Oxygen Not Included - Critter Tutorial Bites - Shove Voles

[@Tennouseijin]

Considering my ultimate goal for every base is the 'completionist' approach, to have every food available to dupes, ranch every creature morph, farm every plant, have every recreational device available to dupes etc. - skipping curried beans is not an option. On the bright side, since it's enough to have a given food available/produced, but any quantity is sufficient for it to count, a single delecta vole is plenty. And feeding it perfect temperature food just sounds like one of the endgame things to do, because why not.

[@Luma_plays]

Great Tutorial and perfect timing :D. At this moment working on the video for shove vole ranch Nr. 4 with a delectavole buffer (regaining the eggs). Same method as you mentioned. Feed them every 9 cycles (or when there are 2 delectavoles feed them every cycle to increase the chance of them actually resetting the starvation timer)

[@MedullanAutononomous]

So what if we just filter out the delectavole eggs and feed them in an extreme environment to get shovevole eggs back?

[@StainlessHelena]

The introduction of Delecta Voles seems like a slight nerf to the OP but definitely convenient starvation ranch. If the Curried Beans or maybe pills made from Tonic Root gave dupes heat resistance and e.g. made them able to walk through magma while wearing an atmo suit, I could see them be used. The yield from sheering Delectas needs a big increase.

[@GCFungus]

I agree, but I think it was actually quite a big nerf because with nothing to reduce the numbers then starvation ranching shove voles before was literally an infinite sustainable food source with basically no downsides. Delectavoles need quite a strong buff to make them viable, but ONI has never been about balancing all things so I would be surprised to see it change any time soon.

[@ironboy3245]

@@GCFungus with that farm setup, do you ever need to worry about random escapees? I feel like the access should be in the roof right?

[@GCFungus]

@@ironboy3245 No critters can get through doors when they're set to auto, and as long as the walls are all made out of unburrowable material you won't have any escapes. The escape risk with shove voles is them making natural tiles in awkward places (including inside doors) and then using those to burrow through, so if you're doing minimum feed or starvation ranches that's not an issue, and if you're feeding them then make sure there's 2 robo miners to cover the whole ranch, the door and each other.

[@ironboy3245]

@@GCFungus can they not walk out when dupes walk in?

[@GCFungus]

@@ironboy3245 No, I believe there is a hard coded stop to prevent them from doing that, otherwise critters would be escaping all the time I think.

[@Girthquake]

I was just looking for a video on Shove Voles from you yesterday so perfect timing dude!

[@mystereit73]

U make the best oni tutorials... By far! Thank you

[@mystereit73]

@@gaydonaldtrump Did I give you any indication of wanting your opinion? If so, please accept my sincerest apologies 😊

[@GOWERx94]

you're a legend for all of these concise bites. I've learnt so much from all of these. thanks mate!

[@brianmichaelh]

I literally was about to start on shove voles. Perfect timing!

[@chriswhittington5790]

Haven't played oni in a hot minute, but in my main colony I have a uncontrolled shove vole population in my ranch, didn't expect how many eggs they'd drop if fed every now and then. It's to the point I have to purge them every few cycles to keep up frame rate 😂

[@SamWinters]

Very helpful! One notable problem so far has been the sweeper not picking up eggs, so my breeder ranch gets filled up with voles. Had to expand it for a pickup spot to wrangle them. Edit: which obviously wasn't a problem when pick-up and drop-off were all one item.

[@gd_fallen3188]

Please do a gassy moo tutorial, there are like 0 tutorial on them

[@GCFungus]

I'll get through all the critters, including the Gassy Moo, but I must admit it's towards the bottom of the list because in my opinion it's simply the least useful critter unfortunately.

[@DaronTalon]

​@@GCFungus Yeah, solar panels are easier and produce maybe a little less power, and chlorine is better spent by making bleach stone which you can use for lettuce or hot tubs for morale, or for geotuning water vents and geysers (which outranks the nat gas water production). Another problem of gassy moos is that they require duplicant labor on a planetoid with only a chlorine vent, where placing solar panels and either infinetly storing the chlorine for later or setting up interplanetary launchers is really simple to setup and can be left unsupervised forever. I feel like either gassy moos need a rework, or gas grass should stop requiring illumination. (There used to be an option for gas grass to drop exuberant seeds which required darkness but they removed that from the game)

[@spikygamer987]

​@@GCFunguseven after the Song of Moo update ?

[@GCFungus]

@@spikygamer987Actually I think the Song of the Moo update made them much more viable as you now don't have to go to space to get more, and they have a purpose in making brackene. Even with that I'd now say they're somewhat useful and not amazing, although much better than before.

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

Nobody has made a youtuber level farm on the forums yet, so it's really hard to focus on it because it hasn't been done already. You might know exactly what that's like.

[@mickuijldert]

Another great tutorial, keep it up!

[@viniciusalves9098]

thanks for the great content

[@unothecard21]

great tutorial and voice

[@realityextractor1956]

It's bizarre, for minimal feed ranching and having the critter feeder to priority 1, and yet dupes will drop of 2 kg of regolith even though other higher priority tasks are available, no idea what to make of that

[@shaneh1003]

Priorities..

[@MathewSan_]

Great video 👍🔝

[@nyagibyte]

This is such a good tutorial ty, very useful

[@akselbering291]

In the base game, you can get around 55 kg/s of regolith if you harvest from the entire space biome.

[@GCFungus]

Do you have a source for that info? It sounds in the right ballpark to me, and that would be 33t/cycle which should feed about 9 voles. But I'm also assuming that's base game? The spaced out DLC numbers are probably even less well known as so few players set themselves up on the regolith planetoid.

[@NailsnTape]

oh my god the NUBS

[@commonsense-og1gz]

a couple of things to point out: 1. dirt to feed voles will be best produced from ethanol distillers. this is way more effective over pips for such a large task. 2. voles are frequently brought in through the printing pod. i get so many offers that i don't have to focus on actual ranches. i haven't yet worked with the delecta voles, so i don't know if wild ones have the ability to keep the 12% cycle growth rate when they eat. if you have tested this, then how effective is non starvation ranching of them, and if ranching them, is it possible to keep the scales growing while in the glum state, only feeding them without grooming them?

[@toxyjohn]

Great video, useful stuff to know. Maybe the in-game database should link to your channel :p

[@Firebuck]

I gave this a think, and I wonder if a better shove vole ranch design is to have only 2k/9cycles not-quite-starving breeder stables and send all the eggs to an evolution chamber. (Hold back however many eggs you need for replacement in incubators, of course.) My concern is that the starvation stables require more labour and time-to-meat. In your design a newly hatched critter takes 5 cycles to grow up, 5.88 to lay a replacement egg, and another 8 or 9 cycles to finish starving. About 19 cycles total, requiring grooming for 14 cycles. Drowning the eggs gives you the meat with zero labour, immediately after hatching. Less lag too.

[@Sustenance_]

Evolving them just gets rid of dupe labor compared to starvation ranching once you build a buffer, no? If you starvation ranch them eventually you will have enough voles that their deaths are offset, and you're getting consistent meat also you have the advantage that since you have built up a buffer even if you stop feeding the breeder vole you will still produce meat from the voles in the starvation ranch for a while (depending on the delectivole luck).

[@GCFungus]

You can do that, but if you drown the eggs then you are losing all of the free meat that they will bring. A fed shove vole will lay an egg every 6 cycles. And the starvation ranched unincubated shove vole will take about 30 cycles to complete its reproduction cycle, so that means 5 starvation voles make the same amount of meat as 1 fed vole. If you simply let the starvation ranch build up, then the starvation ranch will make many times more meat than the fed vole and requires no resources. Of course that does take some dupe labour and can impact the frames, but generally these trade-offs are worth it for the barbecue (at least up the point the framerate becomes an issue!).

[@Firebuck]

@@GCFungus I've run starvation vole ranches in the pre-delecta past, so I understand where you are coming from. Given the massive food requirement I've never considered a breeder ranch. But since we have to maintain some breeders forever now my question is does it make sense to simply raise voles like other critters. Take stone hatches. Same lifespan, same 5.88 egg laying cadence when tamed. We send the extra eggs to drowning and they build up in numbers quite well there -- pmce the start hatching they give 3200 kcal meat per farmed hatch every 5.88 cycles. The cost in minerals fed during the 5.88 cycles is about 0.26kg per kcal. Same math with voles: for 1307kg regolith fed in 5.88 cycles, about 0.08kg per kcal. That's pretty thrifty unless you have something better to do with the regolith. Is it better than slicksters? Or hatches with their useful byproducts? Typically not. But situationally it's not bad at all.

[@danielschons7691]

8:17 does this still work with the changes to ranching?

[@GCFungus]

Yes, both starvation and minimum feed ranching should work still.

[@kinderdm]

I am wondering the same thing tonight. I don't think it does. There doesn't seem to be any "reset" to starvation. When I feed them 2kg, they get a a tiny amount of calories which they very quickly burn through. The very second they reach 0 calories, which happens almost instantly when they only eat 2kg, they then begin starving again and reproduction drops to 2% per cycle immediately. I guess the only way to ranch them anymore is to at have a breeder that you can feed at their required levels, with is a ton of regolith in the DLC. 4800 kg per cycle isn't so easy to keep up with.

[@Tannoch0]

In the minimum feed ranch my dupes are still supplying the critter feeder, I've set it's priority to 1 but that's not worked. I'm not sure if ranching supply used to be part of the supply priority and now it has been merged into the ranching priority because it displays in both priority descriptions but whatever it is I can't seem to stop my ranchers from regularly supplying it with dirt. Any thoughts?

[@GCFungus]

Yes I should have made an improvement to the ranch in the video - if you hide the critter feeder behind a 3 tile high wall then the dupes can't reach it but the autosweeper and shove voles can so that will solve the issue but does need a redesign.

[@Tannoch0]

Thanks for this, I adjusted the room as you suggested and it's working perfectly. @@GCFungus

[@Lorens4444]

I avoid starvation ranches and evolution chambers. Can I sustain 5 happy shove voles with regolith, or do I have to add dirt as well? How many conveyor rails do I need in this case? Can I use conveyor shoot instead of recepticles, autosweepers, and feeders?

[@GCFungus]

You can use either regolith or dirt, and at full rate that's 4.8t/cycle per vole, so if you had 5 that would be 24t/cycle. Making that amount of dirt sustainably is extremely difficult, but you can get it from regolith meteor showers, so I would just go with regolith only. Doing the maths, a single conveyor rail full of 20kg packets can move 12t/cycle. So you'd need exactly 2 to feed those 5, but I would be tempted to include a third just in case. I think conveyor chutes are fine for feeding them yes.

[@Lorens4444]

@@GCFungus I see. Unfortunately, vole eggs are the same as most other eggs, so evolution chamber is nesessary.

[@E-TownCSGO]

Hey mate! Great video! I encountered some problems using the minimum feed ranch. My shove voles have 20% chance of laying a Delecta vole egg. This keeps destroying the shove vole population. I have tried to research how to lower the chance of a Delecta vole egg but I could not find it. English is not my first language so i might have missed it. Do you know why the percentage is this high?

[@GCFungus]

Are they being hatched with 20% or does that increase over time? Aa far as I know, you cannot decrease the delecta vole chance once it has raised. The only way is to not raise it in the first place, which happens when their body temperature is between 60 and 100 degrees. So keep your ranch at a different temperature than that basically.

[@kevinhong8146]

I was having this issue too, because my shove vole ranch is around 30C, the voles' body temp would start lowering into the 60-100C range from the 120C or higher when they hatch and increase their Delecta vole egg chance once they mature. The solution is to either ranch them in vacuum, or make the ranch temp even lower so the baby vole's body temp drops below 60C before they start producing eggs.

[@macdjord]

I'm not sure if your math on curried beans is correct. True, you can only produce 12,000kC of it per cycle, enough to fully feed 12 dupes - but getting the Hot Stuff buff only requires a dupe to have eaten _some_ curry in the last two cycles; it doesn't require them to get all their calories from it. At the very least you ought to be able to sustain 24 dupes with the buff by feeding them curry on alternate cycles; if there's some clever method of making supes eat less than 1000kC in a single meal, this number goes up. Also, can you use the minimal-feeding method to grow Tonic Root?

[@GCFungus]

There isn't a convenient way to limit them, and my main concern is always sustaining them rather than just buffing them. I'm quite sure you need to feed the delectas to get the scale growth, so it's a nightmare. Ironically, the best way is probably with the critter flux-o-matic which gives ready to shear delectas.

[@javicerverafrias7675]

I'd love to see a divergent critter tutorial, i just like them, even tho rhey might be a lil outclassed

[@GCFungus]

It's definitely on the list, and I suspect my Patrons and Subscribers may well vote for that one very soon!

[@iSqueam]

Why are there no robo miners in the minimum feed setup? Can’t it still make a blob of dirt/regolith on minimum feed settings? Also, if minimum feeding, how many pips per vole?

[@GCFungus]

I thought it might and originally included miners in my set-up, but after testing they never did - I assume because they never reach enough mass to produce a tile. That's why I removed them as they weren't necessary. At minimum feed they should eat around 200g per cycle on average, so you could feed 100 shove voles from 1 single pip!

[@gilsingameplays6271]

Mais um video excelente!!

[@TubeTAG]

Now I kinda wanna see someone make a Curried Bean powered base with like... 24 dupes.

[@Tamizushi]

I mean, you can still shear the occasional unlucky delecta vole.

[@GCFungus]

Of course, and if you get them then why not? - assuming you have some nosh beans around which are a rarer food to make anyway.

[@Tamizushi]

@@GCFungus Actually, now that I think of it, would delecta voles die from starvation if they were created from a Critter Flux-O-Matic? TBH, that's still nor worth it calorie wise.

[@GCFungus]

@@Tamizushi Good question, and I've not tried it but I think the answer is yes. But you can only do this every 5 cycles so it's not a particularly strong or convenient way to do it.

[@Tamizushi]

@@GCFungus Unless something changed, you can actually use the fluc-o-matic every 540 seconds (.9 cycle) so that's 11,111 kcals of Curried Beans per cycle you could produce like this in theory. Still not really worth it because those calories are directly removed from the amount of BBQ you'd get from a regular shove vole and it adds an additional nosh bean requirement. In my experience, flux-o-matics are best used as a path to speed up your first batch of plastic (from glossy dreckos) and later on as a way to upgrade sweetles into grubgrubs to get more calories from them.

[@DanieleVergini]

feeder at priority 1 is replenished continuously by dupes if they are idle... any solution?

[@GCFungus]

You should be able to hide it behind some tiles so the voles can access it but the dupes can't.

[@FluffyKi]

I feel bad starvation ranching in general. feels exploity to me. Any thoughts on the value of delectavoles under that condition?

[@GCFungus]

If it feels exploity then you can always choose another way. I'm not sure I fully got your question, but if you're asking if you can starvation ranch delectavoles then no you can't as I mentioned in the video. In terms of feeding them normally, then yes you can do that but they will make half the meat of a shove vole so it would just be worse.

[@FluffyKi]

Thank you for your input. I was just saying I don't like starvation ranching.

[@sdcurry2]

After some initial testing, it looks like the recent Packed Snacks update breaks minimum feed ranch designs. After feeding 2 kg of regolith or dirt, the starvation timer of the ranched shove vole resets, but then immediately goes back to starving, giving it a -10 to happiness and changing it's mood to Glum. This reduces their reproduction rate to 2% instead of 17%. In testing, I've found that the minimum they need to be fed is exactly their kcal use per cycle (4800 kcal or 4800 kg). Even when Groomed (+5 happiness), Cozy (+1 happiness), and Hydrated (+5 happiness), the highest possible mood is Satisfied at 0 total happiness. As a happy mood (+900% reproduction rate) is needed to lay more than 1 egg in the shove vole's lifetime, I don't believe minimum feed shove vole ranches are possible anymore. At least, not with domestic shove voles. I have not tested this using wild shove voles. If anyone has found otherwise, please feel free to correct me or offer modifications.

[@GCFungus]

I don't believe this is correct but need to double check. The starvation ranching should still work as it relies on the calories they are born with to lay an egg before they run out which is still the case. Minimum feed ranching should also still work because they lay their first egg before cycle 50 and they die at 100 cycles old, so the result is a second egg laid - which is how it worked before the patch also. As you say in this condition they should be groomed +5, tame -1 and starving -10 for a net -6. This is still enough to give the 2% reproduction rate which is exactly how it worked before too, so no effective change. The minimum fed ranching always relied on the 2% rate.

[@sdcurry2]

@@GCFungus Thanks for responding. Good to know. I don't think I fully caught that bit in your video. I guess that's why you scaled up to 6 minimum feed ranches lol

[@mohamadbz4741]

Can you double check? Because this doesn't seem to work in the Packed Snacks update. The shove's egg production rate decreases to 2%/cycle and the creature will NOT die because the starvation timer resets when eats 2kg of food. And survives forever as far as i'm testing@@GCFungus

[@GCFungus]

@@mohamadbz4741 That is the point of the minimum feed ranch and it works the same now as it did before. They are born with a lot of calories so lay their first egg using the tame levels. Then they get a good way through laying the second before they run out of calories and drop down to the 2% rate. But this rate is enough to lay the second egg before they die, which they do at 100 cycles old. The ranch is intended to keep them alive for long enough to lay their second egg, which is most of their life span. You can then starvation ranch the overflow.

[@mohamadbz4741]

@@GCFungus ah, i see. Got it. Thanks for the explanation!

[@stefanocau4652]

I built the minimum feed ranch and it works but sometimes dupes still refill the critter feeder manually, even if it is on priority 1. Is there any way to stop the dups?

[@GCFungus]

Yes, I realized after I made this that it should be possible to simply hide the critter feeder behind 3 tiles with a gap above so dupes can't reach it but the shove voles can. I think that should work.

[@stefanocau4652]

Mh, yeah that makes sense, thanks!

[@SargentExon]

@@stefanocau4652 or you could install the mod to deselect or select "allow manual use" for the feeder :)

[@APS_Inc]

I'm curious, how has this changed following the critter happiness changes?

[@GCFungus]

I think I answered a number of comments because it seems a common misconception that it affected this ranch design when it didn't. Shove voles can still be starvation or minimum feed ranched exactly the same.

[@LittleMew133]

I don't think they can dig through mesh tiles? I have that setup atm and they kinda just stick their heads into the tiles but not going through.

[@SpottedHares]

I though that at 2% decay rate that means you only need three extra eggs per 100 shove vole per 150 cycles to maintain your ranch?

[@GCFungus]

It will depend on whether the eggs are incubated or not. To go through the numbers, an unincubated egg takes 20 cycles to hatch, 5 cycles to mature and 6 cycles to lay another egg. That means every 31 cycles you'll lose 2% of your voles to delectas. If I take your example of 100 voles and 150 cycles, then this cycle will happen 5 times so you would need to replace around 5x0.02x100=10 voles. Note that is a simplification and the real rate would compound (so 2% of 100, then 2% of 98, then 96, etc.) meaning you would need to replace fractionally less. If incubated then their incubation time reduces to 4 cycles, and the total cycle time is 15 cycles - which is why you get roughly double the meat output. But the cycle would happen twice as often, so you'd lose 20 voles in your example. Again that's a simplification, so the actual maths comes out to just over 18 on average.

[@anibarukyouran1145]

owww what a bummer, I wanted my colony to have all available foods but those curry beans seems not whorty at all :[

[@blainemorin]

Does anyone know what the average calorie generation is for minimum feed starvation range?

[@GCFungus]

So the calorie generation really comes from the starvation ranches themselves and not from the minimum feed breeders - the minimum feed shove voles keep adding to or maintaining the starvation ranch area (up to around 30 voles can be sustained in the starvation ranch per minimum feed room). The calorie output from the starvation ranched voles is about 650kcal/cycle if the egg is unincubated, or around 1200kcal/cycle if incubated. Assuming you have a reasonable number in the starvation ranch then you'll probably get a mix so just multiply somewhere in the middle by the number of shove voles you have in the starvation ranches. That is really the key number here in terms of meat production, and each minimum feed ranch will produce 2 eggs in its 100 cycle lifetime, adding 1 extra egg to the breeder ranch, so it's quite slow...

[@blainemorin]

@@GCFungus Thanks for the reply. Let me know if I'm understanding the maths correctly here. Does that mean one full starvation ranch (let's say 30 voles) can produce 650kcal * 30 = 19,500kcal per cycle?

[@GCFungus]

@@blainemorin Yes, unincubated that is correct. They are a very powerful method of making meat with little resource inputs.

[@5P_OFFICIAL]

How they can jump on ceilings? 💀

[@GCFungus]

Shove vole magic.

[@thespacecowboy420]

Thanks for not posting a short.

[@GCFungus]

Haha, no worries - I don't think I could cover the entirety of any critter in under a minute!

[@fruity4820]

Does anyone knows if wild critter will lay more than one egg over their lifetime? I may or may not cuase a shove vole infestation on my planetoid😅

[@GCFungus]

Wild critters always lay one egg unless prevented. That way wild populations stay the same, making ranching the way to get more.

[@samueltrusik3251]

Inefficient pigs.

[@ethanblack5642]

I comment to help statistics

[@GCFungus]

The algorithm thanks you.

[@philippark587]

g

[@jim01q]

All your "bites" have been done bigger, better, before. Your late to the party, pal.

[@brianmichaelh]

Disagree on better. I really appreciate the style of these bites. Someone puts the time in to create free content for the community and you criticise. Are you so miserable you have to try to make others feel bad to make yourself happy?