Demon King Ganondorf - A Deconstruction of Villainy

I think Ganondorf in Tears of the Kingdom is both one of the best and worst written villains in the Legend of Zelda franchise.

[@mercury2157]

Gotta love how Ganondorf absolutely annihilates a woman's spine and waits until the witness starts having an emotional breakdown to start laughing

[@GanondorfsWife]

His face cracked me the hell up the first time LOL

[@tysondennis1016]

And making his new funniest facial expression. Like, he turns into a GMod character with his facial animations turned up to 500%.

[@diseasedwombat5611]

It just shows how twisted he is. He’s not taking over Hyrule to feed his people, he’s not doing it out of spite, and he’s not doing it to regain his land. He’s doing it out of pure malice. He wants to see people suffer, he revels in their grief, so he attacks Hyrule for seemingly no reason.

[@matthewl3002]

His face looked like a GMod animation

[@NotBorno]

that laugh was hilarious as well as creepy

[@bennycaustic5102]

I like how the more powerful Ganondorf gets, the more closely he starts to resemble Demise, which is his pure godly form.

[@jonathanflanagan1504]

It also retroactively gives parallels how all those beast Ganon forms look the way they do, since this game says that they cannot be true incarnations of Demise, rather smaller incarnations of THIS Ganondorf as his power leaks very slowly out of Rauru's seal. When they take on their strongest forms to take on Link, they resemble inhuman monsters (sorta like how the Imprisoned was an inhuman monster hmm?). But when this Ganondorf claims a secret stone and becomes the demon king, he more closely resembles Demise' true form than any Ganon ever did.

[@juice2307]

I like that thought. In many ways every other Ganon can be summed up as an unwitting servant of this Ganondorf. His monsters are represented as pigs, just like every other Ganondorf when they become Ganon. If they are incarnations of Ganondorf’s malice, it makes sense that they cannot aspire to the same power he has, but show their true form as imitators given birth from his own hatred.

[@UryIsReal]

@@juice2307 Still weaker than Ganon from ALTTP. As you can't even scratch that iteration of Ganon AT ALL till you get the Golden Sword which is the Master Sword upgraded TWICE. While this Ganon is still somewhat vulnerable to the Master Sword as was Demise. Both are weaker to Ganon when he obtained the entirety of the Golden Power in A Link to the Past.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

I’d argue only vaguely similar. Demise looks different. Ganondorf in his demonic form looks straight up like a classical Oni. Ganondorf is supposed to be someone with his own agenda.

[@aurockson2696]

@@UryIsRealbut he was also in his weakest form when the sword scratched him at the beginning.

[@tysondennis1016]

Ganondorf killed Queen Sonia with a Warlock Punch. Here's the evidence: Exhibit A: We do not see the murder weapon. It could be that there was no murder weapon in the first place. Exhibit B: There is no blood. Sure, it could be censorship, but it could also be that the damage was completely internal, and any bruising was hidden by Sonia's clothes. Exhibit C: In Smash, Ganondorf's attacks are very powerful, but they are very slow as a drawback. He used Phantom Ganon to distract Zelda and Sonia so he could deliver the killing blow. Exhibit D: Have you seen how built Ganondorf is, at least when he's hydrated? Him killing someone with just one unarmed blow is within the realm of possibility. In conclusion, Ganondorf's neutral B was used to kill Sonia.

[@CringeGamingOG]

💀

[@riccardoflorio2800]

Now the question is, did he do it straight forward or with the turning animation?

[@wutmagna7222]

Spinal disalignment

[@sentientmustache8360]

Exhibit E: Sonnia’s gravestone reads “Doriyah’d to death”

[@_lensi_4169]

Honestly, that's the greatest comment i've ever seen

[@kRx1203]

I love the Ganondorf boss fight because of the meta levels of its design. The fact that his health bar breaks the established limit, the fact that he can do a perfect dodge of your attack, just like you can, the fact that much like he did at the start of the game, he's able to destroy your heart containers. Just time and time again using game mechanics to establish that he's on a completely different level than anything else you faced so far.

[@Pro720HyperMaster720]

You just nailed explaining why I loved so much that battle (and the courageous that want a harder encounter, try going there without defeating any bosses, you would be like facing a 14 phase encounter starting counting from the army of Bokobkins and ending with Draconified Ganondorf)

[@realperson4993]

Performing a dodge and attempting to flurry rush just to see him do the same, but then dodging THAT and finally landing a barrage of hits is an amazing adaptation of the goofy but still engaging tendency for Zelda bosses to play tennis with you

[@KnucklesAndBig]

Bro the first time he Flurry Rushed me I felt true fear lol, I was like "This man really hit me with my own technique!"

[@BlueSparxLPs]

@@realperson4993 The classic tennis is still a thing too. You can bat his dark energy balls that remove hearts back at him.

[@daniel8181]

When he permanently removed my hearts I shit.

[@TheAwesomePieGuy]

Quick thing about the health bar - it’s a subversion of your expectations where you’re only expecting a normal health bar amount. The second it keeps going you realize “oh shit, this guy is different from literally every boss I’ve fought up to this point” as well as the subtle horror of “this ui I’ve seen the whole game suddenly became foreign”

[@crakhaed]

Sanity effect

[@notakirakarakaza2118]

They should still have centered it though, the way it is in game right now just looks kinda goofy

[@TheAwesomePieGuy]

@@notakirakarakaza2118 true when the health bar stops growing it’d be nice for to be centered after the effect has worn off

[@CarlosSaulRodriguezA]

@@notakirakarakaza2118 cause it's also a meme. "why do i hear boss music?", "from where did that health bar comes?" and "man... now everyone is a try-hard souls fan"... pick the one you like the most, and I agree with goofy... but hell did it work...

[@bluebow5014]

ABSOLUTELY

[@jimboanimations4041]

I think Ganondorf was somewhat hurt by the game's english translation. In other versions of the game, Ganondorf wanted to destroy Hyrule out of a hatred for the Zonai. To him, the Zonai had made the world weak with their peaceful and supposedly arrogant rule. Ganondorf's goal is not just to *have* power, but to make such power be something people value and fight for again. Of course I could be wrong, but that is what I gathered from some various discourse about the game elsewhere.

[@TheGalaxyWings]

So basically fascism This makes my political tier list of zelda characters so much easier

[@jimboanimations4041]

@@TheGalaxyWings Some sort of Social Darwinism, at least. Either way, it is certainly enough of a motivation for this guy.

[@stwbmc98]

The fact that NoA keeps making choices that make shallower characters is really disappointing

[@cato3277]

It sucks whenever NoA translates because when you view it through the lens of the original translation, it still makes sense but it’s butchered so badly. I could tell Ganondorf has some grudge against the Zonai, and nothing in the game’s English writing tied the threads together between his hatred for peaceful cowards and Rauru’s arrogance.

[@JacobPDeIiNoNi]

Oh that makes way more sense. Bits and pieces of that got through the English translation (that explains why in “A show of fealty” he talks to rauru about the zonai in such a hateful threatening way, why after killing Sonia he says she is “the first victim of your arrogance” and why before his final boss fight he talks about weak, peace-loving fools) but that definitely didn’t all come together

[@WarriorVirtue]

19:35 To be fair, this has actually been addressed. In A Link Between Worlds, Lorule, an alternate version of Hyrule, wished to get rid of their Triforce to end the constant wars that were fought over it. However, it turned out that Lorule's life force was directly tied to the Triforce so getting rid of it doomed their world.

[@Hue_alwat]

THANK YOU

[@volnartheunforgiving3952]

I was about to say the exact same thing. It's pretty established that holy artifacts or at least the triforce are integral parts of the whole world that must be preserved

[@chrisbennett113]

came to say this 😂

[@mjc0961]

@@volnartheunforgiving3952 Nothing is really established. In The Wind Waker, the king wishes away the Triforce and everything is fine. They went on to make two sequels. Their world isn't dying, their world wasn't doomed. They're doing fine, their world is doing fine, they even found new land and founded a new kingdom. Even the destiny of repeating fate, of demons and heroes continues. All this despite the absence of the Triforce. The only thing that's established is that nothing is established. Every game is at the whim of what the writers feel like at the time.

[@randomancrossoverfan]

@@mjc0961 He didn't wish away the triforce, he wished away the kingdom of hyrule.

[@azuquirtle]

I just love how Ganondorf is so expressive in this game. Every emotion is shown clearly on his face, every thought is expressed outwardly. You might expect a villain like Ganondorf to be cold and unfeeling, but he ends up the complete opposite. He is overconfident, cocky, and as Rauru says, prideful and smug. He believes 100% that he had won the second he obtained his secret stone. When he murders Sonia and steals her stone, he doesn't stop and reflect, and he doesn't go straight into his plan either. He just gets this massive shit-eating grin and starts laughing in Zelda's face. When he reawakens and destroys the master sword, he is completely confused. Any other villain might just shrug it off as Link being weak and continue on with their plans, but Ganondorf straight up asks Link if that was all he could do. He raises his eyebrow (despite having no skin) and wonders if this is some kind of trick or not, and makes his thought process very clear. He is not afraid to show his emotions and thought process to his enemies, because he does not see a scenario where he is defeated. In the middle of his battle with Rauru and the sages, he literally turns his back on them, not believing they pose any threat. And, when Rauru ultimately capitalises on this mistake and seals him, Ganondorf does not care. He does not view this as a loss and makes it clear to them that he thinks such. Every time he feels a plan of his as worked, he gets this smirk on his face, even if it isn't really an appropriate time, for example when he kneels before Rauru or is just about to fight Link. Throughout his fight with Link, he taunts him every time he messes up and gets hit. Every time he shows up on screen, I'd get this big smile on my face, because he's just so delightfully evil.

[@mercury2157]

TOTK Ganondorf is OoT/TP Ganondorf's smugness kicked up to 11 and it's fucking hilarious. He's so far up his own ass that he thinks defeat is literally impossible, challenges Link to what appears to be an honorable battle, and consumes the forbidden gummy like a sore loser once he loses both in his base state AND in his Demise Jr. state.

[@rafaelc.c.]

His meme face is so funny. He's cool and his design is wonderful, but he was so let down by the story. And the flashbacks don't add much new to the story. Great final boss fights, unlike the other boss fights in this game. It isn't precisely a great combat or much complex, but it feels GREAT.

[@tableswithoutchairs1168]

And I think it’s phase 2 in the final battle he does the “come here” with his fingers

[@mercury2157]

@tableswithoutchairs1168 it's in between phase 2 and 3, after he takes out the sages

[@motherfuckingenterprises7436]

That's why I hate the fact that we don't see more of him! I want more Ganondorf being a total smug ass or plain terrifying. Yeah, more complex motivations are good and all, but you will never replace an enjoyably, pure evil bad guy.

[@WarlockJacque]

I feel like the reason Ganon may appear… “shallow” in this game, is because writers weren’t banking on stuffing the entirety of him into the game, because, really, at this point that is… impossible. He transcends a singular game at this point, there are 30 years of Ganondorfs and Ganondorf-related events that happened in the span of them, trying to fit ALL that Grandeur into a single game would be impossible. Besides, Ganondorf has a very clear motivation. And that is his selfishness. During that cutscene where Ganondorf confronts Link for the second time he says a very important line, that wasn’t included in the video: “All these peace-loving WEAKLINGS running rampant…” As was stated in this very review - Ganondorf only respects raw power. And the world? The world he lives in DOESN’T. Would that not be hell on earth for someone like him? No Power, no one WORTHY to face him, soft weakling who’s hands never touched a weapon populate this realm, so Ganon’s overarching goal is to… fix the problem. In his eyes - the world is miserable, so he plans on making it stronger. And the easiest way he sees is by forcing everyone under his tyrannical rule.

[@DundG]

But in the end his respect for strength is a convenient lie. He only respects the strength so he can test his own strength. He hated Rauru, despite wielding unbelievable power. And most importantly he did not accept defeat by Link. Link PROVED to be stronger than him, and instead of respecting his might, he rather goes nuclear to take Link with him. Ganondorf only cares about him dominating everyone else and hates compassion, which he calls weakness.

[@tito00725]

@@DundG He hated Rauru 'cause he says that he was not using the full force of that power he possessed, so again lining to the side of seeing him as weak for it.

[@UltimateTobi]

The English localization left a bit of personalization out for Ganondorf, while in the original Japanese, it goes into more detail in terms of motivation and characterization.

[@Sango-po5pi]

Not 30 years. Totk is the first time we got to see ganondorf in 17 years. He is hands down the most beloved and infamous villain in the franchise, but he doesn't actually appear all that often when you take everything into account.

[@co0ki3M0NstAr]

Well said

[@muddrox887]

Just as an FYI, yes that is how gannondorf's health bar is supposed to look at the end. It's meant to surprise you by its growing length so that it hits harder thematically. If it grew out from the center like normal, this effect would be totally lost. It's supposed to be a "Holy Shit" moment where you realize it keeps growing.

[@tohuvavohu]

Ya seemed obvious lol I remember when it happened to me and I was like lmao fuck. Pretty great design.

[@ricekrispies1917]

Yea those were my exact words when I saw that mf stretching

[@LordMetalSonic1987]

I had a similar feeling while playing The Misadventures of Tron Bonne when I got to the final boss--who has a health gauge that goes off the screen, and had me very concerned that I wasn't doing any damage. (to be fair, I was using a cheat device the first time.)

[@CrashSable]

I think it would hit harder if it morphed into 20 red hearts and about 40 yellow ones to make you question whether or not Ganondorf is the real protagonist of the game

[@SamLoser2]

I think it'd have been cool if they followed up on that by also extending the health bar to the left side of the screen, but only once you have "almost" depleted his current HP.

[@KarmicDJ]

One thing that I noticed that I haven’t seen pointed out is ganondorf catching himself from falling before turning into a dragon. His pride as a warrior doesn’t allow him to fall onto his back and rather he remains standing as to retain that pride. At least that’s what I think it’s meant to be

[@nicholaspanos1559]

It's also a sumo thing; if your back touches the ground, then you lose. Ganondorf refuses to lose.

[@mercury2157]

@nicholaspanos1559 the other Ganondorf also just straight up dies standing in Twilight Princess, as if refusing to bend knee to the hero and the princess

[@CompleteAnimation]

The coolest part of the fight against Ganondorf's dragon is that it takes place in the bright, sunny overworld, with the entire game map visible the entire time. It's the ultimate showcase of not only the new skydiving mechanics, but also of the entire world of Hyrule. If you're ever in doubt as to what you are fighting for during the fight, all you have to do is look around. You're fighting to save everything you see, and everyone who lives there.

[@MetaloYT]

That's an amazing way of looking at it dang

[@TheForsakenEagle]

And that final part with the blood moon rising and his stone shining like a beacon made me beyond hyped to stick the Master Sword right into his head. Tears of the Kingdom is hands down the game of the year!

[@kristyw89]

Can you imagine being a regular person down on the ground looking up after what you thought was a minor earthquake (when Dragondorf explodes out of the castle) to see a white dragon and a black dragon dueling in the sky with a man jumping back and forth between them like a flea?... Crazy day.

[@mercury2157]

@@kristyw89 most people can't see the dragons at all

[@CloutmasterPhluphyy]

If ya ask me, every part of that fight was the coolest. It was so beautiful

[@EdgyPuer]

Would have been nice if when Ganondorf uplifted the whole Castle 6 or so of his own memory scenes where also scattered through the world, would have been a nice way to get more info on him, and more reason to explore the world.

[@EZ_roni0413]

That is actually a magnificent idea

[@mjc0961]

That's a fantastic idea

[@danielmontero9953]

Better yet, leave the Dragon Tears for Zelda on the overworld surface and give the player MORE to do in the Depth and provide the memories for Ganondorf there.

[@randomforester_462]

@@danielmontero9953 This all the way. We know next to nothing about that magnificent bastard.

[@hatti...]

That's such a cool idea. Being in the depths would make the most sense for them as well. Having geoglyphs in the depths wouldn't really work out but they could be represented by some other landmark. Maybe they're guarded by a phantom ganon or some other enemy. I think it would make sense for them to be dangerous to obtain in contrast to there being no danger chasing Zelda's story.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

I think it makes sense that this Ganondorf is the way it is. As much as people like Wind Waker Ganondorf, they seem to forget something. This Ganondorf needed at least a century of being imprisoned under water and nothing better to do than poking for holes in his prison until he even started to ask himself: "Why was i doing this again?" And even then all he wanted is basically undo the flooding to return the world he knew and start conquering again. A century of reflection and he learned nothing from it. And TotK Ganondorf is a completely new Ganondorf, who slept 10000 years over, with no reflecting on his part and basically turning into Demise again. Because Ganon is irredeemable. He is what he always was meant to be. A reincarnation of Demise, the god of monsters. The drive to return the world to primordial chaos is always instilled in Ganon. Even his lorulian counterpart, Yuga, wanted to resurrect and fuse with the boar demon Ganon, not his human counterpart, cause he saw Ganon as the "most beautiful being". They are at their very core drawn to the primordial. This is why Ganon never changes. He is focused on the past, whether he is aware of it or not. He will forever be more demon, more beast than man. That he is reborn as a Gerudo, a race of proud warriors and thieves and not for example a Goron, who are friendly to the core unless something bad happens to them, plays into this. 19:45 The issue of "Lets not have this allmighty artifact" was actually addressed in A Link Between Worlds. Lorule, that games version of the dark world has it at the heart of its backstory, that thanks to all the fighting over it, the Lorulian royal family decided to completely destroy their version of the Triforce (somehow) and their land went to waste. In fact the events of A Link Between Worlds play out due to Yuga convincing a desperate Hilda (Lorules Zelda) to go to Hyrule and take their Triforce to replace the broken one. As much, as LotZ shakes up its formula with the installments, Link, Zelda and Ganon are the constants of the series. The courageous hero, the wise princess and the power-hungry malign beast. Tears of the Kingdom plays this dynamic up to eleven with all three characters. Just my two cents added here.

[@Nalisification]

I'd imagine all you need to destroy the triforce is the triforce. After all thats how they restored the lorulian triforce.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@Nalisification Yeah, you could also argue that the Secret Stones in TotK are reshaped Triforce Shards since they function similarly.

[@TheSSBBfan666]

nicely put, while Ganondorf reflecting in WW might paint him as having once noble motives, we never actually know if he ever helped the Gerudo as he was always seeking out power for his own ends and the tribe suffered for it. Plus he immedately flips out when he gets the Triforce taken from him in WW and tries to take out Link and Zelda despite earlier saying he would have let them go. He will say and act however he needs to achieve his goals no matter who he hurts.

[@xana3961]

Personally, I didn't want him to be redeemable, instead I just wanted him to have a more human motivator. Wind Waker ganondorf had a humanization that turned Ganondorf from just a mere warlord into a warning. Beware your ambition, essentially. While Ganondorf was *already* a giant warning about keeping your ambitions in check (else you become a mindless beast like he did) Wind Waker made it more plausible and reasonable why he became that warlord in the first place. Personally, I never wanted him to be "redeemable." I wanted to see that he was a mortal like any other... once. Thats the part that made him interesting.

[@KingofAwesomness14]

@@xana3961 true but i think the twilight princess does this best, especially in the manga for its not a message with just ganondorf, but midna, link and everyone else. The power will always be a force that can destroy if its allowed. but that's the thing, allowed. Ganondorf allows the idea of Demise to destroy him. If he wanted, he could wish that influence away, he chooses not to and for that he must, well as twilight manga link puts it. "For those i love to prosper, i cannot allow you to live." one of favorite lines in hte manga.

[@calamitousenigma9052]

Unfortunately, many of the issues regarding motivation or lack thereof are mainly due to the localization, because Ganondorf's motive was butchered by the English dub. In languages other than English, including the original Japanese, Ganondorf is motivated by a desire to reshape the world to bring back a virtue he believes has vanished - courage. Ganondorf is established to despise the Zonai as arrogant beings who, like the people they rule over in Hyrule, hide their spineless cowardice behind a desire for peace. Ganondorf furthermore believes that due to the Zonai's influence, the virtue of courage has disappeared from the world, and what he truly wants, aside from power, is to create what he thinks is an ideal world. The world Ganondorf wants is one where power and courage are the only currency. One where the sole thing that matters is your power with which to subjugate others, and the courage to engage in combat. Because to Ganondorf, and to his progenitor Demise (at least in Japanese), the two find relief and joy in unleashing their power to dominate and destroy others. This is a world where he, the almighty, all-powerful, and indomitable Demon King, can rule for eternity, and one that will constantly provide him worthy opponents for him to unleash his might against in battle. The weak perish, and the strong will live long enough to give Ganondorf a fight worth his time. The most we get of this in English is him talking about Rauru squandering the godlike power of the stones, his lines about "weak, peace-loving cowards," and "I will reshape this world as it was meant to be," unfortunately. Languages like Italian, French, Spanish, etc. all got this motivation translated into their dubs from the original Japanese, but English strangely did not.

[@WarriorVirtue]

They did the same thing in BotW. Revali's character was completely ruined.

[@Dado_nastro]

Why do the English dub for botw and totk remove/ change everything?

[@calamitousenigma9052]

@@WarriorVirtue Ehh, I wouldn't say *ruined*. Not like Ganondorf, anyway. They changed him, but Revali is still meaningful no matter the language. Japanese Revali is a prideful warrior who wants a rival so that they can inspire personal growth and improvement in each other. English Revali is an insecure but hardworking warrior who hides his self-doubt beneath an arrogant and abrasive front. Ganondorf just had stuff removed without anything being *added*.

[@AVGNEmpire]

So he's basically part sayian here, he only wants a good fight.

[@BlazingSteel]

The closest we get to that is Ganondorf's line of "Do you see the potential that you squandered?"

[@Nortrodamas]

In the Japanese dub Ganondorf's motivation is "Might makes right and those who have great power should use it to conquer others."

[@kikosawa]

His motivation is one of the cave people

[@DundG]

But he has this philosophy because he lacks any compassion. He enjoys inflicting suffering to others and hates Rauru for "wasting" this power.

[@mercury2157]

Ganondorf and Senator Armstrong would probably be great buddies

[@silvereyes242]

Sorry but that’s still a weak, shitty motivation for a main villain. Far from a compelling trait to have.

[@speedude0164]

He believes the world should be ruled by those that have the power to claim it for themselves, largely because due to his birthright as king of the Gerudo, dark power and exceptional skill in combat, that kind of world is one he would naturally thrive in. Rauru's world is focused on peace and community, where everyone helps each other to build a great society where everyone can thrive, and a man as selfish as Ganondorf could never thrive in a world like that.

[@mr.gishere844]

Totk ganondorf wierdly seems to not have a motivation in the english translation. However in japanese, Ganondorf talks about how the world lost it's original courage, and that he intends to bring the world to it's ancient glory, probably before the Zonai came. Since in the cutscene where he is swearing loyalty to Rauru, he cleary shows that he hates their spieces and their arrogance, since they descend from the gods. Sad that most of this wasn't kept in the english translation.

[@Feu_Ghost]

I'm really happy that it was keep in the french translation honnestly

[@Dado_nastro]

He also says this in italian

[@faceless_man566]

in a sense then, wouldn't he be looking for link then?

[@elchewbacco]

Make hyrule great again

[@cavemanbuddyolpal]

Wow that makes him way less boring because maybe I’m just dense but the cutscene before the fight with demon King ganondorf just made him seem one dimensionally evil talking about how light bad dark good was just boring to me, hearing atleast some motivation makes him way less bland to me

[@Kayachlata]

Fun fact: Twinrova do appear in the cutscene where Ganon kneels before the king, the two Gerudo ladies next to him have the names Kotake and Koume etched on their shoulder plates! It's very easy to miss, but it's very interesting how young Twinrova are portrayed.

[@itsJoshWashington]

That's because it proves that this is not a retcon of ocarina of time or the "fallen timeline", but a retcon of the origin story of Ganondorf lol. It is a lore correction to skyward swords broken lore (which requires 3 books and a multitude of retcons to work).

[@johnsantos507]

Really!?!😱 Where is Twinrova?

[@Jenna_Talia]

They're sorcerers, aren't they depicted with young appearances due to magic?

[@gatst7680]

@@itsJoshWashington Uh... no? The Temple of Time is still on the Great Plateau, and there's still a multitude of references to previous games, Skyward Sword in particular.

[@randomancrossoverfan]

@@itsJoshWashington You're high bro.

[@gabrielmauger7608]

I feel like the main strenght of what makes Ganondorf great in this game is the legacy behind him. This isn't some game from a completely new franchise starring a villain we have never heard about. Even people that have never played a Zelda game before have probably heard of Ganondorf, and it feels like the writers tried to (and in my opinion, succeeded) in riding the hype that comes with the mere name of the character. This is the grand, all powerful, bombastic villain an Ocarina of time fan from 1998 would dream up of seeing. This ganondorf thus doesn't try to make himself different from the other ones and instead delivers on the expectations set by them.

[@voltron77]

I would actually love to see a game where ganondorf breaks from the curse and helps you to fight Demise.

[@DeadpoolX9]

@@voltron77 my personal fantasy is a Link born to the Gerudo

[@randomancrossoverfan]

@@voltron77 Play wind waker.

[@pokemonmaster1505]

​@@voltron77 the main issue that pops up whenever someone says they want Ganondorf to "break free from the curse" is that there isn't actually any curse. The Bringer of Demise's "curse" in Japanese essentially boils down to simply warning Zelda and Link that even if good will always win, evil will never truly be defeated. Ganondorf isn't forced into his role by some mystic force, he is just always raised in an environment that cultivates him into a evil person. However, that's not to say that a good guy Ganondorf is impossible or that I don't want one, I'm just pointing out that Ganondorf isn't cursed to be the bad guy, he's always evil because of his own choices.

[@akiranara6404]

​@@pokemonmaster1505 I would say that Demise's Curse *is* a real thing, but it's not a curse on Ganondorf. Remember what Demise says: "To you, those who bear the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... An incarnation of my hatred will rise again, dooming you to a world of blood-soaked darkness for all time!" ... OK, I don't remember exactly what he says at the end, but that's not the important part. The important part is that he's cursing _Link and Zelda,_ saying that they'll have to deal with big problems in the future. Yes, Ganondorf's evil is a product of his upbringing, not a result of him being cursed. But I think that Demise's curse guided his life such that he would become a problem for Link and Zelda to deal with forevermore.

[@naheleshiriki5496]

Very polite of link to simply wait and let ganondorf eat the stone like it was a piece of candy.

[@jvnebugged]

💀

[@itsaIIgoodman]

To be fair in Skyward Sword if Link is too slow to do the killing blow on Demise he would patiently wait for Link to grab his sword that got stuck to the ground! I guess he's just repaying a favor from another lifetime

[@Zebocute]

When i beat TotK, the line that stood out to me was when Ganondorf said that he would rule because that is what a king must do. This makes it seem as if he is acting out of some twisted form of duty, conquering the world because he's king and ruling is what kings have to do.

[@Crichjo32]

That makes him similar to Stannis from Got. He feels like he must be king because it's his duty, and feels it is what must be done. But this Ganondorf also talks about hating light and loving darkness, so he is somewhat inconsistent in his motivation.

[@Zebocute]

@@Crichjo32 I don't see him as inconsistent. As king, it is his duty to rule over all, but it doesn't matter to him how as long as he does rule. Oppression, fear, darkness, and the immortal power he gained from the secret stone are simply the best way to rule in his eyes. He does not seem to care what kind of kingdom he rules, whether it's that of Gerudo, Hylians, or monsters. He only cares about securing enough power to ensure his rule is eternal.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

Kings also don’t die on their knees. They die standing. I can’t help but think back to Ganondorf’s death in TP. As evil as he is, as terrible as he is, he died standing. I think he does have the traits of a leader, a king, just not the king everyone wants or would agree with. When Ganondorf came close to falling flat on his back, he just stops short of it happening. He’s too stubborn to die without serious effort.

[@PixelHeroViish]

And not just that, he's the DEMON King, the most brutal and power hungry creature possible, having to rule one place isn't enough, if he must rule then EVERYTHING must bow to his will, lest witness his might as the Demon King

[@rexxusprimus]

In my personal opinion, I don't believe Ganondorf really needs to be a complex villain. Sometimes you just need a bad guy. Something simple. Something fun to fight against. I agree that we need MORE of him, but I honestly think it's fine that we can't relate to him. If anything, I'd really love to see more of the Gerudo and their relationship to him. Give us their perspective on this man. It easy to believe that he'd get a following as the only man to be born to their entire race. Let us see that turmoil as he's revealed to be an absolute monster. TL;DR Keep him evil. Expand the Gerudo!

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

Yes this exactly. You can give him more motivation but in the end his motives are always driven by greed and power.

[@Jenna_Talia]

Also it's best to be cautious with motivations here cause if you make a windwaker ganondorf who genuinely wants to have his people live a better life, you run the risk of having link and zelda look like the bad guys as they're essentially trying to maintain the status quo rather than be good. It's a trap a lot of stories fall into, superhero stories especially, where a villain isn't allowed to just be a piece of shit, their struggle needs to be relatable, understandable and definitively good.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

@@Jenna_Talia On the other hand, look how prosperous Gerudo Town is. And that is in spite of being in a desert. The Gerudo were never going to flourish under the rule of a man like Ganondorf. We already have proof of this in Ocarina of Time. He never cared about bettering his people, not truly, just him.

[@DundG]

Yes! Him being evil due to lack of any sympathy and lust for power is reason enough. There are people like him in real life. Psychopaths, notorious liars that lack any sense of fear or sympathy and are capable of the most appaling deeds humans ever witnessed!

[@BrohamLincolnpanta-ct4ld]

100% agreed. I don't get why people are all of the sudden upset that he isn't a deep villain, he has always just been a really bad person that wants to rule the world

[@riflezen6049]

I'm curious why you didn't go over Ganondorf's dialogue to Rauru after becoming the Demon King, where he calls him arrogant and says that he had squandered some kind of potential. I think Ganondorf did have a proper motivation in Tears of the Kingdom, but it got lost in translation. Which, considering it's probably the same team that localization Breath of the Wild, doesn't surprise me, as that localization also watered down a few characters- most notably, Link and Revali.

[@BrohamLincolnpanta-ct4ld]

I think that Ganondorf thought that Rauru was soft. Ganondorfs acts as a ruler in past games like Oot are pretty harsh, so he thinks that a ruler should be iron fisted and cruel

[@ThePako7777]

I think we should stop blaming the translation for lack of characterization, really. You'd find the same issue regardless of the lenguage which you play the game with

[@TheActualMrLink]

@@BrohamLincolnpanta-ct4ldwhen you grow up in a region as harsh and unforgiving as the desert…

[@gianluco]

​@@ThePako7777nope, in almost every non-english version, including the original, Ganondorf has a clear goal and motivation

[@ThePako7777]

@@gianluco I'm not an English speaker so I have played in a language other than English (Spanish in my case, where supposedly it is made more clear, which is not really), and the goal and motivation is still luckluster and requires you to manage to get something out of it. I have seen videos and transciption from other languages written by different people. It's still insufficient and not well developed or even stated.

[@phantom99991]

I'd like to point out that Twinrova actually do appear in the game. During the memory where Ganondorf falsely professes his loyalty to Rauru, the two gerudo warriors directly behind him are green-skinned and have the names Koume and Kotake written on their shoulder band things. It's not much, but they ARE present.

[@yeah_definitely]

Demise may be dethroned on my list of favorite demise reincarnations for the mummified form from the opening

[@TwiggyShei]

I know right? He looks so cool while mummified.

[@shadow12k]

Dude straight up talks shit about the mechanics 😂

[@yeah_definitely]

@@shadow12k ?

[@pancakes8670]

@@shadow12k Was that the scene in the Castle where he's like "How did you survive Link, was it that arm?"

[@mrtree1368]

Demis isn't a reincarnation he is the original

[@kiranaun9593]

The way Ganondorf interacts with your hearts in the final boss fight might be based on how he destroys the master sword- first enveloping it and infecting it from within, and then shattering it in its weakened state with a powerful strike. I could be reading too much into this, but this is also how he gets his stone: infiltrating the royal family and getting close to them by swearing fealty and using Phantom Ganon, and then swiftly taking the stone by killing Sonia in a single punch. This method of destruction seems to represent his character and how he operates as a villain. We repeatedly see him using guerilla tactics to destroy his target both from within and without, demonstrating his tactical prowess as one of the series' most intelligent depictions of Ganondorf alongside his immense power. As a villain, I think he really feels exactly how Ganondorf should. When I first saw him swallow the secret stone to enter his final phase, I was genuinely giddy with excitement. The portrayal of his character as both a cunning saboteur and a ruthless tyrant is tied together incredibly well by his phenomenal voice acting, beautiful animation and illustration, and even the location you fight him in, seemingly a mile beneath Hyrule Castle and guarded by not only a potential gauntlet of bosses but an onslaught of enemies and a ton of rocks. I think the one-dimensional, generic nature of his character is easily made up for by the fact that he plays the hell out of it.

[@handymansam1414]

If they added cutscenes from different dragon tears after you destroy Ganon, that would be a good way to add some extra story and content.

[@marche800]

Ganondorf Tears would be interesting.

[@realNom2mooncow]

Ganondorf cutscenes (the geoglyphs) qualify as meeting him because if we actually ended up meeting with him again, I think it would've made the final fight less climactic. The exception is of course the Phantom Ganondorf fight, but that was a good fake out/wake up call that you're not even close to finishing the game, you got some stuff to do. This all hinges on the fact that the intro was so good, and that all the intermediate scenes from the memories about him are sufficient character information to tell us stuff to bide us over until our next encounter with him, which all work super well and make Ganondorf an imposing villain from offscreen. Also you mentioned the phantom zelda/ganon appearances, which work well to establish Ganondorf controlling everything from behind the scenes, mysteriously hindering everybody and misleading them with Zeldas appearance. As well, yeah, a lot of backstory is missing from the memories. That's why I think it would be cool if somebody wrote a book about it! PLEASE NINTENDO LICENSE THIS OUT AND HAVE SOMEONE WRITE A NOVEL SET IN ZONAI TIMES ABOUT THE ZONAI AND GANONDORF PLEASE

[@realNom2mooncow]

But I think that the lack of motive is a little detracting; I don't know how they could've made him as imposing while also including flushed out motivation and sympathetic reasoning for Ganondorf

[@davish7864]

Is it just me… or is this version of Ganondorf REALLY inspired by Sauron as depicted in Tolkien’s original novels this time around? Anyone? A Villain doesn’t have to be present on screen 100% of the time to have their presence felt, and this version of Ganondorf executes this quite well!

[@jimboanimations4041]

I can sorta see that, yes. Hell, they even have a similar goal of wanting to regain their full power to reshape and dominate the world.

[@riccardoflorio2800]

THAT IS WHAT I WAS THINKING! Evil dude that fakes allegiance with a king? -check Bringa the kingdom's demise from inside -check Has the ambition to conquer and cloud everything in darkness? -check Second dark lord? -check First dark lord hated the other deities with burning passion? -check

[@josuelafountaine5147]

I also kinda see some hints of Sephiroth in here. Where Sephiroth saw himself as a harbinger of the end, Ganondorf IS the harbinger of the end. The hey both wait for their heroic blonde swordsman in the center of earth reconstituting their bodies. And he rocks a katana and shit. Its like Ganondorf went to Sephiroth’s Dark Harbinger seminar lmfao

[@arlom5132]

The design of Ganondorf's eyes, and how it seems ever present in pools of malice (in BotW), and the floor masters in TotK, seems like an obvious reference to Sauron's eye in the Peter Jackson movies

[@sentientmustache8360]

⁠@@riccardoflorio2800 Killed by destroying an immensely powerful magical object? Check. Burning slit-shaped eyes? Check. Army of monsters? Check. Small team of ghosts at his service? Check. Assumes the form of a blonde, beautiful being to trick others? Check.

[@CringeGamingOG]

Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise brought about by the curse in Skyward Sword. This incarnation of Ganondorf is the most similar to Demise of any incarnation to date and he’s even given an uncanny resemblance to his physical appearance. Edit: every time- every time a comment that isn’t even remotely controversial is made it gets like 400 spergs freaking out about details and semantics. Chill out, if you wanna get technical the canon is whatever we choose because the amount of contradictions and plot holes this game causes makes all previously set up lore irrelevant.

[@DentyOne]

Right. It may seems stupid and 'edgy' for a human to hate the light, but here we're talking about... well... basically Satan. He's a demon, the source of all monsters. He hates the light because he can't flourish within it.

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

He's not a reincarnation but an incarnation of demise hatred and malice. They are not the same thing.

[@mr.e8566]

@@YOGI-kb9tg Hyrule Historia confirmed he's Demise's reincarnation

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

@@mr.e8566 hmm yes and skyward sword highlights the word incarnation. I'm going to trust the game and not a book that gets retconned every time they make a new game.

[@kitchengun1175]

the idea of a stone that enhances Ganondorf's natural abilities also making him more closely resemble Demise is cool asf

[@Kioskism772]

I hope the DLC gives us more on characters like Ganondorf. Like even two or more cutscenes or "memories" where Ganondorf is in the desert talking to some Gerudo about "their" goal (when it's his) would be amazing to add as development. A man who manipulates his people and literally everyone around him. Forgive the long comment but they could also add in "twinrova" or the surrogate mothers in some way i'm sure.

[@DundG]

Some people already mentioned that the twinrovas where already in the scenes. But yeah, I would love to see more exploration of this powerhungry maniac.

[@eagleleft]

I hope we get an age of ganondorf or age of sages Hyrule Warriors like with Breath of the Wild except this time its the actual prequel without any of this time travel nonsense

[@eagleleft]

It would be so cool and give character and story to Ganondorf and maybe we play some of the fights from his perspective. Ooooo. or maybe we play both sides equally leading to the final battle. I would love that

[@sinteleon]

@@DundG Also mentioned on the gloom weapons as well.

[@herooflight7931]

I do not believe there's gonna be a DLC

[@raph3699]

I think his health bar not being in the center is to frighten the player who sees this health bar growing much more than it’s supposed to. Like a fourth wall breaking from the game to tell you that he will have a lot of health

[@bahamutskingdom]

I can easily say one of the greatest intros to a game ever. True suspense, and action. Not knowing what the hell was about to happen. Damn worth every second of viewing it.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

Also pretty cool way to include gameplay into it. To show the stakes of how fast he reduced Link’s health and stamina to the bare minimum and took his arm.

[@BeepYoutube]

Ganondorf in this is kind of paradoxical. His biggest flaw is that he's too good. The good scenes are great and leave us wanting more, but there just isn't ENOUGH of him. If the good scenes were mediocre, we wouldn't want more. The snippets we do get of Ganondorf are so good, but they're equally so sparse.

[@ellentaylor6883]

I know, I just want a dlc or age of calamity like game so we can see more of him.

[@brendanrisney2449]

It's a good issue to have. Always leave your audience wanting more, instead of the opposite.

[@christopherbare9277]

The health bar bit from the final fight was actually a great touch. By making the bar continue to grow, it's making a meta commentary on Ganondorf's power, basically saying, "Yo, this guy is stronger than the game is even designed to handle." It looks like a glitch on pirpose, as though Ganondorf has powered up past what a boss is supposed to be able to accomplish. Plus, from a cinematic perspective, it draws out the tension of the moment as the player is left wondering just how far it's going to go. More games need to break the fourth wall like this.

[@hyper9984]

One thing I would've liked is for the Sage of Lightning to have a bit more backstory in relation to her ties with the Gerudo and Ganondorf. Most likely, after the Gerudo were estranged from Ganondorf due to him becoming absolutely insane and dangerous, she became the Gerudo chief, but that doesn't really explain where she came from while Ganondorf was still chief.

[@InSpades0]

It’s been a very long time since I’ve played OOT but the sage of lightning might parallel Nabooru who was I believe ganondorfs second in command but fell out with him once she saw his turn to evil.

[@thesnipenieer2144]

The Ganondorf fight shows the most of his character, honestly. He's a powerful warrior who only respects those in a similar league, but his pride makes it so he believes he is above everyone, and when it looks like that isn't the case, he cheats his way to the top. He's a man who wants to rule the world, and justifies his powerlust as wanting to make Hyrule a place where the strong rule, and the strongest person in Hyrule is him. We see this with the fight. Despite having the Secret Stone, Ganondorf returns to hia original, Gerudo form to fight Link. He thinks Link is not worthy of facing the almighty Demon King. Except Link is. At the end of the first phase Ganondorf finally respects Link. But when Ganondorf goes Demon King, he's still toying around with Link. Ganondorf believes he is so truly above him, and cuts his power in pieces to overwhelm Link, which fails when the Sages come in. Pnase 3 is when Ganondorf realizes that, maybe, he is unmatched-- but he can't handle that. Phase 3 is where he takes Link completely seriously. Of course, by the end he's defeated, and simply cannot fathom it. So he goes the Nuclear Option, and the Gerudo known as Ganondorf ceases to exist.

[@DundG]

Truly prooves that his talk aboutbthe strong shall rule is a convenient lie. Link defeats Ganon, but instead of accepting the stronger force, he rather destroys himself to take Link with him. He can't allow anyone to be strongerbthan him, because it was always about him ruling.

[@MagicalMaster]

Everyone else has been saying to check out the other translations so that's the last I'll say of that. So I have something else to say, notice that he and Phantom Ganon use Katanas. A distinctly Japanese weapon and his Japanese, Ronin like design. If you think about that, then more of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom start to make more sense, from the goofiness of the Yiga to the differences of the two distinct types of dragons to the sheer treachery of Ganondorf. It's something that has underlined ALL of the Legend of Zelda from the beginning, and is part of the mix that makes the mythology so fascinating. Anyways, I cannot recall the name of the spirit in question, but in Eastern religions there is a type of god. One that was once possibly good and now consumed by bloodlust. And what was Ganon to his people in the past if not a god? What has he become if not consumed by bloodlust and wrath. I apologize for not having the actual name. But there's a lot more interesting just under the surface. If only the translators for Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild weren't so STUPID! Edit: Also they're supposed to be SACRED STONES not secret stones. They're not secret, they're sacred! They're magatama! Divine Foci from Asian Mythology!

[@cato3277]

He also carries a naginata and metal kanabo. They really went all out with the ronin aesthetic for him, love it. And sacred stones? I knew they were magatama but this change convinces me that NoA has no faith in their older audiences to understand subtlety. Same thing for changing Miasma to Gloom, like gloom is fine on its own but miasma carries mystical, corrupting weight.

[@jonson856]

I think by 2 types of dragons you mean the more "European dragons" and the "Asian dragons", right?

[@MagicalMaster]

@@jonson856 Actually there are two general types of Dragon or dragon like creature in Asian mythology. One is a divine being, which we see Zelda and Ganon become, if on opposite sides of the spectrum. The other are more like standard Yokai and are outright animals, which we see in the Gleeoks. Think about it, most things in Zelda match up fairly easily with Japanese mythology. The Bokoblins and Moblins and Hinocs are easy Oni in the casual, greater and Mountain types, we have benevolent minor dieties in the great fairies and friendly spirits in the regular ones. To say nothing of the Koroks and their relation to Kodama with the Great Deku Tree being a major spirit of that area. The more you learn about Japan the more sense and the more fascinating the Zelda games become. Although I am FAR from an expert.

[@jonson856]

@@MagicalMaster I thought Yokai are a bit different. More like grotesque animals. At least to me the Gleeoks seemed like the typical European mythical dragons (except that each head only had 1 eye haha).

[@MagicalMaster]

@@jonson856 As far as I understand Yokai is a sort of catch all term for supernatural creatures. Anything from an Oni which is a supernatural human with great strength to the tsukumogami which are objects that have lived a hundred years and come to life. The Master Sword qualifies as one. It's sort of like Kami is a catch all term for Gods and Spirits. There is a lot of context that's lost in translation between Eastern and Western languages. Which is why there's so much confusion.

[@fossilartstudios5878]

You know, something I never see anyone mention is that ganons crown thing is hooked into his face , you can see it pulling at his skin when the cameras up close, most likely he made this crown as a way to make sure no one could steal his secret stone and weaken him

[@luckaisgoated]

The swallowing a secret stone may reveal why the triforce is missing. As you said in the video, the secret stones are very similar to the triforce, and in this game and botw there are three dragons, representing Nayru, Farore, and Din, who created the world and created the triforce. As you stated about the triforce and secret stones being neutral, maybe these gods realized the danger of this and swallowed the three pieces of the triforce, therefore not allowing the triforce to fall in the hands of good or evil.

[@luckaisgoated]

This would explain why the triforce is missing and why the three dragons are in the game

[@dave_the_slick8584]

Its not missing. What do you think Zelda' s sealing power is?

[@luckaisgoated]

@@dave_the_slick8584 your right, but the only way zelda could have a piece is if someone tried to take the triforce, but who could have don't that?

[@4wheal]

So the gods that created the Zelda universe and multiple other dimensions and who the trifroce is only called a faction of ther power came back to eat it? Like why they are so far beyond it they have no reason to outright care this combined with the fact they have the ability to create beings of the dragons nature's with no issues just seems like they took a downgrade for no reason. Also Zelda hasn't got the trifroce the symbol has been used multiple times in the franchise to show off holy or scared power with zero connection to the actual item

[@sentientmustache8360]

I see the “Overcoming a worthy foe” line a different way, i think what Ganondorf means by this, is that he’d rather his kingdom overcome adversity (a worthy foe) rather than living in eternal peace, as he thinks it would make them weak cowards.

[@transcendentsacredcourage]

Good times make weak men, hard times make strong men.

[@Marco-fs9bs]

This is basically the base for ganondorf's motivations in non-english translations, in fact, in other languages he said that"true courage has expired long ago' bcs of the zonai who descended from the sky and brought peace to the kingdom, but ganondorf thinks that peace is just cowardly hidden behind the mask of peace, so he wanted to conquer all Hyrule so it could become a constant kingdom in war, in doing so this "true courage" would have returned in the world, with strong people living the world and basically purging all the weak(yeah, it's basically senator Armstrong but with dark magic and a stone that powers up that already strong magic a lot instead of nanomachines)

[@acgearsandarms1343]

Makes sense in a way considering the Gerudo are warriors who live in a desert. They must be strong to survive such a barren land and they are excellent warriors, no doubt. The Gerudo always have respected strength like in OoT. Such is their way. But Ganondorf takes it to another level.

[@Allyspill]

I actually predicted that Ganondorf was gonna become a dragon after learning That Zelda did and that the final battle would be dragon Vs dragon. It just makes sense gameplay wise and story wise.

[@Jenna_Talia]

Even represented by the logo, but what confused me was that the ouroboros type logo was of Zonai architecture, indicating they knew about both Zelda and Ganondorf eating their secret stones to fight one another.

[@shadex08]

To be fair about additional background for Sonia and Rauru, you can get some of it through a sidequest in translating the ancient Hyrulean texts throughout the sky in the flower shaped sky islands.

[@asherville7163]

but that doesn't negate the original point I don't want to have to go out of my way to do a side quest to learn more about the characters in the story, I want to see them in cutscenes, as that has a bigger impact that text that describes their relationship. I don't want to be TOLD what they were like, I want to actually see them as they were.

[@shadex08]

@@asherville7163 I'd tend to agree, though overall the story is always going to be a bit limited given the ancient history at hand here and open world nature of the game. Story elements being uncovered by the Zonai Survey Team makes total sense, I'd say?

[@asherville7163]

@@shadex08 just because you can't name a solution to the problem doesn't mean it can't be fixed. I am grateful we have the Zonai Survey Team, but I would prefer whatever solution there is that would enable me to see more of Rauru and Sonia (and spoilers for the ending with this one) And Mineru too... her dying at the end of the game is.... awkward. Like damn at least in Skyward Sword you can emphasize as you JUST said goodbye to Fi, but here I just had to awkwardly look the other way

[@shadex08]

@@asherville7163 Would love to see a solution for sure, this game deserved a more robust story. They probably could have done so at the cost of sub hour storm the depths speedruns?

[@asherville7163]

@@shadex08 i don't buy that at all, the game wasn't rushed, and it was stated it was done a year in advance and that they spent the year before release fine toning things I wanna wait more for dev interviews before giving an answer but I'm really curious on what the reasons the story is the way it is when it did not need to be this robust (and alongside that fire the guy who said this was darker than Majora's Mask I was led to believe there would be something as great as SHADOW TEMPLE and not having Garons on crack)

[@ultrablaster999]

Imagine if in the depths where the dragon tears are you saw Ganons view of the events, Sort of like how all of the depths is a dark mirror of hyrule up above

[@smoogieboogie1694]

Basically my thoughts. Aesthetically and in terms of the actual boss fight, I think this is the best Ganondorf. But we still haven't dethroned Wind Waker Ganondorf in terms of actual character writing. I also agree with you about the story having good ideas but lacking on details. The sages are a good example of this. They all have quick little arcs, and I did end up loving them all. I mean, they got more development than the Champions got in BotW. But it's all thin and discarded very quickly. The nonlinear story structure limits the long-term character evolution they can do. After all, how can they confidently write important and character-defining interactions between the sages if they can't guarantee the players will obtain them all before the final boss? I think the frankly ridiculous copy-pasting of the four secret stone cutscenes at the end of the four temples was the place where they could've injected more details. Instead of each sage telling the same story about the same fight, why not have each one fill in important details about that world that only they would know? The Gerudo sage could talk about Ganondorf's rise to power and the moment the Gerudo abandoned him. The Rito sage could maybe tie in to the whole song of the Stormwind Ark myth, telling about how he discovered the supposed god was a Zonai which led to him getting his secret stone but he never told his people the truth. The Goron sage could talk about the moment his people emerged from underground and started living on the surface, discussing how they joined with the kingdom of Hyrule. And the Zora sage could fill in more detail on the Zora living in both the domain and the Great Wellspring, and the moment their isolation ended and they helped Hyrule face down Ganondorf. Then Mineru's cutscene would be the one that reveals all the details of the Imprisoning War. Also, the last cutscene before the final boss got me thinking. In it, it looks like Ganondorf is sitting on some tree roots and absorbing power from them, corrupting them in the process. It kind of makes me wish the roots in this case belonged to the Great Deku Tree. We could get some lore that way about the Deku Tree being connected to all life on Hyrule, and this would be the new cause of Korok Forest's suffering which means defeating Ganondorf is what saves them. This would actually give the Koroks and the Deku Tree something to do in Tears of the Kingdom because as it is now they basically serve no purpose.

[@Joel-eo8hc]

Imagine if you got an extra four memories that were from Ganondorf's memory that appeared after defeating the four boss creatures in the different domains, it'd help flesh out Ganon's story for the game, and an extra cutscene just as the monster you defeat dies and the memory appears would make this game even better than it is. That or an interaction with Gannon after the monster dies, as if he knows you are defeating your way to him.

[@Auvisome]

It’s a return to form for me. Ganondorf really just needed to be scary, powerful and charismatic. Empathetic villains don’t necessarily make for good villains, and one-note villains don’t necessarily make for bad ones; nor has Ganondorf ever really been one aside from Windwaker. I think he serves his role well in TOTK. Especially after Calamity Ganon, who was described as this unwavering primordial evil that tormented Hyrule for 10k years, which Ganondorf is the source of, it'd be out of place and weird to then make this character empathetic and tragic. I don’t think there is any need to humanise Ganondorf or make him appear like a tragic character. There’s no going back after what he did 10k years ago, and what his Calamity brought upon Hyrule. He is evil for the sake of evil and that’s why I love him.

[@raoullupin5412]

Exactly! Many people (myself included) and many theorists for that matter fully braced for this Ganondorf to be VERY EVIL without any remorse or potential sympathetic backstory! Hell, he was sealed in a kinda dead, kinda not state for who knows how long and considering the state we find him in when the Seal finally breaks, he has NO REASON to be any form of empathetic and Sympathetic! And aside from the Localizers for the English version messing up their job royally... AGAIN may I add considering this also happened for BOTW regarding the Dark Beast Ganon fight lead in, this is the first time in over a decade AT MINIMUM the Great King of Evil has returned to us in his full, malevolent glory! The WW route for now can IMO wait since we have to get the in my opinion most awesome Ganondorf yet back in everyone's minds and out there, this is his grand return and so he needs to make a massive impression. And damn did he do that, since he pretty much took EVERYTHING from this particular Link, in fact this is probably the most personal case for the two in terms of their status as Arch-enemies as Ganondorf took EVERYTHING from Link, damned near killed him with the Great Calamity, wound up effectively taking away an arm and damn near killed in the process AGAIN and would have were it not for Rauru's intervention, forced Zelda into the corner regarding what can be described as the darkest plot twist in the series, and on Ganondorf's side, considering how many of his minions Link winds up killing on a regular basis, and how if only out of pragmatism he has to bring the Blood Moon to bring them back rather frequently likely because of the aforementioned Linky and not only potentially causing the restoration of his power to have to slow down on a regular basis but depending on however his connections to his minions or at least certain ones works, he very well could even feel the pain they feel and considering how creative people can get in this game when it comes to Bokoblin slaughter at least, there's DEFIINTELY no love lost on Ganondorf's side too!

[@mojus2890]

Even in wind waker, weren't his selfless motivations kind of empty? He says all that but he kinda just screws everyone as much and as often as he possibly can.

[@soya_kitchens]

He doesn't need to be empathetic and have a tragic backstory or whatever, and no one's really asking for that. It's just that he's barely a character at all in the game. (Almost literally, since he's only in like 4 cutscenes, and two of those are the very beginning and very end of the game) He can still be a malevolent force of nature and still have theoretical meat on his very dry, theoretical bones. But in the game he's portrayed as both this guy with a deeper personality while also going on about little baby lighties and loving darkness oh-so-much. Don't you think they could have done it a little better??

[@raoullupin5412]

@@soya_kitchens I do agree on how he should be more active in the present via proxies such as phantoms and what we see in one of those scenes you mentioned to interact with Link more and ultimately build up a rivalry with him by the time the final fight starts having gone from that horrible first impression to looking forward to battling such a strong and worthy adversary alongside potentially at the end, him also speaking regarding his last act as this being a sort of Seppuku to lean in to his Ronin/malevolent Shogun motif as Ganondorf typically has honor and he believes that on top of everything else, he can restore his honor while knowing that while he failed in trying to take over Hyrule, another goal, the restoration of the world's courage as he would put it has succeeded and effectively know that whether he is defeated or not, one of his main goals at that point has been achieved and he can be at peace should he be defeated knowing that the world's courage has returned. And remember his main goal is to buy enough time to fully recover his power, albeit do remember that the translators in English screwed up their job... AGAIN may I add and forgot to add how he believes that the world has lost it's courage/fighting spirit, how he blames the Zonai in no small part for this, and how he seeks to fix this in his own way which is what motivates his actions. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just believe that in this case, the devs inexperience with the new formula combined with how they insist on placating speed runners by letting your go after the final boss if you know where they are right away (games like Elder Scrolls which was an inspiration for the new formula do NOT have this problem, you can't go and fight Alduin right away and immediately complete the main quest after you get out of Helgen in Skyrim, this insistence on letting a VERY small portion of the player-base have this might be biting them in the ass here) which is why we don't get too much Ganondorf in the present sadly enough.

[@Auvisome]

@@soya_kitchens nah, this is good. He just shows up, fucks shit up, doesn’t elaborate. Just based.

[@brawlstar1748]

It’s probably too late for a redub unfortunately, but I’m personally fine with the story as is. They definitely did the villain better this time than in BotW. Puppet Zelda especially was a cool touch.

[@Plumpus3545]

I think the story is pretty bad but I respect your opinion.

[@alkittycat]

Finally a KZbinr talking about Ganondorf with the potential he could have had. Don't get me wrong i think he's still done well in this, especially the evil aspect. I wanted more for his character, more lore, more time seeing him being with his tribe. Still a great game for sure, just wished Ganon got more screen time

[@TROBassGuitar]

Well apparently it's there, just noa fucking ruins characters for some reason for NA audiences or English audiences in general

[@scipion3679]

10:43 Actually, Koume and Kotake are present in the game. However, they are simply an easter egg and they have no great roles in the story. They are the Gerudo in Memory 6 and 7 with golden masks, always standing close to Ganondorf. Their names are written on their clothes. Hopefully there'll be a DLC about them to at least expand further on this Ganondorf's origins and motives.

[@Velarieth]

I really like that you mentioned Link's will in the game. I feel like he's underrated with just how powerful he is just by pure drive. When Zelda swallows the stone, I couldn't help but feel like she was failing to understand Link at all. Maybe I'm off the mark here, but I think he never needed the sword to win. I wish they had given Link a bit more outward character, or let us peak into his thoughts. I like to think that, after watching memory 12 he was both broken, extremely angry, and at a loss for what to do. His entire job was to protect the princess. It was his whole reason for being. And he failed at it. The only way he was able to function was because he was carrying out her final wish. That became his life, killing Ganondorf because she wanted him to. And that's why he won. I also think you could almost write a book about Zelda. It's clear that she believes she's giving herself up, committing suicide, to get the sword back to Link. But I don't think that is what actually happens. The tears she cries can be read as her last memories and thoughts leaving her body as her consciousness is destroyed. But the game itself strongly suggests that her consciousness still exists, and she is subconsciously controlling the dragon. It's the same with Ganondorf. He sacrificed everything, but in reality he was more present in the dragon then I think anyone would have predicted. It's still a horrifyingly tragic scene. I can't get it out of my head weeks after beating the game. I hate that Nintendo did that. But it works well for the story. I just wish, after all that pathos, we got a bit more substance in the end to make up for it. Because holy crap was it sad. Even if it resolved well. I know some people hate the Deus Ex Machina at the end; I think that's just down to the same gap in storytelling that Nintendo failed with in lots of other areas of the game. They could have made the ending make more sense, but they wanted a big emotional payoff. So they didn't telegraph what was going to happen, and they don't explain what happened properly to justify it.

[@cato3277]

I didn’t really get the feeling Zelda was in control at all. Dragons in this story are amplified versions of their original stone’s holder. Zelda, the Light Dragon, exemplifies healing and comfort, the essence of protection. Ganondorf, the Demon Dragon, is sort of the Calamity Ganon again - corruption and mad power. When the light dragon saw the demon dragon, I didn’t feel that it was protecting and assisting Link because Zelda willed it to, but because that was just in its nature.

[@Niojoki]

I also didn't understand how Ganondorf knew he could swallow a sacred stone and become a dragon... like when did he get this information. It was like Nintendo thought "Y'know, the fight will be so epic, people wont think about this detail!" and I'm here shaking my head

[@Velarieth]

@@cato3277 Not "in control." Her subconscious. I'm talking about how she helped Link at the end. If her entire personality were gone I would have thought that wouldn't happen. That's all I meant. She's not conscious in the dragon. She says as much.

[@Velarieth]

@@Niojoki 100% agree. It made no sense. Or at least, they should have expanded on how the heck anyone knows anything at all about the dragon stuff.

[@AubergineMans]

​@@NiojokiMaybe he got it when he allied with the people who tell strangers said information

[@dragonslayersunpraiser9391]

The Ganon in this game reminds me a lot of Smaug from The Hobbit. His insane age and longevity, alongside his battles in the past reminded me of one of the more famous quotes from Smaug. “I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong, Thief in the Shadows!” Especially his Japanese version who, as others have pointed out, is seemingly more concerned with bringing back the old “courageous” and violent times.

[@frewtlewps1152]

It could’ve been cool if there were unlock-able cutscenes available through meeting characters, similar to how you can unlock a cutscene of Link and Zelda getting the master sword from The Great Deku Tree. Maybe Rauru could’ve shown up more in the sky to reveal things about Hyrule’s past. As for Ganondorf’s past, they could try to reveal his story in a more cryptic way, like using murals in The Depths where the Tears are.

[@TwiggyShei]

My biggest gripe is that they set up the shattered Master Sword as a plot point, but it didnt really lead to anything. I mean think about this: Ganondorf at his weakest: effortlessly shatters the Master Sword. Ganondorf at his strongest: gets defeated by the Master Sword. And what di ld we do to power the blade up or make it stronger than before? Nuthin'.

[@Dado_nastro]

Zelda did. But now it doesn't show the damage and still does 30

[@Feu_Ghost]

I don't think that charging the sword with sacred energy during 10 000 year as a lightdragon is nothing but yeah, it is pretty much mechanically the same than before

[@Marco-fs9bs]

​@@Feu_Ghost it was way more than 10000 years 10000 years before botw calamity Ganon appeard and the sheikah defeated him with the divine beats, and we know that the calamity happened after 10k years after that even, when the ancestral hero defeated it So the master sword has been on Zelda's dragon head for at least 20k years, and maybe even more, where it could fully regenerate and even powering itself up to the point that it can resist the demon king's gloom. Remember that when Zelda became a dragon, and she was talking to the sword in her last seconds of consciousness, basically the sword was almost fully healed to his pre-ganondorf state. So yeah the 20K+ years made a big difference

[@yoohoo236]

I don't really think he needs to be compelling, I like evil just to be evil. He doesn't need a reason

[@Dado_nastro]

He does have a reason tho, in every dub that isn't english

[@yoohoo236]

@@Dado_nastro elaborate

[@jamesquillen7965]

​@@yoohoo236most other dubs and localizations show that Ganondorf wants to destroy Hyrule and conquer it because he believes they've grown complacent and cowardly. He wants to bring in a rule of Courage and Power

[@yoohoo236]

@@jamesquillen7965 hmmmm... I suppose there was some in the english translation where he mocks Rauru for having power but not using it

[@jamesquillen7965]

@@yoohoo236 Yeah it's very vague in the English dub, the others are much more forward and clear

[@CrimsonMoonM]

I think the scene where Ganondorf gets the secret stone is fascinating because he almost feels like the main character in that moment. The heroes self-assuredly look down on him, so certain that they've seen right through this supposedly savage warlord, never once entertaining the thought that he were capable of using his obviously evil nature as a feint to make them jump on the first sign of betrayal while he worked on his real bid for power behind the scenes. Usually, it's the villains who grandstand and let their guard down, but in this moment, it were the heroes who made this fatal error.

[@theking8347]

The Secret Stones amplify the powers of their wielders. Since Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Demise/incarnation of his hatred, he gets a much bigger boost than anyone else, hence his Demon King form looking very similar to Demise.

[@elpopman2055]

He's not a reincarnation of demise he's an incarnation of his Hatred.

[@theking8347]

@@elpopman2055 Same thing really.

[@legofan4409]

14:55 Someone pointed out the fact that the two Gerudo behind Ganondorf have the same skincolor as him, i.e. green. All other Gerudo women we see in the game have brown colored skin. This person speculated that they are therefore Kotake and Koume, which I think is pretty neat if it's true! I wish that we had gotten to see them in the game, perhaps they will appear in the DLC along with Sooga? (No dlc confirmed ofc but fingers crossed!) Would have been really cool to fight the Twinrova witches... I could imagine Ganondorf heading back to Gerudo town where most of his subject are horrified by what they see, except the twins who remain faithful to their king. That was over 10 000 + years ago though, so they would have to explain how they're back but eh, I'd be satisfied with "magic" or the de-aging rune as an explanation.

[@F1areon]

Those two women behind him ARE Koume and Kotake; the shoulder bands they're wearing spell out their names.

[@disguisedcyclops4593]

I think that the idea that draconification completely destroys the mind is not entirely true. Zelda consumed her secret stone with the expressed purpose of helping link defeat Ganondorf. Not only do we see her rush to links aid in the final battle, but we see this in the demon dragon, too. When Ganondorf consumes the stone, he does so out of his hatred of Link. He wanted nothing more than to see him dead, and what does he do after becoming the dragon? He immediately attacks Link. Not only that, but he targets Link throughout the entire final battle. So, if his hatred followed him through draconinfication, then who’s to say that his desire to rule didn’t as well? After all, his unrivaled ambition is what amplified his power through the secret stone in the first place.

[@grimms-vi1874]

There are some other interesting bits about Ganondorf's character between the first and second cutscene. If you take his attempted Molduga siege as the inciting objective that he had caught a small lead that the budding kingdom of Hyrule had a relic of great power, then the second scene where he lore-dumps more about the Zonai than they ever do about themselves, it hints at something you see a lot in other scenes he's involved in. Dude really does his homework even if he doesn't ever learn the lesson to be diligently cautious from the moment to moment attempts. Or the whole "I've seen this before!" bit from the moments before his sealing, but on a longer timescale. Also worth noting that in the Japanese version, Ganondorf's last major line during the royal audience is a thinly veiled death threat that'd only be one step away from any more obvious if he drew his sword instead of walking out.

[@westinhellyar5451]

In Breath of the Wild, there was an extention to the game that explored more of link's background before he went into a coma. There might be an extention detailing more of Zelda when she went back in time, and therfore explain more of Ganondorf's character.

[@Ryuxpale]

This was overall a fantastic analysis. Well done! However, i disagree that this Ganondorf's character and motivations are weak in comparison to past titles. In comparison to past Ganondorfs, its important to mention that they as well had very little appearances in the story campaign. For instance, in Wind Waker we encounter Ganondorf twice and its only one piece of dialogue at the very end when he expresses any kind of motivation.

[@biblequotesdaily6618]

this ganon, although he is very intimidating and extremely powerful, reflects link- not only in his final fight, but the ways he chooses to fight hyrule- as a rat in the corner playing his silly tricks. no matter what form he takes, ganon is a chump who is destined to be defeated by a child again and again

[@biblequotesdaily6618]

also lets be real link doesnt have motivation either--- except to kill the shit out of ganon, and do it with style.

[@mindgrenademg9941]

We need some sort of dlc focused on Ganondorfs backstory

[@transcendentsacredcourage]

Many people are asking for this.🏆

[@giantfightingroboto]

As long as it’s free. I don’t see why we should have to pay for some much needed backstory that made the story worse by not including it. But it’s Nintendo so it’ll probably be like £20 and fans will happily pay for it.

[@realperson4993]

I have less of a problem with Ganondorf's lack of characterization and more of a problem with Link's. We get to see snippets of his personality with the different dialogue options, his mannerisms (how he puts his hands on his hips whenever he talks to someone), the posses he can strike with the camera, but that's it. Why can't we see the emotional toll of what he's gone through? He spent countless days and nights in BotW recovering his memories and his power, putting the world back together after the calamity. Why don't we see him mourn the century he lost? The friends that died, that he only got to say goodbye to because their spirits spent a century waiting for him? Why can't we see his despair and frustration as Ganondorf destroys the sword, the hearts, and the world that he worked so hard for? Ganondorf took his damn arm! And then Link woke up with a stranger's arm grafted onto him! The arm of a man that died a millennium ago and isn't even the same species as Link! How are we supposed to believe that Link is a bastion of courage when there isn't even any fear for him to conquer? I'm tired of blank slate protagonists.

[@Plumpus3545]

Agreed, I think Link should be more of a character than a conduit.

[@InvaderGIR98]

He should have shed tears or had SOME expression when you get the final geoglyph and learn of Zelda, I know for pretty much all the games he's supposed to be an player stand-in (I've been told that's why he's androgynous) but snippets of personality shine through in so many ways, it feels there should be more there.

[@realperson4993]

@@InvaderGIR98 I think that if you go to the light dragon right after that final glyph and stand by her snout for a little while, there should be a scene were link cries or something. That way it can portray his personality while still keeping the whole blank slate thing as an option since you would need to specifically seek out the cut scene.

[@tetratoric]

I think that Gannondorf still posses the triforce of power as all his incarnations do, combined with the magic of demise. This combined with a secret stone makes him incredibly powerful, similar to that of Zelda who is shown to have far greater power than Sonia, though perhaps not Rauru. This game gives me the vibe that something is going to come after it. Wether DLC or another sequel, the last two games have made allusions to the triforce, but never addressed it. If not, I am curious to see how the Zelda team inevitably reinvent the series, and which direction they take it from here.

[@jujubear1867]

I beat the game just the other day. I loved beating Ganondorf and watching those two amazing cutscenes with him and was so happy to witness probably the most evil and sinister version of Ganondorf we've ever seen in the Zelda series. But as a new player to this franchise having only played TOTK and BOTW (and being introduced to Ganondorf through short clips from other games and animated shows), Ganondorf seemed to me to be a villain who wants to be evil for the sake of evil rather than have any personal motivations. Now, it is not wrong for a villain to be written this way. A villain that not only enjoys their evilness but also gradually loses their mind and judgement as their evil desires consume them further and further are in my opinion either as good or sometimes better than the "misunderstood" sympathetic villains/antagonists. Ganondorf, in many ways, is perhaps the pinnacle of the former; always so determined to be a force of pure evil that he inevitably becomes a creature of pure evil as the final boss Link must overcome in almost every iteration of the Zelda franchise. With that being said, Ganondorf as a character before he becomes the Demon King does feel weakly written. Having only played BOTW but familiar with the Legend of Zelda games (even having some nostalgia for the original NES game despite never playing it), I could understand the Zelda team's intention to use BOTW to expand on the same formula of Link beating Ganondorf and saving Zelda by not only expanding the world you traverse through but also its story through the addition of the divine beasts. These gave the other races a more important role to the story as Link has to rekindle his relationship with the champions of each race in order to regain control of every divine beast and then use them to deal the first blow to Calamity Ganon before ultimately Link takes him out himself. But Calamity Ganon is not Ganondorf. So knowing how much they expanded on the characters and other races in BOTW, I was expecting for them to follow that same design philosophy here with Ganondorf. At the very least, to explain how a man became the embodiment of an evil so great that every 10,000 years it becomes strong enough to ravage an entire kingdom that requires so much effort to subdue every time. The cutscenes showing Ganondorf displaying a false fealty to Rauru and leading Gerudo soldiers into battle made me think they were going to meet my expectations, but unfortunately the other cutscenes just show his transformation leaving his ultimate motivations for doing all he did a mystery. For how much they expanded on everything else, it seemed odd that they didn't expand on Ganondorf the man as much as the rest of the game. In my opinion, to rectify this I would have liked for them to have added even just a single cutscene, perhaps from a gloom pool somewhere in the depths. In this cutscene we see Ganondorf sitting upon his Gerudo throne, clearly deep in thought (showing his cunning nature which the rest of the game also shows). A Gerudo thief enters the throne room and reveals that under Ganondorf's orders she infiltrated Hyrule Castle and learned the ways the Hylians and the Zonai live. She informs him that just as he suspected, they do in fact live with no hardships and have an abundance of resources. Ganondorf's eyes light up as this information is relayed to him, and with high ranking Gerudo warriors next to him declares war on the Kingdom of Hyrule under the justification of seizing its resources and to bring an end to this persecution of the Gerudo people. At first, he seems to be doing a good thing for his people as a King should do, but when he resides to his chambers he reveals the true motivation for his attack: disgusted by the fact the Hylians and the Zonai no longer live fighting for their survival like he has all his life, he feels the world has gone soft and that the Zonai do not deserve to rule. Not only does he see an opportunity to rule the entire world, but he also has a personal reason to fuel his desire to plunge the world into the same cruelty and despair he has ever known. In order to explain why he enjoys being so evil, either texts of ancient history within Gerudo Town or other added cutscenes could detail Ganondorf's upbringing, and more specifically point out his desire to destroy and harm. Ganondorf I think is meant to be as cunning as he is evil, so his upbringing could have been him learning how to hide his true nature to pass off his strength as an act of necessity for survival rather than enjoyment. Perhaps they might add something like this in DLC, but I will feel content with imaging such a scenario, as the game does a pretty good job in allowing me to imagine what his motivations/origins might have been. If you read all of this, I thank you immensely for doing so! I tend to write way more than I probably should, but I love to go into depth analyzing the various attributes of characters in media and how they are written, so please forgive me if you feel your time was wasted.

[@faceless_man566]

my defense for the story of this game is how they nailed the emotional aspects of zelda's journey and the master sword. i also see that the english translation was missing some stuff about his dislike for the zonai and how courage seems to have left the world. that would seem to make his search for link and zelda (she showed courage too), if thats the case its poetic.

[@samf.s.7731]

I think it's because it can be interpreted as racist and genocidal rhetoric, and he's a dark colored character... Which, had they done that, I think there would be protests near their office here in America. People are saying that as though that's his saving grace and the translation did him dirty... That was really just a product of localization.

[@transcendentsacredcourage]

​@@samf.s.7731 America is pussified. This is coming from an American.

[@Blittsplitt5]

@@samf.s.7731 no

[@masonstewart6232]

I think Tears of the kingdom's dlc should have memories of Ganondorf before and perhaps after becoming the Demon King so that we get more light into what made his desires for conquest so great.

[@TheHitsubasa]

RIP to the dlc

[@323starlight]

I understand your frustration with Ganondorf being absent for most of the game but do remember he is absent because he's trying to recover his full power. When you're in the depths, you see plant like roots that radiate with Gloom, even dealing Gloom Damage if you touch them. And you see the source of these roots when you finally confront ole dehydrated Ganon. Some really good environmental storytelling, like he's literally sucking the life from the world to reempower himself. As for why he didn't make more of an effort to kill Link, I'm fairly certain he did. The Gloom Hands. In my experience (not sure if it's true for everyone else) the gloom hands didn't show up until after I got the first Secret Stone and made a pact with one of the Sages. This is just my own headcanon, but I imagine in that moment, Ganondorf noticed Link was still alive but didn't wanna handle it personally since he was in the middle of juicing up. So he creates Gloom Hands to destroy Link. It especially makes sense when you remember Gloom Hands always spawn near you and will always chase after you. Like you're their primary target. It's also interesting how the Gloom Hands turn into Phantom Ganon after being beaten down. Almost like Ganondorf himself is annoyed you somehow managed to win and is taking control of that puddle of Gloom to deal with you himself. Though that's how I'm interpreting it.

[@croissant2434]

I Can assure you they Spawn before any secret Stone acquired, having my first encounter with them in my first 30 minute on the surface.

[@323starlight]

@@croissant2434 I see.

[@Zac_Frost]

19:00 I really like this point made here. They don't judge the "weapon" so much as the hand it's in. As shown, Rauru and the other Zonai Stone users use them for good, while Ganondorf uses his to almost wipe out the Kingdom. Morally neutral MacGuffins and Artifacts are my favorite things to write in fiction for that reason. Sure, they can do a LOT of damage in the wrong hands, but in the right hands, they can be extremely beneficial. There's a lot you can do writing-wise with something like that, and that's what makes it so fun. Also, at 21:12 there's mention of that. When the Past Sages are getting their Zonai Stones, one mentions that, "The last free Gerudo settlement has fallen to Ganondorf and his followers," suggesting that once they saw what he'd become, they were the ones that deserted him.... no pun intended. So he likely saw fit to take them back into his new Kingdom by force.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

I want to point out that Ganondorf when transformed is textbook Oni. A demon King who looks the part. The clothes, the horns, the hair, the fangs, the weapons. What really ties it together is the sheer malice and darkness he radiates. Like the stone magnified his worst aspects and it corrupted his physical form to embody that of his inner self. A demon in many senses of the word. I hear this is somewhat on par with the Japanese mythology of demons and how the corrupting influence can turn men into monsters. I also love how smug he is in the second phase. Man literally beckons you to come at him with two fingers.

[@Fastollis]

Eh, I’d argue that the “Ganondorf wears fealty” scene isn’t a “rehash” of the Ocarina scene but rather it is that very scene, but different because the timeline branched after Skyward Sword (there’s a blatant time paradox at the end of that game) leading to substantial changes to Hyrule’s makeup

[@Filmonaut]

Agreed overall. Especially the Gerudo have nothing to say about Ganondorf which is very strange. His throne room scene is at least more interesting than it was in OoT.

[@diosama6659]

If I remember correctly there was a video or comment on youtube stating that in the official japanese translation, Ganondorf's motivation is setting the world back to a glory age of darkness where their ancestors thrived I think. I cant seem to find the video or comment so if anyone could back me up if its true that would be great.

[@ultraspinalki11]

Sad to see how Nintendo backpeddled with Ganondorf's development. I remember prior to TotK's release, there were so many Zelda videos on youtube theorizing how Ganondorf would be an expansion of Windwaker's take on him, that he'd be aware and/or trying to break the curse of Demise or such. That he wouldn't just be a villain with basic goals. There were SO many possibilities for the character discussed by fans that were more interesting than what TotK ultimately gave us.

[@jimboanimations4041]

I mean, he is actually a bit more similar to the Windwaker Ganon in the non-english translations of the game. He is still evil in those versions, but he *did* at least have a true motive behind his goals.

[@ultraspinalki11]

@@jimboanimations4041 But there are other aspects to Windwaker Ganon that this latest iteration doesn't possess. For instance, WW Ganon says to Link "Do not fear, I will not kill you. I only want the power that resides in you." This shows that he is merciful, understanding/reasonable and not just an edgy bad guy that wants to kill the hero because he is an obstacle and represents the "light", unlike TotK. Heck, the fact that WW Ganon declares that the gods were cruel for destroying the glorious kingdom of Hyrule and finds the current fate of the survivors to be unjust (living on tiny islands) shows an interesting side to him. WW Ganon was so enjoyable to fans, that some of us undoubtedly hoped he'd succeed in bringing back Hyrule from the sea. I personally didn't like TotK Ganon at all, and consequently my overall enjoyment of the game's plot suffered as a whole. EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to ask you to go into details on the non-english versions of TotK and/or WW?

[@jimboanimations4041]

@@ultraspinalki11 To keep things short: Ganondorf in TOTK believes that Rauru and the rest of the Zonai have made true courage and strength obsolete. The people of Hyrule are now too weak and too cowardly under their peaceful rule, and Rauru's arrogance as a king is to blame. Ganon wants to tear down Hyrule and build a new world in its place, one where power and fighting spirit replaces the peace and simple values of the old world. Ganon wants to reshape the land to what *he* thinks is right, and that he wants to serve as an example of how a true king should rule. He is not really a sympathetic character like WW Ganon is, but his ambition goes beyond a simple lust for power. It was just the English translation that dampened his actual motives.

[@ultraspinalki11]

@@jimboanimations4041 I'd be inclined to understand this goal of his if the land of Hyrule was under threat by or at war with some outside kingdom/civilization. They could show that Hyrule struggles to defend itself and thus Ganondorf would be motivated to take over Hyrule from within and strengthen it. Maybe show that there was a time Hyrule failed to defend an allied race, leading Ganon to be displeased with the current king, etc.

[@nickw7287]

I personally don’t want a deep look at Ganondorfs motivation. I liked the sparse interactions we had with him. You don’t need it with such a powerful archetypal character like Ganon.

[@Lahiss]

31:52 Yes the health bar is supposed to stay off center as it grows up to 200%. Hilarious and terrifying storytelling through gameplay mechanics. Ganondorf is so powerful that he broke the boss health meter.

[@marche800]

I definitely think Kohga is filling the rolenof Active villain much like Ghirahim or Zant before him. I guess the devs were banking on him being enough. I do definitely think they could have had him appear on each of the temples and taunt you. Maybe even have that taunting turn into an early surprise boss fight before the regular temple boss after you have completed a few of them. PS. I wouldn't be surprised if they make another Hyrule Warrios based on this game instesd of BOTW. It's too much of a Gimme at this point

[@Jenna_Talia]

They won't make another hyrule warriors for a long while now as age of calamity was literally the game made before totk.

[@mjc0961]

Yeah, the original war for Hyrule between Ganondorf and Rauru just screamed "this is so we can make another 'what if the heroes won' dynasty warriors spinoff" to me. That scene of Ganondorf as the Demon King riding on his demon horse leading his army into battle is too awesome not to make a game out of. I just hope we get it for a console that can run it at more than 12 fps this time...

[@marche800]

@Jenna_Talia Never say never e're probably going to wait another 6 or more years for the next Zelda I wouldn't be surprised if they did make one in that interim.

[@craigdellicarpini772]

I truly believe people overstate Wind Waker Ganondorf. We're not talking about tragic villain, we're talking about the King of Evil here. When we approach Ganondorf at the end of Wind Waker, he gives us this speech, but when the Triforce is within reach, we see him for who he is, its a facade. Its really in his wish we see his true desire, "Give Hyrule to me!", and when that desire is taken from him he turns to violence. He's not lashing out, his plans are foiled and he wants to kill you.

[@mtamer2943]

Bruh literally just said "I coveted that wind, I suppose" and put him in S tier character development. Like, sure is cool buuuuut yeah

[@mjc0961]

...What do you THINK Ganondorf meant with his speech? He was literally telling you WHY he wants Hyrule. The desert where his people lived brought hardship and death, but Hyrule was prosperous. That's why he was trying to take over Hyrule all those years ago. That's why his wish to the Triforce is to give Hyrule to him. It's not a contradiction, it's the obvious thing for him to wish for after that speech.

[@TerryB01]

While you're on a Zelda BOTW/TOTK kick you can always go over the champions. The haughty Reveli and the every supportive Sidon are as good a contras as Yonobo and Mipha in their uncertainness. Mipha, Riku, and Zelda compare as princesses too.

[@charlesfisher-kh5sw]

why a kingdom hearts character?

[@TerryB01]

@@charlesfisher-kh5sw I got the spelling wrong. I meant the younger fire champion.

[@elpopman2055]

TerryB01 Reveli actually had a more pleasant personality in the original translation.. He never down played the abilities of others and actually admitted Link was The Key.

[@mjc0961]

You lost me at the completely random mention of a character that doesn't exist.

[@TerryB01]

@@mjc0961 Which one? OK how about this, the smug bird champion and Sidon can be a fun contrasting allies looks, just like Sidon's older sister and the younger fire champion for similiar allies. Seeing how Zelda, the younger lightening champion, and Sidon's older sister all handle being a princess differently could be a look thing to look at too.

[@ZeoViolet]

Windwaker Ganondorf was the one that stood out, for being introspective instead of just flat-out villainous. I'd love a Ganondorf who felt his actions didn't need dictated by a long-ago curse, upon finding out about Demise. He may or may not be less villainous overall for it, but he'd certainly have more to think about, and trying to eff up a curse might have...consequences, good and bad.

[@RSanchez111]

You know, I wonder what came first: the idea to add caves/depths or the idea to add the Upheaval. I get the feeling the idea to explain new additions using the Upheaval came late, and by that time they may have been forced to make Ganondorf fit into that. If there was no Upheaval they could have made Ganondorf travel the world, maybe in an effort to restore his body... *Maybe like the movie "The Mummy"...* Actually making Mummy Ganondorf like The Mummy would've made him interact with Link a lot more.

[@transcendentsacredcourage]

If they interacted a lot more, they'd eventually get annoyed with each other. 😂 Link: "Damn it! You AGAIN?! This is like the fifth time I fought you!" Corpse Ganondorf: "The world is round, you little interfering whelp! Prepare for death!"

[@RSanchez111]

@@transcendentsacredcourage them getting annoyed with each other is honestly what happened between Link and Kohga, LOL

[@Nyrufa]

Look at Ganondorf's expression right after he says "that was all you could do?" - It's not even a look of surprise, but rather one of utter disgust at the two heroes gathered before him. Basically, his face says "I waited 10,000 years for THAT!?"

[@GUNDAMURX73]

Personally, something I found vital to TotK's Ganondorf (which was muddled a bit in the english translation) is that his entire identity is built on two virtues: power and conquest. In the harsh desert, only the strong can survive. When they encounter creatures stronger, like the Molduga, they find a way to conquer that strength and make it their own. To Ganondorf, that's what a king must be. The most powerful and cunning conqueror, to bring all into his grasp. Crush, destroy, take from others and make it your own. In a word, he's a warlord. And if something cannot be overcome, you do what you must to become a stronger version of yourself, so that you can prevail. Hyrule, as founded by Rauru, flies in the face of everything he believes in and every triumph he has accomplished throughout his life. Rauru is himself mighty, but promotes peace and cooperation. He has power, but does not conquer. He draws others to his cause, but does not make them his own through that strength... what, then, is the purpose of it? In Ganondorf's eyes, Rauru is not a "true ruler", someone who has strength but arrogantly treads the path of a weakling. And, believing in the rule of might, Ganondorf resolves to crush the Kingdom of Hyrule which was founded on complacency and make its bounty his own. So he steals a Secret Stone. He makes its power his own, and becomes a Demon King, the embodiment of malicious power and might. And with that power, he will grind the world beneath his boot. Because that, to Ganondorf, that is what it means to be what a True King.

[@thejokahfiedone4125]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who understands this.

[@GUNDAMURX73]

@@thejokahfiedone4125 What's really interesting to me is that TotK's Ganondorf seems to be a blend of his Ocarina of Time and Windwaker incarnations, in terms of personality and motivation, mixed in with hints of the dormant power of Demise's curse. He might be the most iconic Ganondorf we've gotten so far.

[@thejokahfiedone4125]

​ @GUNDAMURX73 In my opinion Ganondorf is an almost perfectly written villain. Specifically since the way he's written demonstrates an interesting dichotomy between two archetypes. On the surface level his character comes off as classical or generic and sometimes even slightly comical, but when you look in depth, specifically towards his people's lifestyle, what he had to be for them at such a young age and for the rest of his life, and the conditions from which the foundation of his world views were built upon, his ambition and conquest all comes full circle. A pivotal quote before the final battle in Wind Waker hints at this complexity, sparking a shift in how some audiences perceive him. What's interesting in my eyes is this duality of archetypes should give people something to really think about. People often ask why he isn't written better. A person, a king in this regard, who is built on ambition and conquest knows people only aim to see an individual's success and not their struggles just like he would, so why would Ganondorf or the writers bother telling you anything concrete about his life on the surface? Which honestly makes Ganon one of the realest villains. They never give concrete information but what they do offer is elements here and there for his background to be open to interpretation.

[@sekaix45]

Well, actually, Kotake and Koume appears, are those Gerudo who are back of Ganondorf when he presents to Rauru, but yeah, I would like them to fight in this game too And about the other points, when I realized that Ganon didn't develope as he could neither the Zonnan, I have been thinking that maybe Nintendo is preparing some Dlcs, taking the fact too that in the game data are two paraglyder designs that can't be unlocked, so yeah, it could be that, a dirty movement to make the fans pay more

[@dragoknight589]

I really hope that potential DLC could add some additional memory-type cutscenes to the game to flesh out Ganondorf’s backstory. Maybe something to make him more active in the plot, too.

[@springlink3188]

31:53 The HP bar continuing is supposed to be one of those shock moments to show his power, as the player is trained to expect it goes its regular distance, but his just keeps going...and going...and it is like killing him is now a gargantuan task

[@ckenshin3841]

Ganondorf in ToTK reminds me alot of Skull Kid in Majora's Mask, where you have a really compelling introduction to the character and then Skull Kid disappears from the game until the end but throughout the game you see the chaos and mayhem introduced throughout the world of Termina. You see something like that here in ToTK where you see the chaos that is afflicted over the world with the Regional Phenomena. I think how Ganondorf personally afflicted each of the four tribes shows that he has insight on their weaknesses and the best ways to break them. ToTK has the benefit of the Gloom, the Gloom Hands, and the Phantom Ganons where give the impression that Ganondorf's presence is everpresent throughout the world and that he is always watching you.

[@kiiyll]

Just beat the game, perfect timing. Looking forward to watching this one, and loved your other videos on Zelda!

[@Kitsunade1]

The thing I was most let down by was the lack of Ganondorf appearing throughout the game. A big complaint I had about BotW is that Calamity Ganon is just some big scary name that gets constantly thrown around, and while you see his presence throughout the game with the malice and the Blights, you don't really see him at all until the very end. TotK does a slightly better job with this with the Floormaster Ganons and the boss Phantom Ganon, but I was really hoping that after the opening where he personally destroys the Master Sword and Link's entire arm, that he would be show up more throughout the game instead of just at the start then just at the end. Like, at least in Wind Waker, that scene after fighting the Helmaroc King where Ganondorf calls your sword limp-dicked and messes you up is such a powerful motivator for the player to push on through what they need to (and lord knows they'll need it with the Triforce Quest, at least in the OG) to take him down. I would've loved to see something like that here. I haven't played very many Zeldas myself, so it's disappointing to hear that Ganondorf is usually as underwritten as he is here, with some standout exceptions (my beloved Wind Waker). It's interesting because his scenes seem to follow a similar complaint that I have with Zelda's. BotW Zelda was my favorite Zelda after playing the original, and after Age of Calamity, my love for her shot through the roof. And when it comes to Tears of the Kingdom, I think that the story that they gave her was incredible. ...despite how much it sucks. Like, her storyline is inherently not great. She once again gets relegated to the background, not allowed to do anything as an active player throughout the game, and according to Aonuma, this is always their intent with Zelda. With all that in mind, knowing about the writers' commitment to keeping her on the sidelines, this is probably the best storyline that they could have come up with for her. Taking one of the most stalwart pieces of the series' iconography, and indelibly linking it to her. I cannot look at the Master Sword now without thinking of her and her sacrifice. I cannot think about the title of the game without thinking of the person whose tears they're referencing. It's incredible. And then, when the two storylines intersect, with Link holding out the Master Sword atop the Light Dragon as they face down the Demon Dragon in a golden sky? It somehow makes it all worth it. If Ganondorf being underwritten and caring solely about power means we get to this final boss fight, it's worth it. If Zelda being sidelined leads to a storyline where she is directly helping Link defeat the Demon King once and for all, it's worth it. If all of this leads to that final Dive with the sky theme, Zelda's theme, and the main theme playing as Link reaches for Zelda's hand just like he did in the beginning, but is now able to catch it, it's worth it. It's such a weird opinion to have of a game, where all the questionable and honestly subpar writing decisions coalesce into a climax that somehow manages to bring it all together and make it more than the sum of its parts. I think the biggest issue with it is that the aforementioned writing decisions are tradition, for a word. Ganondorf is written as he normally is. Zelda is shunted aside as she normally is. This amazing climax is built on the back of series tradition, which is extremely unfortunate given that the BotW series is about bucking series tradition and doing something new. It's a shame that the writers felt the one thing they need to adhere to is the part that's been lacking for decades, because this game's final boss fight and ending show that they can make amazing things if they just let go of what they've done in the past.

[@dez-m]

So looking forward to this! Your video essays go into great depth!

[@TheGalaxyWings]

Depth ? Holy shit is that a motherfucking The Legend of Zelda : Tears of the Kingdom reference ?

[@PuddnPuyo]

I love how the final boss fight was less about skills and difficulty and more about courage to do the thing.

[@ptgamer1vlog]

I feel Dorf's actual motivation isn't really about light or darkness, but about conflict. The way he calls everyone's weaklings and shit. I always read Ganondorf's motivation as making a world wreathed in conflict so that its people will be made strong. Strong like he and the Gerudo, though both his drive and his standards are all driven to impossible to reach levels due to what I have to assume is Demise's influence. With this reading I never really had an issue with the matter of motivation, though I do agree it desperately needs detail because I am relying on a headcanon

[@pkpyro2000]

So there are some important things that got lost in translation and somethings that didn’t get mentioned but show up in the Memories. Twinrova is in the game at least she’s behind Ganondorf in the Molduga and False Allegiance scene the two women behind him are Kotake and Koume. You can tell from their masks and clothes. Ganondorf even has their names engraved on his blade. As for Ganondorf’s reasons for taking over Hyrule in the English version of the game some of his motivations didn’t make it through. There was a comment I found explaining it so i’ll just paste that below: “Totk ganondorf wierdly seems to not have a motivation in the english translation. However in japanese, Ganondorf talks about how the world lost it's original courage, and that he intends to bring the world to it's ancient glory, probably before the Zonai came.” “Since in the cutscene where he is swearing loyalty to Rauru, he cleary shows that he hates their spieces and their arrogance, since they descend from the gods. Sad that most of this wasn't kept in the english translation.”

[@alyssapotamus]

Imagine if there was a secret memorial in a cave for Ganon’s mother in the Gerardo desert or if a Yiga Clan member in the hideout spoke to Ganon’s motives or if we in the Yiga hideout watched some sort of ceremony that let us know more about Ganon’s motives. The opportunities for Ganon lore is always available even with this type of narrative, why not just add more? Imagine if at the very end there was a tear from final form Ganon that allowed us to empathize with the great evil we just killed?

[@Xp070]

10:41 Kotake and Koume are in totk! In the memory where the gerudo send the Molduga towards the plateu and the memory where Ganondorf swears fealty to the kingdom there are two gerudo women wearing gold masks. The robes they wear have Hyrulean text that translate to their names. Also the Gloom Sword (and maybe the other gloom weapons IDK) has both their names etched on the blade near the hilt.

[@mnopinion]

Watching the that cutscene again made me realize that ganon instantly recognized zelda because she went back in time. But he didnt recognize link, he just assumed based from what Raru told him before he was sealed in.

[@zenith613]

I'm hoping that they bring this story together with more context and world building in a DLC. I'd hope for a DLC that focuses more on Ganondorf and his backstory, perhaps even presenting more memories, main questlines, and even more fights against him or some corrupt Gerudo. Hell, this may be a stretch, but being able to find literal copies of himself around the world, perhaps his own phantoms imbued with the most of his power, simply scouting in a similar manner to his puppet of Zelda, would be rather enjoyable.

[@acorn861]

i mean, phantom ganons can be found around the world in the form of gloom spawn. kill them and you have to fight phantom ganons, which puppet zelda was basically a phantom ganon

[@ComixAndCo]

I think it says something about him that the one cutscene from his perspective is the one of him leading the monster hordes. like you said, the majority of the memories we collect are zelda’s, but the one time ganondorf has the opportunity to share his side of the story, he doesn’t stop to explain why he wants to rule hyrule, his history or the history of the gerudo. he tells link and the sages about his brief time before the sealing as the demon king, powerful and commanding large armies of monsters. that’s the part of his legacy he wants to carry into this new world, and who he wants to be known as by the people he plans to conquer and destroy. it’s such an interesting shift from his visit to hyrule castle, where rauru calls him a hero to his people, he clearly did a lot for the gerudo once, but now he wants to place himself as far away from his human self as he can.

[@paul-jp1rb]

I was watching this video and then my neighbor came and we watched it together. He said that this video changed his life and touched his heart. I then went and rented a projector in a big field and my entire town watched it and it changed their lives too. We all are so grateful. Thank You for this video….