One thing that comes to mind is stamina. Shooting strong bows repeatedly in a short span will tire your arm and it is the arm you will use to fight after in melee. With a weapon like this, they could have the regular troops firing volleys right before engagement and they wouldn't have a sore weak arm to deal with in combat.
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
I think this is a key point to its deployment
@cactuslietuva3 жыл бұрын
Im not a professional archer or did i shoot longbows, but shooting modern compound bows with some practise at 60-70 lbs is not that hard. And we are talking about farmers or manual laborers that had extra stamina. Also if they where fighting in phalanx formation there is no way the same guy was shooting bow and then went to form complex phalanx formation.
@solarissv7773 жыл бұрын
@@cactuslietuva shooting modern compound bows is so much easier than a classical one (including longbow). I remember going to a range with some friends, nobody had any issues with compound bows, but only few of us could fully draw a classical bow of the same poundage.
@vargenfenrisson11643 жыл бұрын
if you shoot like an archer. fast without the need for aiming it doesnt do too much tearing on the arms
@soulwynd3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Tod for the reply. And to the other points. From personal experience, I used to shoot a modern 80lbs bow and I tried to shoot a 80lbs longbow because I thought it would be similar. Nope, nowhere close. I'd say it's about 3-4 times easier to pull a compound bow. As for firing fast without aiming, the faster you fire the faster you get tired. Ten shots in a row is a lot more tiring than 10 shots waiting a minute between each shot. Just look at the video where Joe Gibbs has to shoot a heavy longbow as fast as he can. Historical archery channel also tried to shoot a 125lbs bow fast. He's clearly tired. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5KZnp2JrsifZq8
@brendanrobertson59663 жыл бұрын
Sir Henry Simmerson: And what makes a good soldier, Sharpe? Sharpe: The ability to fire three rounds a minute in any weather, sir.
@Markell19913 жыл бұрын
I have a cousin at Horseguards!
@bastardacademic3 жыл бұрын
@@Markell1991 he who loses the king's colours, loses the king's friendship!
@SpiderGeometry3 жыл бұрын
MAJOR LENNOX ANSWERED WITH HIS LIFE, SIR.
@samrodian9193 жыл бұрын
@@SpiderGeometry did you have to look it up like I did or was it from memory? If it was from memory you are not a Sharpe afficionardo, but a full blown expert!
@daverogers90383 жыл бұрын
The phrase "shooting from the hip" might be older than we first imagined.
@cz67743 жыл бұрын
It's an intuitive weapon. If you released a couple of hundred practice shots into a target your brain will figure out the geometry just like it does when you're driving a car. Imagine 3 person teams, Loader, Handler, Shooter ...
@NotACutie3 жыл бұрын
Finally, a Crew-served crossbow!
@corwin323 жыл бұрын
I really, _really,_ want to believe that your “gut feeling” was an intentional pun.
@ShadowDragon86853 жыл бұрын
I would honestly love to see a follow-up to this where you revise the Gastraphetes design such that you still get that easy load - where the user puts their weight into the machine to cock it rather than muscling or cranking the bowstring back - but incorporate shoulder-stock aiming and cover usage. Just as an experiment, like, "if Tod found himself in Ancient Greece and somehow able to speak Ancient Greek, how could he earn his keep by improving weapons the locals already have, simply using innovations they haven't discovered yet."
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
That would be a nice series - thanks
@ShadowDragon86853 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop It _really_ would be - and an interesting thought experiment. "Knowing what I know about the history of technology, how can I improve upon what is already being done/possible in (a given era) using only the tools and materials locally available." Carved shoulder stocks for crossbows would be one simple improvement that could be implemented _immediately_ over the simple squared wooden ones they used in most of the medieval period, wouldn't it?
@henninghesse99103 жыл бұрын
Well, if you leave plywood and rubberband out of it, sounds like a nice cooperation with a big guy from southern germany.
@joek6003 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop I would watch that! Greetings from Athens!
@AdlerMow3 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop Tod, I think this was used as fortress defense weapon. It would benefit tremendously from a swivel. Push it against a wall to cock it, put it on a swivel, aim from eye level. Snipe the besiegers at will.
@HistoricalWeapons3 жыл бұрын
excellent video. I wish I had the craftsmanship skills like you. I just wished you would of mentioned chinese crossbows when you said "pretty much the earliest crossbow", or simple add the words "in the western world"
@markdennis2543 жыл бұрын
the chinese crossbows had large quantity of archeological evidence, the gastrophetes does not have physical evidence. the chinese crossbows were mass produced. the greeks were not. the earliest archeological evidence of the chinese crossbow is earlier than the gastrophete's supposed dating. so why would tod say the gastrophetes is the earliest?
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jack and yes a very good point. I will be honest and say that to my shame I am Euro-centric in that my knowledge base is European and I know little about Chinese crossbows so I forgot about them here. So yes I should have said "in the Western world". But actually isn't the origin of the Chinese crossbow about the same date or does it predate this?
@HistoricalWeapons3 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop based on the burial of Qufu the earliest bronze trigger excavated is 6th century bc approximately. I’m not sure if we found physical archeological evidence of the gastrophetes.
@HistoricalWeapons3 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop but very likely the earliest crossbow is in Stone Age possiblly Africa if you count animal traps
@nixhound3 жыл бұрын
I think you have my favorite intro of any youtubers. It's short, shows a bit what you do, and ends with a recognizable symbol. Love it
@danrush883 жыл бұрын
*sherwp ding*
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
Exactly! It always struck me how good it is
@rogerlafrance63553 жыл бұрын
Using a defensive wall as a rest would work and perhaps a deterrent seeing a them crossbows sitting up there.
@lukesheridan46233 жыл бұрын
wall could also be used to lean the gastraphetes on to load
@Vespuchian3 жыл бұрын
A very clever design really. Given what I know about Hellenic levies, you could have a whole cohort of 'archers' trained to use these in an afternoon, firing them off in volleys on command by their unit leader, and they'd use the same ammunition - and maybe even the same bows - as the trained archers firing without the need for a stock. A very effective way of rapidly expanding the useful number of archers for your citizen militia on short notice.
@lindybeige3 жыл бұрын
We know it was shot from the belly because of the name? I don't see that this is the case. You load it with your belly - that's enough for the name. How about having the curved loading part on your belt, and a protrusion from it that fits into a recess on the stock, such that you 'release' it to shoot from the shoulder?
@lambjalfrezi3 жыл бұрын
Are there any contemporary artistic representations of it in use? That might offer a clue.
@omariscovoador74863 жыл бұрын
I thought of the same thing, there could be a way for it to be released from the shoulder
@nigelmacbug66783 жыл бұрын
A short spear used as a monopod so shoot from head height?
@omariscovoador74863 жыл бұрын
@@nigelmacbug6678 i think it would weird to properly load it them, too much time wasted
@TrollDragomir3 жыл бұрын
Another disadvantage shooting from the belly has is that you can't seek cover on battlements very well that way. When shooting from the shoulder only the very top of your silhouette needs to be sticking out. With this you'd have to expose yourself vertically much more when shooting from the walls. We don't know many things about this weapon, like for example we don't know if there was a metal holder that keeps the arrow on. If there was, it could've been shot vertically, with the indent of the stock resting on the shoulder. A bit unintuitive, but I wouldn't rule it out.
@beganfish3 жыл бұрын
As someone who is trying to make a reasonably accurate and authentic tabletop RPG system, every time you do a video one weapons like these and time things, it makes it so easy to accurately create different ranged weapons, thanks for this.
@Gabrong3 жыл бұрын
We are in the same ship right now :D only difference that I am also using these for a pc game.
@beganfish3 жыл бұрын
@@Gabrong Nice!
@josephburchanowski46363 жыл бұрын
Would characters be allowed to make a slingshot out of dandelion rubber, or are only historical weapons allowed?
@beganfish3 жыл бұрын
@@josephburchanowski4636 It's a ttrpg, the players can do anything as long as they can convince the GM.
@Gabrong3 жыл бұрын
@@beganfish that is the beauty of these games :)
@MrFiddleedee3 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of siege crossbows, something tells me this was meant to be deployed from a battlement or some sort of hardpoint that enemy infantry couldnt reach easily.
@tullochgorum63233 жыл бұрын
Shooting down from the hip over a battlement? How would that work?
@henninghesse99103 жыл бұрын
@@tullochgorum6323 Depends on the battlement. Ancient walls were not constructed like medieval once. As Tod mentioned same look often points towards simillar use.
@kovona3 жыл бұрын
I read it was originally invented to snipe and counter archers on walls during siege, as it outranged the hand bows used at the time.
@Oquasinus3 жыл бұрын
It's cool to see the Gastraphetes again, this time in more depth! Your 2015 video on it was how I found your channel, and I'm glad I stuck around :)
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
So am I - thanks for hanging in there
@IsaacKuo3 жыл бұрын
There's another way to do "belly release" - you lie on your back, and prop the bow on your toes (or maybe bent knee). Your right hand is in a good position to operate the trigger, above your belly. You can sight straight down the bolt at the target.
@ChristopherLaHaise3 жыл бұрын
I had heard of bows where you lie on your back to pull and fire - hmm.
@theghosthero61733 жыл бұрын
@@ChristopherLaHaise pretty popular in Uruguay and Southern Brazil among certain groups of native people
@darthplagueis133 жыл бұрын
@@theghosthero6173 I mean, it sort of makes sense. It's probably easier to aim and allows you to handle greater drawweights because you are pulling it back with stronger muscles. The downside of course is that you can literally only use it as a sniping weapon where you lie in wait until a target presents itself. In an open field battle you might need to maneuver around a lot, so laying down in order to shoot is just impractical. But if it's mostly for hunting and/or ambushes, I can see it working really well.
@theghosthero61733 жыл бұрын
@@darthplagueis13 yeah it was for bird hunting and to set roof of village houses on fire during surprise attacks
@aledwadkin17363 жыл бұрын
Three shots a minute? Any weather? That's soldiering!
@benm59133 жыл бұрын
This is a severely under rated comment.
@lesliefranklin18703 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting comparing Ancient Greek and Ancient Chinese crossbows, including their timeframes of invention and use.
@-Zevin-3 жыл бұрын
I second this. Chinese Crossbows date back quite a bit more. They were already using Crossbows in China for 300 years by the time the Gastraphetes was invented.
@calvingreene903 жыл бұрын
An 80 pound bow that a scribe can shoot repeatedly without lots of practice to build his arm muscles up to it sounds useful to me.
@justicar53 жыл бұрын
Especially for dropping bolts onto a phalanx, when 'somewhere in the same postcode' is accurate enough.
@doriangray23473 жыл бұрын
Yes that’s a good point. I cannot pull 80 very well for certain.
@MrBottlecapBill3 жыл бұрын
@@doriangray2347 Even if you can pull a bow of equal power or more.........how long can you pull it? This device you could run for hours of continuous fire without suffering too badly I would guess. Of course that may have been it's downfall. IT was too easy to shoot........the cost of bolts adds up too quick. :D
@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse3 жыл бұрын
You could also entice the maidens to fire a few shots
@ulrichkalber90393 жыл бұрын
@@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse if you shoot over a wall with a lot of shooters the enemy would have thought that the castle is well defended by a lot of men, but in truth every woman or heavy enough child could shoot it.
@Scout8873 жыл бұрын
it has a safety advantage: the bow is not on face-level !
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
But it kinda is at bollocks level tho
@fmacdonald35593 жыл бұрын
We finally know where the expression "shooting from the hip" comes from, ancient Greece :)
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
Yeah! Hipfire always struck me as weird no one shoots from their actual hip lol
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
@Mike - _ - Litoris that's not how language works man lol
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
@Mike - _ - Litoris Do you really want a response or are you going to keep being fascetious?
@seanjoseph86373 жыл бұрын
What makes a good soldier? "The ability to fire three rounds a minute sir"...Richard Sharpe.
@Jixxor3 жыл бұрын
Boss, I can't come in - I got a severe case of Gastraphetes!
@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse3 жыл бұрын
What’s wrong with your feet😆
@Heinzpeteromfg3 жыл бұрын
made me smile
@euansmith36993 жыл бұрын
"I've got shooting pains in my stomach" :D I guess this weapon could lead to a hernia.
@IMarcaI3 жыл бұрын
It does seem a lot less tiring than drawing a war bow, so maybe it would allow your archers to keep firing in prolonged engagements?
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
That is a definite point
@kylemcgill45803 жыл бұрын
Maybe one of the advantages is that you can shoot a heavier bow for a lot longer since you use your whole body weight to draw it? Might be useful in something like a siege where you might be shooting all day
@doriangray23473 жыл бұрын
I agree. When you are extremely fatigued from combat and no sleep, this is fantastic.
@decode.6663 жыл бұрын
Every time I have a training session at work. Me: "Pretty much gobbledygook."
@niros96673 жыл бұрын
Great video Todd, always fascinated by ancient technology.
@fakjbf31293 жыл бұрын
If you could make a mechanism to rotate the rest 90 degrees, you could have it horizontal for the loading and then turn it to shoot from your shoulder when firing.
@DrBunnyMedicinal3 жыл бұрын
My thought as well!
@shaidrim3 жыл бұрын
If you think about it, you can make a removal cap like the windlass have to apply at the end of the stock, so you put it on when drawing and remove it when shooting, and the stock will be the same of a crossbow.
@-Anarion-3 жыл бұрын
@@shaidrim your idea is really the smart, efficient and elegant solution. I've been thinking ways to rotate, compensate for sights, another design e.t.c, and really all you need is to separate the stock and the back "bow". A simple hole would do the trick. Man, I love simple solutions. Bravo and thanks.
@TraditionalAnglican3 жыл бұрын
@@-Anarion- - Why? They already had a simple solution, one that almost anyone could do & could maintain a Rate of Fire of 3-4 bolts per minute for as long as you had bolts to shoot.
@-Anarion-3 жыл бұрын
@@TraditionalAnglican improved accuracy
@davidbundgaard3 жыл бұрын
What a nice crossbow. The ancients really were awesome.
@philipsscrewdriver5543 жыл бұрын
Regarding the Gastraphetes, I have the feeling they invented a chest-height stand, where they can just rest the body on top of it, rest the butt of the bow to their chest, and shoot like a small ballista.
@benedict69623 жыл бұрын
Stick it on a pavise, yeah
@CosmicDuck4943 жыл бұрын
Makes a lot of sense. You don't have to rest it against your chest, just hold it by the grips. A bit like a WWI era machine gun with spade grips. Tie a cord to the release lever and loop it around your fingers, so you can keep both hands on the grips.
@sleepy_Dragon3 жыл бұрын
What's speaking against holding it up and aiming along the arrow?
@gabrielinostroza49893 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same, if you propped it up on something, say, the rampart of a wall, and used the handlebars like you'd move a modern machinegun around, you could keep it aligned to your eye while shooting it.
@andrewsock62033 жыл бұрын
I’m guessing this was used for defending strongholds so a rampart or wall would be there already. In the field they would have a shield board to cover behind and the shield probably doubled as the stand.
@TyLarson3 жыл бұрын
Heron is awesome. He invented or at least wrote about automated plays using a sort of analog computer using knots and things like puppets and marbles over drums to mimic thunder and grains for rains.
@joek6003 жыл бұрын
And used steam for the first system of automated doors
@spudgn2 жыл бұрын
Always a good watch. Thanks Todd
@5chr4pn3ll3 жыл бұрын
About the shoulder stock, just look at early firearms. It took quite a bit of time before those were fired from the shoulder, so to me it makes sense.
@nbsmith1003 жыл бұрын
If you think about it, you're using a right triangle setup- your body the vertical line, the bow the horizontal, and your arm the diagonal.... so once you get consistent where you anchor the bow on your body i'd wager you could get pretty accurate.
@marcusmckenzie95282 жыл бұрын
could adapt it to fire from the shoulder like an RPG-7, with front forgrip underneath... This looks amazing! Time for a new Project for myself :D TY Tod, Love all your work!
@tengwean61823 жыл бұрын
Very interesting piece. I think I’ll incorporate it into my RPG world
@euansmith36993 жыл бұрын
Ogre Gut Archers wielding siege weapon sized Gastraphetes? Cool :)
@SFish-wr4kh3 жыл бұрын
@@euansmith3699 I like the idea but I wonder if regular wood would handle that kind of compression/weight
@manfredconnor31943 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Nice. Thanks for this Tod.
@Kanner1113 жыл бұрын
Working out that the earth is round and getting an approximation of its size? Child's play. Stirrups and shoulder-stocks? Next level genius. It's amazing the stuff that people can solve when they put their minds to it, and then also the things that just don't get thought of for hundreds or thousands of years.
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
It is so strange and pockets weren't invented until around 1600, amazing.
@euansmith36993 жыл бұрын
Holey Jeans, Todman! That's a cracking piece of carpentry, especially the ratchet, and I love Tod's "gut reaction" on the Gastraphetes. That was a great, fun and interesting video; as per usual. :)
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@kevjp59873 жыл бұрын
I imagine a cross bow could be built with a twisting stock giving the ease of loading from this and the accuracy of a shoulder fire
@bobito89973 жыл бұрын
This is clearly the bow for me. Not only do I have the weight to span it to it's full capacity, my ample belly would also mean I'd be shooting from a slightly shorter distance. Win, win.
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
Love it!
@Unsensitive3 жыл бұрын
When you had a wall of flesh marching or running towards you.. fine accuracy probably wasn't needed.
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
True
@robertroy14353 жыл бұрын
Love the info...and your shirt!
@calvingreene903 жыл бұрын
The last time I was this early the gastraphetes was a cutting edge weapon.
@orsonincharge48793 жыл бұрын
Last time I was this early , I turned up at a shop before it opened . It started the day before , my alarm clock had stopped working . I assumed it was the batteries , so I decided to go to the shop the next day and buy some new ones , but as my alarm clock had stopped working I had to stay up all night so that I was awake when it was time to go to buy my NOBODY CARES
@glenwaldrop81663 жыл бұрын
With a little modification I could see that working as a quick load system for a modern crossbow. I've got half a mind to try to make one, though mine would be more similar to the old one than a modern one.
@grantfitz20473 жыл бұрын
Why not up on the ribs under the pectoral with the hand under and pointer finger extended towards the target for stance? It would seem to make the most sense for instinctive shooting I think.
@TheGameFilmGuruMan3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if you were to rotate the belly loading push bar to one side or the other maybe 30 degrees or so or simply make it swivel, if that would allow for shoulder firing.
@benjaminotalora3633 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the exact same thing. I copied the stance with a broomstick, and you have to hunch over somewhat to hold and aim the weapon from the hip. Bringing it up closer to the chest gives you much better stability both from not having to hunch and the harder surface the ribs provide.
@blastbar3 жыл бұрын
Gorgeous workmanship as always, thank you for the regular uploads!
@quirty8643 жыл бұрын
Gonna need ya to show us how well it shoots using a rest. Maybe a sharp Y stick that could be thrust into the ground. You do good work by the way.
@CultureStress3 жыл бұрын
Wait, we only know it was shot from the hip because of the name? That seems pretty flimsy to me. What if it's called the "belly bow" because you press your stomach against it when you load? Or something like that.
@lukasdimmler26223 жыл бұрын
If you use a pump and want to achieve high pressure you would also use the technique of using your body weight to pump by pushing with the belly. I think the way Tod is pushing it is not the most effective.
@philbest3 жыл бұрын
It's not a "belly bow" though: it's a "belly releaser". That's why there's a lot of certainty about how it was shot.
@hifikameli3 жыл бұрын
I think he was pretty clear that nobody can know how the thing was actually used and that shooting it from the belly is just an educated guess.
@Sublimeoo3 жыл бұрын
i was imagining more chest fired than shoulder fired
@loupiscanis94493 жыл бұрын
Thank you , Tod .
@deadjester3 жыл бұрын
This was a weapon created at a time where tightly massed phalanxes, centuries and cohorts were employed. Being able to accurately loose 3 lethal arrows into a large, wide and very deep body of enemies, and do so with little training seems a very valuable tool. Even better as a walled settlement defence tool. You're bound to hit someone, and if you can aim at a head or legs, the large Aspis and Scuta used by your enemy are not of much use. The smaller hide shields of the levy troops even less.
@dredlord473 жыл бұрын
I mean, the name "belly bow" doesn't necessarily mean anything at all, much like how the Type 89 "knee mortar" is *NOT* fired off of ones knee, unless you want to shatter your knee, I suppose.
@jamesharding34593 жыл бұрын
The knee(ling) mortar was an ingeniously simple little weapon.
@jimmehjiimmeehh97483 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the knee mortar would actually destroy your knee, considering it's only throwing the grenade out to a max of around 500 yards. As far as I know it's never actually been recorded as fired from the knee to see if it is possible or not.
@dredlord473 жыл бұрын
@@jimmehjiimmeehh9748 It would shatter your knee, yes.
@zebdawson36873 жыл бұрын
The knee mortar was fired while TAKING a knee (usually), not from the knee, the name makes perfect sense. So by that logic, the “belly bow” was fired from a prone position laying on your belly, which makes little to no sense. I agree it might not have been FIRED from the belly (hip shot style), but i would definitely wager that it used the belly to work the mechanism, much like Tod demonstrates in the video (but, as was pointed out several times, we have no ACTUAL idea how it was it used. It could’ve been mounted as an artillery piece for all we know). I just think using modern naming schemes from entirely different languages (the Type 89 being a Japanese weapon with an American nickname) to try to make sense of ancient weapons or tools is pretty foolhardy, unless you’re an expert in Ancient Greek (a language that’s even different from its modern counterpart), which I don’t think any of us here are. Hell, the Germans call gloves “hand shoes” (Handschuhe), does that mean they wear shoes on their hands? Just an example of how meaning can be lost in translation and that’s a very modern example with modern languages. Etymology is a fickle beast sometimes.
@Galatz_Tirah3 жыл бұрын
@@zebdawson3687 that's not at all what the name implies. Because that's pretty much how you operate EVERY infantry mortar. You don't want to be anywhere near the muzzle end when a mortar finally drops on the firing pin. The name "knee mortar" itself only exists within the anglosphere and has absolutely nothing to do with it's original designation, naming or reputation by the Japanese. Knee mortar was called so because US GIs thought that the shape of the bottom of the mortar was meant to clasp your hip, right at the knee, hence calling it knee mortar. The reality is the shaped bottom plate was designed to be secured to fallen tree trunks, sandbags, rocks and other points that could take the brunt of the recoil safely and securely, without flying off anywhere. If anything it's more probable you would lean, doing so, than actually take a knee, as your hand is still supposed to control the elevation of the muzzle. Please learn what you're talking about, before making a bogus analogy.
@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse3 жыл бұрын
Looking at the cross bow I was going to suggest as an alternative to the cross brace is having a belly belt with a pocket which could be used to press the crossbow main spar in, thus allowing shoulder height aiming.
@Nicmadis3 жыл бұрын
I could picture a long wall with two lines of townspeople with crossbows behind cover such as on a wall, first line are the ones who have shown they have a knack for hitting with the crossbow, behind them stands another line of the people who might only have a knack for eating and drinking that continually reloads, with more people or children running around with new baskets of bolts. The rate of fire would probably be rather impressive with a low skill ceiling. The fact something like it seems to have existed does not mean there were not skilled hunters with bows on the wall as well, but it might have been a weapon to get the most out of the available people, and maybe exactly what was needed when it was created.
@blairbuskirk54603 жыл бұрын
Another advantage of crossbows over traditional bows in warfare is the ability to discharge the weapon while prone.
@jimmehjiimmeehh97483 жыл бұрын
If you put the bit you brace against your stomach on a pivot so it can rotate 360 it would basically function like a shoulder stock too while retaining its original function. And it seems like a simple enough thing for someone to try.
@theMindwalker3 жыл бұрын
I could see this being used with a swivel mount on a tower. So...it's kind of like a mini-ballista that a soldier could shoot/reload by himself. (So after reloading, you set it back on the swivel mount, fire, take it off, load it again...I could see it working.) Cool video.
@kaziglubey44553 жыл бұрын
Though this definitely seems to be somewhat lacking in accuracy and maybe not as powerful, it seems that it can essentially fire 3 times as fast as your windlass crossbow. I could see this being a sort of midway point, in that it is easy for the average levee soldier to learn how to use this effectively, like a windlass crossbow, but still be able to shoot several times in a minute like a regular bow. Accuracy suffers a bit vs a regular crossbow but the greater rate of shooting makes up for it. If you consider Tod's scenario of 5 guys trying to snipe a phalanx leader, they could even stagger their fire slightly to ensure that there was constantly a bolt in the air, or fire off several quick volleys and then hop on horses and flee. It could also make having reloaders even more effective. It definitely seems like a fun weapon at any rate, particularly since I am fat.
@WalterBurton3 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one terrified that Tod's going to rip off one of his fingers?
@andygas1451 Жыл бұрын
It took the name from "gastro" (meaning stomach) not because they released the bow from there, but because they used their stomach to arm it. The problem that the Greeks had to resolve was that they wanted bows that were better than those of their enemies, who were masters in archery (such as the Scythians, Persians, etc.). What they believed was that all archers were limited by the distance they could draw (due to the construction of the human arm) and the amount of force they could exert. Generally, one cannot draw more than half of their body weight. "Gastro" means stomach. They used their stomach to press/arm the bow, utilizing their entire body weight, and by adding the arming extension, they increased the draw distance of the bow. Thus, they succeeded in overcoming the limitations of draw distance and draw weight through this invention.Was extremely powerful but less accurate.Usualy they releasing massive voleys of arrows against enemy consentrations.
@martienvandenberg51813 жыл бұрын
I think they would work great on a ship. Greek trireme were open on top, lob some arrows in there, hit some rowers and they are screwed. A boat like that dependent on the rhythm of the rowers.
@viking6703 жыл бұрын
These ancient weapons will all start to come in quite handy real soon the way things are going, governments like canada australia/nz and of course the uk are all hell bent on disarming us !
@munkie6673 жыл бұрын
I i enjoyed the opening. Just going to go get that...
@alexandermartinez13183 жыл бұрын
Very interesting and mysterious stuff! Love to see those results! I think your assumptions are correct
@d33b333 жыл бұрын
Dutch Marines used to put their rifle butt in the center of their chest, right on the chestbone, when clearing rooms in the confines of a building. If you keep your head straight, you naturally hit what you're looking at. Try the gastra on your chest, maybe.
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
Really? That sounds like a quick way to getting totally winded
@markberlanga6375 Жыл бұрын
Also tod needs to check out the video on the roman bullets used in their war slings.
@nestorasbellas66043 жыл бұрын
Indeed gastra (γαστηρ) means belly in greek (ancient) Aphetes (αφέτης) means releaser. We call the man that shoots the gun to let the runners know they should start running αφέτη. Funny i never herd of this one before! Very interesting presentation, thank you!
@fernandodeurquidi93893 жыл бұрын
With the problems you had with elevation when aiming shooting from the hip, they may have adjusted for elevation by the location they braced the gastraphetes against themselves. Moving it up and down their belly. This way they would be able to keep their support arm consistent while adjusting for elevation. Instead of shooting from your hip try bracing it against the bottom of your sternum while standing straight on.
@schonnj3 жыл бұрын
I interesting modification would be a swiveled or even removable belly bar. It would defeat the name, but it would allow the user to sight down the bow better.
@jagrench623 жыл бұрын
This shooting is much like instinctive shooting with a normal bow. It is all about muscle memory. It is like shooting a subgun from the hip with practice one can easily engage target at moderate ranges even in the dark.
@Strattios3 жыл бұрын
Warfare of the period wasn't short on manpower and relied on large formations (think phalanx or legion). This accuracy seems more than adequate.
@Zbigniew_Nowak Жыл бұрын
I know it's completely unhistorical, but I would marry this weapon with a periscope sight. This would allow you to aim with the front sight and rear sight. You could use an old camera for this - there the photographer was looking from above. Of course, a modern camera with a movable LCD display would probably be good for this purpose as well.
@antitankgunguy31922 жыл бұрын
The draw length on it probably gives it a deceptively good bolt speed compared to similarly or heavier weighted bows of later periods. Very cool piece.
@seanc33623 жыл бұрын
Got an ad for an insane modern crossbow before your vid Tod. 🤣
@GunFunZS3 жыл бұрын
When I look at that I feel like the aiming device I would want for kind of a massed archer type role, would be basically a plumb bob was a protractor next to it or perhaps a string that would come taught when it was held at the right elevation. Another way of achieving a similar result would be to have a string that hangs down to just touch the ground when you're holding it about right. Or a longer strap that you step on. If you're trying to hold and release hold and release a lot of shots just stepping on the same spot of the strap every time on the same knot perhaps would allow you to hold the consistent elevation shot to shot.
@Paledomain3 жыл бұрын
You can train crossbownmen called gastraphetes from the greek fortress in age of mythology the video game, quite the nice reference...
@nickrider52203 жыл бұрын
Great channel Tod, bringing parts of our history to life. Not interested in modern firearms etc, but the skill our ancestors showed and skills they had to learn were pretty amazing - war, unfortunately, has always been a big part of our history, very interesting though.
@justanothercaptain65663 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. I think that weapon was perfectly suited for its era of warfare. It’s their version of “artillery”. I think that would have been an area weapon. Think about 400 conscripts firing those at max range into massed infantry? Even with those massive Greek Sheilds it would have caused some casualties, and definitely slowed their movement or broke sections of their formations. So I don’t think sniping was a primary consideration. Just an added bonus. Thanks again. Cheers 🍻
@rikospostmodernlife3 жыл бұрын
great video as always sir. By the way, have you considered replicating the ancient (regular) chinese crossbow for a future video?
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
It will be done one day, but so many films
@rikospostmodernlife3 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop well if it will be done, that's good news :) Also, thank you so much for helping us educate ourselves in tese themes, you and the 'comunity of the sword' are a treasure of humanity.
@sindarpeacheyeisacommie86883 жыл бұрын
Todd, you're likely larger in size than most ancient Greeks. That might help the dynamic of loading the gastraphetes.
@StergiosMekras3 жыл бұрын
To think that at 1.67m I'd be considered tall among my ancestors...
@FrejthKing3 жыл бұрын
held up surprisingly well for such an old crossbow
@benedict69623 жыл бұрын
I can only see this as a saturation weapon: relatively quick firing, high poundage, easy to aim in the general direction of the enemy. Slap big, chonky bolts on an even bigger bow, and you might not even need iron tips to unhorse a charging cavalry.
@krissteel40743 жыл бұрын
When I was a lad, one of my favourite books of all time was Warfare in the Classical Age (pub 1980) which had all manner of these weapons in them, so it really does me good to see actual, working reproductions of them. I tried making a few over the years with rather mixed results, but your gastraphetes is simply spectacular. I don't really make repro's myself, too busy making kitchen knives for a living :)
@tods_workshop3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I will look it up
@krissteel40743 жыл бұрын
@@tods_workshop Warfare in the Classical World: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weapons, Warriors, and Warfare in the Ancient Civilizations of Greece and Rome ISBN 10: 0312856148 ISBN 13: 9780312856144 Sorry got the World mixed up with Age, it was late and I was tired! Still seems to be around in some numbers 2nd hand
@uppitywhiteman67973 жыл бұрын
You have a nice setup there. Ever thought about nice range markers to help us judge distance. Cameras distort.
@HabarudoD3 жыл бұрын
First of all, thanks so much for going through the trouble of captioning these videos, its such an underappreciated thing, and its SO helpful! Could one not technically put this square on the chest, to elevate it for better accuracy? Shooting from the hip seems to be so forcefully limiting ones ability to reliably aim just to follow the "belly" part of the name, which may only refer to the loading method..🤔
@gianlucaborg1953 жыл бұрын
I find the interesting prospect of a fort or city wall having various of these positioned or mounted for citizen militia to use to defend against a army that is stronger particularly if there bolts were tipped perhaps to breach shields particularly wicket ones or armour being rather interesting. A very interesting expose and tour of the weapon and history of it. I found your channel through Modern History TV.
@Smallathe3 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Thanks!
@terrencebeers71053 жыл бұрын
Interesting as always. Thanks
@samhughes-martin71043 жыл бұрын
Great video! I'm curious how your technique and accuracy would change/improve after a week or so of practice.
@PotatoePriest3 жыл бұрын
One thing that interests me is the tilted shield versus arrows or bolts. Is it better to angle the shield then to take it straight on. I suppose it would maybe benefit you. Metal shields would definitely see a huge benefit. I appreciate your work keep at it
@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse3 жыл бұрын
Given the overhead angle of defenders on battlements it’s likely most shots were at a marked angle to the attackers shields.
@PotatoePriest3 жыл бұрын
@@Arachnoid_of_the_underverse I do get that they fire arrows that way but I was just wondering out of curiosity. Never saw any tests done so why not make a inquiry.
@cmdrsocks3 жыл бұрын
In that configuration, it seems natural to shoot un-aimed at an upwards angle, ideal for shooting from the top of a wall at advancing enemies. You could easily shoot from behind cover. The minimal training required means that everyone in town is suddenly an archer, men women and children of all ages, not just your trained soldiers.
@ivyssauro1233 жыл бұрын
If it had a little pivot on the back piece, the "belly stock", that allowed it to rotate, it would be a perfect weapon cause you could use that same stock shape to load it with the belly and shoot it with the shoulder with a simple twist!
@kellyobanion47282 жыл бұрын
This looks like a cousin of the Chinese repeating crossbow. 400 B.C. according to Wikipedia. Supposedly used as an artillery type of deterrent, mostly ineffective but could rain down a lot of bolts.
@ilari903 жыл бұрын
Seems like that guy in that artists depiction in the beginning is going to get some of his bolts dropped off that quiver in that position soon.
@Catbat-ud8xx3 жыл бұрын
It would be really good to see how you make your crossbow strings Tod 👍
@gordonlawrence14483 жыл бұрын
There is a vid on the channel for that.
@Catbat-ud8xx3 жыл бұрын
@@gordonlawrence1448 oh where is it?
@BazookaJoe10283 жыл бұрын
Hah! My mother in law would be so effective at using this.
@Emil_Nielsen3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, how did i not se a comment like this coming!
@BluJean66923 жыл бұрын
Plot twist: she's only slightly heavy and an expert crossbow-markswoman lmao
@Emil_Nielsen3 жыл бұрын
@@BluJean6692 and the next family dinner end up in a medieval war
@FanOMisery3 жыл бұрын
You know what they say about future wives.....
@velazquezn3 жыл бұрын
She can probably load more than one at the same time.
@charlesphillips45753 жыл бұрын
If shooting at long range, the elevation could put the bolt tip at eye height even with the bow on the belly. Take a liberal definition of “belly” and the bow could be rested on the chest, for shorter range shooting. Tod's mistake shouldering the bow was that he adopted the modern crossbow/rifle stance. Stand square on to the enemy and the back of the bow could be high on the chest, even on the shoulders(both of them).
@jebise11262 жыл бұрын
now im waiting for ancient compound crossbow - i mean it could exist for sure
@tomtruesdale69013 жыл бұрын
I can see maybe 100 + men armed with that weapon could cause a bit of trouble for enemy troops when firing in mass volleys. It would cause them to have to form a shield wall or spread apart to make less of a target both of which would reduce the effectiveness of that unit for a short time.
@bokvarv19263 жыл бұрын
Shoot with the "handle" to your belly then squat your knees, then you can indeed shoot from at lest limited cover, maybe even from behind bushes and the like