still a very evil man, but he has lost much of the anger and pride , not even caring to kill the hero when he has the chance. Its easy to empathise with him, because at this point ,he is a rather pitiful. Just a jaded old man, desperately trying to conquer an empty kingdom because thats all he`s ever known and he refuses to move on.

[@MagnificantSasquatch]

There's no "probably" about it. It's the same Ganondorf who took over in Ocarina of Time. "Oh, he just wanted a better life for his people", tell me, where were the Gerudo? Ah, left in the monster-infested wastelands, suffering at the hands of Koume and Kotake, who participated in fun little experiments like brainwashing them and *_ritualistically sacrificing_* them. Hyrule itself? A hellscape crawling with undead monsters. No hope for survival. Nothing constructive. Ganondorf obtained the world _solely_ to _ram it right into the ground._ That's what Ganondorf does and did when he got what he wanted. He wasn't remorseful or apologetic in Wind Waker, he was just _depressed that he lost what he wanted._

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

THIS. He's wistful and sentimental, but at his core, he's clearly just rationalizing. He's nearly gone insane, alone and hopeless for so many years, and at the end of it all, as he's about to achieve his ultimate goal, he feels the need to explain it, to the kids who would be the future of his kingdom and to himself. "I coveted those winds, I suppose," the truth is he never knew WHY he did it, he just did it

[@FirenightMoon]

@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 but we know why, skyward sword explained it to us, this is the fate chosen by the goddesses, a continuous war, no peace for any of the three protagonists, Ganondorf is not misunderstood but not totally evil either, because his behavior is very similar to Demise and we know that Demise chose him as a container of reincarnation, whether Ganondorf wants it or not, in the Zelda encyclopedia they explain that as a young boy he was ambitious and thought of his people, but in adulthood the Demise power awakened and he changed like day and night, the true Ganondorf is death as soon as the power has awakened

[@blackbloom8552]

@@FirenightMoon You should look into the Japanese version of demise speech. His curse is not litteral, he is warning the hero that evil is eternal. As long as hatred exist, someone like him will rise to lead the demons against the forces of good. Honestly the whole demise reincarnation theory is kind of troublesome as it removes ganondorf agency from his own actions.

[@FirenightMoon]

@@blackbloom8552 i have the game in Italian and it have the same dialogue of japanese, i know this, but he confirm that he’s the cause, because he “play” the fact a male gerudo hate Hyrule because they don’t let them to live well (ocarina of time) Ganondorf without demise is aggressive, territorial and racist, I see nothing wrong with that 🗿🍷

[@jacopoarmini7889]

Ganondorf is the self-appointed king of evil, he might have had semi-good intentions at the beginning, but there's a reason why the Gerudos don't serve him any longer. The only ones he surrounds himself with are mindless monsters and yes-men, pawns he can control. Ganondorf is just a self-serving vainglorious dictator whose power isn't even his own.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

This is the correct assessment

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yeah his whole plot is basically steal power and do bad

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

However, he wields it like he deserves it and that is in itself commendable. The strong take, fact of life.

[@jacopoarmini7889]

@@ComradeOgilvy369 it is not the strongest that prevails, but the most adaptable. The logic of the supremacy of the strong is flawed, since strength is not all it takes to thrive.

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

​@@jacopoarmini7889 you're interpreting "strength" a bit too literally. Strength of body, strength of mind, and strength of spirit are all valid. He plays his assigned role to a t

[@Michael-ib6ky]

I do actually love how unapologetically evil Ganondorf always is in the games. The fanbase can write as many kind, pretty, and misunderstood AU versions of him as they want, and they're fun to think about. but Canon Ganon? the guy is the literal incarnation of malice. the only thing motivating him in reincarnation is a long forgotten revenge and desire for power, and he doesn't shy away from any awful act to make it happen. big guy wakes up and chooses violence every day

[@lordhellstrande2763]

Which is why I love Ganon as a villain. He's evil for the power he gains and, on many ways, just for the sake of it and he doesn't care even in Windwaker where he reflects on the why

[@SporadicV2]

Canondorf knows two things: get as much power as possible no matter what, and despise Link and Zelda for trifling with his business

[@no1important777]

Canon ganon. Ganon Cannon!

[@Lalairu]

"Big guy wakes up and chooses violence every day". I loved this line 😂😂😂

[@aa-tx7th]

yup hes just a force of nature. he has never shown any redeeming qualities ever. hes just the concept of evil, power, and tyranny.

[@penpenpencil860]

"Time traveling war orphan who grew up in a forest and was raised by a tree" is not a sentence id ever though id hear but it is SO accurate.

[@CrimsonMoonM]

I enjoy Wind Waker's Ganondorf because you get this wistful middle-aged man who has gained enough perspective and introspection to realize how he lost sight of himself in his bid for power, yet still can't bring himself to stop yearning for the past. Supplementary material even states that he were the last Ganon of his timeline because he recognized who he used to be in his dying moments and died without anger in his heart, thus freeing himself from Demise's curse. That said, I also really enjoy Tears' Ganondorf for being an unapologetic bastard and madman who uses his appearance as a mindless warlord to make his foes underestimate his cunning nature so he can stab them in the back while they're gloating about how predictable he seemingly is. There is room for both Ganon the monster and Ganondorf the man. He can serve both roles depending on the story's needs, and contrasting his most recent portrayal with his WW self really emphasizes that.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

Wow I actually really liked your interpretation of Ganon making himself seem foolish intentionally. Probably jsnt the reality the devs intended but most things in totk aren't so lol, but is very very cool and I believe it

[@StonedHunter]

I definitely agree that Ganondorf holds both sides to him. I love TotK's take because we get to see both of those sides and how he so easily slides from the man into the monster (Doesn't hurt that Mathew Mercer is a very skilled voice actor whom I think captured that transition really well as it never felt like Ganondorf 'snaps' at any point, it's a continuous, smooth line from man to beast and letting us see the in between). I always feel like the 'curse' of Demise is as you said a promise like in the original Japanese, but also slightly an actual curse. Like, Ganondorf was always going to be who he is, but Demise's curse simply brings about situations that he is able to fully take advantage of.

[@carljohansson3512]

He still had anger in his heart but he was also very tired and knew that this was his last attempt to conquer. He was exhausted when he turned to stone but he regretted nothing and felt no remorse for anything and he was still eternally attached to Saṃsāra though this time his body just like his mind is stuck and sealed in a forgotten past. If he was able to return he would definitely seek revenge and try to again revive the past world even if it's futile. From what I remember in the Japanese versions of the books they never say anything about him being free from the self-inflicted curse.

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

Back when that "tragic tale of ganondorf dragmire" video got popular again, I left a comment with a similar vibe to this video. He's trapped in his own fate, yes, but his actions are his own. He's not being mind controlled, he's not a victim of destiny (except being raised by Twinrova, that couldn't have been good for his mental state). He's just a terrible man. Demise's curse in all its mistranslated glory isn't really a curse in the traditional sense. It's a promise, almost a foresight. Demise swore that someday, someone would hate all of creation the way he did. Ganondorf's villainous actions are not tragic or pre-determined, simply predicted. He chooses to do these things because he's a maniacal conqueror. Even by Wind Waker, he's not a sad old man. He's an old man who spent his life destroying and killing, who went insane being alone for centuries after destroying the world, and in his moment before glory he needed to justify his actions to the kids who were the future, and to himself.

[@jamesmichael9110]

Honestly this is the best interpretation of Demise’s curse I’ve seen, I feel like it’s never really been squared away cause everyone argues whether Ganondorf is always reincarnated the same as Link or not. But this kind of removes Ganondorf from the curse entirely, which is kinda cool

[@jacobj3933]

​​@@jamesmichael9110 Here's the thing, Ganondorf isn't part of the curse, he *is* the curse. He's Demise reincarnated. While he doesn't have the memories of his previous life, Ganon still kept his nature, what and who he was/is was never going to change no matter what new body he came back with.

[@silverprimus321boi9]

It would be neat to see a Zelda game where Zelda accidently does something and the triforces just swap, making the next incarnation of Ganondorf the embodiment of courage and link of power. You can still have both retain their basic traits, but it would be neat to see how the triforce swap changes them.

[@DaNintendude]

The thing about "Demise's Curse" is that it's actually the curse of the Demon Tribe. The hatred of the Demon Tribe will live on forever, and leaders will rise up out of that. Ganondorf is just a common idea that the hatred reincarnates as. Ganondorf is his own person, but he's basically run by hatred. Any humanity that is within him will always be overwhelmed by that hatred and lust for power. The true tragedy of Wind Waker Ganondorf is not that he has regret. It's not that he wants to break free from the curse. It's that he will never stop lusting for power. If Ganondorf had any humanity in him, the ending of Wind Waker must've given that humanity immense, overwhelming relief. Ganondorf's entire purpose was shattered in that moment. Without a Hyrule, without a Triforce, he has no purpose. The Hatred of the Demon Tribe failed to take over Hyrule. So closes the story of Ganondorf.

[@inbetween1-042]

My take on TotK Ganondorf is pure psychopathy. From his dialogues, all I get is his need for endless battle and bloodshed. He also doesn't like being a vassal, his pride demanded that he become a ruler that rule over all others. He called those who chased peace as weak and cowards. He see Rauru as smug and arrogant, not realising that he was projecting who he is on Rauru should he ever be in that man's place. Basically Ganondorf cannot and will not thrive in a world of peace. He's that guy that just want to watch the world burn so he could defend his position as the strongest. And because the world naturally rejected his ideal, he sought to destroy the world.

[@BaronessAishi055]

So he's basically the Ugandan Shao Khan *"I don't want peace, I WANT PROBLEMS ALWAYS!"*

[@mondenkindqueen]

If he isn’t first, he’s last.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

You could argue that as an incarnation of Demise, he is basically instinctively drawn towards primordial chaos. Even his Lorulian counterpart, Yuga, wanted to fuse with Ganon instead of Ganondorf, calling Ganon "the most beautiful thing ever". This also would put another kind of trinity between him, Link and Zelda. Ganon is the primordial, chaotic past. Zelda is the future, almost all her acts ensure that Link can fight another day. And Link is the present, he shows up, solves the problem and then leaves, ever living in the moment.

[@amiiredhead2676]

This teminds me of Jasper from Steven Universe. She is a gem warrior, she doesn't know anything else then combat. She emerged in a poorly managed wasteland what is the foundation of her insecureties. She became known as the ultamat quarz. No other gem could compete with her. And she views everyone, that isn't at least as strong as her or even stronger than her as insuperior and not worth her time.

[@franjaff6919]

My problem is that this is barely shown in the game! We barely get any actual insight into his character wanting to be the strongest and willing to do anything to achieve that. That's a compelling trait for a villain (Vergil from DMC is very popular and a great villain for this reason). He lacks the characterisation for the motivation to come through effectively, partially down to the lack of screen time and meaningful presence. We see him in some conflicts trying to obtain a Secret Stone, but his psychopathic obsession with power doesn't feel like a motive that's explored much. We just see him being a general dick without much elaboration. Now, I'm fully expecting people to tell me how wrong I am, so I want to clarify that this is coming from someone who's as big of a Zelda fan as anyone else. Like in TP, I didn't really feel like this iteration of Ganondorf left much of an impact on me in terms of his involvement in the story. At least in TP we had the Twili as a main focal point to at least build a compelling story around. In TotK it's just Ganondorf, and I was hoping for a little more out of him

[@aedaniammx7559]

It’s funny because, in the advent of making three-dimensional villains with understandable motives and sympathies, where even the likes of Bowser has positive relations with the people under his rule, Tears of the Kingdom made a Ganondorf that’s EVEN MORE pure evil, he doesn’t even *pretend* to care about his people, he turns on the entire world the second he gets power, and his people turn on him in kind

[@cooly1234]

what games does bowser have positive relations with those he rules? In the RPGs the closest he gets is "fine I'll give you a lighter punishment for treason because you came back".

[@genericname4168]

@@cooly1234V: You’ve never played Super Mario Sunshine or the Bowser’s Minions storyline of SS 3DS

[@aedaniammx7559]

@@cooly1234 Yeah, like they said, the Bowser’s Minions side mode gives a lot of context for the minions’ undying respect for their king, but we see how they respect him in all sorts of games. Ganondorf always opts to abandon the people that rely on him the second he can create mindless monsters, but Bowser always turns to and relies on his minions in even his godliest of states.

[@andrewt329]

@@aedaniammx7559 Probably goes to show how egomania can manifest in all sorts of ways. Ganon's ego would never allow him to value another person. Bowser's ego would never allow him to exist in a world where he's not revered and served by his followers.

[@CheshireCad]

@@andrewt329 - Strangely, the way that Bowser thrives on the adoration of his followers seems to show how he respects them as people. He cares what they think of him, and tries to earn their respect honestly. His failings come from him being kind of an idiot, whose plans are always either extremely simplistic or completely hairbrained. Compare that to... another citrus-hued egomaniac, who openly detests his own followers, earns their respect purely through lies, and only cares about their praise to prop up his own narcissistic view of reality.

[@robertgamer3112]

In Wind Waker Ganondorf doesn't even claim that he wanted to help his people. He said "I coveted that wind", not "I coveted that wind for my people". And when he attempts to wish on the Triforce he doesn't try to bring his people back, he wishes for Hyrule for himself. I understand the interpretation that he cared about his people, but it's a stretch on my opinion.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

I think its a really cool take on the character but I feel like too many people think thats the reality of what he is when he isnt. I love the fullstop pure evil Ganondorf we have in the majority of games, he's fun, awesome, endlessly entertaining and badass. But I think a Ganondorf with a more sympathetic motive and who falls to corruption is cool too, because the potentional for a really good tale of a tragic desert king is RIGHT there. Enjoyed him in totk but it definitely felt like a missed opportunity to not delve a LITTLE into at least how he came to be as he is. They could definitely do both too; give him a sympathetic motive or have him start out with good intentions as he fights for himself and maybe his people too and he just keeps going farther and farther until he loses himself and his noble goals and full on becomes the evil doing, scheming, and ass beating Ganondorf we all know and love. I love Ganondorf as he is but its DEFINITELY a missed opportunity to not explore his story potential more, but it won't bother me if we don't get it, especially since fans have that covered lol. Personally I think they shouldn't go and try to make him something like the tragic Darth Vader style story where he gets corrupted by another entity and its all sad, go more the Sephiroth downfall into insanity route. Eventually his constant failures trying to liberate his people peacefully with more and more tension rising drives him mad enough to say "screw this, I'm gonna conquer the land myself" and that's when he starts to fall as he becomes more and more selfish, to a point where he is how he is in OoT without the Gerudo knowing until its too late. From a strong, prideful but noble leader to a hate-fueled evil tyrant.

[@Splitcyclewastaken]

I don't really feel as though Ganondorf has ever been portrayed as sympathetic in any iteration. I've never thought of Wind Waker's version of the character as something... better, in any real capacity. I feel like, really, Wind Waker does a good job of _humanizing_ the character without making him suddenly a misunderstood, good person who was corrupted. He's a horrible person who has had time for introspection, yes, but that introspection has not changed anything about him, ultimately. He continues to do what he was going to do anyway. He's tired, wistful, maybe. I feel like Wind Waker's iteration of Ganondorf is one of the most interesting, with more _personality_ than other versions. He's still a villain through and through.

[@1800mexicano]

No, it's pretty obvious that he is concerned about his people and driven to do what he does

[@Tacticslion]

@@1800mexicano When? “My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing… Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.” Not once does he mention caring for his people. He hates his land, sure, considers it all suffering and death (which is what many point to as him caring for others), but you know who never hated their land? The Gerudo. Even here we can’t tell how honest the dude is. Ganondorf may have saw the suffering and death as a weakening of his power base-his care in such an instance isn’t for people but for tools, which is exactly how he treats them (disposable ones, too). In this dialogue, Ganondorf doesn’t say, “I wanted that better thing for my people.” just, “I wanted that better thing.” And that just thieving. Quick review: he voluntarily pledged to a country known for their generosity and trade with exotic goods that could easily have kept his people safe and instead betrayed and murdered the ruler and put all of his people at risk in order to seize power. He did not care for those he ruled.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

@@Tacticslion Okay, then Hyrulean kings only talk about the people, because they ALREADY get all that for nothing, and can afford fiddling with the power of how to distribute it. Basically it's not even of use to them except for the fact that it creates value BY involving other people, otherwise you're just Jeff Bezos trying to fuel a moon rocket on cow feed. So these "good" people are good for letting the cattle graze, and THEY are still wearing the crown and fine linen. I mean, okay I get your point, but "caring" also was pretty trans-atlantic phenomenon in the 1600's. In fact, freed laborers reserve the right to be irrelevant and it's not your business to care.

[@GanondorfsWife]

That's why I love Ganondorf so much. He's pure evil. No tragic boo hoo backstory, no beating around the bush, no redemption arcs, just pure unfiltered unadulterated EVIL. Best part is, he loves it. Evil Ganondorf forever!!!

[@whatwhat98]

Just like those old classic Disney villains. Not the live action remake villains that are products of misunderstood events. They are evil and love it. Just like ganondorf

[@shelliblossom8953]

It's good every once in a while for a villain to be a good person gone bad but now a day that's the default setting

[@lilshrimp0628]

idk i agree with you in cases like twilight princess and ocarina of time where he’s pure evil but the fleshing out of ganondorf in wind waker, it is definitely well done and satisfying. But Ganondorf in TOTK being evil just because feels more jarring than the other cases. That’s just my opinion, though.

[@MilestheDirtyMindedGoblin2099]

I agree, it’s just so much fun to watch a man of pure evil do badass things and you stop him. Great comment you summed up why Ganondorf is so epic completely

[@blackbloom8552]

@@lilshrimp0628 i think it feels jarring in totk because they give a lot of focus to his backstory but there so little context given that we dont really learn anything from it. Even games like oot and tp give you a bit of insight on how he came to be who he is despite only giving the subject a few lines of dialogues.

[@MossOwnsYouYT]

So what this video taught me is that Ghirahim is the most successful villain as he led to the freeing of Demise, and the curse that makes the rest of the games possible. That's a really good sword.

[@cameronjadewallace]

Yeah! Compared to that, what did Masamune actually DO?!

[@Medusa7700Siren]

Yep actually he did! Ghirahim is good give him some respect 👏

[@dantesdiscoinfernolol]

The thing about Ganondorf is that his basic role in the cycle of Hyrule always has the theoretical potential to be more sympathetic. If Nintendo felt like it, they could write an incarnation of him as a less selfish, more honorable ruler, possessed by a hatred not his own. But fact is, they haven't - and there's nothing wrong with that either. Sometimes you just need an evil king to vanquish with no regrets.

[@carljohansson3512]

That is literally not how the curse of the demon tribe, the cycle of Saṃsāra, Demise and Ganondorf are established in the original Japanese text. Demise is deader than dead as his remaining thoughts/essence decayed into nothingness. The hatred he talked about is the hatred towards the gods also known as the hatred of Saṃsāra and the hatred of demons which he is a pure embodiment/manifestation/incarnation of and Ganondorf being a successor who turned himself into a demon king and also became a pure embodiment. Ganondorf's entire character is about his massive ego, his selfishness, his narcissism, his greed, his powerhunger, power obssession, passion for power, survival of the fittest, might makes right, constant war and battle creates strength, peace and harmony creates weakness, arrogance, malice, hate, grudge, pride, delusions, ignorance and eternal attachment to Saṃsāra as a result of all of his feelings, thoughts, obsessesions attachements and desires. He is a pure evil villain and if you take away who he is and try to make the player feel bad about defeating him or feel bad for him for his backstory then you have done something that goes against the fundamental purpose and inspiration for him as a whole. The appeal of Ganondorf's character is that he is an evil asshole who doesn't care about his people(with the exception of himself and Twinrova), he only wants a world where evil people can be free to be selfish, greedy, violent sociopaths that rule over the weak and torment them.

[@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003]

@@carljohansson3512oh STFU admit it you just want the same old same old same old Sh$&@ and have a series DEVOLVE Just admit it already you SIMPTONS

[@balladofthegoddess]

The alternate route of ganondorf sort of sounds like the main villain of the new Disney movie Wish, and we all know how that turned out..

[@MattSumGuy]

I've never heard anyone claim Ganondorf is misunderstood in my life. Throughout the series he is literally the embodiment of evil

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

For some reason, a bunch of people thought Ganondorf was going to "redeem" himself and overcome the curse of Demise. Some people even speculated he'd team up with Link and be the one to defeat Demise for good.

[@monk3110]

@@BaldorfBreakdowns honestly people were just thirsty for “rehydrated” dorf cuz the world is hopeless

[@KYLE1654-v7m]

People seriously say he is misunderstood? He is a villain for a reason. I'm tired of this obsessed tread of making villains seems soo innocent and misunderstood how dare you hurt them mentality!

[@Neko_Medic]

mostly comes from wind waker, which people exagerated from "horribly misguided extremist" into "ganon is actually good and link and zelda are evil". stock and edgy "villain good hero bad"

[@samwellcheck562]

There are people who think Xehanort from Kingdom Hearts was a misunderstood hero who should've won, and that guy works exclusively with mind-controlled slaves and reanimated corpse sociopaths to unmake reality and replace it with pure darkness. Some people are so caught up in edgelord morality that they have to find any way they can to twist the most unambiguously evil characters into secret anti-heroes no matter what; the more evil, the edgier. They think there are some secret, hidden dimensions to villains that only they can see, and us losers with normie morality are just ignorant bullies, when the reality is that villains having something admirable and/or tragic about them are incredibly basic and patently obvious tropes to make them competent and their motives comprehensible, as villains that suck at everything are hard to take seriously and villains that are just inhuman psychopaths are hard to believe or relate to as characters (relate to in the sense of implicitly understanding their actions and not being thrown out of the story due to confusion and disbelief, not in the sense of wanting to have a beer with them). Everyone understands that most villains aren't inherently evil and in different circumstances might've not been villains at all, doesn't make destroying towns, flooding the world with hostile monsters, and wanting to be supreme tyrant of all reality any less villainous. Villains are people that have chosen to act in ways that no just society can tolerate. Whether they like puppies or their dad was an asshole to them as a kid really has nothing to do with the fact that they have to be stopped.

[@thegreen1348]

The goddesses did NOT give ganondorf a fair shot. When link travels back in time he is already in posession of the courage part of the triforce. With that part already sent to its owner, the other two followed. It found him due to link going back to his childhood wifh the triforce of courage.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

That bit did infact slip my mind. I added a comment to address this. I appreciate the comment

[@vallidbullithead]

So what you’re saying is… Zelda absolutely doomed the timeline by basically making Crenando’s ambitions an absolute certainty no matter what?

[@lwine397]

@@vallidbullithead The royal family rather Zelda or the king almost always cause just as much damage to Hyrule as Ganon does in one way or another. I mean the events of both Majora's Mask & Twilight Princess only happened because Zelda sent Link back in time to before he killed Ganon in OoT & the Yiga in BotW were the fault of one of the kings threatening the Sheikah with banishment cause he was afraid of their technology. Then there's the many times that an evil being got the Triforce or escaped being sealed due to Zelda telling Link to pull one of many mystic swords out of its pedestal when it's acting as a locking mechanism.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

@@lwine397 They lack courage because that's hoarded by Link, so they fall to their insecurities for same reasons as Ganon does. The biggest positive achievements for good happen in the Downfall timeline offscreen, when Link doesn't pop up to ruin everything like Shiny Chariot.

[@lwine397]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 So by that logic Link should be brave but too stupid to solve puzzles because Zelda is hording wisdom and should be to weak to fight off even a bokoblin because Ganon is hording power. Someone holding a piece of the Triforce doesn't mean that all the sudden that attribute disappears from the rest of the population or else Hyrule would be full of drooling idiots & have no soliders at all. And no Hyrule was not better off when Link wasn't there since the goddesses destroyed Hyrule to stop Ganon from having it in WW or in the fallen timeline it's implyed Hyrule suffered under Ganon's rule.

[@nawakening370]

In TP Ganondorf had the triforce of power because when Link returned to the past he still had the triforce of courage, so when Zelda returned Link to the past the triforce went to the Zelda and ganondorf of the past

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yo I had never even thought of that. I also should've elaborated more on why it was pieces in wind waker but because the part of the game is so frustrating I tend to zone out of it completely when I'm getting the shards so I totally forgot why they're in piece but I do remember that it's somewhat explained

[@jetho9859]

​@@TheHonoredMadman It's something like the hero lost the qualities that made him a hero, and the shards represent the individual qualities. I don't know for sure. I've only watched one playthrough of the game a while back.

[@fangzntalonz]

@@jetho9859 he couldn’t have, he was gone from that timeline. That’s probably why it’s shattered, that piece of the Triforce had to reform from nothing

[@jetho9859]

@@fangzntalonz I feel like I remember dialogue like that though. I'm really not sure though. I've never played the game myself. I only watched a playthrough.

[@DarkMirria1]

Precisely! Well said.

[@corrinflakes9659]

I think OOT Ganondorf’s motives began sympathetic and reasonable long before the story began, but his wrath to seek revenge on Hyrule’s gov’t spiraled into buying into the malice. Becoming a demon was something he just accepted the role.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

One cannot deny one's nature

[@jacobj3933]

I still take WW Ganon to be separate from Oot. The narrative in OoT is basic good vs evil. Looking too much into a game where a sequel adds in info that was never implied or intended by the previous game, is always going to be shaky or well questionable. That's my issue with arguments based on sequels, while WW is still technically Ganondorf it's not the same Ganondorf narratively speaking. Oot Ganon was always the basic "I want to rule the world because I believe I deserve to" type of villain. WW Ganon adds in info that was never in OoT, while Twilight Ganon is still more true to how he was in OoT. I take what WW version said with a grain of salt. I also generally dislike at attempts at making a stereotypical villain sympathetic especially when throughout a franchise they have never been intended to be sympathetic.

[@janaguirre4756]

Ganondorf is not misunderstood, he came in with a mission and he took the entire kingdom with him

[@dawsonglawe3203]

The main problem with Ganondorf is that, even ignoring Demise's curse, he's always a grown man. He's not some misguided zealot, and even if he was, he's already set in his ways. You can't change his mind, because by the time Link or Zelda are even born, he's already plotting how to destroy Hyrule. You can't redeem someone whose been irredeemable since you first met. That's just dumb.

[@owenbridgers]

Yeah in most cases its literal children fighting a Grown ass adult

[@wobbegong4366]

While wind waker Ganondorf is still my favourite Ganondorf I cannot deny that circumstances have dictated that, unless the curse of demise is broken, he will always be the incarnation of pure evil. That being said I would love to see a version of Ganondorf who is aware of Demise’s curse and tries to work together with Link and Zelda to lift it. Only to ultimately be consumed by it. MajorLink’s most recent video had a fantastic take on this.

[@nihilriv3r]

I want him to become an anti-villain if the cycle of Demise is broken or retconned. Make him hate the divines and lust for the power to destroy them like Gorr the God Butcher, he could still be overwhelmingly powerful and cruel but you can tell he is carrying out what he truly believes in out of duty, not greed. I want him to not understand why the Gerudo stopped following him and have it feed into his innate hatred. Him empathizing with the heroes bravery yet feeling the need to kill Link without hesitation would make fantastic cutscenes now that we have voice acting. Let's be clear though, his version of feeling bad about something or respecting his enemies in any way would still be considered not actually caring to the regular person. In the end it's all justifications and delusions to fit his power seeking nature.

[@waltuh2412]

Honestly I don’t think Demises “curse” is an actual curse. I think he just sees so much hypocrisy in Hylia and the Goddesses that it’s inevitable that there will be someone like him who’ll develop that same hatred of the light, in a sense inheriting his hatred. This inheritor of course being our humble redhead boar man

[@MG-mh8xp]

y'all are gonna be shocked when a game features "vaati, the demon king"

[@MG-mh8xp]

honest to god, demise doesn't reincarnate into ganon. the games literally don't say that. demise talks about an incarnation of his hatred. that's not a "reincarnation" that's just someone passing along the torch of hatred. Ganondorf is a fascist that had so much evil in his heart that he became a demon king. and once he became a demon king, he was near impossible to kill(demon's don't die, even the lowliest demons, bokoblin.) when he gained the power of the triforce, he replaced all the gerudo with demons that would listen to his every word. he's searching for power. you wanna know why "incarnation" is used specifically? Vaati is ALSO an incarnation of Demise's hatred. so is Aghanhim. multiple incarnations of demise's hatred can exist at once as well! that's the best part! demise was never reincarnated. demise is still sealed inside of the master sword. if demise TRIED to reincarnate himself, he simply wouldn't be able to. so he only sends out an incarnation, and there can be multiple incarnations. the best part about all of this is the metaphor. most zelda fans don't notice this, but it's a metaphor about hatred. hatred will always exist. there will always be evil people in the world. and we should ALWAYS fight against it. there will always be racism, homophobia, and more, and we should always push against it. Demise IS Hatred. it's literally his name. he is the King of Demons, who are beings filled with Hate for life. and like in the real world, Demise's Hatred will never cease to exist, and a hero should ALWAYS rise to stop it. people like Ganon and Vaati and others will always arise, filled with hatred and a lust for power, and they will always be destroyed by the power of good.

[@waltuh2412]

@@MG-mh8xp im pretty sure aghanhim is just ganon in disguise

[@chizik7777]

Wind waker Ganondorf was top tier. its like you said, his hand was right there, ready for his wish to be granted and for him to finally have everything he's waited lifetimes for. he laughs for the same reason, he gets the cosmic joke of his unending pursuit for the holy land and i feel its this ganondorf we see his "snapping" moment. OoT he descended into madness during the 7 year period where he solidifies himself as demon king. When you first walk up and he tells you of his homeland he ends by telling you he's not going to kill you, he only wants the power you hold and its not until Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule steals the wish to bury the holy land beneath the waves does Ganondorf lose it and resolve to kill 2 adolescent thorns in his side. I've always thought about his twisted ear-to-ear grin as he rushes forward for that initial haymaker and the longer i stared the more i thought about how its not even looking at Link and here we fight Ganondorf the Broken Madman. not to mention the orchestra hit as soon as the fight starts is one hell of a mood setter :D

[@airistal]

Demise had said an incarnation of his hatred, not soul. In essence if someone has enough hate, intent, and drive then they will be touched by the malice of Demise and it will drive them further then they would have gone themselves. In Ganondorfs case he got more done with it plaguing multiple generations himself. However a case can be made that every big bad in the Zelda series shares in Demises curse.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

So basically similar to LiveALive and Demon King Odio. Makes sense to me.

[@jeremychicken3339]

Malladus and Bellum come to mind when you say that...

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@jeremychicken3339 i wanted to add Vaati, but he existed alongside Ganondorf for a point, so it is questionable if he would count....

[@jeremychicken3339]

@@aureliodeprimus8018 maybe at one point.

[@juniebugbear]

I kinda don’t agree? If that’s the case why does ganondorf have a reincarnation cycle like Zelda and link

[@sniddler9114]

(The literal incarnation of hate and evil itself) "I'm gonna get rid of the king and conquer Hyrule for literally no reason" The fans: "I can fix him"

[@smile-tl9in]

It is strongly implied that the gerudo were exterminated in twillight princess. That the arbirer grounds were their jail and ultimatly death camp.

[@theophany4935]

Damn

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

especially tragic because they clearly didn't care about Ganondorf and he clearly didn't care about them. he left them in the desert to be ravaged by the storms and beasts for those 7 years, and in return they all hated him.

[@XX-sp3tt]

WIND WAKER Ganondrof is tragic, because he's had time to stop and reflect, without the temptation of the Triforce to warp his thinking. When he has the Triforce in his hands at last, he doesn't wish for Godhood or to rule the world... he wishes for Hyrule... because it's become his obsession. He's also the only Ganondorf to remember his REAL REASON for wanting to invade Hyrule... and thus the only Ganondorf to escape Demise's curse.

[@NL-X]

I don't think Ganondorf is a person that was cursed. He IS the hate of Demise reborned as a human (as he says my hate never perishes). Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise just like Zelda is Hylia's, so no, Ganon is not cursed, he is the curse.

[@BaslightBatekeepBoyboss]

No. Ganondorf is never tragic, and never will be. He is evil incarnate. HE IS DEMISE. A demon of unparalleled evil. If WW Ganondorf got what he wanted, it would only be a matter of time before he fell into his old ways. Evil nevrr disappears, it only changes form.

[@madamefluffy4788]

I think people misinterpret Ganondorf's 'I coveted that wind, I suppose' as him wishing to have been living in the lands of Hyrule (where the wind was gentle) rather than in the harsh deserts of Gerudo Valley (where the wind always brought death) when all that speech was really about was him desiring to have another source of power (in this case the wind). It was always about power/control for Ganondorf. He was never written to be a character folks should sympathize with.

[@desmondcoppin591]

@@BaslightBatekeepBoyboss he’s not tragic, but what the comment said is true.

[@whimsycottt]

I honestly hate Demise as a concept because it ruins WW Ganondorf's motivation. It becomes an inevitable conclusion because destiny made him do it, instead of him being a desperate man who envied the prosperity of his neighbors and drove him to do evil. WW Ganondorf did it because he was power hungry yes, but he had good intentions that were eventually lost to the corruption of power. Him being a flesh suit for Demise ruins his choice.

[@Eagercheetah20]

Ganondorf is not misunderstood as he’s a selfish, self appointed king of evil who either wants to rule hyrule or destroy it so he can fulfill his lust for power and he always ends up hurting/killing someone to do it in the end he’s just a self entitled dictator whose power isn’t even his own

[@williambenton9959]

Only thing to correct is "self-appointed king" It's Gerudo tradition that a male born to the Gerudo, something that happens only once in a century, becomes their King. But king of the Gerudo is not enough, he wishes to rule all of Hyrule (narratively the whole world)

[@raphaelschluter6104]

For years I had this "fangame" in my head. In short: a Evil King of Hyrule would steal/wield the triforce piece of wisdom and enslave the people with contracts and unjust laws and the Protagonist would be a young Ganondorf who breaks his chains after being imprisoned and defeat the evil king and free the posessed/misled Link and Zelda. Moral of the story a opponent you can't outsmart you just have to overpower with sheer strength and effort. essentially a reverse twilight princess Ganondorf.

[@guyWSonicpicture]

I always felt that the reasons Ganondorf had in OoT and what he says in WW felt more like him trying to rationalize/justify his pure lust for power and control. Even if he wins he'd not stop there and it would never be enough for him, he'd continue to look for more and more control and power.

[@CarlosRIOS777]

I like to imagine Ganondorf as a child being similar to child Voldemort. He always had a knack for evil. Either in the TOTK incarnation or the one raised by the twin witches, I feel like his evil was present even as a kid. I wish we saw that to confirm it.

[@HHGamingOfficial]

Regarding what you said at 4:53 about Ganondorf. I always believed that Demise placed a curse in Skyward Sword that destined a new heir to the throne as the king of evil. As Ganondorf's existence alone was a rare case, because he's a male / voe being born into the Gerudo. It only makes sense that this rare case was no accident. It was the curse Demise placed many years prior finally rebirthing the king of evil upon Kotake and Koume's ritual.

[@alfalldoot6715]

I hope we get another male gerudo that isn't Ganondorf at some point and maybe get a vision of what a "good" version of him would actually look like.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

That would be a great idea. Imagine being born after Ganondorf and so he has to live with the "baggage" of it.

[@legalza0843]

Even better idea: Ganondorf with the curse of demise broken (or at least put on hold or nullified in some way for the game?) and link is forced to team up with the now regretful Ganon against some new powerful threat

[@an-animal-lover]

​​@@legalza0843 I'd like an alternate universe sort of game where we could play as Ganondorf

[@legalza0843]

@@an-animal-lover Well there is hyrule warriors, you get to play as Ganon and other villains he’s teamed up with against hyrules forces as part of the main story

[@yukimura4574]

I think the guy who sold us the woman clothes to get into Gerudo in BOTW is the closest thing we'll ever get to a male gerudo that isn't Ganondorf xd

[@tylerbarse2866]

There's actually an implied reasoning in Ocarina of Time as to why Ganondorf still retained the triforce of Power in Twilight Princess. Link still retained his Triforce of Courage when he was sent back to his child body. Just like Zelda's plan to stop ganondorf opened the door for him to enter the sacred realm, her trying to help link actually caused more problems than it fixed.

[@skyesilverwing8922]

I actually think Ganondorf survived his execution in the Child Timeline due to the Curse of Demise, rather than the interference of the actual Goddesses or the Triforce.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

To a degree that is true. The curse made nothing happen. It just took a man who was worthy of it and gave him the willpower to save himself. Effectively stealing the power he needed for himself. He IS the thief king, after all. Taking the power of the gods against their will is quite fitting.

[@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003]

Totally agree I love this interpretation very much

[@DarkDeviDevil]

Something tells me that when Nintendo created Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, they just completely rewritten the Zelda franchise as a whole so that it makes more sense. The past games are mere myths of the two games and the Calamity are basically when Ganon comes back and causes havoc to the world of Hyrule. And the idea that Ganondorf obtained the power of the Secret stone of Time, by killing the queen of Hylians, Sonia, (spoilers) to your point, essentially becoming a time god. And the fact that Demise even stated that his hate can never perish and someone like him will come and take his place, basically becoming the incarnation of hatred and malice, like himself. So to put it simply, Evil is Timeless. No matter how many times we kill him, no matter how many timelines it takes for the curse to be broken, Demise is basically a demon time god of evil, malice, and hatred. You can’t kill evil, because it will never die. So Ganondorf isn’t misunderstood, he’s just evil for the sake of being evil.

[@topcat59]

no matter what goodwill ganondorf has in the end is fated to bring despair to the world he wishes to dominate.😔🐱

[@ninjafrog6966]

Not every villain has to be sympathetic or “misunderstood” Sometimes we can have villains that are just evil for the sake of being evil. Ganondorf is not a sympathetic or misunderstood villain, he’s just evil, and that’s ok. Not every villain has to have some tragic backstory that makes them sympathetic in some way, some can just be evil, and that’s what ganondorf is

[@thisisnotaustin1]

being "misunderstood" is also not the only way to have a sympathetic villain. for example, you can sympathize with walter white's desire to provide for his family and still recognize that he's an evil man.

[@Nebyulosity]

Plus, Ganondorf isn't just supposed to be over-the-top, arbitrary evil like some poorly written, mortal comic book character, he's a manifestation of evil itself, as if it were a force of nature or even a divine, supernatural force. His is an evil that transcends humanity. He can't be misunderstood or sympathized with in the same way that a tornado, an earthquake, or a divine curse can't be misunderstood or sympathized with. That's exactly how the manifestation of a divine evil curse SHOULD feel: Completely and utterly malicious.

[@TheSuperRatt]

You have to admit that it is tiring to have the SAME evil villain over and over and over again, with few alterations.

[@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003]

@@TheSuperRattyup and after years I’ve given up hope after the Wind Waker of Nintendo evolving the plot going forward with ganondorf to the point I don’t even care anymore when ganon is a thing I literally stopped caring a game series story that truly seems like it’s going nowhere

[@codysingh5939]

I always thought ganondorf represent a harsh reality that some people are evil, manipulative terrible people and they will always be that way to the day they die. Some people don't accept that and will continue to make excuses for other people saying things like he just misunderstood.

[@Fox515-r3o]

Mans needs a vacation

[@buttssanchez6763]

There is definitely a modern need to recast villains as misunderstood, identifiable, or misguided. But sometimes you don't need that. Sometimes you just need an antagonist who is selfish, self-serving, vicious, and cruel because they enjoy that. Ganondorf was literally born into power as the ruler of his people, handed the literal power of gods, and it was never enough for him. He never wanted to rule to make the kingdom better, he wanted to rule for the sake of saying he ruled, and for the sake of doing whatever the hell he felt like. And maybe yeah, it was forced on him by a dark god's curse, but you know damn well that if he ever found that out all he'd do is continue to perpetuate the cycle and use that knowledge against Link and Zelda time and time again.

[@blu7384]

Fr sometimes it’s fun to just have a bad guy. No moral dilemma. No “was he really a bad guy?” bs. Mfs just be evil lmao. Like one of my favorite characters I’ve ever made was for a DnD campaign and it was a megalomaniacal Lich hellbent on “killing the world” & resurrecting it so he could use it to kill and take other worlds just because he wanted to

[@Rauruatreides]

It's good you mentioned how Ganondorf would react to the curse. Unlike what some may think, Ganondorf wouldn't become a good guy just because he knows why he is the way he is, he would see it as something to legitimate his domination.

[@renren47618]

Yeah, i really tired of this "misunderstood villain" troupe Of course, there are interesting characters of this troupe but... It's very saturated and it feels mostly very annoying when they take villains that once were just evil and suddenly they become tragic.

[@Scatmanseth]

You’re not wrong in a general sense, having an irredeemable villain isn’t a bad thing and it’s becoming cliche. I just think a story of a fall from grace would be a nice change of pace for a Zelda game. Not one that makes Ganon justified, per se, but one where his initial motivation is noble like in Wind Waker but it becomes obvious how he turns more and more evil until it’s little more than an excuse for the sins he commits.

[@RevanX77]

The issue is that this is just incredibly boring. Literally the exact same thing over and over again. Nintendo took a big leap with BoTW and ToTK to change up the Zelda formula because they thought it needed to evolve, but for some reason this idea never extended to the story, which ended up being not only the basic TLoZ tropes again but also BoTW beat-for-beat repeated.

[@adamflux2]

I don’t think any one misunderstands Ganon, it’s simply that wind water ganon was given a humanizing backstory. He was still absolutely going to try and murder people and conquer the world, he was simply given some psychology. He never said, “I wanted that wind for my people” he said “I coveted that wind” never diverting from his fundamentally selfish nature. He’s not an antihero in the windwaker soliloquy, he is simply an introspective villain. There, it took just 2 minutes to write all this, let me give you bake the rest of the time.

[@elicenyne]

“No, I’m not misunderstood. You understand me perfectly.” - Ganondorf (REAL (NOT FAKE))

[@Sebastian-ib2ww]

I do think that having a tragic king who loses himself as the time passes because of being the incarnation of evil is a missed opportunity, but in the case of Ganondorf, I don't think it is a opportunity worth taking

[@Sebastian-ib2ww]

Besides, and this is purely my opinion, I think he is more interesting the way he is now

[@milokonna]

Even though I wasn't expecting totk to have much story in it, I was hoping that they would explore a bit more of his life as a gerudo dude, before becoming that larger-than-life mighty figure. Especially since they took a dump on the continuity between botw and older games, they could have gotten creative with that iteration of Ganon/Dorf. But how it turned out in the final product, somehow felt a bit bare-bone even compared to Oot. Really cool boss and a menacing presence throughout the game, but story-wise just a sufficient baddie. On the other hand, I'm glad they didn't try to soften him. As much as I would like more complexity for him, I also like him being a bad bitch. Some GRRM touch could've been interesting.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yeah this game to me atleast blew botw out of the water in terms of the story, the gameplay too by a mile but I totally agree. Ganondorf characterization and role in the story is basically a rehash of what he did in oot ( which is also his backstory in ww and tp because it's the same ganon but he has alot more characterization and a clearly defined personality and reasoning for what he does) like he did all the stuff he always does but this time it all happened 10000 years ago. His portrayal was great and his artsyle was badass, but he really just did what he always does. I wasn't expecting him to be an ally in this one like some people were hoping but I did expect a bit more nuance. Especially after being absent for botw. He looks great especially when he becomes demise again but it seems like in this timeline or whatever that he fully knows he's demises reincarnation and is attempting to reach his previous power again they just removed the triforce from the equation. Which now leads me to believe this is set post spirit tracks but it probably isnt haha. But yeah this ganondorf seems to just be ambitious and power hungry with no redeeming qualities.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

That being said I do love wit when ganon is at his most evil and menacing. Like he matched the menace of twilight princess ganondorf which is the golden standard for me, and as a plus he was actually in more than just the back half of the game. Overall great showing but I totally agree a grrm or similar take on ganon would be great. Shit just a read a novel from his perspective would be dope. I gotta see if some of the Mangas do a bit of that

[@CassiusTheSecond]

@@TheHonoredMadman As I've seen from a post, the english version seems to be missing some context regarding the story and the characterization of Ganon as far as I'm hearing. In the Japanese version, Ganon desires to abolish the Zonai for their Divine intervention and how soft the world becomes, which he desires to bring the world once more to its original shape. Fractured parts still remains in the English version. In the scene of court to make an alliance with the Zonai, his dialogue implies just a little bit of his motivation in the English version, but the Japanese version is more explicit; or once he becomes the Demon King and (unfortunately) murdering Queen Sonia of Hyrule to be granted the Tear, he speaks to Raru by his words "You tried to control me Raru... knowing that you failed" It seems the story in TOTK is realized and fleshed out, howbeit, we do not see the context or the motives of Ganon. Only the remaining parts which alludes to the evidence, which might bother or even hinder what people will perceive upon the story of TOTK. I loved it, but it is poorly given to us as the story is good since again, they seem to have tne full story but chose to put few of it to theorize more. Little note: Loved your video! Great work!

[@santiagopomares6287]

@@CassiusTheSecond Yeah, in the spanish version instead of "beating a worthy foe would have been more satisfying" he says "in the older days, there used to be real suffering", which implies he believes that peace makes weak people, but I still haven't found a japanese translation

[@CassiusTheSecond]

@@santiagopomares6287 There was a comment section from a video that many people who played other languages, including Spanish (as you mentioned), Japanese, Italian and such all elaborate on Ganon's motivation and fleshing out the story. The English localization seem to be the only translation to be affected by poor wordings and phrases, though, only fractured parts lives on. The comment section in some videos of TOTK and the lore or Ganondorf is where I seen them, as well as one post in Reddit. If I could find, I will be surely to post the link to the post! Thanks for your commenting! Side note: my opinion on TOTK Ganon and the story is that I loved it! One of the best in the series for sure in my opinion!

[@Korvilon]

I was obsessed with Wind Waker. Breath of the wild and now Tears of the Kingdom remind me so much of it.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Same here. Especially rito village theme and of course the koroks

[@KysEcstacy]

@@TheHonoredMadman dont forget colgera

[@tylerpetersen6226]

I personally would love to see a take on Ganondorf where he is made aware of the curse of Demise somehow and his role in it. Where he realizes ultimately he is a puppet forced to act out Demise's will and decides to seek out the power to end the curse out of sheer spite of being someone's unwitting slave. An interesting take on it could be him revealing the truth to Zelda and Link both agreeing that they hate the cycle as well but not being willing to pay the price they would have to end the cycle. Wherein Zelda and Link are forced to fight Ganondorf only to literally reenact the curse with Ganondorf's last words being something along the lines of I only wanted to free us from fate but you have doomed us to it would be an interesting take on the pursuit of power that Ganondorf is meant to embody.

[@lasercraft32]

Saying Ganondorf is misunderstood is like saying Thanos is misunderstood...

[@williambenton9959]

"Lady death be lookin' kinda nice" or, conversely "Halve the universe because resources, but don't double the resources, just erase half of life" if you're a big MCU fan.

[@SapostropheAint]

This is why I like him. His character very concise and straightforward.

[@jealousyxanderblood7894]

A wise man once said “Some men can’t be reasoned with, bought, or reconciled. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

[@themonkeyman2910]

Ganondorf may be stuck in the eternal reincarnation like Link and Zelda. But rather then being stuck in his role and with no other choices to make, Ganondorf embraces it and relishes in it. He may be an unfortunate victim of Demise, but he is still evil.

[@DoctorPorkenfries]

8:27 I think Ganondorf got the ToP because of something of an inverse of what happened in the adult timeline. If you look at Link's hand when he returns to his child form in the ending, he still bears the mark of the ToC. Meaning that, by sending Link back to his original time with the Triforce, Zelda inadvertantly broke that Triforce up, and the individual parts went to those most deserving of them, and Ganondorf was most deserving of Power.

[@KestrelDC]

When he tried to take the Triforce, didn’t it literally shatter from his impure heart and only leave the part he “qualified” for, being Power, behind for him to be able to do anything with? That doesn’t sound very misunderstood. 🤷

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

technically it wasn't his impure heart, it was that he didn't have a balance of wisdom courage and power which is what it takes to claim the whole triforce, but close enough to the gist of it

[@Gerudo_King]

Demise and the curse that bound him to the Gerudo isn’t misunderstood. But I believe the Gerudo King himself could have a chance to grow without being manipulated by Demose if that power were to ever be suppressed.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

We also have to take into account that he was raised by twinrova. Honestly oot ganondorf never had a chance to be better

[@TheDeadmanstrolling]

Demise is sealed in the master sword. By the time TotK rakes place, I doubt Demise has much power. Yet TotKdorf still wants power for power's sake, thinking Rauru and the Hylians cowards for accepting peace without first fighting for it.

[@Gerudo_King]

@@TheDeadmanstrolling Demise made the curse shortly before his body failed so I think it’s possible. Ganon is to Demise as Calamity Ganon is to Ganondorf. Ganon has always been able to split his consciousness and stockpile power while incapacitated. Hell, even Ganondorf being sealed by a progenitor of Sacred Light was still able to manifest a whole ass apocalyptic force of nature to ravage the kingdom. So I don’t see why Demise himself wouldn’t be able to do the same despite being trapped in the Master Sword.

[@KimbaLemur]

@@Gerudo_King excecly why I think people thinking of Ganon being free from the curse is funny. many dont seem to get it.. Ganon & Demise are one & the same. Same being but Diffrent form. even the games gives subtle hints. Ganon always being revived. Only once he died but still came back.. aka reincarnated & not incarnated in like Link & Zelda in most of there incarnatins. tears of the kindfom really made it more clear on such to when he stole a secret stone.

[@AlexG32777]

​@@TheDeadmanstrolling (sorry in advance for this being so long) the way I think of it is that Gannondorf isn't a reincarnation of Demise but instead a reincarnation of Demise's hatred, if that makes sense. Demise's hatred of the "gods tribe" was so powerful that even when his body was destroyed and his spirit was sealed away his hatred lived on as it's own entity, that is the curse of the demon tribe, his hatred is so great that it corrupts the souls of even other demons, blinding them and forcing them to desire only power. Eventually that hatred that lived on was born as a man named Gannondorf, because of this his greatest desire was the same as Demise's, ultimate power. But Gannondorf doesn't know this and because of that he doesn't understand why he wants that, I think that the whole "I just wanted to help my people" thing isn't a complete lie in the sense that Gannondorf genuinely believes this is true but the reality is that his mind made that up as a coping mechanism to rationalize his overwhelming desire for power. It's once he achieves this desire for ultimate power (like he partially does in Ocarina of Time, fully does in the prologue of A Link to the Past, and his reincarnation also succeeds at in Tears of the Kingdom) that he becomes fully overtaken by the true goal fueling this desire, the same goal as Demise, to destroy this world and from its ashes create a world of darkness and evil. Spoilers for TotK but we can actually see this happen, the clip is shown in the video but when Gannondorf gets what he wants, he becomes completely unhinged and the item he steals enhances the evil power that already existed within him. In TotK he even tells you what his goal is multiple times and it's the same thing that Demise says and that ALttP Gannon says, to plunge this world into a eternal night and envelop it in darkness.

[@smiley4995]

Tbh I do wonder how much is Ganondorf and how much is Demise. I wonder if the reason he seems more reasonable in Windwaker is because Demise is influencing him less in this timeline due to the triforce of courage being absent for so long.

[@SEMIA123]

People be like: Ganondorf in WW was so justified and relatable HE COMMITTED GENOCIDE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T BUILD INSULATED HOUSES

[@rottenranch7917]

"Ganon is misunderstood" honestly that reads the same as "Griffith did nothing wrong"

[@nazek4216]

People really will see a cool evil guy and immediately forget the 'evil' part

[@tarnw3301]

Griffith was emotionally manipulated after a year of torture. Then, he choose to sacrifice his friends' lives because they themselves have offered him long ago and he didn't want the lives of his deceased soldiers to go to waste. If someone made the deal with Ganondorf, he would take the deal in a sec without torture nor emotional manipulation been required.

[@nazek4216]

@@tarnw3301 Actually, would he even be able to make the sacrifice? I'm not convinced he has anyone he truly loves/cares about.

[@T_667]

I wanted to comment this so I searched to see if someone already did and here it is lol, you're completely right.

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

@@tarnw3301 Griffith always intended to become Femto. The emotional manipulation and torture just sped up the process.

[@speedude0164]

To me, Ganondorf's speech in Wind Waker isn't about trying to help his people, it's him trying to understand what's really been driving him all these years. He sought to conquer Hyrule for nearly his whole life and never gave any of it a second thought, but now nearing his final battle, he questions the purpose behind it, ultimately attributing it to envy over the contrast between Hyrule's peaceful life and the difficult conditions of his own land. While that could very well be what awakened his hatred, the truth is that as the reincarnation of Demise, seeking the ultimate power at all costs is just a part of who he is. An evil man driven by greed and boundless ambition trying to rationalize his nature near the end of his journey is such a fascinating take on Ganondorf's character.

[@edwardramos4591]

I find Ganondorf to be in a similar vein to Dio Brando from Jojo. Sure, their early days may have sucked, but they are ultimately born creatures of ambition with voids for hearts that aren't satisfied unless they are at the absolute top (if it was as about the Gerudo as people think, then I'm certain Ganondorf would have been content with simple peace talks, just as Dio would probably have been content with the better living arrangement if it had been just about growing up under a POS father). Regardless of circumstance, they are crazy and they need to go down. I think the view of Ganondorf as a tragic pawn of fate is mainly the result of fans taking the 'coveted the wind' speech, the Beast Ganon form, and his status as one of many forms that Demise's curse can take, and running with all the potential angles for sympathy they can mine from that. The fact of the matter is that Ganondorf has an idea what he is and, outside of Wind Waker to a degree, clearly relishes in it: the Great King of Evil meant to rule the world no matter how much destruction he has to cause.

[@blackmark2899]

The Hero of Time didn't just pass on his skill to a successor, he passed it on to his direct descendant, another Link. It's the first time that two Links have been able to meet. He wasn't just bad ass, he was laying pipe. Although that does mean that the Hero of Time never reincarnated until he met the Hero of Twilight and trained him. So the Hero of Twilight wasn't the hero's reincarnation, he was just a badass that inherited the his Triforce of Courage from his ancestor.

[@M4x.1520]

Gannon would never do something like this, glory to master kohga

[@MagnificantSasquatch]

No, nooo, you don’t understand, he was sad for five minutes in Wind Waker, that just means he’s a poor misunderstood baby that only needs a thirsty fan to fix him, because he’s a bad boy who can change and not the literal fucking reincarnation of the actual cut-and-dry Devil.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

This is the best comment

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

Trust me bro, if he got his wish he would have become a moral and just king and ruled over Hyrule even more efficiently and with more peace than any king before.

[@wyzasukitan]

6:46 I shall now be referring to most, if not all, of Link’s incarnations as the ‘time travelling war orphan’

[@arrowrandoman]

I came to figure out what the title meant about Ganondorf. I stayed for the great summary. It's cool to see how telling the story and hints of personal review add a fun personality to what I thought would only be an analysis on the versions of Ganondorf. It reminds me of a friend sitting me down and introducing me to a new fandom. I like how comfy and conversational it feels.

[@craig-machine8137]

It's been a while since I've commented, but when it's Zelda I gotta do it. I never really looked at Wind Waker Ganondorf that way for some reason, but now that you've pointed it out I see it. I really gotta replay the old Zelda games, it's been too long.

[@therealslimweegee]

Saying Ganondorf is misunderstood has the same vibes as saying The Galactic Empire was in the right in Star Wars.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

So it was 8 pieces of triforce and not 13, I know it's explained somewhere why it was split into pieces but I have this longstanding beef with that part of the game that whenever I play it I zone out and go through it, plus I didn't wanna get sidetracked again. Also some people have commented that link in tp had the triforce because of his ancestor so therefore ganon also did in tp timeline

[@TheHonoredMadman]

I tend to forget some of the finer nuances of the time travel and it's consequences from oot

[@cheddarsunchipsyes8144]

@@TheHonoredMadmanNo problem

[@johnnyscifi]

Ganon was behind the scenes in A Link to the Past for 90% of that game...yet still, the game is well beloved

[@iantaakalla8180]

Not only is that Ganon at least sort of present through Agahnim, but Agahnim is basically the evil person doing stuff so there might as well be a Ganon(dorf). Also, it is the gameplay and classic story that makes A Link to The Past

[@adamschank7703]

If I remeber correctly, I believe his original intentions were to deliver his people to a more hospitable land. Somewhere along the line, though, his once pure intentions were corrupted by jeolousy, hatred, and a lust for power. While his original motivation may have been understandable, it cannot, by any means, justify the actions he has taken.

[@bonyeni]

I’m sincerely concerned for people who think a character so outright malicious and cruel is the victim of some “misunderstanding”

[@annegrey6447]

For me, Windwaker & finding out about how harsh Gerudo life is makes me sympathize with how he probably grew up. I also wonder sometimes, with the endless cycle of death & rebirth if the goddesses would allow the bearers to turn out any other way?Still doesn’t excuse the power hungry tyrant he chose to become. Pity the child we never get to see & ruthlessly vanquish the adult hellbent on destruction.

[@ThommyofThenn]

I don't fk with Zelda really but i do fk with these videos and your signature outro

[@ThommyofThenn]

In fact I just partook in the outro ceremony lol

[@VenusFeuerFalle]

Didn't Ganondor ultimately killed his own followers to ensure noone grasps the Triforce before him? No he didn't care for his people, he didn't hated they suffered, he hated he suffered with them.

[@FierceDeity35]

Even if there was no triforce, he'll slaughter his own troops to absorb their power.

[@wolfgod6443]

I think Ganondorf is a case of "human" being mistaken for "good". He comes off as maybe, *not* a pure evil all powerful monster because his ambition, reaction to events, and those brief snippets of introspection feel somewhat relatable. I think it's actually kind of touching that people try to see the good in him. Too often we're swarmed by analysis of humans who are really monsters, or rather people want to tell others the depths of depravity humans can sink to. Ganondorf is a more literal representation of that, becoming a pig monster half the time which reflects his soul or whatever, and yet the majority of analysis on his character actively chooses to see the humanity in him instead.

[@Kayachlata]

The gods flooding Hyrule did far more damage than Ganondorf did. I'd be upset too

[@carcerharlson9767]

"Don't you see? All of you... YOUR GODS DESTROYED YOU!!!"

[@tensiahuddleston9983]

He lost a lot of my sympathy when he referred to the people of the Great Sea as "pathetic little creatures" strewn across the sea like leaves adrift in a basin." Not seeing how the people and other species had managed to survive and thrive despite the so-called "destruction" the Gods gave them. They moved on from old Hyrule, Ganondorf did not. He clearly thought they were beneath him, and felt there was only one way to make anything better: His!😡

[@KimbaLemur]

@@tensiahuddleston9983 You should see what he says in the origenal japanese version of his mocking of others. lol

[@Tubular_dude_20y_ago]

​@@KimbaLemur Oh? Does he say something different? Could you paraphrase it?

[@acgearsandarms1343]

It also condemned the Master Sword, and by extension Fi, to be drowned with the kingdom forevermore.

[@sirzorg5728]

My headcannon is that the timelines slowly heal back together, and BotW/TotK is after the WW great sea slowly dries away. The biggest evidence for this is that BotW has both Rito and Zora. This wouldn't be possible in either timeline taken alone.

[@DarkMirria1]

Before the events of Skyward Sword the “Surface” the people of Skyloft refer to it as was called the Realm of Hylia, you find this out once you pass through the Gate of Time into the Temple of Hylia and then walk outside.☝🏻

[@amyeasler2086]

Twilight princess gannondorf got the triforce of power because link brought his triforce of courage back in time with him spliting the triforce in child timeline

[@ryanedgerton1982]

So, crazy thought: what if the "divine prank" of Ganondorf unexpectedly getting the Triforce of Power in LoZTP is part of a grand plan to prevent the full rebirth of Demise? Think about it: by having each successive reincarnation of Ganondorf bound to the Triforce in some way, the goddesses are able to exert their power through it and chip away at Demise's curse, weakening future Ganondorfs in the process. Plus, splitting Demise's curse across multiple timelines has got to have a further weakening effect, even with his whole stolen-time-god thing going on. In a way, we can view the LoZ timeline as just one really elaborate, drawn-out exorcism ritual. Something to think about.

[@jessecook4466]

The butchery of Kakarikos pronunciation was crazy😂 great vid man

[@yang6642]

20:10, there actually is an answer here canonically I’m pretty sure. Basically the Gerudo were driven out of the desert after Ganondorf was arrested, they ended up settling in the Desert of Doubt as shown in Four Swords Adventures, the game that follows Twilight Princess in the timeline.

[@beedlebur]

This was a great summary of Ganon's lore throughout the games, I didn't realize how close TOTK Ganondorf was to OOT Ganondorf!

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yeah it's almost a rehash in some ways just replace triforce with the zonal tears. I like that it shows alot more in totk about ganondorfs time as leader of the gerudo and actually shows the moment he went from warrior king to scheming political leader with a specialty in manipulation and dark magic although I like that in totk they see thru his blatant ruse of swearing fealty but for some reason do nothing about it until it's far too late

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

@@TheHonoredMadman They do nothing because they're so arrogant that they believe he can't do anything to them. This is why Rauru takes sonia's death so hard, because he blames himself and feels that he let ganondorf get too close to her because of his folly. It's why he's willing to die, he feels it's his penance for allowing sonia to die

[@syl3924]

imo, if they do a new iteration of Ganondorf again, I think it'd be interesting if they cut that particular version off of Demise's curse, and made someone else in the same game the bearer of the curse (maybe a king or queen of Hyrule)

[@FierceDIO]

My head canon is that BotW and TotK are on a 4th timeline and the whole events with Ganondorf and Rauru happen in parallel to OoT. So that Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf as the other games but not really, more of an alternate version than a reincarnation.

[@bigangenbygang]

One of the biggest details I never hear people talk about with the Wind Waker timeline: Wind Waker Link is NOT the Hero's Spirit. The Fallen Timeline isn't either. Both of those Links are new Links entirely, with no spiritual connection to the original Hero's Spirit that started with Skyward Sword Link. The Fallen Timeline is a new one created by the gods as far as I can tell, made to be different than the original. Wind Waker's timeline is not like the Fallen one though. He's unironically just a random kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and chooses to more or less force the gods to recognize him as a worthy successor through sheer force of will. That's why towards the end, Ganondorf seems to test him. He's making sure this new random kid actually stacks up to the old Hero before he'll respect him. And thanks to him pulling off what the original hero couldn't in that timeline, he gets to replace him and be the one who keeps coming back. Also Wind Waker Ganondorf *could* be speaking truthfully. You have to remember that Demise specifically says that someone will "inherit" his anger. You can't inherit something that is yours. Ganondorf is a separate being, who is influenced by this all consuming hatred that he has inherited. It is completely plausible that early on in his life, that manifested as a righteous fury before then being corrupted as he gained more power. By the time Wind Waker's events are taking place, he seems to have conquered that hatred, as he seems to have almost noble goals. He even tries his best not to harm Link or Zelda before his mental snap after his hopes are ripped away by the King. There's no real evidence that he wanted more than to simply bring Hyrule back, to undo the harm he'd done. But then that is ruined and it angers him so much that Demise's hate takes back over. That's my take on his characterization in that game, anyways.

[@Cykk0]

somehow i forgot that the old man sage in ocarina was called rauru as well

[@theknightikins9397]

I really like how tears of the kingdom made him just a flat out villain. I guess you could argue he started good and fought for his people, but they quickly realize that he’s just evil. It’s refreshing to see a villain who is just a villain who needs to be destroyed.

[@poenpotzu2865]

Just kinda wish he has more scenes and build up

[@billyboleson2830]

People just now realizing that Zelda lore isnt as complex as they want it to be

[@thegreatgoobert5847]

I think you mean poorly written. Zelda lore is insanely complex, but none of it makes any fucking sense.

[@billyboleson2830]

@@thegreatgoobert5847 almost as if there’s someone at Nintendo who’s infamous for not caring about story

[@thegreatgoobert5847]

@@billyboleson2830 yeah but they didn't even do the bare minimum for this game. I'm okay If every zelda game isn't consistent with each other, it's a 30 year old franchise. But tears of the kingdom cant even be consistent with the game its a direct sequel to.

[@co0ki3M0NstAr]

"inevitably be defeated by a time-traveling war-orphan who grew up in a forest and was raised by literal tree" The best link description I've heard in my 33 years LMAO thanks that caught me SO off guard 😂😂😂

[@slateoffate9812]

In Wind Waker, Ganondorf said he just wanted the winds of prosperity for the Gerudo, but in Ocarina of Time he sure has a funny way of showing. The Gerudo aren't better off, they're mind controlled for goodness sake! Ganondorf didn't bring about any positive change, all he did was drag everyone else into the cyclone of suffering.

[@elpopman2055]

True but you have to understand that this Ganondorf Had Over A century to live with his failures and regrets. One Can Say That the final battle of Wind Waker was simply Ganondorf own variant of suicide because The Triforce Wish is Absolute.. So he knows killing link and tetra is impossible because The Triforce Gave Them Plot armor. The two of them are destined to find New Land and Create New Hyrule.

[@blackbloom8552]

Here hwo i would explain this. Ganondorf in ocarina of time is someone who made a choice to sacrifice everything and everyone to gain power and conquer hyrule. WInd waker Ganondorf is a man who had to live through the consequences of that choice.

[@tarnw3301]

I never got the impression he wanted Hyrule for the Gerudo. He wanted Hyrule for himself.

[@doubleflores8350]

@@blackbloom8552 I do like how Wind Waker shows Ganondorf being humbled by his experience at sea. It shows a different type of villain we don’t see often in games.

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

What he actually says is "I coveted that wind I suppose" You CAN interpret that as him wanting it for his people, but all that he says is that he desired it personally.

[@IamSupreme333]

I’m a simple man… I see Ganondorf, I click.

[@SonicGirl4Ever]

This was an amazing character/lore analysis. Definitely gained a subscriber! Looking forward to your ToTK Ganondorf video-

[@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad]

Ganondorf is literally the reincarnation of a dark god’s hatred. He exists to hate and spread misery and destruction.

[@Wiki1184]

I always find it funny when people try to justify or say a character is misunderstood and the character is like “Doombringer the child genocider”. Like nah man, he’s just evil.

[@bennycaustic5102]

There is no redeeming Ganondorf. He is a power hungry maniac who wants to fight and rule a kingdom of misery and evil. It's why he's chosen by the Triforce. Zelda is always wise and magical, Link is always courageous and adventurous, and Ganondorf is always violent and insane.

[@Dr._Nicolas]

this is my favorite timeline read, you did an excellent job explaining the scenarios after

[@4wheal]

The funny thing is that even in Wind Waker he never actually says he wanted the land of Hyrule for his people benefit all he talks about is his own desires and jealous. This is the ture reason why he never actually brought the gerudo our of the desert because he never truly cared about helping them.

[@bluicarys732]

Ganon and Zelda always seem to be at least somewhat aware of the reoccurring events. Link just gets dropped in while hes trying to enjoy breakfast or something

[@bluicarys732]

He also acknowledged that the great sword is the only thing that can harm evil, him, which to me seems like he is very aware of what side he is on from the get go.