How not to do a PVC drainage system

[@mbarrett99]

Previous job: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH3Sfnmqebhsfs0

[@GCFD]

Oh yea I forgot to post that! How'd you manage to find it!

[@andrewjambo1]

@@mbarrett99 good find, I looked but couldn't work it out. Thank you.

[@andrewjambo1]

Read the title and thought you'd be correcting another contractor's installation. Good on you for highlighting the issues you encounter rather than pretending that every job is a great success with 100% customer satisfaction.

[@GCFD]

Haha I've done this before with no problems, but this one turned into a problem.

[@southpike1000]

Can't win em all. I am personally glad you made the video.

[@GCFD]

Thank you! These homeowners were worrying over this all summer. 👍

[@WildAcresFarms]

Thank you for making this video, highlighting the jobs that don’t work out is more instructive for people watching along, than showcasing the ones that do. I run into this routinely doing tree work in rural areas. A guy with 20 acres and a tractor thinks it’s going to be no big deal to cut up two massive oak trees. So they pay me just to get them to the ground and not do any cleanup. Halfway through the job, they see the astonishing magnitue of the mess and… you can guess the rest. (Trees visibly quadruple in size and volume when they hit the ground.) Describing the result of your work in explicit detail never truly prepares them for seeing it actually occur. Which is precisely what happened here.

[@GCFD]

Great comment WAF! Thanks for sharing another example with is. 👍

[@wendymistak4501]

When Ron made the comment on wanting to take over the world I laughed out loud. Loved that cartoon.

[@GCFD]

👍👍

[@Losttoanyreason]

I think a lot of people sometimes have unreal expectations that don't align with reality. They wish something so hard that they don't really hear anything said that might negatively interfere with what they want to happen. I think you did the best you could with what you had to work with.

[@GCFD]

Thank you! I tried to get this one figured out. We certainly went back and forth with lots of ideas.

[@mrdbooks7285]

Show things like this, you and viewers can learn from this and help improve in the future.

[@GCFD]

I hope these videos help lots of people and properties 👍

[@whip205inthebam3]

Shawn, and all the other guys and gals on the crew WTG great job.

[@GCFD]

Thank you!

[@Will-ll4gv]

Haven’t watched a video of yours for awhile, great to see how you have evolved and continue to endeavor to persevere 👍

[@JPaul60]

That is a tough situation. I thought maybe diverting the outflow into a couple of smaller pipes and fanout the discharge but that's nothing more than an experiment rather than an iron clad solution. I think trying to please the customer is the hardest part of the job. Being able to maintain a good customer relationship is a honed skill. I watched the original job when you posted it.

[@torchup]

Respectfully, at 1:40 of your video you point out yet overlook the problem that was always above and not necessarily on the ground. The above back gutter appears to be maybe 40 to even a 60 ft of run with only one downspout and end-capped shut in the problem corner. Clearly that corner needs an outside turn into the other side gutter and even another downspout somewhere midway in that long roofline run. Hurricane rains or torrential downpours need far more dispersal points off such a long extended run and often the solution of an overwhelming ground flooding point lies in correcting poorly installed gutters and a single downspout point that creates the problem ground flooding point.

[@GCFD]

I made that point very clear that the run was way too long and we needed to add downspouts. The homeowners didn't want to because of their appearance. I left it alone, but I expect overflowing at some point in that area, like you said.

[@Renatousa17]

Excellent video and perfect explanation,

[@GCFD]

Thank you! 👍

[@hj8607]

I have seen a dry well (length of 12, 14, 16 inch diameter perforated pipe) as a destination for 55+ gallons of water) used to park water ( with overflow pop up drain). Even larger one of 300+ temporary storage. Seems like a perfect end to this gutter drain. Water just soaks into ground .

[@johnknightiii1351]

Great video! Seems like a good situation to use a sump pump

[@GCFD]

A pump would have worked well but costs more. 👍

[@johnw7587]

Keep all the videos coming

[@GCFD]

Thank you John!

[@ralphprincen]

Good to also share the jobs which did not go perfect, we all can learn from our mistakes.

[@GCFD]

This one did work, but it really points out that customer expectations can vary. I haven't heard anything back since I added the rock.

[@jdw2150]

I think the "problem water, was moved to a MUCH less of a problem area that where it was originally. Not even sure what the issue was, especially after extending the outfall. I say it was a great solution. There is not always a 100% solution. But, there is most often choosing to divert to a lesser of the two problem areas.... Great content Shawn! And great to see Ronald out there!!!!

[@ManBee999]

thanks for making the video, from Manchester UK

[@kimAndNate]

Even though the solution is not ideal, I would still prefer the problem water to be away from the house foundation.

[@thejohnbeck]

not that this is feasible, but would it have been physically possible to have the back gutter merge with the gutters in front by running a pipe along the side of the house to dump into the front pipe? I'm not sure i'd have done it aesthetically, just curious about the frontn pipe's carrying capacity

[@GCFD]

The homeowners and landscaper were supposed to do some plants and rocks around the outfall but never did! Thanks for the super thanks John! - Shawn

[@barrygrant2907]

The video world needs more "How not to" videos.

[@GCFD]

Hahah I've got a few more, but it's hard to detail the whole situation. I hope you can read between the lines on this video and see what really happened.

[@terryg3469]

Looks good , I like your Rock system

[@GCFD]

Thank you Terry! The extra rock did the trick on this one.

[@rickb3078]

Would love to see all the content you can provide

[@GCFD]

Thank you Rick!

[@Jasonoid]

I guess the lesson learned here is that you stick to your rules! Let another company deal with the issue instead of you. Thanks for making the video so we can learn these lessons! 1) Identify the problem water 2) Get that problem water into a pipe 3) Remove the problem water

[@TomIslav-o7l]

Love the video mate, in future where theres no option, youll just have to use the last od the last sump pump option

[@RA-bg3pe]

Would you ever consider putting in a leach field in the future for a problem like this?

[@fredrikg120]

Wondered this too. Seems like an obvious solution. Ie create a lot of space for the water to sit until it can infiltrate! I guess the risk is it would fill up. But you could input a popup drain above it so you can see if it stops taking water.

[@SlackerU]

That would not work in that spot, the exposed tree roots show the soil is very compacted from the ponded water.

[@fredrikg120]

@@SlackerU that just means it would infiltrate very slowly. But at least the water would have somewhere to go

[@SlackerU]

@@fredrikg120 In hurricane territory if it is full of water then it isn't infiltrating it's flooding.

[@GCFD]

A leach field won't work for rainfall in our area. The reason is we have clay subsoils that can't absorb quickly enough to keep up.

[@jumper55ful]

the Pinky and the Brain reference had me rolling!

[@GCFD]

👍 Haha

[@eugenezarzecki198]

I would of dug a hole about 4' deep and wide at the end of the run filled with rock also.

[@GCFD]

Great idea!

[@garcommedia2771]

Would a deep dry well basin surrounded by gravel at the end of the run helped dispersing the water or is the ground too much clay and not permeable enough?

[@fredrikg120]

Seems strange to not even try this. At minimum it would create more space for the water to sit and infiltrate.

[@gheitzl]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@SlackerU]

It's so compacted that the tree roots are sitting on top of the soil. That area was always standing water, basically a dry-pond-bottom.

[@musicalchairs56]

​@@SlackerUI don't think that area looked like that for the life of those trees. It's probably been slowly eroding away and collecting water for a long time but the homeowner never paid any attention to it.

[@GCFD]

It would not work in our area because we have clay subsoils. They don't absorb water nearly fast enough to keep up with rainfall.

[@thomasvnl]

To reply to you inquiry, you cant always have 100% satisfaction. That goes for almost everything. If you know upfront that you don't want to do a job because you are sure you cannot guarantee 100% satisfaction, then either don't do it or make it abundantly clear to the potential customer that the best solution is not happening and give them the option to accept/decline the next best thing. You cannot control everything, but you can control how you deal with things. Not dealing with these situations by not accepting the job does feel a bit like avoiding to accept that you are not 100% in control. But that surely is my opinion, I want to emphasize that I work in a very different trade. I do however have to deal with the same "I cannot do this to 100% satisfaction" issues, so I think there is merrit in what I am saying.

[@GCFD]

I really tried to explain ahead of time on this one but the homeowners were worrying about this all summer. I have turned down jobs before where I knew a solution would create a major problem elsewhere and didn't want to do that. Great comment Thomas! 👍

[@thomasvnl]

​@@GCFDcreating major problems is a very valid reason to turn down a job 👍

[@vindictivetiger]

It's a shame more people don't take the time to go look at property during and after a huge rain event before they invest in it to see how the land disperses water. If you have no good place to send the water (and you live in a state that doesn't prevent your neighbors from sending their water into your yard), then you're going to have to settle with moving the discharge further from the house/foundation. I think the solution at which you arrived is the best one.

[@TomGriffith-l8f]

Nice job!

[@fredrikg120]

How come you didn’t offer to pump the water out to the street? I’ve seen you do that before!

[@GCFD]

We always try to send the water to a place where it is no longer a problem. Here, the street was further away, plus the cost of a pump and wiring.

[@Kanooky_Jones]

Nice houses in that area.

[@GCFD]

This is one of the wealthiest areas around

[@robedwards2897]

Could you install a drywell to let the water perculate in to the ground?

[@GCFD]

That's a great idea Rob, but our subsoils around here are clay. A dry well can't absorb fast enough to keep up with concentrated rainfall. I've tried these before with disastrous results.

[@AlexeiTetenov]

Thank you for sharing!

[@sturnie1]

That job seemed to have a lot of other distractions and maybe took you off your game. It seemed like you got into oh this is such an easy one and it bit you. We all do that take a job as being simple and it becomes our nightmare. Great on you for making all efforts to do it right and make good on it. Merry Christmas

[@maga5381]

Thanks for sharing.

[@GCFD]

Thank you maga! 👍

[@themadchatter4365]

I'd work for you and your crew any day of the week. God bless. Merry Xmas to all

[@RHEC1776]

Ddaannggg 3 years. I remember this episode

[@GCFD]

The video quality has come a long way that's for sure!

[@johncallery814]

I think a dry well would of worked well in this situation. You dig a 8' wide, 15' long and 4'-6' deep hole. Fill the hole with 50 gallon Flo-Wells which can be daisy chained. The Flo-Wells come with a removable top for clean out. I just cleaned mine for the first time in 10 years. My dry well takes 4500 gallons before it starts to bubble up, but after a few hours it drains back into the Flo Well (Dry Well).

[@livnrluvsng]

You highlighted the major problem right in the beginning of the video. I think your job was fine but I would have encouraged HO to add another 2 downspouts instead of capturing the water in that really long gutter run. You then could have added piping to them.

[@GCFD]

The HO didn't want to add downspouts due to their appearance. I warned that was a very long run.

[@douglaspierce8480]

Sodding around the rock field might help to disburse the water rather than having open ground?

[@Blazer6571]

Would better ground cover have helped the situation? Wouldn’t hurt to put something to stop the erosion.

[@GCFD]

They were supposed to do something there with the landscaper. It never happened.

[@AlexeiTetenov]

2:19 Maybe create a huge dry well in that natural area?

[@musicalchairs56]

I'd be tempted to make a 'rain garden ' or some underground system with amended soils in that wood area. It looked eroded away already before you did anything. No grass is there. Those trees might not make it but they can turn it into a flowerbed, pollinator garden to soak up water.

[@michaelwilburn5727]

When addressing the problem by shifting it,… wouldn’t it have been better to have a underground or at least under surface well-like water area with the stones deeper where the water has a place to go and saturate and slow down most importantly

[@GCFD]

The landscaper and homeowner were actually going to do something like that. Instead, they worried about the erosion that started ocurring.

[@havartifunk2200]

Pinkie and the Brain reference!! ❤

[@GCFD]

👍👍

[@daveanderson2865]

The only real solution is remove the downspout from the eavestrough and 90 degree around the corner above the garage doors to the front hugging the soffat all the way to the downspout in the front or the shrub just before the garage doors to discharge on concrete as you did in the front.. Either downspout it beside or Y-pipe it to a larger 6 inch to handle volume. My 2 cents...lol

[@GCFD]

That's a great way of thinking Dave!!

[@simonpaine2347]

I'd have definitely suggested putting a catch basin in, caught the downpipe that's on the slab and pumped it all out to the road. That downpipe on the slab already seems to be causing cracks on the slab.

[@GCFD]

We talked about it but the extra cost of pumping didn't fly. 👍

[@sythguy]

Would some sort of drywell or retention feature in those trees been a different solution or more of the "solved problem A but introduced problem D"? Thanks for sharing the missteps, always good to see!

[@SlackerU]

You could have caught that by understanding the tree roots are exposed b/c they are sitting on top of a compaction-layer caused by standing-water. On a job like that in hurricane territory I would install a 6-8 inch pipe from the lowest possible point on that front ditch & to low-slope it up to a common-spot near the home where I could then tap everything possible to it. The goal being to lower the ground-water-table & to get those trees some well-drained-soil.

[@GCFD]

Our water table is something like 50' feet deep around here with clay subsoils. We really don't have much for subsurface water or infiltration here.

[@SlackerU]

@@GCFD I have 0 to 15 inch groundwater tables on the very flat less than 2% slope part of my State so I never incorporate infiltration b/c we don't have any of it after the rain has started.

[@Matlockization]

I don't understand what the problem is. It appeared from what I could see that the tree roots were exposed, but this was minor. If I had seen the effects of the hurricanes, then maybe I would understand better what the homeowner was crying about or not. Your final solution did improve on a great drainage idea. I guess some customers are too demanding. I thought about creating a deep pond, but I don't know the topography well enough.

[@GCFD]

I was thinking the same thing, where's the problem? But the homeowners were worrying themselves to death over this.

[@wg8304]

I see the electrical panel there, but why not turn it and put it on the driveway like the original?

[@GCFD]

We could have done that but the run didn't look great. The driveway was higher

[@lioneloconnor4785]

You can highligh the potential failures to the customer based on your experience. Then the customer is aware of the outcome. The onus is on the customer.

[@65antro]

Was the back of the house, part of the earlier job? The gutter outlet hanging so high on the house does not look like your work.

[@GCFD]

No we only did pipe on the front gutters in the first job. 👍

[@bertmunoz7100]

I see how you had little choice and this is just a question. Was there a consideration to take the pipe the other way? Can't really see what's on that side of the house but it looks like you use enough pipe to do so. One more question. What about adding more drop spouts to that run and dividing and directing the water to two other places away from the house? Just wondering.

[@GCFD]

We talked about both of those options. Pumping the water toward the front would have cost more with a pump, basin, and wiring. Adding downspouts is always a great idea but the homeowners didn't think they would look good. We settled on this solution.

[@bertmunoz7100]

@@GCFD Thank you. I think I would have gone with the down downspouts. Is the back of the house, how it looks would have been the least concern. Then again I'm not the client. Great Job specially around those cables.

[@Jetpac74]

Shawn, Ronald and Jeremy - the three amigos are back on our screens - great project Shawn 👍

[@retired0307]

If you split the water discharge into 2 directions that should cut the problem water in half. Yes or no.

[@Mostafa-vs8bd]

Hi You should put water on drive way like last job in this house.

[@GCFD]

The driveway was much higher than this area so we would have to pump it. 👍

[@Lorenejonesbaby99]

How about trying a head cam?

[@kencramer1697]

I don't know that I would turn these jobs down except in extreme cases. I would however update my contract so that several options are available each one highlighting the pros and cons of each option and have the customer sign off on the option chosen as well as sign to indicate which options were rejected.

[@GCFD]

That's a great idea Ken. It would really spell out the differences and expectations.

[@morlamweb]

I disagree with you about not trading problem water next to the house for problem water in the yard. The two problem areas are not equivalent. Water at the foundation seeps into the basement/crawlspace, flooding the area, and givesrise to mold. PRoblem water in the yard just washes away dirt. I'd rather live withthe latter, not the former.

[@GCFD]

I agree Morlam. I often talk about water management in those terms. 👍

[@owbeer]

the area between the trees would be a great spot for a wadi

[@GCFD]

👍

[@kmagnussen1052]

How about a storm water pit? Big hole lots of river rock.

[@glennthetheologian1691]

I'm facing this kind of decision in my own backyard: do I want problem water near my patio or problem water near my shed? Looks like it will either be one or the other. But what this video made me realize is that problem water near my shed will be coming out of the pipe with greater speed.

[@fredrikg120]

Put in a sump-pump and pump it to the street drain.

[@GCFD]

The longer the run of pipe the faster the water will be flowing. You can absorb some of that energy with rock like we did here.

[@glennthetheologian1691]

@@GCFD Thanks for the response. I think that's what I need to do.

[@mikeonthebox]

Why wasn't the solution to pipe the back water towards the front of the house where the solution worked like a charm?

[@GCFD]

We were lower on that back side and had concrete to worry about. I wish we could have done just that!

[@Igor-xl4wz]

Sean, I think an option you may consider for something like this in the future could be a 'dry pond bed'. Instead of making a stream bed of river rock, dig out a little depression line 'pond' with river rock and surround it with more flower beds. Gives you some volume to store, and then absorb by the plantings. Still the volume can overfill the pond, but could give you some area to saturate and hope to contain the stream flow.

[@jimburt5381]

Well said this is what I would do.

[@GCFD]

The landscaper and HO were going to do something very similar to that, but they never did. Then they started calling me back...

[@TroyDashiell]

That’s what I did at my house. My city doesn’t allow us to put gutter water out to the street. My house is up on the side of a hill, so I ended up digging a series dry ponds to catch the gutter water as it worked down the hill.

[@jacksonbennett6151]

You cant vanish the water! the water in the trees is better than up against the house and lawn. I help a family member with a sump discharge and some gutter water. I made a under ground detention system with a stick of 10" pipe and a yard of 3/4" crushed at the edge of the driveway. Also the adjacent area was a known sand layer under a lawn so the water had a way to perc out quickly. well the system was tested with a few inches of rain in 12 hours and it looked like a failure because the system filled and puddled above ground as intended but also overran the driveway and went down the street. Part of the original issue was water freezing in the street from the sump discharge. Turns out that was a fluke storm but even so within a few hours of the rain stopping the puddle subsided below ground and it has work for years since. Even with the problem water moved to a different area, the water was away from the foundation and it wasn't short cycling back into the crawlspace sump. The only better way to do this would have been to cut the street and get a permit to tie into the storm main. Thousands of dollars and city permits and licensed contractors to be rid of the problem water for good. My solution was 95% success I'd say.

[@robertnbryant1586]

Do you employ your guys full time or only as needed? Just curious.

[@resolute01769]

Maybe put it in writing on the contract? Moving the water not solving?

[@gregreelman4526]

Piping the water away from the house's foundation,plant bed,path and lawn was the goal. You did that. Bottom line is the greater good for the property/dwelling.

[@GCFD]

That's a great way to look at it Greg! Make your decision on where you want water problems, right?

[@skitzochik]

Where is the water MORE OF A PROBLEM? Its less of a problem now.

[@GCFD]

So true!

[@Ituser52]

It’s called a dry well……

[@GCFD]

Not with our clay subsoils. I've done those before with horrible results.

[@grinder842004]

I would much rather have a water problem in my yard vs basement/crawlspace..

[@GCFD]

Same. I often talk about water management in those terms. 👍

[@Kalieth99]

It’s difficult to manage “deaf ear” clients like this. Your professionalism shines through for taking the work to begin with, however the time, materials and income loss is too much when you offered to refund.

[@GCFD]

Offering to refund also brought back the original issues (which we resolved) and the homeowners were quick to say no to that. 👍

[@joedoakes8307]

You could have installed some 8 inch 'Sides on each side of the rock to move the water further away from the erosion ! The exposed tree roots on the immediate left side of the rock was probably 'concerning' for the customer even though it looks very superficial in the video ! You could have also laid down some non permeable black plastic then install the rock on top which would slow the water down , keep the water within the rocked area and prevent erosion until the water exited the end of the rocked 'flow' point !

[@GCFD]

We tried to do that with our rocky outfall and I think adding the extra rock did the trick. It slowed the water down enough at the exit point. 👍

[@almosthuman4457]

the system you installed did exactly what it was supposed to do. sometimes you have to draw a plan and an agreement to cover yourself. suggest an array of options spanning all the way to removing the trees and installing a detention pond.

[@GCFD]

Haha that's a great idea! Go to the nth degree and when they don't want to do that they know to live with the imperfect solution 👍

[@Walter-wf8kd]

1st Super Thanks.🙂

[@GCFD]

Thank you Walter!

[@mikeknoll1130]

Not being there it’s hard to give you a solution…generally the solution is going to be much more expensive if possible ( like putting in a pump and pumping it to a desirable location), or just flat out refuse the job.

[@GCFD]

I think next time I may not take the job Mike. It's tricky to know what to do.

[@BobDevV]

Wouldn't digging a 1-1.5m into the ground and filling it with rocks solved it? Your solution keeps the water on the surface and making the stone go deep, it would make the water go under and have more space to fill. Heck, I have seen people digging straight down, 2-3 meter into the ground and putting wide culvert pipe vertically and terminating the drainage that way. Fill the pipe with small stone and water will get absorbed, you can even make overfill pipe go sideways and go onto another drain pipe, like you would do with at home sewage treatment. To me, this is just you trying to make quick, cheap solution, rather than trying to fix the problem. The excuse is that you have no good place to terminate but there are solutions, they are just much more involved. Blaming the customer does not solve your lack of foresight - you are the expert, should have seen this coming.

[@martinworrall5888]

You did the best job for that situation. You can’t plan for hurricanes.

[@GCFD]

Great point Martin, thanks!

[@nathang.1561]

i wanna know where people got this idea that drainage water has to stay on your own property. the whole world would have to be divided up into terraced rice paddies if you didnt have a right to dump it on your downhill neighbor, and even then it would flow to the lower property in a storm anyway

[@musicalchairs56]

They probably don't want to be sued or cause a problem with the neighbors. Once you start moving water around and collecting and conveying it, you never know who you might piss off downstream.

[@GCFD]

Very true Nathan!

[@GCFD]

Here, property owners are not responsible for water flowing off their property, but directing a pipe at a neighbor is pretty obvious..

[@edsonsebold]

Third here.

[@GCFD]

👍

[@usmc1992usmc]

Always good to see a new video. Not every job can be a clean success. Sometimes you gotta take what life deals to you and make the best of it. I would say you did that.

[@GCFD]

Thank you! This was a pain for sure