GAUGE THE ISSUE: Fake Railwaymania

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Any views or opinions expressed in this video are those of Chris Eden-Green. These are made without intention of offending anyone.
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[@brendanmcstephens1828]

This reminds me of when they said that the polar express was built by Baldwin, but being based of the Perre Marquette 1225, it should of been built by the Lima Locomotive Works, the scene made me laugh because the nerd that reminded me of my self that said that.

[@jameskinglion]

I work on the Milwaukee Road 261 last year I remember hearing a kid say "Look It's the Real Polar Express" I quietly laugh and said nothing to destroy that moment.

[@pennsy6755]

Actually Baldwin *did* make an S3 Berkshire! Not for the Pere Marquette, but the Erie

[@NickelPlateDave]

The Nerd was altering back and forth between The Seria No 3 which whistle was used for the 1225 so the kid was altering facts

[@VT29steamtrain]

He should have said Lima locomotive works S-2 NKP berkshire no. 765

[@bladeobrian2144]

@@jameskinglion one time I got to see UP 844, and my mom thought she was the polar express engine....

[@marty6779]

2:30 Fun fact : the locomotive that is portrayed in that movie (DR 62 015) actually still exists and was serviceable at the time.

[@iron1349]

I think that maybe use a real locomotive for scenes where it's just running around, and crash a fake (that looks identical)

[@the4tierbridge]

I actually just saw one of The Lone Ranger trains TODAY in a beer commercial on KZbin. Both prop trains from that movie have been preserved, repainted, and are loaned out for advertising.

[@generaltophat5877]

I mean to be fair, the trains made for Loan Ranger still exist on a heritage railway in California :P

[@parkerproductions4546]

One film that has one of the best film scores ever, Out of Africa (1985), used a studio built steamer in the opening sequence, but it was actually driven at the back by a diesel loco disguised as a boxtruck (now where have we seen that before? ;) )

[@connorchidgey7783]

The most annoying one for me was the correct coaches and station architecture set for World War Two in Narnia- The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, but the Manor class hauling the train (7802: Bradley Manor) is in British Railways Livery

[@ajaxengineco]

Can't believe no-one noticed that until now, at least 3205 at the beginning was correct.

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

Wait what- i watched it and didn't notice lol-

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

I spotted it the moment she appeared on the screen! There were other errors too - no blackout screening on the cab, station nameboards left standing, no headlight masks or blackout striping on the car! @@ajaxengineco

[@GeorgeUKCFC]

I think that the coaches in Dunkirk were actually Bulleids; you can see the yellow number on the end of one of them.

[@ewoutro]

That's what I thought too, but they weren't first introduced until 1946-47. A slight oversight by the production crew, it seems.

[@tonybailey7037]

The major issue with a period scene in a city such as Birmingham is the lack of a major tram system.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

Plus the fact that Brummie gangsters in the 1920's were not running around with Thompson guns, and all manner of other automatic hardware, which made us look like an English Chicago!

[@Soundwave3591]

I think the issue, particularly in cases like "Lone Ranger" is the difficulty in securing use of the engines: while replicas and the occasional original engines still exist ( both "General" and "Texas" from " the Great Locomotive Chase" are 1860's vintage, and, for that matter, both the ACTUAL General and Texas also still exist) most museums are reluctant to hand over their priceless engines to movie crews. Especially when the words " crash" or "derailed" are in the script. Even with the use of fakes for the actual crash, concerns for how well the movie crews will treat the machines will be on their minds. The cost of transportation might also be prohibitive, considering that most museums that house these engines are hundreds of miles from where the movie was filmed in the American Southwest, across states with different laws regarding their transport. Steam Engine regulation is also quite strict in the US ( at least where I live) so the legal issues that went with running actual steam on the movie line might have added to the already rising costs. It's the same reason you don't see actual German Panzers in a lot of films: while running examples certainly exist, they're so rare most owners or museums are reluctant to risk them being damaged in a film. I understand the use of the Tiger Tank in "Fury" caused a lot of nail-biting due to concerns about it breaking down.

[@silaskuemmerle2505]

Panzer 3s and 4s still exist in abundance, but a lot of collectors seem to have this dream in the back of their heads of converting them into StuGs

[@_Zekken]

To be fair, in regards to fury, the actual Fury Sherman they used did get treated like shit by the film makers, from what I have read and seen.

[@PiersDJackson]

Two little tidbits for the world's consumption: 1 - The little train used in "The Man from Snowy River II" is John Fowler 0-6-0T (build number 11885 of 1909), imported to Queensland and used in several sugar cane plantations and refineries into the 1960's, it was then bought for a failed tourist venture in Goulburn New South Wales, before being purchased by The Alexandra Historical Society, in Victoria, in 1981, it was then leased to the film production company in 1987, who transported it to Sheepyard Flat in the high country to run on a 700' section of track for the film, the Alexandra Historical Society was renamed to the Alexandra Timber Tramway and Museum by this stage and also supplied driver and fireman for the film.... Unfortunately in the return journey to the museum by road it tipped off the low loader! Thankfully the film production covered the repairs as part of their lease. 2 - a good proportion of "modern" Russian and American tanks seen in films over the last 20 years are ex-Australian Army Centurians in fancy dress.....

[@the4tierbridge]

Ironically, in Paraguay, 4 Sherman tanks are still in Military service.

[@RTek1986]

For two contrsting WWII tank examples from 1970, the tanks used in Patton (a fully historical story based mainly on Patton: Ordeal & Triumph, a very good biography of the man) were all postwar American tanks owned by the Spanish army (as the movie was filmed there). The same year, Kelly's Heroes, the screwball comedy about a squad of US soldiers sneaking behind German lines to rob a bank was filmed in Yugoslavia - whose army still owned actual WWII Lend-Lease Shermans which appear in the film (alongside three of the better Tiger replicas, converted by the Yugoslav military for a 'historical' film about the war).

[@metalheadrailfan]

Pere Marquette 1225 could be an example of studio using both real and "fake" trains. While The Polar Express is complete CGI, the locomotive that you hear (and in technicality see) in the film is the 1225 and people to this day folk to the Steam Railroading Institute every Christmas to ride behind it because it has been immortalized (at least in animated form) as a Christmas locomotive. Plus it helps that the engine's number just so happens to be Christmas Day, 12/15.

[@goingnowherefast1834]

yes, its not easy to have full railway accuracy,but you can sometimes get away with things, If it involves time travel, maybe some modifications of the script could help. that or you pull a "thomas" and have a fake setting or use a preserved line

[@OakViewFilms]

Ironically, I actually live not too far from where the Lone Ranger locomotives ended up. After the film was released, they were donated to the Fillmore and Western Railway in Fillmore, California, which is famous for it's heavy use in film production, as the town is less than an hour north of Los Angeles/Hollywood. Also there is the EMD GP35 used in the film Inception.

[@justandy333]

Great Video! You make a very good point. Another case was 'Tornado' when it appeared on Top Gear racing the bike and the car to Edinburgh. Tornado's popularity went through the roof when that was aired. It's a physical tangible icon that people can go and see in the flesh for many years to come, rather than a prop that ended up in the skip. Great presentation :)

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

Great topic! And I must agree - I've gotten quite a knack for pointing out inaccurate locos in movies, although I do like to see them because I recognize where it is. Although I must agree that using prop trains for crash sequences is definitely the way to go.

[@thestarlightalchemist7333]

Hey rocky, don't you think the 4-6-0s from lone ranger would make good "casey jones" engines?

[@Middlesbrough250]

I notice a fake GWR painted royal blue on a J38 tank, in Chitty, Chitty, Bang, Bang, When in fact it was LMR locomotive and rolling stock.

[@ajaxengineco]

I saw that too and thought, right, fictional liveries I can stand but that engine doesn't look very Western at all.

[@TheRailFaningBoy]

As a person who is a fan of both trains and films it's best to say that using a prop is better than a real locomotive for a wreck scene. Sure seeing a real steam locomotive in a movie is a lot more interesting than seeing a prop but would you rather wreck real steam locomotive for just one scene? Other than that I question myself when I heard that locomotives in The Lone Ranger were props and not the real thing until I realize how much trouble it would have been to use the real Jupiter and 119. Also The Lone Ranger props did not go to the trash there are saved by the Fillmore & Western Railroad in Fillmore California. Most of the railroads I visit where railroads I seen in movies like Railtown, Fillmore and Western, Virginia & Truckee Etc. I happy to say that these railroads are still around because of the films that they were in. The only problem is when people go up to a random steam locomotive they either call it the Hogwarts or Polar Express( or even worse Thomas) and don't even get me started when they use are wrong period Steam Locomotive in a movie. Heck PM 1225 gets a lot of attention for being in the Polar Express and that's an animated movie. All in all either prop or real it's really cool seeing a steam locomotive in a movie.

[@owenmeschter9888]

Well said!

[@VT29steamtrain]

The NKP 765 is the closest looking to the Polar express because of its visual apperance

[@OriginalBongoliath]

@@VT29steamtrain Actually Pere Marquette 1225, not NKP 765.

[@VT29steamtrain]

@@OriginalBongoliath I compared them and NKP 765 2009 apperance looks closer to the loco in the movie. Polar express does not have a bobblehead. Or a wheel reverser. It has a jonson bar reverser. Like NKP 765. So that is just my opinion.

[@otakurailfan]

Very well put indeed

[@inkyscrolls5193]

Wahey, thanks for shout out to my railway (the Worth Valley)! Rather oddly though, quite a lot of our visitors come from Japan - because in Japan, students of literature study the Brontës, and thus want to see Haworth for themselves, and travel on the railway at the same time (although the railway wasn't actually built until after all the Brontë sisters had died!).

[@MushOfficial]

Lets not forget that one Sherlock Holmes film that was set in Germany, where they went to a German Railyard... with GWR stock

[@protoharry552]

I’m just happy to see any steam locomotives that aren’t props used in movies, regardless if it’s accurate or not.

[@BalticFilms144]

I love when you brought up the subject on engines and railway equipment not fitting the actual time period the movie was intended to take place in. One other example was a movie created in 2008 called "Public Enemies" which is supposed to take place in 1920's Chicago. However in one of the scenes, Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 #261 makes an appearance at the train station with some passenger cars. Now to the average person there's nothing wrong, but to a railfan as you've said before, will notice the era difference. 261 was built in 1944 and was in her 1948 rebuild appearance. She also had 1950s era bud cars behind her.

[@fudgebaker]

Indeed something to think about. I'm an avid supporter of using the real things, as I can often immediately see when they're fake. Up to the point where it becomes detrimental to the locomotive. In The Lone Ranger for example, they could've used the real replicas for the entire movie on their own little track, up to the beginning of the chase scenes, and then used fake ones. It still bothers me that even the props don't look like the real things at all, despite carrying their name and numbers. Also, the controls all seem to be backwards in that movie, very frustrating. The best thing, of course, is that the real things generate more interest, which, like you said, helps pay various bills and might create some new enthusiasts.

[@tracksidefilms5416]

Now I want to build a life sized model of a steam locomotive out of cardboard

[@elsopas8967]

Ill help

[@MrNoUsername]

Who doesn’t? Definitely less expensive than a real locomotive

[@ejcmoorhouse]

The worst for me is From Russia with Love, a British Railways Loco and Green Southern Region coaches is nothing like the Orient Express.

[@Paraffinmeister]

get on "orient express" in Istanbul, cut to scenes of BR standard 5 passing through Basingstoke, get off train somewhere in eastern Europe, suddenly end up at Arisaig in the West highlands for dramatic boat chase....

[@ejcmoorhouse]

Yep total nonsense ruined the whole James Bond franchise for me.

[@metropod]

Last month, Steven Spielberg was in my neighborhood of NYC filming his remake of “West Side Story” with the elevated M subway line that snakes through standing in for the 9th Avenue Elevated Line. Why do I mention that? Because West Side Story is set in the 1950s. And the 9th Avenue Line was closed in 1940 and demolished immediately after...

[@RTek1986]

Whoops.

[@bluesmokeproductions4642]

There is a fake movie locomotive called the Emma Sweeny that was used in a movie called ticket to tomahawk and it was later used in petticoat junction alongside Sierra railroad #3. Its now on display in a park in Durango Colorado. I briefly saw it while I was on a trip in the western U.S.

[@TERRYBARTLETTRAILMAN28]

Good one Mate as an experienced enthusiast and cleaner myself I couldn't tell the difference from the real thing and the fake train hope everything is okay in Germany

[@olly5764]

Thought you might have mentioned the fake 14xx used in the Titfield Thunderbolt, built around a Morris (or was it a Bedford?) lorry and driven around the streets of Titfield after Dan and Mr Valentine pinched a loco from Bristol Bath Road.

[@IroncladInSteam4007]

I mean, to be fair, it could be said that in Dunkirk, the coaches used were the Bullied forerunners of the Mk1s, as they looked like them. That said, I don’t remember when the Bullied coaches were introduced.

[@fazbear8385]

Jupiter & Constitution do look bloody AMAZING

[@bluesmokeproductions4642]

Now that I think of it one topic that somewhat relates to this is fake steam locomotives in parks. I dont know if you run into that very often but a recurring problem in America is that we have a lot of diesels made to look like steam engines running on theme park railways. I know you dont do requests but I dont think that would be a bad idea for a future episode of this show.

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

the most annoying thing on earth is watching a cartoon and seeing a steam engine without a tender that sounds like a diesel locomotive

[@MrRailroadrunner]

3:49 that engine still exists. It's frame and valve gear are real, and are under a 15in gauge engine on the redwood valley railway in California as I recall. Point is, it took weeks, as part of the contract of the movie studio was to overhaul the engine and repair any damage from filming

[@joshslater2426]

I think The Lone Ranger is a great movie on the whole, but the train scenes in particular really show the potiential of custom build movie replicas and are great action scenes. I would like to see more fake trains in the future alongside real locos. A replica of Lion would be ideal for a Thunderbolt remake, perhaps they can revive a fake train from Oliver, or even build replicas of trains that no longer exist…

[@4fproductions637]

Very well put, and I agree with the statements said here. Using the real deal can have a good impact with the armchair brigade, and sometimes using miniatures and mock-ups take away the locomotive's significance somewhat. My two sense is this: use miniatures for the following: 1. If the locomotive class is extinct or a sole survivor. 2. If a locomotive is involved in a derailment where it is heavily damaged, or destroyed. 3. If an extinct locomotive is used in a scene inside a 1930s LMS terminus (or anything from that era), digitally composite a model of said extinct locomotive into the shot, as well as do a matte painting (digital or traditional) for long shots of the station in said scene. This is my personal take on this subject, but I myself am not really into the CGI age of today. (thank Star Wars 77 and Derek Meddings for that.)

[@thestarlightalchemist7333]

one thing about fake trains that dont get used in crash scenes: after the film is made, they get sold off for next to NO money at all. A good way to get a full-sized model.

[@riokent5374]

I think Disney used the KWVR S160 in dumbo also in the iron maiden they used the actual engine for a majority of the shots but all crashe shots were on a full scale wooden model wich looked just like the actual thing and can shots on all engines were replicas too

[@tidmouthmilk12]

Came back to this video having seen some clips and news reports of filming on the latest Mission Impossible. They're using a stunt engine that looks like someone shrunk a 9F and added some German-styled features and paintwork. Also they drove it off a cliff into a quarry.

[@thoughtengine]

The 90s TV series once tried to convince me of a Czech railway operating diesels in Horizon Blue and Grey, Queensland Government Railways scheme, complete with logo on the nose.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

Something similar turned up in the recent Indiana Jones film!

[@mplusm7625]

The danish steam locomotive was a Litra S.

[@thomasgianopoulos9774]

For Dunkirk, I could easily tell the bf109 they used in the film was one of the many old Spanish 109s equipped with rolls royce merlin engines that first appeared on screen in the 1969 Harry Saltzman film Battle of Britain.

[@highdownmartin]

Green coaching stock at the end of Dunkirk, okay, bullied maunsell or even BR Mk1. But why film the interior shots with WW2 soldiers sitting on blue eighties BR moquette? That could have been done in any coach. That really jarred with me as it was just careless. Didn't mention it to the missus though as she would have just told me to piss off!!

[@Mike_Anton]

This argument applies to any film / tv production that uses historical equipment. AFV fans gnash their teeth at incorrect donor vehicles (Russian T34's pretending to be German Tigers, amongst many others), Incorrect Routemaster buses appears to be a thing as well. The aerial scenes in Dunkirk are excellent but some quick interwebbing will show you that most of that wasn't 'real', either being large scale models or completely different aircraft running as camera mules. I think I have an appreciation of what goes into making films and TV programmes and they're complicated, time consuming and expensive. You want to keep everything as simple and consistent as possible so genuine equipment that is unreliable is always going to be a headache.

[@robertlucido3686]

The Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan has an operating 4-4-0 that does look similar to Union Pacific 119, Detroit & Lima Northern #7, though it does have differences from the actual 119, I think it would look good for the role of 119 in a movie of the Golden spike ceremony of 1869, also I read that the engine the, "Constitution," from The Lone Ranger was heavily based off another famous locomotive, Illinois Central #382, the engine Casey Jones ran the night of his famous wreck

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

I was at the Durango and Silverton at the right time to see some Durango and Silverton engines dressed up for a Kevin Costner movie called "Horizon". I posted about it, and people got confused on why there were engines saying "Illinois Central" in a place that was nowhere near the IC's historical lines, and while a lot of people will complain about it, I believe that the reason they did it is Because they had to make due with what they had, in this case, they had a narrow gauge railroad.

[@caelumvaldovinos5318]

I agree with your points on how much impact that the real deal has. "Once Upon a Time in the West" is supposed to be set in the American Southwest, yet uses Italian(?) equipment for the shots. Despite that inaccuracy, the shots of a snorting steam locomotive with a piercing whistle sticks with you. However, I like what Hell on Wheels did with their locos. Would it have been nice to see something like the real William Mason be used? Oh yes please! But, the problem with old Bill is that she's an old engine that has old engine problems: namely you're never going to have her pull any kind of load unless you throw a new boiler on her. American locomotives in the 1860's were built by small ma-n'-pa shops with each locomotive having a high level of individuality between them. Then, you have the theme of the movie. Hell on Whes is meant to be dark and gritty. It would be a dramatic eye popper to insert the bold, flashy colours of a real 1869 Baldwin or Rogers 4-4-0 in the series. Overall, while I like seeing the real deal on screen, I can appreciate the complexities of working with limited resources.

[@cityjamesman1306]

In the back to the future 3 the Train part the railroad Sierra no.3 in the pushing the delorean without the Train falling of the bridge 1. They used a dummy funnel then the Steam turned Red 2. Some parts where accutaly in model version without the Train falling of the bridge 3.maybe im wrong if you want to know more about the part internet is the way

[@thomashendrix4789]

I was wondering when you go to get around to it than a piece involving Dr. who considering they only use British trains four times in the entire series how about considering a piece in relation to the Japanese animation cartoon series dousing express 999 .

[@marvinwatkins8889]

Interesting points but I don't buy most of them. The trainspotter/rail fans complaints are virtually irrelevant compared to the general public's on a film's success. And it may be a bit of a stretch regarding rail preservation. Also those artist's interpretations of you are not particularly accurate and constantly appearing are frankly, just plain wierd.

[@ewoutro]

I absolutely agree. While it is clever to build an entire replica locomotive, why not use the ones that already exist? Use a replica for crash scenes of course, but it seems a waste of money and potential not to use the real thing. In my opinion, the real/fake issue pales in comparison to the problems with historical inaccuracy. The number of times I've seen MK1 coaches or a BR livery set in a pre-WWII movie is frustrating, or when they dress up british locomotives as 'continentals' (*cough* sherlock holmes 2 *cough*) Seriously, how hard is it to just bring in a railway consultant to tell you what is correct and where!? I have to say though, The Lone Ranger is a bizarre mess of a movie but that chase scene to the William Tell Overture is just badass. Almost makes up for the rest of it... almost.

[@mr99gto]

I did actually read posts on a model railway website (I can't remember which one it was), that the locomotive you see in the trailer's & production pics of the upcoming Orient Express film is former S.N.C.F 4-8-2 241A65, they filmed footage of the locomotive operating with a rake of coaches in Switzerland near where the locomotive is kept & used CGI to render it into the snowy location where the film is set & made it look like the way it does in the film, much like what they did in the Lone Ranger for the parallel train chase sequence, I also heard that in the new Paddington Bear sequel that Tornado is set to appear in it, makes you wonder what that appearance is going to do for her popularity.

[@josephmarrison4606]

Wow. Your reviews are so excellent and well thought out.

[@AJSSPACEPLACE]

I like the fake train, used in the Dumbo remake. Because it was a fictional train, invoking the feeling of a separate fictional train

[@therailfanman2078]

This reminds me of how people got pissed because micheal Bay didn't use actual Japanese carriers for his Pearl Harbor (i think). Even though we kinda sank them all... Also, IMO, the Lone Ranger train scenes were the best in the film because of the goofiness.

[@That_One_Guy_In_A_Band]

What about LMS 8431's use in two iconic scenes from Pink Floyd's The Wall?

[@FutureRailProductions]

This is actually very illuminating. I never would have heard of Sierra Railway #3 if it hadn't been for Back to the Future. And then I never would have heard of Petticoat Junction. A TV show that featured Sierra Railway 3. Shots of the engine used at a distance was the real thing while close up shots like if the engineer or the passengers were boarding the train was a fiberglass model. That model actually still exist in Durango, Colorado I believe. Of course it doesn't look like the Cannonball now it looks like the Emma Sweeney from movie A Ticket to Tomahawk.

[@TailsFan369no2]

8:59 SHINOBI-03 may or may not have something to say about that part

[@BritanniaPacific]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't nene valley operate a polish ty2 locomotive during the 1990s?

[@fordson51]

Some older westerns from the 1930s to 1970s used actual period correct engines they owned in house or rented from existing heritage lines here in the US. I have actually visited and seen some of the engines used as well as ridden on some of the original rolling stock. Lines now just don’t want to sacrifice the time for filming and the cost of redoing things after. Still fun to see and ride behind some of the real trains vs replicas.

[@tancoplays3502]

It's kinda like they day out with Thomas props used in the us they look more like Thomas but it's way cooler to see him at Strasburg because it's a real steam engine

[@reallyoldfatgit]

I found Dunkirk very disappointing as, from a maritime point of view, it’s inaccuracies were legion. From the modern pontoons in Weymouth Harbour which could easily have been removed, to having a cabin lock in a small boat on the outside of the cabin where nobody would ever put one, it destroyed all plausibility. Finally no boats would have sailed past Ramsgate, Dover, Folkestone, Rye, Eastbourne, Newhaven, Shoreham, Littlehampton, Pagham, Chichester, Bembridge, Langstone, Portsmouth, Ryde, Wotton Creek, Hill Head, The Hamble, Southampton, Cowes, Beaulieu, Yarmouth, Limimgton, Key Haven, Christchurch, Poole, and a number of other smaller harbours to get back to Weymouth to discharge their passengers unless they were completely mental. The military inaccuracies were pathetic such as a Royal Engineer NCO saluting an officer without a hat on as if he was a yank! No, it was very disappointing long before the wrong rolling stock were used. Some of the flying scenes were ok and I get the reason for the Messerschmitts having yellow markings but the model Messerschmitt crashing looked like the radio controlled model it was. Historical films should have plausibility including the right rolling stock.

[@ijmr2005]

I remeber waching sherlock holmes game of shadows when they were having a fight at the munitions factory railyard in germany. But i saw a glimpse of either a 57xx or 14xx and then made me confused when they were chased through the forest and then saw a german locomotive.

[@ThomasTrain-lo2xh]

SIERRA No.3 Was used in the 60's TV show petticoat junction...!

[@mikeytrains1]

Well, in regards to the Civil War-era 4-4-0 debacle, the 17 is a new build, the Eureka & Palisade 4 is a narrow gauge locomotive that was actually built in the Reconstruction period, same with Inyo. And even then, the V&T wouldn't be much a spot to film it on, the 17 is all the way in Pennsylvania, and the schedule of 4's runnings are so sporadic, it's better off to be considered stored servicable. Granted there are others, however using E&P 4 as an example is... Questionable. Outside of that I fully agree with much of the video

[@RailPreserver2K]

There's also the General in Texas but the general was modernized so it could run in the sixties and the Texas was overhauled to we're only the original frame and bellstand from the 1850s remained

[@saucypan-8796]

I love the lone ranger I haven't seen it in months

[@CairnieR]

Hollyoaks used a dummy Class 14 for that train crash scene(along with some scrap real MK2 coaches) which was pushed by a class 47 for the crash shot but all the live shots were the real D9531.

[@MrNoUsername]

Something that always bothered me with trains in films is the whistle sound I know accuracy isn’t a big deal most of the time but it always bothers me when a steam locomotive in a film has a different whistle sound when the production team could’ve recorded the whistle sound from the actual engine used in the film. Like in Polar Express when they used the stock standard Sierra Railroad No.3’s whistle when they could’ve used the whistle sound from the real Pere Marquette 1225. Another famous example is GWR No.5972 Olton Hall having the whistle sound of an A4 Pacific in the Harry Potter films. My point is, why use another engine’s whistle when you can have the actual engine right there that you can record?

[@class87fan54]

For the Dad's Army movie last year they used Black Five No 45428 Eric Treacy, and even went to the bother of repainting it into LMS livery for the film. It's a pity the same wasn't done for Bradley Manor in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I've seen a photo of Flying Scotsman taken when they were filming Agatha, where she was re-numbered as 4474 Victor Wild on one side, and 4480 Enterprise on the other. For The Titfield Thunderbolt, a fake 1400 was used for the scene where Dan and Valantine nick one and drive it along the street, and a fake Lion was built for the scene where they get it out of the museum. Train of Events used a model for the crash scenes, and the real 46126 Royal Army Corps for the other shots of the train.

[@MatecaCorp]

Personally I think we've just about reached the "point of no return" with faux engines in film. Most big budget movies these use either studio built props or CGI replications for the majority or even the entirety of the film, and when a real locomotive is used it is usually for a very minimal amount of time. Of course, there are some cases (Harry Potter as a main example) where it is overall more convenient to use a real train, but that option is usually bypassed. I do agree with you on the subject of how it SHOULD work, but our approach is, for the most part, no longer viewed as practical or preferable.

[@nicholasjones9705]

What do you make of the train chase sequence in Paddington 2?

[@metropod]

I think the real problem with trains is how easily they can break immersion in a story. I remember watching an episode of “NCIS” where the cast is leaving a crime scene that’s supposed to be in the Virginia suburbs of Washington DC... only for a Los Angeles Metrolink commuter train to roll past. I know that was not the only take of that shot they had. Did they really need the train that was basically admitting “yeah, this show is really filmed 3000 miles away on the other side of the country”

[@eliotreader8220]

i could understand what you said a fake or stand in steam locomotive or traction engine is safer than using and possibly damaging a real live one which is owned by someone and anyway a real steam engine can be problematic and some thing can go wrong with it

[@RailPreserver2K]

Unstoppable in The Fugitive used real railroad equipment. The locomotives used in The fugitive were basically gutted so they could be used in the film but since they were real they were more convincing and the same can be said with unstoppable.

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

Chris: *roasts Trump* Trump: WE NEED TO BUILD A BIGGER WALL

[@ElliottLJ]

I read a timetable from the original transcontinental railroad, and most of the time they went around 10-20 mph. But some stretches they ran around 30 mph. So yeah, the real engines from the old west could run 40 mph.

[@nabil944]

One of my moms friend took her childern to the UK once. The child is twice as old as me, and said a black 5 was the basis for The Hogwarts Express

[@jacob2954]

tornado has been immortalised as the engine from paddington 2

[@thoughtengine]

Sometimes it's better to fake it than to have something so glaringly wrong appear. Eg. Sniper, starring Tom Berenger. The first film is so obviously filmed in Australia because the rail insertion scene was shot on the Kuranda Scenic Railway, with painfully obvious QR stock (one could say the Panama Railroad had simply bought ex-QR stock, but that makes even less sense as QGR was always 3'6" gauge and the Panama Railroad was Old Russian gauge until the 2000s, at which point it was demolished and replaced with standard gauge. It can completely fail, however, such as in Titanic when an American import locomotive appeared on the Southampton docks before WW1, when it wouldn't be imported until WW2. Or on the drawing board until the late 30s. At least fake having the right thing, James Cameron!

[@mikeytrains1]

Now that I just realized the Mk1s in Dunkirk, then I can't exactly enjoy it.

[@MattyP62618]

Yeah that scene in Dunkirk ruined it for me honestly. Emersion was completely gone. It's sometimes hard being a train nerd haha!

[@NoaZeevi]

Because, the coaches were off from the timeperiod by 1-2 years (they were Bullied’s)? How picky are you?

[@MattyP62618]

@@NoaZeevi not as picky as someone who replies to a 3 year old comment at the early hours of the morning on a Sunday

[@NoaZeevi]

@@MattyP62618 It was 4:00 or so PM where I am.

[@jakeandzack5763]

Luckily those Lone Ranger prop locomotives and coaches ended up at the Filmore & Western Railroad and are still being used for productions or otherwise.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

I've never seen 'Hell on Wheels', but would not have thought that 4-4-0 was a mock up, it was that well done. There's a pre-war British film in which a wooden mock up of a PLM Pacific was created, along with a train and (I think) the Gare de Lyon for platform sequences. Some of the film mistakes amuse me, others irritate me, but as you say, the film crews have to use what is available...... hence, in several spaghetti westerns, an elderly long boiler 0-6-0 appears, dressed up with fake balloon stack, pilot and headlight. In The Train - look closely at the shed road in the background of the armoured train sequence - the 141rs arrived in France before Dunkirk, it seems. You could go on for ever spotting mistakes - the best blunders are in 'Force 10 from Navarone' - watch the film, spot them and be prepared to laugh out loud.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

PS - the classic movies, John Ford's 'Iron Horse' and Cecil B de Mille's "Union Pacific" both built their own railways before shooting the films - indeed, making "Union Pacific" generated so many train movements that de Mille had to have ICC authorisation as though he he was the boss of a 'real' railroad - which he was after all.

[@AronQ33]

Could the next GTI be on the new-build steam scene? Of course, there's too many projects going on, and many more being brought up that aren't happning.

[@tracksidefilms5416]

I heard that in paddington 2 they are using tornado!

[@vincentberkan605]

3:06 that's actually a real locomotive. Nationale de Mexico #650. Built by Baldwin in 1889.

[@danthetainman4586]

that green loco looks like the Victorian railways Y class in aus

[@lillylouise5353]

I don't get it if worth valley was in the railway children then were is the pannier tank from the film or was it wiped out like a lot or does worth vallley not own the pannier

[@kineticrail]

Lilly Louise the pannier in the railway children is owned by the worth valley when i last visited she was in the shed at oxenhope

[@lillylouise5353]

kinetic . Oh

[@ajaxengineco]

What livery was she in?

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

It was a 'made up' livery, of Stroudley yellow ochre; in the book the railway company was the 'Great Northern & Southern' (hence the letters on the engine's tank.) I think she was painted yellow to visually distinguish her from the 'Green Dragon'. If my meory is correct, the N2 you see briefly is wearing Br lined black! The original book illustrations were very clever - the one clear drawing of a complete train was a LSWR Adams 'Jubilee' with 'birdcage stock; the old gentleman's carriage had a marked North Eastern feel to it, and the cab of another engine looked -well it could have been one of a number of lines.@@ajaxengineco

[@saucypan-8796]

I didn't know that railway had some sidish and Danish locomotives

[@therailfanman2078]

I think the issue with using real trains on set is the risk of damaging them. Also, you have to take in consideration that the mocie studio might need an engine that just... doesnt exist. One that was scrapped or broken up decades ago. And you also have movies with trains going fast enough that the real ones could get damaged. IMO studio built trains are a great way to still habe full scale models without rhe risk of damage or derailment to the real ones

[@willhorowitz8806]

Hate to break it but 17 is not a civil war Engine she's a convincing replica. Also I work at Steam into History

[@willhorowitz8806]

Also Inyo and Eureka were both built in 1875 after the war. The only Civil War loco operating until 2014 was the 1858 built William Mason

[@Stackedwithcash]

Very well put!

[@montgomeryfamily6199]

Serra no 3 still exists I've seen it

[@saucypan-8796]

Dose that mean the casey jr loco from the real life dumbbo movie is fake

[@BlindingLight]

I don’t think this was what I was looking for

[@JRS06]

I care about the fake trains used in Oliver by the way.

[@dutydruidfilms11]

Not only fake trains, Chris. But OO gauge and train simulator. How’s that info, Chris?

[@skoorbyrret4578]

Another typical example was the "Mission Impossible 7" film in 2021{?} .....it used a full sized wooden replica of a {BR} Brittania loco, made to look like a foriegn engine. The loco was actually made {mainly} of wood, with a diesel engine driving the tender, and smoke generators in the loco. FWIU, some of the footage was filmed on the North Yorks Moors Railway, and then the loco? was taken to a disused quarry in Derbyshire where it was destroyed. Linky below .....{if it works} kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZXWhaqQnct4mqs

[@erikgustafson9319]

Better yet animate it with sounds from the locomotives themselves

[@ajaxengineco]

That last point about using both real and fakes applies to The Titfield Thunderbolt, they smashed up the real GWR 1401, though 'Twas 1953, then used a fake 1462 to drive down the road into a tree. As we all saw a real 14xx not long before, most people were convinced. Because the branch they used for filming was closed, they shot the real water tower with real guns.

[@jameswells6003]

The loco which ended up down the bank was actually a model built by Bassett-Lowke. The real 1401 returned to normal service after filming.

[@ajaxengineco]

@@jameswells6003 Really, thanks for telling me that, though I think the real 1401 should have been preserved so they don't have to repaint and renumber 1450 or 1466 or 1420 every time they want a recreation.

[@jameswells6003]

@@ajaxengineco Well, 1450 was also used for filming! I have a feeling one faced one way and the other faced the other way - so 1450 is a faithful recreation when numbered as 1401!

[@ajaxengineco]

@@jameswells6003 I guess they lacked a turntable? I don't know, but sure I mean, I wasn't the director. I heard two other 1400s were used to give Lion a boost up to 25mph because her top speed was only 15mph. They had to slam on the brakes before they burst into shot.

[@jameswells6003]

@@ajaxengineco No turntable on the branch! Presumably two brake vans too? And Lion still bears damage from when the train runs into it at the water tower! You can see how violently the tender moves on impact!

[@jsma9999]

Hear Hear, Used the Real in Sence where it Not Dangerous and used the fake when Cost or Damage in going to be high. I not happy to see 4472 Being Damage for a film