WARNING - Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - WARNING

[@claesmanson1989]

Sad to hear Gary. In Sweden the warranty is 70% of the battery within 8 years or 160k km.

[@arnoldlekkerbelangrijk25]

In the Netherlands 58 percent , mine is now at 69 and 3 years warranty left

[@rayrichardson1714]

Gary, Don't give up. There's a whole list of organizations that maybe able to help you out: Consumer Affairs Canada, Consumer Protection Ontario, plus CBC, CTV, and Global all have consumer protection shows. Good Luck.

[@strelokreg]

I was refused a battery replacement after DBCAM because I changed the engine oil and filters at another service center and not at the official dealer.

[@shrirammurali]

Got my battery replaced on my 2018 phev in Hamilton, Ontario after fighting lots. Yep my last Mitsubishi. I got it replaced in the summer of 2023. So Mitsubishi telling you they have never replaced it is a total lie.

[@stevenalexander403]

I own both generations of Outlander PHEV and have not experienced any issues whatsoever.

[@Dragonsitter]

It’s shocking it’s still going on Gary. It looks like a very frustrating fault

[@tawakkuladel]

I have the 2018 GT and I am facing the same issue here. Can't we class action those.......

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes...working on some stuff ...just waiting to hear back from Mitsubishi Canada...hmmm called them last Friday today is Wednesday...guess what still have not gotten back to me.

[@bartmal4146]

Hi, I'm from Dublin, would you recommend the same old method to disconnect battery while charging to reset BMU for 2018?

[@billnagra4054]

I have the same 2020 model which I bought brand new. I have same problem as you. I use to get almost 50km now after only 2 years, it’s doing 30km with best practices. Mitsubishi dealer wants to do battery reset for $300 every 2 years. They’ve already done it once for free. I don’t know if it’s worth it to get it done.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes get it done...you will be right back up to 50kms....they need to stop charging us and make it right...I have been fighting that from day one...

[@maximlanglais9204]

@@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld Do you have the procedure number or task card whatever they call it ? thanks

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

@@maximlanglais9204 No because when I actually read the print out they gave me it has no battery service procedures on my summary display...nothing...but they confirmed to me verbally it was only done once a year. But as for this print out....no information on battery.

[@maximlanglais9204]

@@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld ok thanks. Seems like my dealer doesn’t know the difference between the overnight smoothing and a dbcam . Maybe they are the same?

[@jurajstevek4788]

@@maximlanglais9204 It is not the same. Smoothing is done every time you charge using your home charger. DBCAM procedure lets your battery capacity to drop close to 10% and then charges to full and estimates the new value of SoH (State of Health). I got same problem with my mitsu 2020 model. When I claimed it first I had to pay 66eur for DBCAM at a dealership (the serviceman at dealership was quite aggressive and me too. At the end of the fight he won 66eur). From that time I bought some tools and I execute DBCAM myself anytime it gets below 70%.

[@Defiantsynthetics]

When its cold the phev is designed to start the engine after you start moving for a few minutes to warm up the engine oil to prepare for a full throttle event , the purpose is so you don't have a thick viscosity cold oil at a wide open throttle event , that could damage the engine. You bought a hybrid not a full electric car. The ev button is for little trips around town as soon as you turn.on the heat to a certain temperature or have a heavy throttle event the engine will turn on regardless of your ev button selection. Try driving in normal mode for a week and see if you get better ev miles.

[@Defiantsynthetics]

This is not like a cell phone when you charge and always get 100% , these vehicles have a BMU that is constantly adapting to each drive cycle , depending on your last drive cycle your next full charge avaliable range will vary.

[@idabustamante7081]

Have to agree w/you . . hopefully a lawyer will step up and guide you . . definitely corporation robbery . . Good Luck Gary 👍 take care 🐾🐶♥️🙋‍♀️

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Thx Ida

[@HelloKLW]

My 2019 Mitsubishi phev has only 19000 miles and it’s battery range has significant mile drops too.

[@fuzooli]

how about the new outlander phev? Is this any different from the previous gen?

[@WarHater-X]

Go to 4.35, Gary mentioned about the problems of new outlander phev.

[@lon1253]

Gary so sorry to hear that Mitsubishi is not helping you. Always enjoyed your PHEV video's. We owned the 2018 and upgraded when the 2023 came out. After selling the 2018 we were quickly wishing we had not upgraded because of the cold battery issues. Our 2018 was perfect. Never had any mechanical problems or cold weather failures. From my experience our dealership knows nothing about the cars. Any time I've tried Mitsubishi Canada they just tell me to contact the dealership for information. So I'm always left in the dark. Someone from HQ in Japan needs to come over and make some serious changes to their Canadian operations. I think there is also someone fairly high up on the food chain in Japan that is making some very poor decisions with the vehicle engineering. I can't see there being any lower level engineers making the decision to not provide a battery heater for climates that have frequent ambient temperatures that are below the operating limitations of the battery. Would be great to hear what the discussions were like in their office about them agreeing to omit the heater. 😡

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes I agree...common sense didn't catch the flight to Canada...LOL

[@maureen14]

You think the engine is kicking on to charge the battery because it knows the battery isn't efficient?

[@lisafruits718]

Sounds like they should replace the battery. You have a warranty. Replacing the battery is no skin off the dealerships nose. I live in the states so maybe it is different but when I have sales or service issues, I go to the General Manager. I feel I then get the answers I want. Best of luck!

[@nickdrouin7142]

Did you try a reset like this: while charging and car on (two presses) remove the negative battery lead, then remove the chage cable. This will turn everything off and resets the BMS. Reconnect the battery lead after 30s, and check with the PHEV watchdog, you should be reset.

[@tibettintin4025]

Hey Gary, exactly same with my 2018 Outlander Phev. They keep overnight, charge hefty fees and range decreases instead of increasing it. I don't know the battery health, full range is only around 26km and since last service, degenerative needle not only moves much like before. My 2018 Nissan Leaf is 10 times better. No more Mitsubishi now on. Thanks for highlighting it.

[@davidboyce4663]

I have a 2014 Chevy volt here in Minnesota. I still get nearly 25 miles on a charge in the winter with 200,000 miles, but the engine will always turn on intermittently for battery and cabin heat at 35 F or below. Long way to say you should consider talking to a lawyer. Maybe contact the attorneys doing that class action - they might have another class on their hands. Good luck, Gary!

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes I'd sign up for a class action at this point...I have argued from day one that the sub par bmu system with the built in software AH loss was fraudulent.

[@maureen14]

Contact your State/Province Attorney General.

[@MrJackattacks]

Same problem with my 2018 Outlander PHEV. The engine starting seconds down the road and then again with ten Kms or so remaining. My wife and I have started calling it EV season when it warms up as this problem seems to stop above 10 degrees celsius. I'm trying to accept it as long as I continue to get 40Km on a warm day. It started after a software update the dealership preformed winter 2019.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

I never had this issue before while many others were complaining about it...but it started about a year and a half ago and I am chalking it up to when the battery hits such a low state that it just can't supply enough power for all functions...but they dont' tell us anything so we will never know.

[@MrJackattacks]

It seems like software to me. I wish they would just release an update and be done with it. Lazy in my opinion. I won't buy another mitsubishi after this either. Too bad as I loved it brand new.

[@segadcsonic]

Same problem; once the engine stops running initially it will kick in for a bit after every 15 minutes. It may be due to that 2019 software update, as some seem to report this issue while others do not.

[@barrybark3995]

do u see many other electric cars there ?

[@hivewatch]

DB Cam only applies to 2019 MY vehicles only in uk with the 13.8 kWh pack. If your capacity is less than 70% within 8 years your dealer can request a replacement lithium ion battery from Mitsubishi. You cannot update the software on a 2018 MY 2.0 12kWh I own this car and have checked at my Mitsubishi dealer. After 6 years I still get 22 Miles of range in Summer.

[@MultiEski]

I just bought 2019 , 46k miles on the clock , i will check my battery when i will get my OBD , so far i got 21miles my first charge when i got this car, after a one longer trip and another charge i got 26miles , i hope this car will last for few years , i didn’t expect all this problems until i was stared searching KZbin :(

[@hivewatch]

You cannot force electric. EV button means EV priority mode.

[@maureen14]

Keep contacting your local news consumer reporters on all the channels. Until somebody is interested in your story.

[@Defiantsynthetics]

When the ev range starts looking off just disconnect the neg battery cable for 5 secs , reinstall and it will be normal again .. I know it sux but that's the bad software that we have to deal with ...with me I'm doing that about every 3 months .. I drive 100 miles a day Monday through Friday

[@bobvandermeer1642]

We have same phev as you 2018 GT Titanium Gray, Best car we've ever owned 126000km just put my original summer tires on, car was supplied with winter tires mounted on steel rims. Absolutely nothing has gone wrong, only normal wear on brakes and rotors, oil and filters changed 6000km synthetic oil. Changed trans oil front and back twice and now thinking of changing generator and clutch cooling oil. We use charger that came stock with car. The biggest difference I find in battery capacity is with using BC HYDRO FAST CHARGERS, a fast charge on them to 80% does not go a long way, had a level 2 charger, it seemed ok then moved, and back to my stock charger. I see on your test drive your temp 3 degree celsius is cool out, my KM range would also be lower but as temp gets warmer my range also increases. I will no be buying another phev or electric car as the increased cost does not equal savings in the long term. I do go on, Sorry

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

I use only a level 2 charger and have wondered if this did in deed speed up the battery degradation process....however the dealership was selling level 2 chargers with the car and a gov't refund at the time I bought mine. I didn't buy it from them...but these cars have lv 1, 2 and 3 chargers on them and nothing stating not to use them.

[@juanhusingz]

Haha we're driving twins. When we had free level 3 charging out here, I charged at every single chance I could - but stopped thereafter. I think that had a big contribution to my initial degradation, and honestly for the amount of time it took to gain a measly 17kms it probably wasn't worth it. I now only level 1 charge. Both the DBcams I did, did not jump me to 100%SOH, my first one up to 90, my second to 80, neither one too far off. That's interesting about the generator oil - I wonder what condition it's in and if replacing it will improve performance. Please update if you ever do. I started using Fuelio to tack my consumption, I find it's more accurate than the watchdog since you type in exactly how much fuel is refilled and the odometer reading.

[@juanhusingz]

I just realized a level three charge (0EV/30% total SOC - 80%) when my battery was new would gain me 17-20km. I think that tracks pretty close, if my 72%SOH gets me into mid-20's when fully charge.

[@christp6777]

Hello sir, I would like to know if you have news for us about your situation . Good luck

[@maureen14]

If you still don't hear from anybody that can help you, take your mitsubishi, park it on the street in front of the dealership you bought it at and hold up a big sign that says "do not buy one of these!".

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

I just did...I parked it on youtube.

[@SingheHoldings]

It is rediculas to know this. I bought my mMitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2018 as a used car from a delership and the milage shows only 35,000 km on it. I also notised the same issue that it dose not provide me the promissed milage and the engine starts charging the EV withn 10km of drive. It is very much frustating to know that Mitsubishi Canada does not do anything. Why don't we all get together as a team and take legal actions against Mitsubishi Canada. They would probebly say that I do not have the worenty since I am the second owner but still I bought the vehicle by looking at what they have published about their PHEV s. Now I understand that they misled us.

[@keithwashington-o5c]

rediculas delership notised dose promissed milage ? Wow, this must be a word record for errors.

[@manjitsandhu572]

Best practice since hybrid is still ice engine so you need to warm up engine and that charge will warmup battery too. I practice this with my toyota hybrid. I only use ev mode when moving for instance someone on parking spot or in alley, mine is only hybrid not phev. But i heard that outlander phev battery is very expensive next to tesla. I dont know the reason for this but currently toyota has best hybrid for this reason, i had honda insight, the full battery pack was $3200usd

[@KashifRaza1]

my 2019 outlander got 74% battery which get chargeg up to 77% around 36.8 Ah. very reliable car with zero issues so for

[@SassyToll]

Thank you I was about to buy one , but after this video , I won't be . Thank you

[@Darrenhd2]

Not sure why it won't do the DBCam, but you could just do a Control Reset, that would get you back up to 40Ah. Your car's engine kicking in more frequently is due to the degraded state. Much of that may be real degradation, but perhaps not all of it as we know the BMU software is rather pessimistic. We have the exact same car as you (2018, but purchased June 2019) and I've done about 9 or 10 control resets and I'm currently sitting at about 34Ah and getting 30-35km of range. I have the MUT software on a laptop and the cable and drive so I can do DBCam, cell smoothing, and Control resets myself. I only have 48000kms on our car though though. I know of one single case where an owner got their 2018 battery replaced. He lives in Hamilton and he fought with Mitsubishi for a year before they finally agreed to replace it. As you know there is no degradation warranty in Canada unlike the UK where it is 70%.

[@segadcsonic]

Similar battery stats to yours. Any bad effects from just doing a reset only and no DBCAM? For example, does it turn on the engine a bit early say if you had some kms left in EV mode? Also, how fast does it degrade after reset only? I imagine it reduces Ah quite fast.

[@Darrenhd2]

@@segadcsonic Nope I haven't noticed any change. So far so good.

[@Dzinbhudist]

Strange that dealeship cannot help you with as in warranty here in europe is 8 or 10 years/160k km and if soh lower than 67%/26ah battery will be replaced. Do not do "battery smoothing" as it is temporary solution just drive and prior last year or 10k km till warranty out ask for battery replacement under warranty.

[@Darrenhd2]

Unfortunately there is no battery capacity warranty in North America, unlike in Europe where there is.

[@moscow771]

Gary, Get a Ford Mach-e. Traded my Mitsubishi SEL PHEV and have not regretted.

[@peterball8241]

Batteries will always loose capacity over time, at least you are still getting some EV driving. I have a 2015 model and bought the kit to do my own battery resets. Last time I checked it was 82% SOH.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

yeah...I am thinking hard about just saying F it and updating it myself....pretty sure half the problem is useless techs...

[@billnagra4054]

What software is that? Could you send a link maybe. Thanks

[@peterball8241]

@@billnagra4054 It was a Mut-3 bought off eBay. Hardware and software in a case to connect a PC to the OBD port.

[@kenyon4us]

Where do you find these kits?

[@peterball8241]

@@kenyon4us I bought mine off eBay but it was a long time ago. Search Mitsubishi MUT3 or MUT iii. Mine came in a metal case with cables and software.

[@JoshuaTaylor-u8x]

Time to cut ties with Mitsubishi I had the same problem as you do traded it in for a 2022 Ford ranger last summer and ate the loss for the trade in good luck Gary

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Nah...going to drive it till it dies...still making savings every year and its going to be my daughters car at some point. doesn't make sense to sell it at a loss and then have to go buy her a used car anyway....

[@juanhusingz]

What's your total kilometers so far? I'm at 72% at 70k. I've done two DBCams, last one was about a year ago that got me to 80% and was only a small gain? Performance has been pretty steady despite that. I could probably push around to 30km in ideal weather in Vancouver. I wonder if the engine kicking in is a different issue - are you watching the live kw or ah draw on the dog to see any other indications of why the engine thinks it's needed? Although the order of utilization has changed for you (where you used to drain EV first and then hybrid the rest of your commute), what sort of effect do you feel it's had on L/100km consumpution based on your commute? You shouldn't have to press the buttons at the same time. 1 press to Start in AUX, hit EV (ensure heaters are off), then start the car.

[@Darrenhd2]

Once your battery has degraded that far the engine will kick in more often. I'm in the same boat in my car. You still have enough capacity where you won't really notice it - yet.

[@scottdenniston7766]

Hi Gary, I don't have mines anymore, TBH I wouldn't purchase one again in fact I bought a Kia Proceed GT Line. Hybrids here in the UK cost a fortune when I bought the PHEV in 2019 it was £41K! My Mazda CX-5 was far superior.

[@mariusfauru]

I do my own DBCAM once a year 😎👍🍺 it's a 150 dollar cost for unlimited resets . My car ha 300k km and still my car goes 35 km ev

[@tibettintin4025]

Wow!!! How and what country n city you live?

[@mariusfauru]

@@tibettintin4025 Hungary Budapest

[@mehrdadkermani]

Hello Gray, I have a PHEV 2018, same with me, the ICE starts as soon as we go. I am sorry to hear what the dealer said and never buy a Mitsubishi again.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

No I won't ever buy another one...lawsuit incoming I guess. They won't offer any credible solutions without a lawsuit unfortunately.

[@romangrabas2875]

Totally understand, i had the PHEV 2018 SE. just under 6years, 153000km, battery was at 56% on Watchdog...Thank god i trading in this garbage vehicle for a much better car

[@hivewatch]

Go to another Mitsubishi dealer immediately. Dont waste any more time at your current dealer. They are totally misinformed. Just contact a local lawyer if you have any more issues.

[@MrXJEROENx]

Garantie op accu van Mitsubishi 8 jaar en of 160.000 km. Als dealer dit niet wil regelen voor je dan ga je naar een andere dealer… je hebt recht op garantie.

[@thebrosat9301]

I have the same issue I will join a class action lawsuit if you start one I live in Sudbury

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Will keep you posted...

[@vevenaneathna]

lol i own a 15 year old chevy volt which gets 50-55 mi (80-88km) range. this is crazy

[@petrikoukkula9066]

I just got rid of the older 2014 model. Now I have a brand new Tesla. No more stress.

[@realfoodsmile]

Don’t buy their PHEV - it is horrible. My vehicle has ~132000 KMS and still has 4 years of warranty left. Currently, I am in the same situation as Garry, the car would start the engine as soon as I start driving even if I preheat the vehicle while it is on charging. Talked to the dealership they are going to do the battery test and cell smoothing procedure, but I am sceptical that it would work. Essentially, they are defrauding their customers and saying NO when there is an issue with the EV system.

[@Darrenhd2]

Just an update on my car, also a 6 year old 2018, but only 54000 kms on it. I did a DBCam and it came back at about 25.5 Ah, so only about 66% of rated capacity. We get about 26-28 kms now like Gary, and the engine kicks in more frequently. So it really sucks. I"m thinking about doing a reset again to get it back up to 38Ah, to see if the engine would not start as much.....but after the DBCam I know the battery is heavily degraded and fooling it to think it has 38Ah may cause more damage to the cells with over-charging. The chemistry in the batteries is really crap and they degrade fast, not to mention the terrible battery management software. Not sure there is anything we can do with no degradation warranty in Canada.

[@teriebrobak532]

i have a 2017 phev, i get 26km when fully charge, i did reset by pressing start button twice without pressing the break pedal, disconected wire to the 12 volt battery, disconected the charging cabel, then connected wire on the 12 battery again. thats it, i got a range of 44km. could drive too work and back home on EV.

[@AndrewSheldon]

sounds like an opportunity for a class action. Just one point - Are you sure its not the wife? Inuit woman wouldn't need heated seats or air-con. You don't mention lawyers. I'd think you've reached that point. Acting in bad faith if no response. Have you tried another dealership? Did you buy it from them? I'm sensing a loophole where 'no one is taking responsibility' for the issue because you bought privately, and thus they don't 'contractually' feel responsible.

[@JonOvalle]

Lawyer about to get you a luxury car and some pocket m money

[@buildingandfixing4397]

you need a new battery. and you need to charge your battery immediately after using it if possible. good battery maintenance means keeping it charged.

[@Darrenhd2]

Actually for the Outlander it has been observed that it is best to let the battery sit for 1-2 hours after driving to allow the cell voltages to settle and stabilize before your charge it again Also it's probably not good for the battery to sit at 100% charge (~4.1V) because that is probably leading to degradation quicker. There appears to be no top buffer on the battery, only a bottom buffer, so having it sit fully charged for long periods over many years is not good. The cell chemistry in the batteries is pretty old, probably from around 2010-2012 when this car was first released in Europe. Sort of like a 1st generation leaf - pretty crappy. The problem is that because the battery is so small you always want to have it charged to 100% so you can get the most out of it and save the money money on gas. But the flip side is having it at 100% all the time will accelerate the degradation. So you can't really win with this car. Not to mention the fact there is no capacity-retention warranty in North America. The car is good for about 3 years in terms of battery health and range and after that it goes downhill pretty quick.

[@buildingandfixing4397]

@@Darrenhd2 bs

[@maureen14]

Sue mitsubishi under the lemon law. Do you have lemon law in Canadaland?

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes and no.....class action will be the next step. I know there are many in the same boat as me..my car is not an anomaly.

[@Elizabeth_Rojas]

Have you tried looking on you tube to find a way to reset it. Maybe disconnect the battery Idk just trying to help. Good luck 💜✌🙏

[@darrensculuca3956]

law suite gary...only way.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yep...I know...

[@keithwashington-o5c]

Suit not suite. Different word. Different meaning.

[@critter9857]

its a money grab, the giv lies and u cannot uodate your battery because they want you to spend money on another car..awaken poor humanity

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes pretty much...

[@judysturm3116]

Hey Gary I hear on the news electrical cars in U S A they catch on fire 🔥. One after another.

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

If only...LOL a quick insurance job? Is that what you're suggesting Judy. OK...but I'm gonna tell em it was your idea...

[@briancole9585]

Sounds like a lemon

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Not the car...the service, the lies and the built in screw the consumer that came with it. And its too bad. What the car does is incredible.

[@udontknoathing7243]

8 minutes in you basically state why it’s gotten to the way it is. You’ve always ran the car depleting the electric battery to 0. Killed the hybrid battery. It was not designed to do what you’ve been doing. Now why would you think it’s a good idea especially in your climate I don’t know. Nevertheless in my opinion they will void your battery warranty saying exactly what I stated above. 😔 I was looking at buying a used one of these. Only drive about 10 miles a day and they’ve gone really cheap. Can pick up a 2014 for about £5000. If I found an honest seller that would tell me it’s getting about 15 miles on a charge I would still consider buying it. However I wouldn’t force electric only on it. Would mind using that litre or two of petrol. Probably that 15 miles would deteriorate eventually… and that’s where the devil lies. I don’t wanna fork out 6k and then be stuck with the thing. Like you said no one will buy this from me. Therefore I feel your pain I would be well frustrated, especially if you’re still under warranty.

[@collinsnyder8682]

My 2018 in Michigan only has 40.2 soh. Mitsubishi usa sucks. Never buy a Mitsubishi

[@aufornvic]

In 2018 I test drove a Mitsubishi PHEV at a mitsubishi dealer, it had been traded in , was a lease car leased from Mitsubishi by a POWER company. The car was a good price, good deal, and like brand new condition. It drove well, I really liked it. I asked them how do I go EV in this car, they said you press this button. It refused to go into EV mode. We tried and tried, this car was not allowing me to even experience the EV mode. I never went back. I realised the car is bullsh!#, Mitsu are not serious about EVs. They want this car to frustrate the HELL out of you so you NEVER buy an EV. My answer is you MUST go TESLA. The difference will be like night and day. There is a reason why the model Y is the best selling car, world wide. Do it.

[@Mark-gk3hh]

Model Y is one of the most unreliable cars in the world.

[@MaryWorks_4923]

Dont buy electric. There is no value in future loss.

[@maureen14]

Did you know that none of the electrical grids can hold an electric car for everybody in the world. Do not buy electric unless it's a golf cart.

[@anthonygomez2267]

Break down and get a Tesla,you can't take it with you!That's what a battery does,It degrades!no matter how they used it as a selling point,you won't get what they told you as far as battery life,my proof is your car!It's proubly what it was engineered to last for,or could be even outlasting the projected life,the manufacturer say one thing,and the car does another!Take Care Gary,And Know It's Time!Elon would be proud of Mitsubishi! JUST SAYIN!

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

LOL I need to fight the good fight...its a matter of principle at this point.

[@anthonygomez2267]

@@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld I understand completely, When your in the right,Principal is worth fighting for!Good Luck My Friend!

[@genethompson8291]

my god gary you got taken when you bought that car a pill of junk and your stuck you can not sell iit who would buy it go after the dealyship and forse them to make it right gene

[@johnbasco007]

buy a gas.. subaru gt turbo.. 1999 mercedes 380 sl 1984.. meyers manx 1835 cc.. never problems.:}

[@GaryReedUnfrequentedWorld]

Yes I've owned 3 Subaru's loved them all turbo forester, Impreza and crosstrek