Cheap Vs Expensive Wheels & Tyres | What's The Difference?

[@gcntech]

Have you noticed a big change from upgrading your tyres or wheels?

[@groovvvirgo]

Mostly in my pocketbook and my elitist ego but I do prefer to go faster so I don't mind.

[@Mububban23]

I replaced a stock ~2.1kg alloy wheelset (Giant PR2 disc) with a 1.5kg carbon set (Prime RP-38), and on the same undulating terrain on my commute, I'll be 1-2 gears faster as it no longer feels like I'm riding through treacle whenever the road points upwards. And when I coast on a downhill, I get further on the uphill before running out of momentum. Spinning them up to speed just feels so much easier too. For me it's been money so well spent, I stopped thinking of entire bike upgrades. So spending $3000.

[@SrFederico]

5 things: - 50mm carbon wheels are stiffer than the old basic Cube aluminium rims, so cornering is so much more precise and ensuring - at least well constructed ones work better in crosswinds; so my new 50mm Leeze wheels are way less affected by strong croos winds than the 32 mm basic crap - they seem to be much more comfortable than the old basic rims (however you combine lateral stiffness with vertical compliance, but yes they did it) - latex inner tubes are much more comfortable - Victoria Corsa G2 is much more comfortable than Conti GP 5000 But is all that way much faster? Not really, not in the realm of speeed I’m in.

[@N2TheOcean]

When I upgraded to 50mm carbons, the difference in my performance and average speed were both gratifyingly notable.

[@IDYLBERRY]

I've noticed changing to performance tires and tubes to be faster and require less energy. Had more flats using performance tires with latex tubes plus tires wore out quicker. Went to Gatorskins, Tuffy strips, and Slime tubes. It's slowed me from 18.5mph to 17.5mph average over 31 miles. One flat in 22 months. It would be helpful to some to show the drag coefficient and rolling resistance of the components on a chart.

[@NeilCaplan]

Right then, Alex, back up again with the better tyres and tubes on the alloy wheels. It's what the people want 😉

[@JayLato]

Yes get on the phone with Pirelli and get 2 brand new sets of tires/inner tubes and chop chop.

[@Bluesman2509]

Very minimal difference on the climb that's for sure...

[@GCNalex]

😂 I best jump on a flight back over to the climb for this test, maybe I can make it there and back in one day 😎

[@Bluesman2509]

@@GCNalex Good excuse to escape this appalling UK weather!

[@mO-rg7yk]

It's not what the sponsor want..

[@cjohnson3836]

$700 for an "entry" wheelset with a 105 hub...$700 is what an entire entry bike was priced pre-covid, and is still 70-80% of a full entry bike now. These are not entry wheels. Entry wheels are $250 tops and set up with a Claris or Sora freehub driver

[@Saliamonas14]

Exactly what is was going to write

[@jeskli11]

You're right the Vision's they've used aren't exactly budget wheelset, but I suspect they won't be noticibly quicker than those $250 wheels you're writing about, it's more about the hub bearings and spokes, which make for better power transfer and more precise cornering. And if you're current wheels are worth $250 and bike $700, you're probably not going to switch to $2000 wheelset anyway to be honest.

[@patrykK1028]

Yeah I could buy a used R7000 carbon Trek for just a bit more than their entry level wheels lmao

[@NoahStephens]

Why are you poor?

[@toozydude2]

Would have been good to have the wheels and tyres swapped separately, i.e. 4 combinations. So we can see how much difference is attributed to the tires and wheels separately.

[@liamkaloy]

on the flat there will be marginal difference carbon vs alu with same tires/inner tube when riding solo and in group (while not being 1st) there will no measurable difference. On the hill carbon will have marginal gain due to reduced weight. In their test, in practice they compared cheap tire/butyl vs race tire/latex and not carbon vs alu wheels.

[@mrstanhope1516]

Throw disc brakes into the mix and that could be 8 runs up the mountain. Would be interesting what the quickest versus slowest combination is.

[@RichardMigneron]

Throw in Tubeless vs Latex in, and you've got 16 runs up the mountain 😂

[@ivancajka732]

Nobody puts cheap tires on expensive wheels

[@SignorLuigi]

I love GCN. But they (understandably) did their best to try to hype up Carbon wheels and their sponsor, Zipp, until the very end when they had to come clean and state that the tires and tubes were the major factor contributing to the varied results. It's a tough balancing act GCN has to manage as a company so dependent on sponsor dollars. I would love to see the exact same tires and tubes run on the Carbon and Aluminum wheels for a comparison experiment. I think the results would give the average enthusiast rider significant pause before spending a thousand dollars and more on Carbon wheels. I'm sure some other KZbin channel has done that.

[@apm9507]

"You get what you pay for" vs "A fool and his money are soon parted" are two conflicting bits of advice every cyclist needs to keep in their minds while shopping for cycling parts and bikes.

[@themindgarage8938]

"Strong, cheap, light: pick two" is what they say. As someone who races flat triathlons, I'm team strong and cheap. But aero and rolling resistance matter - a good pair of tyres (tubeless or with latex inner tubes) will be the cheapest 1kph you will ever buy, and will also feel nicer and corner better.

[@coreygolphenee9633]

Its a contact point and some of the weight you feel the most so its a get what you pay for

[@drivemenuts3011]

No you don't! The performance improvement from a £2000 upgrade is only 2% more than a £500 upgrade. If you got what you paid for, you would expect a 400% improvement.

[@jmorrison5206]

You pay for what you get. Whether you get what you pay for varies quite a lot.

[@aliancemd]

I understand they want to make their sponsor's more expensive wheels look better but not using the same tires just muddies the results and could just mean that most of that is due to better rolling resistance. Might as well put GP5000 S TR on the cheaper wheels and show which wheel is better.

[@cjohnson3836]

I mean, they literally say its mostly the tires at least 4 times

[@SignorLuigi]

@@cjohnson3836 Yor're right. But they said it multiple times at the END of the video. Only then did the viewer realize the video was much ado about nothing regarding carbon vs. aluminum wheels.

[@florinovidiumatei4233]

@@SignorLuigi Because this video was an advertising for Vision.

[@SignorLuigi]

@@florinovidiumatei4233 Truth! 👍

[@zondaboy6493]

@@cjohnson3836 Doesn't matter, it's still dishonest.

[@danielbiederman5408]

I just made this type of upgrade. On an aluminium BMC Teammachine with entry level wheels I swapped to Zipp 303S wheels. Tire size went from 25mm to tubeless 28mm. I ride at roughly 180 watts. Speed increase for me was just under 2% on my first test using a route I've ridden 20 times according to Strava.

[@florinovidiumatei4233]

@Gokyo I think not.

[@glennoc8585]

That's not much of a gain

[@danielbiederman5408]

@@glennoc8585 Agreed, 2% isn't that much. I shared the results as I'd like to see more feedback like this from riders who aren't averaging 4 watts per kg. I believe I may later see better than 2% improvement, as my initial "test" was on a windier than usual day, which I am assuming negatively impacted the result. Averaging 18.2 mph on these rolling hills is also not a recipe for maximizing aero gains, but I think this is a realistic picture of what many riders would experience. The 28mm tires made for a more comfortable ride, especially over expansion joints in bridges.

[@bnzboy]

@Gokyo it's worth it for us amateurs if we look cooler

[@truthseeker8483]

@@bnzboy 😀

[@jonburnell532]

I went from some old box section wheels to a 30mm alu set that weigh about 1,500g, and some quicker tires. Around £450 all in and the difference was definitely noticeable.

[@drivemenuts3011]

I did the same. Spend another £1500 and you can get an additional 10%. Not worth it. It's a pity that this manipulative video doesn't frame it this way.

[@gcntech]

Sounds like a good investment Jon!

[@jungmo7576]

lovin the rim brakes alex, you're using them as much as i though you would and it matches the jersey so thats a plus.

[@JamesSmith-vz8yr]

I gave a thumbs up just for the rim brakes.

[@sail5820]

Same

[@liamkaloy]

actually a lot more interesting test would be expensive carbon wheels with cheap tires and butyl vs cheap alu wheels with race tires + latex. Gladly most of us already know the results and that is why such test will be not publish on $$$GCN$$$.

[@ili4707]

Why would you have cheap tires on an expensive wheel? If you can afford such a wheel you can afford the tire

[@liamkaloy]

@@ili4707 It's not a matter if you can afford an expensive wheel, it is a matter if you actually need one. I would argue that unless you participate in a pro race where those 60s over 100km makes a huge difference you don't need an expensive wheel. Outside of the pro race you will just arrive home one minute later, and you could not even tell if this would be the case without a time stopper, because you will feel no difference between expensive and cheap wheel - you can only measure it.

[@red2lucas]

@@ili4707$2500 vs about $200. What on earth are you on about?

[@apm9507]

Locally used bikes beat cheap and new bikes. A used bike often has less than 100 miles on it. The cost is usually 25% to 50% off a new bike for the same quality of a new bike. A cheap bike in my experience means more time in repairs. Buy a used bike. People get into cycling, slowly give up, don't cycle, then all but give away a brand new bike.

[@bubblesezblonde]

shhh! I have my eye on a carbon fiber crossbike that is about 75% off....the nubs arent even worn off of the tyres. As they flashed the 'cheap' wheel cost, I was just thinking the same notion. I have learned that high end tubes/tyres are a great upgrade.

[@apm9507]

@@bubblesezblonde I'm looking forward to hearing you got your bike!

[@paulbusby2013]

As someone who recently bought a pair of Hunt 35 Carbon Aero Disc wheels, I'm pleased upgraded wheels are slightly faster but you guys need to test one & not two things at a time so may I suggest next time, you stick to the same tyres. I won't ask you to average over a number of runs!

[@feedbackzaloop]

You still ask for a grid search. Congratulations on a set of Hunts, but I'd rather recomend putting this money into a course on experiment design to learn about multi factor analysis methods. In fact, they were testing three parameters at a time and it's still possible

[@paulbusby2013]

@@feedbackzaloop - would you rather? That will have to wait, I'm afraid - I've spent the money with no intention of using Hun't generous grace period. As for MFA, that works fine & saves time when the outcome can be attributed to one cause but is bad methodology when an outcome could be caused by several. If we are going to split hairs, only 3 variables? It's about knowing which one are insignificant & the desired accuracy. MFA is highly useful for certain data sets but not all, that's why there are alternatives. Of course, you already know that.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@paulbusby2013 I believe this is exactly the case for MFA, where we know in prior the general influence and there is a physics model to back up. Plus, you need to minimize the number of runs, it's not computer science with massive matrixes here, should you bring up the data set vocabulary. But hey, you got the Hunts, I got the degree - we both spent money on overpriced hyped junk.

[@paulbusby2013]

@@feedbackzaloop - the number of runs was minimised! The point of repeating runs is to average out the noise of hidden variables but this was never going to be terribly definitive anyway. Out of interest, what "overpriced hyped junk" have you bought?

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@paulbusby2013 you kinda confuse repetitions of same experiment with performing different runs. But agree, that makes sense in terms of statistics and reproducibility of the experiment, which is not the case of this video. In other words, you don't need to run up and down the hill 50 times, but also you don't need to run around swapping, mixing and matching everything. I was referring to an admission fee for a master at one TU9 University.

[@richcrompton6891]

Bloody cheek! I upgraded to Vision Team 30’s! 🤣 my Bontrager SSR’s were the entry level wheels! Your top line wheels are over 4 times what my old Trek 1.5 cost new! I would have liked an extra level of science where you use the ‘entry level’ wheels and add the better tyres and tubes or tubeless. I saw massive gains on my local Strava segments when I put my new wheels on, but kept the old tyres. What would better tyres have done? I will find out when the weather improves and I fit some decent rubber!

[@drivemenuts3011]

It is a manipulative sales video.

[@richcrompton6891]

@@drivemenuts3011 🤣 It didn't do a good job on me then! But I do need some better tyres!

[@KarlosEPM]

@@richcrompton6891 Hi ! I own two Trek bikes: a mtb (3500 26x2.0) and a hybrid/commuter (DS 8.2 700x35). Wheels on the mtb are superb for my peaceful riding (no jumps), the ones on the hybrid not so much (flexy, went out of true weekly, had two axles break on the rear, rim hoop deformed in two years). In spite of adequate maintenance, I quickly wore down the commuter's rims and upgraded to generic amazon rims with great results!! The Bontrager tires have a very good rubber compound (long lasting, grippy with and low rolling resistance) but are prone to punctures, which is why I upgraded to Schwalbe Marathon as rear wheel for my commuter.

[@richcrompton6891]

@@KarlosEPM I recently bought some GP5000’s for the Vision wheels. Wow! What a difference! Faster, smoother, more grip! Maybe Schwalbe next time 😊

[@KarlosEPM]

@@richcrompton6891 Thanks for your reply :) . Schwalbe Marathon and now also Marathon Plus are critically acclaimed puncture resistant tires. They are the staple for long multi-day adventures, and popular for commuters as well. However, they roll as swiftly as continental drift XD, and have poor traction on wet surfaces. The Marathon Plus has an "eco shield" which is a thick rubber patch that runs under the central thread protecting the inner tube. It feels gelatinous if not properly inflated, funny to be honest. But supremely puncture resistant. Ride safe!

[@suhdud4646]

Ollie's intro line is pure bliss and how cycling makes me feel. Interesting to see that the mighty rim brake rims made a re-appearance.

[@gcntech]

That's how cycling should make us all feel!!

[@nsjohnston]

This doesn't show us how cheap vs. expensive wheels compare as you added multiple variables into the experiment. I've contemplated spending money on expensive wheels over the years, but have never gone about the £500 mark. I have cheap sub -£100 shimano wheels, and I have handbuilt hope pro3 wheels, and some aluminium deep sections. I'm not sure I feel any difference between the wheel sets, the hub noise and look are very different, but I don't know if I feel faster on one pair over another. I can feel a difference changing from winter to summer tyres.

[@rcs2003]

It shows expensive and very expensive wheelsets.

[@truthseeker8483]

cheap Shimano wheels are underrated.....mine have been very good especially after loosening off the bearing adjustment that seems too tight from new.

[@MattSwain1]

I’ve upgraded the wheels on the last 2 bikes I’ve bought and Strava segment times show the difference really clearly both times. Particularly if you’ve bought a low to mid range bike then a wheel upgrade can make a massive difference

[@sventice]

I'm being a bit of a hypocrite here, since I recently spent a lot of money on a carbon wheelset, but I totally agree that a tyre upgrade is much more noticeable than upgrading just about any other part of your bike. (For gravel riding, changing cranksets can be even more significant.) If you're primarily concerned about weight, the easiest, least costly, and most effective way to shed weight from your setup is simply to lose a kg or two from your own body mass.

[@gcntech]

Very true!

[@JasonDBike]

It ain't that easy though.

[@CHEVYbarracuda1]

@@JasonDBike it is if you watch how you fuel your body

[@shepshape2585]

I've said it many, many times on this channel. If you want to pay huge money for carbon wheels, be my guest, it's your money. However, if you'd rather save your money, Super Team carbon wheels are truly fantastic wheels for less than $400. I've been riding a pair of the 38mm wheels for three years now and put thousands of miles on them and they're still as true as day one and still look great. I bought mine on Amazon on sale for just under $300, but even at full price they're a great deal. Great customer service too from what I've read, although I've never needed it.

[@Enzo575]

4:45 the sound of eTap 🥰 Great edit there by the production team

[@osterlitz1]

Good information. I would like to see a video wher you just change the tires/tubes using the same wheels. One variable instead of two. Thanks for the informative videos.

[@m4rcel022]

Could you do the opposite video like good tubes and tires on the aluminium wheels and bad tires on the carbon wheels ?

[@Lacking_something]

I'd like to see a comparison in windy conditions to see how much time is lost correcting wobble on very windy days. Many of us will need a set of wheels for all conditions ... and deep section wheels are often unrideable on windy days.

[@pretzelhunt]

it's interesting seeing where, in Montana, we get our names like Spanish Lakes and Spanish Peaks from. It looks just like it! Being that, placebo might play the heavier role in the preference-- next time try blind tests (masking over labels, phantom wheel changers), or expensive, well-designed wheels thatre comparable weight (instead of the obvious featherweight choice) to cheapo knockoffs so we actually see why good stuff is worth it.

[@markusseppala6547]

This winter I upgraded from shimano rs100 wheels to 40mm deep fulcrum quattro carbon ones. Almost 500g less can't wait to try them outside.

[@jonk5755]

Your cheap wheels cost more than my bike! Cycling on a pension. I did upgrade from the original wheels but the new ones were only £75 - yes they were an improvement too.

[@GarysDIY70]

great vids as always lads, what i got from this episode is that I ride below average entry level bikes and don't spend half as much on upgrades as the apparent average person does !! but best of all the main point was that those £2K wheels are not worth the price tag, " just get new tyres instead" 😀😀👍

[@gcntech]

Thanks Gary

[@Thomas-fy9yc]

Ditto, tires first. Then best wheels you can afford. Make sure they have decent hubs, aero 35-45, reasonable weight limit for you if you over 180lbs , and overall wheelset weight often follows price at that point.

[@benjaminblack9555]

Love these videos guys!! … but I have to question is 260 watts is an average riders cruising power?? If so I should give up now lol

[@jaimeisreal]

Depends how much you weigh. If you weigh 50 kilos and are pushing 260 watts as your ftp, that's a very competitive 5.2 watts per kilo. But, if you're over 75 kilos, then keep at it. :)

[@andreidanielb]

Raw power is relative in cycling because it doesn.t take in consideration the weight of the riders. Watts per kg is precise.

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

Its not, plain and simple. It's a flex, that's all it is.

[@da14a49]

"Cruising" is what gets me.

[@the318pop]

@@chrisvanbuggenum871I disagree, if you're chucking 2 grand at a wheelset then you better be able to maintain 260 watts (for an average sized male rider) for an hour or else get on the bike more often before chasing marginal gains.

[@allenharmon5544]

260 Watts probably is a good average for a typical cyclist. Even I can do that - for about 3 minutes 😅

[@minwei82]

1min for me

[@franka.gundersen3177]

Only 2000£ for the wheelset 🙄. We'd better change your name to Ollie Gark 🙈

[@debashistalukdar5523]

This video was massively helpful in clearing some dilemma with upgrading to carbon wheels and lesser rolling resistance tyres. Massive thank you.

[@matapalo2050]

The Hubs should make a big difference aswell. I wonder how the test would result if the kept the same rims but different hubs. Still awesome video :)

[@leehitchen5438]

Thats what i was thinking better wheels always have better hubs

[@NiohNiohYT]

Hubs do not make that much of a difference really. As long as its reliable, doesnt need too much servicing and has any reasonable engagement frequency and is not total entry level cheap crap - hubs do not make almost any difference

[@simonguard5087]

I think for most of us that example wheelset upgrade maybe out of reach but I’m using upgraded wheels from Scribe and its made a huge difference at a fraction of the cost so maybe worth considering companies like Scribe & Hunt? Great customer service, warranties and back up too……No I’m not sponsored or working for either!!!

[@djdelprado]

So true, you can really feel the differences of the wheelset. Mine is fulcrum quattro racing, Cnc 50mm and a campagnolo bora wto.. great vid!

[@revisephilosophy]

I understand the desire for cyclists to upgrade, but the constant reinforcement of "if you only spent £2k" things would be so much better is likely to alienate a good many cyclist for who (including me) this is not financially viable. It only serves to act as a deterrent for people to undertake a sport which is increasingly becoming the domain of those with money.

[@stuarthammond2030]

To be fair, this sort of testing and channel in general was never designed for non racing or those who focus on performance. All this is only relevant if you compete. If you don't just ride a bike and enjoy it.

[@revisephilosophy]

@@stuarthammond2030 of course it's not 'only relevant 'to those who want to race. Anyone who would like to improve their performance, either racing or more generally would like to upgrade their bike. The don't watch it and go ride your bike is, unintentionally I presume, patronising. My point is that this kind of content, interesting as it is, rather polarises the cycling community. Describing £500 wheel packages as 'entry level,' would, as comments below mention, be a significant and expensive upgrade for some.

[@JayLato]

I’d be interested in seeing this kind of test on a fixed gear bike, or don’t shift to guarantee the same gearing ratio for both tests. Showing how much more power is needed for the heavier set.

[@janeblogs324]

A power meter would tell you

[@JayLato]

@@janeblogs324 right. With a power meter. Goes without saying.

[@gcntech]

Sounds very interesting Jason!

[@JayLato]

@@gcntech thanks, but use the same tubes and tires to concentrate solely on the wheels. Maybe use cadence as the constant to measure everything off of.

[@JayLato]

Coasting would negatively affect the test so a hill climb would be best. Make Ollie do it, or Hank on Biggie smalls.

[@Malcom2345]

Missed the golden insight, riding with the better tubes / tyre combo on the alloy hoops. Awesome location

[@hosinfai]

is that an Oneplus Nord that Alex's using at 8:39?

[@scottlstone]

£1500 more the Carbon is over the Aluminium according as per GCN costings. It still doesn’t really represent value for money imo compared to the marginal gains (apart from they look cooler) I’d just put a decent set of tyres on my rims.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

The take away for me is: When my tires are worn anyway, I will replace them with something that rolls better. The weight saving is better done on the rider.

[@davidburgess741]

It depends on what you consider better tires. Usually slow tires are more puncture resistant and offer time savings over standing at the roadside.

[@chris1275cc]

That assumes the rider has the extra weight to loose.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@chris1275cc Be assured, he has. Plenty of it.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@davidburgess741 Good point. Maybe the faster tires setup tubeless are the best idea. I have the sealant around from the MTBs anyway.

[@teeambird2079]

Only exception is building muscle. A couple of years ago I was a few kilos lighter but I have more muscle now and less fat and my overall times have got a lot faster despite being heavier.

[@alexk2127]

For most people the savings are not in time but rather in power required to make same time, such as on group rides. Still good to watch these videos.

[@sbsb4995]

Wonderful to see rim brakes bicycles. They are so beautiful ❣️😍

[@rsrnsrwds]

Great video once again....and fantastic scenary as always! Ya'll made several changes there at once there! Yes, tires absolutely do make the largest difference, depending on which ones you are comparing and at correct pressures, of course. Tires easily give you the largest gains for the money (isn't that great!!??).

[@pantani9886]

I upgraded my wheels to Campagnolo Bora Ultra tubulars! I changed the cheap tubulars to top-end Challenge Seta(silk) Italian tubulars, too. Obviously this was not for a cheap bike, but my dream Colnago with full Campagnolo Super Record EPS, etc.

[@mp7986]

Personally i found that buying second hand high profile carbon wheels with the necessary attention to their integrity, is a great way to upgrade the bike without spending a huge quantity of money for brand new wheels, i got a pair of corima 47mm carbon rim brake wheels for just 300 euros and they are like new, although having 5 years of low intensisty usage when i bought them, i am enjoying them so much. And let's be honest, my wilier looks now a lot cooler!

[@CarlosVega-hh9cx]

Hi GNC folks. I'm kind of new in this cycling world. I've been doing it for more than one year and I'm hooked! I want to upgrade now to a carbon wheelset, but I don't have too much budget. I have seen some Chinese brands like Elite and Yoeleo, and I have read some reviews that say they they are actually good for the price. If you'd have to recommend one of this Chinese brands, which one would be? Thanks!

[@kindalost2495]

Don't forget that riding on carbon has lesser weight than what they said cause the wallet is also lighter ;)

[@Pienimusta]

After spending a bike's worth into wheels alone, you can only afford to eat one meal a day. Imagine the weight savings!

[@truthseeker8483]

😀

[@truthseeker8483]

@@Pienimusta 😀

[@Snicker60515]

I like the idea of going faster, but honestly, as fast as those fancy racing tires are, I'd rather have a little more peace of mind while riding knowing that my slower tires aren't always going to have me getting off my bike to fix punctures. As for the wheels, lighter is nicer, but I'd rather upgrade so my bike just looks better and the added benefit of saving a tiny bit of power. I'm gonna upgrade the wheels on my Roubaix Comp, but of course I know the effect on my bike is gonna be more placebo than anything else.

[@Michael-cj9uo]

They knew exactly what they were doing by not testing the wheels with the same tyres and tubes. I reckon about 80% of the speed increase was the tyres and tubes and not the wheels.

[@nagylevi3827]

I think one can have fun with either wheelset and that is the most important thing. One should never be disuaded from buying a road bike just because they can't afford high end wheels. As for tires, they're vital indeed. That said, whenever I buy high end tires, they last me a single season, if that. It's hardly cost effective unless you're actually racing, imo. Speed is certianly fun and having gold "cups" on Strava feels good but I still maintain that one doesn't need to break the bank with high end gear to enjoy a ride. P.S. nothing feels quite as amazing as flying past a gentleman on a high end bike with your entry level clunker.

[@feedbackzaloop]

So, math, ya sain' On the climb time saving is 4,3%, flat - 5,9% (36s over 835s and 13/219 respectively). Assuming that without lightweight and aero advantage climbing woulld be only 4% faster, we can conclude that... here comes the best part Aero advantage is half as significant as advantage in rolling resistance.

[@mvm9407]

I guess I'm a lucky man. I bought my Vision Team 30 wheels for €170 and fitted a pair of Continental Ultra Sport III for €25. That's €195, or £163. I have mostly good things to say about the excellent Team 30. There's only one slight downfall in that they don't seem to provide all the necessary traction when climbing steeper roads; otherwise they are a steal. And they look the part too. They're the kind of wheels that make you realise how much energy you were wasting with your previous wheelset.

[@sportbootjo]

One month ago I bought a Vision Team 35 Comp SL wheelset for 200 € and fitted a pair of Conti GP 5000 laying aroung, will mount the 11-30 Ultegra cassette that came as standard with my Giant TCR. I hope spring arrives soon here in Berlin/Brandenburg so I can made the switch from my winter Mavic Aksium / Conti Grand Prix set up and give the new combo a try on my Canyon 7.0 AL. Wight sould be down roundabout 150-200 gramms in total, I hope for aero advantage that combinate with a lower rolling resistance should help me to burn down fast 2 kg of my winter extra wight ;-)

[@br5380]

On my gravel bike I swapped between the 1600g wheelset c/w 50c Gravelkings (tubeless at 35psi) and a 1900g wheelset with 25c Schwalbe Durano's (tubed at 70psi) for an 18 mile / 1200ft loop. 3 mins slower on the 50c's, but, a higher top speed (bigger gearing) + more comfort + more confidence. It was purely because I've a road & gravel weekend away and wanted to know if it was worth taking both sets of wheels. I'm just taking the Gravelkings.

[@willyfaso8321]

Now another interesting experiment would be tubeless tires vs aerothan/latex vs butile , using the same wheels...

[@galenkehler]

I got a disc wheel and tri-spoke coming for my road bike, looking forward to big gains!

[@Ober1kenobi]

From someone who rides a $1,000, 9.5kg bike, standard Alex Rims and more thorn resistant tyres than speed, nothing feels better than working hard 😂 Nah, but when you chase down a pack of Lycra clad cyclists all on $3,000+ bikes, and overtake them, and you’re wearing jeans and a T-shirt… That’s the feeing right there Your money spent doesn’t matter if I’m just faster. 💁‍♂️ I might not have the best stuff in the world, but I’d race just about anyone (1km Sprints) (excluding a pro Track cyclist). I’ve done some track and those Mfers ain’t playing around

[@D-enson]

I got a pair of ex-display vision team 30 wheels but on a budget tyre ...after watching this, I think they'll definitely be getting an upgrade real soon

[@chrisweidner]

I like how Ollie has recently started saying “I love you! Bye!” At the end of videos

[@honestmcgyver]

I miss the early days of GCN. Just extended adverts nowadays

[@steb4205]

Great video. I thought though that carbon rims and latex tubes are not advised as the heat generated braking on long decent risks the tubes popping? Or have I just had bad advice? Cheers.

[@walshman70]

Love it. Proper testing for the Average Joe! And best of all -- a sensible cost effective suggestion!

[@johnmcgovern5372]

Not sure about the price of the 30's as £500. A quick google search and you can get a pair for £147.

[@jerchhocevar427]

I paid 2,6k euros for brand new Giant TCR with 105 di2. Why a single upgrade such as wheels would cost more than mid range bike is beyond me. Definitely the biggest upgrade one can make is in my opinion the rider itself with biking more and improving form.

[@stevocanuck]

on flats with deep section wheels i've PR'd on some segments without putting any effort in while on shorter wheels on a climbing bike i would have to put in considerable amount of effort. deep wheels help.

[@chapmag6578]

On a 70 km ride, ( 700 m altitude) similar effort as per HRM, I have measured up to 20 mins, or about 13% faster on my bmc Roadmachine with 49 mm Caden wheels vs my Litespeed Tuscany with box section alloy euros. System weight is about the same. The Litespeed running 25 mm conti gp5000’s, the bmc also same tyre but 25 mm front, 28 mm rear. The bmc is a more aero frame, however, I think most of the performance difference is due to the wheels. It doesn’t matter riding by myself, but at 67, riding with younger friends, then it does make a difference. Love the Litespeed , however, the bmc is just a better ride and I find I have to make a very conscious decision now to take the Litespeed out and about

[@WheelersAtLarge]

Interesting video. What about tubeless? What about a lightweight tyre setup on the standard wheels? That would be much more attainable for more people.

[@jessederooij2247]

Thanks guys 👍🏼

[@T59-j7k]

I have the vision on my Cannondale SystemSix and the cross wind is a killer on the wheels by pushing you sideways

[@Tomidsch]

I always think people need to chill with the 'not very scientific' 'so many variables' blah blah blah. Of course there's variables, they're OUTSIDE for one. These guys make great content, within their means, for us to enjoy. I've watched GCN for years and always take things like this with a pinch of salt. Thing is, the fancy wheels will improve your cycling results, it's obvious. They will effect your speed, feel and overall ride - or they wouldn't cost 2 grand or been seen as an 'upgrade'. They're just making fun content in beautiful locations. I have a set of vision team 30's and I thought they looked pro! they make me feel a bit more 'pro' and they make my bike look cooler which makes me ride better and faster! everybody should upgrade within your means. If you like it, and can afford it, just get it. Anything considered an 'upgrade' will enhance your overall experience in my opinion. Even down to carbon spacers on your stem which do nothing but look cooler... "sweet but look at my carbon spacers bro!" will I notice the 10g saving, nope. will it save me 20 seconds going up my local hill down the estate past the chippy, nope. does it make me feel better and take a little more care of my bike, yes! I'm going off on one here... in summary, stop with the yeah but no buts and enjoy. Cheers GCN!

[@dalis994]

A wheelset makes a good bike. I will always remember when I rode years ago my DT Swiss Mon Chasseral (alu version) wheels for the first time. Before those wheels I was using some basic shimano wheels. The difference was enormous.

[@truthseeker8483]

I have some Shimano wheels and found the bearings are set too tight from new....loosening them makes a big difference to rolling resistance.

[@PartisanGamerDE]

Newb question: are there carbon wheels for gravel bikes or are they too prone to damage for gravel rides (I have seen a few videos where they chip or crack and can't be repaired)? Do you even need them on gravel bikes? I plan to buy my first own bike in April - a Canyon GRZL - and to use it mainly on tarmac but want to be able to go off road if I want to and eventually go on longer tours.

[@donwinston]

They can be used without fear of damage.

[@toozydude2]

Have you not seen this? :P kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJfNm5x-fNp7pcU

[@chris1275cc]

Yes carbon gravel (and MTB) wheels exist, I wouldn't say they are any more prone to damage than Alu wheels which can also crack and can't be repaired either. The main issue with carbon is cost, and if the increase in cost will give you any real world benefits, depending on what budget you have for the build you might find you get more bang for your buck from an Alu wheelset on a Gravel build than a carbon set. Just as example: (both sets have the same hubs, spokes, axles etc.) MASON X HUNT 4 SEASON DISC WHEELSET (aluminium) Weight 1588g Cost £329 HUNT 35 CARBON GRAVEL DISC WHEELSET Weight 1548g Cost £799 That's a lot of £ for a 40g saving that could be put to better use and save way more weight elsewhere on the bike, or even go on a second road wheel set. Of course if money is no object then 40g is still 40g. P.s. Because someone will no doubt read this and come screaming "FAKE WHEEL COMPANY" I am neither recommending or discommending HUNT wheels they are just an easy comparison.

[@PartisanGamerDE]

thank you all for your input! much appreciated!

[@markp353]

I wished you had timed the descent free wheeling to provide a complete picture. THis would show not only aero side but also the difference a better quality tyre makes in cornering speed.

[@chrisprice2200]

Sponsors to the show, won’t like this, but can you compare expensive vs cheap, carbon?. So those Vision wheels, vs Hunt, Winspace, Woven, or other similar, less expensive carbon wheels.

[@Aperez78]

I just buy used wheels and save loads of money! Bought my Zipp 30 Aluminum Wheels with little miles for $800 10 Speed Sram Red XG Cassette for $125 and Grand Prix 4 Season tires for $100 Always look out for Offerup or Ebay for good deals :D

[@PinkBunnySlipers]

I would love to seen this video done with one more entry. An aluminum rim with an aero cowling on the rim for example the Bontrager Areolus Comp. As the kind of rim sits in the middle for price.

[@desroin]

So I'm currently running deep section alloy wheels with tubeless tires... carbon rims are on my shopping list for later this year or maybe next year though ^^' It's a great feeling to cut through the wind though, until a heavy side wind hits you and you start praying to stay alive :x

[@david_lim]

It would have been interesting to compare alu wheels with performance tires and tubes VS carbon wheels and entry-level tires and tubes. Nice video!

[@SignorLuigi]

When I saw the title of this video I was praying 🙏🙏🙏 it would compare the performance of the just the wheels. Using different wheels AND different tires AND different tubes made the experiment an uncontrolled one. Makes it impossible to know the answer to the million dollar question (almost literally😆)...is the huge cost of carbon wheels worth it?

[@grahamaustin9085]

I reckon only half the weight saving is from the wheels. The rest is down to the tyres and that Dura Ace cassette. I don't think people "typically" upgrade to a Dura Ace cassette even though it wieghs up to 150g less than 105. For one thing they cost over £100 more.

[@Mike_in_Thailand]

and I don't think a 105 groupset on a Pinarello is representative of an entry level or even mid tier bike as Ollie suggested.

[@grahamaustin9085]

@@Mike_in_Thailand I think the video was made to show the effect of upgrading the wheelset on a bike, any bike. I don’t see how the frame is relevant to a direct comparison between wheels. The wheelset is representative of an entry/midrange bike whether they put it on a Pinarello or a Carrera.

[@tn9274]

can say changing tyre from maxxis detonator to schwalbe pro one or conti 5000gp, surely felt difference. unable to say for wheel as yet had chance to have decent wheel than RS010/custom wheel/superteam deep section.

[@philipjamesparsons]

Tyres are still the best bang for buck upgrade, be it bicycle or car. Wheels for £2000? I'm not convinced they are good value.

[@n22pdf]

Great vid as always guys 😀

[@nyssaalghul1897]

260 watts while climbing is your definition of the average cyclist? I'd have a heart attack maintaining that pace on a climb

[@tom0kiely]

Vision 30 wheelset under £150, pair of good tyres £50, 105 cassette £50 - A total of £250 - I think they quoted £500 so cheaper than stated. On a club group ride I doubt you will notice the extra seconds that much on the carbon setup. if money is tight entry level will do a good job for you.

[@kaitheus6951]

What I would like to see is how far just putting a good set of tires on your old wheels, my seat of the pants/shorts says about half way there.

[@mcdowell061]

A test to find out if upgrading your wheels makes much difference. when they give the results, tell us that the biggest difference made is due to the tyres and tubes used…. Why not keep these constant for both sets of wheels? I dont think Vision wouldnt be too happy with the results. i.e the minimial savings made with a wheel set 4 times the price….

[@aliancemd]

Because it would of showed that swapping wheels does not make a big difference and that's bad for business.

[@daniboi4067]

@@aliancemd it showed a big difference on the flat

[@apair4002]

Actually bearings & tyres make huge different. Parts that contribute friction. Since we can get less expensive lightweight deep section (aero) carbon wheels (around 700usd), then change the bearings to hi-quality bearing from, nsk, ntn, etc that only cost you 20usd/pce & wrap the wheels with GP5000 or equivalent or better and you are ready to race!

[@jevgeniardassov]

Average 260 watt is not a typical enthusiast lets be honest. But… Someone much below avg power will benefit very little from so much spent money…

[@rabomarc]

I once changed stock Bontrager R1 tires that came stock on my Emonda (I still can’t understand how can Trek put such dreadful tires on a not so cheap carbon road bike) to Pirelli P Zero Velo. It was like having a new bike. High end tires are the single best upgrade you can make to your bike. A set of high end tires is about €100. Putting the same amount of money into anything else in your bike won’t make even half the difference.

[@kna7lula]

Good video!! Just a note of caution, as you fitted latex inner tubes into a carbon rim brake wheel. Long descents with lots of breaking may cause the latex tubes to overheat and explodes. Butyl will eventually do the same, but at a later point. I just bought some Hunt 52mm carbon rim brake clinchers and they explicitely worn against using Latex inner tubes.

[@RichardMigneron]

I'm already running 5000 TL in Tubeless (on Giant PR2s, I know basic wheels), I wonder what just a wheel change would make ? And what only 1 wheel would do ? And in that case, is it better to upgrade the front or the rear ?

[@UncleMike6653]

So many variables such as hills vs flat etc, changing front for aero would make more difference but the case could be made as well the back wheel for a better hub. One thing is for certain there would be some small marginal gain. I would guess for a whole wheelset 1 percent or less gain.

[@carstenmijic8778]

Speaking for myself I upgraded stock PR2 wheelset with a durable set of alloy disc wheels from Scribe. Saved well over 700 grams, same GP5000 tyres and the difference is amazing. Noticeably faster. For reasonable money. If you can only update one PR2, do the rear. Massive weight difference.

[@gregmaher6728]

Upgraded to lightweight Schwalbe Pro One tubeless. I feel the improvement already. But what about wind? I struggle with 23mm wheels. Going to 40’s or more? I live in the desert. Our storms are WIND. I think i will stay with 30mm or less when i convert. Ami i right?

[@chrisbender685]

I recently put a set of Hunt 52 Aerodynamicist wheels on my bike, and took them out on a century ride on a windy day (15-20 mph sustained with gusts in the 25-30 range) figuring that by the end I would know how to handle them. For the first half I had to be extra attentive, but I settled in and by the end they felt pretty natural. The only time it felt really sketchy was starting out from a stoplight when I stood to do a short max effort and I got hit broadside with a nasty gust...definitely felt more stable in the saddle when in strong, gusty crosswind.

[@leonardob71]

13 and 36 seconds is a 10 watt saving. Upgrading yourself is much cheaper than 2000 £

[@jeffheck5559]

Good information as always, gentlemen. Swapped the aluminum wheels to carbon on my Domane and never looked back ( I ride with a glasses mirror). Can you correlate your data into how many watts it takes to do the same mph with both wheel sets?

[@matt_m126]

Is there a puncture resistance difference using latex inner tubes? Lots of KZbin channels praise them, but as a long(er) distance rider, puncture protection is more important to me.

[@3d-obsession662]

What kind of impact would those numbers have on fatigue over a 100K ride? How do you quantify the fatigue factor?

[@jakemoore5295]

Keeping it real with the rim brakes 👍 Stop the disc brake mandate !!!

[@luapchichi]

@gcn, you didn't mention the stiffness of the wheel set. That must make a difference too I'd think.

[@RossTheNinja]

Where was this climb?

[@tomahoks]

2700$ for those?! In my dreams only. Thank you.