Google Extends Linux Kernel Support for Android

[@dan79600]

Support length and timely security updates are very important to me. It’s an absolute scandal that OEMs rarely support their devices for more than a few years after launch.

[@GaryExplains]

I am using a OnePlus 8 from 2020 and it is still getting security updates.

[@dan79600]

@@GaryExplains OnePlus are one of the better OEMs, but they still only offer 3 years of Android updates + 1 year of security updates. So your phone will stop receiving updates at some point this year. Compare that to Apple who offer 7 years of iOS updates and security updates.

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

That's fairly reasonable. I don't think it adds any extra purchase value the promise of 4+ android releases and 6+ years of security.

[@israellewis5484]

@@GaryExplains They are one of the few who actually update security past the 2 year cycle.

[@shadmansudipto7287]

​@@dan79600 They have probably looked at how few people keep their phones after the 4th year and decided it's not worth the cost to support it at that point for so few people.

[@Tim_Small]

A video on the Open Source community's ongoing support of EOL phones like the Oneplus 6 might be interesting. This can now run a mainline Linux kernel (albeit without camera support yet due to secret closed source image processing techniques in the vendor drivers).

[@HolarMusic]

Thanks safetynet for ruining it though

[@burhanbudak6041]

​@@HolarMusicSN is dead, PI is a POS now

[@BenjaminWSong]

I believe we should start calling Android phones "Closed Linux Phones" to help people realize they are actually using a Linux-based system, albeit with proprietary packages from Google. Maybe then, people would better understand the importance of open source.

[@nothing9220]

Yeah... Google makes sure AOSP remain useless without Google service...

[@legendboyAni]

​@@nothing9220what you mean j am using grapheneOS for like 6 months without any google services with no issue, and yes even youtube works on microg

[@livinginharmony360]

Basically bastardised Linux mobile. Yes

[@Seven71987]

Shut up, Android Phones are open source the os itself is open Google just added their services which is closed source so calling them closed Linux phones is dumb. It's better to call em Google Linux Phones.

[@BenjaminWSong]

@@Seven71987 Yes, you are 100% correct, especially for tech-savvy crowds. Like GrapheneOS for selected devices. However, the general public doesn't even know that most IoT devices run on Linux. I've even seen people trying to run .exe files on a Mac. The point isn't about the terms "closed" or "Google." It's about helping the general public realize that Android phones are essentially Linux phones. We can decide on terms like "closed" or "Google" once people accept that Android phones are Linux-based. That being said, people often ask me why the Linux community doesn't focus more on developing open-source AOSP apps and ecosystems first, instead of creating obscure foundations that nobody is interested in, hoping to make a breakthrough. Hope my explanation would light up your mood.

[@SkeptiSquid]

Qualcomm should just upstream their drivers so android can use a modern linux kernel without back-porting everything

[@tirx3]

So latest android still using old kernel?

[@anonymoususerinterface]

@@tirx3 yes, the way I found out was by installing Termux from FDroid and then installing neofetch. I was quite suprised I ran the Linux 4 kernel...

[@send2gl]

Must admit with my computer I always use Linux with LTS but haven't thought much about phone. Recently bought new phone with Android 13 which has since upgraded to 14. Was unaware of association between Linux kernel and Android.

[@soupborsh6002]

I want to see more normal GNU/Linux on phones!

[@GaryExplains]

What is "normal GNU/Linux"? You mean a desktop distro? How would that be useful? Mobile apps need a mobile UI not a desktop UI.

[@nikitf7777]

@@GaryExplains A lot of gnome applications already suitable for touchscreens and vertical screens. And also it's possible to run android apps on linux throught waydroid.

[@TheJavw]

Android really should support Linux programs if they are going to support their desktop mode

[@luciusjackson3399]

that is basically chrome os

[@mosemister]

For me. The feature time is the more important date i look at when looking into a phone. When the phone stops receiving updates i typically install a custom rom on it

[@bowieknife]

It's quite an important factor as the bank apps I use say they won't run if the security patches/os versions aren't up to date...

[@therealmarv]

So what happens when a phone will receive 7 years of updates and the Kernel only offers 4 or 6 years of updates? Is there a Kernel upgrade happening on a specific OTA upgrade?

[@sudipchatterjee]

This is fantastic news! Yes, this is one of the most important things that I look for in a phone before I buy one. Thanks for the update!

[@test40323]

i'm not someone who replace their devices more frequently than their underwear. having said that, unless a reviewer discusses the LTS details, you really don't know at the time of purchase. pretty ...here's my credit card. :-)

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

Above 3 Android version release upgrades and 4-5 years of security updates anything is pretty equivalent.

[@Greenmarty]

One just gotta love how google wants Linux kernel LTS every six years but enforces Android apps to target latest Android with penalties.

[@GaryExplains]

Actually Google wants you to target the latest sdk platform for the same reasons as the kernel updates: security and bug fixes. The latest sdk is backwards compatible with older android version.

[@Greenmarty]

​@@GaryExplains Point is that they are not exactly practicing what they preach.

[@GaryExplains]

Eh? They are practicing exactly what they preach. The difference is that using the latest sdk is easy whereas upgrading the kernel is hard, so it is better to maintain the existing version, not so with the sdk.

[@Greenmarty]

@@GaryExplains Not in my experience.

[@walid6329]

Security updates are very important, yet project mainline is important too. I believe a video about it would be awesome since there were big changes in Android 14 and I guess they will keep the momentum for Android 15

[@laujimmy9282]

Very informative video 🎉, thank you. For regular buyers, I doubt anyone actually knows about this. As an Android developer, to be honest, I didn't know about this till now 😂. So yeah, I think it's something to consider, however, we sometimes stick with a phone for more than 6 years, which is longer than the support duration. Therefore, I don't think it is being considered when purchasing a phone.

[@alignedfibers]

Android has built in a process where the kernel can be updated with system update. The way they do it is they keep a full copy of the previous system, and the new system and the bootloader handles the attempt to boot into the new system and if not falls back to the previous one. This was not always like this, and system updates were hard, since this new system has been established, vendors now use this same system for update and OTA update systems are less commonly uses for the main or core system, however highly customized vendor distributions may still use OEM updates, or during the system update, an additional package will be required and downloaded for the vendor functionality. Your phone is not stuck on any kernel and google has made it much more simple and eliminated the possibility of your phone being bricked during an update. So for the additional support of the android kernels, I am not sure why they are doing that but it could be related to vendor needs since updating the kernel and full system updates may be more difficult for the vendor, however for phones running pure AOSP, and Pixel Phones, I would expect the kernels to update as soon as a new kernel is available in AOSP.

[@simonupton-millard]

I baught a fairphone 4 because of its support 5 year warranty and at least 5 years of updates

[@davidmeier1004]

Well, kernel support is extremely important to me. So much so that i use a pinephone and pinetab2. (arch btw)

[@questionlp]

I generally upgrade phones roughly every 3 years and the phone that I upgrade from will get passed down and used for another 3 years, for a total of 6. So, I would want security updates and bug fixes for that period of time. A proven track record of providing security updates like that is probably the most important thing to me, even if it costs more. Camera would probably come in second since I want something good to take photos and videos at events (for non-profits and community groups) to share with the organizers. Everything else is a distant third.

[@max03tube]

Hey Gary, I like the Penguin background behind you 😃

[@jeclark]

Ongoing support with updates is the main reason why I finally switched from Android to Apple a couple of years ago.

[@deth3021]

You normally loose a year with design in? So 3 year lifespan?

[@skf957]

Phew, for a minute I thought those F.C.s at Google were inside my Linux kernel. Just the phone, that's OK as it has a fake ID... Now, where's the Bacofoil?

[@martineyles]

Headphone support (wired and wireless), storage support (decent internal and expandable), charging support (wireless and fast wired) and camera (16-125mm (35mm equivalent) focal lengths, at least 4k (8mp) resolution with good sensors) are my primary considerations, but if they are all ok, android updates would probably be the next thing. However, I think Sony Xperia 1 mark ii to vi are the only recent phones (since LG and proper Nokia (808 Pureview) disappeared and Samsung and Apple dropped wired headphone support) that currently match my primary considerations, so I'm stuck with whatever software support they provide.

[@danielgomez2503]

I stopped buying android devices because of LTS, I have a draw full of perfectly fine and capable devices that OEMs stop supporting less than 2 years later with updates

[@PatrikKron]

Security updates are important, I would also like feature updates, but it's not as critical (although missing passkeys support in third party apps in android

[@bevintx5440]

Thanks for the interesting video. We used to purchase mid priced Android phones from a couple major cellphone companies, but then found that they often used Android versions that couldn’t get any updates at all. Unfortunately those companies didn’t mention that in any of their literature. Needless to say, we found that problematic when notorious Android bugs were announced. At the time, we looked at higher end Android phones but found that they guaranteed OS upgrades/updates for significantly fewer years than for iPhones. So instead of getting high end Android phones, we replaced our Android phones worth iPhones. I must admit that we had some impetus to move in that direction, because we already used iPads, but the OS update issue was the major factor. So I’m wondering if that Android maintenance schedule pertains to low to mid range cost Android phones? Do all Android cellphone manufacturers adhere to that schedule? If not, then which companies do adhere to it? 

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

If the LTS release of the kernel plus the patches by the Google Android team is found to be vulnerable or to have a bug in a frozen feature, they will publish an updated version honoring the 6 years schedule. Most phone manufacturers and most budget-friendly phones will still choose not to push the newer updated 'upstream' (that's what called when somebody you depend on publishes and maintains something you also rely on) version. Only flagships from non-sanctioned brands with over 1 million units sales per year will still be reliable to push those upgrades to end devices. Probably: Samsung, Honor, Xiaomi, Motorola, ASUS, Google, Oppo, Vivo, Lenovo, Sony, OnePlus. I still wouldn't expect flagships from specialized brands or very low volume brands, or eInk brands like Boox, to be updating at any reliable rate past the first 6 months of launch.

[@DeepakKumar-lv4te]

go to a custom ROM ?

[@bevintx5440]

@@LuisDiaz-qg3eg We used Samsung and Motorola mid-range Android phones. I had an iPad Air 2 (mid range iPad) that supported 8 major OS versions, released approximately 1 year apart. It is still receiving security updates. Of course there is no guarantee that Apple will support all of their devices to that extent, but this is why we switched to iPhones.

[@bevintx5440]

@@DeepakKumar-lv4te I don’t understand.

[@4bafiafzil999]

​@@DeepakKumar-lv4teGSIs if that's not available

[@samaitcheson7057]

Good news for those of us who are technically minded but have you ever asked the staff in a high street phone vendor a question about kernel support? 😂

[@themenon]

Hey Gary...please help me understand why my Google pixel updated to Android 15 beta, is still on kernel 5.10.xxx-android-13.4. Are the olderer devices tagged to old linux kernel but rest of the AOSP upgraded to Android 15 based on the device we are using.

[@joakimus74]

software support time frame is critical.

[@jjcoolaus]

I carry an iPhone 12 and a pixel 8a. 2 phones that will be supported by updates and security patches for years to come

[@geraldlee982]

Defo a point of consideration when purchasing an Android device, more so in today's buy and throw away norm ...

[@flixz2695]

Does that mean Manufacturers will be required to update the kernel if they guarantee for example 5 OS Upgrades?

[@lohiths5302]

Google has experimented with kernel upgrades. Most other phone makers don't

[@seuri678]

I calculate the total cost of ownership. After no updates, I dispose of my phone.

[@Winnetou17]

I'm one of the weirdos that want to use the phone as mostly a phone, not for everything. I specifically didn't installed the banking app, as I don't want it, and overall I don't trust phone in general that much, and above else, I don't like to have so much of everything in one place. I don't want a fatal panic attack if my phone is lost, destroyed or stolen. So, with the above, if Fairphone would've had a headphone jack it would be about perfect for me. Though I would settle for a phone that has 2 USB ports if it doesn't have a headphone jack. I do use the headphone jack (best placed on the top of the phone, not next to the charging port) and I do use a microSD card too, so that's a requirement too. The camera and performance they don't need to be great, but not super slow/old either. I do same games and I do feel like my Samsung Note 9 is a bit slow and laggy at times. I do want access, control and a design that's repair friendly, that's why I mentiond Fairphone (don't ask why I got a Samsung, I knew much less about the landscape then, I bought it mostly for the "it has many features and doesn't have that idiotic notch which I hate"). Speaking of, I hate notches, and I DO like having a bit of bezels. Phone with a notch, even if it's just a small circular one - total deal breaker. Phone with rounded corners - don't want to hear about them. Too bad that GrapheneOS only works on Pixel phones, I heard it is a great OS. Even if the phones are great technically, I don't want to hear about them either. I don't want to support 60Ogle in their gigantic spyware and slowly closing arena that is Android (cough 6o0gle services cough)

[@Lethal_Spoon]

yo that thumbnail is the background i have on my phone

[@DavidAlsh]

Given Android runs on top of the Linux kernel - I wonder if you can run normal desktop Linux software on a Rooted Android device. Can we run Android applications on Desktop Linux? What about a rooted Android device running desktop Linux where Android apps could be run in containers?

[@Winnetou17]

For the first question - I don't know For the second question - Waydroid is a thing. Including on x86_64 CPUs For the 3rd question, if the 1st question has a "yes" as the answer, pretty sure this would work too.

[@DavidAlsh]

@@Winnetou17 interesting, I'm messing around with waydroid on my fedora desktop now. I wonder if something like waydroid is the key to make Linux phones practical - as the lack of apps has been the biggest issue for me. I'd love to see a Linux phone that I can plug into a usb4 dock to use as a desktop, whilst retaining support for Android apps I use daily 🤔

[@seuri678]

​@@DavidAlsh 1st question: Pretty much yes -> Use your favorite search engine.

Hi! Project Mainline is progressing slowly but too slowly in my opinion. Like, the current device powered by Snapdragon 845 is plenty fast with good battery life but stuck on older Android 11 despite 845 having good (linux) mainline kernel support. PostmarketOS exists but bootloader unlock has to be supported by the OEM. Unfortunately, not many OEMs support the unlock process. Seriously considering x86 handhelds with linuxos, the only issue being lack of good camera(s). Maybe that'll change soon!

[@El.Duder-ino]

I don't understand how is decrease of the support time by Google for the Android kernel from 6 to 4 years beneficial or positive for the end users? Google should lead the support time especially on their Pixel HW and always try to increase it as much a possible, not the opposite! Long support lifetime is a showcase of company's commitment to end user/customer as well it shows right approach towards sustainability, especially when device is also scoring well on the repairability scale. Google has increased support lifetime with latest Pixels, however it should do more to beat Apple. Samsung is also falling behind by providing security Android OS updates and upgrades only with their flagship Galaxy devices.

[@pavelglosl8221]

Great information / video! :-) Thanks. I don't search other's people comments here, but I would kindly ask if you can (in some comment and/or subsequent video) show some particular example of 'About' or settings screen in concrete Android device (phone/tbalet) and point to individual option/label where is Linux kernel version number(s) encoded/displayed please? Thank you wery much. Pavel.

[@GaryExplains]

You will find it in settings under something like About Phone or Software versions. Should be self evident. 👍

[@zenobikraweznick]

Mainstream ? Mainline ? Please explain...

[@GaryExplains]

The official kernel released on kernel.org

[@jameswhite1450]

I'm a fanboi of Apple and syncs between my Iphone and ipad. For work and gaming I am a Windows and Linux user. That means I don't follow the life span of a product but I refresh when my brain says "time to upgrade".

[@artim96]

Google is promising 7 years of updates for Pixel 8 and beyond - including 8a - yet only 4 years of Kernel updates? Sure, malicious software has to come that far for Kernel level security issues to be relevant, but still it doesn't sound that well thought through. At least judging on their current practice of never updating the Kernel version itself and only doing backports. And I don't know of any OEM doing anything else. Of course if Google where able to force chipset manufacturers to open source all their drivers and upstream them, it would probably get easier to just ship Android Upgrades with the latest LTS Kernel and only have the extended support be relevant for OEMs that only offer upgrades for a shorter period but still ship security updates for a longer time. But OEMs would surely try to sue Google over that, so hell probably freezes over first.

[@fuseteam]

Sue them over what tho? The linux kernel is GPL licensed, so technically any kernel modifications must be made open source

[@fuseteam]

Also the support period is for updates for the single kernel version aka 4 years for 6.6.if they update to say 6.12 that gets 4 years from the moment 6.12 is released

[@Winnetou17]

It's only 4 years of kernel updates because a particular kernel version is used by a particular Android version. You can upgrade to a newer Android version (say, Android 17 in 3 years) and you'll get another 3-4 years of kernel support for that one. But my Samsung Note 9 can only have Android 10 (or Samsung only supports this, not so sure if I can install a LineageOS or something similar with a newer Android version), so in this case the kernel support matters.(just checked, it's 4.9 which means it's out of support. This phone has only 3 years, it will be hard to stretch that to 5 years like I intended)

[@fuseteam]

@@Winnetou17 android upgrades usually don't include kernel upgrades tho, notice how the android 15 upgrades go all the way back to 4.19, while devices launched with android 15 start with 6.1

[@Winnetou17]

@@fuseteam Are you sure ? Where do you see that ? In the video I only see Android 15 with 6.6. And Android 14 with both 5.15 and 6.1

[@blackboxmedia4953]

Wen framework phones